Part three. Why did God die for my sins as his enemy?
In my last post I started to discuss Peter in particular; although at the time all the disciples were arguing about the anointing of Christ as being wasteful spending on the part of the woman who performed this act. I have brought up the sobering reality that I can't find one passage in the Gospels discussing any of the Disciples in prayer despite numerous references to Christ getting up before dawn and at times praying all night before momentous events such as picking His disciples. Let that sink in; even looking at the prophets of the Old Testament and their doubts fears and struggles we see much prayer. On one hand we see the unique situation of having our Lord in the flesh and the confidence of protection as the Master and teacher watched over His flock at the time. The flipside is they didn't have His back in regard to His everyday struggles and the constant understanding of His upcoming suffering on the cross which was ever approaching as His destiny. No doubt much of their attitude was also due to their expectations of the Kingdom of God to immediately come which culminated in the triumphal entry on the donkey and the praise of the masses one week before His crucifixion.
The Lord had to open the minds of the Jewish disciples to His role to reach the Gentiles eventually as was prophesied in Isaiah. This was demonstrated in the great faith of the Syrophonecian woman in Mark 7 as well as the Roman centurion. There was also the woman at the well who was half Jewish. It wasn't until later in the book of Acts when the Gospel was as a whole taken beyond Israel; and that was done by Peter and Paul around the same time. The people of Israel as a whole as prophesied would reject the Messiah and justify themselves as sons of Abraham in the flesh which was of no value.
As a believer today we can only see His holiness and compare it to our own hearts and praise Him for His atoning sacrifice.
This is not to debate; If you do not want to answer, maybe someone else will, if not that's ok. How can it be said God who cannot die died for our sins? Does not Scripture say God did not give Himself but His only begotten Son? Jesus was the final and complete sacrifice for our sins, and the death of Christ as our substitute is the heart of the gospel.
When God formed the first Adam, He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and Adam became a living soul/being, and without this breath/spirit of life that goes back to God when we die, whether we have done good or evil, we are a dead soul/being until we are resurrected and this is when we receive our reward whether to eternal life with Him or the second death in the lake of fire.
Jesus did not have any authority until His Father gave it to Him when Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit on the banks of the river Jordan. Jesus was given to die for us, Jesus was given power and authority, Jesus was given the Holy Spirit without measure, Jesus was given the words He said, all Jesus did was the will of the Father, not His. Jesus even said His Father was His God and His Father was greater than He.
If we say God died for our sins, do we make Jesus's sacrifice and death a charade, and not the truth because it is something God is incapable of doing, is to die.
God bless us and let His Spirit show us the truth regardless of the understanding we have now. Matthew 15:9 As Jesus said all things that the Father hath has been given to Him John 16:13-15.
Luke 2:51-52 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
There are a few brief points I would make to your inquiry.
There is no such thing as "soul sleep". This is clearly seen with the very real story of Lazarus and the rich man; but also could be pointed out from Christ's time in the grave where corruption could not overtake him as prophesied in David's Psalm someplace.
We also see that Jesus did indeed have the authority to teach in the synagogues with reasoning beyond His years causing men to marvel and He stated then that He was doing the "Fathers' business".
As a member of the Godhead Jesus was fully God and fully man but not in the same position and role as the Father. These exchanges of heavenly glory to be humbled as a man and then highly exalted were a blip in time of the timeless Creator; Jesus Himself. He was able to come out of eternity past; appear in one time and place in the destined role as substitutionary atonement and sacrifice; then enter back into eternal glory. All of His humbling was for our sake; He came and lived a perfect life trusting only in the Spirit which is the only way He could represent man; hence we in theory also ought to be perfect and sinless but of course none of us do. Then He had to die and take on the sin of men. His soul was at no point dead as the "it is finished" demonstrates the minute he breathed His last the victory was won. His soul was proclaiming the truth to the lost in hades after that and He also released the captives (souls) of the O.T. saints; also very much alive in the pleasant part of hades at the time along with the wicked who remain there until this day for the final judgment. Many at the time came out of their graves at the Resurrection as the "first of the firstfruits".
If God didn't through the Son overcome death we couldn't live eternally with Him in heaven. He bears the marks of His crucifixion and still appears more or less as He did when on earth in His resurrected body; but the fullness of glory brings the reaction in Rev. 1.
Thank you for your reply, many consider this subject non-discussable.
As for Luke 15 and 16, if one takes this as a real story that would mean when we die, we go to Hades, the saved go to the good side and the lost are in the flames. I am sorry I do not see that in Scripture, this chapter is parables given to the Pharisees and scribes for their murmuring and their unrighteous love of mammon/money and their neglect of the true riches.
I understand you and others do not believe we sleep in death until the resurrection. The Greek philosophy of the meaning of death is the separation of the soul from the body, and our soul is immortal which was introduced into the Roman Church this is not from Scripture our soul can die, Daniel 12:21 Thessalonians 4:14, and many more.
The word Godhead is in the KJV 3 times, three different Greek words meaning Divine, Divinity, and Deity changed to Godhead in the 16th Century, which can be misleading. My understanding is Jesus's victory was not won until God raised Jesus from death. "His soul was proclaiming the truth to the lost in hades" I suppose this is from 1 Peter 3:18-20, nowhere does this say Jesus was in Hades, these are people before the flood and it also says it was after He was quickened by the Spirit, so He was not in the grave.
Ephesians 4:8 Jesus led captivity captive that is those in captivity of sin captive to Himself, not OT saints from the grave. If the OT saints were resurrected when He was why would He leave David, Acts 2:29-34 the Firstfruits will not be raised until Jesus returns.
In John 8:28 "When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he" Matthew 27:50-54 is the fulfillment. Jesus was in and out of consciousness on the cross when He cried out the word resurrection is a Greek word meaning waking up, all the things in 51-53 happened when Jesus died, the saints did not go to heaven they went into Jerusalem and appeared to many.
In my last post I started to discuss Peter in particular; although at the time all the disciples were arguing about the anointing of Christ as being wasteful spending on the part of the woman who performed this act. I have brought up the sobering reality that I can't find one passage in the Gospels discussing any of the Disciples in prayer despite numerous references to Christ getting up before dawn and at times praying all night before momentous events such as picking His disciples. Let that sink in; even looking at the prophets of the Old Testament and their doubts fears and struggles we see much prayer. On one hand we see the unique situation of having our Lord in the flesh and the confidence of protection as the Master and teacher watched over His flock at the time. The flipside is they didn't have His back in regard to His everyday struggles and the constant understanding of His upcoming suffering on the cross which was ever approaching as His destiny. No doubt much of their attitude was also due to their expectations of the Kingdom of God to immediately come which culminated in the triumphal entry on the donkey and the praise of the masses one week before His crucifixion.
The Lord had to open the minds of the Jewish disciples to His role to reach the Gentiles eventually as was prophesied in Isaiah. This was demonstrated in the great faith of the Syrophonecian woman in Mark 7 as well as the Roman centurion. There was also the woman at the well who was half Jewish. It wasn't until later in the book of Acts when the Gospel was as a whole taken beyond Israel; and that was done by Peter and Paul around the same time. The people of Israel as a whole as prophesied would reject the Messiah and justify themselves as sons of Abraham in the flesh which was of no value.
As a believer today we can only see His holiness and compare it to our own hearts and praise Him for His atoning sacrifice.
This is not to debate; If you do not want to answer, maybe someone else will, if not that's ok. How can it be said God who cannot die died for our sins? Does not Scripture say God did not give Himself but His only begotten Son? Jesus was the final and complete sacrifice for our sins, and the death of Christ as our substitute is the heart of the gospel.
When God formed the first Adam, He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and Adam became a living soul/being, and without this breath/spirit of life that goes back to God when we die, whether we have done good or evil, we are a dead soul/being until we are resurrected and this is when we receive our reward whether to eternal life with Him or the second death in the lake of fire.
Jesus did not have any authority until His Father gave it to Him when Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit on the banks of the river Jordan. Jesus was given to die for us, Jesus was given power and authority, Jesus was given the Holy Spirit without measure, Jesus was given the words He said, all Jesus did was the will of the Father, not His. Jesus even said His Father was His God and His Father was greater than He.
If we say God died for our sins, do we make Jesus's sacrifice and death a charade, and not the truth because it is something God is incapable of doing, is to die.
God bless us and let His Spirit show us the truth regardless of the understanding we have now. Matthew 15:9 As Jesus said all things that the Father hath has been given to Him John 16:13-15.
RLW
Luke 2:51-52 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart. 52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
God bless,
RLW
There is no such thing as "soul sleep". This is clearly seen with the very real story of Lazarus and the rich man; but also could be pointed out from Christ's time in the grave where corruption could not overtake him as prophesied in David's Psalm someplace.
We also see that Jesus did indeed have the authority to teach in the synagogues with reasoning beyond His years causing men to marvel and He stated then that He was doing the "Fathers' business".
As a member of the Godhead Jesus was fully God and fully man but not in the same position and role as the Father. These exchanges of heavenly glory to be humbled as a man and then highly exalted were a blip in time of the timeless Creator; Jesus Himself. He was able to come out of eternity past; appear in one time and place in the destined role as substitutionary atonement and sacrifice; then enter back into eternal glory. All of His humbling was for our sake; He came and lived a perfect life trusting only in the Spirit which is the only way He could represent man; hence we in theory also ought to be perfect and sinless but of course none of us do. Then He had to die and take on the sin of men. His soul was at no point dead as the "it is finished" demonstrates the minute he breathed His last the victory was won. His soul was proclaiming the truth to the lost in hades after that and He also released the captives (souls) of the O.T. saints; also very much alive in the pleasant part of hades at the time along with the wicked who remain there until this day for the final judgment. Many at the time came out of their graves at the Resurrection as the "first of the firstfruits".
If God didn't through the Son overcome death we couldn't live eternally with Him in heaven. He bears the marks of His crucifixion and still appears more or less as He did when on earth in His resurrected body; but the fullness of glory brings the reaction in Rev. 1.
Thank you for your reply, many consider this subject non-discussable.
As for Luke 15 and 16, if one takes this as a real story that would mean when we die, we go to Hades, the saved go to the good side and the lost are in the flames. I am sorry I do not see that in Scripture, this chapter is parables given to the Pharisees and scribes for their murmuring and their unrighteous love of mammon/money and their neglect of the true riches.
I understand you and others do not believe we sleep in death until the resurrection. The Greek philosophy of the meaning of death is the separation of the soul from the body, and our soul is immortal which was introduced into the Roman Church this is not from Scripture our soul can die, Daniel 12:2 1 Thessalonians 4:14, and many more.
The word Godhead is in the KJV 3 times, three different Greek words meaning Divine, Divinity, and Deity changed to Godhead in the 16th Century, which can be misleading. My understanding is Jesus's victory was not won until God raised Jesus from death. "His soul was proclaiming the truth to the lost in hades" I suppose this is from 1 Peter 3:18-20, nowhere does this say Jesus was in Hades, these are people before the flood and it also says it was after He was quickened by the Spirit, so He was not in the grave.
Ephesians 4:8 Jesus led captivity captive that is those in captivity of sin captive to Himself, not OT saints from the grave. If the OT saints were resurrected when He was why would He leave David, Acts 2:29-34 the Firstfruits will not be raised until Jesus returns.
In John 8:28 "When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he" Matthew 27:50-54 is the fulfillment. Jesus was in and out of consciousness on the cross when He cried out the word resurrection is a Greek word meaning waking up, all the things in 51-53 happened when Jesus died, the saints did not go to heaven they went into Jerusalem and appeared to many.
God bless,
RLW
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