Bible Discussion Thread Page 2

And what is it but the Galatian heresy when believers are warned that they must keep the Sabbath if they are to be saved at last?

How do they dare to do this in the light of Paul's clear teaching that the Christian is dead to the law? How do they get around the plain statements of Galatians? The answer is that they make a sharp distinction between the MORAL LAW and the CEREMONIAL LAW. The moral law is the Ten Commandments. The ceremonial law covers the other regulations given by God, such as rules concerning unclean foods, leprosy, offerings to God, and so forth.

The moral law, they say, has never been revoked. It is an expression of God's eternal truth. To commit idolatry, murder, or adultery will always be contrary to God's law. The ceremonial law, however, has been done away in Christ. Therefore, they conclude, when Paul teaches that the Christian is dead to the law, he is speaking about the ceremonial law and not the Ten Commandments.

Since the moral law is still in effect, Christians are bound to keep it, they insist. This means that they must keep the Sabbath, that they must do no work on that day. They assert that one of the popes of the Roman Catholic Church ordered the change from Sabbath-obser vance to observance of Sunday, in utter violation of Scriptures.

This reasoning sounds very logical and appealing. However, its great condemning feature is that it is entirely contrary to God's word! Note the following points:

1. In 2Co 3:7-11, the Ten Commandments are definitely stated to be "done away" for the believer in Christ. In verse 7, the law is described as "the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones." This could only mean the moral law, not the ceremonial law. Only the Ten Commandments were engraved in stones by the finger of God ( Ex 31:18). In verse 11, we read that the ministry of death, though glorious, is done away. Nothing could be more decisive than this. The Sabbath has no claim on the Christian.

Excellent explanation and distinction between moral law and ceremonial law.

Jcubria

The scripture below is truth, and it convicts all those that believe as you.

1 John 2: "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Matthew 19:17 "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."

Revelation 22:14"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

Jesus spoke to apostle John in this verse above in Revelation 22:14 approximately 60 years after His death on the cross, and about 18 years after apostle Pauls death. Jesus knew what Paul preached, and he preached the same gospel as Christ! Paul did not cancel any of God's commandments, he and all of the apostles followed them during their lives. Do you really believe you are favored over and above Christ and His apostles, they followed the Commandments but now you and others today feel you don't have to. Really.

Lastly, I do not believe we can continue this discussion as your beliefs conflict with the scripture, and your popular modern day take on salvation 2Tim 4:3 is only deceiving to those that are not living in God's Spirit. 1 John 3:24 God's Salvation is not a buffet to pick and choose what scripture that you believe, and what scripture you will ignore!

I pray that God's Spirit will eventually convict you, and some others here, to actually pick up your cross and follow Christ, which will result in obedience, and a desire to follow Gods Commandments, and turn away from this sinful and deceived world. Matt 16:24

Brother Dan, I am sorry you feel that way.

You wrote "Yes it is the 4th Commandment. Regarding the Sabbath scripturally, this is directly from God."

There are several scriptures here that do not lend support to your position regarding Christians having to maintain the Sabbath. Not to mention the entire book of Galatians weighing in on the law.

Colossians 2:16 (KJV) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

2 Corinthians 3:7-11 (AMP)

7 Now if the dispensation of death engraved in letters on stone [the ministration of the Law], was inaugurated with such glory and splendor that the Israelites were not able to look steadily at the face of Moses because of its brilliance, [a glory] that was to fade and pass away,

8 Why should not the dispensation of the Spirit [this spiritual ministry whose task it is to cause men to obtain and be governed by the Holy Spirit] be attended with much greater and more splendid glory?

9 For if the service that condemns [the ministration of doom] had glory, how infinitely more abounding in splendor and glory must be the service that makes righteous [the ministry that produces and fosters righteous living and right standing with God]!

10Indeed, in view of this fact, what once had splendor [the glory of the Law in the face of Moses] has come to have no splendor at all, because of the overwhelming glory that exceeds and excels it [the glory of the Gospel in the face of Jesus Christ].

11 For if that which was but passing and fading away came with splendor, how much more must that which remains and is permanent abide in glory and splendor!

Also, Romans 8:1-4 (KJV)

[Comment Removed]

Greetings in Christ JESUS

Veronicagt7

No, absolutely no, only who really follows JESUS and believe in Him understand of this I'm testifying. Keeping the sabath is a mere human formality of those who bear false witness through an evil and sectarian spirit, and insists on contradicting what JESUS said.

JESUS said(I also speak like Him)- Matthew 11: 12-15: -> 13 For all the prophets and the LAW prophesied until John (the Baptist).

15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the Kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

That said, who really follows JESUS and believe in Him speaks as He speaks because has the Spirit of Christ. JESUS said: John 7:38 - He that believeth on me, as the SCRIPTURE hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. By the way, "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His"- Romans 8:9.

Actually, JESUS worked on the Sabbath and the Father also worked- John 5:17.

The Jews sought the more to kill JESUS, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that GOD was His Father, making himself equal with God- John 5:18.

Now, in the current time, in this end of the times, the contradicting preachers of the Sabbath keeping sects, try to lead astray and kill the true believers in JESUS by replacing the spirit of Christ that is in them by their sectarian spirit, evil and hypocrite, and they compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, they make him twofold more the child of hell than themselves, as we can see in this present time in those which atend the temple of sects in this current time.

Be careful or then get ready, for "the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in this latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils- 1Timothy 4:1. (devils? John 6:70-71 and Luke 22:3. Take a look.).

Veronicagt7

Yes it is the 4th Commandment.

Regarding the Sabbath scripturally, this is directly from God.

Exodus 20:8-11 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

God want's us to rest one day a week. He also wants us to give others a day of rest. Look how crazy this non-stop world goes 24/7/365 days a year. This Sabbath Day is for man, it is a gift to us!

1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

GBU

1. In 2Co 3:7-11, the Ten Commandments are definitely stated to be "done away" for the believer in Christ. In verse 7, the law is described as "the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones." This could only mean the moral law, not the ceremonial law. Only the Ten Commandments were engraved in stones by the finger of God ( Ex 31:18). In verse 11, we read that the ministry of death, though glorious, is done away. Nothing could be more decisive than this. The Sabbath has no claim on the Christian. 2. No Gentile was ever commanded to keep the Sabbath. The law was given to the Jewish nation only ( Ex 31:13). Although God Himself rested on the seventh day, He did not command anyone else to do so until He gave the law to the children of Israel.3. Christians did not switch from the Sabbath to the first day of the week because of the decree of any pope. We set aside the Lord's Day in a special way for worship and for service because the Lord Jesus rose from the dead on that day, a proof that the work of redemption was completed ( Jn 20:1). Also, on that day the early disciples met to break bread, showing forth the Lord's death (Ac 20:7), and it was the day appointed by God for the Christians to set apart their offerings as the Lord had prospered them ( 1Co 16:1, 2). Furthermore, the Holy Spirit was sent down from heaven on the first day of the week. Christians do not "observe" the Lord's Day as a means of achieving holiness, or from fear of punishment; they set it apart because of loving devotion to the One who gave Himself for them.4. Paul does not distinguish between the moral law and the ceremonial law. Rather, he insists that the law is a complete unit, and that a curse rests on those who seek to attain righteousness by it, yet fail to keep it all.5. Nine of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the NT as moral instruction for the children of God. They deal with things that are inherently right or wrong. The one commandment which is omitted is the law of the Sabbath.

Jcubria

To believe as you do you would have to be very deceived to completely ignore tons of bible scripture regarding God's commandments.

1 John 2:4 "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

Matthew 5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

1 John 3:24 "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."

Jesus knows who really loves Him. John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Jesus kept His Father Commandments, and if we are REAL Christ Followers, we will pick up our cross and follow Christ including doing what He did - and follow God's Commandments.

Lastly, here is Jesus telling us that we need to follow God's Commandments is we wish to have eternal life. Revelation 22:14"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

So, you are basically telling others on this site to ignore Jesus and God, and much of the bible scripture!

Are the "commandments" you are referring to the Old Testament laws, especially the Ten Commandments, or are they commands or charges given by Christ?

The book of Galatians addressed this legalism, and one might conclude that Paul defeated the teachers of legalism so effectively that the issue would never trouble the church again. History and experience prove otherwise! Legalism has become so important a part of Christendom that most people believe that it actually belongs.

Let's examine them one at a time. In regards to 1 John 2:4

Those who understand "knowing" in reference to salvation insist that assurance of salvation comes by obeying either the Old Testament laws or the commands of Christ in the New Testament. Those of the Reformed covenant persuasion generally see commandments as referring to the Ten Commandments, which they believe are still binding on believers as a rule of life. Interestingly, the word translated commandments is not the Greek nomos, which John reserves for the Mosaic Law. It is rather entole, meaning order, command, or change. Dispensationalists, on the other hand, do not believe the Law of Moses is binding upon believers today as a rule of life, as the way by which God deals with His people ( 2Co 3:7-11; Heb 7:11-14).*[For a full discussion of the contrasts between covenantism and dispensationalism, see Renald E. Showers, There Really Is a Difference (Bellmawr, NJ "Twenty-First Century Biblical Commentary". Marion, IA: Laridian, Inc., 2021.

All Scripture including all of Paul's letters to the churches are inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit and Jesus do not contradict each other. Paul wrote in Colossians 2:16 (KJV) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Hence why majority of Christians do not believe the Law of Moses is binding upon believers today as a rule of life, as the way by which God deals with His people ( 2Co 3:7-11; Heb 7:11-14).

Thank you Jcubria, you have explained this very important teaching very well. My regular 'go to' verses are Romans 8:1-4, which in fact should fully convince us of the abrogation of the old Law given solely to Israel, which they not only couldn't fully meet its demands, but only showed them their sinfulness & led them to death ( Romans 7:7-11). That Law could never give Life. Life can only be found in Christ & obedience to His Spirit. The Old Law required rigid obedience or suffer, but the workings of Holy Spirit in the regenerated heart now gives life, liberty, & power to obey & serve, & these remain diametrically opposed to each other. Israel of old never received the Holy Spirit to enable them to correctly obey God, hence the need for the myriad of sacrifices to avert His Wrath upon them. But Jesus was the one and only Sacrifice whereby the sinner is released from the Law & its penalties, removed from God's Condemnation, & eternal damnation & death no longer his prospect, and enables him to obey the righteousness contained within God's Holy Demands.

As the Apostle Paul stated in Romans 7:6, "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter", we see his affirmation of the futility of the Law when compared to the glory & permanence of life in obedience to the Holy Spirit. The Decalogue was simply a snapshot of some of God's Holy Requirements, & even in this short set of Commands, Israel failed miserably. But the Law given & empowered by the Spirit embraces all of God's Requirements, searching every area of a believer's heart & life, revealing sin & shortcomings, but enabling him to live unto God & not to the letter of the Law.

However, I'm not certain that the "majority of Christians do not believe the Law of Moses is binding upon believers today as a rule of life". From my experience, I've learned that many don't correctly understand this Truth.

Thank you brother Chris for your truly spirit-filled post to the thread! Your exegesis on the subject was spot on!

You wrote "However, I'm not certain that the "majority of Christians do not believe the Law of Moses is binding upon believers today as a rule of life". From my experience, I've learned that many don't correctly understand this Truth."

Sadly, I am coming to the conclusion that you are correct on this point. :(

May the Blessing of the Lord rest upon you!

Greetings Brother,

There is no instruction to Christians to keep the Sabbath. Rather the Scripture distinctly states that the Christian cannot be condemned for failing to keep it! ( Col 2:16).

4. Paul does not distinguish between the moral law and the ceremonial law. Rather, he insists that the law is a complete unit, and that a curse rests on those who seek to attain righteousness by it, yet fail to keep it all.5. Nine of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the NT as moral instruction for the children of God. They deal with things that are inherently right or wrong. The one commandment which is omitted is the law of the Sabbath. The keeping of a day is not inherently right or wrong. There is no instruction to Christians to keep the Sabbath. Rather the Scripture distinctly states that the Christian cannot be condemned for failing to keep it! ( Col 2:16).

6. The penalty for breaking the Sabbath in the OT was death (Ex35:2). But those who insist on believers keeping the Sabbath today do not carry out the penalty on offenders. They thus dishonor the law and destroy its authority by failing to insist that its demands be met. They are saying, in effect, "This is God's law and you must keep it, but nothing will happen if you break it."

7. Christ, and not the law, is the believer's rule of life. We should walk as He walked. This is an even higher standard than was set by the law ( Mt 5:17-48). We are empowered to live holy lives by the Holy Spirit. We want to live holy lives because of our love for Christ. The righteousness demanded by the law is fulfilled by those who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit (Ro 8:4). Thus, the teaching that believers must keep the Sabbath is directly contrary to Scripture ( Col 2:16), and is simply a "different gospel" upon which God's word pronounces a curse (Ga 1:7,9). "Believer's Bible Commentary".Marion, IA: Laridian, Inc., 2021.

Jcubria,

You are welcome to believe in the "Believer's Bible Commentary".Marion, IA: Laridian, Inc., 2021.

I choose to follow the God's Holy Bible KJB, and be instructed by God's Holy Spirit. I will listen to Jesus/God when he tells me to be obedient and pick my cross Matt 16:24.

I really hope you will open you heart to the true scriptures, instead of spreading man's interpretation of the scriptures as you are doing above. If/when you really pick up your cross, you will be under God's influence and His Holy Spirit - as opposed to mans/satans influence, and you will begin to learn to become obedient to God's TRUE commands, and when you do - you will know, Psalms 119:35 as you will be blessed when you DO, and you will be reprimanded when you DON"T. Proverbs 28:9 John 5:14

Learn to Fear God, this is the beginning of Wisdom! Proverbs 9:10

Read and Believe.