I don't believe in the pre-trib "rapture". I believe the believers are going to be here during the 7 years of tribulation. At the time of Christ's second coming, is when the dead and the living believers will be taken up in the clouds.
Rose let me give ya my thoughts on Luke 17 :34 & 36...Peter tells us we must be bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of God...And that y Jesus wants to sow his precious seed in our hearts that it might initiate a heavenly Birth of Christ in us....But Satan wants to sow a tare in our hearts....MAKING US 2 PPL, Then we are involved in a warfare..Kingdom against Kingdom...Then there is war in heaven..With in us..In our hearts and minds...Thats where the good seed is sown....But they asked Jesus master did you not sow good seed in your field....Jesus said an enemy has done this...Thats y Paul was saying with my mind (the wheat ) i serve the law of God but with my flesh ( the tare ) the law of sin....When i wd do good good evil is present with me...O wretched man that i am....Paul had become 2 persons b/c of the tare.
Thats y Jesus said the kingdom of heaven suffers violence....but the violent take it by force....The Wheat is gona take it by force...This kingdom against Kingdom war is gona be won by the wheat which is the H.G...The manchild that is gona rule all nations.
.....Thus the 2 men in 1 bed is just 1 man that has been bornagain by the good seed but within his heart there is another man the TARE Satan .....one is gonna be taken and one is gonna be burnt to ashes.....Jesus said i will say to the reapers gather up the tares in bundles and BURN THEM....But the wheat to my barn the kingdom....Remember Paul said i see another law in my members waring against my mind etc..which was the tare...Paul had become 2 ppl spiritually speaking.
.....Same thing with the 2 woman grinding at the mill is just 1 woman that has been bornagain....But satan has sown a tare in her heart making her 2 woman...But 1 is gona be taken and 1 is gona beleft....Jesus said that the tares are gona be gathered in bundles and burnt.
......Same thing with the 2 men in the field is just 1 man that is involved in a war with satan and his tares...Remember John saw War in heaven.
I do not believe in a pre-trib. rapture. The following verse would suggest that believers will see the anti-christ which takes us through chapter 14 of Revelation. 2 Thessalonians 2 1-3,Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; It appears the saints are still on earth in Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. Maybe the reason the church isn't mentioned in Revelation is she has defiled herself with the whore of Revelation 17 & 18. Maybe just isolated pockets of believers at that time within the so called church. Remember in the first part of Revelation Jesus said he would remove their candlestick if they didn't repent. Just some thoughts.
I agree with U Rose , In verse 31 and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back (to the things behind).
32 Remember Lot's wife, she looked back.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose it shall preserve it alive. ( this is when God's elect makes a stand against the anti-christ)
34 I tell you, in that (night) there shall be two persons upon one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. ( The one doing the taking "at night" is the anti-christ) key word is "night" what comes before day? the night, one shall be taken by the anti-christ, the other shall remain,,, left behind is false teaching by many,,,, be the one left behind.
35 Two women shall be grinding to the same end; the one shall be taken, and the other left." ( One will be taken in the deception by the anti-christ, the other left behind)
36 Two men shall be in the field; (field being The World) the one shall be taken, and the other left. (Harkening diligently unto the voice of our Lord God) The Rapture is a Soul Hunt!
Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Once the 144,000 are sealed with the seal of God, the 5th trump sounds, Satan's fallen angels are here.
God's very elect are the 7,000 from all races, Acts 2
Romans 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
What did God tell Satan & his angels, Touch not My Elect, that have the seal of God in their forehead
Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them (Satan & his angels) that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Those who have the seal of God(Sealed)during the Hour of Temptation will not be touched by this wrath, which IS the wrath of God.
All who are alive and remain go through the tribulation, question is DO YOU HAVE THE SEAL???
Luke, I read the context before and after Romans 11:4. Romans is written by Paul, but he is referencing God. The 7000 is referring to Jews. To this day, how many Jews accepted Yeshua as their Messiah? I seen a video by a Gentile street preacher, who made the mistake of preaching Jesus the Christ in Jerusalem. Immediately, there was a violent reaction by a Jew. He kept spitting and yelling at the street preacher.
Are you saying of all the generations of all the people since Biblical time, only 7000 are saved? Nothing in Acts 2 says anything about 7000. I'm thinking this number refers to the Jews.
In the end times during the great tribulation (Many) will bow to the anti-christ (Baal being a type of)pretending to be the true Christ, except for God's Very Election/The 7000 who will stand against the anti-christ,,, those who God have reserved for this very day,,, 7000 is a figure of speech, it's symbolic of the biblical number 7 which means perfection (multiplied)
Romans told you God had reserved these Election.
And in Acts 2 tells us what these Election who are alive and remain do in the end times.
since These Elect will not bow to the false messiah,,, they get delivered up unto.
These Elect in that day will be of One mind together speaking the words of the Holy Spirit, a tongue like a double edged sword that cuts both ways.
You're not alone in thinking you will go through this time of God's wrath. I personally believe in Pre-Trib because 1 Thessalonians 5:9 says, "For God has not appointed us to wrath, (that is judgment), but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
Paul is saying, "Don't let people come in there and tell you that you're in the tribulation period and you're going to have to go through this terrible time. God hasn't appointed us for that. He's appointed us for salvation. When I read the chapters in Revelation that talk about the tribulation, there's no mention of the church. Where's the church? If the church is here during this time, why is the church not mentioned?
If I may ask, if this happens during our lifetime (Even so, come Lord Jesus), and you believe you will be here, according to the Bible, what would God have you doing during this time?
Did you know that there will be two future resurrections? One will be when Christ comes for His church (Rapture), where all believers who have died will be resurrected to meet the Lord in the air. (1 Thessalonians Chapter 4). Non-believers are not taken at the rapture. They do not belong to Christ.
Please know that the rapture is not the second coming of Christ. At the rapture, Christ does not come all the way to the earth. We (Believers) meet Him in the air. There will be a second resurrection after the 1,000-year reign of Christ. That will be for all the wicked dead who rejected Jesus Christ.
My understanding is that at the rapture, the dead in Christ rise first, and then we (believers) who are alive on the earth when Christ comes for His bride (The church), we will be caught up also to meet the Lord in the air. Again, this is not His second coming. During the time of tribulation (God's wrath being poured out), we, as His bride, will be participating at the marriage feast in heaven. And then Christ comes back to the earth (His second coming) and we come back with Him. That's found in Rev. Chapter 19.
However, I don't understand verses 34-36.
Thats y Jesus said the kingdom of heaven suffers violence....but the violent take it by force....The Wheat is gona take it by force...This kingdom against Kingdom war is gona be won by the wheat which is the H.G...The manchild that is gona rule all nations.
.....Thus the 2 men in 1 bed is just 1 man that has been bornagain by the good seed but within his heart there is another man the TARE Satan .....one is gonna be taken and one is gonna be burnt to ashes.....Jesus said i will say to the reapers gather up the tares in bundles and BURN THEM....But the wheat to my barn the kingdom....Remember Paul said i see another law in my members waring against my mind etc..which was the tare...Paul had become 2 ppl spiritually speaking.
.....Same thing with the 2 woman grinding at the mill is just 1 woman that has been bornagain....But satan has sown a tare in her heart making her 2 woman...But 1 is gona be taken and 1 is gona beleft....Jesus said that the tares are gona be gathered in bundles and burnt.
......Same thing with the 2 men in the field is just 1 man that is involved in a war with satan and his tares...Remember John saw War in heaven.
32 Remember Lot's wife, she looked back.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose it shall preserve it alive. ( this is when God's elect makes a stand against the anti-christ)
34 I tell you, in that (night) there shall be two persons upon one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. ( The one doing the taking "at night" is the anti-christ) key word is "night" what comes before day? the night, one shall be taken by the anti-christ, the other shall remain,,, left behind is false teaching by many,,,, be the one left behind.
35 Two women shall be grinding to the same end; the one shall be taken, and the other left." ( One will be taken in the deception by the anti-christ, the other left behind)
36 Two men shall be in the field; (field being The World) the one shall be taken, and the other left. (Harkening diligently unto the voice of our Lord God) The Rapture is a Soul Hunt!
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Once the 144,000 are sealed with the seal of God, the 5th trump sounds, Satan's fallen angels are here.
God's very elect are the 7,000 from all races, Acts 2
Romans 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
What did God tell Satan & his angels, Touch not My Elect, that have the seal of God in their forehead
Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them (Satan & his angels) that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Those who have the seal of God(Sealed)during the Hour of Temptation will not be touched by this wrath, which IS the wrath of God.
All who are alive and remain go through the tribulation, question is DO YOU HAVE THE SEAL???
Are you saying of all the generations of all the people since Biblical time, only 7000 are saved? Nothing in Acts 2 says anything about 7000. I'm thinking this number refers to the Jews.
In the end times during the great tribulation (Many) will bow to the anti-christ (Baal being a type of)pretending to be the true Christ, except for God's Very Election/The 7000 who will stand against the anti-christ,,, those who God have reserved for this very day,,, 7000 is a figure of speech, it's symbolic of the biblical number 7 which means perfection (multiplied)
Romans told you God had reserved these Election.
And in Acts 2 tells us what these Election who are alive and remain do in the end times.
since These Elect will not bow to the false messiah,,, they get delivered up unto.
These Elect in that day will be of One mind together speaking the words of the Holy Spirit, a tongue like a double edged sword that cuts both ways.
Are you asking for help with Luke 17:34-36?
You're not alone in thinking you will go through this time of God's wrath. I personally believe in Pre-Trib because 1 Thessalonians 5:9 says, "For God has not appointed us to wrath, (that is judgment), but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
Paul is saying, "Don't let people come in there and tell you that you're in the tribulation period and you're going to have to go through this terrible time. God hasn't appointed us for that. He's appointed us for salvation. When I read the chapters in Revelation that talk about the tribulation, there's no mention of the church. Where's the church? If the church is here during this time, why is the church not mentioned?
If I may ask, if this happens during our lifetime (Even so, come Lord Jesus), and you believe you will be here, according to the Bible, what would God have you doing during this time?
Did you know that there will be two future resurrections? One will be when Christ comes for His church (Rapture), where all believers who have died will be resurrected to meet the Lord in the air. (1 Thessalonians Chapter 4). Non-believers are not taken at the rapture. They do not belong to Christ.
Please know that the rapture is not the second coming of Christ. At the rapture, Christ does not come all the way to the earth. We (Believers) meet Him in the air. There will be a second resurrection after the 1,000-year reign of Christ. That will be for all the wicked dead who rejected Jesus Christ.
My understanding is that at the rapture, the dead in Christ rise first, and then we (believers) who are alive on the earth when Christ comes for His bride (The church), we will be caught up also to meet the Lord in the air. Again, this is not His second coming. During the time of tribulation (God's wrath being poured out), we, as His bride, will be participating at the marriage feast in heaven. And then Christ comes back to the earth (His second coming) and we come back with Him. That's found in Rev. Chapter 19.
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