Bible Discussion Thread Page 2

Hi Chris, the Bible supports being assured of future salvation.

Instead what I'm looking for verses supporting people saying they were already saved (in the past) and already have salvation.

So far there seem to be dozens of verses supporting a future salvation and none supporting a past or present salvation before judgment, but only one which I just now found supporting a present salvation: Luke 19:9

Verses supporting Future salvation:

1. Phil 2:12 - "work out" salvation as if its a process and not a one moment event.

2. 1 cor 3:6-8 (conditional- "reward according to his own labour.") It doesn't say the reward came in advance before any labor was done or that labor was irrelevant.

3. 1 Cor 9:24-27 "run the race" to win the prize, not the 'race was already won' and you already have the prize.

4. Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

5. 1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

6. 1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." If salvation was given now, why would it say its not given until the "last time"?

7. 2 Timothy 1:12 "For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." It says "keep" like a promise, like assurance of future salvation? It doesn't say Jesus already saved me and delivered the commitment.

Verses supporting Present salvation:

1. Luke 19:9

Currently:

7 verses supporting future salvation

1 verse supporting present salvation.

Any others?

I now understand Adam as to what you're seeking. I equated Biblical statements about one's salvation the same as if one stated specifically that salvation was their present possession. But if you require other Scriptures, including the Luke 19:9 you gave, as well as Luke 23:42,43, we could include Acts 16:30-34 (they rejoiced, not because that salvation would be in the future, but by believing they would be saved now). Also, Acts 10:44-48 (the Holy Spirit was poured out on the Gentiles, not just for the Jews; & they spoke in other tongues & were water baptized). Though we don't hear these people (the jailer & Cornelius) saying the words that you require, yet Luke records what he observed, that a transformation had taken place.

As to the "dozens of verses supporting a future salvation", one could examine those verses you gave & find that there is a differing understanding whether those verses speak of a future salvation or of victoriously living out one's present salvation & of eternal rewards.

So, we come back to the whole understanding of salvation by faith, the Work of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life, & living a life presently but not knowing whether God will or will not bring about a salvation at Judgement time. These points would certainly take us away from the point you're raising, but I believe they are necessary so as to understand what takes place when a person repents, believes, & gets baptized by the Spirit. Does the Spirit really even baptise him? Does the Spirit leave & enter him at will? What place does Holy Spirit Power hold in a believer's life? Can we even call him a believer - maybe just a follower of Christ awaiting/hoping for approval on that future day of salvation? These are some of the questions that disturb me if I'm not an assured believer & accepted by God on the merits of His Son's Sacrifice - an adopted child of God now. The question then is: am I saved right now or not till later - maybe?

Brother Adam:

What is man SAVED from?

The wages of SIN is DEATH.

What is SIN?

Psalms 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Hebrews 10:16 And this is the covenant I will make with them, after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my LAWS in their hearts, and in their minds I will write them:

Hebrews 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

So what is the SIN that results in death.

James 2:7 Do they not blaspheme thy Holy NAME by which ye are called?

Revelation 13:6 And he open his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme HIS NAME ....

John 16:8 And when HE (the Holy Ghost) is COME, he (the Holy Ghost) will reprove the world of SIN ....

So what is SIN that leads to death? ....blasphemy of the Holy Ghost by whose NAME ye are CALLED.

Acts 2:38 .....REPENT (of your beliefs) and be baptised in the NAME of Jesus ......

John 16:9 Of SIN because the BELIEVE not on me (the promised SEED of God), the ROD that CAUSES man to do the WILL of God.

Man does't BELIEVE that Christ came as SINFUL FLESH (you and I and all creation): and DIED on the cross.

Three days later Christ ONLY arose; and all creation were joint heirs with Christ's resurrection, all creation bears the NAME of Christ, because they were made ONE with Christ, blaspheming that name leads to DEATH.

The whole world is DEAD in sin (UNBELIEF).

God bless you

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Hi Laundry, of those verses shared I don't see any saying anything about immediate salvation on earth before judgment. God bless.

Brother Adam:

The scriptures I quoted is not about immediate salvation; salvation was GIFTED to all men 2000 years ago, you were saved by the resurrection of Christ.

It was finished 2000 years ago, all that is left is for the Holy Ghost to reveal that TRUTH to you.

God bless you.

Landry if salvation was already given to everyone do you believe everyone was saved including atheists and satanists?

Brother Adam:

One of the few things wrong with the King James Bible is the Greek word that means; age, or of the age, was translated eternity or everlasting, not age as it should be.

Eternity is divided into ages or generations, the age or generation we are now in has been so far about 2000 yrs.

When this age is complete then there is another age or generation after that, and so on till all the ages have come to and end.

Christ saved everyone by his resurrection, most haven't been judged by God's word to come to that truth.

Presently God is calling out a priesthood, that at some point in the ages to come, will join Christ as judges to judge the earth.

The believers will be judges; and they, the unbelievers, will confess Christ is Lord and saviour.

There is two deaths, two judgements, two resurrection.

Believers are in the first death, first resurrection and first judgement, all others are in the second death, second resurrection and second judgement,

The saints of the first death, first resurrection and first judgement will be the judges if those in the second death, second resurrection and second judgement.

Isaiah 26:9 ...when thy JUDGEMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the judgement written: this honour hath all his saints.

Revelation 2:26 And to him that overcometh (deception) ......to him will I give power over the nations.

God Bless You

Amen , I have , more than once , been in what some might call bad company . I once worked in a factory full of mostly men . When I first walked in I was overwhelmed by the feeling that I was the only one alive and that they were all dead . This has happened to me a few times , the feeling that I'm talking to a dead person , it's quite distressing . All we can do is show love and kindness and gentleness and generosity . Remember , we were all in that state once , remember how miserable and bewildered you used to be ? That's how they feel now . We must show them , the same kindness that God shows us . God bless you .

Hey Adam Gbu my man.....Jesus spoke to the 2 thieves on the cross and Jesus had already said you are made clean by the WORDS i have spoken unto you....As my words are spirit and life....living words of life....And Jesus said this day you will be with me in Paradise....This very day you will be with me in Paradise....Maybe this can be of some help Adam....Alex

Hi Pierre, thank you for that mention. I'm not a thief on a cross though, nor is anyone else. I don't know of any verse saying that this one example is a template and applies to everyone else universally even if you have to ignore other scripture. Also, it was only one of the thieves He said that to, and He didn't say He sad salvation or was saved or would go to heaven, but be in "paradise" which could be a different place. The guy also died, where as we are alive, but people are somehow saying that means they're saved now, even though they're still alive and didn't directly talk to Jesus.

Jesus is big enough to where He can make special circumstances and cases to help someone. It seems like a disproportionate amount of instruction is extrapolated from this example while also diminishing verses like 1 Peter 1:5 that say salvation will be revealed later in the last time. Both can't be true, so one is probably correct and the other is probably incorrect. Currently there are more verses saying that we will receive salvation in the future after judgment instead of before. But I still want to uncover 100% of all of them that people use to support their beliefs so we can all form our beliefs based on God's truth and sort that from man-made beliefs. God bless.

Hi Adam,

It is important to understand that when God promises salvation for us in New Testament Scripture, He immediately saves us when we have belief and trust in the work of Jesus Christ.

The text which I believe conveys this point is Acts 8:37, where it says: "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

If salvation is not produced through baptism or any human effort, then the Ethiopian eunuch was saved instantly before he was baptized. He was baptized into the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ (read Matthew 3, Mark 1, John 1, and Acts 1) prior to physical baptism. Salvation is by faith alone. If someone dies in a car accident after accepting Jesus as their savior (coming to faith in His bloody death, burial, and resurrection) through a radio show, that person is in heaven at the moment of his death. Paul put it like this: " [Jesus] hath [present tense] raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus ( Ephesians 2:6)."

I hope this helped!

Hello, thank you but those verses don't say anything about being saved immediately. I think its important to not add or subject from the Bible's meaning. There are lots of verses about being saved, but none I have come across that say you are saved immediately on earth. I have found verses indicating people are saved later, however. The following say in the "end" or "after" things. They don't say "now" or "immediately".

Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

Hebrews 10:36 "For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise."

Matthew 10:22 "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

"Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory." 2 Timothy 2:10 KJV

2 Corinthians 5:10

If there are no verses saying we are immediately saved before we die and are judged, why do people assume that? If not in the Bible where did this belief originate?

Hi Adam,

If you think you already have the answers, I don't see it as appropriate to test folks. It can spread doubt. What you need is some good dispensational teaching. The belief originated from the understanding of the New Testament Pauline soteriological doctrine as a whole.

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory" ( Ephesians 1:13-14). Being sealed is the same as being saved.

Judgment and salvation are the opposite. There are three judgments in the New Testament: sheep and goats ( Matthew 25), the judgment seat of Christ ( 1st Corinthians 3), and the great white throne judgment ( Revelation 20). Only one of those will a Christian experience-the judgment seat of Christ. The other two are for the unsaved. We are not immediately judged after we die. The judgment seat of Christ occurs after the rapture so that the works of the flesh are able to be viewed. Some people do believe that we are judged immediately after we die (e.g. amillennialists).

Ethan, who are you? Your comment indicates that you somehow know me and my beliefs but I have never interacted with you before unless you're using a fake alias?

>If you think you already have the answers, I don't see it as appropriate to test folks.

My post was clear in my motive to collect supporting verses, but you're assuming there's another motive. It's not nice to assume bad motives of others you don't even know. You also falsely assumed this was a test. God tests us though. Salvation is a very important topic worthy of discussing and sharing verses. I don't think others should be shamed by posting important topics such as this.

Aside from the false assumptions I reviewed the verse you posted:

Ephesians 1:13-14

This is a nice verse and I can see how someone could think that this is the same as someone calling themselves "saved" although it doesn't say that. I see nowhere in this verse saying the person is already saved or has salvation already. Instead it is a promise to be redeemed in the future- the "earnest of our inheritance" or a type of seal.

You wrote "Being sealed is the same as being saved." This verse doesn't say that, though.

I'm not ruling this out but I'm not so confident to call a seal or inheritance as being "saved". But let's say for discussion sake that it does 100% say that. The Bible already says in 1 Peter 1:5 that salvation will be revealed in the "last time".

So if these were the only two verses about this subject in the whole Bible, which would you choose to believe? What if there were two supporting a future salvation like 1 Peter 1:13. Would 2 to 1 support change anything? What about 10 to 2?

As for judgment day the Bible says everyone will face it. 2 Corinthians 5:10. Some assume all doesn't mean them. No, all means all. It means what it says.

And the day judgment is a day:

2 Peter 3:7, 1 John 4:17, etc

Adam the 2 thieves were saved that very day.....This day you will be with me in paradise....Alex