Yes, I think it's time to leave this part of the discussion David 0921. But just to close this, & respond to your 'difficulty in processing my submission', I liken the repentance of the Ninevites to the repentance of Israel (when they did on those rare occasions). When both repented before God for their wicked & wayward ways, God forgave them. If they didn't repent, punishment, as promised, would be certain. Israel & the Ninevites were spared punishment when they repented.
Can we honestly deduce from those two peoples & accounts, that their repentance eventually led them to salvation (looking forward to the Cross)? You may believe that this is how the account should be read & understood. Unfortunately, my understanding of how the OT (true) Israel & those believers post-Cross came to be accepted, cleansed, & brought into God's family is different, though certainly, the Cross is the focus that made it all happen. So blessings to you too brother as we walk together on this great journey of new life granted only by God's Mercies to us.
We know for a certainty that these 120000 Ninevites were saved because of Matthew 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
All True Believers will be resurrected and raptured to usher in the final judgment at the Last Day in condemnation of those that have not been saved. Their very resurrection and rapture is in itself a condemnation. This is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. I believe there is no other Biblical way to understand Matt 12:41.
Also, the Bible clearly teaches that the brokenness before God and repentance exhibited by these Ninevits is an Essential characteristic of those that God saves. They are in fact, one of the most dramatic pictures and examples of Salvation that we find in the Bible.
God is also demonstrating in this picture that He does not require an extensive knowledge of scripture to be saved. But He does require a "broken and contrite heart" and recognition of our sinful condition and need for God's Mercy, which can only come from God Himself.
Thanks for that comment David0921. I do understand that verse differently to you. Actually, I see that the Ninevites are already under God's Judgement (except those who may actually have had repentance over their sins & coming destruction, to a real heart seeking after this God of Israel). While under judgement ( Matthew 12:41), they will condemn 'this generation' for not believing in Christ & His message, just as they had believed & repented because of Jonah's preaching to them. I don't see that the Ninevites were saved because of what happened when Jonah was with them, since there is no further word as to how they were brought into a knowledge of God & His demands upon people. All they knew was that they had repented & were saved then - how they will fare in their coming Judgement can only then be speculation, just as whether the Queen of Sheba is also saved, she who will rise in judgement against these Jews.
Thank you for responding. Let me say that in having this dialogue with you I'm not focusing on you personally. But your understanding regarding the nature of the Bible is, I believe, quite typical of the view held by many in that it is "Dispensational" in its approach to scripture with which I do not agree. And fails to fully recognize that God Himself, the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the One True God is, in fact, the AUTHOR of the ENTIRE Bible.
And that in order to come to Truth regarding any subject in the Bible, we must look at everything the Bible declares regarding that subject. In order to understand the Commandments given in the Old Testament, we must view them in the light of the New Testament. I order to understand the Commandments given in the New Testament, we must view them in the light of the Old Testament. In order to come to Truth, We CANNOT isolate the one from the other as many are want to do.
God's revelation in regards to the Law, Judgement, Salvation, Israel, the Church, the Great Tribulation, the End of the World, any doctrine is "progressive". And we CANNOT come to Truth if we isolate any part of the Bible from any other.
For example, the Commandments of Jesus CANNOT be separated from the Commandments of the Old Testament. They are a commentary on each other. In fact the Commandments of the Old Testament are every bit the Commandments of Jesus as those in the New Testament. Psalm 119 is every bit as applicable to the New Testament Believers as to the Old Testament Believers. The Salvation of the New Testament is the Salvation of the Old Testament.
To be "under the Law" or to be "free from the Law" has the same meaning for Old Testament Believers as New Testament Believers. And if I'm understanding what you are saying, your understanding of these terms is not what the Bible is teaching. More on this later but I'm out of space and time for now.
May God in His Mercy lead us into Truth from His Word.
Hi , I think I'm confused with regards to his subject . Are you saying that if any of us can keep the ten commandments that that would mean we were sinless ?
I'm not saying that at all and the Bible does not teach that. But the 10 Commandments are part of God's Law. And if God has "saved" us, we will have an ernest and ongoing desire to be obedient to the Law of God as set forth in the Bible. And this is because God has given us a new Resurrected Soul in which we will earnestly desire to be obedient to the Law of God. Our new Soul, however, resides in a Body that has undergone no change and still lusts after sin, and will until we die physically or Christ returns to complete our Salvation in the Resurrection and Rapture of all True Believers at the Last Day. Hence, the conflict that God, through the Apostle Paul, declares. And we are to "crucify the flesh and its desires". This is called "growing in Grace".
But let me again emphasize that our desire and any obedience to God's Law should never be looked upon as initiating or contributing anything whatsoever to our Salvation. Our Salvation is 100% the work of Christ, God Himself.
Our obedience is the RESULT and the EVIDENCE of our Salvation. Never the CAUSE nor the REASON for our salvation.
If you are referring Psalm 119, I believe this should be the attitude and prayer of every True Believer. And it is also, I think, a Messianic Psalm, to some degree at least, as Christ has done all of this perfectly on our behalf if He has saved us.
Can we honestly deduce from those two peoples & accounts, that their repentance eventually led them to salvation (looking forward to the Cross)? You may believe that this is how the account should be read & understood. Unfortunately, my understanding of how the OT (true) Israel & those believers post-Cross came to be accepted, cleansed, & brought into God's family is different, though certainly, the Cross is the focus that made it all happen. So blessings to you too brother as we walk together on this great journey of new life granted only by God's Mercies to us.
We know for a certainty that these 120000 Ninevites were saved because of Matthew 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
All True Believers will be resurrected and raptured to usher in the final judgment at the Last Day in condemnation of those that have not been saved. Their very resurrection and rapture is in itself a condemnation. This is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. I believe there is no other Biblical way to understand Matt 12:41.
Also, the Bible clearly teaches that the brokenness before God and repentance exhibited by these Ninevits is an Essential characteristic of those that God saves. They are in fact, one of the most dramatic pictures and examples of Salvation that we find in the Bible.
God is also demonstrating in this picture that He does not require an extensive knowledge of scripture to be saved. But He does require a "broken and contrite heart" and recognition of our sinful condition and need for God's Mercy, which can only come from God Himself.
[Comment Removed]
[Comment Removed]
Thank you for responding. Let me say that in having this dialogue with you I'm not focusing on you personally. But your understanding regarding the nature of the Bible is, I believe, quite typical of the view held by many in that it is "Dispensational" in its approach to scripture with which I do not agree. And fails to fully recognize that God Himself, the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the One True God is, in fact, the AUTHOR of the ENTIRE Bible.
And that in order to come to Truth regarding any subject in the Bible, we must look at everything the Bible declares regarding that subject. In order to understand the Commandments given in the Old Testament, we must view them in the light of the New Testament. I order to understand the Commandments given in the New Testament, we must view them in the light of the Old Testament. In order to come to Truth, We CANNOT isolate the one from the other as many are want to do.
God's revelation in regards to the Law, Judgement, Salvation, Israel, the Church, the Great Tribulation, the End of the World, any doctrine is "progressive". And we CANNOT come to Truth if we isolate any part of the Bible from any other.
For example, the Commandments of Jesus CANNOT be separated from the Commandments of the Old Testament. They are a commentary on each other. In fact the Commandments of the Old Testament are every bit the Commandments of Jesus as those in the New Testament. Psalm 119 is every bit as applicable to the New Testament Believers as to the Old Testament Believers. The Salvation of the New Testament is the Salvation of the Old Testament.
To be "under the Law" or to be "free from the Law" has the same meaning for Old Testament Believers as New Testament Believers. And if I'm understanding what you are saying, your understanding of these terms is not what the Bible is teaching. More on this later but I'm out of space and time for now.
May God in His Mercy lead us into Truth from His Word.
I'm not saying that at all and the Bible does not teach that. But the 10 Commandments are part of God's Law. And if God has "saved" us, we will have an ernest and ongoing desire to be obedient to the Law of God as set forth in the Bible. And this is because God has given us a new Resurrected Soul in which we will earnestly desire to be obedient to the Law of God. Our new Soul, however, resides in a Body that has undergone no change and still lusts after sin, and will until we die physically or Christ returns to complete our Salvation in the Resurrection and Rapture of all True Believers at the Last Day. Hence, the conflict that God, through the Apostle Paul, declares. And we are to "crucify the flesh and its desires". This is called "growing in Grace".
But let me again emphasize that our desire and any obedience to God's Law should never be looked upon as initiating or contributing anything whatsoever to our Salvation. Our Salvation is 100% the work of Christ, God Himself.
Our obedience is the RESULT and the EVIDENCE of our Salvation. Never the CAUSE nor the REASON for our salvation.
If you are referring Psalm 119, I believe this should be the attitude and prayer of every True Believer. And it is also, I think, a Messianic Psalm, to some degree at least, as Christ has done all of this perfectly on our behalf if He has saved us.
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