Bible Discussion Thread

I really appreciate your comment Felis.
we are not saved by faith as its only a human respond, we need something more than a human respond that is why Paul clarify his writting in Eph 2 he says "for by grace ye are saved" we can only be saved by faith in Jesus Christ not faith alone,the grace is in Jesus.

This is a great problem in Christianity in the world today. Salvation is now based on a human response to God, where you come up to the altar or pray a prayer??? CAN MAN truly save himself?? This is truly the question of the hour and yet the answer is pathetically obvious.

Can a grain of sand on the bottom of the ocean floor possibly save itself?? For clearly he can not. And as human beings we have been made out of the dust of the earth and our condition is no different.

The problem is the pride of man�s heart.. all my human kind myself included there is something within us that WANTS TO DO SOMETHING TO SAVE OURSELVES!!! It is the pride of mans heart that somehow your salvation centers around yourself.

But you have a great chance of defying gravity and jumping to the moon than saving yourself. For even if I could jump 6 inches higher than any human being I would still be 100000000 miles (I don't know exactly but a likely only .00000001% of the way to the moon.) No matter how spiritual someone is.. NO MAN CAN SAVE HIMSELF AND NO MAN HAS ANY HOPE OUTSIDE OF THE MERCY OF GOD!!

As human beings we don't understand the DESPERATE CONDITION WE ARE IN and how desperately we NEED the MERCY OF THE FATHER.. mercy is undeserved we have no right or no hope of being saved yet it is the good pleasure of the FATHER that LONGS TO WORK IN US TO SAVE US!!

HE is the alpha and OMEGA.. he will FINISH the work He began in you.. and TRULY ONLY HE CAN FINISH IT.. if you think that He started it and now you have to finish it.. I would be very scared because it is a great deception to THINK THAT YOU ARE AS BIG AS THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE AND THAT YOU CAN FINISH IT.. truly this is no different than what Adam thought in the garden I will be as GOD!!

YOU CANT BE AS GOD, there is nothing great that happens in the life of human being (PRIMARILY SALVATION) unless IT IS SOVERIGNLY DONE BY THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE!! For what is man compared to the Creator?? Truly a grain of sand at the bottom of the endless ocean and UNLESS THE FATHER IS WORKING IN YOU.. truly you have no hope!!


I said all this to come back to James 2. Our greatest problem with understanding scripture is that WE DON'T UNDERSTAND the English language of which the bible was written in. A very wise man of God realized that he didn't need to go study Hebrew or greek but really need to learn English. Many misquote and misinterpret the bible simply because we don't understand the old English prose that the bible was written in.
James 2 is a primary example.

This verse in KJV/interlinear is saying that Abraham our father was justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar.

Let me ask you a question whose �works� where these?? Abrahams? Gods?
To understand what James is saying we need to go back and read the account of Abraham in Genesis to understand the context of what He is saying because I can make up my own interpretation of this passage which many do but unless I allow the Spirit to give me the understanding I am just making things up. The greatest bible dictionary is scripture, scripture interprets scripture though there are some good commentaries out there you don't need to rely on what could be the wisdom of man to understand the bible. When the Holy Spirit inspired the BIBLE there was no need for commentary IT WAS DESIGNED TO INTERPRET ITSELF!!

So lets allow the Spirit to interpret what James is saying here. Going back to Genesis who is ISAAC?? Abrahams son. Now was ISAAC born because of Abrahams work or abilities?? Here is the VERY KEY TO INTERPRETTING THIS SCRIPTURE.. ISAAC was not born because of ABRAHAMS works because Abraham tried to have a son on his own works and produced Ishmael!!

God is very clear ANYTHING that WE PRODUCE BY OUR OWN WORKS is of the FLESH and must BE CAST OUT OF THE HOUSE.. even as God told Abraham to cast out the bondwoman (hagar) and her son. For nothing done of the flesh or nothing done ALONE By our own works is ever acceptable in the sight of GOD!!

You see GOD is not after our goods works� because WE DON'T HAVE ANY.. there is no human being who has GOOD WORKS.. that is why God is waiting for us to stop trying to do our own good works and waiting for us TO GIVE UP TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY that HE WOULD BEGIN TO WORK IN US!!

Abraham is the father of faith because this is the great journey that he is taking each of us on. Finally once Abraham totally and completely SURRENDERED God could begin to work.

Isaac is the child of promise and IS THE VERY WORK Of GOD that God worked in Abraham.
Once Abraham had totally and completely surrendered God began to work IN HIM.. faith spoke and called Abraham out of THE TEMPERAL PHYSICAL REALM on a journey to a city with foundations whose maker and builder is GOD ( Heb 11). Like Abraham God is longing to take every one of his children on a great journey to HIS ETERNAL KINGDOM (to his city).

So faith spoke and Abraham started walking. Then he came to Egypt and got in his own works again stumbled and fell and lied about his wife being his sister. Did God leave him there in his own pitiful works. NO GRACE INTERVENED!!

Instead of plaguing the one who lied (Abraham) God plagues Pharoah and his house with great plagues because of Sarah Abrhams wife ( Gen 12.17). IS THIS NOT GRACE!! Undeserved favor why would God plague the one Pharoah it was really Abrahams fault for lying..
God was not ignoring Abrahams lying but as any Father looks after his children, he knew Abraham would fall and now like a loving father GRACE STEPS IN and PICKS up little Abraham who got in his own works again.

The process repeats over and over again until God finally brings Abraham to the place of fullness of trust. It was a painful journey of Gods works combined with Abrahams works (stumbling and falling). Finally after Abraham kept falling in his own works and GRACE (God�s works) kept picking HIM up finally GODS WORKS BEGAN TO PREVAIL over Abrahams works.

This is the great journey the Father is longing to take every one of his children on. He is not after your good works, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY. He IS AFTER YOUR HEART!! HE is after you TO ACTAULLY BELIEVE HIM and come to the place of fullness of trust where you OFFER WHAT HE HAS DONE IN YOU back up to HIM on the altar of God. To come to the place of fullness of TRUST WHERE YOU ACTAULLY OFFER YOUR ENTIRE LIFE BACK TO GOD ON THE ALTAR!!
For Abraham offering up Isaac was offering up his Name and HIS LIFE for all eternity. It is as if Abraham was saying �I am offering my eternal future, my name (which Isaac would carry on) and everything else, offering up Isaac truly would be offering up HIS ETERNAL FUTURE.
Imagine God had been working for over 40 years to bring this child forth and NOW GOD IS ASKING ABRAHAHM TO GIVE HIM UP!! It would take a complete TRUST IN the FATHER TO DO THIS�
Yet Abraham the very next morning woke up EARLY and took the great three day journey saying I and the LAD will go up yonder and WORSHIP and RETURN.. he had such a FULLNESS OF TRUST and even inside into the heart of the FATHER that HE KNEW that they would return�
This is a fullness of TRUST that ONLY the FATHER could work into a human being therefore as JAMES is saying it is very clear.

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Faith without the WORKS of GOD working in you and bringing you to a place of FULLNESS OF TRUST IS LIFELESS and VAIN and of no purpose what so ever. For your FAITH is DEAD without the WORKS OF FATHER working in you.

As seen so clearly in the life of Abraham which James makes reference too that even Abraham had faith but kept stumbling in his own works and HIS FAITH would have been completely dead and of no purpose unless GRACE would have picked HIM UP and the FATHERS works were prevailing and cleaning up every spiritual mess Abraham got himself in.

For the Father knows we will mistakes and He knows HOW FRAIL WE ARE and that we are mere children in his sight. The problem is many of us try to pretend we are something we are not. Jesus said unless you be as a child you cant enter the kingdom yet we try to be some type of super spiritual adults but there is no such thing as an adult in the kingdom of God only children!! And unless you be a child you cannot enter. The Father knows how frail you are, and knows you will fall that IS WHY HE WANTS TO WORK the works of GOD IN YOU.. for this is the only way you will come to completion in Christ.

That is why Jesus came He said I have come to work the works of God. For man cannot do these works only God can. O vain man do you not know that faith without works is dead? That only the Father can do these works and UNLESS HE DOES your FAITH IS IN VAIN..

Only God could bring Abraham to the fullness of trust. Faith spoke and Abraham began the great journey but unless God had been working in Him along the way His Faith would have been in vain. He would not even have made it past Egypt. Pharoah would have taken Sarah as his wife and the whole journey and plan would have come to an end before it even began!!!

Truly without Gods works IS a DEAD END ROAD, unless God is working Abrahams faith, my faith and your faith is in VAIN and totally purposeless!!

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?


21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
When was Abraham justified? By his own works in having Ishmael, far be it from that. No Abraham was justified when HE CEASED FROM HIS OWN WORKS and surrendered to the Father and allowed GOD to work IN HIM and bring forth LIFE INSIDE OF HIM�

For in this hour the Father is longing and looking for FAITHFUL ONES He can work in and even grow up his very own LIFE IN!! Isaac is only a type and shadow of the CHRIST LIFE that God is longing to put in FAITHFUL ones who have ceased from their own works and totally surrendered to the FATHER and will allow THE CHRIST LIFE TO FULLY COME to MATURITY in them.
GOD IS DOING IT ALL but he is not doing it without you!! HE is working in you both to will and to do his good pleasure all HE IS LOOKING FOR IS A WILLING and CONTRITE HEART!! He knows how frail man is, for heaven is His Throne and the earth his footstool yet there is ONE I WILL looketh upon saith the Lord, Him who is of a broken heart and contrite spirit.

He is not interested in how spiritual you are, or how much you understand for surely all that is only getting in the way of KNOWING HIM.

For I have called you even with an eternal calling and predestined you to be here even before the foundation of the world.. yet only as you become a child can you understand the great things of my kingdom.. therefore continue getting younger and younger more childlike every day.. for it is not your intellect or understanding that ONLY HINDER and what you have learned.. NOW IHAVE TO DESTROY all the SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING you acquired.. for it is of no help and actually has been keeping you out of my kingdom..


22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
ONLY BY the works of GOD can FAITH BE MADE PERFECT.. only by the Father working in Him did Abraham reach the place off offering HIS NAME and eternal hope back to the Father.

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

What is a friend? Deutoronomy has a very deep thought a friend is as ones own soul! When Abraham offered up Isaac he was saying to the Lord.. I don't want to be like me anymore, I WANT TO BE LIKE YOU!! And in this giving back to God all that God had done in HIM no longer wanting to be like himself anymore but I want to be like YOU FATHER.

In this Abraham became a friend of God�. AFTER WALKING with the Lord and ceasing from his own works but ALLOWING the WORKS of God to PREVAIL IN HIS LIFE truly this He offered up himself back to God and became a Friend of God.

For this is the great journey of every believer. That one may actually become a friend of God. This is the high calling in Christ Jesus that every believer has been called to.
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
That you may actually know Him. For this is eternal life to know the ONE TRUE GOD and Savior Jesus Christ.

Grace and peace to all the Saints