Bible Discussion Thread Page 2

Hello Jema,

Hebrews 11:8-10, 16 says that Abraham and those of the OT promises were looking forward to the heavenly country that God would bring them into.

Jesus, in talking to Pilate, said that His kingdom is not of this world. John 18:36. He went to heaven to prepare a place for us so that where He is we will be.

Therefore, I am not looking for an earthly existence upon His return, but an heavenly. He will make a new heaven and a new earth after He destroys the wicked and unbelievers, resurrects and glorifies believers and destroys the present heavens and earth. So, these new heavens and earth will be our eternal home. They will not be tainted by sin. Perhaps we will be able to transfer readily between heaven and earth as Jesus was able to do after His resurrection. So, there is a purpose for both the new heavens and new earth. We just do not know how God will us them concerning us and His glory in that age of eternity.

Ronald Thank you for your reply. My understanding would be Post-tribulation, and Pre-wrath. When Jesus Christ comes for His elect, the church THEN the wrath of God is poured out on those disobedient ones who are left on the earth. The wrath of God will be poured out on the disobedient ones left on the earth the same day True Believers meet the Lord in the air to be taken to the marriage supper of the Lamb. ( Mt. 24:29-31) Tells us the Son of man will come in the clouds, it doesn't say He will return to the earth at that time. ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) Tells us we will meet the Lord in the air, in the clouds. Again It doesn't say He will return to the earth at this time. Now if we look at ( Rev. 19:7-9) We see the marriage supper taking place, THEN in ( Rev. 19:11-16) We see heaven opened, and behold, a white horse; this is when Jesus Christ will return ((to the earth)) and He is very clearly coming ((from heaven)) and He comes to the earth to rule the nations with a rod of iron, and He (treadeth) the winepress and fierceness and ((wrath)) of Almighty God. The word (treadeth) is #3961; it means a "path" to trample, tread (down, under foot) This will end the wrath of God on the earth and begin the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth. According to your understanding Ronald, When would the wrath of God be poured out on the disobedient ones who are left on the earth as ( Rev. 16:1-2) tells us it will be? God Bless.

Hey Jimbob,

Forgive me I am just trying to understand. Jesus comes for the Church after the great tribulation and carries it to heaven for the marriage supper then the wrath is poured out then Jesus returns with the Church. If the Church is taken to heaven, if it is pre, mid, or post-trib. the world would know it. If the wrath is then poured out while the Church is in heaven and before Jesus comes back to the earth how could that be as a thief in the night as in 1 Thess. 5:1-3 2 Thess. 2:1-3 Rev. 16:15

The second coming of Christ will be like a thief catching the wicked off guard in their oblivious state. Jesus second coming will be the first resurrection and those resurrected and those changed will be with Jesus in and around Jerusalem not in heaven while the wrath is being poured out. It culminates at the battle of Armageddon as we see as the vials are poured out with the seventh vial Rev.16:13-17 Rev.19:17-21 also Rev. 17:12-14.

If the wrath is poured out before Jesus comes back, could we say that Jesus is coming back as a "thief" after the world has just experienced his previous earth-destroying judgments? As Jesus said again Rev. 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

He comes as a thief so we are to watch until He comes, and He only comes once, and when He comes, He will set up His kingdom and He will be king over all the earth, Zechariah 14:9.

I know that is different, but this is what scripture says to me.

God bless,

RLW

Me too , thanks for putting it so plain .

Ronald Yes Jesus comes for the church (Immediately after the tribulation), ( Mt. 24:29-31) He doesn't carry us to heaven we meet Him in the air, in the clouds, ( 1 Thess. 4:15-17) And the word (heaven) is #3772; it means (through the idea of elevation) ((the sky)), by extension heaven (as the abode of God) by implying happiness, power, eternity, ((air)) When Jesus comes in the clouds and all True Believers are caught up to meet Him in the air, (1 Thess.4:17) Don't you think that would be as a thief in the night to All non-believers who just witnessed a great multitude of people just disappear, and they are still left on the earth? Also when Jesus comes to the earth riding a white horse in ( Rev. 19:11-16) the beast, (the antichrist) and the kings of the earth, and their armies are gathered together to make war against Christ in ( Rev. 19:19) That return is defiantly not as a thief in the night, so the return in the clouds when He gathers together His elect are the only verses that could fulfill the coming as a thief. Right? There are two different returns Ronald, the first one He comes in the clouds and True Believers meet our Lord in the air, in the clouds ( 1 Thess. 4:16-17) The ones who are left ( Mt. 24:40-42) are the disobedient non-believers to face the wrath of God being poured out on the earth after Believers are taken. ( Jn. 3:36) ( Rom. 5:9) Tells us "we are saved from wrath through him" ( 1 Thess. 1:10) Tells us "even Jesus, which ((delivered us FROM THE WRATH TO COME))" ( 1 Thess. 5:9) Tells us "For God hath not appointed us to wrath" ( Eph. 5:6) and ( Col. 3:6) both tell us the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience. The disobedient will be the only ones left on the earth to face the wrath of God. (Romans.1:18) Now the second return is riding a white horse when Jesus returns to the earth (with the church) to rule all nations with a rod of iron ( Rev. 19:15) Coming in the clouds to gather His elect, and Him riding a white are two very different returns.

Brother Spencer,

Great post, thanks for sharing this!!!

Thanks Brother Jesse.

God bless you.