Bible Discussion Thread

Where is your spirit when you die or as bible mention asleep?

Ron,

Many have different views on this and some defend them fiercely and interpret scripture to fit those views. This is not a salvation question so here are some things you may study for your own conscience; we all will face the death of this fleshly body and how you decide to face it is up to you. ( Psalm 6:5) ( Job 14:12-14) ( Job 17:13-16) ( Psalm 89:48) ( Psalm 115:17) ( Ecclesiastes 9:5-10)



There is a verse in ( 1 Timothy 4:7) to keep in mind, the actual Greek word used by Paul in this verse was "mythous", from which the English words myth and mythology come. In the actual Greek text of this verse, Paul further characterizes these fables as profane "bebelous". The King James Version of the Bible renders as "profane and old wives' tales".

Does scripture without man's interpretation back up a belief? ( Luke 16:19-31) is taught that we go to heaven or hell when we die. Questions to ask; What is the context of this chapter? Is this a parable or a reality? Is it backed up by other scripture or does it line up with Greek mythology?

What is our spirit? ( Psalm 104:29) ( Ecclesiastes 12:7) ( James 2:26). Spirit meaning wind, breath, spirit. When are we absent from our bodies? If we go to heaven when we die what is the meaning of ( 1 Corinthians 15:52-58)?

My personal understanding what scripture says is our spirit is our breath, and when we die it goes back to God who gave it, and our communication through the Holy Spirit stops until the resurrection,(sleep in Christ). And we being saved in Christ with the down payment/seal given by the Holy Spirit will be raised incorruptible in our new body and then we are absent from this fleshly body. But it is what you decide.

God bless.

RLW

Hi Ron Scripturally this is what I gather Gen. 1: 26+27 let us make man In our the Image or likeness. In the Gospel of John 4:24 Jesus Christ said God is Spirit so Genesis 1:27 God gave man Spirit so he could communicate with man. In ch 2:7 The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul. That being shown when a born again person falls asleep in Christ His holy Spirit goes back to God he takes his last breath soul life and body goes back to dust. The part of man that died in genesis he lost His Spiritual connection, big time not good, bought back by Jesus Christ. Made available again day of pentecost to be born again of Gods Spirit by what Jesus Christ accomplished. All other inputs welcome.

Hi Ron This is my understanding scripturally of what you were sharing Genesis 1 God Created man in His own Image In the Gospel of John 4:24 Jesus Christ said God Is Spirit a spirit has no form it is Spirit Gen. 2:7 lord formed man dust of the ground and breathed into His nostrils breath of life and man became a living soul, soul life is breath life. In Genesis man did not die physically but he lost his spiritual connection with God because he disobeyed. When Jesus Christ paid the price for mans redemption it became available Day oif Pentecost to receive the spiritual connection that was lost Holy Spirit or Pneuma Hagion we received that which was lost in Genesis. When we fall asleep in Christ the spirit goes back to where it came from you take your last breath soul life and your body goes to dust of the ground. Now in the old testament many times to communicate to men God had to make himself known in the five senses to communicate at first Moses burning bush, staff that turned to a snake attention getters, they had Gods spirit upon them but not in them, that's why David in psalms said to God take not thy Holy Spirit from me. Remember Jesus Christ said those who have seen me have seen the father five senses the Disciples didn't get it tell after Pentecost. I realize there are other ideas on this, scripturally this is my understanding. All other inputs gladly accepted.

2nd Corinthians chapter 5 , vs's. 5 -6 & 7 ,.. absent from this body ( flesh ) is to be present with the Lord

Hi Glenn,

Have you ever played the telephone game where a message keeps being repeated until it becomes something else? Then people believe the something else so strongly they don't even believe you when you tell them the original message.

I think the phrase absent from body, present with the Lord is a good example of that. Because if you actually read the verse, Paul did not say what people assume he said.

Paul in 2 Cor 5:8 says he would "rather" be "absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." He simply stated his preference.

Let's then ask:

Did Paul truly say that in 100% of all cases of people dying they will instantly be with the Lord in heaven?

I certainly didn't interpret that from what Paul said, but yet, people do repeat this regularly. Being with the Lord doesn't automatically mean being in heaven either. Also, to believe this you have to ignore the other verses that say there's a rapture and dead will rise when Jesus comes and that we will sleep and await Jesus. Not only that, but that ignores judgment day and scripture says we will all face judgment after Jesus returns. It says all will face judgment before God. To believe that some will skip judgment and go straight to heaven is to ignore scripture. Not only that, but is it logical that people would instantly go to heaven or hell, then be there a while and to fulfill scripture, come BACK to earth BACK in the grave, just so the dead will rise and meet Jesus in the air? The evidence of all the scripture weighs heavily on one side and is very light on the other, requiring twisting scripture a bit.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 explains what will happen when we die quite clearly. Earthly death = sleep. I don't hear this verse mentioned near as much though for some reason. God bless...

Precious friend, Adam, said: "I think the phrase absent from body, present with the Lord is a good example of that [telephone game]. Because if you actually read the verse, Paul did not say what people assume he said."

Of course, The Scriptures Actually Say:

"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, AND to be present With The LORD." ( 2 Corinthians 5:8). Who wouldn't WITH "Paul's CONFIDENCE, "RATHER Be WITH CHRIST"?

Is there really "soul sleep, UNconsciousness," or, as some extremists think, "annihilation" ["ssua"] when "we are absent from the body."? We Must prayerfully "compare spiritual With spiritual, With The Blessed Holy Spirit As TEACHER" ( 1 Corinthians 2:13), for the Full Picture = "What SAITH All The Scriptures" in this doctrine?:

(1a) In heaven, John says: "I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for The Word Of God" ( Revelation 6:9)

(1b) "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O LORD, Holy and True, dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" ( Revelation 6:10) = NO "ssua" here, Correct?

(2) So, what about the "members of the Body Of CHRIST, Today, who depart from the body, in death"? Why are they not "With CHRIST, In Heaven," as Paul states?:

a) "For to me to live is Christ, and to die IS GAIN." ( Philippians 1:21)

b) "For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and TO BE WITH CHRIST; which is FAR BETTER:" ( Philippians 1:23)

c) who Exactly, does "[CHRIST] God Bring WITH HIM" At our Great GRACE Departure?:

"For if we believe that JESUS died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in JESUS Will God BRING With HIM." ( 1 Thessalonians 4:14)

Only One Conclusion: we depart, in death, ie: "absent from the body, AND [IMMEDIATELY Are] present With The LORD JESUS CHRIST," Correct, Adam? Thus:

"[CHRIST] WHO Died for us, That, Whether we wake OR sleep, we should LIVE TOGETHER WITH HIM!" ( 1 Thessalonians 5:10)

Please be Richly Encouraged And Edified!!

Hi Adam , as of right now , the story of lazeris an the rich man tell us there's 2 sides of heaven, one for the good , one for the not so good ! Separated by a gulf , that no one can cross ,.. rapture ? Besides being a hit song in the 80's by Blonde , Ezekiel chapter 13 , warns us how God is angered by those who teach to fly to save there souls , an that Thessalonians 1 chapter 4 , is a message on , upon Jesus's next return, at that coming we all change back , into our original spiritual body's, an the reason we can say , as long as you are in the flesh, the real Jesus, is not here. ,..

peace be with you

Glenn

Ron,

Your spirit departs your body when you die. In some places, the bible uses the word sleep for death. In John Chapter 11, Lazarus had died and Jesus said that Lazarus was sleeping. The disciples thought that Jesus had spoken of just resting, taking a nap, sleeping.

And by the way, this is where some groups get the idea that Christians when they die, they are in a state of what is called "soul sleep." But Paul says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. But there are groups that believe that you sleep, your soul sleeps. Jesus is talking about Lazarus' death. He is not talking about sleeping.

Christians adopted the figure of sleep for death from this text right here. And of course, it was carried throughout the first stages of the New Testament church because the believers' body, when you view the body, it looks like they are sleeping. That same body will be raised up one day and changed into a spiritual body.

But the reason why they are dead, and that's what the word death means, it means separation. Their spirit has separated from their body. Their body looks like it is sleeping. But one day it will be raised up.

So sleeping is not permanent. And that's why the early church adopted the phrase. But of course, when Jesus used it, it was not familiar to them and they said "Well if he is sleeping, he's doing well, he is just taking a nap." Jesus spoke of his death but they thought he was just sleeping.