Bible Discussion Thread

I'm trying to understand what Jesus died for our sins really means. Jesus died on the cross for us so that we should not perish but have everlasting life, so How were people saved in the Old Testament if it was a time prior to Jesus death? how could they have eternal life? also if people could be saved prior to Jesus death then why did he have to die? I hope someone can help me understand, God bless you!

Hi Kenaket.

There's something I believe we have often missed is a passage in the book of Hebrews concerning Christ ministry and that is his priesthood had no beginning or ending.

Note what John the baptist has to say here in John 1:29. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

The old testament had rituals and services amongst many other things that pointed to the Lord Jesus Christ. You see this throughout the book of Hebrews.

God spoke to them in many ways. Hosea 12:10.

We look back at the cross, they looked ahead at the cross.

Here's Jesus in John 5:39. "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hebrews 10:5-10. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Then said I, Lo, I come (IN THE VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME,) to do thy will, O God.

Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

( Jesus is referring to old testament scripture )

1 Peter 1:18-20. Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

WHO VERILY WAS FOREORDAINED BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE WORLD,...( BUT WAS MANIFEST IN THESE LAST TIMES FOR YOU,...)

I hope this helps.

God bless.

OT saints were saved by faith just like NT saints were and believers today are.

Psalm 78:21-23

King James Version

21 Therefore the Lord heard this, and was wroth: so a fire was kindled against Jacob, and anger also came up against Israel;

22 Because they believed not in God, and trusted not in his salvation:

Romans 4:3

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Believers who died before Christ died on the cross for their sins will never go to hell because their justification was in believing God, not in knowing and understanding every detail of Jesus' death on the cross for their sins.

Wow Ken thats a good question...Even got me to thinking...But Jesus said if i be lifted up i will draw ALL men unto me...Thats everybody that ever lived...As the curse of Adam was applied to everyman that ever lived NO EXCEPTIONS...Thus there had to be a 2 nd ADAM Whose Blood wd be applied to every man NO EXCEPTIONS... 1 John 2 : 22 He was the propitiation for our sins and not just our sins but for the sins of the whole world...In Adam we all die but in Christ we will all live...Jesus told the Greeks unless a seed fall into the ground and die it abides alone but if it dies it will bring forth must fruit...impling there are gonna be many Christ that was the great Promise that Christ wd be multiplied as the stars of heaven...Thats y we must be bornagain of an incorruptible seed etc...The Greeks wanted to see him as we all want to see him...But we will not see him unless we birth him via the good seed the living word...the contents of that book that new covenant..That he wrote with his own blood.

..... Zech. 13 : 7 Smite the sheperd and the sheep will be scattered then i will turn my hand to the little ones...His offspring baby Christ the babes and sucklings...That can praise God perfectly...our New innerman, the H.G. The Children of PROMISE.

.....Jesus said truly i say unto you Unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in...This is y he died that he might live again in humanity via a birth a heavenly Birth...When a seed dies it multiplies...That we might all get a good seed a measure of faith...Without faith is is impossible to plz God...When John said behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world...Thats everybody that ever lived ...As God so loved the world that he gave us his only son etc.

Dear friend "Kenaket", Jesus died once for all. He died, went down to the realm of the dead and rose again after 3 days.

There is no one like Our God. He Is Unique!

There are no shortcuts i can point out for u. Hopefully you will come to the realization of truth as you read the Word of God. Becouse that Jesus Love u. God's Holy Scripture Is Jesus in the sense of the Word, and everything that is written in it, must be fulfilled.

Confess your sins and be baptized. The time is near for the Coming of our Lord Jesus.

Be blessed in His name Jesus, love u in Christ. 2 Corintihans 12

Hi , I'm guessing that you haven't read the Old Testament . I know many don't feel it's necessary but I disagree . If you had read it , then it would help your understanding of the New enormously . There are lots of people on here who will be able to answer your questions with ease because they have read the entire Bible , more than once and they are still doing so every day . My advice to you is to read it for yourself from Genesis to Revelation , if you really want to get to know your God and your Saviour , that's the best way . May God open your eyes and ears and heart and mind to His Word .

Hebrews 9:15

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

While some commentators say the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament only applied to believers under the law that came to faith after Jesus died, many say this applied to all sins committed by God's elect in all ages who had the faith of Hebrews 11:6 that pleased God. I take the later view. Also Hebrews 11:40 and Hebrews 12:1 show that the people in Hebrews 11 ultimately had their faith made perfect when we entered into the New Covenant.

They also had the first messianic promise of the Seed of the woman in the curse God uttered against the serpent immediately after the fall before he curse woman and man ( Genesis 3:15

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.)

The old testament was a progressive revelation of the promise within the serpent's curse in numerous ways. It was always expanded by God making other promises, like the promised multiplying of the seed of Abraham like the stars in the heavens which Abraham believed and by that faith was counted righteous. The Messianic Psalms of David. The prophesied Servant of Isaiah. The prophesied New Covenant of Jeremiah. And those are just a small sample of these kinds of promises. We know 2 Corinthiand 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. I believe Jesus was always an inseparable part of every promise God ever made in the Old Testament from the moment He made them and that is what those old testament saints were believing in, even if only seen in shadow. Even we still only know in part and see through a glass darkly when we look at God's prophetic promises 1 Corinthians 13:9-12.

I want to correct something I wrote in error. "Also Hebrews 11:40 and Hebrews 12:1 show that the people in Hebrews 11 ultimately HAD their faith made perfect when WE ENTERED into the New Covenant."

What Hebrews 11:40 really shows is that the people in Hebrews 11 WILL NOT be made perfect without us.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

This indicates a future perfection for both them and us, with our perfection either coming at the same time as theirs or before theirs. The perfection being spoken of I take to be the same as 1 Corinthians 13:10

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

I do believe that there is a connection in Hebrews 11 between the examples of faith before Christ the author lists and our faith in Christ ( Hebrews 11:6,9-10,14-16,19,25-26) as well as their future perfection and ours ( Hebrews 11:39-40), otherwise it is hard to understand the purpose of Hebrews 11 in my view.

Anyway, I wanted to correct what I said. It is harder than I thought to deal with topics that don't have an easy proof text and present them within a 2000 character limit without any mischaracterazation of scripture in my summaries. And in this case I did have a misunderstanding of what the author of Hebrews wrote that I only realized after reading the scriptures I had referenced more carefully.

People before jesus birth death and resurrection had the promise of salvation there sin was rolled forward each year by believing in the blood of a lamb sacrifice all sin passed present and future was put on Jesus at the cross if you look at the progression of the Lamb in the Bible in Genesis it was a lamb bloods shed that God had made coats of skins 3.21 for Adam and Eve they were sentence to Die that day but the blood of a innocent lamb Die instead of Adam and Eve pic of Jesus A innocent lamb dies so the guilty sinner can be covered . IN GENESIS 22 Abraham offered up Isaac God said lay not thine hand upon the lad then gives him a Ram instead of his son 22.13 Then we go to Exodus 11 God tells Moses that all the firstborn will Die then in chapter 12 God gives them the ordinary of the Lamb take a lamb on the 10 day put it in the house tel the 14 day made sure it had no BLEMISH then in the evening take it out side of the city and kill it at put the blood over the door And when death comes for you He will see the blood of the Lamb and will Passover you the firstborn of all was sentenced to Die But a innocent lamb dies instead of the firstborn pic of Jesus our passover Lamb 1corithians 5.7 John 1. 29 John seeth Jesus and saith Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world. God brings his lamb (Jesus) into his own house (Jerusalem) on the 10th day and they inspected him tell the 14th day and Pilate said i find no fault in him (God's Lamb) and they take him outside the city and kill God's lamb .I hope this will help you see the plans of God that was before the foundation of the world. 1 Peter 1.19-20 may God bless you always

If you remember, jesus was born of the virgin mary. she did not conceive by mankinds way of coception. she was touched by the holy spirit of god and became pregnant. so, jesus knew no sin and was the only one on this earth that could pay the price for our sins. he paid that debt on the cross at calvary. your question of before jesus and what people did. in the old testament, the israelites had sacrafices of certain animals that were unblemished. these sacrafices did not forgive sin, but these sacrafices only put the sin kinda off to the side. were not forgiven but kinda put sin on hold. i think it's one of the peter books where it talks about jesus going into the heart of the earth and preached to those souls there. these were the people that had always heard how god would send a savior, but these people died before jesus came. these people carried out the blood sacrafices of certain animals when they were alive and held to the hope that one day jesus would come and free them from the power of sin and death. sorry i don't have the bible verses for you, but this is just a little breakdown.