Is not Luke 21:36 Proof of a pre-tribulation rapture? Pray you may be found worthy to escape these things. Escape what the Tribulation just described. I believe scripture as a whole makes a pre-tribulation rapture clear. Jesus taught it in John 14!
I personally believe we are going to be raptured. Pre-tribe, mid-tribe or from the grave is up to my Lord. He said to keep the faith until he comes. We are talking about 7 years. Seven years that the saints have been sealed by our Lord and Savior before the seal is loosed. I personally believe in pre-tribe but have no fear of mid or post tribe. It seems though, Christ Jesus, not being a respecter of persons, would almost have to make an apology to the early church for the torture they went thru for their faith to allow us to miss the tribulation. Just saying.
Jesus does not want us to be overly worked up about the timing of prophecy, because only God the Father knows when.
Jesus Himself, when He was on earth, said he did not know when some things would take place:
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Mark 13:32 (KJV)
Before His ascension, Jesus was pressed by his disciples about the time of fulfillment of some prophecies. He responded by saying they should not be too worked up about the timing of an event which God only controls, but that they should focus on the job of soulwinning instead, after receiving the Holy Spirit:
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1:6-8 (KJV).
One thing we know for sure: Christ is not coming back until the world has been reached with the Gospel:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Hey George, I just want to share some verses with you. But first, Luke 21 and Mark 13 are parallel passages of Matthew 24. I would think that most people would agree, though there are differences between the three chapters mostly because each account of the same Olivet discourse was witnessed by 3 different disciples so each one would write of the discourse from their viewpoint being led of the Holy Ghost.
Secondly, I do not see anywhere in John 14 the teaching of a pre-trib rapture. I see where Jesus will come for us and we be with him forever but I do not see a timeline, the hour that he comes for us.
Matthew 24:29-31, Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the son be darkened, and the moon shall to give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
I Thessalonians 2:15-16, For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with hem in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
II Thessalonians 2:1-3, Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,a nod by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
It seems to fit; but also the warnings of those whose garments needed to be made white through the blood of the lamb could indicate those not fit for the Rapture; if indeed it is a reward not a salvation issue. It also challenges those who truly are saved now. Certainly there are resurrections; of the 2 witnesses and likely the 144,000 in the Tribulation; and a remnant physically survive into the Millenium. The point being; as you stated the verse in Luke about praying in Latin uses a ward for "agony" so that it is clearly only a few involved. Let's face it not too many believers are doing this. To pray to be worthy surely would indicate something like the Malachi 3 indication of a book of remembrance of those who fear the Lord; and a crown for those who are longing and waiting patiently for His return as the N.T. indicates. There are many tares mixed in with the wheat today.
There of course are issues with many who have for decades now tried to pinpoint a date. Now; it would appear the last generation didn't start in 1948 according to the Psalm 90:10 principle. I have a theory on that as well. The point is; He is with us until the end of the Age. Those who need to be warned are those not prepared; not those who love the Lord. If we are wrong there they will deal with whatever happens as they always have; in faith. But from my observations; the faithful are browbeaten about being strong enough to endure the Tribulation. I am convinced all the preparation is fruitless for that; although wisdom surely should determine resources now if He tarries with eventual power grid; food supply and wartime scenarios. There is a proverb that he who is wise winneth souls; and "he who sows in tears will reap in joy" or something to that affect. ( Psalm 126:6). We should strive to be faithful servants until He returns; not as the unwise who gets drunk and beats his fellowservants!
Although I also believe in a Pre-Tribulation rapture, I do not think that Luke 21:36 would show proof of that. Also, I am not too sure about John Chapter 14 giving definitive proof. Are you referring to John 14:3 by chance? Some people think John 14:3 is the rapture of the church, and some people think it is the second coming of Christ. Personally, I believe that it describes the time when we receive Christ. Jesus says He's leaving but He is coming back, that where Jesus is, we will be also. And where is the Lord right now? If we've received Christ, He lives in us. We are that dwelling place. We are that mansion!
I have seen many Christians debate this topic passionately and I personally have never taken part as I haven't formed a solid opinion, knowing that end times isn't a salvation issue and that we're just to be on guard regardless of how the end times plays out. But this one verse seems convincing and I wonder what verse do people cite who believe in post tribulation rapture?
Matthew 24:29,30 -AFTER the tribulation of those days..' etc.
The youtube channel 'Servus Christi' does an very methodical expounding of the rapture question. If you type in his channel name and 'rapture' it will pop up.
Jesus does not want us to be overly worked up about the timing of prophecy, because only God the Father knows when.
Jesus Himself, when He was on earth, said he did not know when some things would take place:
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Mark 13:32 (KJV)
Before His ascension, Jesus was pressed by his disciples about the time of fulfillment of some prophecies. He responded by saying they should not be too worked up about the timing of an event which God only controls, but that they should focus on the job of soulwinning instead, after receiving the Holy Spirit:
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Acts 1:6-8 (KJV).
One thing we know for sure: Christ is not coming back until the world has been reached with the Gospel:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matt 24:14 (KJV)
Secondly, I do not see anywhere in John 14 the teaching of a pre-trib rapture. I see where Jesus will come for us and we be with him forever but I do not see a timeline, the hour that he comes for us.
Matthew 24:29-31, Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the son be darkened, and the moon shall to give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
I Thessalonians 2:15-16, For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with hem in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
II Thessalonians 2:1-3, Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,a nod by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
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There of course are issues with many who have for decades now tried to pinpoint a date. Now; it would appear the last generation didn't start in 1948 according to the Psalm 90:10 principle. I have a theory on that as well. The point is; He is with us until the end of the Age. Those who need to be warned are those not prepared; not those who love the Lord. If we are wrong there they will deal with whatever happens as they always have; in faith. But from my observations; the faithful are browbeaten about being strong enough to endure the Tribulation. I am convinced all the preparation is fruitless for that; although wisdom surely should determine resources now if He tarries with eventual power grid; food supply and wartime scenarios. There is a proverb that he who is wise winneth souls; and "he who sows in tears will reap in joy" or something to that affect. ( Psalm 126:6). We should strive to be faithful servants until He returns; not as the unwise who gets drunk and beats his fellowservants!
Although I also believe in a Pre-Tribulation rapture, I do not think that Luke 21:36 would show proof of that. Also, I am not too sure about John Chapter 14 giving definitive proof. Are you referring to John 14:3 by chance? Some people think John 14:3 is the rapture of the church, and some people think it is the second coming of Christ. Personally, I believe that it describes the time when we receive Christ. Jesus says He's leaving but He is coming back, that where Jesus is, we will be also. And where is the Lord right now? If we've received Christ, He lives in us. We are that dwelling place. We are that mansion!
The youtube channel 'Servus Christi' does an very methodical expounding of the rapture question. If you type in his channel name and 'rapture' it will pop up.
Blessings!
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