Bible Discussion Thread

Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Does that verse apply to the unsaved exclusively, or does it apply to the "saved" (but somewhat backslidden)?

I'm thoroughly confused. For years I believed in "once-saved-always-saved" but I don't any more. Neither do I believe that if someone has prayed the "sinners prayer" once, that they are always saved- either.

The verse says the fearful...unbelieving...murderers... shall have their share in the Lake of Fire.

I've never taken a life (murdered) but often I've wished death on the wicked. So much so that for weeks I felt this heaviness weighing on me. It would not go away. I was terrified. My waking thoughts were of damnable things. I asked God every day, "What is this? Why do I feel this doom and gloom?"

God gave me an answer.> In having those wicked thoughts, I caused the Holy Spirit to grieve.

I told a friend of mine what I was feeling and she told me to read Romans 8:1

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

I've read that verse many times. I was a C.I.N.O. (Christian-in-name-only) When I read my Bible, I only read the "feel good" verses. I thought that no matter what I did, Jesus had me covered. Why would Jesus keep sticking up for a habitual sinner like me?

Most of my sins are in my head: I think of doing things that I would never actually do in real life. But, you can't fool the Holy Spirit of God.

Is it too late for me? Am I doomed?

Only the wicked and unrighteous will be in the fire. You are saved if you obey all 10 commandments and believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. Look in revelation 14: 12. Paul had referred to christions in the churches he wrote to as saints.

Yes if someone was save they can fall if not repent they are not saved. We must repent to the Lord. Only the lord knows what is in people's hearts. Look at 1 samual 16:7.

I hope this helps my friend. God bless.

@Jeanie, Thank You.

Hi Dgjot.

Something went terribly wrong with the links i attempted to post.

Read Romans 7:23 on through Romans 8:13. with verses 11 thru 13 being the end result.

" But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also QUICKEN YOUR MORTAL BODIES BY HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLETH IN YOU.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

We all have an inward battle but that life giving spirit conducts our walk. You may grieve the spirit but our great shepherd will never leave us.

Hebrews 10:14. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

2 Timothy 1:12. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

God bless.

@S Spencer

Thanks again.

Hi Dgjot.

As promised I would like to elaborate a little further on your great questions.

I think we covered your 1st question, "Does that verse apply to the unsaved exclusively, or does it apply to the "saved" (but somewhat backslidden)?

You said you have wished terrible things on wicked people and Quoted I felt this heaviness weighing on me. It would not go away. I was terrified. My waking thoughts were of damnable things. I asked God every day, "What is this? Why do I feel this doom and gloom?" You seem to have a heavy heart behind those thoughts. This sounds like everyday struggle in a Christians life providing he or she is a believer regardless of the severity of the sin. Concerning the struggle it sounds like Paul in Romans 7:23-25. Link

You stated "Why would Jesus keep sticking up for a habitual sinner like me?" I don't know your spiritual condition but from what you have shared I supposed the habitual sin is the damnable thoughts you mentioned earlier.

Dgjot a habitual sinner in my opinion was never a saved person. But I'm not sure you fall in that category.

You mentioned a friend of yours told you to read Romans 8:1. And you read that verse many times. to put it into context for your situation you may have to take it from Romans 7:23-25. thru Romans 8:11.

Link

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, ( who walk NOT after the flesh,) but after the Spirit." This is done by the spirit.

Link

Link

Link

By the death and resurrection of Christ we wasn't just justified we were sanctified and being sanctified and some day be Glorified.

Revelation 21:8 has nothing to do with a believer loosing his salvation.

God bless.

Hi Dgjot.

I like to add to my reply being I don't think I covered all your concerns.

I didn't thoroughly read your post and it deserves a lot more than I given it.

My apologies.

I'm attempting to refresh your Post so some can go into greater debt.

I f not I will attempt to do so once I get home from work in a few hours

God bless.

Hi Dgjot.

Let's consider verse 7 this is one Group that did accept Christ.

Revelation 21:7.

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

These in Revelation 21:8 never accepted Christ

Revelation 21:8.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Here's a parallel.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

AND SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU: BUT YE ARE WASHED, BUT YE ARE SANCTIFIED, BUT YE ARE JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus, "AND BY THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD."

Thank You, S Spencer.

Dgjot, ask the Spirit to give you spiritual eyes instead of natural eyes.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing, THE WORDS (Christ is the WORD) that I speak unto you, they (the words, Christ) are SPIRIT, and they (the words, Christ) are LIFE.

...the fearful...unbelieving...murderers (if you hate your brother, you are a murderer ( 1 John 3:15)....

Shall have their part in the lake of fire (THE WORDS ARE CHRIST)

Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire (THE WORDS ARE CHRIST)

Colossians 1:27 ....this mystery.... CHRIST IN YOU....(living lake of fire) you are IN IT NOW.

Isaiah 10:16 ...and under his glory (you are the glory of God) he shall kindle a BURNING like the burning of a FIRE (THE WORDS ARE CHRIST).

Everyone is going to be judged in the WORDS ( in Christ, in the Fire (lake of)

The fire burns the trash and purifies you.

The fire is GOOD and necessary.

The fearful no longer fear, the unbelieving, BELIEVE, you love you enemies.

Don't call GOOD (the lake of fire), EVIL.

@Earl,

Thank You.

[Comment Removed]

Dgjot; You are HIS POSSESSION, He is not going to FAIL to bring you to the FULLNESS of HIMSELF.

He does't consider OUR worthiness; he does all this for us, because of who HE IS.

He is faithful, not us.

Be steadfast in this TRUTH.

You don't have to do anything; whatever is needed in your life to bring you to the likeness of himself, he WILL CAUSE you to DO IT.

Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD that WORKETH IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO of his good pleasure.

Ezekiel 36:27 And I WILL put my Spirit within you, and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgements, and DO THEM.

Rest in this TRUTH and life becomes really easy (even when it is hard).

Dgot Thinking negative or evil thoughts is one thing carrying it out is a whole different ball game, in 1 Corinthians 13:5 its says the love of God thinketh no evil. There is nobody that's got that mastered so don't feel like your alone, also nobody walks perfectly by the spirit 24-7. We do the best and put on Gods word in your mind believe and listen to his spirit then let go and let God. In 1 John 3: 19-21 God knows your heart, and he also knows we don't think correctly 24-7 that's why we have saviour. God wants to deliver us more than we want to accept it. Remember its all grace not works. God Bless

Thanks Dianne. I wondered if I was the only one who ever went through this kind of thing.

The question still is: have I committed Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by grieving the Holy Spirit?

I'm terrified.

Dgjot I don't believe your fear is Godly, 2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us the Spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind. The word fear is the word deilia which means timidity, we live in the age of grace that's not license to sin, in contrast in Hebrews 4: 16 Let us therefore come boldly or fearlessly no timidity unto the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. A great record of Gods love displayed through jesus christ in luke 5:4 Jesus Christ says to simon peter launch out into the deep and let down your nets for a draught. Now Simon being the fishing professional said Master we have toiled all night and taken nothing but at thy word I'll let down the net. Wait a second Didn't Jesus Christ say let down the nets plural, so did Simon do what he was told nope and yet they were blessed with fish verses 6-8 go tons of fish. When Simon saw it he fell down at Jesus knees and said depart from me for I am a sinful man lord, look how bad this guy felt.Whats the savior do your right guy your an idiot and I don't want to have nothing to do with you. Quite the opposite Never mentions the error or sin and says fear [the word fear is phobeo to cause to terrify] not from henceforth thou shalt catch men and they still got the fish. It's a matter of where's your heart not where's head the disciples questioned him all the time that doesn't make them evil. All the actions that Jesus Christ did were a blessing and it scared the ---- out of peter.If you think about we probably would have done the same thing. Just some stuff to consider. God Bless

It happens. God knows you sorrow in your heart. Read Psalm 51.

And then read 1 John 1:9. Bend your knee and pray what that chapter is saying...from your heart.

You're not the only one who this has happened to.

Main thing to follow, is Jesus; His Bible. Get more and more of that in you. Be selective of things we all watch on media.

I've had 35 years to fall in love with the Holy Spirit. He's God; 3rd person of the Godhead. Had a part in creation of this world we live in. Every relationship is a process of getting to know each other. Not all is smooth sailing at first.

Read John chapters 14-17 and learn about the Comforter. Jesus went to the Cross to bring the Holy Spirit to us. The be inside. Reverence Him.

@Mishael,

Again, Thank You.

Blasphemy would be as when Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, and all the people said he did that by the power of satan.

Or someone is healed at church and they say the same thing. Or someone speaks in tongues during praise, worship or corporate prayer.

I choose not to judge these things. We are to exercise righteous judgment. I had to learn not to judge. Whatever the Holy Spirit does is always to glorify Jesus.

You can Google

"grieve or quench the Holy Spirit, teaching"

And read the commentaries on it.

It's actually very serious and we all should look that up.

@Mishael,



Thank You. I will look that up.