Having just started reading the Bible , Only first 5 books so far, I am lost. So far, as I can see, There is, always will be, only one God, Never to be another. And to worship any other God is wrong. I didn't see mention of A NEW god coming some day. So Now I think I've been lied too all this time ,till I do find some verses that change what the first 5 books say. right now I don't care what the New Testament says, till I get past this, And I want to get past this. I have watched tons of study video's and all of them always talk about the New Testament books when talking about Jesus. and now understand why Jews don't think Jesus was a god. I also don't understand why anyone would believe they can eat anything they want animal wise. The LAW is the law, Just because God made all animals and it was good, doesn't mean you can eat them, as I see it. I do agree that It makes perfect sense to send his only son to slaughter, to atone for our sins. But there're is no mention of a son to be born in Torah that I saw, I hear others talking about mention of a Prophet to come, But that's hardly a son of God, who will be a god, to worship. statement. There're is also this Trinity that Isn't mentioned anywhere. Again I need to get past this to continue, I have believed in Jesus my whole life, Still do, but obviously , I missed something, Help Please
Rick, As a child growing up I started with Genesis and got bogged down and closed the Book for 20 years. I made a mess of my life and ended up in a good Bible-believing church at 26 where I heard the Bible preached for the first time with power and authority. In conjunction with the truth of God's word (which I accepted), I learned about Jesus Christ who he is and what he did for me, for all of us. The Holy Ghost confirmed the preacher's words (which were not his words, but God's word) and convicted me of my lost, sinful, hell-bound state. It took three months, but I finally came to the place where I personally believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and called on him in faith. The transaction that took place that day is called the new birth (Ye must be born again ( John 3)). God entered into my life that day and I've never been the same since. I am a new creature in Christ Jesus.
If you just take one or a few books of the Bible and try to make sense of the Bible, you will never be able to. You will never be able to come to a full understanding of God or his plan for this world or mankind as it takes all 66 books in concert to truly get a grasp on God's plan, and even then, there are a lot of questions left unanswered about what lies ahead for the redeemed of God other than it will be good as sin and suffering will be eliminated.
So to say I can't move forward, or I won't believe, you will end up as I did as a child. Lost, undone, and ignorant of God.
Some say the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. The Bible is not just a collection of arbitrary books, but God's word to man ( 2 Peter 1:21) and you have to accept that.
Consider some of these verses. I can't give you what has taken 26 years to learn in 2K characters, LOL.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.Jesus was in Gods mind before God even created the world. Jesus also mentioned in Gen 3:15. The seed of the women. So Jesus was before Abraham.
The seed was promised to Abraham. Consider Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.Was this a physical Glory or one when God was well aware of what Jesus would do?
This is a matter of interpretation. This in itself does not prove your point.
You talked about God sending out his Spirit. That is exactly what he did. It came down from heaven onto Jesus in the form of a dove. Indicting what type of ministry he would have.
You who have seen me have seen the father.
The word made flesh was the spirit of God in our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus never said he was God.
But as you said he was a perfect manifestation of our Heavenly Father.
A manifestation is not the exact same of what it is manifesting.
There have been a lot of scriptures you and others have said prove Jesus is God.
I'II make a list and go through them one at a time to show why I don't believe they are saying what you say they are saying.
Jim ...Jesus was inpling that he was God when he says a Sower went forth to sow his seed which was the living WORD
And to whom the Word came it made them Gods....Jesus cd not propagate very God with his seed if he were not God
Simply b/c God almighty said that everything has to Multiply after is kind....( Spirit ) As jesus said that which is born
of the spirit is spirit which is the H.G....That Child of PROMISE....Remember that great Promise was multiplication of
Christ seed...the living WORD the seed of the Sower...Being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of
God.....Jim you are not realizing that only God cd go forth and sow that heavenly seed which is the living WORD...We
cannot sow that heavenly seed unless Christ has been born in us....The son of man...Mankinds fruit unto God...
Thats y i keep telling ya about an Israel of God...which is an Order of Gods that is gonna be born in humanity via the
seed of Christ....ya gota realize he multiplies after the God kind..Spirits the H.G.. PLURAL....When he breathe on them
he was propagating very God....Thats y he said receive the H.G.....Thus he is truly the FATHER of the H.G....And thats
y Isaiah refers to him as everylasting Father.....Simply b/c he is able to propagate after the God kind...Spirits....And our
Lord refers to this as a spiritual Pregnancy.....When a woman is in travail she has sorrows...but after the Child comes
her sorrows are turned into Joy....The Child being the H.G. The Child of Promise....The multiplication of Christ in
humanity....US SINNERS......Unto us a Child is born unto us a Son is given.....But Jesus said that these things are hid
from the wise and prudent but revealed unto Babes....Which are Baby SPIRITS...the H.G. that is gonna be as the stars of heaven.....As the kingdom of HEAVEN is gonna be within us.
The Scriptures do not say that Jesus did not have the Spirit prior to his baptism or that he received the Spirit At his baptism anymore than it says he received The Father.
He was 30 years old at this time. How did he keep from sinning all this years prior to
His baptism. Hebrews said that in Jesus, all the Godhead dwelled on him bodily.
Jesus is a human since conception. But he is also Hod the Son from all eternity, One with the Father and the Son.
I realize you most likely will stick with your view , but I know there are others reading, so it is for everyone reading that I present what is considered orthodox teaching from the witness of the church through the centuries when I address such doctrinal matters because I believe that these orthodox teachings are true and have been attested to as true by most Christians throughout the history of the church because they are supported Scripturally.
Hi All in Jesus Holy Name. I love all Jesus believers on this earth. And what a joyous sight it will be.
And sorry for the late reply. Also sorry that there are a few hours between us in inertia. Because we do not live on the same contingent. 1 Thessalonians Chapter 5.
Hope you all will read what I share with you. Because I do not want to use the Bible to beat you down at all. We are all siblings of grace. But I think it's very important to share the word with me. Same for me how it "beats". If it's for repentance, it's just Good :).
Jesus is the Son of God, he is the Son because he was born. The body of sin He had to live in is the same as we have. With all needs. The sacrifice Jesus had to make to save us and those who have gone astray. Is what Jesus did as the one true and righteous Sacrifice to God once and for all.
So here He fulfilled the law God had written, at the same time He saved us.
Now it is the case that I am not a stubborn and principled person. It may seem so since we have different perceptions of the Word itself. God Is the same. But I bend my head and am ready to wash their feet if it proves anything.
It's exciting to get emails from all of you believers. And I know that God in Jesus by the Holy Ghost is with you. We will be refined and shaped, you know. To that day comes when He has decided.
May we all live up to the Sanctification that Jesus wants us to have. And do not look at each other as losers of different opinions.
Never forget that Jesus said: John 14.2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. Amen
TRINITY equals GODHEAD__IT MEANS THREE - In Reply - 2 years ago
The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.
Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7
Isaiah 6:8
Romans 1:20
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:27-30
1 John 5:7
John 10:30
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"
Genesis 1:1
The Father purposes
The Word (Jesus) speaks. ( John 1:1)
The Spirit (Holy Spirit) executes the spoken word. Action.
All working together. Jesus came to show us the Father, as Emmanuel.
Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US. [Jesus]
1 Corinthians 12:1-31 explains all the gifts, titled, administrations that God gives to the Church that Jesus has planted on earth Now.
Those that He calls, he anoints for the work. Luke 4:18. The Bible says the gifts and callings are without revocation. If we try to operate without the Holy Spirits anointing; we will not bear good fruit. Can even become apostate.
It's not something to treat carelessly. The Head of the Church is Jesus Christ. All parts of the Body are connected to Jesus.
I looked at this list of passages that you say prove the trinity.
There is no proof of the trinity in these passages.
Some of the verses have nothing to do with our Lord.
The most interesting one is acts 17:30
If you had kept reading (verse 31) It is talking about a man.
The Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Jesus was exalted by God. If he was exalted it must mean he was lower in position.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Again a man approved of God.
God did these miracle through Jesus. Jesus is described as a man.
Hi Jim, the Bible says Jesus is God in John 1:1. It clearly says the Word is God and in John 1:14-18 it clearly says who the Word is also says the name Jesus Christ. Even if someone ignored all the other verses in the Bible about Jesus being God and only chose this one instance, it would be pretty hard to refute. Truth isn't complicated. The Bible says the Word is Jesus and the Word is God.
There are verses saying Jesus was a man, because he WAS a man temporarily. Jesus has always been and made all things as it says in John 1:3.
Have you prayed and asked God if posting your denial of Jesus's divinity in a public place is something He wants you to do? Has He placed any feelings in your heart about this?
Indeed Jim. Jesus was known as both the Son of God & the Son of Man - He definitely was a Man in every respect, bar the sin nature.
You wrote: "Jesus was exalted by God. If he was exalted it must mean he was lower in position." And again, yes, He was found in that lower position as a man, which Hebrews 2:9 speaks of: "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." And in His Coming, "HE TOOK NOT ON HIM the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham." (v16). Why should it be said of Him that He should take on man's flesh (seed of Abraham), when the possibility was there that He take on the nature "like unto the angels"? Apart from the obvious fact that He needed to become a Man for being the sacrifice for our sins, the other matter that is evident in that verse, is that He had the Power to assume any substance or material He wished. So Who then is this Man Jesus? Is He not the One Who also said, "Before Abraham was (or, existed), I am" ( John 8:58)? And He also said, "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE before the world was." ( John 17:5).
The question therefore remains: where was Jesus before He became a Man & before He "MADE HIMSELF of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." ( Philippians 2:8,9)? If He only began life as a Man of God/God's Appointed, how do we answer these other Scriptures that speak of another Life before His Birth? And His clear claims to a pre-existence in Heaven? Can we force another meaning to any of them?
The bible says first the physical and then the spiritual. You are saying first the spiritual and then the physical. I'm sorry but you have it backwards. Jesus is first mentioned in Genesis 3:15. He was in Gods mind right from the beginning. In the exodus it is said the rock 1 Corinthians 10:4 that followed them. It says spiritual rock which means the rock symbolized Christ. Jesus Christ was in Gods mind right from the beginning. He was not an actual being until his birth about two thousand years ago.
It says Jesus was conceived in the womb. Luke 2:21. Conception is when two seeds are joined together. Jesus started life as a baby and grew from there.
At Jesus resurrection what did Jesus say to Mary?
John 20:17 I ascent to my Father and your Father and to my God and to your God.
THE PLAN OF THE GODHEAD through history - In Reply - 2 years ago
Jesus was the son of God before Genesis. From Genesis 1 to Luke 1, mankind waited for Jesus's Genealogy to be fulfilled. Each ancestor was chosen. Hundreds of prophesies were fulfilled.you can read every one of them on Google. Prophesy made and when each one was fulfilled.
The odds of all that being fulfilled by one person is 'infinity to one'. Same thing with New Testament prophesies that Jesus fulfilled. Look for the charts.
Adam had Dominion; which he could have used in the garden to order satan off this earth and into outer darkness forever. But he chose to follow Eve.
Then Genesis 3:15 was in force. On a future day the Son of God became the Son of Man. Mary and Joseph were the ones chosen because of the BLOODLINE of Jesus. By conception he became HUMAN like Adam and Eve, like us. His name: Immanuel: "God With Us." [which coincidentally clearly says Jesus is God; part of the GODHEAD]
Romans 1
Why all of this we may ask? Satan is a created being; an angel. By deception he Stole the Dominion over the earth. He has no human body.
He is illegal on this earth. Isaiah 14 tells us what he looks like. He has no legal right or any power over a practicing Christian. Jesus gave us power and authority to bind and loose; IN HIS NAME.
At the Cross When Jesus shed his blood and died for all mankind. John 3:13-21. Also, the prophesy of Genesis 3:15 was fulfilled. While his body was in the tomb, Jesus went down to hell, preached salvation to the prisoners of Satan; and Jesus took back the keys to death, hell and the grave.
Jesus's bled out on the cross, upon the Earth. His blood and all the humans. He took back everything Satan stole. If we don't rightly divide the Word of Truth and act on it; we will suffer demonic attacks and our loved ones.
Re-read the Bible and SEE the plan of God at work, throughout 1000's of years. Read Job 1. We're living in the days of Noah (Christians) and Jonah (Nineveh society). EVANGELIZE!!!!
Dear Mishael Thank you very much for the kind words. They went straight to the heart! And I know it's true. God bless you and yours in Jesus' Holy Name.
ps. my own little testimony: People around change, and no longer walk the path that leads to the abyss. And it is none of us but God Himself that changes hearts in this time. Love u in Christ. All glory to Jesus. We never become discouraged in Jesus.
I can't disagree with what you've written Jim, particularly those individual quotes from Scripture. For truly Jesus' coming was in God's Mind at that earliest time in the first man & woman's lives. He was symbolically the spiritual Rock that supplied life-giving water to Israel, as He is also the Giver of that Living Water to all who believe. And He did become the Man Jesus at His Birth as He could also say that He would ascend to His Father & your (Mary's) Father.
The problem becomes evident when we rest only on those individual Scriptures & not look at all the Scriptures that speak of Him. I realize that you did, a few days ago, give your understanding of John 1:1-14, which I can't locate again. How then do you view John 8:58, John 17:5, or even Colossians 1:14-17, to name a few? What you write to us, we can readily agree to, but it's the Scriptures that are not taken into account, that makes understanding a difficult doctrine, one-sided. If these 'other' Scriptures were not given to us, then truly we must believe that Christ came into Being at His Conception in Mary. The examples of verses I've given above would be very difficult to read in any other way than given. Here are Truths that we can't avoid - they, together with His coming as a Man, must fit together so that we can properly understand Who this Jesus is (at least as much as is revealed to us).
Chris explained about Jesus' pre-existence prior to conception well. If He did not exist before conception how could he decide to take on humanity as the verses Chris cited state.
It is my understanding from your posts that you are firm in your viewpoint as are those of us who believe what Scripture says about Jesus choosing to become man for our sake. He did not lose his deity when he became man. He added humanity to Himself in order to fulfil all that was necessary for our salvation. This plan of God being the Savior was decided within the Godhead before creation, announced by God and the prophets, stated by Jesus and the epistle writers, and believed in the church throughout the centuries. Within the Trinity, the Son (Word) became flesh and was conceived in Mary to live a perfectly sinless life and die for our sins. Jesus is absolutely unique in that, though fully human, he is also fully God and has all power and authority (only God has this. He rose from the dead as He said He would raise Himself (only God can do that), He forgave people's sins (only God can do that). He said He will judge all humans(only God can do that). He accepts worship (and only God deserves our worship).
I pray for you in this matter and hope that others reading will consider what has been said here.
Reading the Bible as a Believer in 2022 - In Reply - 2 years ago
You'd be encouraged in studies by looking through the Link on the Red page: BECOME A BELIEVER.
It answers a lot of questions.
Personally, I think we are followers of Christ and from my personal experience,
Start studying in the New Testament. Follow Jesus through the Gospels: Matthew, Mark , Luke, John. 1-2-3 John (in front of Revelation)
I hope you got a red letter edition Bible, because Jesus speaks to people after the resurrection in the Book of Acts.
Some passages need to be read slower to scoop up facts.
Genesis can wait a while. Jesus is returning soon (according to signs). Matthew 24 and Luke 21,
2 Peter 3. It's not global warming. It's the earth preparing to be cleansed.
Man cannot fix what's wrong with earth. Common, lucid sense would tell us that.
For example, the Mideast (and other nations) is very dry and hot; not enough rain. So MAN is using HARRP Weather seeding technology to make it rain more. Hence, many of those countries are being destroyed by floods, all kinds of weather disasters. Proof is on YouTube and Google the stories about HARRP technology. Let's be informed and equipped with tornado lockers.
Let's be real__crazy people are running save the planet programs, and scripture says God is going to CLEANSE THE EARTH, back to Genesis/Eden.
We get to see all that happen. It's written__it will happen. Have faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Don't build your house in the middle of forests, the beach, or volcanos, active earthquake areas, or tornado alleys.
May the Holy Spirit give us wisdom in this last chapter of "Satans earth projects."
Go to a church that talks about this stuff. As Joseph did when Egypt was facing 3 1/2 years of famine (in the Bible), store some food and water; maybe rent a storage unit? I'm thinking being prepared for anything is better than last minute mobs at the grocery stores.
And if we are raptured out of here, our left behind friends and family can use that stored food.
I agree, no matter where you are in your Christ walk, reading of His life in the gospels is always wise. He is the author and finisher of it faith (Heb.12:2)
He is our Lord and our God
( John 20:28) He is the Resurrection and the Life ( John 11:25) He is the brightness of God's glory and the express image of God's Person ( Hebrews 1:3) he is worshipped by all the angels
( Hebrews 1:6) He is our Great God and Savior ( Titus 2:13-14) He is King of kings and Lord Of lords ( Rev. 19:16)
And so much more. Therefore should we not have great interest and earnest desire to read of His life, words and actions from the Gospels often?
For me, I love all sections of the Bible, but lovebtheGspels the most. It is here in the Gospels that I intake the truth of my Savior and become familiar with Him as the One I worship, adore, follow, serve, and hold out to others to come to know by faith.
It is Jesus that we should know the most about. We should be thoroughly familiar with His life in the Gospels so that we can better understand the teachings about Hom in the Epistles, Revelation, and OT. This is why I always suggest that people wishing to know the Bible better begin with the Gospels.
you are right. The old testament is still important.
Consider Acts 17
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
When these people searched the scriptures daily. Was it the old or new testament they searched.
It was the old. The new hadn't been written yet or it was being written. They wouldn't have accepted new writings.
Understanding Genesis is extremely important to understand the rest of the bible.
You said "Understanding Genesis is extremely important to understand the rest of the bible." From all of the replies I have gotten I want to start from the beginning, Again...I missed the 1st verse,
You may find what you're looking for in Genesis 1:1. In the beginning Elohim created the heaven and the earth.
Elohim is used in the plural form.
Genesis 1:26. And Elohim said, Let "US" make man in "OUR" image, after "OUR" likeness: The us and our being used here is embodied in the Elohim. They're not angels. Angels did not assist in making man but the word of God did!!
John 1:1-3. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Elohim is used throughout until you get to Genesis 3:21. Unto Adam also and to his wife did the "LORD God" make coats of skins, and clothed them.
After he made coats of skin from that day forward I believe he uses the covenant name LORD GOD "YHWH ELOHIM."
In Genesis 3:15. we come to the seed of the woman. That's a reference and title to the Lord Jesus Christ. The term itself is a contradiction Biologically and according to the Hebrew grammar. Biologically the seed is of the man. BUT JESUS WASN'T CONCEIVED BY MAN!! Jesus wasn't tied to Adam genetically. He was the 2nd Adam directly out of the bosom of the Father, meaning out of Everlasting. He's part of the Elohim.
In the Hebrew Genealogies the seed always referenced the man but Jesus Genealogy links directly to God. That's why it doesn't say seed of Adam.
In the Torah Moses referred you to him.
Deuteronomy 18:18-19.
Acts 7:37-38.
And this is how Jesus refer to himself,
Revelation 1:8. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
The word Trinity is a word that humans have created for and explain the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There is nothing to worry about to begin with really. These three are One and the same. Only in different forms.
The doctrine of Jesus Christ is most important for Jesus Christ came to abolish the law. Grace lies in the fact that no human could fulfill the law as God wanted. This is heavy study. And not for ppl who have started too read.
Therefore, Father in Heaven who is a Good Father had to send His Own Son in His place. And Jesus in turn would send the Advocate to us the Holy Ghost.
And please do not start now with the law. Since Jesus repealed the law, it is no longer in use. For all Christians on this created earth have the law in their hearts. We know when we have done something wrong, the Holy Spirit explains to us. Please read NT first and fill u with the Thru.
And follow the instructions so you can go deeper into the scriptures and study for edification and the Holy Spirit will explain all things to you.
God Bless u with understanding in His Holy Name Jesus Christ.
Matthew 5:17-18 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
Agreed Free that the law is written on our heart and the Spirit convicts us when we disobey. The fact that it is written on our hearts does not say that God's moral states have changed for God is consistent in what He seems to be morally good and morally evil. But being in Christ, we ar not blinded by the wirkd's deception of calling good evil and evil good. We now know what God deems good and evil. In love we obey His moral statutes so we can follow Christ's commands to love Gid and love others. When I am honest I am loving others, if I lie to someone, I am being unloving. If I am faithful to my husband, I am being loving, but if I am unfaithful, I am being unloving. The same is true for the rest of the 10 commandments- obeying them is loving God and loving others. Yet we are called to an even higher level of obedience, since there are everyday instances where we are faced with a loving choice in a situation and an unloving choice, and the Spirit calls us to always choose the most loving choice in any given situation.
We are urged over and over again to live godly lives. I have explained here how we do that as we walk by the Spirit and not fulfill the desires of the sinful nature which still resides in us until we put on the incorruptible.
In the Gospels, Jesus quotes the old testament many times and how in his coming the old testament is fulfilled,
in Colossians 2:14-15 Jesus is talking about blotting out the handwriting of ordinances, not the laws. Hebrews 9:11-14 explains why the ordinances are no longer necessary, because of the blood of Christ,
Rather he exemplifies the laws as in Matthew 5:18-45, 18-"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Galatians 5:14-23 "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." 22&23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith," "Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."
I agree with you. I Matthew 5-7 Jesus expounded on the commandments. He didn't expound on these commandments for us not to obey them. He taught on these so we can know God's higher moral righteousness he desires for those who follow Jesus.
While Judah was in Babylonian captivity, the Pharisees. Sadducees, Scribes, and Rabbinical order rose up, which was not proscribed by Moses. They began synogogue meetings at this time and wrote the books Tanack and Mishnah that interpreted the Torah and added religious practices on top of the Law of Moses that were binding on all Jews. Jesus came to abolish these practices along with the ceremonial ordinances and rules for community living for the Israelites. He never rescinded the moral Law of the 10 commandments. He summed them up in His two commands to love God and love others.
We do not earn our. Salvation from obeying the 10 commandments, Jesus obeyed them perfectly for us as well as always obeying His heavenly Father's will.
Paul speaks much about this, but Paul also speaks in his letters about the law of godliness he exhorts them to obey and if one researches law of godliness in Paul's letters one will find that he explains this law as moral practices he expects believers to obey by as they walk by the Spirit and not by he sinful nature.
When I read what Paul speaks about the OT law in Romans and Galatians, I have read it explained that people cannot use the law to earn right standing with God since everyone will break the law and the Law is unable to remit sin nor make us able to put to death our sinful nature. Only grace is able to do that.
My understanding is that Paul was not saying we do not have an obligation to God to obey His moral standards, but that obeying them does not earn us out salvation. However, grace has the power to put to death our sinful nature and therefore enables us to obey God's moral standards. Grace can accomplish what the law cannot: bring us salvation through faith in Jesus and the power to live an obedient lifestyle by the the Spirit who
Yes I agree completely, we cannot earn our way to God, hopefully I didn't imply that we can. what I was saying in my post was that in Matthew 5:17, Jesus fulfilled the law and prophets, and the ordinances (not the laws) were abolished on the cross, ie. circumcision, sin offerings etc. that were required, Hebrews 9:8-14 explains this
Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
Galatians 3:10-14 "But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith."
James 2:10-11 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
I'm a great sinner and thank God that Jesus is a greater Saviour. GB
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If you just take one or a few books of the Bible and try to make sense of the Bible, you will never be able to. You will never be able to come to a full understanding of God or his plan for this world or mankind as it takes all 66 books in concert to truly get a grasp on God's plan, and even then, there are a lot of questions left unanswered about what lies ahead for the redeemed of God other than it will be good as sin and suffering will be eliminated.
So to say I can't move forward, or I won't believe, you will end up as I did as a child. Lost, undone, and ignorant of God.
Some say the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. The Bible is not just a collection of arbitrary books, but God's word to man ( 2 Peter 1:21) and you have to accept that.
Consider some of these verses. I can't give you what has taken 26 years to learn in 2K characters, LOL.
GEN 1:26, 2:7, 3:15, 3:22, 11:7
PSA 12:6-7, 22
ISA 45:5-25
ZEC 12:9-10, 13:6-7
LUK 1-2
JHN 1:1-18, 3:1-36
PHL 2:5-11
Start with John and Romans and then branch out.
The seed was promised to Abraham. Consider Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.Was this a physical Glory or one when God was well aware of what Jesus would do?
This is a matter of interpretation. This in itself does not prove your point.
Thanks
You who have seen me have seen the father.
The word made flesh was the spirit of God in our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus never said he was God.
But as you said he was a perfect manifestation of our Heavenly Father.
A manifestation is not the exact same of what it is manifesting.
There have been a lot of scriptures you and others have said prove Jesus is God.
I'II make a list and go through them one at a time to show why I don't believe they are saying what you say they are saying.
Thanks
And to whom the Word came it made them Gods....Jesus cd not propagate very God with his seed if he were not God
Simply b/c God almighty said that everything has to Multiply after is kind....( Spirit ) As jesus said that which is born
of the spirit is spirit which is the H.G....That Child of PROMISE....Remember that great Promise was multiplication of
Christ seed...the living WORD the seed of the Sower...Being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of
God.....Jim you are not realizing that only God cd go forth and sow that heavenly seed which is the living WORD...We
cannot sow that heavenly seed unless Christ has been born in us....The son of man...Mankinds fruit unto God...
Thats y i keep telling ya about an Israel of God...which is an Order of Gods that is gonna be born in humanity via the
seed of Christ....ya gota realize he multiplies after the God kind..Spirits the H.G.. PLURAL....When he breathe on them
he was propagating very God....Thats y he said receive the H.G.....Thus he is truly the FATHER of the H.G....And thats
y Isaiah refers to him as everylasting Father.....Simply b/c he is able to propagate after the God kind...Spirits....And our
Lord refers to this as a spiritual Pregnancy.....When a woman is in travail she has sorrows...but after the Child comes
her sorrows are turned into Joy....The Child being the H.G. The Child of Promise....The multiplication of Christ in
humanity....US SINNERS......Unto us a Child is born unto us a Son is given.....But Jesus said that these things are hid
from the wise and prudent but revealed unto Babes....Which are Baby SPIRITS...the H.G. that is gonna be as the stars of heaven.....As the kingdom of HEAVEN is gonna be within us.
The Scriptures do not say that Jesus did not have the Spirit prior to his baptism or that he received the Spirit At his baptism anymore than it says he received The Father.
He was 30 years old at this time. How did he keep from sinning all this years prior to
His baptism. Hebrews said that in Jesus, all the Godhead dwelled on him bodily.
Jesus is a human since conception. But he is also Hod the Son from all eternity, One with the Father and the Son.
I realize you most likely will stick with your view , but I know there are others reading, so it is for everyone reading that I present what is considered orthodox teaching from the witness of the church through the centuries when I address such doctrinal matters because I believe that these orthodox teachings are true and have been attested to as true by most Christians throughout the history of the church because they are supported Scripturally.
You are doing the same thing that you say I am doing.
Thanks
And sorry for the late reply. Also sorry that there are a few hours between us in inertia. Because we do not live on the same contingent. 1 Thessalonians Chapter 5.
Hope you all will read what I share with you. Because I do not want to use the Bible to beat you down at all. We are all siblings of grace. But I think it's very important to share the word with me. Same for me how it "beats". If it's for repentance, it's just Good :).
Jesus is the Son of God, he is the Son because he was born. The body of sin He had to live in is the same as we have. With all needs. The sacrifice Jesus had to make to save us and those who have gone astray. Is what Jesus did as the one true and righteous Sacrifice to God once and for all.
So here He fulfilled the law God had written, at the same time He saved us.
Now it is the case that I am not a stubborn and principled person. It may seem so since we have different perceptions of the Word itself. God Is the same. But I bend my head and am ready to wash their feet if it proves anything.
It's exciting to get emails from all of you believers. And I know that God in Jesus by the Holy Ghost is with you. We will be refined and shaped, you know. To that day comes when He has decided.
May we all live up to the Sanctification that Jesus wants us to have. And do not look at each other as losers of different opinions.
Never forget that Jesus said: John 14.2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. Amen
Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7
Isaiah 6:8
Romans 1:20
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:27-30
1 John 5:7
John 10:30
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD so that they are without excuse:"
Genesis 1:1
The Father purposes
The Word (Jesus) speaks. ( John 1:1)
The Spirit (Holy Spirit) executes the spoken word. Action.
All working together. Jesus came to show us the Father, as Emmanuel.
Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US. [Jesus]
1 Corinthians 12:1-31 explains all the gifts, titled, administrations that God gives to the Church that Jesus has planted on earth Now.
Those that He calls, he anoints for the work. Luke 4:18. The Bible says the gifts and callings are without revocation. If we try to operate without the Holy Spirits anointing; we will not bear good fruit. Can even become apostate.
It's not something to treat carelessly. The Head of the Church is Jesus Christ. All parts of the Body are connected to Jesus.
There is no proof of the trinity in these passages.
Some of the verses have nothing to do with our Lord.
The most interesting one is acts 17:30
If you had kept reading (verse 31) It is talking about a man.
The Lord Jesus Christ.
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Jesus was exalted by God. If he was exalted it must mean he was lower in position.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Again a man approved of God.
God did these miracle through Jesus. Jesus is described as a man.
There are verses saying Jesus was a man, because he WAS a man temporarily. Jesus has always been and made all things as it says in John 1:3.
Have you prayed and asked God if posting your denial of Jesus's divinity in a public place is something He wants you to do? Has He placed any feelings in your heart about this?
for all of creation because since that time all creation travails in pain until the day of redemption, deliverance and
end of all sin and strife.
You wrote: "Jesus was exalted by God. If he was exalted it must mean he was lower in position." And again, yes, He was found in that lower position as a man, which Hebrews 2:9 speaks of: "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man." And in His Coming, "HE TOOK NOT ON HIM the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham." (v16). Why should it be said of Him that He should take on man's flesh (seed of Abraham), when the possibility was there that He take on the nature "like unto the angels"? Apart from the obvious fact that He needed to become a Man for being the sacrifice for our sins, the other matter that is evident in that verse, is that He had the Power to assume any substance or material He wished. So Who then is this Man Jesus? Is He not the One Who also said, "Before Abraham was (or, existed), I am" ( John 8:58)? And He also said, "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE before the world was." ( John 17:5).
The question therefore remains: where was Jesus before He became a Man & before He "MADE HIMSELF of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." ( Philippians 2:8,9)? If He only began life as a Man of God/God's Appointed, how do we answer these other Scriptures that speak of another Life before His Birth? And His clear claims to a pre-existence in Heaven? Can we force another meaning to any of them?
The bible says first the physical and then the spiritual. You are saying first the spiritual and then the physical. I'm sorry but you have it backwards. Jesus is first mentioned in Genesis 3:15. He was in Gods mind right from the beginning. In the exodus it is said the rock 1 Corinthians 10:4 that followed them. It says spiritual rock which means the rock symbolized Christ. Jesus Christ was in Gods mind right from the beginning. He was not an actual being until his birth about two thousand years ago.
It says Jesus was conceived in the womb. Luke 2:21. Conception is when two seeds are joined together. Jesus started life as a baby and grew from there.
At Jesus resurrection what did Jesus say to Mary?
John 20:17 I ascent to my Father and your Father and to my God and to your God.
Thanks
The odds of all that being fulfilled by one person is 'infinity to one'. Same thing with New Testament prophesies that Jesus fulfilled. Look for the charts.
Adam had Dominion; which he could have used in the garden to order satan off this earth and into outer darkness forever. But he chose to follow Eve.
Then Genesis 3:15 was in force. On a future day the Son of God became the Son of Man. Mary and Joseph were the ones chosen because of the BLOODLINE of Jesus. By conception he became HUMAN like Adam and Eve, like us. His name: Immanuel: "God With Us." [which coincidentally clearly says Jesus is God; part of the GODHEAD]
Romans 1
Why all of this we may ask? Satan is a created being; an angel. By deception he Stole the Dominion over the earth. He has no human body.
He is illegal on this earth. Isaiah 14 tells us what he looks like. He has no legal right or any power over a practicing Christian. Jesus gave us power and authority to bind and loose; IN HIS NAME.
At the Cross When Jesus shed his blood and died for all mankind. John 3:13-21. Also, the prophesy of Genesis 3:15 was fulfilled. While his body was in the tomb, Jesus went down to hell, preached salvation to the prisoners of Satan; and Jesus took back the keys to death, hell and the grave.
Jesus's bled out on the cross, upon the Earth. His blood and all the humans. He took back everything Satan stole. If we don't rightly divide the Word of Truth and act on it; we will suffer demonic attacks and our loved ones.
Re-read the Bible and SEE the plan of God at work, throughout 1000's of years. Read Job 1. We're living in the days of Noah (Christians) and Jonah (Nineveh society). EVANGELIZE!!!!
Mishael
ps. my own little testimony: People around change, and no longer walk the path that leads to the abyss. And it is none of us but God Himself that changes hearts in this time. Love u in Christ. All glory to Jesus. We never become discouraged in Jesus.
Luke 6 12-49
The problem becomes evident when we rest only on those individual Scriptures & not look at all the Scriptures that speak of Him. I realize that you did, a few days ago, give your understanding of John 1:1-14, which I can't locate again. How then do you view John 8:58, John 17:5, or even Colossians 1:14-17, to name a few? What you write to us, we can readily agree to, but it's the Scriptures that are not taken into account, that makes understanding a difficult doctrine, one-sided. If these 'other' Scriptures were not given to us, then truly we must believe that Christ came into Being at His Conception in Mary. The examples of verses I've given above would be very difficult to read in any other way than given. Here are Truths that we can't avoid - they, together with His coming as a Man, must fit together so that we can properly understand Who this Jesus is (at least as much as is revealed to us).
Chris explained about Jesus' pre-existence prior to conception well. If He did not exist before conception how could he decide to take on humanity as the verses Chris cited state.
It is my understanding from your posts that you are firm in your viewpoint as are those of us who believe what Scripture says about Jesus choosing to become man for our sake. He did not lose his deity when he became man. He added humanity to Himself in order to fulfil all that was necessary for our salvation. This plan of God being the Savior was decided within the Godhead before creation, announced by God and the prophets, stated by Jesus and the epistle writers, and believed in the church throughout the centuries. Within the Trinity, the Son (Word) became flesh and was conceived in Mary to live a perfectly sinless life and die for our sins. Jesus is absolutely unique in that, though fully human, he is also fully God and has all power and authority (only God has this. He rose from the dead as He said He would raise Himself (only God can do that), He forgave people's sins (only God can do that). He said He will judge all humans(only God can do that). He accepts worship (and only God deserves our worship).
I pray for you in this matter and hope that others reading will consider what has been said here.
It answers a lot of questions.
Personally, I think we are followers of Christ and from my personal experience,
Start studying in the New Testament. Follow Jesus through the Gospels: Matthew, Mark , Luke, John. 1-2-3 John (in front of Revelation)
I hope you got a red letter edition Bible, because Jesus speaks to people after the resurrection in the Book of Acts.
Some passages need to be read slower to scoop up facts.
Genesis can wait a while. Jesus is returning soon (according to signs). Matthew 24 and Luke 21,
2 Peter 3. It's not global warming. It's the earth preparing to be cleansed.
Man cannot fix what's wrong with earth. Common, lucid sense would tell us that.
For example, the Mideast (and other nations) is very dry and hot; not enough rain. So MAN is using HARRP Weather seeding technology to make it rain more. Hence, many of those countries are being destroyed by floods, all kinds of weather disasters. Proof is on YouTube and Google the stories about HARRP technology. Let's be informed and equipped with tornado lockers.
Let's be real__crazy people are running save the planet programs, and scripture says God is going to CLEANSE THE EARTH, back to Genesis/Eden.
We get to see all that happen. It's written__it will happen. Have faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Don't build your house in the middle of forests, the beach, or volcanos, active earthquake areas, or tornado alleys.
May the Holy Spirit give us wisdom in this last chapter of "Satans earth projects."
Go to a church that talks about this stuff. As Joseph did when Egypt was facing 3 1/2 years of famine (in the Bible), store some food and water; maybe rent a storage unit? I'm thinking being prepared for anything is better than last minute mobs at the grocery stores.
And if we are raptured out of here, our left behind friends and family can use that stored food.
He is our Lord and our God
( John 20:28) He is the Resurrection and the Life ( John 11:25) He is the brightness of God's glory and the express image of God's Person ( Hebrews 1:3) he is worshipped by all the angels
( Hebrews 1:6) He is our Great God and Savior ( Titus 2:13-14) He is King of kings and Lord Of lords ( Rev. 19:16)
And so much more. Therefore should we not have great interest and earnest desire to read of His life, words and actions from the Gospels often?
For me, I love all sections of the Bible, but lovebtheGspels the most. It is here in the Gospels that I intake the truth of my Savior and become familiar with Him as the One I worship, adore, follow, serve, and hold out to others to come to know by faith.
It is Jesus that we should know the most about. We should be thoroughly familiar with His life in the Gospels so that we can better understand the teachings about Hom in the Epistles, Revelation, and OT. This is why I always suggest that people wishing to know the Bible better begin with the Gospels.
you are right. The old testament is still important.
Consider Acts 17
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
When these people searched the scriptures daily. Was it the old or new testament they searched.
It was the old. The new hadn't been written yet or it was being written. They wouldn't have accepted new writings.
Understanding Genesis is extremely important to understand the rest of the bible.
You said "Understanding Genesis is extremely important to understand the rest of the bible." From all of the replies I have gotten I want to start from the beginning, Again...I missed the 1st verse,
Elohim is used in the plural form.
Genesis 1:26. And Elohim said, Let "US" make man in "OUR" image, after "OUR" likeness: The us and our being used here is embodied in the Elohim. They're not angels. Angels did not assist in making man but the word of God did!!
John 1:1-3. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Elohim is used throughout until you get to Genesis 3:21. Unto Adam also and to his wife did the "LORD God" make coats of skins, and clothed them.
After he made coats of skin from that day forward I believe he uses the covenant name LORD GOD "YHWH ELOHIM."
In Genesis 3:15. we come to the seed of the woman. That's a reference and title to the Lord Jesus Christ. The term itself is a contradiction Biologically and according to the Hebrew grammar. Biologically the seed is of the man. BUT JESUS WASN'T CONCEIVED BY MAN!! Jesus wasn't tied to Adam genetically. He was the 2nd Adam directly out of the bosom of the Father, meaning out of Everlasting. He's part of the Elohim.
In the Hebrew Genealogies the seed always referenced the man but Jesus Genealogy links directly to God. That's why it doesn't say seed of Adam.
In the Torah Moses referred you to him.
Deuteronomy 18:18-19.
Acts 7:37-38.
And this is how Jesus refer to himself,
Revelation 1:8. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
As Moses said, "Like unto me, Hear you him.
God bless.
God bless.
THANK YOU FOR THAT !!! That's what I was looking for and the very 1st sentence, I have NEVER heard this before, somehow.
God bless.
The word Trinity is a word that humans have created for and explain the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There is nothing to worry about to begin with really. These three are One and the same. Only in different forms.
The doctrine of Jesus Christ is most important for Jesus Christ came to abolish the law. Grace lies in the fact that no human could fulfill the law as God wanted. This is heavy study. And not for ppl who have started too read.
Therefore, Father in Heaven who is a Good Father had to send His Own Son in His place. And Jesus in turn would send the Advocate to us the Holy Ghost.
And please do not start now with the law. Since Jesus repealed the law, it is no longer in use. For all Christians on this created earth have the law in their hearts. We know when we have done something wrong, the Holy Spirit explains to us. Please read NT first and fill u with the Thru.
And follow the instructions so you can go deeper into the scriptures and study for edification and the Holy Spirit will explain all things to you.
God Bless u with understanding in His Holy Name Jesus Christ.
We are urged over and over again to live godly lives. I have explained here how we do that as we walk by the Spirit and not fulfill the desires of the sinful nature which still resides in us until we put on the incorruptible.
It is hard doing this with my phone. But hope my ideas can be concluded despite the errors.
In the Gospels, Jesus quotes the old testament many times and how in his coming the old testament is fulfilled,
in Colossians 2:14-15 Jesus is talking about blotting out the handwriting of ordinances, not the laws. Hebrews 9:11-14 explains why the ordinances are no longer necessary, because of the blood of Christ,
Rather he exemplifies the laws as in Matthew 5:18-45, 18-"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Galatians 5:14-23 "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." 22&23 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith," "Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."
I agree with you. I Matthew 5-7 Jesus expounded on the commandments. He didn't expound on these commandments for us not to obey them. He taught on these so we can know God's higher moral righteousness he desires for those who follow Jesus.
While Judah was in Babylonian captivity, the Pharisees. Sadducees, Scribes, and Rabbinical order rose up, which was not proscribed by Moses. They began synogogue meetings at this time and wrote the books Tanack and Mishnah that interpreted the Torah and added religious practices on top of the Law of Moses that were binding on all Jews. Jesus came to abolish these practices along with the ceremonial ordinances and rules for community living for the Israelites. He never rescinded the moral Law of the 10 commandments. He summed them up in His two commands to love God and love others.
We do not earn our. Salvation from obeying the 10 commandments, Jesus obeyed them perfectly for us as well as always obeying His heavenly Father's will.
Paul speaks much about this, but Paul also speaks in his letters about the law of godliness he exhorts them to obey and if one researches law of godliness in Paul's letters one will find that he explains this law as moral practices he expects believers to obey by as they walk by the Spirit and not by he sinful nature.
Thank you. GB
Also, I meant to say Talmud instead of Tanack. I get things mixed up with some of the Hebrew name.
there is no law against because we walk in the perfect law of love agapeo by the spirit. That is by putting on
the mind of christ Gods revealed word spiritual knowledge and walking in it.
When I read what Paul speaks about the OT law in Romans and Galatians, I have read it explained that people cannot use the law to earn right standing with God since everyone will break the law and the Law is unable to remit sin nor make us able to put to death our sinful nature. Only grace is able to do that.
My understanding is that Paul was not saying we do not have an obligation to God to obey His moral standards, but that obeying them does not earn us out salvation. However, grace has the power to put to death our sinful nature and therefore enables us to obey God's moral standards. Grace can accomplish what the law cannot: bring us salvation through faith in Jesus and the power to live an obedient lifestyle by the the Spirit who
Lives in us to will and do God's will.
Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
Galatians 3:10-14 "But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith."
James 2:10-11 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
I'm a great sinner and thank God that Jesus is a greater Saviour. GB
I was responding because I agree with you.