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She did not remain a virgin for she clearly had relationship with Joseph her husband who had sons ; James being one of them and sisters as mentioned .
There is no record in scripture nor any theological foundation for the idea she was immaculately conceived .
But like all mankind of the seed of Adam and thus born in sin and shapen in iniquity .
Do not the scriptures in fact show her liniage ?
Nor was she transported up to heaven that too is not supported by scripture .
But would have died as all men die .
For it is appointed unto man once to die but then comes the judgement .
Might I suggest that an ' immaculate conception ' might well dazzle the imagination but it blinds mens minds to the truth .
Blessed above all women no doubt but we should not put people above what they are not .
Much has been made of Mary over the centuries that then as now has no basis in scripture .
Mary was not the mother of God ,she was the mother of the Lords flesh the mother of Jesus the Word made flesh.
While he was growing up Jesus was under the authority of His father and mother and obediently submitted to them as recorded when they all went up to Jerusalem and he stayed behind in the temple . When finally found he said I must be about my Fathers business but nevertheless submitted to them and returned home for His time was not yet come .
But from the moment He was baptised the record shows He never gave ground or suggested or allowed His mother to have any authority over Him. For He came not to do her will but the will of Him who sent Him.
Thus at the wedding feast of Canaan when his mother said they had no wine ,He replied ; not ' mother' but Woman what hast thou to do with me seeing that mine hour is not yet come ?"
Later in John he spoke of His hour had come when man would take Him at their will and do their will albeit Gods will was done ias foreseen and recorded in the Old Testament.
When Jesus was talking in a house and His mother according to his flesh was outside with his half brothers and sisters seeking to talk with him . He in effect denied his flesh and said His true mother and brethren are " they who do the will of God"
While on the cross and His mother and John were standing looking up watching . He said to His mother , "behold Thy son "
Not as some religionists would have it ,' look at me' but clearly in the context He was saying that John was now her son and tyen said to John behold Thy mother and from that moment on she lived with him at his house .
Even in his sufferings he made provision for His mother .
She was a virgin when Jesus was conceived in her womb . That does not make her sinless .
She herself confessed her " saviour" . The blood of a child is determined by the father not the mother .
2b contin
An absurd assertion now made wicked by putting it on the statute books .
But which denies the very simple truth " That a man's life is in his nostrils".
Who has no more ' right' to that breath than any he has received before it or how many he might after .
It is a gift of God .
No man can unlawfully take the life of another , A judicious death penalty for crimes worthy of death is not murder .
But if you take a deep breath and hold it ,that's yours and what you or I say or do with it we can .
Though there are always consequences .some eternal.
But while you are holding your breath wondering what to say or do ,consider when if ever you had to work or labour ( unless Ill) for any breath? When did you ever earn it? Or deserve it ? Never . It is a gift of God .
In truth everyone is in some small measure in a love debt to their mother who while not giving life worked very hard and laboured so that you and I might take or receive that first breath .
We are all then in a love debt to our mothers .
How much more then are all men in a love debt to God ?
Each breath proving just how good He is ,patient ,long suffering not willing that any should perish but that all should come to a knowledge of the truth .
For man curses God and man and by his very life denies the existence of God .
Stripped of all its vain glory and empty promise it basically says ' No matter what evil I do no evil will come'
Or is like a man sitting on a very small branch of a very great tree and he is sawing it off and saying this is mine!
a son of GOD who follows a desire for a daughter of man is in conflict with his own nature when he identify with a part of himself, and moves on it, instead of wholehearted moves, where the spirit of God lives in him and moves him.
Sons of GOD is created by GOD and in union with him.
Daughters of man is of the flesh,
When this is said, remember that a human being or a man is both a man and a woman in one body , so when we follow our will, we do separate and lose our wholeness.
For on the face of it it is but an assertion .
Thanks . GB
Your last comment that a man is both man and woman needs clarification on your part given the prevailing foolishness around the world .
GENESIS 1 - 27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
God created man in his own image and He does not have a counterpart, there is One God, in this context that means that when man is a woman, he bears the man inside, he is both, Man is made of spirit like God is spirit. We unveil a sacred mystery of our nature in our marriage between man and woman
Please nuance your question if anything still is unclear Gerald.
Arnfinnius
That order is " Let us make man in our image ." And was created out of the dust of the earth .
Eve the woman was created from the body of the man .
" Male and female made He THEM"
Who in marriage become one .
What follows is in that same order . God does not create a man with a woman inside him .
Nor did he create a woman with a man inside of her . They are quite separate.
Biologically they are quite separate and it's written far deeper than any surgeon can cut .
Nor is the creation of man repeated nor indeed the woman .
It shouid also be noted that while man was created in the image of God,he is born in the image of his father Adam.
Wee are MAN kind because every seed brings forth fruit after its own kind ..
Because of the fall and of sin the image of God is lost or. So marred it is no longer recognised .
Hence the " you MUST be born again " of corruptible but of the incorruptible seed which is the Word of God .
By that law that every seed will bring forth fruit after its own kind ,a corrupted seeds only bring forth corrosion unto death
The same law applying to the incorruptible seed will bring forth righteousness unto life .
And it is by their fruits you shall know them . Be anyone male or female.
Thank you and God bless you.
But what I will say now is when man is created in the image of God, and we are now before the fall of man, he is a reflection of God, and God contains all, so therefor is mans dual nature a reflection of his true nature which is nondual like God he is content.
To be an image of God, means to reflect the nature of God, and the nature is in this world but not of this world. Man is created eternal because he is an image of God and God is eternal. Therefor the LORD tells us to not identify anyone in the world as our father for our Father is in heaven.
Since we are created in the image of God we do contain also the opposite sex in our spititual nature.
With an argument to show how you reach that conclusion .
For I see no teaching of it in that regard .
For God is not a woman inside He has revealed himself to be the Father .
And we are to pray " Our Father ".
God is light He is light in out and all light and in him there is no darkness .
There is not a woman inside a man ( trying to get out?) The Lord was a man who did not have a woman inside him mystical or not. But He himself said it was " The Father in Him who did the work".
There is a reason why we have the scriptures . It is very difficult to make them say what they do not . The only way of course is to " twist the scriptures" or change them to a persons subjective thinking . This has also been done.
The Holy Bible has its own internal logic . It must be so and is because there was but one mind even Gods behind it .
If we are to get anywhere we have to learn to follow its logic and reasoning . Not our own .
In that way our lives are transformed by the renewal of our minds .
You say Gerald - in Reply
You will have to back that up with scripture and more than one verse at that .
This is more than just a verse, it is the foundation of the understanding of man and his situation in life.
That man is created in the image of God and the meaning of this, you do avoid to reply to this and when you do not reply I will not reply either.
So please do display what is the right view on the fundamental fact that man is created in the image of God.
Arnfinnius
Man is not now a creation again each time out of the dust of earth .
He is born of a woman but that does not make the woman his creator either .
For it is God that forms us in the womb according to those laws already predetermined in the creation of Man .
We are now Born .
But not in Gods image .
If man had not disobeyed God and sinned he would also have been born in the image of God . The only one born in the image of God was the Lord Jesus Christ Himself . For He was and is the Word of God made flesh .
We then or anyone true born of the incorruptible seed which is the Word of God that image of God is once again found in them and is it not written " renewed daily in the image of Him"?
If a man or woman finds themselves in hell it will not be so much because they have sinned ( for all have sinned) but because they bore another image than Gods and are then rejected as His sons even as they rejected Christ . For he who receives me receives Him that sent me " it follows they who reject Christ reject also Him that sent Him.
GB
GB
So while I have not ever stated man is made in the image of God . I do reject the idea that man has within him a woman .
Adam was a man . Created from the dust of the earth .
There was no ' feminine aspect ' in him . It was zGod who created Eve from the rib of the man ,a woman .
Man was created in the image of God but he is born in the image of his father Adam .
God has revealed himself as Father . He is not a ' mother' nor is there a woman trying to get out .
A man is not a woman in any sense . Nor a woman a man .
We are man kind over all .
Man in general .
And men and women in particular .
Don't mix up what God has separated or confuse what God has joined on this earth with what God has done with the church .
As I said in my last post the only thing I can think of where you might be indirectly referring to and to which there is scripture for you have never actually quoted on .
So I am in a quandary understanding you .
Due to the fall and because of sin that image of God is so marred or lost it is now unrecognisable .
Jesus declared "He came to seek and to save that which was lost " Who is the express image of the invisible God "
The need to be BORN again is then an imperative . Not of that corruptible seed which is of the first Adam but of the incorruptible seed which is of the "last Adam " which is and was the Word of God made flesh .
For every seed "brings forth fruit after its own kind " Jesus speaking of Himself said " unless a seed fall into the ground and die it abideth alone ,but if it does it brings forth much fruit" what sort of fruit? After its own kind .
When my first born son was born to my delight and surprise I saw my image in him .
He bore my image because I was His father . If I had not been his father he would not have borne my image but that of his true father and I would have rejected him as my son . (For my wife's sake there was not thought at all he was not my son )
But the fact remains he bore my image because I was his father and he came forth from me .
It was MAN who was made in the image of God . We are MANkind on that simple biology if nothing else that every seed brings forth fruit after its own kind .
Woman was created from the body of the man even as the church or Bride is or will be .
The only thing I can think of in scripture which you might indirectly be referring to is where Jesus was teaching in a house and on being told his mother (after the flesh) and half brothers and sisters after the flesh were outside desiring to talk with Him.
He denied in effect his flesh and said who is my mother and my brethren etc . But pointing to those in front of Hom said " they that do the will of God are my mother and brother and sister "
You are right, this is hard to understand so we need not be dogmatic but humble. The sons of God are in the OT only 5 times Gen. 6:2, 5 Job 1:6 Job 2:6 Job 38:7, and Daniel 3:25. The times in Job and Daniel are clearly angelic beings, so how do we take the meaning in Gen. 6. It says, "when the sons of God saw daughters of men", The Hebrew word for men here is h-'-m/adam meaning mankind. So, is this distinguishing a difference in the sons of adam/men?
There are words that we may overlook, "and also after that". We see giants/Nephilim after the flood. 2 Sam. 21:16 Joshua 12:4 Num. 13:33 Deut. 2:19-21 Deut. 20:17 Amos 2:9 and more. Are there any NT scriptures that speak to this?
2 Peter 2:4-6 and Jude 1:6-7 both are talking about angels who sinned and "which kept not their first estate but left their own habitation", the Greek word is used only two times translated habitation is oiktrion, the other place was in 2 Cor 5:2 the word house. Peter and Jude both compare what these angels did the same as in Sodom and Gomorrah, strange flesh.
There are fallen angels along with Satan who are active on the earth today and still have access to heaven, but these angels did something even worse because God made an example of them and locked them in chains of darkness in the bottomless pit, until judgment. I do not know of any man in the OT who was ever called or referred to as son of God, I may have overlooked it, but my understanding is Nephilim came from these angels that God locked up.
God bless,
RLW
The use of the term " sons of God" therefore cannot be taken as angels who are not sons of God nor then begotten of God .
Jesus being "the ONLY begotten Son of God " is thus equal with God and is God the Son .
If we are truly born again then we are also begotten of God through Jesus Christ . Which is in itself consistent with the fact that we are a new creation but also begotten of God in and through Jesus Christ .
For by him and through Him all things consist .
We are therefore sons of God begotten of the Father through Jesus Christ .
For while "only the Father has life in himself "and is not dependent on anything else or who's life is from something else .
Jesus taught that The Father has also given this to the Son ( Jesus) who has life in Himself .
Thus it is written " Man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God"
He then that relieves me said Jesus receives Him that sent me " thus then " He who has the Son has life ,he who has not the Son has not even seen life yet"
For He is our life having given His life for Sin so that we might live .
My first born son bore my image because I was his father and he came forth from me . If I had not been his father ,he would not have born my image but the image of his true father and I would have rejected him as my son.
Man was created in the image of God but he is born in the image of his father Adam.
You therefore must be born again of that incorruptible seed which is the word of God. For if you are not you do not nor cannot bear the image of God nor can you therefore be a son of God.
For as Jesus clearly taught angels are not as men nor given in marriage . They are sexless .
When Adam and Eve disobeyed God and did that which was right or good in their own eyes .
They had a sold Cain then another called Abel.
Cain proved to be unrighteous in that he did that which was good in his own eyes and offered up the works of his own hands and by the sweat of his brow .
Abel followed the pattern laid down in the garden by God and offered up a sacrificed lamb. Which was good in the sight of God and accepted .
You thus have two lines man . The righteous and unrighteous line .
They were not to mix . Ballam who prophesied for money held the truth in unrighteousness and taught the enemy of Isreal to get their daughters to marry to children of Isreal and thus by degree lead them away into idolatry and in consequence. Gods judgement and their defeat .
So it was also in the beginning .
So it is now .
Be not unequally yoked ,so says the scripture .
I agree all scripture is inspired by God, and I respect your understanding of this subject many accept that view. The line of Seth and the line of Cain or as you put it the righteous and unrighteous line.
Where my understanding comes from, is in all the verses the words sons of God in the Old Testament refer to angelic beings, Job 1:6; 2:1 context shows the sons of God are angels, also Job 38:7, says the sons of God shouted for joy when God created the earth, a man had not been created.
There are angels that God locked in the darkness for what they did that Peter and Jude witnessed that only Genesis 6 matches what Peter and Jude wrote.
I understand Matt.22:30 Mark 12:25 is taken angels do not procreate, Jesus said angels in heaven because of their spiritual being there is no need. Peter and Jude both said they kept not their first estate and left their own habitation, and they could not return and are now locked in the bottomless pit the same place Satan will be locked in for 1000 years.
So, my understanding of the term sons of God has two basic meanings. It refers to the angels, both good and bad, in the Old Testament. But in the New Testament, the phrase refers to believers in Jesus and through Him have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. By this adoption by Jesus, we become sons and daughters of God
Thanks for your reply,
God bless,
RLW
But given the fall of man and the devils dominion he does have access to be able to accuse the brethren .
But we ,if redeemed have a witness .The blood that speaks of better things than the blood of Abels.
For " IF we sin we have an advocate with the Father .. "1 John .
Might I suggest that advocates are found in court as too witnesses .
It is in the UK a Crown court and tried by the Crown .
It is not the Palace . Nor indeed in the very presence of the Crown .
A poor if not beggarly example .
But which none the less may help.
But in all truth somethings can't be understood before other things are understood and while it is good to enquire to search and to study . It is always good to be patient for the answers .
For in my experience if you ask a good question on the foundation of belief and trust in God you will always sooner or later get a good answer .
Ask however on the foundation of unbelief and you going down a bottomless pit which not even a good answer will satisfy .
My attempt might not be acceptable for some nor indeed for you . But still when you ask questions you should be patient and wait on God for the answer .put the ' book ' so to speak up on the shelf and get it down every so often and chew on it some more .
It took 10 years once for one answer to come . It did not trouble me but I did " hide it in my heart" and let God lead me into all truth . A jig saw puzzle needs must have the side pieces and corners done first . They are the milk of the Word .
Easily identifiable and put together .
The earthly parts are the next in my book and much easier than the heavenly parts which are left till last ,I'm speaking of myself .
The heavenly things are usually the most difficult for we are most unlike them to start with .
Notwithstanding this what's on the table is ours to eat if we can or " able to bear it" .
They only can put you out the building. Christ is in the midst of all believers. When the last person exit the building, so has the Holyspirit.
Have you tried to fellowship at your wife church?
Welcome to the site and if at all possible find you a bible teaching church along with what you have here.
May the Lord bless you on your journey.
The denominations arose since the reformation not because each sound doctrine they taught was wrong ,but rather like Peter thought there revelation and understanding was the be all and end all . He going so far as to contradict the Lord who began to give more light which in Peters thinking did not fit . A warning then . For the Lord had to give him a severe rebuke " get behind me Satan for you.." not many would accept such a reproof . But shows clearly he was not infallible nor THE Rock upon which the eternal church of God is built upon.
But each denomination like Noah's generation thought this is a nice place let us build us a tower and a name for ourselves etc. and stayed where they were put instead of going out into all the world .
Each defending their patch to the death but rejecting the whole truth .
You don't say what denomination you ' married into' but as long as it is not heretical and teaching false doctrine then find a church that believes in the " whole council of God".
GB
There is more to this than meets the eye ,I think .
This is my understanding; Satan is our accuser, and he still accuses us before God. We see in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 Satan came along with the sons of God/angels to present themselves to God. I understand that would be in heaven.
We are told to put on the whole armor of God in Ephesians 6:11-12 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. The Greek word for high places is epouranios, heavenly realm.
In Revelation 12:7-8 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. The words "neither was their place found in heaven" tells me they still have access to heaven until they are cast out, down to earth.
Verse 10:12 shows Satan accused the brethren before our God day and night it was by the blood of Christ, they cast him out and he only has a short time. My understanding this starts the tribulation when Satan gives his seat, power, and authority to the beast Rev. 13.
So, my understanding is Satan still has access, I am sure it is limited but until they are cast out permanently that will be in the future. If you understand another way that is ok.
God bless,
RLW