In view of direct scripture that says the second coming will happen immediately AFTER the tribulation, ( Matthew 24: 29-31), why do so many well known and even respected Christian leaders support the pre-trib. rapture position?
It is amazing to me that people believe, then, in 'three comings' of Christ (albeit one of them is a 'secret' one), when the Bible clearly says, in Hebrews 9:28,
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
There is never a mention of 'three comings'. Very puzzling.
We are never, if in Christ, appointed to the wrath of God because of all that Jesus did for us; but the church has always been exposed to the wrath of man.
I've not been on here for a few days, until today; it's been a crazy weekend for my family. My sister's husband (who has Alzheimer's) fell and broke his femur just below the hip and had to have surgery yesterday for a partial hip replacement. Poor lad! As you can imagine, this has been a very tense time for my sister. She and her husband are in their mid-70's, so of course, all this is rather traumatic. But, we can testify that through it all, God's grace has been so powerful and so sustaining!
How are you and your family doing? How are your hands and feet, Gigi? Even though I've not been on here much, you and your family have been remembered in prayer. I've also particularly remembered your daughter-in-law!
I believe in a pre-trib rapture. I do agree with you that the second coming of Christ happens after the 7-year tribulation period. However, the rapture of the church is an event that takes place before the tribulation and is not to be confused with the second coming of Jesus Christ. The second coming of Christ is when Jesus will physically come all the way to the earth after the 7-year tribulation period. At the rapture (pre-trib), believers will be removed from the wrath to come and will meet Christ in the air. This is not His second coming as He does not come all the way to the earth. While wrath is being poured out on this earth during the tribulation, believers will be with the Lord and will participate in the marriage feast. At the end of the seven year period, at the second coming, believers will come back with Christ when He comes to rule and reign for 1,000 years.
Amen! I like how this brother Spencer here referred to it as the old "blessed hope." Be careful with the topic though. There's always a millennialistic replacement theology teacher to hop into these threads stating the rapture, tribulation and 2nd coming already happened. I won't get into why that's unbiblical and sinful to teach (not enough characters to type a full rebuke). But, those of your who know what's coming and are ready...what a wonderful day that will be.
I've been very busy and just noticed a few comments removed.
I never understood why this particular topic brings such division in people, I'm not talking about the different views but how it tends to divide the brothern.
Don't get me wrong, everyone amongst us is not of us. You would think some of that energy would be saved for a salvation issue.
We are to be looking for that blessing hope. Not wrath.
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Titus 2:12-13.
We are not looking for wrath.
Zephaniah 1:14-15. The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
1 Thessalonians 5:9. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Some argue that Christ comes after the tribulation but before Christ pours out his wrath but
2 Thessalonians 2:7-8. seems to suggest not.
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, UNTIL HE BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY.
( And then shall that Wicked be revealed,) whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"
The Holyspirit would never be removed and leave the Church behind. John 14:17-18. Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU COMFORTLESS: I will come to you.
Yes, Christ is our blessed hope and we are not appointed unto His wrath. I think 1 Thessalonians 5:9 is often overlooked. The grace of God teaches us to deny all ungodliness. The word deny means to reject. When we're faced with ungodliness, we're to reject it. We have a position down here. We have an approach to the world and life down here, that we should reject the lusts, and the ungodliness, but live rightly lined up with God in respect and reverence for Him. But at the same time, looking for that blessed hope, that living hope that you mentioned, the glorious appearing. In the Greek text, it talks about the appearing of His glory, the appearing of the glory of the great God, and our Savior Jesus Christ. So that's our position. That's our life summed up in the believer right there.
Now, where does this put us once we are raptured. We will not be here during the tribulation period. What purpose would we have here during that time? It wouldn't be to reach people for Christ. God already has a plan for that. During this terrible time on earth, once God's Spirit is removed, we will be participating in the marriage supper of the lamb. We are given this in Revelation Chapter 19. It talks about armies in heaven that will follow Christ upon white horses when He comes at His second coming. Who are these armies? That would be us. We are the ones who are clothed in fine linen, white and clean. ( Revelation 19:7-8).
Hi Bro. Jesse I hear what you and steven is saying about no wrath but you are not thinking in the Spirit...The scripture says outta of his mouth goes a sharp sword that he will smite the nations..thats his wrath... Rev 19 : 15...He treadeth the Wrath of God Almighty
....And Jesus said i come not to bring peace but a Sword...Thats his wrath...And the slain of the lord will be many. Wrath ...And his WORDS were softer then oil but war was in his heart...Wrath
....And Hebrews 12 : 8...But if you be without Chastisment where of all are partakers, Then are you bastards and not sons..Whom the LORD LOVETH he Chastens...His wrath is his love...If we donot partake of his Wrath we will not partake of his love.
.....Thats y he is saying I come to bring fire on the EARTH which is his Chastisment....Whom the lord LOVETH he chastens.. Hebrews 12 : 6 Which is his baptism of fire and the H.G...which is his wrath...but also his love
.....And Isaiah 66 : 16 kjv....For by the sword and fire will the Lord plead with ALL FLESH..which is his Wrath
....And in Rev. 16 : 1 kjv...God is gonna pour out his 7 bowls of Wrath upon the earth...And John saw war in heaven thus there is gonna be much Wrath.. Rev. 12 : 7.....Jesus cd not tell us to gether the tares and burn them if there was not any Wrath in his heart...His words were smother then OIL but war was in his heart.
......And everybody that has given birth to the wheat is gonna get a tare from the devil ...and his anger is kindled against the tares to burn them thus there is wrath against Satan and our old adamic nature that answers to the dog that returns to his vomit and the sow that returns to her mud....2 nd Peter 2: 22
....When ya say there is not any Wrath ( righteous indignation ) you are in essence saying there is not any love...Whom the LORD LOVETH HE CHASTENS....Remember when he threw the money changers out of the temple that was his Wrath...And we all defile his temple at times because of our of our old adamic nature .
Although not declared directly at the start of Christ's speech in the quoted chapter -- Christ indicates a fallen away church. The pre-tribulation rapture will not occur until the falling away occurs first. Then the rapture, then the tribulation and then the events you quoted leading to the 2nd coming. There is one rapture of the church and one 2nd coming of Christ to the Church.
The Bible states that "the" falling away will come first. The phrase falling away may also be translated 'apostasy' or the 'falling away from God's truth'. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 it specifically refers to the final apostasy (revolt), indicating that many will fall away from God's truth. If you look at the condition of the world we live in today, I'd say we're there now. When you look at Christianity today, you may just wonder, "Where is the Bible?" The decay of Biblical truths within the church is overwhelming.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God
I'm not sure why the modern church seeks so strongly to disprove pre-tribulation rapture but it'll happen whether you're ready or not. Same with the tribulation and same with the 2nd coming. Anyone wise in Christ will be waiting and ready as the early church was.
[Comment Removed]
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
There is never a mention of 'three comings'. Very puzzling.
We are never, if in Christ, appointed to the wrath of God because of all that Jesus did for us; but the church has always been exposed to the wrath of man.
Blessings...
Praise the Lord for His goodness to us!
I've not been on here for a few days, until today; it's been a crazy weekend for my family. My sister's husband (who has Alzheimer's) fell and broke his femur just below the hip and had to have surgery yesterday for a partial hip replacement. Poor lad! As you can imagine, this has been a very tense time for my sister. She and her husband are in their mid-70's, so of course, all this is rather traumatic. But, we can testify that through it all, God's grace has been so powerful and so sustaining!
How are you and your family doing? How are your hands and feet, Gigi? Even though I've not been on here much, you and your family have been remembered in prayer. I've also particularly remembered your daughter-in-law!
Blessings to you, dear sister...
I am sorry for your brother-in-law's serious fall and broken femur. I pray that God will bring successful and complete healing to his leg and hip.
I am doing well. My foot and hand have healed really well. Still some pain, but I am able to do most of what I could do before my surgery.
Thank you for your kind thoughts and prayers.
I believe in a pre-trib rapture. I do agree with you that the second coming of Christ happens after the 7-year tribulation period. However, the rapture of the church is an event that takes place before the tribulation and is not to be confused with the second coming of Jesus Christ. The second coming of Christ is when Jesus will physically come all the way to the earth after the 7-year tribulation period. At the rapture (pre-trib), believers will be removed from the wrath to come and will meet Christ in the air. This is not His second coming as He does not come all the way to the earth. While wrath is being poured out on this earth during the tribulation, believers will be with the Lord and will participate in the marriage feast. At the end of the seven year period, at the second coming, believers will come back with Christ when He comes to rule and reign for 1,000 years.
God. bless you.
You are right, those debates come frequently.
I've been very busy and just noticed a few comments removed.
I never understood why this particular topic brings such division in people, I'm not talking about the different views but how it tends to divide the brothern.
Don't get me wrong, everyone amongst us is not of us. You would think some of that energy would be saved for a salvation issue.
God bless you.
We are to be looking for that blessing hope. Not wrath.
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Titus 2:12-13.
We are not looking for wrath.
Zephaniah 1:14-15. The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
1 Thessalonians 5:9. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Some argue that Christ comes after the tribulation but before Christ pours out his wrath but
2 Thessalonians 2:7-8. seems to suggest not.
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, UNTIL HE BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY.
( And then shall that Wicked be revealed,) whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:"
The Holyspirit would never be removed and leave the Church behind. John 14:17-18. Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
I WILL NOT LEAVE YOU COMFORTLESS: I will come to you.
The Holyspirit is the Comforter.
John 14:26.
God bless.
Yes, Christ is our blessed hope and we are not appointed unto His wrath. I think 1 Thessalonians 5:9 is often overlooked. The grace of God teaches us to deny all ungodliness. The word deny means to reject. When we're faced with ungodliness, we're to reject it. We have a position down here. We have an approach to the world and life down here, that we should reject the lusts, and the ungodliness, but live rightly lined up with God in respect and reverence for Him. But at the same time, looking for that blessed hope, that living hope that you mentioned, the glorious appearing. In the Greek text, it talks about the appearing of His glory, the appearing of the glory of the great God, and our Savior Jesus Christ. So that's our position. That's our life summed up in the believer right there.
Now, where does this put us once we are raptured. We will not be here during the tribulation period. What purpose would we have here during that time? It wouldn't be to reach people for Christ. God already has a plan for that. During this terrible time on earth, once God's Spirit is removed, we will be participating in the marriage supper of the lamb. We are given this in Revelation Chapter 19. It talks about armies in heaven that will follow Christ upon white horses when He comes at His second coming. Who are these armies? That would be us. We are the ones who are clothed in fine linen, white and clean. ( Revelation 19:7-8).
Blessings to you also!
....And Jesus said i come not to bring peace but a Sword...Thats his wrath...And the slain of the lord will be many. Wrath ...And his WORDS were softer then oil but war was in his heart...Wrath
....And Hebrews 12 : 8...But if you be without Chastisment where of all are partakers, Then are you bastards and not sons..Whom the LORD LOVETH he Chastens...His wrath is his love...If we donot partake of his Wrath we will not partake of his love.
.....Thats y he is saying I come to bring fire on the EARTH which is his Chastisment....Whom the lord LOVETH he chastens.. Hebrews 12 : 6 Which is his baptism of fire and the H.G...which is his wrath...but also his love
.....And Isaiah 66 : 16 kjv....For by the sword and fire will the Lord plead with ALL FLESH..which is his Wrath
....And in Rev. 16 : 1 kjv...God is gonna pour out his 7 bowls of Wrath upon the earth...And John saw war in heaven thus there is gonna be much Wrath.. Rev. 12 : 7.....Jesus cd not tell us to gether the tares and burn them if there was not any Wrath in his heart...His words were smother then OIL but war was in his heart.
......And everybody that has given birth to the wheat is gonna get a tare from the devil ...and his anger is kindled against the tares to burn them thus there is wrath against Satan and our old adamic nature that answers to the dog that returns to his vomit and the sow that returns to her mud....2 nd Peter 2: 22
....When ya say there is not any Wrath ( righteous indignation ) you are in essence saying there is not any love...Whom the LORD LOVETH HE CHASTENS....Remember when he threw the money changers out of the temple that was his Wrath...And we all defile his temple at times because of our of our old adamic nature .
God bless you.
[Comment Removed]
[Comment Removed]
The Bible states that "the" falling away will come first. The phrase falling away may also be translated 'apostasy' or the 'falling away from God's truth'. In 2 Thessalonians 2:3 it specifically refers to the final apostasy (revolt), indicating that many will fall away from God's truth. If you look at the condition of the world we live in today, I'd say we're there now. When you look at Christianity today, you may just wonder, "Where is the Bible?" The decay of Biblical truths within the church is overwhelming.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God
I'm not sure why the modern church seeks so strongly to disprove pre-tribulation rapture but it'll happen whether you're ready or not. Same with the tribulation and same with the 2nd coming. Anyone wise in Christ will be waiting and ready as the early church was.
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