Look at the Edomites today, the descendants of Ishmael. Do they turn to Israel and say "You're God's chosen people, praise God! And we're your neighbors. In fact, we're relatives. Praise God again. Let's just serve God together."
Isn't that what they are doing in the Middle East? No! There is hatred and violence against Israel and some of the Arab nations and the people in the Arab nations don't know why, but it's just "the way they do things!" It's really rebellion against God's choice. God didn't make them that way.
So, Verse 29 says "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son."
Because I am in Christ, I have been predestined by God to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. That is, the head of the body of Christ, as He is.
That was an enlightening lesson on the topic of predestination.
I must admit, I didn't quite have that right
I have heard a teaching similar to that several years ago.
They used the scenario of a city bus that took the same route every day. It was predestined.
All you had to do is get on that bus.
It was your choice.
It is a free ride, you can't pay for it.
It is the "WAY" to point B from point A.
It is the WAY. God's way!
"THE WAY" is what is elected by God!
Paralleling with Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
IT'S ONLY SAVED PEOPLE GETTING ON THAT BUS! and at the end of the ride is an inheritance.
What a great analogy! The inheritance is what has been predetermined for those who receive Christ. For those who reject Him, their fate has also been predetermined. It is man who chooses to receive or reject the things of God. Romans 9:11 (which you have shared) is a great verse. Thanks for that one. It says (For the children being not yet born). So, they hadn't even been born yet. But secondly, we notice what it says: Neither having done any good or evil.
And then thirdly, the purpose: The reason why God made His choice between Jacob and Esau, before they were born (without them having done good or evil), it is so that the purpose of God could be according to election (His choice), and it might stand, not of works, but of the one who calls;
So, it didn't have anything to do with Jacob and Esau as to who they were, what kind of people they were, whether they were good or evil, it had nothing to do with works or with man. It had to do with God's choice.
Before the foundation of the world God predetermined that he would destroy sinful man from the face of the earth, and conform them to the IMAGE of his SON.
Matthew 25:34 .... Come, ye blessed of the Father, INHERIT the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
He chose the cross as his instrument.
He was going to do this ONLY ONCE.
In the fullness of time God sent his SON to take all the wrath of God for mankind, not to take the place of mankind, mankind had to also died on that cross.
Three days latter, to fulfill God's words, God resurrected CHRIST, and ALL mankind was resurrected as HEIRS OF CHRIST, his IMAGE, as he is the IMAGE of the Father.
He came to fulfill all the scriptures that were written about HIM, the kingdom of God.
There is more than enough of his speaking to the multitudes to come to the conclusion what his death and resurrection would accomplish: man becoming HIS IMAGE.
John 17:21 That they ALL may be ONE; as thou, Father, art IN ME, and I IN THEE, that they may be ONE IN US; that the world may believe thou has sent me.
Mark 10:8 And they twain, shall be ONE FLESH: so then they are no more twain but ONE FLESH.
Ephesians 2:15 ..... for to make in himself of twain ONE NEW MAN ......
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, IS IT NOT WRITTEN in your law, I SAID,Ye are gods?
Psalms 82:6 I have said: Ye are gods; and ALL OF YOU the children of the most high.
Psalms 82:7 But ye shall DIE LIKE MEN, and fall like one of the princes (Satan).
This was fulfilled on the Cross of Christ.
Isaiah 41:23 Shew the thing that are TO COME HEREAFTER, that we may know ye are gods ......
Thank you for taking the time to read through my lengthy post. I have read through what you sent to me but I am struggling to see how this adds to or fits with what I presented concerning predestination? Am I missing something here?
I have been reading your posts over the past week, and your response to my message on predestination seems to fit more closely with the things you have been sharing over the past week than they do with what I just posted about predestination, especially with the verses you have provided. Again, maybe I missing something?
Concerning salvation, what are your thoughts on predestination? Does God "predetermine" who will receive eternal salvation and who will receive eternal condemnation?
Thanks brother Jesse for explaining in detail the matter of 'Predestination'. It was very informative indeed & really, not much more could be added to it as you covered it well.
As I re-read Ephesians & Romans on this subject particularly, I found myself wondering whether we actually understand the terms that Paul uses in the context of his writings. If we take a word, e.g. 'choosing' in isolation, then yes, we could easily think in terms of 'choosing someone to receive salvation'. Yet not only from the chapter itself, but by understanding the whole Counsel & Purposes of God in Salvation, this should at least alert the inquiring mind to other possibilities. And this becomes true, as you wrote, that if we incorrectly understand the message to us, then we would believe that God specifically sets aside some to receive salvation and others to be rejected. This then has great bearing on how that sin-soaked, God-rejected person stands before his Judge in that latter day ( Revelation 20:11-13), when there can actually be no accusation against him, since he was appointed to a life of sin & eternal hell simply because he behaved according to God's Will. When we try to study the matter fully, diligently searching for the answers, then a proper balanced outcome will be realized. Blessings.
I agree in every respect, brother. Especially when it comes to judgment. I have to wonder why, if God has already predestined everyone, what would be the purpose of sharing the gospel message of salvation? And why even send missionaries out?
People talk about the Great Commission and how we need to reach the world for Christ. Why so, if it isn't going to make any difference for those who have already predestined to spend eternity in Hell?
If it is God's will that no one should perish but that all would come to repentance ( 2 Peter 3:9), it would be difficult to connect all this together as to why God would already predetermine ahead of time who will be saved and who will be lost!
(Part 5):
Look at the Edomites today, the descendants of Ishmael. Do they turn to Israel and say "You're God's chosen people, praise God! And we're your neighbors. In fact, we're relatives. Praise God again. Let's just serve God together."
Isn't that what they are doing in the Middle East? No! There is hatred and violence against Israel and some of the Arab nations and the people in the Arab nations don't know why, but it's just "the way they do things!" It's really rebellion against God's choice. God didn't make them that way.
So, Verse 29 says "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son."
Because I am in Christ, I have been predestined by God to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. That is, the head of the body of Christ, as He is.
Blessings in Christ!
That was an enlightening lesson on the topic of predestination.
I must admit, I didn't quite have that right
I have heard a teaching similar to that several years ago.
They used the scenario of a city bus that took the same route every day. It was predestined.
All you had to do is get on that bus.
It was your choice.
It is a free ride, you can't pay for it.
It is the "WAY" to point B from point A.
It is the WAY. God's way!
"THE WAY" is what is elected by God!
Paralleling with Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, THAT THE PURPOSE OF GOD ACCORDING TO ELECTION MIGHT STAND, not of works, but of him that calleth;)
IT'S ONLY SAVED PEOPLE GETTING ON THAT BUS! and at the end of the ride is an inheritance.
God bless you.
What a great analogy! The inheritance is what has been predetermined for those who receive Christ. For those who reject Him, their fate has also been predetermined. It is man who chooses to receive or reject the things of God. Romans 9:11 (which you have shared) is a great verse. Thanks for that one. It says (For the children being not yet born). So, they hadn't even been born yet. But secondly, we notice what it says: Neither having done any good or evil.
And then thirdly, the purpose: The reason why God made His choice between Jacob and Esau, before they were born (without them having done good or evil), it is so that the purpose of God could be according to election (His choice), and it might stand, not of works, but of the one who calls;
So, it didn't have anything to do with Jacob and Esau as to who they were, what kind of people they were, whether they were good or evil, it had nothing to do with works or with man. It had to do with God's choice.
Blessings to you also!
I would like to add to you comment.
Predestination is predetermining something.
Before the foundation of the world God predetermined that he would destroy sinful man from the face of the earth, and conform them to the IMAGE of his SON.
Matthew 25:34 .... Come, ye blessed of the Father, INHERIT the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
He chose the cross as his instrument.
He was going to do this ONLY ONCE.
In the fullness of time God sent his SON to take all the wrath of God for mankind, not to take the place of mankind, mankind had to also died on that cross.
Three days latter, to fulfill God's words, God resurrected CHRIST, and ALL mankind was resurrected as HEIRS OF CHRIST, his IMAGE, as he is the IMAGE of the Father.
He came to fulfill all the scriptures that were written about HIM, the kingdom of God.
There is more than enough of his speaking to the multitudes to come to the conclusion what his death and resurrection would accomplish: man becoming HIS IMAGE.
John 17:21 That they ALL may be ONE; as thou, Father, art IN ME, and I IN THEE, that they may be ONE IN US; that the world may believe thou has sent me.
Mark 10:8 And they twain, shall be ONE FLESH: so then they are no more twain but ONE FLESH.
Ephesians 2:15 ..... for to make in himself of twain ONE NEW MAN ......
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, IS IT NOT WRITTEN in your law, I SAID,Ye are gods?
Psalms 82:6 I have said: Ye are gods; and ALL OF YOU the children of the most high.
Psalms 82:7 But ye shall DIE LIKE MEN, and fall like one of the princes (Satan).
This was fulfilled on the Cross of Christ.
Isaiah 41:23 Shew the thing that are TO COME HEREAFTER, that we may know ye are gods ......
God Bless You
Thank you for taking the time to read through my lengthy post. I have read through what you sent to me but I am struggling to see how this adds to or fits with what I presented concerning predestination? Am I missing something here?
I have been reading your posts over the past week, and your response to my message on predestination seems to fit more closely with the things you have been sharing over the past week than they do with what I just posted about predestination, especially with the verses you have provided. Again, maybe I missing something?
Concerning salvation, what are your thoughts on predestination? Does God "predetermine" who will receive eternal salvation and who will receive eternal condemnation?
Thanks again, and blessings to you in Christ!
As I re-read Ephesians & Romans on this subject particularly, I found myself wondering whether we actually understand the terms that Paul uses in the context of his writings. If we take a word, e.g. 'choosing' in isolation, then yes, we could easily think in terms of 'choosing someone to receive salvation'. Yet not only from the chapter itself, but by understanding the whole Counsel & Purposes of God in Salvation, this should at least alert the inquiring mind to other possibilities. And this becomes true, as you wrote, that if we incorrectly understand the message to us, then we would believe that God specifically sets aside some to receive salvation and others to be rejected. This then has great bearing on how that sin-soaked, God-rejected person stands before his Judge in that latter day ( Revelation 20:11-13), when there can actually be no accusation against him, since he was appointed to a life of sin & eternal hell simply because he behaved according to God's Will. When we try to study the matter fully, diligently searching for the answers, then a proper balanced outcome will be realized. Blessings.
I agree in every respect, brother. Especially when it comes to judgment. I have to wonder why, if God has already predestined everyone, what would be the purpose of sharing the gospel message of salvation? And why even send missionaries out?
People talk about the Great Commission and how we need to reach the world for Christ. Why so, if it isn't going to make any difference for those who have already predestined to spend eternity in Hell?
If it is God's will that no one should perish but that all would come to repentance ( 2 Peter 3:9), it would be difficult to connect all this together as to why God would already predetermine ahead of time who will be saved and who will be lost!
God Bless!!!
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