2 Esdras 15:46-49 and Revelation 17: 5 are identical descriptions of Rome.
Asia in this Context is Asian Minor which at the time of writing was held by Rome and is also identified as Asia in Revelation 1:4
Mystery Babylon is the Roman Empire, 2 Esdras above is speaking about Constantinople which the Ottoman Turks vanquished. The Roman Empire at the time contained the cities of the 7 churches in Revelation 1 and 2. Those 7 churches were cities within the Roman Empire at the time of writing.
Just as the Bride of Christ as a woman is a church, so too is the Whore and the Harlot daughters. The Bride of Christ is the true Church. The Whore and the Harlot daughters are false churches. They take the name of Christ, but they don't follow the Commandments of God. Specifically, they reject the 4th Commandment and in doing so they break all of the others too.
Luke 6:46
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
Matthew 15:9
"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
Mark 7:8
"For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do."
Isaiah 4:1
And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.
These Harlots and the Whore wear polluted Spiritual clothing. They eat Spiritually polluted bread. (They taint and serve polluted teaching as if it were the word of God) They claim to be Christian, but are Christian in name only, because they reject God's Commandments and teach doctrine of men in it's place. Those 7 women are the churches in Revelation 1 and 2. That man is Jesus Christ. The Whore is the Roman Catholic Church and the Harlot daughters are the churches that broke away, IE. Protestant, Baptist, etc... All keep Sunday rather than Saturday as Commanded and practice pagan rites/idolatry.
It is my belief that the 3 heads of the Eagle in 2 Esdras 11 are the three primary religious factions that were prominent at the time. In my opening comment about Mystery Babylon being Rome I didn't expand on this.
Islam, Christianity and Judaism were these three factions. History shows that they all played a major role in Asia Minor, the Levant and Israel. The entire region was under the rule of these three throughout history and can be confirmed through the study of such. The center head of the Eagle I believe is Israel as indicated by the scattering of the people at the destruction of the 2nd temple and the other empires conquering of it. The head on the right consumes the head on the left, so I think this was the Ottoman Empire overtaking the Byzantine Empire. In order of context of history this melds well, but without going back and looking and studying more and going through what I already have researched again I am going to be moderate in my solidification of my stance on this.
Notably also, Esdras is told that the vision of the Eagle is the same as the vision given to the prophet Daniel.
The feathers and wings are in fact rulers of the monarchies, republic's and empires of these three religious factions or of the center head or a combination of the three. In any case, most of what pertains to this vision has already taken place, up until the lion roars. Then we have a fourth beast mentioned, which I believe it the RCC, Mystery Babylon which is the remaining body of the eagle. I do have the identifying characteristics of the historical leaders recorded in a saved file with their counterpart wings and feather, that precisely align with the narrative. I may share those, but the content of the information dealing with that is very large and the allowed room for sharing things on here in the text box is extremely small, so I would need to condense my research first. Also links are not allowed so that presents a challenge to citing my sources and evidence.
In your presentation Woe, you mentioned, "The Whore and the Harlot daughters are false churches. They take the name of Christ, but they don't follow the Commandments of God. Specifically, they reject the 4th Commandment and in doing so they break all of the others too."
The Ten Commandments, and most certainly the 4th, has nothing to do with the Church of Christ Jesus. Please consider Exodus 31:12-18. In that passage, there are three distinct occasions where the children of Israel are spoken of & that they alone were to keep the Sabbath Day holy. It was never given to the Gentiles, & certainly not to Christ's Church. True, there were imposter Churches around then as also today, but the marks of their falsehood are not seen in the keeping of the Ten Commandments, rather in the preaching of a defective Gospel and their incorrect understanding and handling of the Word of God.
Where the Decalogue was given to Israel to obey, or where even our Lord told the people to "keep the commandments" (e.g. Matthew 19:17), all was done because the Law was still in force & the New Covenant in Christ's Blood was not ushered in as yet. Once the price for sin was paid & accepted by the Father, only those believing in Jesus to save them from the awful penalty for their sin, could be redeemed, saved, given new birth by the Holy Spirit, and come under the New Covenant administered by the Spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:6-11. The Old has been abolished, which is the Law (contained) in ordinances (Gk. dogmasim) ( Ephesians 2:14-16).
So lets break this down for you to see; God's Ten Commandments are not the laws that Jesus did away with.
When we read below, we are shown that the Covenant law is distinct and separate from the sin laws which came 430 years later as clearly shown in verse 17. Those later additions were sacrificial laws and days set up to be observed for sin offering and the days created pertaining to them, due to sin. They were not given by God, but added because of men's transgression. They were added by men, not God.
Galatians 3
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
The law questioned in the incipient part of verse 19, specifically applies to this part of verse 17; "the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after".
The law questioned in verse 19 above, doesn't apply to the Ten Commandments, which is discussed in the first part of verse 17.
With some reading comprehension; There are in fact two distinct laws being discussed in verse 17. The first is The Covenant Law of God The Ten Commandments. The second discussed is; what was added 430 years later due to sin of men, and added by men.
Galatians tells us it is those later additions that were to be removed by Jesus, but they would remain until Jesus did away with them, however, Jesus, Himself, tells us that God's Covenant law will remain in effect until the heaven and earth are removed.
Thank you Woe for your detailed response. If I might begin at the start of your comment. You referred to Galatians chapter 3 & Exodus 34:28. The Covenant that God made with Abraham (otherwise called the Abrahamic Covenant) had nothing to do with the Ten Commandments ( Ex 34:28 doesn't indicate that at all). The Abrahamic Covenant is found in various portions in Genesis 12:1-3; Genesis 15:18-21; Genesis 17:1-22; Genesis 22:16-18. The Ten Commandments were never given to Abraham; Abraham was commended for his faith & obedience, outside of any Law. He only received the Promise.
Galatians 3:17-19 which you quoted. Verse 17 particularly: "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect". The comparison here is made to the promise of God to Abraham (the Covenant), that the Ten Commandments were given 430 years after God's Promises to Abraham. So, there aren't two Laws, just one given at Mt. Sinai - what was given to Abraham wasn't the Law but the inheritance by Promise. (cont'd on Page 2)
Also, you are incorrect about when God instituted the Sabbath rest or any of the other in the Ten. They were given at Creation. Abraham was selected by God, because he already was abiding by them.
We are told in Genesis 26:5 below that Abraham did in fact keep the Commandments of God. The laws for sin were not part of that Covenant and were added later after Israel came out of Egypt. It is those laws that Jesus came to do away with, not God's laws Abraham already was keeping, established by God at Creation.
Genesis 26
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. 6 And Isaac dwelt in Gerar:
God confirmed a Covenant with Abraham, but the same Covenant made with Abraham was then made with all men, because God found all men to be in unbelief. The Jews thought they were heirs to the promise, but scripture says it was to the One Seed, Jesus. that the promise was made in Galatians 3.
You can't claim to have the faith of Jesus if you also do not walk as He walks. Jesus tells us to take up our own cross and follow after Him. He was our example. Jesus spoke about our fruit and told us a good tree bears good fruit. Hence the fruit of the Spirit is to keep God's eternal law which brings no condemnation, but avoid works of the flesh which do.
Galatians 5
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Thanks for your further comments Woe. It is correct that "Abraham obeyed my (God's) voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws" ( Genesis 26:5). But when did all these commandments, statutes & laws given to Abraham? If God covenanted with Abraham concerning blessing, inheritance, & multiplication of his seed (as per the Genesis references I gave previously), where in Scripture do we find that these Laws (particularly the Decalogue) was ever given to Abraham? Could these laws, commandments & statutes be different to what was given at Mt. Sinai, regulations that pertained specifically to Abraham's life & direction he was to take? Not to say that something of the Mosaic Law would not be included in that giving to Abraham, but we are not told specifically what was given, therefore we are not at liberty to assume or presume (which is a fundamental biblical rule).
No, Jesus doesn't "tell all men to keep God's 10 commandments". He was speaking to the Jews who were under the Law - Gentiles & the Church never received the Law & were never brought under it. Where we find in the NT about believers needing to obey God's Commandments (as in 1 John 2:3, 1 John 5:3), it is spoken as to those not under the Law but under the Law of the Spirit. And the Holy Spirit will certainly bring before us God's Commandments, and many, many more than the few in the Decalogue that pertained only to Israel who had long forgotten the God of Israel when in Egypt ( Exodus 3:13,14). The Ten Commandments were given to a discouraged enslaved people who had lost all knowledge of God & His requirements - given to them to show God's Standard of worship & godly living, but ultimately to reveal to them their sin, their need to trust & hope in the Living God & their need of a Savior.
Concerning a Friday crucifixion or Sunday resurrection, I won't get into that here, except to quote Luke 24:1, "Now upon the first day of the week.." And that is a Sunday, which follows the seventh day of the week, a Saturday/Sabbath.
You did well to quote Galatians 5:18-25: showing that we are not under the Law, which means that we are free from its ultimate purpose: that of revealing human spiritual & mental frailty & resulting condemnation. If we break even one Law, we have broken all & remain condemned ( James 2:10). There was nothing wrong at all with the Law ( Romans 7:12), but its purpose was to lead men to Christ, not to be resurrected again by those now in Christ as some sort of rule book to follow & please God by. The only way to please the LORD is to do His Will, following the dictates of His Holy Spirit He has given us. If we use the Decalogue as some sort of yardstick to measure our spiritual standard & acceptance to God, then we have failed & missed the whole point of Christ's Sacrifice & the great matchless worth of the New Covenant in His Blood. Thank you for your time.
Yes, well I do want to shed light on the false Crucifixion timeline most people buy into.
We have clear evidence in scripture that the women who wanted to attend to Christ's body with spices couldn't, because the Sabbath drew on and Christ was placed in the tomb. Then after the sabbath they went and bought spices, took them and prepared them, which would have taken a great deal of time and then again rested on the Sabbath, Saturday, which began at Sunset on Friday. Why? Because there were two Sabbath in the week Jesus was crucified. Furthermore a biblical day begins at sunset and ends at sunset. You might not want to get into it, but it is an imperative that the crucifixion week is evaluated properly as it dispels the false teaching that Jesus was crucified on a Friday. Not only that, but in Christ's own words, He would be in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights as Jonah was in the belly of the whale. This is a full 72 hours. So Christ was placed in the tomb at sunset on Wednesday, Thursday was the High annual Sabbath of Passover. Friday was preparation for the weekly Sabbath and the weekly Sabbath began at sunset in accordance with scripture that a day begins and ends at sunset. Christ was then Resurrected at sunset on Saturday, just as Sunday began to dawn and the sun began to set. As the sun went down, Mary came to the tomb and found Christ had already risen. It was the earliest she could go after the Sabbath had ended. Christ rose on Saturday as the day came to an end. Christ did NOT rise on Sunday. He was already risen prior to the time Sunday began, which was at sunset of Saturday. Scripture tells us that the disciples were gathered in the room on Sunday for fear of the Jews. They were not meeting or holding a worship service. They were hiding.
Well Woe, we were still dealing with the Decalogue & its applicability to the Church (are we done with that?), so that is why I didn't want to side track towards the dates of the burial & resurrection of Jesus. But since you have brought it up, let's proceed.
I always begin with what we already know (from Scripture), and that is the Day of Christ's Resurrection. Mark 16:1,2,9: "And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils".
In these verses, we read that Jesus was resurrected early on the first day of the week (v9), that the two Marys would have rested on the Sabbath Day & prepared their spices (as you mentioned), and as soon as it was morning (actually, still dark - John 20:1) after the Sabbath, these women came to the sepulchre. Some have swapped the commas here, to read: "Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared". Even if one does that, with the Jewish day reckoned from sundown to sundown, the Sabbath would have ended about eleven hours before, thus confirming that Jesus didn't arise from the dead on Sabbath Day, but on the first day of the week, Sunday. Onto Page 2.
God's Commandments abide forever. So yes we are done looking into that.
Again we look at what Jesus says and may I remind you these are not idle words;
Matthew 5:18, Jesus states, "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
Heaven and earth have not yet passed, so true to word, God's Ten Commandments remain.
If I could first address your last point here ( Matthew 5:18). Do you think that the previous verse (v 17, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil"), has some connection to verse 18? Clearly, Jesus is upholding the Law (i.e. what was given by God, & not those spurious laws the religious leaders imposed upon the people). He also states that the Law will abide forever. And He further states that His Coming to Earth was "to fulfil the Law (Gk. for fulfil is 'pleroo': to bring to completion). Yes, the Law was Perfect from both the Mouth & Finger of God, but Jesus came to finally cast aside what the Law was designed for & its intent, (and NOT its value & truth), which ultimately brought men under condemnation; Jesus came to fulfil the Law (& only He the sinless Son of God could), bringing it to finality & abolishment, thus ushering the New Covenant in His Blood. Two Covenants can never operate simultaneously, particularly where one led to hopelessness, helplessness and death; & the other availed to give life, hope & power in the Spirit.
Even Hebrews 8:13 reminds us of the finality of that Law: "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away". And if we read earlier in Hebrews 8:10, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people". (see also Jeremiah 31:31-33). Onto Page 2.
Jesus didn't idly tell us that the law wouldn't change. He was talking about God's Ten Commandments not changing. The laws that changed were the temple, the priesthood, the sacrificial days and rites pertaining to them.
Matthew 5 17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
All things have not yet been fulfilled and heaven and earth still stand. Below is the fulfillment Jesus was talking about. He wasn't talking about His Crucifixion and Resurrection. The key to understanding that scripture is that heaven and earth must pass away first before the law, Gods Law changes.
Revelation 21
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Woe, since your responses are scattered in this thread, I will refer to them individually rather than collectively.
We again refer to Matthew 5:17-20. The questions we must ask when reading this passage (or, any passage of Scripture) is, 'what is being referred to here?' Verse 17: 'Law & the Prophets'. Jesus is referring to what we understand is the breakdown of the Tanakh, namely, the Torah (the Law - Pentateuch), the Nevi'im (the Prophetical Books), and the Ketuvim (the Writings - others). Here, Jesus speaks only of the Torah & Nevi'im, and these He would not destroy (nor will they ever be destroyed), until all is fulfilled by Him. If you agree to this understanding, then we have a basis to proceed.
The Law that Jesus referred to, was not simply the Ten Commandments, but all the Law of God given to Israel, just as 'the Prophets' could not be restricted to certain prophetical books but to all that was given to Israel for their present & future state. If we restrict the Law to the Decalogue only, then we are presuming that this was of much greater worth than the other Laws given by God. Whereas, the Decalogue was a brief snapshot given to a people, once under the rigors of slavery & hardship, who had all but forgotten the Living God Who had never forgotten them. The Decalogue was a reminder to them of God's essential requirements for His people as they made their way to idolatrous Canaan, also showing to them that the Law could not ever bring about the desired outcome for holy living, simply because sinful flesh can never fulfil what that Law demanded (being "weak through the flesh"); that the Law should have pointed to them of their need of a coming Savior, to condemn sin in the flesh, providing an escape from a Law that only entrapped the soul, not giving life (see Romans 8:3,4). Onto Page 2.
But only the righteousness of the Law could be fulfilled in us - how? By holding onto the Law of sin & death? No, by those being led by God's Spirit, He Who applies the Law in a continual, greater & more perfect measure in those who belong to Christ.
And yes, God's Laws are eternal ("till the heavens & earth pass away"), but Jesus has fulfilled them for us perfectly (not just the sacrificial aspects only but what Israel & us could never keep from the Decalogue) & thus He was the only Sacrifice that could avail for us. If Jesus failed, we would fail because of the Law's demands - and there would be no hope for mankind. Why should we appeal to a Law that only revealed our sin & brought death, rather, we ought to listen & obey the Spirit of Life Who tells us daily, constantly how to obey & please the Father.
So, I understand your reference to Revelation 21:1-5, pertaining to the Law that is eternal. But do we neglect the many passages, which I've already quoted, that show us the finality of the Law & its demands at the Cross, as Jesus ushered in the New Covenant administered by the Life-giving Spirit (without the Law's weaknesses & leading men to death)?
The Laws that a converted Israel would receive, would no longer be as those formerly written on stone, but now 'in fleshy tables of the heart' ( 2 Corinthians 3:3). The Old has decayed and vanished away, only because of Jesus & His institution of the New Covenant. Let us not abide by things that are from the old economy, as even now, priests still wear religious garb & mitres, with their incense lamps as did the Jewish priests of old, rather to embrace what God's Spirit has for us in our hearts & lives, never leading us into condemnation.
As for your reference to Matthew 12:36-42, I'm not going to debate that, for I believe as you do, in what Jesus said about His death & resurrection relating it to Jonah's entombment in the 'whale'. The issue is first with the references I gave earlier, viz Mark 16:1,2,9, with John 20:1 complementing it. If the two Marys came "very early in the morning on the first day of the week", & "it was still dark", that tells me that they had arrived at the sepulchre to anoint Jesus' Body before dawn broke on the first day of the week (Sunday). Yes, the Jewish Sunday started after sundown Sabbath, but it still was Sunday when morning broke. You stated: "The earliest they (the Marys) could come to the tomb and administer the spices was as Saturday ended that very evening and Sunday began to dawn, which occurs at SUNDOWN. So Mary came at sundown Saturday." If Saturday (Sabbath) ended in the evening, the dawn of Sunday was still 10-12 hours away; if a day dawns, it is when the sun begins to rise - the day cannot dawn straight after the sun sets the previous day. This shows that the women came up to 12 hours after the Sabbath Day ended (i.e. the next day, Sunday). So I don't get your timeline here.
And just a final personal, maybe rhetorical, question: do you consider yourself to be wholly subject to the New Covenant in Christ's Blood, or do you believe it is necessary to embrace both the Old & the New to be right before God?
John's disciples were Jews. They were still following the rules of Judaism and living under the obligations of the Old Covenant, with its ceremonial rituals and religious regulations, including fasting on certain days
Leviticus 16:29-31
Leviticus 23:32
Luke 18:12.
Jesus came to usher in the New and fulfillment of the Law and do away with the ( rituals and Foreshadowing ) ministry that veiled their Hearts.
There also is a Change in Priesthood!
Hebrews 7:11. If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Yes, Jesus is High Priest of the order of Melchizedek. He is the only intercessor between man and God. No man on earth holds any position higher than any other man and no man on earth sits in Jesus' stead or can absolve sin. No man is to take on the name Father in a religious fashion. There are only those who study and are on milk and others who are on meat. Then there are others who consume and/or share tainted word and still others who any and all reject religion outright. There are three major religious faction in the world. Islam, Christianity and Judaism. All three are in error and teach deceptive and/or contrary doctrine to Christ.
Judaism seeks to hold onto the Old Covenant which is done away with. Christianity seeks to replace the teaching of Christ with the doctrines of men and Islam seeks to rewrite the biblical narrative into their own false account. All three are called to Convert. If the Commandments of God are taken out of the way, there isn't anything to convert to. Jesus came to establish the law, not do away with it. What law? God's law. Jesus says if you want to enter into life keep the Commandments. They are not burdensome or difficult. This is what He demonstrated to us. Furthermore, before Abraham and Moses, there was also other ordinances that we know God instituted and meant to be kept. Unclean and Clean animals for example. God says He is Holy, we must be Holy too. He calls unclean animals an abomination. Noah was told to take 7 pair of clean animals onto the Ark. 2 pair of unclean. God established this ordinance. Noah was aware of what unclean and clean animals were. Likewise, Gods 10 Commandments also were established by God prior to the Covenant made with Abraham. Don't think that you can do abominable things or defraud God of what He Commands. There is no law against doing good and following God's law is good. Christ didn't remove God's law. He removed sin laws, days pertaining to them and sacrifice for them.
Thanks brother S. Spencer and for your further references. I certainly liked the Matthew 9:16,17 where our Lord essentially reminded John the Baptist's disciples that you can't mix the old with the new, or else the product desired would be lost & destroyed. As Jesus had now come, He came to bring in the new life (embedded in His Everlasting Covenant), that those who believe in Him for their salvation might be now clothed in His Righteousness (without any fragmentation or wear), and the Holy Spirit given to reign in redeemed hearts & lives. Calling upon the old garments & old wineskins now can only be detrimental & bring confusion to those wanting to live in the Spirit.
I also realize that much of biblical teaching, whether received in childhood or from the pulpit, can sometimes be superficial, thus more readily received. I am guilty of being one of those unfortunates. But after re-birth, my heart was set to really study the Scriptures for what they said in entirety with the Spirit's guidance & help, & not pander to what I was once fed. I found that most of those people were themselves not prepared or unable to go deeper into the Word, so they could only issue forth generalities: such as, we must obey the Ten Commandments as Christians, or other matters concerning the Triune Nature of God, or even His eternal Judgement. We must be prepared to look past the superficial or what is convenient & palatable, and look deeper, theologically/exegetically, into such important teachings. Onto Page 2.
As Christians we all learn at different levels of degree on what the scriptures reveal. Many only listen to what they are told is truth without studying the word themselves. Even those that do study often read into scripture things they want it to say or impart their own agenda that deviates from what is said. None of us are perfectly endowed with the knowledge and ability to discern all aspects of how the scripture and these things affect ones faith and belief in what they know or think they know. I can be wrong, you can be wrong, others can be wrong. The most important thing anyone who studies and shares scripture needs to remember is that faith is a personal discovery process that is a never ending journey comprised of multifaceted and numerous avenues of exploration. A true Christian will not only challenge others to evaluate their understanding of what they think they know, but also challenge themselves to continually re-asses their own understanding and knowledge on matters pertaining to what they study, learn & share. There also is no shortage of people who use religion and scripture to defraud others and promote lies or misconceptions intentionally or otherwise. Some do it for a paycheck, others do it for ego and still others do it out of spite for religion itself and many do it out of ignorance. As scripture says; God will judge us all and some are on milk, while others are eating the meat. When views clash in discussion it's easy to want to push the narrative you might hold and attempt to force it on someone else who might see things in different aspect, leading to unprofitable and damaging consequence. We all are ultimately convinced in our own mind what is right or what is wrong and God will sort us all out at the appointed time. Not all people who claim the name of Christ belong to him. He knows who are his and who are not. So until God sorts it out, there will always be division & varying degree of faith and spiritual discernment. Don't let Ego play.
Thank you Woe, all that you have written here is correct & I fully concur. We need to seriously consider what we read in the Bible, and by the Spirit's Help, to rightly understand it and divide it. Though, as we are here in a Bible Site to discuss matters pertaining to the Bible & our Christian walk, what we exchange here between each other, is purely to disseminate what we have learned & understood from the Word. And yes, the mirror needs to be continually before our faces, to see whether what we say to another, doesn't in fact bear upon us as well.
That is why, when in a discussion such as this, I take all Scripture into account, ensuring the basic elements of the subject are foundational. I find that if the foundation is incorrect or wobbly, then whatever is built thereon will very likely totter over & crumble. So, even when I say that the Decalogue, or all of God's Commandments were given to Israel & no one else, I know that it will immediately raise eyebrows by those who believe (or, taught) otherwise. And that is why we then delve into the Word to learn further. So, even through extensive discussions we might never come to agreement (& this is most often the case), we at least have presented arguments in support of our beliefs, for our learning, understanding & for any other interested reader's benefit. So no Ego here, neither with you nor me, just bringing out the Word of God.
Yes, in the mind, it is nicer & more convenient to have a set of rules to follow & gauge one's standing before God by it. But if we study further, we find that the ministry of the Holy Spirit takes us far far deeper into God's requirements for holy living than what the Decalogue or any of the Laws given to Israel could ever do. So why do we then insist on holding onto the old cloth & old wineskins?; they're only good for us to see what the old life was once like, I'm sure. These are the questions I had to deal with early on in my Christian experience without the aid of anyone or even the internet - just sitting with God's Word. If I'm in error, a proper exegesis of the Scriptures would help us all greatly & not just beliefs carried over from the past. Blessings to you brother.
As for the other scripture you posted it has misplaced punctuation.
Mark 16:9-20
King James Version
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
The comma is placed in the wrong spot. It should read thus;
9 Now when Jesus was risen; early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Notwithstanding; The women followed and watched Jesus placed into the tomb and the stone rolled in front of the door.
Scripture clearly tells us they placed Jesus body in the tomb in haste, because the sabbath drew on. It was so close to sabbath that the women would NOT have had time to prepare spices until after it was over. Doing so would have been a violation of the sabbath. They had to wait until Friday to buy and prepare spices, which was a lengthy process and since Jesus was already in the tomb, Friday was the only day they could do it.
Then, they again had to wait, because the weekly sabbath began at sundown Friday. They earliest they could come to the tomb and administer the spices was as Saturday ended that very evening and Sunday began to dawn, which occurs at SUNDOWN. So Mary came at sundown Saturday. Since a day is from sundown to sundown; it therefore would have been very early Sunday morning and still dark. Again, at sundown Saturday ended and Sunday began. For a day, the morning of a day in biblical terms doesn't coincide with our modern day view of how days begin and end. Mary in our modern definition would have actually came to the tomb Saturday night in our current reckoning and this is why it was still dark out when she did.
36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. 38Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. 42The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
So now, do you think that Jesus said what he did in idle fashion?
Jonah 1:17
"Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights."
As for what you posted, it is a misnomer. A day starts at evening and ends at evening. There is a mistranslation in scripture. It's not as the sun began to rise ....it's as the new day began to dawn or spring forth, or up. Mary came to the tomb as Saturday ended and Sunday began, which was SUNSET. When a new day begins!
The following verse is a more accurate description and translation.
John 20:1
"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."
Without debating the actually day of Christ's crucifixion (whether Wednesday, Thursday or Friday), the point here is if Jesus was resurrected on the Sabbath (the 7th day) then Sabbath-keepers might be emboldened to honor that day (i.e. in rest & worship). But if Jesus was resurrected on the Sunday (as the Scriptures tell us), then it shows that the Church was not bound to the Old Law but to the New Covenant, and was free to worship on any day. And Sunday, the Lord's Day, was set aside for these followers of Christ to gather together aligning with their Savior's resurrection & victory over sin & death.
The fact that the Church, in its infancy, still attended the synagogue ( Acts 2:46) is important, until the formation of 'house-type Churches' meeting on a Sunday, the first day of the week, of which we read in Acts 20:7,8 and 1 Corinthians 16:2.
The scripture does not tell us that Jesus was resurrected on Sunday. That is a misnomer and a traditional view that people hold, because it is what many religiously derived institutions teach. However it goes against what the scriptures themselves reveal. I have attempted to demonstrate this to you, but you have declined to accept the evidence I shared, which is your right to do. Careful study of the scriptures will reveal the truth and we are warned not to teach false doctrine and deceptive narrative. We won't be held guiltless for doing so. So it is imperative that one claiming to be Christian carefully evaluate and discern all aspects of certain events and timing to glean the truth from them. God established the sabbath day at the close of Creation. Scripture reveals to us that God doesn't change. The sabbath was instituted prior to the Creation of man. It is man that broke the covenant and it is man that thinks he can change God's Sabbath day. It is the Anti Christ that seeks to change times and laws. What laws? God's Commandments. What times? The Sabbath day. The one Commandment that tell us to REMEMBER what day God sanctified.
The RCC admits that they changed the day of worship to Sunday. However, God never gave man the authority to do so. This change was not enacted by Christ. Nor was Christ resurrected on Sunday. People make these claims because they are ignorant of the other scriptures that help reveal these things. Many simply look at the scriptures surrounding the crucifixion timeline, never considering there is other scripture elsewhere that provide necessary keys to establishing that timeline correctly. So they err due to their ego driven ignorance, thinking they understand things when in reality they lack the wisdom and due diligence to discover these hidden things to reveal the mystery and importance of including those thing into the crucifixion narrative. There is a narrow path that is missed by a majority of people and most enter the broad path.
Thanks again for the reply, Woe. I have already shared why I believe the first day of the week was Jesus' resurrection day - and from the Scriptures given. And yes, I have received the evidence you have shared, & found it faulty in light of the Scriptures. Even 'God establishing the Sabbath Day at the close of Creation', is incorrect, as we only read that 'God rested (ceased) from His Work, blessed the seventh day and sanctified it (set it apart)' ( Genesis 2:1-3). But the Sabbath was only given at Mt Sinai to His people. If we say that Genesis 26:5 proves without doubt that the Laws & Sabbath remembrance was given to & observed by Abraham, then this belief must only be an assumption, since there is no Scripture to tell us what was given to Abraham. Even if I had to guess what Laws, commands & statutes were given to him, mine too would just be a guess - and that is the sort of thing I avoid most vehemently, as it only breeds error & simply adds fuel to those desperately searching for verses to support their position.
The only clear Scripture relating to Christ's resurrection on the first day of the week is found in Mark 16:9 (to which we have found disagreement previously). Maybe a Greek scholar can confirm how they understand that verse, (taken from my Lexicon), whether
'Anastas de proi prote sabbatou, ephane proton Maria te Magdalene..' is read better,
or Anastas de, proi prote sabbatou ephane proton Maria te Magdalene..' is better read? Maybe, that might help us further.
The RCC may have changed the day of worship, according to them I presume, but Church history informs us that the early Church fathers in general, believed that the First Day of the Week was the occasion to worship & commune together. The Didache (Teachings of the Apostles), Ignatius of Antioch (AD 110), Justin Martyr (AD 155), & John Chrysostom (AD 395), are a few who held that view. Cont'd on Page 2.
And the latter's (Chrysostom) Homilies on Galatians 2:17 is particularly telling, which I quote here:
"For though few are now circumcised, yet, by fasting and observing the sabbath with the Jews, they equally exclude themselves from grace... You have put on Christ, you have become a member of the Lord and been enrolled in the heavenly city, and you still grovel in the law [of Moses]? How is it possible for you to obtain the kingdom? Listen to Paul's words, that the observance of the law overthrows the gospel, and learn, if you will, how this comes to pass, and tremble, and shun this pitfall. Why do you keep the Sabbath and fast with the Jews? Is it that you fear the Law and abandonment of its letter? But you would not entertain this fear, did you not disparage faith as weak, and by itself powerless to save. A fear to omit the sabbath plainly shows that you fear the Law as still in force; and if the Law is needful, it is so as a whole, not in part, nor in one commandment only; and if as a whole, the righteousness which is by faith is little by little shut out. If you keep the sabbath, why not also be circumcised? And if circumcised, why not also offer sacrifices? If the Law is to be observed, it must be observed as a whole, or not at all."
Just forwarding the above, not only for the abolishing of the Law as pertaining to its currency post-Cross, but more particularly, that rejecting the Sabbath is not some new thing, but an observance by the early Church & those who belonged or taught since those days.
I hope you don't mind. Concerning the crucifixion and resurrection days, if we compare all the gospels, all four give the clearest truth.
In John 12:1-12, we learn that six days before Passover, Jesus visited the house of Mary, Martha, and Lazarus in Bethany. The following day, He rode into Jerusalem, five days before Passover. This event was significant because it coincided with the 10th of Nisan, the day the lambs were selected and held until the 14th when they would be sacrificed for Passover, the same time Jesus died on the cross, Exodus 12:1-14. These Passover lambs were eaten the night of the 15th the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread the day Israel went out of Egypt.
Sunday Matthew 21:1-17, Mark 11:1-11, Luke 19:28-22:7, and John 12:12-50.
Monday, Matthew 21:18-19Mark 11:12-19 This was the 11th, four days before Passover the 2nd day of the week.
Tuesday, Matthew 21:20 to 26:2 Mark 11:20 to 14:2 This was the 12th, three days before Passover, the third day of the week.
Wednesday, Matthew 26:6-16Mark 14:3-11Luke 22:1-6 This was the 13th, and at sunset is Passover day the 14th. The Last Supper, the arrest, sent to Pilot, the crucifixion, and placed in the tomb were all on the 14th, Passover day. Friday would be the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
Jesus was in the tomb Thur. Day, Fri, Night, Fri. Day, Sat. Night, Sat. Day, Sun. Night, three days, and three nights. Jesus rose on the first day of the week and fulfilled the Feast of First Fruits, Leviticus 23:10-14 This coincides with what Jesus told Mary, touch me not, He had not ascended to His Father, John 20:17. The Feast of First Fruits as we see is on the first day after the Sabbath after Passover Day.
If Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, the women could have gone to the tomb on Friday because Friday is a preparation day for the weekly Sabbath.
Matthew 5:18,19. Jesus was speaking about obedience to the whole Law, not to what the Pharisees taught that some Laws were less important to others. And as those under the Law, Jesus taught that the whole Law was current until "all be fulfilled" (i.e. only Jesus could keep the Law perfectly & through His death & resurrection, fulfilled the Law, removed the curse, by being made a curse on our behalf). Once that curse that the Law brought was removed by His death, we are no longer under the Law which only brought death, but now receive the blessing of Abraham, receiving God's Promises to us, not by the keeping the Law, but by obedience to the Spirit by the exercise of faith ( Galatians 3:10-14, also Romans 8:2-4).
Yes, Jesus' death fulfilled all the sacrifices that Israel had to do year-by-year, and these sacrifices looked forward to God's Perfect once-for-all Sacrifice. But only by Jesus' death could the New Covenant be ushered in, the Old had to be abolished, or else the New could not take effect (you can't have two Covenants operating simultaneously). And the Old Covenant most certainly included the Ten Commandments & every Law that was given to Israel. Those who are in Christ no longer abide by a Law that only had condemnation & death as its end, but now we can live according to the ministry of the Holy Spirit Who gives Life & Power to know & abide by all of God's Commandments.
Thanks for you input. I disagree with your assessment because scripture reveals time and time again that God's Saints keep the Commandments of God and the Faith of Jesus. I gave scripture that specifically tells us the 10 Commandments Moses put on the tablets are in fact the Covenant words God gave to Abraham. Reject it if you will, however the words as proof within scripture remain and will not be moved or changed by the will of others wanting to hold views contrary to this truth.
The following also adequately supports my position. However there are numerous other examples I could share, notwithstanding, Jesus Himself tells all men to keep God's 10 Commandments.
Many, many preachers teach falsity and lies. Some out of ignorance and others out of greed. Just as many listen to them and don't do their own due diligence to verify what they are told is truth.
James 2:18 Context
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Furthermore, I can show definitive proof using scripture that Jesus was not Crucified or buried on a Friday, nor did Jesus rise on Sunday. A Friday Crucifixion and Sunday Resurrection is given as the basis for most Sunday observing denominations in holding Sunday in regard rather than God's Commanded Sabbath. However they err in doing so and as I said, I can demonstrate using scripture why they err in this.
Sorry. Scripture clearly disagrees with your statement the the 10 Commandments only apply to the Jews. This is discussed in Galatians 3. There was confusion as to what law Jesus did away with. The law of the Covenant that was given to Abraham was The Ten Commandments. Just as is also recorded when Moses re-wrote them on the tablets. The laws for sin were added later and it is these that Jesus came to do away with. We see The Ten Commandments were the words of the Covenant.
See here;
Exodus 34:28
"And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments."
Exodus 34 specifically says the words of the Covenant that was made with Abraham are God's Ten Commandments.
Then in Galatians we are show the difference between God's Law and those added due to sin, by men, the laws for sin were added 430 year later and were not part of the Covenant Law which is The Ten Commandments.
It's why Jesus says;
Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
See also;
Galatians Chapter 3
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
God's Ten Commandments remain in effect for all men.
Jesus tells all men to keep the Commandments of God. There is no Conversion if men reject them.
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
You make a very good arguement for your point thank you . Also , if we see that Christ is represented in the Old Testament by the Ark of the Covenant , then we must remember that the Ark contained the tablets of stone with the ten commandments on and also , that all of the ten commandments are based on love , love God and love our neighbour . This is the whole law , Jesus says that somewhere I'm sure .
All those other laws are about punishments for breaking the ten commandments , punishments for sin . Humans created sin , God created love , indeed God is love .
There is a difference between saying something without providing evidence to support it and saying something with evidence that does. I gave supporting evidence based upon the established, accepted, historical record to support what I shared, while you didn't. Were I able to provide linked material for further support, I could demonstrate in better detail even more to establish what I share. So then, there is separation between fabricated claims as opposed to those that are recorded as accurate and true in the historical records, that are accepted as valid by such reason. Laws, courts and governing authorities rely on strict rules for admissible things to be included in the established record. They rely on witness testimony, valid documentation, official records and experts in the field of study or field of research to establish fact. You have provided none of that. If you were to state what you did before a judge in a court of law, it would be thrown out as hearsay. You have simply shared an opinion, without showing it to have any basis for being factual or true. Nor have you given any evidence or documentation in support of that opinion.
Leviticus 19:29
"Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness."
The entire book of Hosea is about the Whoredom of Israel. The 10 lost tribes went into Assyria and played the harlot and are scattered among the nations, even today. Jesus established a New Covenant with all men. Jesus says He has two flocks. One is redeemed already. They came out of the graves. Jesus returns to collect from among the Gentiles the second flock. 2 Esdras 13 speaks about Hosea, calling him Osea. Verse 40 shows the lost 10 tribes Christ returns for. Verse 48, shows the other two. Christianity, like Old Covenant Israel also has whoredom and harlots under the New Covenant. God's Ten Commandment apply to both the Old and the New. Only the Saints are God's Children.
Asia in this Context is Asian Minor which at the time of writing was held by Rome and is also identified as Asia in Revelation 1:4
Mystery Babylon is the Roman Empire, 2 Esdras above is speaking about Constantinople which the Ottoman Turks vanquished. The Roman Empire at the time contained the cities of the 7 churches in Revelation 1 and 2. Those 7 churches were cities within the Roman Empire at the time of writing.
Just as the Bride of Christ as a woman is a church, so too is the Whore and the Harlot daughters. The Bride of Christ is the true Church. The Whore and the Harlot daughters are false churches. They take the name of Christ, but they don't follow the Commandments of God. Specifically, they reject the 4th Commandment and in doing so they break all of the others too.
Luke 6:46
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
Matthew 15:9
"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."
Mark 7:8
"For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do."
Isaiah 4:1
And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.
These Harlots and the Whore wear polluted Spiritual clothing. They eat Spiritually polluted bread. (They taint and serve polluted teaching as if it were the word of God) They claim to be Christian, but are Christian in name only, because they reject God's Commandments and teach doctrine of men in it's place. Those 7 women are the churches in Revelation 1 and 2. That man is Jesus Christ. The Whore is the Roman Catholic Church and the Harlot daughters are the churches that broke away, IE. Protestant, Baptist, etc... All keep Sunday rather than Saturday as Commanded and practice pagan rites/idolatry.
Islam, Christianity and Judaism were these three factions. History shows that they all played a major role in Asia Minor, the Levant and Israel. The entire region was under the rule of these three throughout history and can be confirmed through the study of such. The center head of the Eagle I believe is Israel as indicated by the scattering of the people at the destruction of the 2nd temple and the other empires conquering of it. The head on the right consumes the head on the left, so I think this was the Ottoman Empire overtaking the Byzantine Empire. In order of context of history this melds well, but without going back and looking and studying more and going through what I already have researched again I am going to be moderate in my solidification of my stance on this.
Notably also, Esdras is told that the vision of the Eagle is the same as the vision given to the prophet Daniel.
The feathers and wings are in fact rulers of the monarchies, republic's and empires of these three religious factions or of the center head or a combination of the three. In any case, most of what pertains to this vision has already taken place, up until the lion roars. Then we have a fourth beast mentioned, which I believe it the RCC, Mystery Babylon which is the remaining body of the eagle. I do have the identifying characteristics of the historical leaders recorded in a saved file with their counterpart wings and feather, that precisely align with the narrative. I may share those, but the content of the information dealing with that is very large and the allowed room for sharing things on here in the text box is extremely small, so I would need to condense my research first. Also links are not allowed so that presents a challenge to citing my sources and evidence.
The Ten Commandments, and most certainly the 4th, has nothing to do with the Church of Christ Jesus. Please consider Exodus 31:12-18. In that passage, there are three distinct occasions where the children of Israel are spoken of & that they alone were to keep the Sabbath Day holy. It was never given to the Gentiles, & certainly not to Christ's Church. True, there were imposter Churches around then as also today, but the marks of their falsehood are not seen in the keeping of the Ten Commandments, rather in the preaching of a defective Gospel and their incorrect understanding and handling of the Word of God.
Where the Decalogue was given to Israel to obey, or where even our Lord told the people to "keep the commandments" (e.g. Matthew 19:17), all was done because the Law was still in force & the New Covenant in Christ's Blood was not ushered in as yet. Once the price for sin was paid & accepted by the Father, only those believing in Jesus to save them from the awful penalty for their sin, could be redeemed, saved, given new birth by the Holy Spirit, and come under the New Covenant administered by the Spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:6-11. The Old has been abolished, which is the Law (contained) in ordinances (Gk. dogmasim) ( Ephesians 2:14-16).
When we read below, we are shown that the Covenant law is distinct and separate from the sin laws which came 430 years later as clearly shown in verse 17. Those later additions were sacrificial laws and days set up to be observed for sin offering and the days created pertaining to them, due to sin. They were not given by God, but added because of men's transgression. They were added by men, not God.
Galatians 3
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
The law questioned in the incipient part of verse 19, specifically applies to this part of verse 17; "the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after".
The law questioned in verse 19 above, doesn't apply to the Ten Commandments, which is discussed in the first part of verse 17.
With some reading comprehension; There are in fact two distinct laws being discussed in verse 17. The first is The Covenant Law of God The Ten Commandments. The second discussed is; what was added 430 years later due to sin of men, and added by men.
Galatians tells us it is those later additions that were to be removed by Jesus, but they would remain until Jesus did away with them, however, Jesus, Himself, tells us that God's Covenant law will remain in effect until the heaven and earth are removed.
Thank you Woe for your detailed response. If I might begin at the start of your comment. You referred to Galatians chapter 3 & Exodus 34:28. The Covenant that God made with Abraham (otherwise called the Abrahamic Covenant) had nothing to do with the Ten Commandments ( Ex 34:28 doesn't indicate that at all). The Abrahamic Covenant is found in various portions in Genesis 12:1-3; Genesis 15:18-21; Genesis 17:1-22; Genesis 22:16-18. The Ten Commandments were never given to Abraham; Abraham was commended for his faith & obedience, outside of any Law. He only received the Promise.
Galatians 3:17-19 which you quoted. Verse 17 particularly: "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect". The comparison here is made to the promise of God to Abraham (the Covenant), that the Ten Commandments were given 430 years after God's Promises to Abraham. So, there aren't two Laws, just one given at Mt. Sinai - what was given to Abraham wasn't the Law but the inheritance by Promise. (cont'd on Page 2)
We are told in Genesis 26:5 below that Abraham did in fact keep the Commandments of God. The laws for sin were not part of that Covenant and were added later after Israel came out of Egypt. It is those laws that Jesus came to do away with, not God's laws Abraham already was keeping, established by God at Creation.
Genesis 26
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. 6 And Isaac dwelt in Gerar:
God confirmed a Covenant with Abraham, but the same Covenant made with Abraham was then made with all men, because God found all men to be in unbelief. The Jews thought they were heirs to the promise, but scripture says it was to the One Seed, Jesus. that the promise was made in Galatians 3.
You can't claim to have the faith of Jesus if you also do not walk as He walks. Jesus tells us to take up our own cross and follow after Him. He was our example. Jesus spoke about our fruit and told us a good tree bears good fruit. Hence the fruit of the Spirit is to keep God's eternal law which brings no condemnation, but avoid works of the flesh which do.
Galatians 5
18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Thanks for your further comments Woe. It is correct that "Abraham obeyed my (God's) voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws" ( Genesis 26:5). But when did all these commandments, statutes & laws given to Abraham? If God covenanted with Abraham concerning blessing, inheritance, & multiplication of his seed (as per the Genesis references I gave previously), where in Scripture do we find that these Laws (particularly the Decalogue) was ever given to Abraham? Could these laws, commandments & statutes be different to what was given at Mt. Sinai, regulations that pertained specifically to Abraham's life & direction he was to take? Not to say that something of the Mosaic Law would not be included in that giving to Abraham, but we are not told specifically what was given, therefore we are not at liberty to assume or presume (which is a fundamental biblical rule).
No, Jesus doesn't "tell all men to keep God's 10 commandments". He was speaking to the Jews who were under the Law - Gentiles & the Church never received the Law & were never brought under it. Where we find in the NT about believers needing to obey God's Commandments (as in 1 John 2:3, 1 John 5:3), it is spoken as to those not under the Law but under the Law of the Spirit. And the Holy Spirit will certainly bring before us God's Commandments, and many, many more than the few in the Decalogue that pertained only to Israel who had long forgotten the God of Israel when in Egypt ( Exodus 3:13,14). The Ten Commandments were given to a discouraged enslaved people who had lost all knowledge of God & His requirements - given to them to show God's Standard of worship & godly living, but ultimately to reveal to them their sin, their need to trust & hope in the Living God & their need of a Savior.
Concerning a Friday crucifixion or Sunday resurrection, I won't get into that here, except to quote Luke 24:1, "Now upon the first day of the week.." And that is a Sunday, which follows the seventh day of the week, a Saturday/Sabbath.
You did well to quote Galatians 5:18-25: showing that we are not under the Law, which means that we are free from its ultimate purpose: that of revealing human spiritual & mental frailty & resulting condemnation. If we break even one Law, we have broken all & remain condemned ( James 2:10). There was nothing wrong at all with the Law ( Romans 7:12), but its purpose was to lead men to Christ, not to be resurrected again by those now in Christ as some sort of rule book to follow & please God by. The only way to please the LORD is to do His Will, following the dictates of His Holy Spirit He has given us. If we use the Decalogue as some sort of yardstick to measure our spiritual standard & acceptance to God, then we have failed & missed the whole point of Christ's Sacrifice & the great matchless worth of the New Covenant in His Blood. Thank you for your time.
We have clear evidence in scripture that the women who wanted to attend to Christ's body with spices couldn't, because the Sabbath drew on and Christ was placed in the tomb. Then after the sabbath they went and bought spices, took them and prepared them, which would have taken a great deal of time and then again rested on the Sabbath, Saturday, which began at Sunset on Friday. Why? Because there were two Sabbath in the week Jesus was crucified. Furthermore a biblical day begins at sunset and ends at sunset. You might not want to get into it, but it is an imperative that the crucifixion week is evaluated properly as it dispels the false teaching that Jesus was crucified on a Friday. Not only that, but in Christ's own words, He would be in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights as Jonah was in the belly of the whale. This is a full 72 hours. So Christ was placed in the tomb at sunset on Wednesday, Thursday was the High annual Sabbath of Passover. Friday was preparation for the weekly Sabbath and the weekly Sabbath began at sunset in accordance with scripture that a day begins and ends at sunset. Christ was then Resurrected at sunset on Saturday, just as Sunday began to dawn and the sun began to set. As the sun went down, Mary came to the tomb and found Christ had already risen. It was the earliest she could go after the Sabbath had ended. Christ rose on Saturday as the day came to an end. Christ did NOT rise on Sunday. He was already risen prior to the time Sunday began, which was at sunset of Saturday. Scripture tells us that the disciples were gathered in the room on Sunday for fear of the Jews. They were not meeting or holding a worship service. They were hiding.
Well Woe, we were still dealing with the Decalogue & its applicability to the Church (are we done with that?), so that is why I didn't want to side track towards the dates of the burial & resurrection of Jesus. But since you have brought it up, let's proceed.
I always begin with what we already know (from Scripture), and that is the Day of Christ's Resurrection. Mark 16:1,2,9: "And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils".
In these verses, we read that Jesus was resurrected early on the first day of the week (v9), that the two Marys would have rested on the Sabbath Day & prepared their spices (as you mentioned), and as soon as it was morning (actually, still dark - John 20:1) after the Sabbath, these women came to the sepulchre. Some have swapped the commas here, to read: "Now when Jesus was risen, early the first day of the week he appeared". Even if one does that, with the Jewish day reckoned from sundown to sundown, the Sabbath would have ended about eleven hours before, thus confirming that Jesus didn't arise from the dead on Sabbath Day, but on the first day of the week, Sunday. Onto Page 2.
Again we look at what Jesus says and may I remind you these are not idle words;
Matthew 5:18, Jesus states, "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
Heaven and earth have not yet passed, so true to word, God's Ten Commandments remain.
If I could first address your last point here ( Matthew 5:18). Do you think that the previous verse (v 17, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil"), has some connection to verse 18? Clearly, Jesus is upholding the Law (i.e. what was given by God, & not those spurious laws the religious leaders imposed upon the people). He also states that the Law will abide forever. And He further states that His Coming to Earth was "to fulfil the Law (Gk. for fulfil is 'pleroo': to bring to completion). Yes, the Law was Perfect from both the Mouth & Finger of God, but Jesus came to finally cast aside what the Law was designed for & its intent, (and NOT its value & truth), which ultimately brought men under condemnation; Jesus came to fulfil the Law (& only He the sinless Son of God could), bringing it to finality & abolishment, thus ushering the New Covenant in His Blood. Two Covenants can never operate simultaneously, particularly where one led to hopelessness, helplessness and death; & the other availed to give life, hope & power in the Spirit.
Even Hebrews 8:13 reminds us of the finality of that Law: "In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away". And if we read earlier in Hebrews 8:10, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people". (see also Jeremiah 31:31-33). Onto Page 2.
Matthew 5 17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
All things have not yet been fulfilled and heaven and earth still stand. Below is the fulfillment Jesus was talking about. He wasn't talking about His Crucifixion and Resurrection. The key to understanding that scripture is that heaven and earth must pass away first before the law, Gods Law changes.
Revelation 21
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Woe, since your responses are scattered in this thread, I will refer to them individually rather than collectively.
We again refer to Matthew 5:17-20. The questions we must ask when reading this passage (or, any passage of Scripture) is, 'what is being referred to here?' Verse 17: 'Law & the Prophets'. Jesus is referring to what we understand is the breakdown of the Tanakh, namely, the Torah (the Law - Pentateuch), the Nevi'im (the Prophetical Books), and the Ketuvim (the Writings - others). Here, Jesus speaks only of the Torah & Nevi'im, and these He would not destroy (nor will they ever be destroyed), until all is fulfilled by Him. If you agree to this understanding, then we have a basis to proceed.
The Law that Jesus referred to, was not simply the Ten Commandments, but all the Law of God given to Israel, just as 'the Prophets' could not be restricted to certain prophetical books but to all that was given to Israel for their present & future state. If we restrict the Law to the Decalogue only, then we are presuming that this was of much greater worth than the other Laws given by God. Whereas, the Decalogue was a brief snapshot given to a people, once under the rigors of slavery & hardship, who had all but forgotten the Living God Who had never forgotten them. The Decalogue was a reminder to them of God's essential requirements for His people as they made their way to idolatrous Canaan, also showing to them that the Law could not ever bring about the desired outcome for holy living, simply because sinful flesh can never fulfil what that Law demanded (being "weak through the flesh"); that the Law should have pointed to them of their need of a coming Savior, to condemn sin in the flesh, providing an escape from a Law that only entrapped the soul, not giving life (see Romans 8:3,4). Onto Page 2.
But only the righteousness of the Law could be fulfilled in us - how? By holding onto the Law of sin & death? No, by those being led by God's Spirit, He Who applies the Law in a continual, greater & more perfect measure in those who belong to Christ.
And yes, God's Laws are eternal ("till the heavens & earth pass away"), but Jesus has fulfilled them for us perfectly (not just the sacrificial aspects only but what Israel & us could never keep from the Decalogue) & thus He was the only Sacrifice that could avail for us. If Jesus failed, we would fail because of the Law's demands - and there would be no hope for mankind. Why should we appeal to a Law that only revealed our sin & brought death, rather, we ought to listen & obey the Spirit of Life Who tells us daily, constantly how to obey & please the Father.
So, I understand your reference to Revelation 21:1-5, pertaining to the Law that is eternal. But do we neglect the many passages, which I've already quoted, that show us the finality of the Law & its demands at the Cross, as Jesus ushered in the New Covenant administered by the Life-giving Spirit (without the Law's weaknesses & leading men to death)?
The Laws that a converted Israel would receive, would no longer be as those formerly written on stone, but now 'in fleshy tables of the heart' ( 2 Corinthians 3:3). The Old has decayed and vanished away, only because of Jesus & His institution of the New Covenant. Let us not abide by things that are from the old economy, as even now, priests still wear religious garb & mitres, with their incense lamps as did the Jewish priests of old, rather to embrace what God's Spirit has for us in our hearts & lives, never leading us into condemnation.
As for your reference to Matthew 12:36-42, I'm not going to debate that, for I believe as you do, in what Jesus said about His death & resurrection relating it to Jonah's entombment in the 'whale'. The issue is first with the references I gave earlier, viz Mark 16:1,2,9, with John 20:1 complementing it. If the two Marys came "very early in the morning on the first day of the week", & "it was still dark", that tells me that they had arrived at the sepulchre to anoint Jesus' Body before dawn broke on the first day of the week (Sunday). Yes, the Jewish Sunday started after sundown Sabbath, but it still was Sunday when morning broke. You stated: "The earliest they (the Marys) could come to the tomb and administer the spices was as Saturday ended that very evening and Sunday began to dawn, which occurs at SUNDOWN. So Mary came at sundown Saturday." If Saturday (Sabbath) ended in the evening, the dawn of Sunday was still 10-12 hours away; if a day dawns, it is when the sun begins to rise - the day cannot dawn straight after the sun sets the previous day. This shows that the women came up to 12 hours after the Sabbath Day ended (i.e. the next day, Sunday). So I don't get your timeline here.
And just a final personal, maybe rhetorical, question: do you consider yourself to be wholly subject to the New Covenant in Christ's Blood, or do you believe it is necessary to embrace both the Old & the New to be right before God?
Two covenants cannot run together!
This reminds me of Matthew 9:14-17.
John's disciples were Jews. They were still following the rules of Judaism and living under the obligations of the Old Covenant, with its ceremonial rituals and religious regulations, including fasting on certain days
Leviticus 16:29-31
Leviticus 23:32
Luke 18:12.
Jesus came to usher in the New and fulfillment of the Law and do away with the ( rituals and Foreshadowing ) ministry that veiled their Hearts.
There also is a Change in Priesthood!
Hebrews 7:11. If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Blessings.
Yes, Jesus is High Priest of the order of Melchizedek. He is the only intercessor between man and God. No man on earth holds any position higher than any other man and no man on earth sits in Jesus' stead or can absolve sin. No man is to take on the name Father in a religious fashion. There are only those who study and are on milk and others who are on meat. Then there are others who consume and/or share tainted word and still others who any and all reject religion outright. There are three major religious faction in the world. Islam, Christianity and Judaism. All three are in error and teach deceptive and/or contrary doctrine to Christ.
Judaism seeks to hold onto the Old Covenant which is done away with. Christianity seeks to replace the teaching of Christ with the doctrines of men and Islam seeks to rewrite the biblical narrative into their own false account. All three are called to Convert. If the Commandments of God are taken out of the way, there isn't anything to convert to. Jesus came to establish the law, not do away with it. What law? God's law. Jesus says if you want to enter into life keep the Commandments. They are not burdensome or difficult. This is what He demonstrated to us. Furthermore, before Abraham and Moses, there was also other ordinances that we know God instituted and meant to be kept. Unclean and Clean animals for example. God says He is Holy, we must be Holy too. He calls unclean animals an abomination. Noah was told to take 7 pair of clean animals onto the Ark. 2 pair of unclean. God established this ordinance. Noah was aware of what unclean and clean animals were. Likewise, Gods 10 Commandments also were established by God prior to the Covenant made with Abraham. Don't think that you can do abominable things or defraud God of what He Commands. There is no law against doing good and following God's law is good. Christ didn't remove God's law. He removed sin laws, days pertaining to them and sacrifice for them.
Thanks brother S. Spencer and for your further references. I certainly liked the Matthew 9:16,17 where our Lord essentially reminded John the Baptist's disciples that you can't mix the old with the new, or else the product desired would be lost & destroyed. As Jesus had now come, He came to bring in the new life (embedded in His Everlasting Covenant), that those who believe in Him for their salvation might be now clothed in His Righteousness (without any fragmentation or wear), and the Holy Spirit given to reign in redeemed hearts & lives. Calling upon the old garments & old wineskins now can only be detrimental & bring confusion to those wanting to live in the Spirit.
I also realize that much of biblical teaching, whether received in childhood or from the pulpit, can sometimes be superficial, thus more readily received. I am guilty of being one of those unfortunates. But after re-birth, my heart was set to really study the Scriptures for what they said in entirety with the Spirit's guidance & help, & not pander to what I was once fed. I found that most of those people were themselves not prepared or unable to go deeper into the Word, so they could only issue forth generalities: such as, we must obey the Ten Commandments as Christians, or other matters concerning the Triune Nature of God, or even His eternal Judgement. We must be prepared to look past the superficial or what is convenient & palatable, and look deeper, theologically/exegetically, into such important teachings. Onto Page 2.
That is why, when in a discussion such as this, I take all Scripture into account, ensuring the basic elements of the subject are foundational. I find that if the foundation is incorrect or wobbly, then whatever is built thereon will very likely totter over & crumble. So, even when I say that the Decalogue, or all of God's Commandments were given to Israel & no one else, I know that it will immediately raise eyebrows by those who believe (or, taught) otherwise. And that is why we then delve into the Word to learn further. So, even through extensive discussions we might never come to agreement (& this is most often the case), we at least have presented arguments in support of our beliefs, for our learning, understanding & for any other interested reader's benefit. So no Ego here, neither with you nor me, just bringing out the Word of God.
Yes, in the mind, it is nicer & more convenient to have a set of rules to follow & gauge one's standing before God by it. But if we study further, we find that the ministry of the Holy Spirit takes us far far deeper into God's requirements for holy living than what the Decalogue or any of the Laws given to Israel could ever do. So why do we then insist on holding onto the old cloth & old wineskins?; they're only good for us to see what the old life was once like, I'm sure. These are the questions I had to deal with early on in my Christian experience without the aid of anyone or even the internet - just sitting with God's Word. If I'm in error, a proper exegesis of the Scriptures would help us all greatly & not just beliefs carried over from the past. Blessings to you brother.
Mark 16:9-20
King James Version
9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
The comma is placed in the wrong spot. It should read thus;
9 Now when Jesus was risen; early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Notwithstanding; The women followed and watched Jesus placed into the tomb and the stone rolled in front of the door.
Scripture clearly tells us they placed Jesus body in the tomb in haste, because the sabbath drew on. It was so close to sabbath that the women would NOT have had time to prepare spices until after it was over. Doing so would have been a violation of the sabbath. They had to wait until Friday to buy and prepare spices, which was a lengthy process and since Jesus was already in the tomb, Friday was the only day they could do it.
Then, they again had to wait, because the weekly sabbath began at sundown Friday. They earliest they could come to the tomb and administer the spices was as Saturday ended that very evening and Sunday began to dawn, which occurs at SUNDOWN. So Mary came at sundown Saturday. Since a day is from sundown to sundown; it therefore would have been very early Sunday morning and still dark. Again, at sundown Saturday ended and Sunday began. For a day, the morning of a day in biblical terms doesn't coincide with our modern day view of how days begin and end. Mary in our modern definition would have actually came to the tomb Saturday night in our current reckoning and this is why it was still dark out when she did.
Matthew 12:39 Context
36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. 38Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here. 42The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
So now, do you think that Jesus said what he did in idle fashion?
Jonah 1:17
"Now the LORD had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights."
As for what you posted, it is a misnomer. A day starts at evening and ends at evening. There is a mistranslation in scripture. It's not as the sun began to rise ....it's as the new day began to dawn or spring forth, or up. Mary came to the tomb as Saturday ended and Sunday began, which was SUNSET. When a new day begins!
The following verse is a more accurate description and translation.
John 20:1
"The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."
Without debating the actually day of Christ's crucifixion (whether Wednesday, Thursday or Friday), the point here is if Jesus was resurrected on the Sabbath (the 7th day) then Sabbath-keepers might be emboldened to honor that day (i.e. in rest & worship). But if Jesus was resurrected on the Sunday (as the Scriptures tell us), then it shows that the Church was not bound to the Old Law but to the New Covenant, and was free to worship on any day. And Sunday, the Lord's Day, was set aside for these followers of Christ to gather together aligning with their Savior's resurrection & victory over sin & death.
The fact that the Church, in its infancy, still attended the synagogue ( Acts 2:46) is important, until the formation of 'house-type Churches' meeting on a Sunday, the first day of the week, of which we read in Acts 20:7,8 and 1 Corinthians 16:2.
The RCC admits that they changed the day of worship to Sunday. However, God never gave man the authority to do so. This change was not enacted by Christ. Nor was Christ resurrected on Sunday. People make these claims because they are ignorant of the other scriptures that help reveal these things. Many simply look at the scriptures surrounding the crucifixion timeline, never considering there is other scripture elsewhere that provide necessary keys to establishing that timeline correctly. So they err due to their ego driven ignorance, thinking they understand things when in reality they lack the wisdom and due diligence to discover these hidden things to reveal the mystery and importance of including those thing into the crucifixion narrative. There is a narrow path that is missed by a majority of people and most enter the broad path.
Thanks again for the reply, Woe. I have already shared why I believe the first day of the week was Jesus' resurrection day - and from the Scriptures given. And yes, I have received the evidence you have shared, & found it faulty in light of the Scriptures. Even 'God establishing the Sabbath Day at the close of Creation', is incorrect, as we only read that 'God rested (ceased) from His Work, blessed the seventh day and sanctified it (set it apart)' ( Genesis 2:1-3). But the Sabbath was only given at Mt Sinai to His people. If we say that Genesis 26:5 proves without doubt that the Laws & Sabbath remembrance was given to & observed by Abraham, then this belief must only be an assumption, since there is no Scripture to tell us what was given to Abraham. Even if I had to guess what Laws, commands & statutes were given to him, mine too would just be a guess - and that is the sort of thing I avoid most vehemently, as it only breeds error & simply adds fuel to those desperately searching for verses to support their position.
The only clear Scripture relating to Christ's resurrection on the first day of the week is found in Mark 16:9 (to which we have found disagreement previously). Maybe a Greek scholar can confirm how they understand that verse, (taken from my Lexicon), whether
'Anastas de proi prote sabbatou, ephane proton Maria te Magdalene..' is read better,
or Anastas de, proi prote sabbatou ephane proton Maria te Magdalene..' is better read? Maybe, that might help us further.
The RCC may have changed the day of worship, according to them I presume, but Church history informs us that the early Church fathers in general, believed that the First Day of the Week was the occasion to worship & commune together. The Didache (Teachings of the Apostles), Ignatius of Antioch (AD 110), Justin Martyr (AD 155), & John Chrysostom (AD 395), are a few who held that view. Cont'd on Page 2.
And the latter's (Chrysostom) Homilies on Galatians 2:17 is particularly telling, which I quote here:
"For though few are now circumcised, yet, by fasting and observing the sabbath with the Jews, they equally exclude themselves from grace... You have put on Christ, you have become a member of the Lord and been enrolled in the heavenly city, and you still grovel in the law [of Moses]? How is it possible for you to obtain the kingdom? Listen to Paul's words, that the observance of the law overthrows the gospel, and learn, if you will, how this comes to pass, and tremble, and shun this pitfall. Why do you keep the Sabbath and fast with the Jews? Is it that you fear the Law and abandonment of its letter? But you would not entertain this fear, did you not disparage faith as weak, and by itself powerless to save. A fear to omit the sabbath plainly shows that you fear the Law as still in force; and if the Law is needful, it is so as a whole, not in part, nor in one commandment only; and if as a whole, the righteousness which is by faith is little by little shut out. If you keep the sabbath, why not also be circumcised? And if circumcised, why not also offer sacrifices? If the Law is to be observed, it must be observed as a whole, or not at all."
Just forwarding the above, not only for the abolishing of the Law as pertaining to its currency post-Cross, but more particularly, that rejecting the Sabbath is not some new thing, but an observance by the early Church & those who belonged or taught since those days.
I hope you don't mind. Concerning the crucifixion and resurrection days, if we compare all the gospels, all four give the clearest truth.
In John 12:1-12, we learn that six days before Passover, Jesus visited the house of Mary, Martha, and Lazarus in Bethany. The following day, He rode into Jerusalem, five days before Passover. This event was significant because it coincided with the 10th of Nisan, the day the lambs were selected and held until the 14th when they would be sacrificed for Passover, the same time Jesus died on the cross, Exodus 12:1-14. These Passover lambs were eaten the night of the 15th the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread the day Israel went out of Egypt.
Sunday Matthew 21:1-17, Mark 11:1-11, Luke 19:28-22:7, and John 12:12-50.
Monday, Matthew 21:18-19 Mark 11:12-19 This was the 11th, four days before Passover the 2nd day of the week.
Tuesday, Matthew 21:20 to 26:2 Mark 11:20 to 14:2 This was the 12th, three days before Passover, the third day of the week.
Wednesday, Matthew 26:6-16 Mark 14:3-11 Luke 22:1-6 This was the 13th, and at sunset is Passover day the 14th. The Last Supper, the arrest, sent to Pilot, the crucifixion, and placed in the tomb were all on the 14th, Passover day. Friday would be the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
Jesus was in the tomb Thur. Day, Fri, Night, Fri. Day, Sat. Night, Sat. Day, Sun. Night, three days, and three nights. Jesus rose on the first day of the week and fulfilled the Feast of First Fruits, Leviticus 23:10-14 This coincides with what Jesus told Mary, touch me not, He had not ascended to His Father, John 20:17. The Feast of First Fruits as we see is on the first day after the Sabbath after Passover Day.
If Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, the women could have gone to the tomb on Friday because Friday is a preparation day for the weekly Sabbath.
God bless,
RLW
[Comment Removed]
Matthew 5:18,19. Jesus was speaking about obedience to the whole Law, not to what the Pharisees taught that some Laws were less important to others. And as those under the Law, Jesus taught that the whole Law was current until "all be fulfilled" (i.e. only Jesus could keep the Law perfectly & through His death & resurrection, fulfilled the Law, removed the curse, by being made a curse on our behalf). Once that curse that the Law brought was removed by His death, we are no longer under the Law which only brought death, but now receive the blessing of Abraham, receiving God's Promises to us, not by the keeping the Law, but by obedience to the Spirit by the exercise of faith ( Galatians 3:10-14, also Romans 8:2-4).
Yes, Jesus' death fulfilled all the sacrifices that Israel had to do year-by-year, and these sacrifices looked forward to God's Perfect once-for-all Sacrifice. But only by Jesus' death could the New Covenant be ushered in, the Old had to be abolished, or else the New could not take effect (you can't have two Covenants operating simultaneously). And the Old Covenant most certainly included the Ten Commandments & every Law that was given to Israel. Those who are in Christ no longer abide by a Law that only had condemnation & death as its end, but now we can live according to the ministry of the Holy Spirit Who gives Life & Power to know & abide by all of God's Commandments.
The following also adequately supports my position. However there are numerous other examples I could share, notwithstanding, Jesus Himself tells all men to keep God's 10 Commandments.
Many, many preachers teach falsity and lies. Some out of ignorance and others out of greed. Just as many listen to them and don't do their own due diligence to verify what they are told is truth.
James 2:18 Context
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Furthermore, I can show definitive proof using scripture that Jesus was not Crucified or buried on a Friday, nor did Jesus rise on Sunday. A Friday Crucifixion and Sunday Resurrection is given as the basis for most Sunday observing denominations in holding Sunday in regard rather than God's Commanded Sabbath. However they err in doing so and as I said, I can demonstrate using scripture why they err in this.
See here;
Exodus 34:28
"And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments."
Exodus 34 specifically says the words of the Covenant that was made with Abraham are God's Ten Commandments.
Then in Galatians we are show the difference between God's Law and those added due to sin, by men, the laws for sin were added 430 year later and were not part of the Covenant Law which is The Ten Commandments.
It's why Jesus says;
Matthew 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
See also;
Galatians Chapter 3
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
God's Ten Commandments remain in effect for all men.
Jesus tells all men to keep the Commandments of God. There is no Conversion if men reject them.
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
All those other laws are about punishments for breaking the ten commandments , punishments for sin . Humans created sin , God created love , indeed God is love .
Leviticus 19:29
"Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness."
The entire book of Hosea is about the Whoredom of Israel. The 10 lost tribes went into Assyria and played the harlot and are scattered among the nations, even today. Jesus established a New Covenant with all men. Jesus says He has two flocks. One is redeemed already. They came out of the graves. Jesus returns to collect from among the Gentiles the second flock. 2 Esdras 13 speaks about Hosea, calling him Osea. Verse 40 shows the lost 10 tribes Christ returns for. Verse 48, shows the other two. Christianity, like Old Covenant Israel also has whoredom and harlots under the New Covenant. God's Ten Commandment apply to both the Old and the New. Only the Saints are God's Children.
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