Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Chowell2 - 1 year ago
    How do you help someone who doesn't believe Jesus is God?
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Chowell2

    Jesus proclaimed Himself to be the "Alpha and Omega" in

    Revelation 1:8;

    Revelation 21:6; and

    Revelation 22:13.

    Alpha and omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet.

    It's common to use the first and the last letters of the Hebrew alphabet to denote the whole of anything from beginning to end. Jesus as the beginning and end of all things is a reference to no one but God!

    This statement of eternality could apply only to God.

    It is equivalent to saying He always existed and always will.

    The phrase also identifies Him as the God of the Old Testament. Isaiah ascribes this aspect of Jesus' nature as part of the triune God in several places. "I, the Lord, am the first, and with the last I am He" Isaiah 41:4.

    "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God"

    Isaiah 44:6.

    I am he; I am the first, I also am the last" Isaiah 48:12.

    I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY. Revelation 1:8

    I hope this helps.

    God bless.
  • Rainwalker - In Reply - 1 year ago
    One of the issues that confuses people, is that of "oneness". One is a covenant relationship and something that is quite unfamiliar in the days which we live. A man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife and the two shall be one flesh. One doesn't mean the "same". When Jesus said, I and my father are one, it was clearly.. I will do my Father's will no matter what. Marriage is a "picture" (or should be) of a covenant, one flesh, unfortunately we have in a large part failed to illustrate this in modern life.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hi Rainwalker,

    I agree, also we who are in Christ shall be one to do His will.

    John 17:20-23 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hello again Rainwalker.

    Ran out of space, but to complete my post: ...you will find that Jesus speaks of the Father and Spirit as other than Himself, as distinct real Persons that exist simultaneously forever. And you will read Him using the terms He, me, us, we, Him, His, my, mine which indicate that He is speaking of persons distinct from Himself all existing at the time He was speaking. He also speaks of the oneness and unity of the Father and the Spirit with Himself, indicating that they are truly one Being, the Godhead.

    This is how I understand the Oneness, Unity, and Persons that are the Godhead spoken of in Scriptures.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Rainwalker,

    Glad to meet you. I agree that the oneness of marriage is a covenantal unity, with two distinct people being made one. But I also believe that there is a uniting of the two in a way that only God knows and does.

    In the case of Jesus and the Father in the verse you quoted, the oneness shared by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the divine essence of the One being of the Godhead. There are three distinct persons, but One Divine Being. Each person possesses the divine essence that identifies them as True God together, and they possess this essence each in infinite fullness and wholeness. It is a mystery to us. But Scriptures says clearly that God is One, meaning one being AND one in unity. The Scriptures also say clearly that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons in this unity, all are divine, but there are not three gods, but One Being who is God. Jesus said in Matthew 28:19 that the disciples are to baptize believers in the NAME of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. This Godhead, three divine Persons in One Being, is YHWH, the True and Living God, the Most High God, the Almighty God, the Creator of all things.

    The Persons of the Godhead are relationally in each other. They are in communion with each other. They are united in will and purpose. They possess all divine attributes corporately and individually. Jesus said that the Father is in Him and He is in the Father ( Jn. 14:10). Vs. 15 says that He (Jesus) speaks but the Father does the work that the disciples see Jesus do (they work in unity) In vs. 23 Jesus says that the Father and Himself will make their abode in those who love Him, yet it is the Spirit who is said to dwell in us. So, if the Spirit lives in us, so does, Jesus and the Father, in every believer. Yet, at the same time, God fills the universe and is everywhere present. In Jn. 15:23 Jesus says that he who hateth Him hateth His Father. If you read all of the Last Supper Discourse you will find that: ..
  • Chowell2 - In Reply - 1 year ago
    When someone believes God is not Jesus and sees the word begotten and the son of man in the Bible as describing God and Jesus is not one.
  • Chris - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hello Chowell2. From what you've written, I'm assuming that this person you mentioned sees that God & Jesus must be two distinct persons, since one is Spirit & the other Flesh (i.e. as a regular human being). So if this is the case, then the Divine & the human cannot unite, refuting the belief that they are one, or united in any way.

    In the first instance, I would direct you to Matthew 1:18-25, which speaks of this 'Divine Birth'. The question one should ask from this passage is: 'how did this Baby named Jesus, come to be born into the world?' Your contact could well say, that He was born as any human baby is born, by human fertilization, development in the womb, & then entrance into the world. But look at verse 18: before Joseph could have sexual intimacy with his wife, Mary was found with child, not because of any unfaithfulness by her to Joseph, but that God had placed in her this Divine Seed by the Power of His Holy Spirit. And then in verse 23, Jesus' Birth was in fulfillment of prophecy that a virgin would miraculously bring forth a Son & He would be called (i.e. by his title), Emmanuel. And this Name means, God with us.

    This passage alone should convince anyone that this birth was an extraordinary one. There has never been any person born into the world that would come as Jesus did, because Jesus' Birth was directly executed by God: God taking His Word, sending His Word into the World by clothing Himself (God's Word) with the flesh of man ( John 1:1-14) - for the purpose of sacrifice for our sins. Yes, Jesus was fully Human as we are, but we are the product of our parents - Jesus came from God's Own Person & not from humans ( John 17:5, "...O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was"). So yes, Jesus was "the only begotten" & also called "the Son of Man" which indicates His Humanity, but the question, 'what was Jesus' origin, given the Scriptures about His Divine Nature & His Works?'
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Dear Chowell 2,

    Glad you are here.

    David and Jema have steered you correctly.

    Knowing where Scripture says that Jesus is God is what you use to show that Jesus is God. John 1 speaks of Him as God. You could look this up online by asking: Scripture verses that mention Jesus is God for you to get a listing for your study and your friend can benefit from you showing all the places in Scripture that indicate that Jesus is God and a one of the three persons of the Godhead.
  • GiGi - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Dear Chowell 2,

    Glad you are here.

    David and Jema have steered you correctly.

    Knowing where Scripture says that Jesus is God is what you use to show that Jesus is God. John 1 speaks of Him as God. You could look this up online by asking: Scripture verses that mention Jesus is God
  • David0921 - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Good morning Chowell2,

    The best advice I can give to anyone on any subject related to the nature of God and our relationship to God is this:

    Read the Bible. Read the Bible. Read the Bible.

    Be mindful of the fact that when you do this you are sitting at the feet of Almighty God Himself. And as you read, this is God speaking directly to you.

    Read the Whole Bible, Old Testament and New Testament BOTH. Some would have you believe that we don't need to pay much attention to the Old Testament; nothing could be further from the truth. 2 Timothy 3:16 ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    Notice God is saying ALL SCRIPTURE. Not just the New Testament or some particular part of the Bible.

    Pray God as you read that He might open your understanding; and that He might work in your heart "to will and to do of His good pleasure" as He would give you understanding. Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    May the LORD richly bless you.
  • Jema - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Hello Chowell2 , that's a good question ! I will answer it with a question , why do you believe that Jesus is God ? Is it because someone told you ? Or is your belief based on overwhelming Biblical evidence ? If your belief is based on overwhelming Biblical evidence , then that's the way to go , show them why you believe what you do . The Bible should be every Christians authority regarding their beliefs . There are very very many people who do not believe that Jesus is God , you could ask them why they believe this and ask them to back up their beliefs from the Bible . Always look to the Bible when it comes to your beliefs , if you are not familiar with the Bible , then someone who is , is going to run rings around you in a debate :) . You can't rely on what someone has told you , you must know your subject if you hope to convince anyone of anything .



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