Luke 8:10 "And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand."
Mark 4:9-12 "And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."
Mark 4:33,34 "And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it. But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples."
Matthew 13:33,34 "All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world."
Daniel 12:4 "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."
Daniel 12:8,9 "And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end."
In the Bible, a PARABLE is an earthly story with a Spiritual meaning. Christ, God Himself, is the author of the entire Bible and He declares that "without a parable spoke He not".
Is not then every historical account in the Bible not only a literal account but also a HISTORICAL PARABLE teaching some aspect of the Gospel? ceremonial Law, lamb of God, book of Ruth, etc.?
I think so too . This explains why so many things from the Old Testament are also in the new . Have a look at Deuteronomy Ch 21 , how many things from it appear in the new Testament almost word for exact word .
The Bible is a whole and should be studied as such . Those that neglect the Old are missing out on increasing their faith enormously . When you find a pattern between the Old and New it's like finding a pearl of great price , a real treasure , all the more precious because you ( by the Will of God ) found it yourself , He Himself intervened in your studies and showed you something . No better feeling than that !
The Whole Bible is for us today. God's recounting of His dealings with Judea and Israel, while absolutely historically accurate, are also pictures of God's dealings with the churches and congregations throughout the Church Age. And particularly as we approach the end where God is opening up truth that has been hidden until our day as we read in the closing chapters of Daniel.
The Old Testament prophetic books, like Jeremiah, Isaiah, Hosea, Amos and others are today's newspaper.
To come to truth, requires God in His Mercy to open our Spiritual Ears to Hear as we search the scriptures, comparing spiritual things with spiritual, applying the biblical hermeneutic that God lays down in His Word. And not a hermeneutic that comes from the mind of man, which unfortunately has been the practice in the churches throughout the majority of the Church Age.
I agree . Humans like to try to figure things out through their own perspectives , their own so called intelligence .
The Bible is its own interpreter , God is not the author of confusion , we do that when we don't listen properly to His Word as whole and allow it to show us the Truth , His Truth . Not our interpretation of it based on our own perspectives and personalities and agendas . We have to put ourselves aside and just allow Him to guide us and bring us to Him at the pace that He chooses for us . We can do nothing of ourselves and we really need to believe that and understand what that really means in terms of our relationship with Him and His Son . Submission is the key but that is not something that comes easy to most of us .
I agree that Scripture is what we base any of our ideas concerning God, salvation, and humanity. So, it's important that we read and learn from Scripture constantly so that our understanding is rightly formed.
I do disagree with you in that I don't think that anyone can truly come to Scripture without perceptions and what one has learned in the past because of the type of moral beings that we are. We cannot put away our own understandings and come to the Scriptures with a blank slate. I think that this is impossible. But we can trust the Holy Spirit to teach and lead us through His sanctifying work in believers.
My thoughts on our approach to Scripture is that we should pray that we will be given properly formed doctrines that we learn from Scriptures AND from those who are more informed than we may be as they expound on Scriptures on specific chapters, verses, or teachings/doctrines mentioned in Scripture. God has appointed pastors and teachers in the church. And these are for our benefit to better understand God's Word and grow in our ability to correctly handle the Scriptures.
Solo-style approaches to discovering Bible truths has led to all kinds of aberrant teachings and false beliefs over the centuries. But when believers place themselves in an environment of fellow believers and those God appoints to teach us, we will make needed adjustments to our thinking about biblical things. We should definitely approach Scripture with proper reverence, respecting its authority in all it teaches and also pray for an openness to have the Holy Spirit bring changes to our thinking through the input of other believers and us checking what is said by others against Scriptures.
The church is the communion of saints and as a community of faith we are to be interactive with each other as we learn together what God is teaching in His Word.
I know that you may not agree with me on this matter and we can agree to disagree on this.
So , I'm aware that this ,my question to you , is definitly going to sound facetious . I'm really sorry about that because I don't mean or want it to sound facetious and it is a genuine question , and not just to you personally but to everyone on this site so please don't take it personally . Here goes.....
What part of God's Gospel of the Kingdom / Gospel of Salvation , whichever you prefer to call it , do you ( any one of us ) think that you ( or any one of us ) can explain better than God Himself does in the Bible ? ( His Word , that He has provided and preserved in order to help us to get closer to Him ) .
I could expand on this question but if I go any further with it I'm sure it won't get put up on the message board so , I won't expand or expound .
If you can , can you be very specific about which parts need your ( any of you ) clarifiction and explanation because it's not clear enough in the Bible .
Please don't be offended , this is a genuine question , the answers to which I am genuinely interested in .
Concerning your question about explaining any aspect of God's work in saving humanity, I don't think that God needs any of us to do anything to explain His Word as He is able to do just that with creating new revelation that expounds on what has already been revealed. But, He has chosen to speak in the final days through Jesus, as it says in Hebrews.
With that said, I do believe that God does use believers to help explain and synthesize what has been said in Scripture in a systematically organized way to gain from the various places in Scripture that address the same topic to more fully understand what God has revealed. I think that God has established the church through Jesus who will build it, protect it, and prevent the gates of hell from prevailing against it. And through the church He appointed apostles and prophets in the first century to spread the gospel and reveal what will happen in that century and over time as history passes. He appoints and equips pastors, teachers, to expound on Scripture and teach from Scripture and help other believers gain understanding of the precepts the Scriptures teach, and this ministry is ongoing in the church throughout the centuries until Christ's return.
First of all, I hope that you can understand that I will not address your question here today as I need to reflect on this so that I can give you the best response that I can.
Jackieboy, I have read recently in posts you have made to others your thinking on your interpretation on Bible passages being discussed. I believe you were speaking about who it is that searches the things of God, the mind of Christ , and believers. In your post, you did gave your understanding of the topic, just as I have done in my explanation of how I understand biblical ideas. Yet, you cam down on me for doing just what you did AND the you post to me criticizing me for going outside of what is spoken in Scripture when you did the very same thing.
I find it disingenuous and hypocritical for you to act this way towards me. I understand that we may differ in how we interpret Scriptures because we come from differing backgrounds and histories in our Christian walk. If you agreed with me, I doubt that you would have acted this way towards my posts. So I think it is really important for both of us to examine ourselves before God asking for Him to reveal to each of us our true motivations and also how we are to address topics on this forum. It is a place where people don't just quote Scripture verbatum, but share our understanding. Even though those of us here may not always agree, we are helped by the discussions we engage in because, as Scripture says, it is like iron sharpening iron. By sharing our thoughts and listening to others in Christian love, we are building each other up the most holy faith we have received from God to lead us in the way of Christ and in sharpening our understanding of what God has revealed in the life of Jesus, our Lord and in the Word He has delivered to believers through prophets, apostles, teachers, pastors to establish and also as the way Jesus builds His church.
We can keep talking about what we understand of Scriptures here. That is best.
I am very sorry , I seem to have hit a nerve and that wasn't my intention . I did not mean to provoke you , my question was genuine and you are of course , at liberty to not answer it .
Here are just a few scriptures that came into my mind after I read your reply to me .
Exodus Ch4 V 10-12 .
1st Samuel Ch 19 V 18-24 .
Isaiah Ch 50 V 2-9 and Ch 51 V 15+16 .
Jeremiah Ch 31 V 33 and Ch 32 V 27 .
Hebrews Ch 8 V 8-11 .
Luke Ch 2 V 42-52 and Ch 12 V 11+12 and Ch 21 V 12-15 and all of Ch 24 .
John Ch 6 V 29-44 and Ch 7 V 14-18 and Ch 8 V 38 + V 47 and all of Ch 14 .
Acts Ch 2 V 1-21 and Ch 4 V 13-20 .
2nd Corinthians Ch 1 V 12 .
2nd Peter Ch 1 V 19-21.
Proverbs Ch 3 V 5-7 .
Revelation Ch 22 V 18+19 .
Hope these are helpful to you in your understanding of how God is able to bring to Himself any of us , by His Power , Might and His Holy Spirit of Truth , without the help of any of us .
I read all of the Scriptures you gave me and I was thinking of how they relate to the topic of our discussion. it seems to me that you are chastising me for posting what I have learned from Scripture concerning God's Sovereign will and man's will. Instead of trying to assume your motive or reason for this, I would like to ask you to speak to me plainly about the point you are trying to make to me and why you think I am wrong in posting what I did.
Jackieboy80, I stand by my responses to you in several posts. I respect that you can post on this site how you interpret Scriptures as you have (as I mentioned) and I ask that you give to me the same respect to post how I understand Scripture and the doctrines it teaches to be fair. Are you wiling to not post another personal reflection, interpretation, understanding, or explanation of what you think a Scripture means on this site, as that would be doing just what I have been doing?
If you do not wish to read what I post, then do not read it. If you disagree with something I have said about a Scripture verse or teaching of Scripture, then tell me specifically what part of what I shared you disagree with me on and give your understanding of the topic. But I ask that you do not speak to me about it being wrong for me to share how I understand what the Scriptures teach. That is not respectful, I suggest that if you think it is wrong for people here to share in this way, then do not contribute your opinions on this forum or read what others share, but instead, use this site to only read the Scriptures without entering into conversations on what you read. That would demonstrate your integrity and commitment to your stance on this matter.
I do not say this to hurt you or out of anger, because neither of these are true. I just think your critique of me and my postings is not a right thing to do because your focus is on the matter that I choose to share my understanding of Scripture on this forum. Be kind.
I will be reading these Scriptures today and considering them in light of our conversation here. Thanks for your contribution to our discussion. If we focus on the topic or one another understanding of Scripture in our discussion instead of criticizing either of us for expounding or explaining why and how we understand Scriptures in our own words, I think that our conversations would honor God and the cause us to be conducive to the unity of the Spirit.
This forum is one of discussing as the tab "discussion" means. This site has the King James Bible for us to read for ourselves AND options for us to discuss the chapters/verses we read under each chapter we read. That is how I first came to this site: to read the King James Version. Upon reading I realized I could read what others have commented concerning that chapter. O was not aware of the expanded discussion forum this site offers until Chris responded to one of my comments and I wondered how did he read my comment, he directed me to this discussion forum. It has been three years this month since I began on this forum and I am very happy to have been led here. I have been blessed by the comments and interactions of others so much, learned so much, been challenged to reexamine my understanding of a Scripture or topic many times and have been helped in fine tuning the doctrines I hold based on Scripture.
I hope to converse with you more on this forum. It is important to be respectful of each others approaches to, understanding of, and expression of what Scriptures reveal to us from God.
Luke 8:10 "And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand."
Mark 4:9-12 "And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."
Mark 4:33,34 "And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it. But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples."
Matthew 13:33,34 "All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world."
Daniel 12:4 "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."
Daniel 12:8,9 "And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end."
In the Bible, a PARABLE is an earthly story with a Spiritual meaning. Christ, God Himself, is the author of the entire Bible and He declares that "without a parable spoke He not".
Is not then every historical account in the Bible not only a literal account but also a HISTORICAL PARABLE teaching some aspect of the Gospel? ceremonial Law, lamb of God, book of Ruth, etc.?
The Bible is a whole and should be studied as such . Those that neglect the Old are missing out on increasing their faith enormously . When you find a pattern between the Old and New it's like finding a pearl of great price , a real treasure , all the more precious because you ( by the Will of God ) found it yourself , He Himself intervened in your studies and showed you something . No better feeling than that !
The Old Testament prophetic books, like Jeremiah, Isaiah, Hosea, Amos and others are today's newspaper.
To come to truth, requires God in His Mercy to open our Spiritual Ears to Hear as we search the scriptures, comparing spiritual things with spiritual, applying the biblical hermeneutic that God lays down in His Word. And not a hermeneutic that comes from the mind of man, which unfortunately has been the practice in the churches throughout the majority of the Church Age.
The Bible is its own interpreter , God is not the author of confusion , we do that when we don't listen properly to His Word as whole and allow it to show us the Truth , His Truth . Not our interpretation of it based on our own perspectives and personalities and agendas . We have to put ourselves aside and just allow Him to guide us and bring us to Him at the pace that He chooses for us . We can do nothing of ourselves and we really need to believe that and understand what that really means in terms of our relationship with Him and His Son . Submission is the key but that is not something that comes easy to most of us .
Here is one example of you giving your opinion or understanding of a biblical topic.
Why would you think it is ok for you to do this and not me?
I agree that Scripture is what we base any of our ideas concerning God, salvation, and humanity. So, it's important that we read and learn from Scripture constantly so that our understanding is rightly formed.
I do disagree with you in that I don't think that anyone can truly come to Scripture without perceptions and what one has learned in the past because of the type of moral beings that we are. We cannot put away our own understandings and come to the Scriptures with a blank slate. I think that this is impossible. But we can trust the Holy Spirit to teach and lead us through His sanctifying work in believers.
My thoughts on our approach to Scripture is that we should pray that we will be given properly formed doctrines that we learn from Scriptures AND from those who are more informed than we may be as they expound on Scriptures on specific chapters, verses, or teachings/doctrines mentioned in Scripture. God has appointed pastors and teachers in the church. And these are for our benefit to better understand God's Word and grow in our ability to correctly handle the Scriptures.
Solo-style approaches to discovering Bible truths has led to all kinds of aberrant teachings and false beliefs over the centuries. But when believers place themselves in an environment of fellow believers and those God appoints to teach us, we will make needed adjustments to our thinking about biblical things. We should definitely approach Scripture with proper reverence, respecting its authority in all it teaches and also pray for an openness to have the Holy Spirit bring changes to our thinking through the input of other believers and us checking what is said by others against Scriptures.
The church is the communion of saints and as a community of faith we are to be interactive with each other as we learn together what God is teaching in His Word.
I know that you may not agree with me on this matter and we can agree to disagree on this.
What part of God's Gospel of the Kingdom / Gospel of Salvation , whichever you prefer to call it , do you ( any one of us ) think that you ( or any one of us ) can explain better than God Himself does in the Bible ? ( His Word , that He has provided and preserved in order to help us to get closer to Him ) .
I could expand on this question but if I go any further with it I'm sure it won't get put up on the message board so , I won't expand or expound .
If you can , can you be very specific about which parts need your ( any of you ) clarifiction and explanation because it's not clear enough in the Bible .
Please don't be offended , this is a genuine question , the answers to which I am genuinely interested in .
Concerning your question about explaining any aspect of God's work in saving humanity, I don't think that God needs any of us to do anything to explain His Word as He is able to do just that with creating new revelation that expounds on what has already been revealed. But, He has chosen to speak in the final days through Jesus, as it says in Hebrews.
With that said, I do believe that God does use believers to help explain and synthesize what has been said in Scripture in a systematically organized way to gain from the various places in Scripture that address the same topic to more fully understand what God has revealed. I think that God has established the church through Jesus who will build it, protect it, and prevent the gates of hell from prevailing against it. And through the church He appointed apostles and prophets in the first century to spread the gospel and reveal what will happen in that century and over time as history passes. He appoints and equips pastors, teachers, to expound on Scripture and teach from Scripture and help other believers gain understanding of the precepts the Scriptures teach, and this ministry is ongoing in the church throughout the centuries until Christ's return.
I hope this answers your question.
First of all, I hope that you can understand that I will not address your question here today as I need to reflect on this so that I can give you the best response that I can.
Jackieboy, I have read recently in posts you have made to others your thinking on your interpretation on Bible passages being discussed. I believe you were speaking about who it is that searches the things of God, the mind of Christ , and believers. In your post, you did gave your understanding of the topic, just as I have done in my explanation of how I understand biblical ideas. Yet, you cam down on me for doing just what you did AND the you post to me criticizing me for going outside of what is spoken in Scripture when you did the very same thing.
I find it disingenuous and hypocritical for you to act this way towards me. I understand that we may differ in how we interpret Scriptures because we come from differing backgrounds and histories in our Christian walk. If you agreed with me, I doubt that you would have acted this way towards my posts. So I think it is really important for both of us to examine ourselves before God asking for Him to reveal to each of us our true motivations and also how we are to address topics on this forum. It is a place where people don't just quote Scripture verbatum, but share our understanding. Even though those of us here may not always agree, we are helped by the discussions we engage in because, as Scripture says, it is like iron sharpening iron. By sharing our thoughts and listening to others in Christian love, we are building each other up the most holy faith we have received from God to lead us in the way of Christ and in sharpening our understanding of what God has revealed in the life of Jesus, our Lord and in the Word He has delivered to believers through prophets, apostles, teachers, pastors to establish and also as the way Jesus builds His church.
We can keep talking about what we understand of Scriptures here. That is best.
Exodus Ch4 V 10-12 .
1st Samuel Ch 19 V 18-24 .
Isaiah Ch 50 V 2-9 and Ch 51 V 15+16 .
Jeremiah Ch 31 V 33 and Ch 32 V 27 .
Hebrews Ch 8 V 8-11 .
Luke Ch 2 V 42-52 and Ch 12 V 11+12 and Ch 21 V 12-15 and all of Ch 24 .
John Ch 6 V 29-44 and Ch 7 V 14-18 and Ch 8 V 38 + V 47 and all of Ch 14 .
Acts Ch 2 V 1-21 and Ch 4 V 13-20 .
2nd Corinthians Ch 1 V 12 .
2nd Peter Ch 1 V 19-21.
Proverbs Ch 3 V 5-7 .
Revelation Ch 22 V 18+19 .
Hope these are helpful to you in your understanding of how God is able to bring to Himself any of us , by His Power , Might and His Holy Spirit of Truth , without the help of any of us .
I read all of the Scriptures you gave me and I was thinking of how they relate to the topic of our discussion. it seems to me that you are chastising me for posting what I have learned from Scripture concerning God's Sovereign will and man's will. Instead of trying to assume your motive or reason for this, I would like to ask you to speak to me plainly about the point you are trying to make to me and why you think I am wrong in posting what I did.
Jackieboy80, I stand by my responses to you in several posts. I respect that you can post on this site how you interpret Scriptures as you have (as I mentioned) and I ask that you give to me the same respect to post how I understand Scripture and the doctrines it teaches to be fair. Are you wiling to not post another personal reflection, interpretation, understanding, or explanation of what you think a Scripture means on this site, as that would be doing just what I have been doing?
If you do not wish to read what I post, then do not read it. If you disagree with something I have said about a Scripture verse or teaching of Scripture, then tell me specifically what part of what I shared you disagree with me on and give your understanding of the topic. But I ask that you do not speak to me about it being wrong for me to share how I understand what the Scriptures teach. That is not respectful, I suggest that if you think it is wrong for people here to share in this way, then do not contribute your opinions on this forum or read what others share, but instead, use this site to only read the Scriptures without entering into conversations on what you read. That would demonstrate your integrity and commitment to your stance on this matter.
I do not say this to hurt you or out of anger, because neither of these are true. I just think your critique of me and my postings is not a right thing to do because your focus is on the matter that I choose to share my understanding of Scripture on this forum. Be kind.
I will be reading these Scriptures today and considering them in light of our conversation here. Thanks for your contribution to our discussion. If we focus on the topic or one another understanding of Scripture in our discussion instead of criticizing either of us for expounding or explaining why and how we understand Scriptures in our own words, I think that our conversations would honor God and the cause us to be conducive to the unity of the Spirit.
This forum is one of discussing as the tab "discussion" means. This site has the King James Bible for us to read for ourselves AND options for us to discuss the chapters/verses we read under each chapter we read. That is how I first came to this site: to read the King James Version. Upon reading I realized I could read what others have commented concerning that chapter. O was not aware of the expanded discussion forum this site offers until Chris responded to one of my comments and I wondered how did he read my comment, he directed me to this discussion forum. It has been three years this month since I began on this forum and I am very happy to have been led here. I have been blessed by the comments and interactions of others so much, learned so much, been challenged to reexamine my understanding of a Scripture or topic many times and have been helped in fine tuning the doctrines I hold based on Scripture.
I hope to converse with you more on this forum. It is important to be respectful of each others approaches to, understanding of, and expression of what Scriptures reveal to us from God.
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