Bible Discussion Thread

If God wills something to happen, is there anything we as human beings can do to stop it from happening? People talk about free will, but is our free will ever stronger than God's will? I hear people say that God does not force us to do anything, but if it is His will for something to happen, can we use our free will to prevent it from happening?

A free will will end in disaster.

For the Lord Jesus did only what the Father told Him. But Jesus also longed for something He knew. So when we believe and long for something we can not see with our earthly eyes. Will the vision fail, true? Not always, we have 100,000 and more that prove that a vision holds. But that vision must come from the Lord, then there is no free will.

Not One day since i bent my knee i can say i live in my own will!

Because Jesus lives in me!

Everything He did was just good. He also just wants Good. He heals me every day to think / do / live / and work for His church. If one day i have not been able to work the way I want to. I know Jesus lives in me, little me. He encourages me, leads me where i do not want to go. There are the essence friends. He leads me to pray / wake up at night, and pray. I constantly think in my spare time thinking about the Lord and His kingdom. Is it not so beloved friends? The freedom i have is to talk about Jesus, remind other people of the kingdom of God, and so on, and that by only the Grace of God. Now i was reminded of a word again also Mark 10:30 here is a clear answer that our free will is a promise on what we do not see! Chew on persecutions, i get laughed every time i come across this verse as the Lord Himself says. Stay blessed all and dont follow your own will. Be happy for something bigger than u can see will reveal in you, and even one day we meet there as Jesus Is.

Walk on the road and always be happy, know that we will come home to the Father Himself and see Jesus and all the loved ones who have gone before us. Thank Jesus Christ always.

God bless us all in Jesus name, love u in Christ.

Hello Free: Yes, "a free will will end in disaster" every time when it goes against God's will. Kay spoke of surrendering to Christ and being in submission to Him. I believe that is the key to everything. The things you wrote are a perfect example of what it means to be in submission to God's will. I love how you never gave yourself credit for the things in your walk with the Lord, but you credit Him for everything. Amen!

I want to just comment on your last statement "Walk on the road and always be happy, know that we will come home to the Father Himself and see Jesus and all the loved ones who have gone before us."

Free, that is a beautiful statement. We can know with complete confidence that we one day will be brought home. In fact, it is God's will to bring us home one day, and His will can never be broken. ( John 6:39-40). God Bless you!

Not long after I replied to your question, I noticed the statement looked incomplete. I decided to leave it believing you would understand based on the previous sentence. Then the LORD confirmed the thought with scripture!

Samuel wept for Saul. Samuel being the Judge of Israel: 1Samuel 7:15, Samuel came on the scene because Eli & his sons were dishonoring GOD & GOD's laws. As set forth in the Books of Deuteronomy, & Leviticus, given to Moses, recorded in Exodus 24 - 30, full chapters & Numbers. 1Samuel 1, 1Samuel 2:22-25, 1Samuel 2:11-18, they were the Priests yet they did their own will. (also fitting for your question) 1Samuel 2:27-36, 1Samuel 2:26, 1Samuel 3, = 1Samuel 4, please note also in Exodus 32, these were actions out of GOD's will, Genesis 13:13, Genesis 19, Yet when Abraham prayed GOD would have spared them all if there were 10 righteous at Abraham's request Genesis 18:16-33,

also comes to mind, GOD allows people to intercede on behalf of others even sinful, the ultimate example is Jesus, even now on our behalf

2Peter 3:9, Luke 17:25-30, 2Chronicles 16:9, Romans 8:34,

With all of these. Why do you ask?

Genesis 1:28, John 16:23, John 14:13,

Hopefully these are all helpful

T Levis: The reason I ask is to see how others might describe "free will" and how it stands up to God's will. Thank you for sharing all these OT verses. There are many instances in the OT where we see God's will and people going against His will, and the consequences for doing so. So my point is that I believe in the end, God's will always prevails, even over our "free will." Thank you for your time and thoughts!

Perhaps we should look at Christ Himself; when Peter confronted him about his statements that the Son of Man would be led into the hands of men; and put to death. This was sharply rebuked as the thoughts of men; and Satan was directly rebuked as being the instigator of that thought. When we go back to the only other time Satan and Christ mentioned having a confrontation; we see largely the same theme; make these rocks be turned into bread; cast yourself down and God will lift you up (suicidal act); and of course his offer of the power of ALL the world's kingdoms if only He would bow down and worship him. These are the same concept; it was all about self; whether preservation; self-destruction (as Judas did after he betrayed Christ and couldn't live with the guilt of the consequences); or self-exaltation. We should focus not on the free will alone but the fact that we are incapable of doing anything pleasing in His sight short of a "heart transplant; otherwise known in Ezekiel as turning a "heart of stone to a heart of flesh."

It seems more commonplace for God to allow our own choices in order to futher His purposes (as He did for instance with Samson and the plans to destroy the Philistines). So; it is better said that all things are for the good for those who love God; and all things the wicked do ultimately lead to His glorification; even the destruction of the wicked. No man; clearly can wish himself out of hell successfully. His true measure is not seen as according to Isaiah; there was nothing in His appearance that would appeal to man. He is longsuffering with the wicked (at least those chosen before the foundation of the world) as He would see all men saved. It is not so much what we do on the outside; but the condition of the inner man; or soul which is utterly incapable of understanding agape love; or desiring the Lord. His power is feared; but His holiness is not appreciated.

Men's decisions are puny compared to God's wisdom.

Richard H Priday: I agree, looking at Christ Himself would be a great example. Jesus said that He came not to do His own will, but the will of His father who sent Him. Did Jesus have a "free will?" Could He have chosen to disobey His father? The answer to that would be no. Disobedience would have been considered sinful and it was impossible for Jesus to sin.

Before I get off track here, I just want to say that you make some great points. I can talk about the very same things you said but let it just suffice to say that I agree with everything you just said. Thank you!

Amen!

Well spoken Richard.

Last night I thought about how Samuel cryed over Saul, & I wondered if that is why Saul kept the power of the kingdom so long? 1Samuel 16:1 1Samuel 15:35, 1Samuel 28:5-20, 1Samuel 31, it was not GOD's Will for Saul to disobey HIM in multiple ways. Saul's kingdom was "ripped" from him, but was it because Samuel wept for him, mourned & sought GOD on Saul's behalf?

I remembered how Moses intercedede for all the Israelites that GOD was going to destroy & they are a nation today. Exodus 32:9-14,

Psalms 122:6, John 17, Ezekiel 22:23-31, John 14:14, John 16:24,

Hopefully these are helpful too, even though this is on the other spectrum of this discussion, yet fit within question I hope

Hi Lewis.

You've brought up a scenario that can also be used in this regard.

God wasn't ready to give Israel a King "yet." It was Israel's will not Gods.

1 Samuel 8:7-22.

God promised Israel a king out of Judah by the mouth of Jacob.

The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. Genesis 49:10,

Saul was never Gods choice as king

It was Israel using their free will that was against Gods will.

Israel is often called a stiff neck people for not obeying Gods commands.

First of all, thank you all for your thoughts. I asked this to better understand what people thought about free will vs. God's will. I wanted to get different ideas and did not intend it to be a "who's right and who's wrong" thing. I do have some thoughts of my own to share.

I believe that whatever God wills to happen, will happen. I do not believe there is anything we can do to stop His will from coming to fruition. We have freewill to do our own thing, but there will always be consequences if we choose our own route. I believe that whatever God's will for my life is, He will make it happen one way or another, regardless of what I choose to do. I would like to respond to each of you. You took the time to reply to my question so I think it's fair to give you my time. Any future replies, if I do not answer right away, or not at all, please take no offence. I will try to respond as the Lord leads.

Adam: I agree that we have free will. Even though those two words cannot be found in scripture, I understand the concept. To answer your question, "God has a will, but we don't know what it is so how would we 'stop' His will if we don't even know what it is?" I would say that we can't stop it regardless of whether we know what it is or not.



But do we know what God's will is? There are places in scripture that tell us. But do we know what His will is for our lives tomorrow? I can't say I do. All I can do is surrender to His will each and every day. Again, I know I have free will, but it is His will that I should always be in submission to meaning I am to reject myself daily and follow Him. That's how I remain in submission to His will at all times. I agree, God does not micromanage us but at the same time I think He expects us to be in submission to Him at all times. As you say, God allows us to make choices. But if those choices go against His will, His will is always going to prevail.

I will respond to the other commenters in a separate posts. Thank you Adam!

That's a good question. God gives us freewill to use. God has a will, but we don't know what it is so how would we 'stop' His will if we don't even know what it is? His already includes our will though since it's His will to give us freewill. God also has allowed humans to change His mind previously, as indicated in the Bible. So, God is powerful enough to allow Himself to change His mind.

In my opinion He's not micromanaging us and allows things to play out. He of course wants us to choose love and do good, but loves us enough to let us choose. I equate it to a parent forcing a child to say "I love you" vs. the child wanting to say it naturally. One is much more meaningful.

I don't believe the script is already written and don't believe in absolute predestination where we have no choices. Sometimes the assumption of lack of choice is used to justify committing evil. Proverbs 16:9 I believe God can guide us, especially when in prayer and asking for help. But in cases of guiding or directing I don't believe is the same as forcing or that you have no choice in the matter, but maybe more like bowling guiderails so we don't throw a gutter ball?

This is just an opinion and speculation.

Amen God's will:

Free will is one of man's doctrines, deceiving man. Man believes he has life of HIMSELF, when the word says LIFE is of God; therefore it is God living HIS LIFE in us (the vessel):

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD that worketh in us (his life) both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

The first children of Israel DIED in UNBELIEF, not knowing ALL IS OF GOD. He said I WILL destroy the nations before you.

The children didn't BELIEVE, all except Joshua and Caleb, but said, if we go into the land the giants will KILL US.

Instead God let their bodies wonder in the wilderness, until God pulled HIS LIFE from them and they returned to dust.

God Bless YOU!

ELB: Thanks for the reply. I am not sure I would call a doctrine. To me it's more of a concept. I do think that God allows us to choose. When you say it is God living his life in us, I agree. He has a will for each of us if we belong to Him, and He carries out His will, apart from our choices. I like to think about the story of Jonah. It was God's will that Jonah go to Nineveh. But Jonah had "free will" and he chose to go the opposite way. We know the outcome! You answered the question straight up at the beginning by saying God's will. Thank you!

Both.

They are not two of an opposite.

Is it Gods will to murder a child?

When a born again person"chooses" to fall into sin and he is instructed by God/Holyspirit to repent " Turn back to God"

There you have a picture of a son disobeying God using his/her free will. And you have a picture of God urging him/her back to back to the light, back to his will.

There you have God in relationship to "man's" free will.

Earl?

Spenser: Thank you for your reply. To answer your question, I would say no, I don't believe it is God's will to murder a child. God says thou shalt not murder but men still do commit murder. Every abortionist will have to stand before God one day and give an account. They will be held accountable. It took me a minute to get past your first statement "They are not two of an opposite," but as I read on, it makes sense what you are saying unless I am misunderstanding you. Your examples make a lot of sense. You describe a born again person exercising their "free will" and sinning against God, but then God stepping in, convicting that person and causing them to repent, turn back to God, and returning back into perfect fellowship with God. You have given a perfect description of God's will overriding man's free will. Thank you again for your reply.

Brother S Spencer: We shall see, one of us is wrong and one of us is right.

Even this is of GOD.

God Bless YOU!

As I pondered your thoughts, it came to me that, if we think of about it...why would we want to stop God's will, even if, in His divine Providence, He brings difficult situations to us, seeing that in His foreknowledge, wisdom, counsel, and understanding, and great love and mercy, He knows what He is doing and why He is doing it. Why fight against God? :) It is best to surrender to Him, and seek His face in all things that He brings us to and through, and let Him make us more like Him via the tools He is using in our lives.

Blessings,

-Kay-

Kay,

You hit the nail on the head. It is best to surrender to Him. I agree. As believers, I think it is God's will to bring us through this life until we one day go to be with Him. And yes, as you say, He sometimes places hardships in our lives for a reason. We don't always understand the reason. Some even curse God when they are going through extreme hardships. But if we truly surrender to Him, we then come to the realization that our hardships are designed by God to teach us to trust Him.

When you said "Why fight against God?" it reminded me of a time in my early Christian life where I came to that realization that most of my days were spent fighting against God. I didn't realize I was doing it, but I found myself many times doing my own thing (free will?), instead of what God would have me to do. God would put it on my heart to do something but I wanted to do something else. I had to make a choice, am I going to follow God, or my own free will? Oftentimes I did what I wanted to do instead. You see, I was dictating to God how my circumstances were going to turn out. In the end, God always wins. He has a way of bringing us into submission when we choose to go against what He wills in our lives.

Thank you so much for your reply, very short, but very true!