I like the way Gigi put it concerning Genesis 1:31.
"He made everything just the way he planned it".
Therefore he called it Good.
Including Satan and the Angels.
Good doesn't express behavior in these passages. It's accomplishing what was intended.
There is only one Good and that's God.
Adam shame and trying to cover his nakedness after his eyes were open to receive knowledge of Good and Evil testifies that he had a sense of awareness of his depravity and vulnerability. Not nudity.
If nudity being wrong was all he got out of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and that was sinful and valid then he wasn't made perfect. He didn't take clothes off, He was born Naked.
Adam hid himself from God because when his eyes were opened he saw himself with the knowledge he received from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
This Knowledge revealed to him that he wasn't Good. He's now realizes he's vulnerable.
Here's what he said; I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
This is in line with what nakedness means throughout the scripture.
Adam was a natural man, A empty vessel and naked.
How do you define sinless nature? Isn't it "someone's NATURAL reaction to not sin.
How could one with a sinless nature sin?
Or one with a sinful nature "NOT" sin?
I would define Adam as one being imperfect and one that cannot please God.
There is nothing written of him to determine what he was like before the fall.
However he's flesh and there's lust in the flesh and has no ability it or desire to please God.
When Adam sinned it was his imperfections manifesting itself.
Adam and Eve eyes were opened after they ate of the fruit. They were now able to see things that were there that they never seen before!
Is it possible that without the knowledge of good and evil sin is not imputed as we see in Romans 5:12-13 and John 9:41.
Let's take a closer look at Romans 5, being that it seems relevant to our discussion.
Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: BUT SIN IS NOT IMPUTED WHEN THERE IS NO LAW. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
What do we inherit from Adam? Just his offence?
What about his nature before and after the fall?
I'm having trouble presenting this so let me give an example by way of a hypothetical scenario.
Let's imagine Adam and Eve had children before the fall, (eating of the fruit of the tree) and also children afterwards.
Would all of them inherit Adam's offense or just those born afterwards?
I believe they all would because Adam had a nature that was bound to fall.
One that was subject to sin.
As for Christ We've been over Matthew 4:1-11.
That wasn't a test to see if he would sin but rather to prove him.
It was to show he was who the Scripture say he was.
The Son of God.
And you are referring to Hebrews 4:15. My understanding of that is Christ "being in the flesh" he was able to relate to our testing but WASN'T ABLE to Succumb to the testing and sin.
I am sorry if we do not agree, and sorry for the delayed reply.
My understanding, we have two trees, and two Adams one tree associated with the first Adam and the other with the last Adam. Did God know what the first Adam would do? Yes. Does that mean Adam was not made perfect without sin? No. Everything before the first day of creation until the new earth and the new heaven was and is in God's plan. Can we comprehend that? No. Can we know how God will judge anyone before the law or all the people after the law but never heard the commands of God or of Him sending His Son to die for us? Revelation 20:11-15
Two men walked this earth that did not have an earthly father the first and the last Adam. The first was disobedient and the second was obedient unto death. Three people came into the world without a sinful nature Adam, Eve, and Jesus. There was no sin in the first Adam until he disobeyed God, the curse was not given to him or mankind before Adam disobeyed and sinned.
In Scripture, we are told Jesus was tempted the same as we are, Hebrews 4:15 "yet without sin".
Jesus had a will of His own Luke 22:42 Jesus was not just a man His Father was God, He could be tempted, and He was obedient to the Father. If Jesus was unable to disobey and unable to sin if He chose to, how can we say He was tempted and how could He fulfill and overcome the curse of death, and the law and He/Jesus the Son of God die for our sins? Would Satan accept anything other than a man fulfilling the law and taking away his power of death Hebrews 2:14?
God is incapable of sin, the curse was caused by man and placed on man, and only by man, the only begotten Son of God, a man whose Father was God, could fulfill the prophecies and the law and break the curse by a perfect life. 1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, the first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Jesus by His perfect life became a life-giving spirit after being resurrected from death by God. Through Jesus's perfect life and only Him, those who have faith in Him can receive this gift of life.
I, too, think that the wilderness interactions of Jesus and Satan were not so much of a test for Jesus to sin, but a declaration of Jesus proving He IS the divine Son of God and therefore, Satan's governor, ruler, and authority. Jesus knew going into the temptation that He would not sin just as He had not sinned in all the temptations He had faced with growing up and in His early adulthood. He knew who He was, even at the age of 12. He knew He could not sin, but His humanity could be tempted and, as the divine Son was the only Person in Jesus, having both a divine and human nature, but only one Person, He knew He knew He would obey His Father and not sin. He also knew what the devil was going to tempt Him with, as He was divine and omniscient. He also knew He would triumph over Satan in this encounter and Satan would leave Him as a defeated foe.
The Scriptures He quoted to Satan are the words He inspired to be written by Moses, David, and the prophets. He is he author of all Scriptures, so He was quoting these Scriptures not just to defend against the temptation and not just to show honor to His Father, but to show that He is to be honored as His Father is honored, too. The devil was not to think that physical things can override the nourishment of Scripture spoken into existence by Jesus, nor was the devil to test God, whether the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, nor was the devil to worship anyone but the true God, who stood before him in the wilderness; Jesus being God int he flesh and the fullness of the Father, Holy Spirit, and Son dwelled in Him in perfection.
Thanks for bringing this up. Sometimes we think of Jesus as being lower than the Father or lesser, but He is true God just as the Father and Holy Spirit. This kind of segways into my next post on who God is: He is Victor!
I like the way Gigi put it concerning Genesis 1:31.
"He made everything just the way he planned it".
Therefore he called it Good.
Including Satan and the Angels.
Good doesn't express behavior in these passages. It's accomplishing what was intended.
There is only one Good and that's God.
Adam shame and trying to cover his nakedness after his eyes were open to receive knowledge of Good and Evil testifies that he had a sense of awareness of his depravity and vulnerability. Not nudity.
If nudity being wrong was all he got out of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and that was sinful and valid then he wasn't made perfect. He didn't take clothes off, He was born Naked.
Adam hid himself from God because when his eyes were opened he saw himself with the knowledge he received from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
This Knowledge revealed to him that he wasn't Good. He's now realizes he's vulnerable.
Here's what he said; I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
This is in line with what nakedness means throughout the scripture.
Adam was a natural man, A empty vessel and naked.
How do you define sinless nature? Isn't it "someone's NATURAL reaction to not sin.
How could one with a sinless nature sin?
Or one with a sinful nature "NOT" sin?
I would define Adam as one being imperfect and one that cannot please God.
There is nothing written of him to determine what he was like before the fall.
However he's flesh and there's lust in the flesh and has no ability it or desire to please God.
See part 2.
When Adam sinned it was his imperfections manifesting itself.
Adam and Eve eyes were opened after they ate of the fruit. They were now able to see things that were there that they never seen before!
Is it possible that without the knowledge of good and evil sin is not imputed as we see in Romans 5:12-13 and John 9:41.
Let's take a closer look at Romans 5, being that it seems relevant to our discussion.
Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: BUT SIN IS NOT IMPUTED WHEN THERE IS NO LAW. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
What do we inherit from Adam? Just his offence?
What about his nature before and after the fall?
I'm having trouble presenting this so let me give an example by way of a hypothetical scenario.
Let's imagine Adam and Eve had children before the fall, (eating of the fruit of the tree) and also children afterwards.
Would all of them inherit Adam's offense or just those born afterwards?
I believe they all would because Adam had a nature that was bound to fall.
One that was subject to sin.
As for Christ We've been over Matthew 4:1-11.
That wasn't a test to see if he would sin but rather to prove him.
It was to show he was who the Scripture say he was.
The Son of God.
And you are referring to Hebrews 4:15. My understanding of that is Christ "being in the flesh" he was able to relate to our testing but WASN'T ABLE to Succumb to the testing and sin.
God bless.
I am sorry if we do not agree, and sorry for the delayed reply.
My understanding, we have two trees, and two Adams one tree associated with the first Adam and the other with the last Adam. Did God know what the first Adam would do? Yes. Does that mean Adam was not made perfect without sin? No. Everything before the first day of creation until the new earth and the new heaven was and is in God's plan. Can we comprehend that? No. Can we know how God will judge anyone before the law or all the people after the law but never heard the commands of God or of Him sending His Son to die for us? Revelation 20:11-15
Two men walked this earth that did not have an earthly father the first and the last Adam. The first was disobedient and the second was obedient unto death. Three people came into the world without a sinful nature Adam, Eve, and Jesus. There was no sin in the first Adam until he disobeyed God, the curse was not given to him or mankind before Adam disobeyed and sinned.
In Scripture, we are told Jesus was tempted the same as we are, Hebrews 4:15 "yet without sin".
Jesus had a will of His own Luke 22:42 Jesus was not just a man His Father was God, He could be tempted, and He was obedient to the Father. If Jesus was unable to disobey and unable to sin if He chose to, how can we say He was tempted and how could He fulfill and overcome the curse of death, and the law and He/Jesus the Son of God die for our sins? Would Satan accept anything other than a man fulfilling the law and taking away his power of death Hebrews 2:14?
God bless,
RLW
Thanks for replying.
Man can't overcome the curse of death. Only a Life-giving spirit can do that.
Thank and God bless.
God is incapable of sin, the curse was caused by man and placed on man, and only by man, the only begotten Son of God, a man whose Father was God, could fulfill the prophecies and the law and break the curse by a perfect life. 1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, the first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Jesus by His perfect life became a life-giving spirit after being resurrected from death by God. Through Jesus's perfect life and only Him, those who have faith in Him can receive this gift of life.
God bless,
RLW
I, too, think that the wilderness interactions of Jesus and Satan were not so much of a test for Jesus to sin, but a declaration of Jesus proving He IS the divine Son of God and therefore, Satan's governor, ruler, and authority. Jesus knew going into the temptation that He would not sin just as He had not sinned in all the temptations He had faced with growing up and in His early adulthood. He knew who He was, even at the age of 12. He knew He could not sin, but His humanity could be tempted and, as the divine Son was the only Person in Jesus, having both a divine and human nature, but only one Person, He knew He knew He would obey His Father and not sin. He also knew what the devil was going to tempt Him with, as He was divine and omniscient. He also knew He would triumph over Satan in this encounter and Satan would leave Him as a defeated foe.
The Scriptures He quoted to Satan are the words He inspired to be written by Moses, David, and the prophets. He is he author of all Scriptures, so He was quoting these Scriptures not just to defend against the temptation and not just to show honor to His Father, but to show that He is to be honored as His Father is honored, too. The devil was not to think that physical things can override the nourishment of Scripture spoken into existence by Jesus, nor was the devil to test God, whether the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit, nor was the devil to worship anyone but the true God, who stood before him in the wilderness; Jesus being God int he flesh and the fullness of the Father, Holy Spirit, and Son dwelled in Him in perfection.
Thanks for bringing this up. Sometimes we think of Jesus as being lower than the Father or lesser, but He is true God just as the Father and Holy Spirit. This kind of segways into my next post on who God is: He is Victor!
Every answer the Lord gave Satan was scripture!
God bless you.
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