Bill; It seems to me that you are trying to be confrontational, and wrenching on a presumed meaning in my words. All I say is what the Lord and His servants have written to us, about the tree being known by its fruit, and doing what Jesus has commanded us to do if we love Him. 2 Peter 1 explains very well how we are to DO these things; both for being able to walk and not stumble and to be saved!
A disciple, Not we.Christians appear before the judgement seat of Christ, not the great white throne,as do unbelievers."being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,hath he quickened together with him,having forgiven you all trespasses.Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way,nailing it to his cross".Saved!
Hi Bill; Additionally, when the Lord shall sit on the throne of His Glory, and all Nations shall be gathered before Him; He will separate us one from another, completely based on our works, and whether we were good and kind toward even the little ones who belong to Jesus! Ignorance can never be an excuse, although it will be claimed by many; for the Lord knows the truth why we do good or don't!
Bill (cont.); and even the verse you reference ( John 8:36) has to do with "Continuing in Jesus' Word in order to be His disciples indeed." You see that the ones He was talking to were some Jews that believed on Him; but eventually drew a line where they would go no farther. They made themselves of the devil by choosing to be hostile and unbelieving, after having once believed. This is very common!
Bill; you asked, "Are you saying that God chooses you for salvation and you can thwart his will and be lost?" Yes, I believe so! Why else would He warn us so much about being doers of the things He says, and of the need to take heed that no one mislead us? As long as we continue faithful with Him, He withholds nothing that we need to grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus and endure unto the end.
A disciple, Are you saying that God chooses you for salvation and you can thwart his will and be lost?Can you answer this question with a yes or no?"If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."John8:36
Bill; Didn't the LORD Jesus die on the cross for our sins? Doesn't the Father command us to repent and be a new kind? Doesn't He expect us to obey? Isn't that why we are converted, to cease to do evil and from henceforth do right and not be as the hypocrites? Either we have a work of grace wrought in our hearts or we don't; and the day will declare it whether it is reflected by our manner of life.
A disciple, Your emphasis on works is in agreement with the world view of "good enough to go to heaven". Works are easily and often feigned,right?So you are saying that God chooses you for salvation and you can thwart his will and be lost?That's not saved by grace or the sovereign will of God.
So why would Jesus have you armed, rather than clothed?
Bill; you wrote: "To what end did Jesus make a whip?" I'd say, To give them a stinging rebuke they won't soon forget! I've always loved that part! There are a number of great examples of the Lord showing us how normal things; which some would angrily'protest, that they are not fitting for a Christian to feel or do; would indeed be perfectly appropriate. "Child education starts from the bottom up!"
Bill; No! Its not a mystery to me about "buying a sword;" and its not a mystery who is going to be saved and who will be rejected and lost. God wishes all men to be saved, and sends the Word of the Glad Tidings and His instructions unto reconciliation to ALL. But NOT all want Him! Even among the called and chosen; MANY can only make excuses why everything else is more important and will NOT ENTER!
Bill (cont.) Just adding; Do you remember the story of when Jesus was invited to lunch with one of the Pharisees, and a woman came in and washed His feet with tears? Jesus told him that he who loves much is forgiven much, and who is forgiven little loves little. The woman's perfect heart brought her to Jesus' feet with repentance and love, and the Lord accepted her; but not the cramped Pharisee!
A disciple, So is the need for a sword a mystery to you? To what end did Jesus make a whip?People are "dead in trespasses and sin".Sinners are quickened by the Holy Spirit, and then can hear, as the born again saved for all eternity.God is sovereign in saving whom he pleases. When Jesus said "It is finished", all that was needed to save was done by him.We DO in return for what he has DONE for us.
Bill (cont.); The blood of Jesus and His Work on the cross is our only plea, as it is our God appointed Redemption. The perfect however is not as men estimate perfection, but a perfect heart, like David; which allows for our weakened and humiliated state, and forgives the ignorance. The Pharisees stupidly set themselves after a kind of outward religious perfection, and missed that of the heart.
Bill; Amen Brother; all true! People are lost because of sin and an alienated mind; and we are saved by the grace of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ through faith, that "proves" worthy through trial and endurance. "Not everyone who says to Him, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; BUT he that does the will of my Father." We don't want to be self deceived "hearers only" but DOERS!
A disciple, "be perfect as our heavenly Father", we failed perfection in Adam,as creatures.Can't deny Jesus said," buy a sword", but for what purpose? Are people lost because they are not good enough, or saved because they are good enough?In the Lord I put my trust. He saved me,not I myself. The death of Jesus for me is my only plea.What I know of him is only by his grace, through his word.
Mild Bill; you wrote, "Jesus speaks of a future time, when he would have us armed, rather than clothed.." That is not true! What we ARE to do, is to patiently bear up under opposition and adversity, and be perfect as our heavenly Father; to offer the other cheek and submit for Jesus' sake. The command to love our enemies and do them good is not on the condition of their being good and kind to us.
Then said he(Lord Jesus) unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.Unlike the bow, the sword is up close and personal, an arms length away, imminent combat.Jesus speaks of a future time, when he would have us armed, rather than clothed.Resisting evil can get physical,as with money changers.
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?" Where does it say that Jesus commands us to pick up our weapons and fight? He never does! His commandment is to "Turn the other cheek!" Most everyone knows this and can cynically quote it, while they are actually murmuring and speaking evil of that person who injures or insults them. But for us it is our Constitution, and our Duty.
To Sue M. - Jn. 3:16; "....... that whosoever BELIEVETH in Him ....... "; Jn. 14:15; If we believe in Him (to 'know' there is a God is not the same as believing in Him); to believe in Him is to obey His commandments; if we obey - then we love Him. Along with Hector D. I hope this helps you.
God does not hate like man hates. God's hatred is toward sin, He will separate the sinner from Himself. This is not contradictory to God's love, for in his love for sinners God has made it possible for sin to be forgiven so that all can be reconciled to God. John 3:1-21, God talks about the New Birth! God is not willing that any should parish but that all should come to repentance. ( 2 Peter 3:9)
There is much preaching about Loving; as God is Love. But even Jesus overturned the money changers' tables in anger. Be angry, and sin not. In Genesis we read God hated Essau. It is my belief that we are to ask God's discernment in every situation to respond correctly, knowing God is omnipotent, and perfect in all His ways. The Potter shows mercy, but not on all. In Christ/Eva
The Psalmist of chapter 11 has one understanding of God, Chirst in the gospel of John, has another. Yet both are included in the same Bible, the same religion, the same church. And so it is with Christians.
I would like to open a discussion about verse 5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
My question is, how do we reconcile this verse with John 3:16? Thanks for your insights.
To Goodness - Why do bad things happen to good people? As far as living in this world is concerned, before we are with Him in Heaven - everybody has to experience the good and bad; for the Christian the bad helps us grow in Him; for the bad it (hopefully) helps them to see Him; Matt. 5:45; Eccl.2:14,15; 8:14; 9:11. These verses will help you understand.
So why would Jesus have you armed, rather than clothed?
My question is, how do we reconcile this verse with John 3:16? Thanks for your insights.