Hello everyone, Had an interesting question asked at our men's Bible group. " Our we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because where're sinners". Would like to hear your comments based from the Bible . Thank you
Hello everyone, Had an interesting question asked at our men's Bible group. " Our we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because where're sinners". Would like to hear your comments based from the Bible . Thank you
MountHoreb Response to Leoj:
When reading the bible, A Sinner is someone who has a leaning or urge to go against the will of Jehovah God ( Psalm 83:18)
God Saids one thing; a Sinner is inclined to go the other way. we have an example at Genesis 3
Point: Romans 5:12-15
There is Hope: John 3:16,17; 1 Timothy 1:8-10; 2 Timothy 3:16,17; John 17:3
Jehovah ( psalm 83:18) is not looking for perfection. he is like a father and we are like his Children prone to mistakes.
our father is looking for us to tell him the truth, to be humble, to cry to him and repent especially if it's something that
is to difficult to handle on our own. as sinners we need the spirit of God in order to have self-control in all things. This is why Jesus said what he said at Matthew 6:9-12; 1 Peter 5:6-11
We began with this sinful corruption and it manifested in our lives in active sin by choice. There is no one who does not sin in some way. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. So it is our sinful nature that leads us into sin, making us a sinner.
But every time we sin, we choose to, so our active sinning proves that we are a sinner. We have no excuse because our will is always free to sin, but without regeneration, we have no freedom to do what is truly good before God. Thank God that God's work in us to save us and make us new brings the desire and the power to obey God, though our obedience is never perfect like that of Jesus' obedience. He alone is and always has been perfectly righteous.
My thoughts go immediately to Romans chapter 7 where Paul is describing the Christian struggle of the newness of being regenerated and revived spiritually by the Holy Spirit with the sinful nature in ourselves that is still at work in us. As a new creation in Christ, Paul desires to do that which is good and righteous, but he is not able to perform these good things in a perfect way because the sinful nature is always there to taint whatever we do. In verse 17-23, Paul says that he knows that nothing good resides in his old nature which he calls the flesh. He speaks at the law of sin and death that is right there when he would do what is good even though he delights in the law of God in his inward regenerated spiritual man. He says that the law of sin brings his members into captivity to do evil.
We all have this same struggle in us as Paul had. When we were not redeemed, we did not have a regenerated inward man who wished to do what was righteous, but our corrupted inward man desired to do what sinful. We were enemies of God, but due to the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit, we desire to live holy and godly lives (which we did not want to do prior to conversion). Even so, we now have this struggle that did not exist when we were unredeemed. The sin nature and the new inner nature created anew by God war against each other. This will continue all of our life until death separates us from our sinful nature. When we are resurrected, we will be completely whole in all aspects of our being-from our physical bodies to our minds, soul, will, and spirit. There will be total harmony within us as the Holy Spirit continues to indwell us throughout eternity to keep us holy.
So, in regards to your question, as Richard said, it is both that we sin because we are a sinner and we are a sinner because we sin.
Everyone is conceived as a sinner corrupted by sin passed on to us from Adam to all persons. We had no choice in this.
Both. Man was created upright; and Lucifer perfect in his ways before they sinned. Therefore; there was within their nature the potential for sin. Things always start in the mind; and are related to the state of our souls. In both cases self decided based on their own understanding that God (their Creator) was somehow holding out on what was best for them; and they pursued what seemed the best path to elevate their status and consequently put God as second in their lives. The final decision to act on these impulses caused the chain reactions leading to destruction. For Adam it was immediate separation from fellowship with God (or spiritual death) shame and distancing himself from God (along with Eve); then the delayed results of the fallen earth; toiling with sweat; pain in childbirth and eventual physical death and for later generations a reduced life span.
If we step back to Paul's statement in Romans 7:9 there was a time before the law when he didn't know sin. Hence; we see some sort of age of accountability for actions. If we are not conscious of deliberate acts of rebellion against God then it seems scriptural that before that age we are saved by grace and can't be punished for something we don't understand. Once we do reach that age; then we are also judged more harshly for certain sins than others according to what is considered an abomination; or where a death penalty is declared for murder and such with the religious and associated civil laws society still has today. When we learn how to repeat acts of rebellion; then we are increasing our judgment; but clearly since all men are in Adam we are all sinners by nature as another result of the fall affecting all of mankind (Adam's progeny).
God judges us for outward manifestations of breaking His Divine decrees as well as for the thoughts and imaginations which in reality are doing these things in our heart. The fate of Lazarus and the rich man is said to result from actions not nature
I am unaware of any verse or passage in the Bible that speaks of an "age of accountability".
The Bible does say some very ugly things about our condition from the moment of conception apart from salvation. And that we are spiritually DEAD.
Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the WOMB: they go astray as soon as they BE BORN, speaking lies.
Romans 3:10-18
As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, not one: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God. They are ALL gone out of the way, they are TOGETHER become unprofitable; there is NONE that doeth good, no, NOT ONE. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
Hello everyone, Had an interesting question asked at our men's Bible group. " Our we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because where're sinners". Would like to hear your comments based from the Bible . Thank you
MountHoreb Response to Leoj:
When reading the bible, A Sinner is someone who has a leaning or urge to go against the will of Jehovah God ( Psalm 83:18)
God Saids one thing; a Sinner is inclined to go the other way. we have an example at Genesis 3
Point: Romans 5:12-15
There is Hope: John 3:16,17; 1 Timothy 1:8-10; 2 Timothy 3:16,17; John 17:3
Jehovah ( psalm 83:18) is not looking for perfection. he is like a father and we are like his Children prone to mistakes.
our father is looking for us to tell him the truth, to be humble, to cry to him and repent especially if it's something that
is to difficult to handle on our own. as sinners we need the spirit of God in order to have self-control in all things. This is why Jesus said what he said at Matthew 6:9-12; 1 Peter 5:6-11
Point: Luke 24:45-48; Romans 7:7-25
Hope these scriptures help. Thanks
Pr. 2
We began with this sinful corruption and it manifested in our lives in active sin by choice. There is no one who does not sin in some way. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. So it is our sinful nature that leads us into sin, making us a sinner.
But every time we sin, we choose to, so our active sinning proves that we are a sinner. We have no excuse because our will is always free to sin, but without regeneration, we have no freedom to do what is truly good before God. Thank God that God's work in us to save us and make us new brings the desire and the power to obey God, though our obedience is never perfect like that of Jesus' obedience. He alone is and always has been perfectly righteous.
This is a good question to ponder.
My thoughts go immediately to Romans chapter 7 where Paul is describing the Christian struggle of the newness of being regenerated and revived spiritually by the Holy Spirit with the sinful nature in ourselves that is still at work in us. As a new creation in Christ, Paul desires to do that which is good and righteous, but he is not able to perform these good things in a perfect way because the sinful nature is always there to taint whatever we do. In verse 17-23, Paul says that he knows that nothing good resides in his old nature which he calls the flesh. He speaks at the law of sin and death that is right there when he would do what is good even though he delights in the law of God in his inward regenerated spiritual man. He says that the law of sin brings his members into captivity to do evil.
We all have this same struggle in us as Paul had. When we were not redeemed, we did not have a regenerated inward man who wished to do what was righteous, but our corrupted inward man desired to do what sinful. We were enemies of God, but due to the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit, we desire to live holy and godly lives (which we did not want to do prior to conversion). Even so, we now have this struggle that did not exist when we were unredeemed. The sin nature and the new inner nature created anew by God war against each other. This will continue all of our life until death separates us from our sinful nature. When we are resurrected, we will be completely whole in all aspects of our being-from our physical bodies to our minds, soul, will, and spirit. There will be total harmony within us as the Holy Spirit continues to indwell us throughout eternity to keep us holy.
So, in regards to your question, as Richard said, it is both that we sin because we are a sinner and we are a sinner because we sin.
Everyone is conceived as a sinner corrupted by sin passed on to us from Adam to all persons. We had no choice in this.
If we step back to Paul's statement in Romans 7:9 there was a time before the law when he didn't know sin. Hence; we see some sort of age of accountability for actions. If we are not conscious of deliberate acts of rebellion against God then it seems scriptural that before that age we are saved by grace and can't be punished for something we don't understand. Once we do reach that age; then we are also judged more harshly for certain sins than others according to what is considered an abomination; or where a death penalty is declared for murder and such with the religious and associated civil laws society still has today. When we learn how to repeat acts of rebellion; then we are increasing our judgment; but clearly since all men are in Adam we are all sinners by nature as another result of the fall affecting all of mankind (Adam's progeny).
God judges us for outward manifestations of breaking His Divine decrees as well as for the thoughts and imaginations which in reality are doing these things in our heart. The fate of Lazarus and the rich man is said to result from actions not nature
I am unaware of any verse or passage in the Bible that speaks of an "age of accountability".
The Bible does say some very ugly things about our condition from the moment of conception apart from salvation. And that we are spiritually DEAD.
Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the WOMB: they go astray as soon as they BE BORN, speaking lies.
Romans 3:10-18
As it is written, There is NONE righteous, no, not one: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God. They are ALL gone out of the way, they are TOGETHER become unprofitable; there is NONE that doeth good, no, NOT ONE. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Ephesians 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were DEAD in trespasses and sins;
This comment thread is locked. Please enter a new comment below to start a new comment thread.
Note: Comment threads older than 2 months are automatically locked.
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Please Sign In or Register to post comments...
Report Comment
Which best represents the problem with the comment?