As promised, I'm returning to our discussion that I had to exit due to a lot going on during the week.
Just to recap what initiated this discussion allow me to back track a little.
A few days ago, you responded to me concerning a post I made.
Here's that Post.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, PREACHED UNTO THE GENTILES, BELIEVED ON IN THE WORLD, RECEIVED UP INTO GLORY. 1 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16.
When "ALL" scripture is Allegorized or interpreted mystically it is NOT able to be profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
There is the difference.
One is just so happened to be correct.
Christ sheep does not leave the back door open for the wolves to come in because they hate the sheep fold.
End Post.
The first part of that post ( 1 Timothy 3:16) was in relation to a question asked. "Why we do preach the deity of Christ, "though it offends some. "Because it happens to be true!
The second part of that post ( 2 Timothy 3:16.) I mentioned to explain why and what method we use when we reprove, correct or instruct. "We use scripture as it is written without Allegorizing it or interpreting it mystically so it can be put on a spindle so it can be purposely taken out of context.
The third part of the Post is saying, just because one hates the Trinity doctrine it shouldn't cause a true believer to side and promote a false teacher/wolf and a Doctrine they don't believe in. Such as, "believers and unbelievers alike will become gods. Noone by the Spirirt of Christ would do such a thing.
See Part 2 concerning your response and a Holy kiss.
"Hello brother Spencer, Good evening! Thinking of doctrine, the Church practice of
giving and taking reproof by love maybe is part of what you are thinking? Church discipline and restoration?
God bless the walk.
Brother Carleton, That I absolutely agree with! However, that is not in the context of this message.
This message is more in line with Jude 1:3-4 with the focus on what is mentioned in verse 4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares,"
This has the thought of some has come into the fold sort of like through a back door.
Jude 1:10-15. He describes them. They are not Brothern. They are not Sheep.
As for "A Holy kiss.
Does the bible say greet "them" with a Holy kiss? No, I don't think so.
Romans 10:8-10 says the words is ni thy mouth.
These words is what we can confess to others if asked by what means are you saved.
However, what about the guy whom from his heart "by his mouth" speaks against truth?
We don't judge his present spiritual condition; he's done it ALREADY by refusing to believe and enter in the straight and narrow gate. See Matthew 7:13-15. and John 3:18.
What do these verses concerning a Holy kiss have in common? This Holy kiss is for the Brothern.
1 Corinthians 16:20.
2 Corinthians 13:11-12.
1 Thessalonians 5:26.
Romans 16:16.
The Holy kiss wasn't only meant to express love for the Brothern.
The Holy kiss is meant to express acceptance especially at a time when Gentiles was coming into the fold.
It certainly wasn't for non-believers.
Look at 2 John1:10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.
Also see Romans 16:17-18.
Does open rebuke harm a brother?
Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. Proverbs 27:5-6.
Carleton, When I speak of demonic influence, I mean that literally!! I'm not name calling. Yes, I believe in that and I believe in demons also. There is no Holy kiss for that person!! This Holy kiss of acceptance is to and for the Brothern.
Romans 12:9 says Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Abhor means to detest, or to feel abhorrence of; hate; dislike intensely.
When someone doesn't hold the truth that's one thing, but when someone stands in the way of the preaching of the cross of Christ that's another and it's evil. That's not a brother.
Look at Paul in Philippians 3:2. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Paul calls them the enemies of the cross of Christ. And he says to MARK them! Philippians 3:17-19.
How do you reconcile these scriptures?
1 Corinthians 5:6-13.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18.
Listen to Paul in Titus 2:15. To rebuke someone is to admonish or convict. convince one of a fault. "This is from brother to Brother. Him you kiss, not an enemy of the cross of Christ.
We have those amongst us that promote a legalistic means of Justification that the scriptures identifies them as "Enemies of the cross of Christ." The scripture doesn't say greet them with an Holy kiss. In fact it says "Mark them which walk so"
However atleast they promote righteous living! They're just not justified before God in their efforts without a rebirth.
This person here in question, for the past three years or so doesn't promote righteous living at all! And they don't promote the acceptance of the work of Christ on the Cross as THE means for salvation! Would you say he's a Brother?
We use Brothern to loosely today. Everyone amongst us is not a Brother or a Sister!
Look at the example Jesus gives in Matthew 12:47-50.
"Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren.
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Romans 12:3 says not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
We all have flaws and we're all of one body ministering by the same Spirit, having gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us by "THE GIFT" (Christ Spirit.) We are to exercise those gifts by the power of Christ Spirit.
We are to Love one another; I've declared that on this site since I've been on it using John 13:34-35 as a springboard.
Also, 1 John 4:20-21 and Matthew 7:15-16.
We shall be known by our fruit, not our gifts!
CAN YOU GENERATE THIS ON YOUR OWN?
Love amongst the brothern is not partial.
It's not determined by race, wealth, political parties, Gender, status in the church, or one's eschatology.
Love at its highest level is Agape. It's caused by the Holyspirit that knits us as one. It's to be totally given over to.
I've seen where one says he have the gift of discernment but yet he shuns other Brothern.
If you have an issue with a brother, you restore him. Galatians 6:1-4.
We must look out for each other. James 5:20 says, "Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins." Confrontation may be difficult, but it is not loving to allow a professing Christian to continue in a sin that will bring God's consequences upon him.
If the church as a whole took Jesus' words more seriously, our voice would be more respected in the world. When we neglect to address grievous sins in the church, we appear to take sin lightly. Skeptics can't respect our claim to honor the Bible as God's Word while we ignore those of our number who are overtly disobeying it.
GOD GIVES US HIS SPIRIT TO PERFORM WHAT WE CAN'T DO IN THE FLESH. AND THIS IS HOW WE KNOW HE IS IN US.
1 John 6:13.
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
Philippians 1:9 states; "And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all JUDGMENT;
Here I believe Judgment is speaking of discernment.
Part 1.
Something to notice about 1 John 2 and 1 John 4. In 1 John when you study it carefully, you see John using the contrast of loving your brother "which is hating your brother" to illustrate the heart of nonbelievers who "say" they love God. John is saying if you don't love your brother, you don't love God!
Look at verse 2. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
It all begins in Bethlehem! Christ was born in Bethlehem. It's the incarnation is where we begin!
Calvary and the Garden tomb are meaningless unless he is who he claims to be. God in the flesh! 1 Timothy 3:16.
One way you can determine the false teacher is he will deny the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ and behind this doctrine and the lack of the Spirit, he will have no love for the Brothern. This is the Spirit of the Antichrist.
John has much to say about the deity of Christ. John 1:1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...
1 John he has a lot to say about the Antichrist in the world.
These false teachers appeals to the flesh! We have the Spirit of Christ which protects us.
Verse 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. These false teachers intellectually appeal to the world through their fleshly minds.
Verse 5. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
God's children "WILL" respond to God's word.
Verse 7, Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
John having given a warning of false teachers, John returns to the theme of this section.
John having given a warning of false teachers, John returns to the theme of this section.
Believers are to Love one another.
It's not Eros: romantic, passionate love.
It's not Philia: intimate, authentic friendship.
It's Agape. love that involves selflessness and compassion which the Spirit causes us to be totally given over to.
It's supernatural Love that the Holyspirit puts in our heart toward each other.
What makes this degree of Love "Agape" special is that it is directed! God causes this degree of Love to be aimed towards one another. When we were of the world, we loved darkness. ( John 3:19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men "LOVED" darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. "Agape is used here as well. Notice where it's directed. "DARKNESS"
Agape towards the Brothern is a fruit, not a command. Only the Spirit of God can enable us to extend this degree of love to others.
Verse 8, He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Verses 9-13.
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
Verse 16.
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Verses 20-21.
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
Hello brother Spencer, Glad you're back at the office so to speak! I agree with your thoughts here as I did last week. The thoughts are interpreting the Bible as literal as we can in our very life. Or do I mis-understand you? Will read part two as I can.
We interpret the scripture as literal as we can unless prompt by perhaps words that hint not to. such as Revelation 16:13. And I saw three unclean spirits "like frogs" come out of the mouth of the dragon, ( These are not frogs, they are like frogs.)
Often you can go back to the Old Testament or other places for clarity in these symbols. perhaps the second plague that God sent upon Egypt was that of frogs. The Egyptians found the frogs to be so obnoxious that Pharaoh entreated Moses to remove all the frogs. And these frogs covered the whole land.
These evil spirits coming out of the mouth of this unholy trinity may be what is spoken and persuaded of them. look at the preceding verse.
(For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.) "Which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world" means this covers the whole word.
Part 1.
As promised, I'm returning to our discussion that I had to exit due to a lot going on during the week.
Just to recap what initiated this discussion allow me to back track a little.
A few days ago, you responded to me concerning a post I made.
Here's that Post.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, PREACHED UNTO THE GENTILES, BELIEVED ON IN THE WORLD, RECEIVED UP INTO GLORY. 1 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16.
When "ALL" scripture is Allegorized or interpreted mystically it is NOT able to be profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
There is the difference.
One is just so happened to be correct.
Christ sheep does not leave the back door open for the wolves to come in because they hate the sheep fold.
End Post.
The first part of that post ( 1 Timothy 3:16) was in relation to a question asked. "Why we do preach the deity of Christ, "though it offends some. "Because it happens to be true!
The second part of that post ( 2 Timothy 3:16.) I mentioned to explain why and what method we use when we reprove, correct or instruct. "We use scripture as it is written without Allegorizing it or interpreting it mystically so it can be put on a spindle so it can be purposely taken out of context.
The third part of the Post is saying, just because one hates the Trinity doctrine it shouldn't cause a true believer to side and promote a false teacher/wolf and a Doctrine they don't believe in. Such as, "believers and unbelievers alike will become gods. Noone by the Spirirt of Christ would do such a thing.
See Part 2 concerning your response and a Holy kiss.
Part 2.
Here's is your response to the original post.
"Hello brother Spencer, Good evening! Thinking of doctrine, the Church practice of
giving and taking reproof by love maybe is part of what you are thinking? Church discipline and restoration?
God bless the walk.
Brother Carleton, That I absolutely agree with! However, that is not in the context of this message.
This message is more in line with Jude 1:3-4 with the focus on what is mentioned in verse 4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares,"
This has the thought of some has come into the fold sort of like through a back door.
Jude 1:10-15. He describes them. They are not Brothern. They are not Sheep.
As for "A Holy kiss.
Does the bible say greet "them" with a Holy kiss? No, I don't think so.
Romans 10:8-10 says the words is ni thy mouth.
These words is what we can confess to others if asked by what means are you saved.
However, what about the guy whom from his heart "by his mouth" speaks against truth?
We don't judge his present spiritual condition; he's done it ALREADY by refusing to believe and enter in the straight and narrow gate. See Matthew 7:13-15. and John 3:18.
What do these verses concerning a Holy kiss have in common? This Holy kiss is for the Brothern.
1 Corinthians 16:20.
2 Corinthians 13:11-12.
1 Thessalonians 5:26.
Romans 16:16.
The Holy kiss wasn't only meant to express love for the Brothern.
The Holy kiss is meant to express acceptance especially at a time when Gentiles was coming into the fold.
It certainly wasn't for non-believers.
Look at 2 John1:10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.
Also see Romans 16:17-18.
Does open rebuke harm a brother?
Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. Proverbs 27:5-6.
See Part 3
Part 3.
Carleton, When I speak of demonic influence, I mean that literally!! I'm not name calling. Yes, I believe in that and I believe in demons also. There is no Holy kiss for that person!! This Holy kiss of acceptance is to and for the Brothern.
Romans 12:9 says Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Abhor means to detest, or to feel abhorrence of; hate; dislike intensely.
When someone doesn't hold the truth that's one thing, but when someone stands in the way of the preaching of the cross of Christ that's another and it's evil. That's not a brother.
Look at Paul in Philippians 3:2. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Paul calls them the enemies of the cross of Christ. And he says to MARK them! Philippians 3:17-19.
How do you reconcile these scriptures?
1 Corinthians 5:6-13.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18.
Listen to Paul in Titus 2:15. To rebuke someone is to admonish or convict. convince one of a fault. "This is from brother to Brother. Him you kiss, not an enemy of the cross of Christ.
We have those amongst us that promote a legalistic means of Justification that the scriptures identifies them as "Enemies of the cross of Christ." The scripture doesn't say greet them with an Holy kiss. In fact it says "Mark them which walk so"
However atleast they promote righteous living! They're just not justified before God in their efforts without a rebirth.
This person here in question, for the past three years or so doesn't promote righteous living at all! And they don't promote the acceptance of the work of Christ on the Cross as THE means for salvation! Would you say he's a Brother?
See Part 4.
Part 4.
We use Brothern to loosely today. Everyone amongst us is not a Brother or a Sister!
Look at the example Jesus gives in Matthew 12:47-50.
"Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren.
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Romans 12:3 says not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
We all have flaws and we're all of one body ministering by the same Spirit, having gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us by "THE GIFT" (Christ Spirit.) We are to exercise those gifts by the power of Christ Spirit.
We are to Love one another; I've declared that on this site since I've been on it using John 13:34-35 as a springboard.
Also, 1 John 4:20-21 and Matthew 7:15-16.
We shall be known by our fruit, not our gifts!
CAN YOU GENERATE THIS ON YOUR OWN?
Love amongst the brothern is not partial.
It's not determined by race, wealth, political parties, Gender, status in the church, or one's eschatology.
Love at its highest level is Agape. It's caused by the Holyspirit that knits us as one. It's to be totally given over to.
I've seen where one says he have the gift of discernment but yet he shuns other Brothern.
If you have an issue with a brother, you restore him. Galatians 6:1-4.
We must look out for each other. James 5:20 says, "Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins." Confrontation may be difficult, but it is not loving to allow a professing Christian to continue in a sin that will bring God's consequences upon him.
See Part 5.
If the church as a whole took Jesus' words more seriously, our voice would be more respected in the world. When we neglect to address grievous sins in the church, we appear to take sin lightly. Skeptics can't respect our claim to honor the Bible as God's Word while we ignore those of our number who are overtly disobeying it.
GOD GIVES US HIS SPIRIT TO PERFORM WHAT WE CAN'T DO IN THE FLESH. AND THIS IS HOW WE KNOW HE IS IN US.
1 John 6:13.
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
God bless you Brother Carleton.
Here I believe Judgment is speaking of discernment.
Part 1.
Something to notice about 1 John 2 and 1 John 4. In 1 John when you study it carefully, you see John using the contrast of loving your brother "which is hating your brother" to illustrate the heart of nonbelievers who "say" they love God. John is saying if you don't love your brother, you don't love God!
Look at verse 2. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
It all begins in Bethlehem! Christ was born in Bethlehem. It's the incarnation is where we begin!
Calvary and the Garden tomb are meaningless unless he is who he claims to be. God in the flesh! 1 Timothy 3:16.
One way you can determine the false teacher is he will deny the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ and behind this doctrine and the lack of the Spirit, he will have no love for the Brothern. This is the Spirit of the Antichrist.
John has much to say about the deity of Christ. John 1:1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...
1 John he has a lot to say about the Antichrist in the world.
These false teachers appeals to the flesh! We have the Spirit of Christ which protects us.
Verse 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. These false teachers intellectually appeal to the world through their fleshly minds.
Verse 5. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
God's children "WILL" respond to God's word.
Verse 7, Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
John having given a warning of false teachers, John returns to the theme of this section.
See Part 2.
John having given a warning of false teachers, John returns to the theme of this section.
Believers are to Love one another.
It's not Eros: romantic, passionate love.
It's not Philia: intimate, authentic friendship.
It's Agape. love that involves selflessness and compassion which the Spirit causes us to be totally given over to.
It's supernatural Love that the Holyspirit puts in our heart toward each other.
What makes this degree of Love "Agape" special is that it is directed! God causes this degree of Love to be aimed towards one another. When we were of the world, we loved darkness. ( John 3:19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men "LOVED" darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. "Agape is used here as well. Notice where it's directed. "DARKNESS"
Agape towards the Brothern is a fruit, not a command. Only the Spirit of God can enable us to extend this degree of love to others.
Verse 8, He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Verses 9-13.
In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
Verse 16.
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Verses 20-21.
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
Good night and God bless
God bless.
Carleton
We interpret the scripture as literal as we can unless prompt by perhaps words that hint not to. such as Revelation 16:13. And I saw three unclean spirits "like frogs" come out of the mouth of the dragon, ( These are not frogs, they are like frogs.)
Often you can go back to the Old Testament or other places for clarity in these symbols. perhaps the second plague that God sent upon Egypt was that of frogs. The Egyptians found the frogs to be so obnoxious that Pharaoh entreated Moses to remove all the frogs. And these frogs covered the whole land.
These evil spirits coming out of the mouth of this unholy trinity may be what is spoken and persuaded of them. look at the preceding verse.
(For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.) "Which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world" means this covers the whole word.
God bless.
This comment thread is locked. Please enter a new comment below to start a new comment thread.
Note: Comment threads older than 2 months are automatically locked.
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Please Sign In or Register to post comments...
Report Comment
Which best represents the problem with the comment?