King James Bible
King James Version (KJV)
Bible Discussion Thread
Viewing page: 1 of 2
1 2
This comment thread is locked. Please enter a new comment below to start a new comment thread.
Note: Comment threads older than 2 months are automatically locked.
Yes , JESUS said about His commandments: What are them?
Greetings in Christ JESUS
See. Dan, like the SDA sect, interprets it literally differently from you. Actually, they interpret that just like the Pharisees, and Scribes, and Priests, our Lord JESUS also kept the Law of the 10 commandments that GOD gave to Moses and his body-the people of Israel- to keep them.
Paul the Apostle, a former Pharisee extremist, knew very well to distinguish the difference between what GOD gave to Moses and to JESUS, what was given to Moses was the dead letter of the Law, and Israel was as always a simply sinful nation, but what was given to JESUS is the Spirit of the Law, the only one capable of giving life to the disciples of Him, JESUS really FULFILLED the Law. GOD is Spirit.
By the way, the body without the Spirit is dead ( James 2:26), the dead do not praise the Lord ( Psalm 119:17), so the keepers (Jews or Gentiles) of the dead letter of the Law of Moses that lasted until John the Baptist as JESUS warned, they all are dead, and they do not praise the Lord at all, they do not believe in the revelation and determination of JESUS that the dead letter of the Law given to Moses lasted only and only until John the Baptist. period
The heavens(the 1st and 2nd heavens, i.e. the Dispensations of the Old and New Testaments(the 3rd heaven shall be still established- Luke 20:35-36, among other biblical references) and the earth(the current rebel Israel), which are now, by the same Word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against this Day of Judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Romans 2:12&14
12 For as many as have sinned without Law(the Gentiles) shall also PERISH without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be JUDGED by the Law;
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the Law, do by nature the things contained in the Law, these, having not the Law, are a Law unto themselves:
13 (For not the hearers of the Law are just before GOD, but the doers of the Law shall be justified.
Get ready
Romans 2:17-29 (KJV) 17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Paul does not distinguish between the moral law and the ceremonial law. Rather, he insists that the law is a complete unit, and that a curse rests on those who seek to attain righteousness by it, yet fail to keep it all.
Nine of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the NT as moral instruction for the children of God. They deal with things that are inherently right or wrong. The one commandment which is omitted is the law of the Sabbath. The keeping of a day is not inherently right or wrong. There is no instruction to Christians to keep the Sabbath. Rather the Scripture distinctly states that the Christian cannot be condemned for failing to keep it! ( Col 2:16).
Colossians 2:16 (KJV) 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
7Now if the dispensation of death engraved in letters on stone [the ministration of the Law], was inaugurated with such glory and splendor that the Israelites were not able to look steadily at the face of Moses because of its brilliance, [a glory] that was to fade and pass away,
8Why should not the dispensation of the Spirit [this spiritual ministry whose task it is to cause men to obtain and be governed by the Holy Spirit] be attended with much greater and more splendid glory?
9For if the service that condemns [the ministration of doom] had glory, how infinitely more abounding in splendor and glory must be the service that makes righteous [the ministry that produces and fosters righteous living and right standing with God]!
10Indeed, in view of this fact, what once had splendor [the glory of the Law in the face of Moses] has come to have no splendor at all, because of the overwhelming glory that exceeds and excels it [the glory of the Gospel in the face of Jesus Christ].
11For if that which was but passing and fading away came with splendor, how much more must that which remains and is permanent abide in glory and splendor!
Again I repeat!
Romans 13:8 (KJV) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath FULFILLED THE LAW.
Could this be what Paul who was moved and inspired by the indwelling Holy Spirit meant by loveth?
Acknowledge that love is a COMMAND (Ro 13:8-10).
Agree that you have the spiritual resources to love others as God loves you (Ro 5:5).
Understand that loving others is normal Christian behavior ( 1Jn 4:7-10).
Realize that love is the Spirit's work (Ga 5:22).
Be fervent in your love for others ( 1Pe 1:22; 4:8).
Godly love should be our highest purpose and greatest joy ( Mt 22:36-40). As you love others, you glorify Christ and make Him known to the world.
Yet, there is "Holy hatred?" If you love good, you hate evil. If you love unity, you hate discord. If you love God, you hate Satan. That's why Scripture says, "Hate evil, you who love the Lord." ( Ps 97:10)
Christ nailed the laws and sabbaths to the cross! We are done with circumcision and uncircumcision. As Christians, we need to circumcise our hearts, live by faith, and love others as the Lord loved us and gave himself for us.
William MacDonald wrote [ 1Corinthians 7:19
As far as the essence of Christianity is concerned, circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. What really counts is keeping the commandments of God. In other words, God is concerned with what is INWARD, not with what is OUTWARD. The relationships of life need not be violently forsaken by the entrance of Christianity. Rather, in the Christian faith, the believer is RAISED to a position where he is superior to all circumstances.] "Believer's Bible Commentary". Marion, IA: Laridian, Inc., 2021.
All this is one interpretation it doesn't mean there isn't room for others.
To me the sabbath can be confusing, because its somewhat tied to Jewish culture, and there are a few verses like this below that Jesus said that makes it possibly "appear" less important...
"And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" Mark 2:27 KJV
Also the people accused Jesus of breaking the sabbath like by healing people, etc. Jesus's answer:
"Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?" Luke 6:9 KJV
Jesus didn't say the sabbath no longer applies, but he seemed to push back on people criticizing him for doing good on that day. They were extremely accusatory and hypocritical and Jesus tried to clarify what the sabbath was for, that its ok to do good, and to put the Pharisees in their place. That is my current short interpretation.
You're changing the narrative to strengthen your point.
You said,
Just because you strive for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example does not mean you're trying to earn heaven.
We agree on striving for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example! When did you get that?
You also said, "You think the 10 commandments apply- obviously the argument that since Jesus it's ok to do "whatever" is a weak argument"
I've never heard anyone say that on this site, in fact for years we've made it very very clear that the commandments was Holy and they were to show man he is a sinner.
The emphasis has always been on man and his inability to keep the commandments and man's fallen sinful nature.
Is man sinful? Yes!
Has all sinned? Yes!
Romans 3:10
1 John 1:8-10.
Can the commandments make him right with God? No! Galatians 2:21.
It has never been anything close to an argument whether killing, stealing, adultery, ect was a sin or not on this site, and you know that.
There's plenty sins we make that is not listed in the 10 commandments, We sin in our mind and heart, Lack of patience and trust in God is a sin.
You can sin doing the right thing because you didn't want to. Our rebellious nature is sinful.
The Power of Christ resurrection didn't just atone for your sins, it also quickened you to live a live a productive life in Christ, pleasing to God. Romans 8:9-13.
And even with this power and energy from the Holyspirit you can't come from underneath the blood of Christ.
Scripture teaches if a man continues in sin he's not saved. You call that a straw man's argument. But I'm sure you will admit that all have sinned.
You've said no one knows whether they are saved or not until the judgment, But if we're saved by keeping the law it should be clear to you that we're all condemned considering the strictness of the law, then how do God judge his people? He'd have to compromise if Galatians 2:16 isn't true.
God bless.
The original post on this thread was concerning the Sabbath commandment and if it still needs to be obeyed.
This question said nothing about needing to obey this commandment to be saved.''
So, Adam did not change the narrative anymore or less that those who made the thread into obedience to the commands of God as a necessity for being saved. Adam is just directing the conversation into another aspect of how the moral commands of God apply to our walk in the Spirit. I have been reading this thread and was thinking just like Adam as to "Why is no one speaking of how walking in the Spirit is obeying God and how we are warned against walking according to the sinful nature that leads us to think that sinning against the moral commands of God is o.k."
So, I am glad that Adam "changed the narrative" as you say, because the tone of the thread can be perceived as he has voiced a concern about: that we can live as WE wish and not be concerned if we disobey the commandments or not because it doesn't matter. I can see that this can easily be deduced from what many have posted on this thread, especially those who are young in the faith or who have had deep entanglements in sinful lifestyles. So, I think that the Adam's "take" on this subject is needed and anyone who walks by the Spirit ought to agree with him.
S. Spencer, I do not wish to get into a long exchange with you on this as I think much has already been said in this thread and between us in the past on this topic. I know you are passionate about this topic from the angle you present, and I agree that we do not obey God to earn salvation nor His favor. And I agree with Adam that we who walk according the Spirit within us should be living life of moral obedience to God as well as one that follows the lead of the Spirit in every personal experience, to will and do ALL that one is called to do or not to do as the Spirit shows us.
For me, presenting both of these angles is important here.
pt 1
You stated, "The original post on this thread was concerning the Sabbath commandment and if it still needs to be obeyed.
This question said nothing about needing to obey this commandment to be saved.'' End quote.
I wasn't talking about the thread when I said what I said to Adam.
Adam wasn't answering the original question by the poster. Adam was stating his position that he has held since I have been on this site.
Here is what Adam quoted and has been quoting every time the topic comes up.
obviously, the argument that since Jesus it's ok to do "whatever" is a weak argument, because that would then mean its ok to kill people, lie, have affairs, etc. END QUOTE.
That has been Adam response and rebuttal in spite of what people say! Anytime someone ask can you lose your salvation or says anything about the commandments, that has been Adams response.
Salvation by Christ alone and the works of the flesh has been the topic on this site and on several threads for several days now.
You said you are glad that Adam "changed the narrative" because the tone of the thread can be perceived as he has voiced a concern about.
Where did anyone give the indication by their response to that it was alright to kill people, lie, have affairs, etc.
I don't know what you are missing, these conversations have always been about Salvation.
You said for you, presenting both of these angles is important here.
Haven't you read my previous post concerning this topic, and others?
Adam said he thinks the 10 commandments apply- obviously the argument that since Jesus it's ok to do "whatever" is a weak argument, because that would then mean it's ok to kill people, lie, have affairs, etc. This statement is what my rebuttal to Adam is about.
When the question is asked directly, (does one have to keep the 10 commandments to be saved?)
That is when they show up with the answers and statement we are disputing about.
It has been going on for years.
See pt 2
You said, The original post on this thread was concerning the Sabbath commandment and if it still needs to be obeyed.
This question said nothing about needing to obey this commandment to be saved.''
But your reply to Adam after my comment had nothing to do with the Sabbath, it was about obeying the 10 commandments.
We've debated with Adam over the years that if a guy does the things he says, "continuing in sin, no repentance, Killing, stealing, ect. that person not a saved person at all.
Adam calls that a straw man's Argument. I'm not partial at all Gigi. I'm sorry but these views that Adam and Bro Dan hold is NOT Christianity at all. Salvation consists of Sanctification by the Spirit.
Gigi, I've seen you take a stand with him whether he's right or wrong. He has argued against the grace of God since I have been on this site.
The other day I apologized to you in the way I treated you a few weeks ago for telling you that your approach to scripture was carnal and that you show partiality, and it shows in your comments. I felt I presented myself in a way that I shouldn't have even though it is true. I felt I was wrong because I did it with no regards to your feelings. And yet here you go again. Your doubling down on this approach clears my conscience.
He is not saying that some newbie is going to get wind of what's being said and say it's okay to sin. He's accusing us of saying that!
How can a person say you are saved by faith but yet no one knows that they are saved until Judgment? What is your faith applied to? Keeping the law or Christ finished work on the cross?
We are saved unto good works; Salvation comes with sanctification. They come against the very core of Christianity, and you do too if you agree with them when they say you have to keep the 10 commandments to be saved.
We keep what commandments apply to us because we are saved.
God bless.
I have never said that one needs to keep the 10 commandments to be saved.
So, if Adam and Bro Dan say this, then I disagree with this belief.
I agree with you that it is only by grace are we saved. It is a gift from God we receive with open hands, bringing nothing to God as to earn this salvation.
And I agree that we obey God as a result of this gift of salvation by grace. This I have always stood for.
My point in my post was that I think that people saying that God's moral commands do not apply to us can lead people to think that we are free to sin without repentance since we are no longer under law but grace. I know people who think this way.
As for me, the Holy Spirit leads me to live a godly life of faith in the finished work of Christ. My obedience to the moral commands of Jesus to love God wholly and to love others deeply from the heart so as to do them no harm is done in obedience to the Holy Spirit in me, not as a legalism, but as one who has been given the liberty to walk God's way in obedience.
In my post I did state how I agree with you and how I agree with Adam. I was not taking any person's "side" on this issue.
I am not sure what you mean be me having a "carnal" approach. Please explain.
I do not wish to rehash past conversations here because any offenses have been forgiven and settled from my perspective.
I know that there are many things we agree on and some things we don't. This is the way with all believer's who study God's word. That is why we attempt to discuss what we think we've learned from Scripture here. So, instead of evaluating one another's hearts and minds, we should be judging what we write here according to what the Scriptures say. And we should be careful of any hostility towards one another in our thoughts, hearts, and words spoken on here.
Take care, Steven, I know that you are working, so I do appreciate the time you take to respond.
Thanks for your reply, I've been on a two-day work trip and couldn't find time to engage.
I thought you were giving these guys a break on their belief because they are friends of yours. I also consider them as friends of mine, and I care for them as well, but I won't compromise because this is far to important. Bro Dan and I have had a friendly debate in the past, before you joined the site.
Adam and Chris were the two guys that stood out and influenced me when I joined the site a few years ago. I have a lot of respect for Adam and his zeal for truth and righteousness. I just believe he on the wrong side of Salvation if holds to anything other than salvation is by grace alone.
If I was to take those positive things they display and act if those things trump the belief of salvation by grace and join their side in this debate fearing I might defend them. I would be putting before God, Thats Carnal.
I have to go now. My wife is kidnapping me.
I will be back later.
God bless.
They have stuck to this position for years.
When it comes to Salvation it should be clear.
There's NO straddling the fence. Salvation comes before sanctification by the Spirit. If someone asks me, by what means am I saved I want my answer to be clear!
I'd rather lose them as a friend than to mislead them.
I don't try to win a popularity contest. I don't turn away and pretend I'm confused at what someone is saying so I don't have to tell them they're wrong.
You say you wants to present both sides to this view. Well, that was already settled.
The debate was never " should we obey God's commandment once saved, it was do we obey God's commandment to get saved.
Here is a portion of Bro Dan's quote to you;
"So this really puts to rest the argument by a few on this site; that believe following God's Commandments aren't necessary, or that when we follow them, or encourage others to do so, we are trying to create/work for our own salvation. As you implied, we are living in the Spirt and being obedient to our God. Amen. End quote;
Being obedient to our God "by the spirit" never was the debate!
He stated a few on this site; that believe following God's Commandments aren't necessary.
That was never said, where did he get that from?
He would have been more accurate if he would have said, a few on this site; believe that God's Commandments weren't given for salvation, and no one is able to keep them because of the weekness of our flesh.
If we all were saying the same thing, "that we obey and love God's precepts and commands by the Spirit why or we in a debate at all?
And why is there so much push back when one says, We are saved by grace alone APART FROM THE lAW when that's what Paul says?
But perhaps it has been, I may be wrong about that.
If you want to begin a thread by asking this question, go ahead.
Or if you want to begin a thread with the question, "Are people saved by grace alone?
Then the thread can focus only on such questions. But this was not the case in this thread. I think You assumed that the debate was on whether one needs to obey the 10 commandments to be saved. But that is not how I understood this thread to be about totally.
I disagree that I am straddling the fence on this issue. I have always stated that we are saved by grace alone and that we obey the commands of God because of this grace given to us. It provides us with the power to say "Yes" to what is godly and "No" to what is not. The regenerative work of the Holy Spirit gives us the power to resist sin and the devil when before regeneration we could not do so. Our obedience is an ongoing work of sanctification through the Holy Spirit, but we do not put our will aside and in doing so the Holy Spirit does the obedience for us. WE do it, with the power and conviction of the Holy Spirit. Our will is changed by our regeneration from hating good and loving evil to loving good and hating evil. Aa a believer we will increasingly be more and more Christ-like in all of our thoughts, words, and deeds. We will more and more do what the Holy Spirit leads us to do so that we do not sin by omission.
S. Spencer, do you have any problem with what I have stated above? If so let me know. If not, then take your debate to someone else because I don't think we need to do so. I think we agree on the relationship of grace and obedience in the life of the believer, don't we?
Thanks for your explanation.
If you think I was trying to not offend Adam or Bro Dan in what I said or if you think I was defending a salvation by grace plus works doctrine, I was not. Sorry if you interpreted my post that way. I was defending what Jesus said concerning that people who love Him keep His commandments, as that seemed to be the original idea of the first posting on the thread.
While I respect you, you again are claiming to know my intentions and judging me to be taking a carnal approach. You are wrong about me and to do this type of judging is also wrong.
That said, we are to evaluate what people do say here without trying to read into what one says and also, it is good practice stick to what is said in the actual present thread.
I hope you have a good day with your wife today. My hubby and I will probably be out and about this day, too.
Steven, you are my friend here, and I am glad to know you.
I believe we both was sending our messages at the same time.
I was in the middle of a 3 page message answering your question on carnal approach.
I took a break from further readings until now.
After reading your messages I wish I hadn't answered that and walked away.
God bless.
I am back from a few errands; I will now continue.
I believe carnality shows up in several different ways. Here's a few "Filled with strife, envy, and division, Unable to digest solid spiritual food. Self-centeredness, one that continues in sin. ext.
Don't worry I am not accusing you of all of these.
I do you have shown some signs of "Unable to digest solid spiritual food. Self-centeredness" and there are a few other things I wouldn't care to get into at the moment like partiality, and prideful at times.
Here is why I say that.
Gigi when we declare to others what we think we have achieved in the flesh, we must be careful we are not robbing God of his glory.
you present yourself as a person entering your life as an adult that never had need if repentance by carrying your salvation all the way back to the age of 6.
Gigi at that age everyone was covered by God's mercy because of our youthful ignorance of our fallen nature, and full understanding of what the blood of Christ did in our behalf on the cross. so, give him that glory. That if you believe there's an age of accountability for the individual. If not, does a child at the age of six goes to hell if he dies?
This carnal mindset causes us to also look at the vessel and not who fashioned it.
Also.
When you go through the OT as you have been doing (with your own interpretation) and have been studying scripture and walking with God for 60 years as you say, It seems there should be more expected of you being that you present yourself as an expert in scripture when you attempt to correct and grade people on their theology.
Because by the time one goes through the entire Bible that long and have been LED BY THE SPIRIT, you should be sound in your doctrine and wisdom by the time you get into the New Testament.
If you are mature, understand and recognize the Gospel, you should know when someone is not preaching it.
need more space.
I do believe that is great advice.
It's exactly what I am working on.
I haven't read anything from the site besides your post.
Here's where truth hurts both sides.
I believe sometimes one can be over zealous in an area.
But truth in the doctrine of salvation is not one of them.
Thanks again and God bless you.
Much love.
I give God the praise for having given me salvation since I was a so very young. I did nothing to earn it nor was I so wise to understand it in depth. You sure have read so much prejudice into my statements, Steven. I have never said that I am an expert in Bible knowledge nor in interpretation. You are assuming that I think this or present this but are in error.
As I have said many times, we are to think the best of others. You are failing to do that with me. You are actually attacking my character here and have done so in the recent past. This surprises me. When I have presented statements that are in agreement with you, you are kind to me. But if my statement varies from yours, you seem to have a difficult time with that.
I am trying not to be overly sensitive here and I desire for us to be at peace. But being at peace takes respect on the side of both of us.
All I can say at this point is that all of those things you accused me of, I think you should take a good, honest look at yourself.
I think at this point, I am done speaking to you concerning this thread as it has become hostile from your side. I wish you well and look forward to having more gracious conversations with you in the future. The Holy Spirit will be the one to correct either of us of any ways we have sinned in our participation on this forum and towards each other. I welcome such correction from the Holy Spirit. He is never wrong.
You mentioned me in your post above, so I felt that I should respond to you, as you have always been honest, sincere, and open regarding the scriptures.
Jesus informs us and provides us with warnings in the following in scripture:
Matthew 19:17 "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
Jesus tells us above if we want to enter into life - keep the commandments.
Revelation 22:14"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
If we want to have the right to the tree of life, and enter through the gates into the city we will do His Commandments. Jesus is stating: will do His Commandments. Who is Jesus referring to when he say His? God.
Both of these verses are spoken by Jesus, and both are commanding us (Christians) to keep God's Commandments if we wish to receive eternal life.
It can't get much clearer than this scripture, and the scripture itself will convict unbelievers.
The only possible argument on the above scripture would be how do we accomplish following God's Commandments. A Born Again Christian is following these Commandments via God's Holy Spirit, not of their own accord. Per this verse: 1 John 3:24
"And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."
So this really puts to rest the argument by a few on this site; that believe following God's Commandments aren't necessary, or that when we follow them, or encourage others to do so, we are trying to create/work for our own salvation. As you implied, we are living in the Spirt and being obedient to our God. Amen
Jesus/God shines the light for us, all we have to do is believe and follow it!
GBU
pt. 2
so, when I heard the gospel preached to me since infancy, I know that God made it efficacious to me because of what is said in Romans 1. Being an infant did make the hearing of it ineffective because it depends on God's power and will, not on someone's age, will, or even ability to comprehend what God has done for us in Christ. I am thankful for my upbringing and the witness of my parents and church from the time I was born on.
I say all this to emphasize that the gospel has always been a part of my life as well as the teachings of the ten commandments. Like most parents, they taught me what God said is right and wrong. As a child, I never doubted my salvation in Jesus even when I was convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit. I always knew I could go to Jesus and admit I did wrong against Him and others. My life was shaped by both Law and Gospel. They each have their place in the life of a believer. The Law shows us our sin and need for forgiveness. It shows us the moral path we are to follow to glorify God. The gospel brings us the message of salvation in Jesus Christ and causes us to become born again by the Holy Spirit. Oh, how gracious God has been to me all of my life!
The Holy Spirit giving me the desire to do God's will by living a godly life brings blessings to those who live this way. We do not do this to earn salvation because that is impossible. But we live this way because we love God above all others and love others as Jesus did in His earthly life. We can never love as God loves. His love is far beyond how we could ever love in this life. But, by the power of the gospel, the indwelling of the Spirit, and the teachings of the living word of God in Scripture, I can become more and more like Jesus,
Any righteous moral command of God is for us. It reveals His holiness and will for us to be "holy as He is holy." We owe Him our obedience, not to pay for our salvation, but as gratitude for all He has done to redeem us as His children.
as for me, I will follow the commands of my Lord because He tells me to in His word. I believe him! it is the Holy spirit in me that causes me to desire to do God's will and having these commands show me the kind of character we ought to have because it is the character of Jesus whom we are to imitate, be a light to the nations, that others will see the good that we do and glorify God.
So, I have no problem at all in leaning on the Holy Spirit to help me have the mind of Christ, to do what He has said is the loving thing to do against what He said is not loving actions towards God or humans. From a very young age I have loved the commands of God because by knowing them, the Spirit reminds me of the command I am breaking when I am acting against loving Him and others. Being a believer all of my life, knowing what God says is righteous actions has helped to shape my character and approach to life.
I know that the law is good, but that we cannot meet its demands by along shot. I know that it is only Jesus who has done so perfectly. So I, and all believers, need to cast ourselves onto the mercy and grace of Jesus to receive righteousness before God now and on the day of final judgment. I know that the law was given to drive us to Jesus for salvation because we realize by the working of the Holy Spirit that we are sinful and in need of God's mighty work of salvation in Christ.
I don't know how it is for those who came to Christ as adults, but for me, having come to Him even before I could understand it all has blessed me. The earliest memory I have of the gospel and the character of God is when I was 6 and we talked about why God made me and what Jesus did for us. I know that I had been told this repeatedly by my parents and church prior to 6 years old, but that is as far back as I can remember. I believe what Paul wrote in Romans 1: that the preaching and hearing of the gospel is the power of God to save. ...cont.
>It has never been anything close to an argument whether killing, stealing, adultery, ect was a sin or not on this site, and you know that.
"and you know that"?
What an unusual comment from you. Surely you're not pretending to know my thoughts that only God knows?
I stand by what I wrote and God knows your heart and motives for every word you say. It's a fact that Christians often try to justify sin through clever little cherry picking of verses and this occurs on this site. There was someone just recently who wrote it's impossible for Christians to sin and that our actions don't matter. This is a false teaching. It's unusual that you claimed "never been anything close to an argument..." because that's obviously untrue.
I'm not sure whether you haven't read some of these threads on this or just generally denying it. Christians sinning was such a big deal that's why Jesus warned His followers so much about it over and over, including through parables. If it wasn't such a big deal, Jesus wouldn't have repeated this over and over. John 8:11 "go, and sin no more" etc.
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
The truth needs to be shared on this forum, because there is a lot of misinformation and lies often repeated. Satan loves deceiving Christians and getting them to do his work. I feel led by the spirit to warn Christians, because people are ignoring Jesus's words and time is running out. John 14:15 Most people in the US call themselves "Christian" but Jesus says most people will go to hell. Jesus will help go after his true followers (sheep), but He doesn't go after wolves to "save" them, and He doesn't go after wolves in sheep's clothing. Matthew 7:13-21
We have debated on this topic now for years. whether if a person can lose their salvation or do you have to keep the 10 commandments to be saved.
We have made it very clear in these discussions that it is not ok to continue in sin.
Nevertheless, However that discussion goes you say we are saying that it is ok to sin.
I wish you would make yourself clear.
Im off to work. God bless.
Who is "we" ?
Sorry for such a late response.
Myself and several others on this site have debated this topic often and when debating you we've made it very clear that if a person is continuing in habitual sin, he is not likely a saved person.
Adam, God chastise those that are his. He don't let his children get away with sin.
Where you say a Christian can lose his salvation, We've said Everyone Professing Christianity is not saved, siting Matthew 7:21-23 and highlighting verse 23 "And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".
Jesus said he knows his sheep.
He also said I will never leave or forsake us.
John 10:27.
Hebrews 13:5.
I've also referred people to this portion of scripture concerning this debated topic.
Romans 5:20 through Romans 6:4.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Goodnight and God bless.
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1 KJV
No condemnation for who? "to them which are in Christ Jesus"
How about those who aren't really "in" Christ Jesus, but just familiar. Maybe someone's "saved" 30 years ago and inactive since? Maybe doing worldly things here and there, but hey we're all sinners, right? Maybe I'm just following the holy spirit, so its not my fault for indulging in sin sometimes, right?" [satan's deception]
"no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh"
"I'm still saved if I walk after the flesh though, right?"
"who walk not after the flesh"
This is a qualifier. It doesn't say there's no condemnation to anyone and everyone. It also says those who walk not after the flesh. Those who aren't actively, intentionally sinning. Sinning is turning your back on God. Sinning is like slapping Jesus in the face. Satan is trying to convince Christians that the law doesn't apply, that it's ok to sin. It's not ok. Sin leads to death and still will without Jesus. That is not a license to sin, however. Following Jesus means being a "slave" to righteousness- an intentional effort to take Jesus seriously and truly follow Him. Many say it, few do it. Just because you strive for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example does not mean you're trying to earn heaven. This is the number one straw man argument people keep repeating over and over. Some even take it to the extreme where they say God doesn't want you to obey Him. "It's bad to obey God, and good to NOT obey Him." Who does that sound like?
Some cherry pick scripture and ignore the following and obedience part. We're still saved by grace.
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matthew 5:17 KJV
"not come to destroy"
Luke 6:46 - real followers obey
I agree with you.
Legalism is doing what is right in order to earn salvation. It is following man-made requirements to earn God's favor.
It is not legalism to walk in obedience to God by the working of the Holy Spirit. Those who obey the 10 commandments are doing what God wills and showing the world what Jesus was like in that He fulfilled the Law in every way.
We obey the 10 commandments so that we are treating one another with love, grace, and mercy as well as giving God the glory and worship He alone deserves.
Many have taken this discussion in the direction of it is not necessary to obey the 10 commandments as a way to be saved" and most of us agree with that, so perhaps it is time to discuss how obeying the 10 commandments fulfills God's will for us in our daily lives, as you have proposed.
The discussion on the relationship of the 10 commandments to salvation has been discussed thoroughly and at length, but not everyone has presented their argument in such terms which makes it seem that we do not need to live our lives according to God's moral commands.
Some people balk at the term "need" in reference to obeying the 10 commandments, as if using the term "need" means that we obey them in order to secure salvation. But that is not necessarily the case. As believers we do need to be obedient to God and turn from sin in order to fulfill the commands Jesus summed up in Matt. 22:34-40: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and love your neighbor as yourself. These two commands gather together the whole moral law of God.
In Matt. 5:17-20, our Lord warns against breaking even the least of the commandments and instructing anyone else to disobey these commandments.
Jesus was very clear about our obligation to God to be obedient. If we don't think we need to follow God's rules for right living then we have made ourselves our god and the determiner of right from wrong. We are to be slaves to righteousness. God is our sovereign.
You are right.
What readers of Scriptures must understand is that there is a great difference between the letter of the Law and the Spirit of the Law.The letter of the Law that was given by GOD to the people of Israel through Moses, it was and is dead, so what did matter and still matters and prevails was and is the Spirit of the Law given by GOD,the Word,Father of my Lord JESUS Christ,GOD is Spirit, as all can see by the doctrine of JESUS in Mat.5:17-48.
The dead letter of the Law says:Thou shalt not kill .period
Christ's Spirit says:Mat.5:21-26
21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time,Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the Judgment:
22But I say unto you,That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause,shall be in danger of the Judgment:and whosoever shall say to his brother,Raca,shall be in danger of the council:but whosoever shall say,Thou fool,shall be in danger of hell fire.
23/24 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother,and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou are in the way with him;lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge,and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26Verily I say unto thee,Thou shalt by no means come out thence,till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
The letter of the Law says:Thou shalt not commit adultery .period
JESUS said:Mat.5:28-32
28 Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
31 It was said,Whosoever shall put away his wife,let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you,That whosoever shall put away his wife,saving for the cause of fornication,causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
[Comment Removed]