There are certain principles that we do wise to adhere to in regard to this subject. I have discussed in other posts about the possible misinterpretation of the actual beginning of the final generation mentioned in Matthew 24:34. Obviously; if it is to be as the time of Noah or Lot as stated later on in the same chapter there need be no catastrophic event immediately preceding the event; and in fact it would seem that it is the opposite. It would seem that certain events if not the actual "birth pains" at present certainly could be foreshadows; however.
Principle One: In regard to the above statement; we do wise not to do any "date setting". It seems from scripture that a good argument can be made for a Feast of Trumpets for the Rapture; but I am not going to get into a dogmatic argument on that at present. There are certain things that should be examined; however. The state of the church today and many "falling away" ( 2 Thess. 2:3) should raise alarm bells. The danger of too much worldly comfort lulling us to sleep should be clear in the Laodicean church example; as well as all the other churches with right and wrong actions in the same book. We should heed lives such as that of Lot and Noah to notice their surroundings in much worldly wealth; carousing and carelessness. Sudden destruction come; of course when they are calling for Peace and Safety (security) in 1 Thessalonians 5:3; when of course according to other scriptures there is no peace ( Jeremiah 6:14). It appears that eventually after the Rapture after the covenant is confirmed in the 1st Seal that a "pseudo-peace" occurs; as "peace is taken from the earth" afterwards at the 2nd Seal ( Rev. 6:4). For there to be a final covenant "confirmed" in Daniel 9:27 there has to be a framework which has successes and builds up eventually to that level. Such is the basic groundwork laid out in the "Abraham Accords".
Hi Richard, I will be reading through your posts on this subject. But, for this post I just want to throw in my two-cents worth and say that I think that Jesus was speaking to His disciples asking Him the questions in Matthew 24 about what would be happening between then and the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. So, I believe that it is that generation alive when Jesus spoke these words that will see this judgment come upon Judah and end the O.T. system, Judaism, Priestly functions, etc. when the Romans surrounded the city and laid waste to it. I read that over 1 million Jews were killed, many by other Jews, and about 100,000 were put on ships to be delivered to other countries as slaves. I guess, I don't see what Jesus is speaking about in chapters 21-24 in the days after His triumphal entry into Jerusalem in the last week before His crucifixion as being referring to the end of time.
I realize that there are many who do not share my view. But, just as I have studied the dispensational millennial viewpoint, I would encourage those who don't think like I do to at least study up on this preterist view. I am not a full preterist, for sure, but I do not hold to the dispensational millennial view. More inclined to the some of the point of ammillennial, and historic millennialism. I guess I am not totally convinced on any of these I mention. But I know that I do not hold to the dispensational view. It has many beliefs that i cannot square with Scripture. But I am still open to read and consider every viewpoint.
I did not want this conversation to go into what it did with the poster "Anonymous" or "Roman" if they are the same person. I posted to you to speak to the generation Jesus is speaking about in Matthew 24. I would love to hear more of what you think. I am still learning when it comes to eschatology, so I find people's input valuable.
If you believe in the rapture, please tell me how that happens. Is your group really first, even before the 1st resurrection? Please help me understand the timing of your rapture, how it fits in.
God is the God of all, a fair God, and at the appointed time everyone will receive the portion they deserve to make them whole. It has to be by the book. Modern day Israel is revealed in Revelation 7:9. That indicates God's mission to spread Israel's seed to the 4 corners of the earth is complete. Israel is everyone and everyone is Israel.
I was not sure who you were responding to. And, if I may ask, what is your name?
My view of the "rapture" is that:
When Jesus returns at the end of the age, all believers and unbelievers will be resurrected. Believers will be changed to have resurrection bodies and meet Jesus in the air at His descent. Our bodies will be made immortal and incorruptible with the sin nature totally removed. We will be sealed like the angels who did not rebel and will never sin again. We will be with Jesus forever.
Unbelievers will be resurrected into their bodies only these will be immortal but still corrupted with a sinful nature. They will be judged to hell forever, joining Satan and his angels. They will be tormented forever with the wrath of God upon them ithout mitigation.
FYI, you described resurrection, not rapture. And you conflated the 1st resurrection with elements of the 2nd resurrection. It is amazing how many people will accept falsities as Biblical fact, and give praise where praise is not due.
Hmm, I am just not sure what you are trying to get at here except to somehow trip me up.
You may think I am wrong in my thinking. That is fine with me as this topic does not speak to my salvation in any way. The time of the end will come one way or another. I usually do not enter into conversations on this topic because it has such a diversity of thoughts and no definitive timeline in sequence anywhere in the Bible. Most people take Scriptures from various parts of the Biuble to fit together their theory. And that is what we are talking about here.
I appreciate hearing your views but I do not wish to argue on this topic. I would like to know your name, though, so I can address my post to you by name.
I proved you scripturally wrong, don't be mad, please learn from it. You lost the argument fair and square. Your future vision is different from what scripture reveals. I'm not talking about salvation, not being marginalized, I'm talking the letter of the law.
I once thought the pope was the false prophet, however the pope doesn't have nuclear weapons and positioned like China, Obadiah 1:7. I'm always willing to evolve in my understanding.
Wow, GIGI, It is amazing how you understand the Bible so well. I really appreciate having someone like you on here; you make it all the more fun by helping people understand. You have encouraged me to read more of the Bible and dig deeper into understanding it. My church right now is walking through the book of Revelation. It is a very interesting book about the end times of this world. Personal I don't want to be on this world when it happens due to all the destruction and pain toward christens. But at the same time I do want to be a part of it, to witness what the Bible talks about, and perhaps even to see Jesus in His seconed coming. I thank God that I am a believer. Because if I wasn't, I would be cursed to Hell forever.
Where are the 25 billion believers that ever lived going to fit on earth? What about God's other people who are true lovers of God, will they not suffer a mortal death, too? Wouldn't you need a new earth and new heaven to accommodate such a large number of people? Also, if Christians are raptured, that puts the doctrine in direct conflict with Hebrews 9:27.
Ezekiel 21:1-4 describes Israels visitation; both good and bad people are taken (killed). No rapture.
Luke 17:34-37 The disciples ask Jesus where the "taken" people go? Jesus says the bodies will be where vultures circle. They are not raptured, they are dead.
The rapture isn't Biblical doctrine, you adopted it along the way. It's popular when there's a shortage of sound solutions, and chances are you wouldn't have settled on that doctrine on your own. The "rapture" was made popular by a 15 year old girl, Margaret McDonald. Study the topic before answering, I can wait a few days. I really want you to focus in on the subject, take notes. We're going to use scripture and logic to iron this out.
If you notice my post, I put the word rapture in parentheses because I realize that it is a word commonly used for what will happen to believers when Jesus returns for us. But, my comments speak to what happens on the very last day when Jesus returns. There will be some who are alive at that event, and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 explains what will happen to both those who have died and those still alive at His final coming. Everyone, both believers and unbelievers will be judged at that time, as far as I have gathered from reading.
As far as Hebrews 9:27, this passage is not speaking to the time of Christ's return as far as I can tell.
As for where all believers of all time will reside after Jesus comes and we are all changed, I have no doubt that God has prepared a place for us, as Jesus stated. As to where this place is, I do not think that Scripture clearly specifies. But Jesus did say that He was going to prepare a place for us. And the place He went to was heaven.
There are certain principles that we do wise to adhere to in regard to this subject. I have discussed in other posts about the possible misinterpretation of the actual beginning of the final generation mentioned in Matthew 24:34. Obviously; if it is to be as the time of Noah or Lot as stated later on in the same chapter there need be no catastrophic event immediately preceding the event; and in fact it would seem that it is the opposite. It would seem that certain events if not the actual "birth pains" at present certainly could be foreshadows; however.
Principle One: In regard to the above statement; we do wise not to do any "date setting". It seems from scripture that a good argument can be made for a Feast of Trumpets for the Rapture; but I am not going to get into a dogmatic argument on that at present. There are certain things that should be examined; however. The state of the church today and many "falling away" ( 2 Thess. 2:3) should raise alarm bells. The danger of too much worldly comfort lulling us to sleep should be clear in the Laodicean church example; as well as all the other churches with right and wrong actions in the same book. We should heed lives such as that of Lot and Noah to notice their surroundings in much worldly wealth; carousing and carelessness. Sudden destruction come; of course when they are calling for Peace and Safety (security) in 1 Thessalonians 5:3; when of course according to other scriptures there is no peace ( Jeremiah 6:14). It appears that eventually after the Rapture after the covenant is confirmed in the 1st Seal that a "pseudo-peace" occurs; as "peace is taken from the earth" afterwards at the 2nd Seal ( Rev. 6:4). For there to be a final covenant "confirmed" in Daniel 9:27 there has to be a framework which has successes and builds up eventually to that level. Such is the basic groundwork laid out in the "Abraham Accords".
I realize that there are many who do not share my view. But, just as I have studied the dispensational millennial viewpoint, I would encourage those who don't think like I do to at least study up on this preterist view. I am not a full preterist, for sure, but I do not hold to the dispensational millennial view. More inclined to the some of the point of ammillennial, and historic millennialism. I guess I am not totally convinced on any of these I mention. But I know that I do not hold to the dispensational view. It has many beliefs that i cannot square with Scripture. But I am still open to read and consider every viewpoint.
I did not want this conversation to go into what it did with the poster "Anonymous" or "Roman" if they are the same person. I posted to you to speak to the generation Jesus is speaking about in Matthew 24. I would love to hear more of what you think. I am still learning when it comes to eschatology, so I find people's input valuable.
God is the God of all, a fair God, and at the appointed time everyone will receive the portion they deserve to make them whole. It has to be by the book. Modern day Israel is revealed in Revelation 7:9. That indicates God's mission to spread Israel's seed to the 4 corners of the earth is complete. Israel is everyone and everyone is Israel.
Sometimes the sight posts my name, sometimes it doesn't....
My view of the "rapture" is that:
When Jesus returns at the end of the age, all believers and unbelievers will be resurrected. Believers will be changed to have resurrection bodies and meet Jesus in the air at His descent. Our bodies will be made immortal and incorruptible with the sin nature totally removed. We will be sealed like the angels who did not rebel and will never sin again. We will be with Jesus forever.
Unbelievers will be resurrected into their bodies only these will be immortal but still corrupted with a sinful nature. They will be judged to hell forever, joining Satan and his angels. They will be tormented forever with the wrath of God upon them ithout mitigation.
FYI, you described resurrection, not rapture. And you conflated the 1st resurrection with elements of the 2nd resurrection. It is amazing how many people will accept falsities as Biblical fact, and give praise where praise is not due.
You may think I am wrong in my thinking. That is fine with me as this topic does not speak to my salvation in any way. The time of the end will come one way or another. I usually do not enter into conversations on this topic because it has such a diversity of thoughts and no definitive timeline in sequence anywhere in the Bible. Most people take Scriptures from various parts of the Biuble to fit together their theory. And that is what we are talking about here.
I appreciate hearing your views but I do not wish to argue on this topic. I would like to know your name, though, so I can address my post to you by name.
I proved you scripturally wrong, don't be mad, please learn from it. You lost the argument fair and square. Your future vision is different from what scripture reveals. I'm not talking about salvation, not being marginalized, I'm talking the letter of the law.
I once thought the pope was the false prophet, however the pope doesn't have nuclear weapons and positioned like China, Obadiah 1:7. I'm always willing to evolve in my understanding.
I am glad that you are being helped by what people post on this site. It helps me a lot, too.
Revelations is quite a book. May you be encouraged by your study of it.
Where are the 25 billion believers that ever lived going to fit on earth? What about God's other people who are true lovers of God, will they not suffer a mortal death, too? Wouldn't you need a new earth and new heaven to accommodate such a large number of people? Also, if Christians are raptured, that puts the doctrine in direct conflict with Hebrews 9:27.
Ezekiel 21:1-4 describes Israels visitation; both good and bad people are taken (killed). No rapture.
Luke 17:34-37 The disciples ask Jesus where the "taken" people go? Jesus says the bodies will be where vultures circle. They are not raptured, they are dead.
The rapture isn't Biblical doctrine, you adopted it along the way. It's popular when there's a shortage of sound solutions, and chances are you wouldn't have settled on that doctrine on your own. The "rapture" was made popular by a 15 year old girl, Margaret McDonald. Study the topic before answering, I can wait a few days. I really want you to focus in on the subject, take notes. We're going to use scripture and logic to iron this out.
Thank you.
If you notice my post, I put the word rapture in parentheses because I realize that it is a word commonly used for what will happen to believers when Jesus returns for us. But, my comments speak to what happens on the very last day when Jesus returns. There will be some who are alive at that event, and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 explains what will happen to both those who have died and those still alive at His final coming. Everyone, both believers and unbelievers will be judged at that time, as far as I have gathered from reading.
As far as Hebrews 9:27, this passage is not speaking to the time of Christ's return as far as I can tell.
As for where all believers of all time will reside after Jesus comes and we are all changed, I have no doubt that God has prepared a place for us, as Jesus stated. As to where this place is, I do not think that Scripture clearly specifies. But Jesus did say that He was going to prepare a place for us. And the place He went to was heaven.
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