My opinion is that the expression sons of God in Genesis is figurative. It shows that people who obey God's commandments are called His sons. In the begining sons of God were the descedants of Seth. But as they were mixing with the rest of sinful people getting married to their daughters, those daughters made them turn away from God and eventually by the time of Noah only 8 of them remained righteous.
In John 8:42-44 Jesus says to the Jews, "Ye (the Jews) do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. ..." So everyone who does the lusts of devil is a son of devil and one who follows the commandements of God is a son of God. This is how I understand it.
About those sons of God being fallen angels, this idea can not fit in what Jesus said about us living in Heaven like angels and not getting married. Angels have no sex although the masculine sex is used for them. In Job in all those verses you mentioned, in the Septuagint is written angels of God, not sons of God.
Thanks for your reply, I know many have the understanding the sons of God in Genesis 6 are the line of Seth and the daughters of men are of Cain and those not following God. I will just give a little of my understanding not in debate.
Scripture tells us there were Nephilim/giants in the world before and after the flood Genesis 6:42 Samuel 21:16Joshua 12:4Numbers 13:33Deuteronomy 2:19-21Amos 2:9 Also in Joshua 13, 15, 17, 18, 2 Samuel 21 and 1 Chronicles 20 Also, in the Old Testament, there is the Rephaim or Rephaites, and the context describes them as giants. so, where did they come from?
2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1: 6 tell us of a group of angels who left their first estate and are locked in darkness. Many other fallen angels we battle including Satan are on this earth 2 Corinthians 11:14-15. But these angels are locked in darkness until judgment, and we see in Revelation 9:11 they have a king. These angels had to do something far greater than rebelling against God, my understanding is they adulterated God's creation, we see how corrupt it got.
We know from Jude and 2 Peter angels sinned, kept not their first estate, and left their habitation. Estate means condition, status, and dominion, and habitation means residence or dwelling place. I understand how many takes Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25 but Jesus is not referring to sex He is saying when we are resurrected, we will be like the angels in heaven who are immortal. We are mortal, we have to marry and reproduce when we are resurrected, we will be raised immortal same as the angels no more need to marry and reproduce, and we will be on the earth not heaven.
We see angels come down on earth that have bodies, they can eat and drink, Genesis 18:1-8 and other places like Hebrews 13:2. To me the angels who left their estate is where these giants came from, and we see when Israel went into the promised land God wiped out the giants or had them kill them all even the children.
Well, my belief on all the ponts yor wrote about are:
About giants. We see that there were giants before and after the flood. Assuming they are of the same race then those after the flood must originate from Noah himself. Then that means that that corruption entered Noah and his family and from there to the whole mankind? Or the giants described in the latter books are some other human races, something which to me sounds more possible?
About those angels who are imprisoned in the bottomless pit, what I have heard is that they are devils who sometime denied to obey a command from God so they were imprisoned there. Example, when Jesus ordered a demon to exit a human and he didn't want to do so, then God punishes them by sending them to the prison, that bottomless pit. So it is a sentence for not being willing to obey God. The estate and habitation Jude is talking about, I am considering them as the holy state and Heaven where all those demons were living before rebeling against God. This seems to agree with what Jude was talking about in the previous verse, Jude 1:5-6, "5.I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6.And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." Jude is trying to say that disobedience to God brings punishment and uses the example of those devils.
About angels having a biological sex. If we assume that there are male angels then we must assume that there are female angels too. But what for since they will never reproduce? So they have sex in Heaven, too? Sorry Ii know it sounds weard but I wanted to make a point.
About angels having bodies and eating food, well this is something we can not explain really and we have to simply believe it because the Bible says so.
I do not want to drag this out, I did not mean to insinuate that angels have sex in heaven, Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25 have nothing to do with the biological sex of angels. All I said is this verse says when we are resurrected, we will be as the angels, immortal. There will be a day when the last baby is born on this earth.
Devils/demons and angels are two different beings, the Bible does not really tell us how devils/demons came to be, they do not have bodies and have to possess one as we see in Matthew 12:43-45 and other places, Angels have bodies and can attack us in our surroundings outside of our bodies, they can hurt us on the outside but they cannot possess our body, I can testify to that I have had personal confrontations with both, that is something I pray I do not have to go through again but if so, my Lord will be there with me as He was then.
Just me, if the ones locked in chains of darkness refused to obey a command from God Satan would have already been locked up but he is still disobeying and creating havoc. Were there actual Giants, to my studies they are not of the human race their size is outside of any human, it is up to one's own belief, this is just a discussion that has no relevance to salvation.
Goliath's height according to the Septuagint was 4 cubits and a span. that makes him about 6 foot 9 (2.06m) which is a normal height for basketball players nowadays. As Jaz said in the past people were a lot smaller than today. A few years ago as I was visiting an archaeological museum, for the first time I noticed that the helmets of ancient warriors were very small thus indicating that people at that time were a lot smaller than today. A guy 6 foot 9 would seem to them like a high tree without any doubt. One time I stood infront of a guy who was 7 foot tall. I felt really really tiny.
Anyway, you wrote, "Angels have bodies and can attack us in our surroundings outside of our bodies, they can hurt us on the outside but they cannot possess our body, I can testify to that I have had personal confrontations with both, that is something I pray I do not have to go through again but if so, my Lord will be there with me as He was then"
Do you mean that the angels of God can attack a human. Why? What for? They are supposed to protect us, not harm us. Would you like to write a bit more about those confrontations you mentioned? Unless you wouldn't like to remember them again. GBU
I agree God's angels work in our protection but there are angels on the side of Satan as we see in Daniel 10, battles go on that we do not see and this will continue until Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven to earth permanently, in Revelation 12.
In the Bible, we see the possessions of people are done by devils/demons, or unclean spirits, Mark 5:1-5Mark 16:9Matthew 15:22, and others, as in Matthew 8 there was a legion of them in two men and they asked Jesus to cast them into pigs.
I understand rebelling or fallen angels wreak havoc and cause division they will influence, entice, and persuade, people. My understanding is they cannot continue to possess someone, and we will have spiritual battles Ephesians 6:12. I have seen possession of someone, and I had a being lay across me in bed when I awoke it looked like a burlap cloth and its hand over my face. I was able to free my mouth and only said Jesus and it was snatched up and was gone. I can only say it had a body and it was large.
This was in the 90s and during a time when these things happened, I started reading my Bible again and during this time I was saved. My wife and I went to several different churches and in one church the youth group went to an assisted living where my wife worked. She had gotten close to one of the ladies.
My wife was not there when the youth group went on a Saturday, that Sunday the lady over the youth group was telling the church about their visit and said a woman died while they were there. She described it as peaceful, and they were praying. She said the name of the lady and it was the lady my wife was close to, me and my wife both heard the woman say this.
My wife was upset so we left and went by the assisted living and that lady, or no one died. I talked to the preacher, he asked many of the church and no one heard the woman say that this woman died while they were there, we never went back to that church. There were other things.
In the Bible, we see devils, unclean spirits that can occupy and control a human body, but I have not found in the Bible where they came from and why they are on the earth. There are angels locked in chains of darkness, 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 that said they sinned, but we are not told what that sin was it must be something different than just rebelling, to me this points to Genesis 6. We talk about fallen angels but that is not in the Bible. We see there is a hierarchy of angels and devils we see in Matthew 12:43-45.
Matter of fact these three verses were at the heart of the things that happened, the person who was possessed was trying to get seven of us in one location together the reason was never known because the seven were never all together, and we did not let that happen. Satan has rebelled against God but still has access to heaven, Job 1,2. It does not say but I would understand the other angels who have rebelled still have access to heaven because we see they are cast out in Rev. 12.
I feel that angels and devils/unclean spirits are different just by some things I have seen there is no clear proof in the Bible so you may be correct all I can say their evil thankfully there are more good ones faithful and loyal to God.
The only thing I can understand about what happened in that church was before I was saved and it was trying to stop that from happening, or it was done by God to get us away from that church not sure.
The word of God is speaking to us, we are born again by coming to truth of THE WORD, the written WORD becoming the LIVING WORD.
Psalms 103:20 Bless the Lord, YE HIS ANGELS, who excel in strength (of the Lord), that do his commandment, harkening to the voice of the Lord.
Luke 29:36 Neither can they DIE any more (we died with Christ on his cross): for they are EQUAL unto the ANGELS; and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN OF THE RESURRECTION (joint heirs of his kingdom).
Genesis 1:2 .....and DARKNESS was upon the face of the earth (man) .......
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and CREATE DARKNESS .....
Job 19:22 A land of DARKNESS, as DARKNESS itself, and the shadow of DEATH, without any order, and where LIGHT is as DARKNESS.
2 Peter 2:4 But if God spared not the angels that sinned (blasphemed his name), but cast them down to the GRAVE, and delivered them into CHAINS OF DARKNESS (the wages of sin is death), to be reserved unto judgement,
Psalms 149:9 To execute upon the the judgement written, this HONOR hath all his SAINTS......
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation WAITETH (in the grave) for the MANIFESTATION of the SONS OF GOD.
Romans 8:21 Because the CREATION ITSELF shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (darkness) into the GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD.
Interesting, wasn't it also thought to be a walled garden or paradise and not in Eden but east of Eden or Edem? In Genesis 2:8 the Hebrew word gan translated garden also means enclosure so it could have been walled. If they were in an enclosure makes you wonder how they could carry out Genesis 1:28 before they were cast out in Genesis 3:27-28.
Well, it says that the garden or paradise was located in Eden (or Edem) which was to the east (of Israel, I suppose). East of Eden was an old movie and usually people have that in mind.
The word paradise does not have the meaning of a walled area in grk. But looking it up on the net I found out that the original word comes from ancient Persian and means "an enclosure". Later on it was used to describe the "walled gardens" of the persian kings. Later on it entered other languages like grk, Hebrew and Aramaic with the meaning of "walled royal park or gardens" and finally it ended up meaning a beautiful place in modern times.
In the OT the Septuagint always uses the word paradise where the Hebrew text says garden. In the NT we see it in 3 cases. It was used by Jesus when He was talking to the thief that was crucified next to him. So here obviously it means a beautiful place in Heaven, Luke 23:43. Also by Paul when he said that the Lord brought him to Paradise, 2 Corinthians 12:4. And by John in Rev 2:7..Paul and John probably used paradise instead of garden as they had in mind the Septuagint text which was the only OT text in use at that time by the christian gentiles and the grk speaking Hebrews.
Was the original garden in Eden an enclosure?. In Genesis 3:23 God sends the Cherubims to guard the garden and prevent Adam and Eve entering. It says, "So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.". If it was walled it would mention a gate, a door, something, wouldn't it? But who really knows? GBU
Your knowledge of the Greek language is appreciated, I agree that a gate would probably have been mentioned when He drove them out. He drove them out, but they were still in His presence as we see when Cain was driven out from God's face and the presence of God, Genesis 4:14-16. God has given us what we need in only 6 chapters covering 1656 years from Adam to the flood or in the Septuagint 2256 years.
Yes, He only drove them out to prevent them from eating from the tree of life and live for ever in a sinful condition. But He didn't remove His presence from them. In Genesis 4:26 says, "... then began men to call upon the name of the LORD." or "then begun men to be called with the name of the Lord" What does that mean? In Genesis 6:2 it says, "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.". The scriptures call the descenants of Seth as "sons of God" while calling all the other as "children of men"
We know Seth is the line that goes all the way to the Messiah Jesus therefore when Seth had Enosh, this line was the only one walking and calling on the name of God. We see Enoch and Noah walked with God but by the time of Noah all had corrupted themselves, whether they had created false gods, we are not told but their imaginations were evil.
I may have a different understanding of the sons of God, we see in Luke 3:38 that Adam was called the son of God because he was a direct creation of God, he had no human father. Jesus is the Son of God and through Jesus, we can become sons and daughters of God, but I have not found where men are called sons of God.
If we take the sons of Seth as sons of God, would we not have to take the daughters of men the daughters of Cain or all the other men who did not call on the name of God? They all are from Adam and Eve would not all the daughters be fair? The flood was 1656 or 2256 years from Adam, and it says when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them. So, this was long before the flood.
We see in the Bible the sons of God are referring to angels as we see in Job 1:6-12Job 2:1 and Job 38:7. I have not found where men were called sons of God until after the Messiah Jesus and those who believe in Him can become sons of God.
We know there are fallen angels like Satan and others on this earth but there are other angels God has locked in chains of darkness I suppose is the bottomless pit until judgment, 2 Peter 2:4Jude 1:6. My understanding is these are the sons of God who corrupted and polluted God's creation that He destroyed all but eight. We see this happened again after the flood as told in Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also, after that, as we see in Scripture some tall as cedars, Amos 2:9.
In Genesis 2:8 the Masoritic text says, "And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."
The Septuagint text says, "And God planted a paradise in Edem to the east, and put there the man whom he formed"
In Genesis 2:15 the M/c says, "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it."
The S/t says, "And the Lord the God took the man whom he formed, and put him into the paradise of pleasure/delight to work and protect it."
My opinion is that the expression sons of God in Genesis is figurative. It shows that people who obey God's commandments are called His sons. In the begining sons of God were the descedants of Seth. But as they were mixing with the rest of sinful people getting married to their daughters, those daughters made them turn away from God and eventually by the time of Noah only 8 of them remained righteous.
In John 8:42-44 Jesus says to the Jews, "Ye (the Jews) do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.43Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. ..." So everyone who does the lusts of devil is a son of devil and one who follows the commandements of God is a son of God. This is how I understand it.
About those sons of God being fallen angels, this idea can not fit in what Jesus said about us living in Heaven like angels and not getting married. Angels have no sex although the masculine sex is used for them. In Job in all those verses you mentioned, in the Septuagint is written angels of God, not sons of God.
Thanks for your reply, I know many have the understanding the sons of God in Genesis 6 are the line of Seth and the daughters of men are of Cain and those not following God. I will just give a little of my understanding not in debate.
Scripture tells us there were Nephilim/giants in the world before and after the flood Genesis 6:4 2 Samuel 21:16 Joshua 12:4 Numbers 13:33 Deuteronomy 2:19-21 Amos 2:9 Also in Joshua 13, 15, 17, 18, 2 Samuel 21 and 1 Chronicles 20 Also, in the Old Testament, there is the Rephaim or Rephaites, and the context describes them as giants. so, where did they come from?
2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1: 6 tell us of a group of angels who left their first estate and are locked in darkness. Many other fallen angels we battle including Satan are on this earth 2 Corinthians 11:14-15. But these angels are locked in darkness until judgment, and we see in Revelation 9:11 they have a king. These angels had to do something far greater than rebelling against God, my understanding is they adulterated God's creation, we see how corrupt it got.
We know from Jude and 2 Peter angels sinned, kept not their first estate, and left their habitation. Estate means condition, status, and dominion, and habitation means residence or dwelling place. I understand how many takes Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25 but Jesus is not referring to sex He is saying when we are resurrected, we will be like the angels in heaven who are immortal. We are mortal, we have to marry and reproduce when we are resurrected, we will be raised immortal same as the angels no more need to marry and reproduce, and we will be on the earth not heaven.
We see angels come down on earth that have bodies, they can eat and drink, Genesis 18:1-8 and other places like Hebrews 13:2. To me the angels who left their estate is where these giants came from, and we see when Israel went into the promised land God wiped out the giants or had them kill them all even the children.
God bless,
RLW
Well, my belief on all the ponts yor wrote about are:
About giants. We see that there were giants before and after the flood. Assuming they are of the same race then those after the flood must originate from Noah himself. Then that means that that corruption entered Noah and his family and from there to the whole mankind? Or the giants described in the latter books are some other human races, something which to me sounds more possible?
About those angels who are imprisoned in the bottomless pit, what I have heard is that they are devils who sometime denied to obey a command from God so they were imprisoned there. Example, when Jesus ordered a demon to exit a human and he didn't want to do so, then God punishes them by sending them to the prison, that bottomless pit. So it is a sentence for not being willing to obey God. The estate and habitation Jude is talking about, I am considering them as the holy state and Heaven where all those demons were living before rebeling against God. This seems to agree with what Jude was talking about in the previous verse, Jude 1:5-6, "5.I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6.And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." Jude is trying to say that disobedience to God brings punishment and uses the example of those devils.
About angels having a biological sex. If we assume that there are male angels then we must assume that there are female angels too. But what for since they will never reproduce? So they have sex in Heaven, too? Sorry Ii know it sounds weard but I wanted to make a point.
About angels having bodies and eating food, well this is something we can not explain really and we have to simply believe it because the Bible says so.
GBU
I do not want to drag this out, I did not mean to insinuate that angels have sex in heaven, Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25 have nothing to do with the biological sex of angels. All I said is this verse says when we are resurrected, we will be as the angels, immortal. There will be a day when the last baby is born on this earth.
Devils/demons and angels are two different beings, the Bible does not really tell us how devils/demons came to be, they do not have bodies and have to possess one as we see in Matthew 12:43-45 and other places, Angels have bodies and can attack us in our surroundings outside of our bodies, they can hurt us on the outside but they cannot possess our body, I can testify to that I have had personal confrontations with both, that is something I pray I do not have to go through again but if so, my Lord will be there with me as He was then.
Just me, if the ones locked in chains of darkness refused to obey a command from God Satan would have already been locked up but he is still disobeying and creating havoc. Were there actual Giants, to my studies they are not of the human race their size is outside of any human, it is up to one's own belief, this is just a discussion that has no relevance to salvation.
Thank you, brother God bless,
RLW
Goliath's height according to the Septuagint was 4 cubits and a span. that makes him about 6 foot 9 (2.06m) which is a normal height for basketball players nowadays. As Jaz said in the past people were a lot smaller than today. A few years ago as I was visiting an archaeological museum, for the first time I noticed that the helmets of ancient warriors were very small thus indicating that people at that time were a lot smaller than today. A guy 6 foot 9 would seem to them like a high tree without any doubt. One time I stood infront of a guy who was 7 foot tall. I felt really really tiny.
Anyway, you wrote, "Angels have bodies and can attack us in our surroundings outside of our bodies, they can hurt us on the outside but they cannot possess our body, I can testify to that I have had personal confrontations with both, that is something I pray I do not have to go through again but if so, my Lord will be there with me as He was then"
Do you mean that the angels of God can attack a human. Why? What for? They are supposed to protect us, not harm us. Would you like to write a bit more about those confrontations you mentioned? Unless you wouldn't like to remember them again. GBU
I agree God's angels work in our protection but there are angels on the side of Satan as we see in Daniel 10, battles go on that we do not see and this will continue until Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven to earth permanently, in Revelation 12.
In the Bible, we see the possessions of people are done by devils/demons, or unclean spirits, Mark 5:1-5 Mark 16:9 Matthew 15:22, and others, as in Matthew 8 there was a legion of them in two men and they asked Jesus to cast them into pigs.
I understand rebelling or fallen angels wreak havoc and cause division they will influence, entice, and persuade, people. My understanding is they cannot continue to possess someone, and we will have spiritual battles Ephesians 6:12. I have seen possession of someone, and I had a being lay across me in bed when I awoke it looked like a burlap cloth and its hand over my face. I was able to free my mouth and only said Jesus and it was snatched up and was gone. I can only say it had a body and it was large.
This was in the 90s and during a time when these things happened, I started reading my Bible again and during this time I was saved. My wife and I went to several different churches and in one church the youth group went to an assisted living where my wife worked. She had gotten close to one of the ladies.
My wife was not there when the youth group went on a Saturday, that Sunday the lady over the youth group was telling the church about their visit and said a woman died while they were there. She described it as peaceful, and they were praying. She said the name of the lady and it was the lady my wife was close to, me and my wife both heard the woman say this.
My wife was upset so we left and went by the assisted living and that lady, or no one died. I talked to the preacher, he asked many of the church and no one heard the woman say that this woman died while they were there, we never went back to that church. There were other things.
God bless,
RLW
Do you mean that angels of satan are something different from demons/devils? I think they are the same thing, just the name changes.
Anyway That story about that church left me baffled. What do you think it happened?
In the Bible, we see devils, unclean spirits that can occupy and control a human body, but I have not found in the Bible where they came from and why they are on the earth. There are angels locked in chains of darkness, 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6 that said they sinned, but we are not told what that sin was it must be something different than just rebelling, to me this points to Genesis 6. We talk about fallen angels but that is not in the Bible. We see there is a hierarchy of angels and devils we see in Matthew 12:43-45.
Matter of fact these three verses were at the heart of the things that happened, the person who was possessed was trying to get seven of us in one location together the reason was never known because the seven were never all together, and we did not let that happen. Satan has rebelled against God but still has access to heaven, Job 1,2. It does not say but I would understand the other angels who have rebelled still have access to heaven because we see they are cast out in Rev. 12.
I feel that angels and devils/unclean spirits are different just by some things I have seen there is no clear proof in the Bible so you may be correct all I can say their evil thankfully there are more good ones faithful and loyal to God.
The only thing I can understand about what happened in that church was before I was saved and it was trying to stop that from happening, or it was done by God to get us away from that church not sure.
God bless,
RLW
The word of God is speaking to us, we are born again by coming to truth of THE WORD, the written WORD becoming the LIVING WORD.
Psalms 103:20 Bless the Lord, YE HIS ANGELS, who excel in strength (of the Lord), that do his commandment, harkening to the voice of the Lord.
Luke 29:36 Neither can they DIE any more (we died with Christ on his cross): for they are EQUAL unto the ANGELS; and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN OF THE RESURRECTION (joint heirs of his kingdom).
Genesis 1:2 .....and DARKNESS was upon the face of the earth (man) .......
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and CREATE DARKNESS .....
Job 19:22 A land of DARKNESS, as DARKNESS itself, and the shadow of DEATH, without any order, and where LIGHT is as DARKNESS.
2 Peter 2:4 But if God spared not the angels that sinned (blasphemed his name), but cast them down to the GRAVE, and delivered them into CHAINS OF DARKNESS (the wages of sin is death), to be reserved unto judgement,
Psalms 149:9 To execute upon the the judgement written, this HONOR hath all his SAINTS......
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation WAITETH (in the grave) for the MANIFESTATION of the SONS OF GOD.
Romans 8:21 Because the CREATION ITSELF shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (darkness) into the GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD.
God Bless You
Interesting, wasn't it also thought to be a walled garden or paradise and not in Eden but east of Eden or Edem? In Genesis 2:8 the Hebrew word gan translated garden also means enclosure so it could have been walled. If they were in an enclosure makes you wonder how they could carry out Genesis 1:28 before they were cast out in Genesis 3:27-28.
God bless,
RLW
Well, it says that the garden or paradise was located in Eden (or Edem) which was to the east (of Israel, I suppose). East of Eden was an old movie and usually people have that in mind.
The word paradise does not have the meaning of a walled area in grk. But looking it up on the net I found out that the original word comes from ancient Persian and means "an enclosure". Later on it was used to describe the "walled gardens" of the persian kings. Later on it entered other languages like grk, Hebrew and Aramaic with the meaning of "walled royal park or gardens" and finally it ended up meaning a beautiful place in modern times.
In the OT the Septuagint always uses the word paradise where the Hebrew text says garden. In the NT we see it in 3 cases. It was used by Jesus when He was talking to the thief that was crucified next to him. So here obviously it means a beautiful place in Heaven, Luke 23:43. Also by Paul when he said that the Lord brought him to Paradise, 2 Corinthians 12:4. And by John in Rev 2:7..Paul and John probably used paradise instead of garden as they had in mind the Septuagint text which was the only OT text in use at that time by the christian gentiles and the grk speaking Hebrews.
Was the original garden in Eden an enclosure?. In Genesis 3:23 God sends the Cherubims to guard the garden and prevent Adam and Eve entering. It says, "So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.". If it was walled it would mention a gate, a door, something, wouldn't it? But who really knows? GBU
Your knowledge of the Greek language is appreciated, I agree that a gate would probably have been mentioned when He drove them out. He drove them out, but they were still in His presence as we see when Cain was driven out from God's face and the presence of God, Genesis 4:14-16. God has given us what we need in only 6 chapters covering 1656 years from Adam to the flood or in the Septuagint 2256 years.
Thanks again
God bless,
RLW
Yes, He only drove them out to prevent them from eating from the tree of life and live for ever in a sinful condition. But He didn't remove His presence from them. In Genesis 4:26 says, "... then began men to call upon the name of the LORD." or "then begun men to be called with the name of the Lord" What does that mean? In Genesis 6:2 it says, "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.". The scriptures call the descenants of Seth as "sons of God" while calling all the other as "children of men"
Thank you as well. GBU
We know Seth is the line that goes all the way to the Messiah Jesus therefore when Seth had Enosh, this line was the only one walking and calling on the name of God. We see Enoch and Noah walked with God but by the time of Noah all had corrupted themselves, whether they had created false gods, we are not told but their imaginations were evil.
I may have a different understanding of the sons of God, we see in Luke 3:38 that Adam was called the son of God because he was a direct creation of God, he had no human father. Jesus is the Son of God and through Jesus, we can become sons and daughters of God, but I have not found where men are called sons of God.
If we take the sons of Seth as sons of God, would we not have to take the daughters of men the daughters of Cain or all the other men who did not call on the name of God? They all are from Adam and Eve would not all the daughters be fair? The flood was 1656 or 2256 years from Adam, and it says when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them. So, this was long before the flood.
We see in the Bible the sons of God are referring to angels as we see in Job 1:6-12 Job 2:1 and Job 38:7. I have not found where men were called sons of God until after the Messiah Jesus and those who believe in Him can become sons of God.
We know there are fallen angels like Satan and others on this earth but there are other angels God has locked in chains of darkness I suppose is the bottomless pit until judgment, 2 Peter 2:4 Jude 1:6. My understanding is these are the sons of God who corrupted and polluted God's creation that He destroyed all but eight. We see this happened again after the flood as told in Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also, after that, as we see in Scripture some tall as cedars, Amos 2:9.
God bless,
RLW
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