Thanks Earl but again we disagree on all those scriptures you presented.
You asked "What does the overcomer, overcome" as if all overcome. Nowhere in scripture presents this.
We would be revisiting a pass discussion where this was put to rest using these scriptures: Revelation 20:1-15. and Revelation 22:10-11.
( The so-called refining fire you're presenting has already past back in Revelation 20:1-15. )
By the time we get to these verses we have the outcome of two groups with separate destinations.
Revelation 22:10-11
And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND.
(Yet there still remains the unjust AFTER JUDGMENT. )
HE THAT IS UNJUST, LET HIM BE UNJUST STILL: AND HE WHICH IS FILTHY, LET HIM BE FILTHY STILL:................AND HE THAT IS RIGHTEOUS, LET HIM BE RIGHTEOUS STILL: AND HE THAT IS HOLY, LET HIM BE HOLY STILL.
Revelation 22:14-15
"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city............
FOR WITHOUT ARE DOGS, AND SORCERERS, AND WHOREMONGERS, AND MURDERERS, AND IDOLATERS, AND WHOSOEVER LOVETH AND MAKETH A LIE.
Again everyone doesn't overcome. Revelation 21:7 is one group. Revelation 21:8 is another.
here in revelation 22:11 it says let him holy or unjust ect...still!
earl this suggests after this lifetime and after judgment.
( he that is unjust, let him be unjust "still:" and he which is filthy, let him be filthy... "still:"... and he that is righteous, let him be righteous... "still":... and he that is holy, let him be holy "...still".)
revelation 22:14-15 verifies that!
" blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life,...and may enter in through the gates into the city.....
"for without" are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."
"after" this life some will remain righteousness that will enter in through the gates into the city.
and there are some who will remain unjust " the dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." who will be without the city.
and revelation 21:8 tells us where they're going!
"but the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
also: revelation 20:13-15 states "and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." this suggests after this life!!
daniel spoke of this in daniel 12:2 "and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
this also suggests 2 groups after this life in an everlasting condition! ( unjust still and righteous still.)
jesus makes reference to 2 groups, 2 destinations after this life in
matthew 25:41-46.
and it's everlasting not a refining fire!!
come on earl let's humble ourselves and not get in the way of this great truth.
Isn't everyone a unbeliever before they are a believer?
Isn't everyone a liar?
Isn't everyone fearful?
The lake of fire is Christ.
Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
If your in Christ and Christ is in you; then your in the FIRE.
Matthew 3:11 ....and he shall baptise you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.
Malachi 3:2 And who shall abide the day of his coming (Christ in you, Colossians 1:27, baptised into his name)? and who can stand when he (TRUTH and LIFE, John 14:6) appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire and a fullers soap.
Malachi 3:3 And he shall set (in you) as a refiner and purifier of silver: that YOU may offer unto the Lord an offering in RIGHTEOUSNESS.
HE THAT OVERCOMETH shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
( THAT'S ONE GROUP)
The conjunction "BUT" seems to separate 2 groups.
(HERE'S THE OTHER GROUP.)
BUT the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Is it not unbelief, fearfulness, lying, hating his brothers, etc.
The same fire and brimstone that is the second death (after the second resurrection) is also the first death (after the first resurrection); that the overcomer goes through.
Revelation 9:18 By these three were the "THIRD PART" (the overcomers) of man killed (first death), by the fire, by the smoke, and by brimstone, which issued of of their mouth.
Issued out of THEIR MOUTH ....the WORD OF GOD .....the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone.
The THIRD PART:
Ezekiel 5:2 Thou shall burn with fire a THIRD PART .....
Ezekiel 5:3 Thou shalt also take thereof A FEW in number ....
Ezekiel 5:4 And take of THEM (the FEW) again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire, for THEREOF shall A FIRE come forth unto the house of Israel.
Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, TWO THIRDS shall be cut off and DIE, but the THIRD PART shall be left therein ( Luke 17:34-35).
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the THIRD PART through the fire.
Obadiah 1:18 ...and the house of Jacob SHALL BE A FIRE, and the house of Joseph A FLAME, and the house of Esau stubble, and THEY shall kindle IN THEM, and DEVOUR THEM ......
IN THEM: You don't go to heaven.
Obadiah 1:21 And saviours (those who are the image of Christ) shall come upon mount Zion TO JUDGE the mount of ESAU; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.
This would be unbelievers. It says, but the fearful, which is the word coward. But the coward, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, (that's immoral people), sorcerers, which is the word PHARMAKEA for drugs, idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Now these descriptions are not acts that people commit. These are people. A person who is a coward, a person who is an unbeliever. And whenever you find these adjectives or nouns that describe a person's lifestyle or spiritual condition, it's not what a person does, it's who a person is.
They will be cast into the lake of fire (Hell), which is the second death.
You asked "What does the overcomer, overcome" as if all overcome. Nowhere in scripture presents this.
We would be revisiting a pass discussion where this was put to rest using these scriptures: Revelation 20:1-15. and Revelation 22:10-11.
( The so-called refining fire you're presenting has already past back in Revelation 20:1-15. )
By the time we get to these verses we have the outcome of two groups with separate destinations.
Revelation 22:10-11
And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND.
(Yet there still remains the unjust AFTER JUDGMENT. )
HE THAT IS UNJUST, LET HIM BE UNJUST STILL: AND HE WHICH IS FILTHY, LET HIM BE FILTHY STILL:................AND HE THAT IS RIGHTEOUS, LET HIM BE RIGHTEOUS STILL: AND HE THAT IS HOLY, LET HIM BE HOLY STILL.
Revelation 22:14-15
"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city............
FOR WITHOUT ARE DOGS, AND SORCERERS, AND WHOREMONGERS, AND MURDERERS, AND IDOLATERS, AND WHOSOEVER LOVETH AND MAKETH A LIE.
Again everyone doesn't overcome. Revelation 21:7 is one group. Revelation 21:8 is another.
The scriptures I quoted doesn't disagree with there being two groups of people IN THIS AGE.
Two thirds shall die and a third left there in.
I do know one thing. God has a purpose and a time for everything; therefore, You and I and everyone on this site ARE IN THE PLACE OF GOD. HIS WORKS.
Genesis 50:19-20
God Bless YOU, his body.
here in revelation 22:11 it says let him holy or unjust ect...still!
earl this suggests after this lifetime and after judgment.
( he that is unjust, let him be unjust "still:" and he which is filthy, let him be filthy... "still:"... and he that is righteous, let him be righteous... "still":... and he that is holy, let him be holy "...still".)
revelation 22:14-15 verifies that!
" blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life,...and may enter in through the gates into the city.....
"for without" are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."
"after" this life some will remain righteousness that will enter in through the gates into the city.
and there are some who will remain unjust " the dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie." who will be without the city.
and revelation 21:8 tells us where they're going!
"but the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
also: revelation 20:13-15 states "and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." this suggests after this life!!
daniel spoke of this in daniel 12:2 "and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
this also suggests 2 groups after this life in an everlasting condition! ( unjust still and righteous still.)
jesus makes reference to 2 groups, 2 destinations after this life in
matthew 25:41-46.
and it's everlasting not a refining fire!!
come on earl let's humble ourselves and not get in the way of this great truth.
Isn't everyone a unbeliever before they are a believer?
Isn't everyone a liar?
Isn't everyone fearful?
The lake of fire is Christ.
Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
If your in Christ and Christ is in you; then your in the FIRE.
Matthew 3:11 ....and he shall baptise you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.
Malachi 3:2 And who shall abide the day of his coming (Christ in you, Colossians 1:27, baptised into his name)? and who can stand when he (TRUTH and LIFE, John 14:6) appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire and a fullers soap.
Malachi 3:3 And he shall set (in you) as a refiner and purifier of silver: that YOU may offer unto the Lord an offering in RIGHTEOUSNESS.
God Bless You.
Revelation 21:7 contradicts your view.
HE THAT OVERCOMETH shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
( THAT'S ONE GROUP)
The conjunction "BUT" seems to separate 2 groups.
(HERE'S THE OTHER GROUP.)
BUT the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
What does the overcomer, overcome:
Is it not unbelief, fearfulness, lying, hating his brothers, etc.
The same fire and brimstone that is the second death (after the second resurrection) is also the first death (after the first resurrection); that the overcomer goes through.
Revelation 9:18 By these three were the "THIRD PART" (the overcomers) of man killed (first death), by the fire, by the smoke, and by brimstone, which issued of of their mouth.
Issued out of THEIR MOUTH ....the WORD OF GOD .....the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone.
The THIRD PART:
Ezekiel 5:2 Thou shall burn with fire a THIRD PART .....
Ezekiel 5:3 Thou shalt also take thereof A FEW in number ....
Ezekiel 5:4 And take of THEM (the FEW) again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire, for THEREOF shall A FIRE come forth unto the house of Israel.
Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, TWO THIRDS shall be cut off and DIE, but the THIRD PART shall be left therein ( Luke 17:34-35).
Zechariah 13:9 And I will bring the THIRD PART through the fire.
Obadiah 1:18 ...and the house of Jacob SHALL BE A FIRE, and the house of Joseph A FLAME, and the house of Esau stubble, and THEY shall kindle IN THEM, and DEVOUR THEM ......
IN THEM: You don't go to heaven.
Obadiah 1:21 And saviours (those who are the image of Christ) shall come upon mount Zion TO JUDGE the mount of ESAU; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.
God Bless YOU.
This would be unbelievers. It says, but the fearful, which is the word coward. But the coward, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, (that's immoral people), sorcerers, which is the word PHARMAKEA for drugs, idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Now these descriptions are not acts that people commit. These are people. A person who is a coward, a person who is an unbeliever. And whenever you find these adjectives or nouns that describe a person's lifestyle or spiritual condition, it's not what a person does, it's who a person is.
They will be cast into the lake of fire (Hell), which is the second death.
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