I'm reminded of a conversation I had on my job some years Go. Those Men knew how I believed, and they spent all morning trying to get a ride out of me. Quoting Scriptures, they didn't understand and their Doctrine. I told someone today,, most Christians can tell you what they be!ieve, but they can't tell you WHY. They'll say, , This is what my Pastor Preaches and He Preaches Truth. Okay,, He just might,, that's good. But why do you believe it? My Father in Law, said so many times. " Don't believe it because I said it, study it, show yourself approved and know if for Yourself. " That's why we have so many People following so much mess today.
But that Crowd was coming at Me with everything but the kitchen sink, with their,, I'm allright, He's allright, She's allright, Everybody is a sinner, We all sin. This thinking, crowd just wants to sins, and they want a clean conscience while they do it.
And finally I said" Look it's around 12:00 ,and I haven't sinner yet. I'm not telling you I want need The Grace of God before the day is over. But I didn't get up this morning to see how much sin I could get by with, I got up trying not to sin.:And then I dropped this Bomb from The Holy Ghost: I said" I guess that's like my Brother in Law, He doesn't go to Church, pay his tithes, he is abusive to His Children. He drinks, smokes, does drugs fights everybody, cuss you out in a heartbeat, beats His Wife, He runs around on Her all the time. You know when He gets to Heaven He won't have any rewards at all will he? "
And they all looked at Me like I was crazy, and I said" What,, He's going ain't He, ain't that what y'all been saying all morning long, He can't never get out. And then I said" Do you see how crazy that sounds? Nobody even responded ,, and The Lord put them all to silence. Listen if the Righteous scarcely be saved, by the skin of our teeth. Where Shall the Sinner appear?
I do agree , No man can pluck me out of God's Hand, You can't, Congress, Armies, Terrorists, non Christians. Nobody can take me out of God, but I can Walk Away. I can take myself out. I love those Bible Verses where it says ( And Jesus, called 12 and anointed them with Power to cast out devil's and to heal all sickness, and then in a side bar it says,,, ( Oh yeah,, every body but Judas Iscariot who by the way was never saved) Let me see,,,. What chapter is that! The book of ,,, uh,,, uh,, . Yeah ,, that's right it doesn't, and why? Glad you asked. Because Judas had the Same Thing, Matthew, Peter, John, etc,, had. He had the Goods, The Power of God Operating in His Life. He's not the The First good man, turned on God, because of The Love of Money. Anybody ever heard of the Doctrine of Baalam? How about King Joash in 2nd Kings chap. 12. The Priests, Ministry would misuse the money coming in. Its not a New Concept, it's as old as man. He coveted That Money. But hey Thank the Lord, Prosperity Preachers died out then,, Right,,, okay,, keep smiling.
The Bible says Jesus gave Judas that first sop. That represented a Guest, or to Honor, respect. Christ was reaching out to Him already. Are that sop and then what, Satan entered into Him. So the Question is how did Satan enter into a Place he already is. If you're at work, home, The Church and Bodily there. How is it possible for you to enter a Place you already are? In this Case, The Spirit of God Departed, left that Temple and then Satan entered in. We know Judas hung himself, and repented and left the money. But Paul says , there are 2 repentances, sorrows. Sorrow of the world, I hate where my life, circumstances are. And Godly Sorrow, Repentance, that says God just forgive me, save me, help me. Acts said Judas died and went to His own place,Hell. He was in , but He got out. He could have found a Alter like Peter did. This Eternal Salvation Doctrine is damning souls Daily
You could quote Scripture, and break them down for hrs. You could theologically determine Actions and Reactions. The Bible talks of Israel doing what, Paul said they Blasphemed The Holy One. All sin can be Forgiven, but that of Blasphemy against The Holy Ghost.
God will forgive me if I break all The Ten Commandments,,,10 times. Where sin did abound,, Grace did much more abound. It overwhelms sins, it leaves it defenseless. It swallows , consumes, defeats it
So if God will forgive me of every sin, I can think of save that of Blasphemy.
Hi K. I understand that Paul's salutation (or, greetings) is found in Romans 1:1-7. What you're referencing ( Romans 15:14 to 16:27) includes Paul's personal messages & finally his benediction; the actual benediction being Romans 16:25-27).
I'm not sure I understand, "our salvation is not a singular event.." When God got a hold of me, It WAS a singular event! He brought me to repentance, He showed me my sin, He showed me the errors of my man-made, superstitious religion - and I believed on Him and in that moment was born from above! In that one moment, God took out my stony heart, and put in me a heart of flesh. My sanctification, your sanctification, the sanctification of every born-again, blood bought believer is a process, it is us 'working out our salvation with fear and trembling', as the Bible says.
But as for salvation, there must be a time when we can point to when God dealt with us, and changed us from within by being born-again by the Spirit of the living God! As for me, it was the best day of my life! Praise Jesus! That was almost 39 years ago, and Jesus is sweeter than ever! :)
Yes, salvation is a singular event, which a believer will never forget in his whole life. We cannot keep getting 'saved', but we can keep getting 'sanctified', i.e. growing in grace, becoming more and more rooted in God's Word and growing in faith. I share these things because I am concerned about you, wanting to be sure that you KNOW you are saved by being born again by believing the gospel of Christ...and then, after that, being changed little by little by the Holy Spirit!
Our salvation is not a singular event or even a sprint but a marathon . " Life isn't about how to survive the storm , but how to dance in the rain " ."The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing"(John Powell) " Real integrity is doing the right thing knowing that nobody is going to know whether you did it or not"(Oprah Winfrey).Pray, read the Bible, do what you can especially by example. One can see what is all over the place in the world ,lead by example. Learn from when you commit a sin , no matter whether it is small or of a larger magnitude, it can & will happen, repent, pray,reach out when tribulations rain down ,reach out to share blessings,we learn by all of these, sometimes others learn. Bible verses shared in comments, I read not only the verse , but the entire chapter many times. God Bless!
Marke, there are a lot of different directions I can go with this, but, I am going to keep this rather short and simple. If predestination was the intended by God, then that would make Him a "respecter of persons" ( Rom. 2:11), which he is not. Christ came to save the entire world from sin ( John 3:17). Jesus even said what whosoever believes on him would be saved ( John 3:15-16). That is anyone. We also see in the Greek that this believe is present and on-going faith. Not a 1x event that secures the believer and preserves them.
When God is speaking about foreknowledge and predestination He is not speaking of individual salvation, but, His plan of salvation. For example, in Romans 9 when talking about Jacob and Esau he is not talking about God loving Jacob the person and hating Esau the person. He is talking about the 2 nations, Israel and the Edomites. He knew from the foundation of the world that there would be a fall and mankind would need a Savior, as he is Omniscient.
So, God does not predestine some to Heaven, while overlooking others so they can go to hell. God hates all sin and wants all to repent and come to His Son for salvation. It is His will that ALL be saved ( 1 Tim. 2:4). However, we must accept receive this gift and allow with Holy Spirit to work in our hearts. remaining faithful is not one trying to "keep themselves saved". It is responding to the gift of the Holy Spirit written on their hearts.
Very well said Doug! Context matters even in the Greek. And I don't think the KJV writers got it wrong when with all the if/then conditional verses. Salvation is contingent on remaining faithful to the end! God has made it clear we have a choice. His spirit is there to guide us and help us grow but the bible doesnt say anything about us never being able to resist it. Matter of fact we warned not to quench it. As Rev. 2: 10 says, be faithful until death and receive the crown of life. Can't be any more clear than that! If salvation was unconditional it we would see it in the bible and dont think I need to go looking in the Greek to see what God is saying in plain English.
You said "Just curious to know if you are faithful to Christ, and if so, what causes you to be faithful?" and the answer is clearly the Holy Spirit. However, we need to look deeper into scripture and what the exact function of the Holy Spirit is and what our obligation is in our relationship with Christ for final salvation.
Before salvation, the Holy Spirit of God works and draws us to the Father and to accept His Son's sacrifice for salvation. However, we have a free will and can resist this. Since it is the will of the Father that all be saved, but know that many won't because they will reject Christ, we must conclude that there is a free choice on the part of the one who the Holy Spirit is working on and drawing to Christ. We even is in John 3:16 "whosoever believeth" is a reference to anyone. It is not the "elect" as John Calvin taught.
We see that once one receives the Holy Spirit they must continue believing. We see in John 3:16 that "believeth" is present continual. If salvation was a 1 time event then "believeth" would be in the "Aorist". Yet, every time we see believeth it's in the continuous tense.
Just as the Holy Spirit draws us to the God, we make the choice to receive it. This is not forced on us. From there, God works in the us to do His will and good pleasure. So, remaining faithful is NOT a "work" but a response to the grace of God working in our hearts. However, scripture is clear that we must endure in faith to receive the inheritance of eternal life. Notice John 10:29 says "they", not "he". This is a blessing for believers as a whole. The individual still has to endure in in the Christ's body.
John 15 illustrates what I'm talking about. V. 5 says if a man abide not (aorist) he is cut off. It's the exact moment of leaving the protective hand of God ( John 10:29) he is cut off. However the one that abideth (present continual) remains in Christ and in the Father ( 1 Jn 2:24-25).
I agree with you that a believer has an obligation to remain faithful to the Lord. In fact, that's what the Lord expects from us, faithfulness. He is faithful to us and He expects the same in return. But what is it that causes a believer to remain faithful? Is it our flesh, our human effort? Or is it the Spirit of Christ dwelling in a believer that causes them to remain faithful?
Just curious to know if you are faithful to Christ, and if so, what causes you to be faithful?
I do not generally judge a person's true spiritual condition, especially early in their profession. I did not have assurance I was really saved for several years after I got saved. I encourage new believers to follow on to grow in Christ and to give diligence to make their calling and election sure by continually taking heed to God's word.
Allow me to use the parable of the sower in Matt 13 to answer your question. The three types of hearers who did not get saved never showed signs of a new life in Christ like the good hearer did. The fake Christians did not bring forth good fruit to perfection and the fake Christians did not come unto a good understanding of God's word like the good hearer did.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
I noticed you distinguish between real and fake Christians. What is your definition of a real Christian?
If non-believer attends church tomorrow and responds to an altar call professesing faith in Jesus do you consider that person a real Christian or is there a particular test that determines which they are?
Cod chose Christians in Christ before they were born but His selection was based upon His foreknowledge, not according to some plan He had that did not involve the response of the sinner to the preaching of the Gospel. We have been chosen in Christ since the beginning if we are saved. If it were possible for Christians to lose their salvation it nevertheless remains impossible for God to have chosen them in Christ from the beginning.
Erich did an excellent job using scripture to interpret scripture. However, you appear to just be saying you're right, but there's still no biblical support. You're saying that John 10:28 is absolute based on your rational, but, not grounded in scriptures. You're saying everyone just needs to believe John 10:28 is a OSAS verse, even though that is not even what Christ was intending. He was admonishing the Jewish leaders who refused to come to the light. Yet, you did not address the fact the John 10:27 is also ABSOLUTE and only the one following Jesus is safe in the hand of God.
Having to remain in the Son to remain in the Father for eternal life ( 1 John 2:24-25) doesn't negate the promise that all who are being saved are in the Father's hand. You said "We are ALL bought with a price, we are NOT our own...He paid for us with his own blood". If this is the case, why is not everyone just automatically saved? After all, Christ's atoning death was for the whole world. And if one genuinely accepts Christ & then renounces him, why would that person still have eternal life & the one who never accepted Christ lost? After all, they both ended up denying Jesus ( Matt. 10:32-33).
It seems like you're taking bible verses regarding Christ's one time sacrifice for the entire world and trying to apply that to individual believers. Yes, Christ shed his blood once for all, but, that does not mean the believer doesn't have an obligation to remain faithful. Rev. 2:10 says " be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." This is a conditional promise from Christ, so I must conclude that the one who is safe in the hand of God is the one who is remaining faithful to Christ. And the one faithful to the end will receive the end of their faith, eternal life ( Romans 6:22; 1 Peter 1:9)
Christians are assured of salvation & should take great joy in the promise of God to keep them in His hand! However, to inherit eternal life one must endure to the end.
I got saved in 1971 just before I joined the Army. I ended up in a church with one of my supervisors at Ft. Gragg and we became close friends for more than two years. But in 1974 my friend and I had a disagreement over a Bible teaching and he accused me of possibly having committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit for which I would never be forgiven. This bothered me a great deal so I began praying for God to show me what the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost was all about. After seeking the answer for several years I believe the Lord finally answered me. Here is what I believe:
God has promised to enlighten every sinner born into the world ( 1 John 1:9). The Holy Spirit seeks to save every sinner in the world ( 1 Tim 2:4.) The Holy Spirit draws all men to Christ ( John 12:32.) The sin of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is committed by sinners who see the light, are pointed to Jesus by the Holy Spirit, and yet reject the light and speak evil of Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or God. ( John 3:19.) The basis of condemnation to hell is rejecting the light clearly revealed to the unrepentant sinner by the Holy Ghost.
We see that in Romans 1 where sinners who clearly see and understand the light reject the light and are therefore condemned without excuse. The Pharisees who blasphemed the Holy Spirit in Mark 3 knew Jesus was God because Nicodemus said so in John 3:2. We know sinners who have not yet been shown the light by the Holy Spirit can be guilty of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit because of what Jesus said in John 15:22-24.
Thanks for the question. Giving it some thought, I defer to what Jesus said, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, as the unforgivable sin, but it is not clearly defined in His words. But I think that 1 Peter 2:1 speaks of this concerning those who are false teachers among the believers who bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. So, denying the Lord, which is apostasy, is this blasphemy against the testimony of the Holy Spirit concerning Jesus, His Person and work of saving atonement. I may be wrong on this. It may be helpful to read the whole chapter in 1 Peter.
Reply to GiGi. If we can sin a sin after we are saved that will result in God's withdrawal of His promise to never leave us or forsake us what would that sin be?
Glory to our Father, the King of all Gods and to our Lord and saviour Christ Jesus.
To be plucked from the Fathers hand, you must first be in His hand. Many will come and many will see and put their trust in the LORD....this is the born again to see, as told to Nicodemus in John 3. Yet many are called but few are chosen.... This is the born again to be entered in.
For the many drop away, as we are shown they are corrupt soil. The Word came to them, but they did not keep His Word, so they could not deny self, they never saw the cross, nor did they follow. They worked iniquity! They walked in flesh and self.
Flesh is made from dust, and dust is land.....soil.
These were never born again to be entered in,
These never saw the kingdom of GOD,
These were born again to see only and never received the Spirit to walk in.
Is why seek Ye FIRST the kingdom of GOD and his righteousness, IS FIRST!
Always, seeking our Lord is First, in all thy ways, in every thing, at all times, day and night, at morning and noon and evening, without ceasing, from the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same the LORDS name is to be praised.
In 1 Corinthians 13 , this is born again to be entered in.
We know and are known, the glass before us clears , we see clearly through the glass.
And looking unto JESUS, the author and finisher of our faith who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of GOD.
always always always, eyes on JESUS , must look at what you seek to find it .
There are two audiences the Word speaks to,
The born again to see, which is flesh.....and the born again to be entered in, which is Spirit.
When I became a man I put childish things away , The Word of GOD is quick and powerful , the Word of GOD endures forever, the word of GOD does not return to Him void.
For He is great and doeth wondrous things, He is Lord alone, teach us thy ways o LORD
Erich...Thanks for your response...But John 10 : 29 is not a scripture that can be negotiated or twisted ...Its Absolute...Jesus is saying My Father that gave them me is GREATER then all and No man is able to pluck them from my Fathers hands...Period...And about the parable of the sower that good seed is the living WORDS the very seeds of God...Thats y he is saying to whom the WORD came it made them Gods and the scripture cannot be broken Jesus's breath/words...Which means you donot understand the ENORMITY of the seed of the sower...Remember NO MAN can pluck them out of my fathers hands.
.....Thats y we cannot fallaway even if we wanted to...That good seed is the very seed of God..Spirit and Life,..We are ALL bought with a price, we are NOT our own...He paid for us with his own blood...If i be lifted up i will DRAW ALL men unto me when the time comes...( when the book is opened in Gods right hand ) Thats when the Kingdom comes..That woman in birth pains
.....That good seed is his WORD and his Word cannot return unto him void...It has to accomplish what it was sent to do a Birth a baby Christ which is the H.G that Child of Promise...Ya gotta realize that the sower of this good seed is the bridegoom..Thats y he has to KNOW us thats when the good seed is sown in our hearts...Thats hearing his voice ( his seed ) Hebrew 11 : 1 impling Faith and Real Faith is a spritual pregnancy simply b/c its the substance of things hoped for ( a baby Christ )...The H.G. The evidence of things NOT seen...Simply b/c the Child is spirit..Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth me..She brough forth a man child a baby that is gona rule all nations and her Child was caught up to God and to his throne..Remember the babes and sucklings...His children that gonna result from his seed...They don't call him the bridegroom for nothin..ok leme go Gbu Erich
I do not believe Christ saves a sinner but then makes that salvation dependent on that sinner keeping himself pure enough from sin not to warrant being rejected by Jesus in the end.
I believe foolish virgins with no oil in their lamps, professing Christians with no fruit of the Holy Spirit and no works to evidence genuine faith, and foolish hearers who build their houses on the sand are all pictures of sinners who never get saved because God saw they valued other things more than God, like the eager young man in Matthew 19 who valued his money more than salvation.
I do not believe we are running a race with the end goal of obtaining salvation in the end for scoring well on the run. Christians are immediately saved as soon as the Holy Spirit fills them in response to their whole-hearted search for forgiveness and salvation on the basis of Jesus' death on the cross.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Response- Yes, by grace we've been saved (past tense). We're told in the next verse that we're made for the purpose of good works. This gives evidence to genuine change in heart & we need to guard our heart (ref. Heb. 3: 12) That's why we can look to Rom 2:6-7 " Who will render to every man according to his deeds:To them who by patient CONTINUANCE in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:" You can see from this text that salvation starts at the moment we believe on Christ, but, is not a 1x event. It is a lifelong walk. (Reference Rom. 6: 16 & Gal. 6: 7-9)
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Response- John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, I know them and they FOLLOW me (present continuous tense). Those who actively follow Jesus will inherit eternal life. John 10:28 is such a blessing to know that no one can take me out of the love of Christ, but, even as Jude warns we are to keep ourselves in the love of Christ.
Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are par takers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Response- Heb. 12:8 teaches how God corrects His children with the objective of bringing the backsliding back on the strait & narrow. However, we still have a free will and need to come back on our own. Ref. James 5:19-20; 2 Chron. 15: 2)
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Response- 1 Cor. 5:5 is talking about casting a sinner out of the church, as they could bring grave sin, hence a little leaven leaven the lump. Not a OSAS verse. See 1 Cor. 10: 7-12; 1 Cor. 15: 1-2
We are saved, are being saved, and will be saved it we endure to the end in Christ
So has God preselected the ones who are to be saved through Christ? Then, what does our faith in Christ Jesus do for us?
This, as I understand, is one of the main differences between Baptist and Presbyterian beliefs.
But that Crowd was coming at Me with everything but the kitchen sink, with their,, I'm allright, He's allright, She's allright, Everybody is a sinner, We all sin. This thinking, crowd just wants to sins, and they want a clean conscience while they do it.
And finally I said" Look it's around 12:00 ,and I haven't sinner yet. I'm not telling you I want need The Grace of God before the day is over. But I didn't get up this morning to see how much sin I could get by with, I got up trying not to sin.:And then I dropped this Bomb from The Holy Ghost: I said" I guess that's like my Brother in Law, He doesn't go to Church, pay his tithes, he is abusive to His Children. He drinks, smokes, does drugs fights everybody, cuss you out in a heartbeat, beats His Wife, He runs around on Her all the time. You know when He gets to Heaven He won't have any rewards at all will he? "
And they all looked at Me like I was crazy, and I said" What,, He's going ain't He, ain't that what y'all been saying all morning long, He can't never get out. And then I said" Do you see how crazy that sounds? Nobody even responded ,, and The Lord put them all to silence. Listen if the Righteous scarcely be saved, by the skin of our teeth. Where Shall the Sinner appear?
Mikey Out. Biscoe House of Mercy
The Bible says Jesus gave Judas that first sop. That represented a Guest, or to Honor, respect. Christ was reaching out to Him already. Are that sop and then what, Satan entered into Him. So the Question is how did Satan enter into a Place he already is. If you're at work, home, The Church and Bodily there. How is it possible for you to enter a Place you already are? In this Case, The Spirit of God Departed, left that Temple and then Satan entered in. We know Judas hung himself, and repented and left the money. But Paul says , there are 2 repentances, sorrows. Sorrow of the world, I hate where my life, circumstances are. And Godly Sorrow, Repentance, that says God just forgive me, save me, help me. Acts said Judas died and went to His own place,Hell. He was in , but He got out. He could have found a Alter like Peter did. This Eternal Salvation Doctrine is damning souls Daily
Mikey Out.
Biscoe House of Mercy
God will forgive me if I break all The Ten Commandments,,,10 times. Where sin did abound,, Grace did much more abound. It overwhelms sins, it leaves it defenseless. It swallows , consumes, defeats it
So if God will forgive me of every sin, I can think of save that of Blasphemy.
Then how can I explain what Blasphemy truly is?
Blasphemy is Rejecting God.
Mikey Out. Biscoe House of Mercy
I'm not sure I understand, "our salvation is not a singular event.." When God got a hold of me, It WAS a singular event! He brought me to repentance, He showed me my sin, He showed me the errors of my man-made, superstitious religion - and I believed on Him and in that moment was born from above! In that one moment, God took out my stony heart, and put in me a heart of flesh. My sanctification, your sanctification, the sanctification of every born-again, blood bought believer is a process, it is us 'working out our salvation with fear and trembling', as the Bible says.
But as for salvation, there must be a time when we can point to when God dealt with us, and changed us from within by being born-again by the Spirit of the living God! As for me, it was the best day of my life! Praise Jesus! That was almost 39 years ago, and Jesus is sweeter than ever! :)
Yes, salvation is a singular event, which a believer will never forget in his whole life. We cannot keep getting 'saved', but we can keep getting 'sanctified', i.e. growing in grace, becoming more and more rooted in God's Word and growing in faith. I share these things because I am concerned about you, wanting to be sure that you KNOW you are saved by being born again by believing the gospel of Christ...and then, after that, being changed little by little by the Holy Spirit!
Grace to you!
-Kathy-
6. Paul's Salutation (5:14-16:27) Should This Be (:15:14-16:27)
When God is speaking about foreknowledge and predestination He is not speaking of individual salvation, but, His plan of salvation. For example, in Romans 9 when talking about Jacob and Esau he is not talking about God loving Jacob the person and hating Esau the person. He is talking about the 2 nations, Israel and the Edomites. He knew from the foundation of the world that there would be a fall and mankind would need a Savior, as he is Omniscient.
So, God does not predestine some to Heaven, while overlooking others so they can go to hell. God hates all sin and wants all to repent and come to His Son for salvation. It is His will that ALL be saved ( 1 Tim. 2:4). However, we must accept receive this gift and allow with Holy Spirit to work in our hearts. remaining faithful is not one trying to "keep themselves saved". It is responding to the gift of the Holy Spirit written on their hearts.
Before salvation, the Holy Spirit of God works and draws us to the Father and to accept His Son's sacrifice for salvation. However, we have a free will and can resist this. Since it is the will of the Father that all be saved, but know that many won't because they will reject Christ, we must conclude that there is a free choice on the part of the one who the Holy Spirit is working on and drawing to Christ. We even is in John 3:16 "whosoever believeth" is a reference to anyone. It is not the "elect" as John Calvin taught.
We see that once one receives the Holy Spirit they must continue believing. We see in John 3:16 that "believeth" is present continual. If salvation was a 1 time event then "believeth" would be in the "Aorist". Yet, every time we see believeth it's in the continuous tense.
Just as the Holy Spirit draws us to the God, we make the choice to receive it. This is not forced on us. From there, God works in the us to do His will and good pleasure. So, remaining faithful is NOT a "work" but a response to the grace of God working in our hearts. However, scripture is clear that we must endure in faith to receive the inheritance of eternal life. Notice John 10:29 says "they", not "he". This is a blessing for believers as a whole. The individual still has to endure in in the Christ's body.
John 15 illustrates what I'm talking about. V. 5 says if a man abide not (aorist) he is cut off. It's the exact moment of leaving the protective hand of God ( John 10:29) he is cut off. However the one that abideth (present continual) remains in Christ and in the Father ( 1 Jn 2:24-25).
I agree with you that a believer has an obligation to remain faithful to the Lord. In fact, that's what the Lord expects from us, faithfulness. He is faithful to us and He expects the same in return. But what is it that causes a believer to remain faithful? Is it our flesh, our human effort? Or is it the Spirit of Christ dwelling in a believer that causes them to remain faithful?
Just curious to know if you are faithful to Christ, and if so, what causes you to be faithful?
I do not generally judge a person's true spiritual condition, especially early in their profession. I did not have assurance I was really saved for several years after I got saved. I encourage new believers to follow on to grow in Christ and to give diligence to make their calling and election sure by continually taking heed to God's word.
Your response suggests that you can determine a Christian by fruit, but a new Christian has no fruit track record yet.
So, if someone hears the gospel for the first time tomorrow and decides to be a Christian, at that time is he a 'real Christian' to you?
Allow me to use the parable of the sower in Matt 13 to answer your question. The three types of hearers who did not get saved never showed signs of a new life in Christ like the good hearer did. The fake Christians did not bring forth good fruit to perfection and the fake Christians did not come unto a good understanding of God's word like the good hearer did.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
I noticed you distinguish between real and fake Christians. What is your definition of a real Christian?
If non-believer attends church tomorrow and responds to an altar call professesing faith in Jesus do you consider that person a real Christian or is there a particular test that determines which they are?
God bless.
Cod chose Christians in Christ before they were born but His selection was based upon His foreknowledge, not according to some plan He had that did not involve the response of the sinner to the preaching of the Gospel. We have been chosen in Christ since the beginning if we are saved. If it were possible for Christians to lose their salvation it nevertheless remains impossible for God to have chosen them in Christ from the beginning.
Having to remain in the Son to remain in the Father for eternal life ( 1 John 2:24-25) doesn't negate the promise that all who are being saved are in the Father's hand. You said "We are ALL bought with a price, we are NOT our own...He paid for us with his own blood". If this is the case, why is not everyone just automatically saved? After all, Christ's atoning death was for the whole world. And if one genuinely accepts Christ & then renounces him, why would that person still have eternal life & the one who never accepted Christ lost? After all, they both ended up denying Jesus ( Matt. 10:32-33).
It seems like you're taking bible verses regarding Christ's one time sacrifice for the entire world and trying to apply that to individual believers. Yes, Christ shed his blood once for all, but, that does not mean the believer doesn't have an obligation to remain faithful. Rev. 2:10 says " be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." This is a conditional promise from Christ, so I must conclude that the one who is safe in the hand of God is the one who is remaining faithful to Christ. And the one faithful to the end will receive the end of their faith, eternal life ( Romans 6:22; 1 Peter 1:9)
Christians are assured of salvation & should take great joy in the promise of God to keep them in His hand! However, to inherit eternal life one must endure to the end.
I got saved in 1971 just before I joined the Army. I ended up in a church with one of my supervisors at Ft. Gragg and we became close friends for more than two years. But in 1974 my friend and I had a disagreement over a Bible teaching and he accused me of possibly having committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit for which I would never be forgiven. This bothered me a great deal so I began praying for God to show me what the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost was all about. After seeking the answer for several years I believe the Lord finally answered me. Here is what I believe:
God has promised to enlighten every sinner born into the world ( 1 John 1:9). The Holy Spirit seeks to save every sinner in the world ( 1 Tim 2:4.) The Holy Spirit draws all men to Christ ( John 12:32.) The sin of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is committed by sinners who see the light, are pointed to Jesus by the Holy Spirit, and yet reject the light and speak evil of Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or God. ( John 3:19.) The basis of condemnation to hell is rejecting the light clearly revealed to the unrepentant sinner by the Holy Ghost.
We see that in Romans 1 where sinners who clearly see and understand the light reject the light and are therefore condemned without excuse. The Pharisees who blasphemed the Holy Spirit in Mark 3 knew Jesus was God because Nicodemus said so in John 3:2. We know sinners who have not yet been shown the light by the Holy Spirit can be guilty of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit because of what Jesus said in John 15:22-24.
Thanks for the question. Giving it some thought, I defer to what Jesus said, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, as the unforgivable sin, but it is not clearly defined in His words. But I think that 1 Peter 2:1 speaks of this concerning those who are false teachers among the believers who bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. So, denying the Lord, which is apostasy, is this blasphemy against the testimony of the Holy Spirit concerning Jesus, His Person and work of saving atonement. I may be wrong on this. It may be helpful to read the whole chapter in 1 Peter.
We are saved, are being saved, and will be saved if we endure until the end in Christ.
To be plucked from the Fathers hand, you must first be in His hand. Many will come and many will see and put their trust in the LORD....this is the born again to see, as told to Nicodemus in John 3. Yet many are called but few are chosen.... This is the born again to be entered in.
For the many drop away, as we are shown they are corrupt soil. The Word came to them, but they did not keep His Word, so they could not deny self, they never saw the cross, nor did they follow. They worked iniquity! They walked in flesh and self.
Flesh is made from dust, and dust is land.....soil.
These were never born again to be entered in,
These never saw the kingdom of GOD,
These were born again to see only and never received the Spirit to walk in.
Is why seek Ye FIRST the kingdom of GOD and his righteousness, IS FIRST!
Always, seeking our Lord is First, in all thy ways, in every thing, at all times, day and night, at morning and noon and evening, without ceasing, from the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same the LORDS name is to be praised.
In 1 Corinthians 13 , this is born again to be entered in.
We know and are known, the glass before us clears , we see clearly through the glass.
And looking unto JESUS, the author and finisher of our faith who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of GOD.
always always always, eyes on JESUS , must look at what you seek to find it .
There are two audiences the Word speaks to,
The born again to see, which is flesh.....and the born again to be entered in, which is Spirit.
When I became a man I put childish things away , The Word of GOD is quick and powerful , the Word of GOD endures forever, the word of GOD does not return to Him void.
For He is great and doeth wondrous things, He is Lord alone, teach us thy ways o LORD
.....Thats y we cannot fallaway even if we wanted to...That good seed is the very seed of God..Spirit and Life,..We are ALL bought with a price, we are NOT our own...He paid for us with his own blood...If i be lifted up i will DRAW ALL men unto me when the time comes...( when the book is opened in Gods right hand ) Thats when the Kingdom comes..That woman in birth pains
.....That good seed is his WORD and his Word cannot return unto him void...It has to accomplish what it was sent to do a Birth a baby Christ which is the H.G that Child of Promise...Ya gotta realize that the sower of this good seed is the bridegoom..Thats y he has to KNOW us thats when the good seed is sown in our hearts...Thats hearing his voice ( his seed ) Hebrew 11 : 1 impling Faith and Real Faith is a spritual pregnancy simply b/c its the substance of things hoped for ( a baby Christ )...The H.G. The evidence of things NOT seen...Simply b/c the Child is spirit..Whosoever receiveth one such child in my name receiveth me..She brough forth a man child a baby that is gona rule all nations and her Child was caught up to God and to his throne..Remember the babes and sucklings...His children that gonna result from his seed...They don't call him the bridegroom for nothin..ok leme go Gbu Erich
I believe foolish virgins with no oil in their lamps, professing Christians with no fruit of the Holy Spirit and no works to evidence genuine faith, and foolish hearers who build their houses on the sand are all pictures of sinners who never get saved because God saw they valued other things more than God, like the eager young man in Matthew 19 who valued his money more than salvation.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Response- Yes, by grace we've been saved (past tense). We're told in the next verse that we're made for the purpose of good works. This gives evidence to genuine change in heart & we need to guard our heart (ref. Heb. 3: 12) That's why we can look to Rom 2:6-7 " Who will render to every man according to his deeds:To them who by patient CONTINUANCE in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:" You can see from this text that salvation starts at the moment we believe on Christ, but, is not a 1x event. It is a lifelong walk. (Reference Rom. 6: 16 & Gal. 6: 7-9)
John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Response- John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, I know them and they FOLLOW me (present continuous tense). Those who actively follow Jesus will inherit eternal life. John 10:28 is such a blessing to know that no one can take me out of the love of Christ, but, even as Jude warns we are to keep ourselves in the love of Christ.
Hebrews 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are par takers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Response- Heb. 12:8 teaches how God corrects His children with the objective of bringing the backsliding back on the strait & narrow. However, we still have a free will and need to come back on our own. Ref. James 5:19-20; 2 Chron. 15: 2)
1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Response- 1 Cor. 5:5 is talking about casting a sinner out of the church, as they could bring grave sin, hence a little leaven leaven the lump. Not a OSAS verse. See 1 Cor. 10: 7-12; 1 Cor. 15: 1-2
We are saved, are being saved, and will be saved it we endure to the end in Christ