The Trinity is very simply, Its FATHER ,SON AND GRANSON Just like Abraham Issac and Jacob, WITHOUT this father son and granson scenario there cd not be an Israel of God .Thats y he told Moses his name was Abraham ISSAC AND JACOB and my memorial to all generations impling an Israel of God is coming after the book is opened and the sower will go forth to sow his precious seed fulfilling that Promise that Christ will be multiplied as the stars of heaven ( an Israel of GOD ). But they are spirits as he said that which is born of the spirit is SPIRIT Thats the h.g the CHILDREN OF Promise, The Israel of God that are gonna be born in US sinners . And also Jesse David and Solomon were father son and granson But 1 kingdom. And here is the kicker Isaiah uses this Jesse David and Solomon kINGDOM as A TYPE OF THE kINGDOM COMING IN THE LAST DAYS. ISAIAH cd not be be refering to the natural Jesse David Solomon, they had been dead for aprox. 200 yrs. Isaiah was refering to the Father Son and H.G. TYPE OF KINGDOM COMING IN THE LAST DAYS. THE TRINITY, GODS KINGDOM HIS NAME FOREVER. Without a granson like Jacob there cd not be multiplIcation of Abrams ( CHRIST SEED ) and that was the great Promise which was the H.G the children of Promise. Via that new covenant. i.e. a baby Christ is gona be born in us via that GOOD seed. Thats y the woman is in travail and birth pains K
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace isaiah 9:6
Is this enough?
Check out the geneology of Genesis that portrays the gospel. Also God states ingenesis "Let s make man in Our image" not my image.
"there is no proof that supports the Trinity." Do you not count the Bible as proof, because the Bible is full of proof:
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
How else can you explain this verse "these three are one" other than that these three are one? Doesn't it literally mean what it says? And how do you explain all the other verses that echo the same thing?
There is no proof that the father, son, and holy ghost is NOT all one. It literally says that in the Bible 1 John 5:7, does it not? Where is your proof that the Bible isn't true? How do you know that you haven't been deceived?
Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"
1 John 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
1 John 5:10 "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."
1 John 5:11 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."
Isaiah 7:14 14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 9:6 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 44:6 6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Prophesy Fulfilled
Matthew 1:21 Context 20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet,
Revelation 22:13 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
John 1:3 Context 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Titles used in the Bible = Word, God, Spirit, Holy Spirit, Redeemer, Almighty Father, I AM, First & Last, Wonderful Counselor, Lord, Alpha and Omega, etc = all these titles belong to JESUS.
I believe it is more logical to explain the Holy Spirit this way.
God is the source of all truth.
God could not reach man from heaven so he sent Jesus with His truth for all people.
Jesus is the truth made flesh.
The truth Jesus brings is the same as the truth of God the Father. But Jesus himself cannot speak the truth to every person.
The Holy Spirit is the truth.
The Holy Spirit is truth. The same truth as the truth of God and the same truth as the truth Jesus brings to all humans. The Holy Spirit can go everywhere. Truth can be spoken, written, sent out on the radio, the television and the internet. Truth, the Holy Spirit, can reach all people.
They are all three truth.
Truth Truth Truth
So, yes you can say they are three in one. They are truth, truth, truth. All three are the same truth. If you have the Holy Spirit in you, you also have the truth of God and the truth of Jesus in you. If you depart from the truth you do not have the Holy Spirit and you do not have God or Jesus. All three are truth and all three are gone when you depart from the truth.
Not disagreeing with you on concerning the trinity God has always been eternal and omnipomnipresent all powerful and all knowing and spirit to say that Jesus Christ is spirit and all powerful and everywhere present show me that also gift of holy spirit came on day of Pentecost given to all who choose to believe for first time in history birthday of church also one other point nowhere in the gospels does either the devil or devil spirits call him God they call Him Son of God and if anybody knew who he is it would surely be his arch enemy.
That's very true. Jesus was always called the Son of God, & so He was (& is). But the question really is: but where did Jesus, the Son of God, come from? Was it from the Being or Essence of God, or was He a new human creation (with the fusing of the Divine & human seed)?
In the beginning did not God speak ie His word creation into being so once a women ie mary met the criterior ie Gabriel spoke Gods words to her what God was going to do she believed and sayed be it unto be accord to thy word, now in human birth the dominate genetics are on the fathers side, ie God created sperm in mary ie flesh and blood because God Almighty can do that is what made Jesus Christ the only begotten of God. Later on John the baptists baptised him because he had to fulfill all the law then you read the spirit descended on Him like as a dove. Up until His time men had spirit upon them in measure He was given all of Gods power and authority, and still humbled Himself and said I can do nothing without my father i.e. His Spiritual connection unbreakable. Make no mistake Adam was perfect and blew did not keep Gods Word, the Second Adam Jesus Christ did'nt blow it he never disobeyed his fathers will. But remember he was a human being who the hell beat out of Himself and never broke down just thinking on that should blow anybodies mind if they choose to believe, what a complete saviour God Bless.
Rick you state, "now in human birth the dominate genetics are on the fathers side, ie God created sperm in mary ie flesh and blood because God Almighty can do that is what made Jesus Christ the only begotten of God". Can I assume that you also believe that, with God's created (human) sperm, he used Mary's ovum to form this new Man? Or is there another possibility in your mind?
If so, what are the implications for the transmission of the sin nature to Jesus, given that a human seed (which carries the fallen nature) is passed onto children? Of course, some do believe that Jesus had a sin nature & the occasion of temptation by Satan was to cause Jesus to succumb to that nature & become a sinner & hence a failure to be a Redeemer. But I'm not sure of your position, since you believe that a fusing of a Divine Seed & a human seed was involved.
THIS IS THE SMALL CHANGE THAT CHANGED, NULLIFIES THE TRUTH, CHECK YOUR BIBLE. FROM NOW ON, GOD HAS WARNED YOU AND I. CHANGE OR REMAIN DISOBEDIENT TO GOD.
Definition of words or prepositions:
"through" = (KJV Dictionary) by means of, by the agency of. (Mirriam Webster Dictionary) by way of, by means of, by virtue of.
"by" = (KJV Dictionary) as an adverb, by denotes a noun (JESUS) is understood performed the actions.
HERE ARE BIBLE VERSES AS PROOFS
Genesis 1:4 Context 1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
TO SUPPORT THE EXISTENCE OF THE TRINITY
1.False Teachers claimed this statement of God proved it using plural pronouns (us & our): Verse 26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:"
2.TRUTH EXPOSED "False Teachers" CLAIM = notice used of singular pronoun (he & his)= Verse 27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
JUSTIFICATION OF GOD'S USED OF PLURAL PRONOUNS "US & OUR" = HE IS SURROUNDED BY CHERUBIMS AS MESSENGERS
Ezekiel 10:19 Context 19And the cherubims lifted up their wings, and mounted up from the earth in my sight: when they went out, the wheels also were beside them, and every one stood at the door of the east gate of the LORD'S house; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above. 20This is the living creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they were the cherubims. 21Every one had four faces apiece, and every one four wings; and the likeness of the hands of a man was under their wings.
Another explanation of the Godhead - One God name Jesus
Another explanation of Jesus as God, Spirit, Word, other titles:
An example, a man: he can be a "husband" to his wife, (did his number change? No), he can be a "father" to his children and at the same time, a "President" of his company and boss of his employees; the man has 3 different titles serving different functions, yet being the same person. So with the Godhead: 3 titles or functions or manifestations but the same one God.
Another example: imagine yourself to possess the power to transform into different creatures. One day you want to swim in the ocean, you changed to a fish. After you become a fish, did your number multiply? No, you simply became a fish. Now, you want to fly in the sky, you changed into a bird. Did your number multiply? Again no. Then you changed into an ox to graze through the grassland. Still your number didn't multiply into two or three beings but changed into the creature you wanted to be. The mystery behind the Godhead is as simple as this. Why do we have to complicate things?
To Rob & Randy. Leaving aside Jesus the Son of God, as this is primarily where the problem of the 'Trinity' surfaces. How do you dear brothers, view the Person of the Holy Spirit? Who is He? Is He a separate God? Or a Force/Power of God? Or maybe One come out from God?
Why I ask this, is because your answer to this also defines who Jesus is, then & now. Thank you.
God did send out His Word by the prophets but lastly sent His final message through that same Word ( Hebrews 1:1,2), now clothed in flesh for not just in bringing out God's Word in Person, but for the main purpose, that this Word (of God, from God, as God) would lay down His Life as a full substitutionary payment for our sins.
So here is the difficulty that you have, implying: the Son of God was only that, a special separate creation, holy & sinless, Who would sacrifice His Life in our stead. Yes, He was a special creation, not out of nothing, but from God's very Being. Though the requirement of a spotless Sacrificial Lamb offering would have been met in such a (separate) creation by God, it would lack the most important aspect of such a sacrifice: that God Himself would make the payment for man's sins. This is the true & fullest expression of God's Love ( 1 John 3:16: "Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he (God) laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."). God had to come down to the realm of sinful man, taking on his flesh & ultimately becoming the sin offering that gives full pardon to all who come to Him by faith & unequivocal love in response. If God did not take this initiative, or He (in Jesus) failed to rise from the dead, we would remain hopeless, unredeemable, consigned to hell fire for all eternity.
I pray Rob, that you & any other who is at variance to what the Scripture teaches on this important matter, might know that your salvation hangs onto the fact that God had to lay down His Life to redeem you, & that He accomplished that by coming down, sending His Word, in the Person of Jesus Christ, Who then rose again to the Father, to Whom He once prayed: "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" ( John 17:5). A very compelling Statement of Truth.
I think Rob, a dictionary wouldn't be very useful in this matter. So your answer is: "The Holy Spirit is of God". Well, that's correct but to expand on that a little, if I may amplify your thoughts. In great care, I would suggest that you also believe that the Holy Spirit is a Person, i.e. He comes from within the Godhead, sent into the World of sinners to convict & to indwell those who have been born again that they might lead new lives with a new Power within.
That He must be a Person, as shown in many examples: Intelligence ( 1 Corinthians 2:10,11); has feelings ( Ephesians 4:30); has a Will ( 1 Corinthians 12:11); has a Mind ( Romans 8:27); teaches ( John 14:26); guides ( Romans 8:14, John 16:13); commissions ( Acts 13:4); commands ( Acts 8:29); restrains ( Genesis 6:3, 2 Thessalonians 2:7); intercedes ( Romans 8:26); speaks ( John 15:26). Though He may be a spirit as from God, out of God's Being, He is the very Expression & Person of God Himself. I hope you agree to that, or am I putting words in your mind or mouth?
Then we come to God's Word. As seen with the Spirit, the Word of God is unseen, the very Articulation of God in creating, giving commands & direction whether to heavenly hosts, to His people on Earth or through His prophets & in other utterances that we're unaware of. Now there may be other aspects of God's Being that we're not told of, but of the Word & the Spirit, there's no dispute. The difficulty now for some remains with the 'Word'.
If then, God sends out His Spirit to accomplish His Purposes, why is it so hard to comprehend that He sends out His Word to do likewise? Or is that because the Spirit has no flesh, therefore it must hold true that God's Word can only be spirit without flesh? What if God chose to give His Spirit flesh maybe that would make it easier to understand the 'Word' easier.
There is no need to get sharp. We are just trying to understand why you say believing Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one with God the Father is "damning". No one is saying Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are not OF God. We are saying they are more OF God than anything else in all of creation. Nothing is more OF God than Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. It is confusing why you think it is "damning" to believe God is in them, or they in God, more than anything else.
Please don't think anyone is trying to take anything away from God the Father. Who is of coarse Spirit and the source of all things.
Also you didn't answer the one question I asked about if you believe Christ existed before He was born on earth. Just a yes or no question. You just asked me if "I understand God was before the creation of world". Which you must not have read John 17:5 I posted for you that answers that question. Jesus stating the glory He had WITH THE FATHER before the world was.
Hi bro its Rick The word of God states in Ephesians ! : 4 that God new before the foundations of the world we would be born and believe in the same sense God all knowing new He would have to save us from the adversary by Giving the perfect human sacrifice His only begotten son. No where in scripture does it literally say that physically or in any other form Jesus Christ was in the beginning with God, that is a matter of how someones interpreting what is being read . Like I myself have lost count on how many interpretations I've heard or read on one verse of scripture. Just keep one thing in mind either the whole word is perfect and fits with life or something is lost in interpretations. The great reason for denominations is that men have decided what they believe it says, the apostle paul one of the greatest men of God that ever lived made this statement 2 Timothy 1:15 all of Asia turned away from what God told him to teach that was about 80 years after pentecost, and this Guy was given to write the seven church epistles and in Ephesians 4:4 There is one body one spirit and one hope and one lord and one Father, I did'nt write the book, since thats supposed to be the case you explain to me what happened other then one man saying this is what I think and another man saying the same. I'll stick paul in Galatians one six -twelve I'll stick with paul and The Gospel that God Gave Him, also he was so important thatJesus Christ appeared to Him.
Thanks Chris, That is the simplest way to get to the source of this debate I've heard. I think we also with our finite minds we look at the word son and we associate it with what we know in relationship to that word whether biologically or adoption in view of rank, but in the spiritual we have limited knowledge and full understanding of words and quotes like manifested, "In the fathers bosom" "I the beginning was the word" now if you associate that with Alfa and Omega you know that he has no beginning. "Me and my father are one" "Thought it not robbery to be equal with God" " You seen me you've seen the father " many many other Quotes. and these are by the Author of the inspired scripture not the reader. How do you debate and quarrel with the reader. Its funny how both views have no problem accepting the Holyspirit as a devine being just by one word. "HE" but quarrel over the volume of the book expressing the diety of Chist. The answer to the question doesn't bring you salvation.
The Bible gives us the way of decerning spirits . Found in the epistles of John . It's determined by knowing who precisely Jesus is . Otherwise it's the wrong Jesus and of the spirit of anti christ , this makes no sense to an anti christ because they can not see their error . It's for the true believers. The blind will always be blind . I marvel at how blind many are . I can't open their eyes to see until they are born again . The whole trinity doctrine is a man made version that really does not work . But for the blind they think so . It's just pagan to me . And of the spirit of anti christ when tested by real decernment .
Hi Rob, I'd you truly believe we're blind and you're not, and you say we will never see it until we're saved, Why are you giving us all your time on the trinity doctrine that can't help us, Spend your time on teaching/Preaching the Gospel that open eyes and save lives, Isn't that's what you're called to do?
If I may ask one question. Yes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I hope people reading the Bible know this as that is what Christ denotes Himself as. Also being one with the Father. The Father being in Him and He in the Father. As God is Spirit.
Do you believe we should honor the Son even as we honor the Father? Thank you.
1 Cor 5:9."I wrote unto you in an epistle (1) not to company with fornicators." The cross reference "not to company with fornicators" sends me to (1) 2 Cor 6:14: "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?" Do not marry a fornicator.
Husbands
Eph. 5:25, 26." Husbands love your wives, even as Christ loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he (JESUS) might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word."
Jesus will sanctify and cleanse the church when he comes. Before he does this, the churches are profane/unholy and unclean. Today Christianity looks like S&G. Jesus will sanctify the church. He will remove fornication from our present day Christianity.
How do you sanctify a person or a church? It is the same for both a person and a church.
"For this is the will of God, even your sanctification that ye should abstain from fornication" 1 Thes. 4:3."
Notice that Jesus will tell husbands to love their wives the same way as he will love the church. Jesus will remove fornication from the church and make the church holy. He is telling husbands to do the same for marriage. Remove fornication from marriage. Your wives were not given to you to abuse in the unholy manner of fornication. There is no fornication in holy matrimony. Holy people do not commit acts of oral or anal sex.
1 Corinthians 5:9 in my Bible does cross-reference with 2 Corinthians 6:14 & also Ephesians 5:11. So when I look at all three, I see only one thought that is common to all - and it isn't 'fornication'. The common thought is: 'not to keep company', refuse fellowship, have no fellowship'. That is why these three verses were cross-referenced - not because of 'fornication'. You have placed this word there, or at least wanting to believe that these verses in all three passages are speaking about fornication.
Anyway, I have said this over & over again: you really need to read & interpret Scriptures as given & not force words & meanings into it that are not intended. You have this thing on your mind (& you still haven't explained from where you learned to read Scriptures this way), that all wickedness has its root in fornication. Yet, even with the 1 Corinthians 5:9 verse, you neglect to mention the other sins associated with that verse: covetous, extortioners, idolaters & even those in verse 11. Why are those sins omitted & fornication stands out? You're fixated on it & are forgetting the equal sinfulness of the other sins.
Yes, Chris, You have asked what made me begin to study about what the Bible tells us about human sexuality. Years ago I made a trip to San Francisco where I heard of men having sex with men. In my mind's eye I put two men together face to face and said, "I don't see how they could do anything." When I arrived home, I asked my pastor what do two men do sexually? He answered, "They commit oral sex." And then he added, "All men do that." I was shocked! The first thought that came into my mind was, "I wonder what God says about that? I began my study to find the answer to that question. Because he believed all men do that, I assumed he was including himself. I took my membership out of Christianity at that time. I don't belong in a group like that. The second thought that immediately came to mind was, "I wonder if that has anything to do with cancer?
The Bible has much to say about human sexuality. Fornication is one of the main words it uses. In 1 Corinthians 6:13 it declares, "The body is not made for fornication, but for the Lord. " And in Jude we know that those in S&G committed fornication. But the body is not made for that. Many translation have removed the word fornication from the Bible. Even the New King James removed it from the book of Jude.
I agree, that 'fornication' is used quite often in the Bible, but when we examine the Scriptures referring to it, we would find that it doesn't always apply to how we understand it now, but can have several meanings & applications. There are references to Israel's spiritual fornication ( 2 Chronicles 21:11 & Ezekiel 16:26,29) & we know of the heathen's compulsion in this area associated with temple worship where temple prostitutes served to bring worshippers to a heightened experience of their god. A grievous sin indeed, but we shouldn't make this sin our focus because of its numerous references, as all sin, as seen in every book of the Bible, is as much sin as fornication is. But if fornication is made to be the cause of all sin, then we'll find that we have to alter the intent & meaning of relevant Scriptures to suit our belief & for this, thus you will have noticed the comments coming to you from us, to highlight this error.
Thank you Marilyn, for sharing a little of the background for your focus & insistence about fornication being the cause of sin.
From what you've shared, & maybe as a younger more nave lady, such a response from your Pastor would have truly shocked you as something unbelievable & abominably disgraceful. And that he added, "all men do that", surely must have applied to those who have that disposition & not to ALL men, including himself. Maybe you should have sought further clarification from him about what he just told you, but I guess you were in great distress & perplexity.
So armed with that revelation from him, you began your search in the Bible. Then with what you do know now (i.e. the truth), that such sins of o & a sex, are limited to those of homosexual disposition & not to heterosexual men (which are still in the majority, I hope), I'm left wondering why you still feel that from this type of sin all others are produced. In Sodom, this sin was clearly evident but so were many other sins (as in any country or community even today), so from where did your firm belief arise? The sin of fornication is indeed a most wicked sin, but it is only one of a countless number of sins which God detests & which sends men to hell. Even if a man or woman does not sin by fornication (in mind or body), some other sin will get them & consign them to hell.
I also believe Jesus Christ and God the Father to be two. Although one in each other. I do not see it ridiculous to say that. As Jesus Christ was born of a virgin conceived by the Holy Ghost. He is part God and part man like no other. No one comes to the Father but by Him. As I'm sure you know.
You can never be one with your wife as Christ is one with God. That is totally different. As Christ stating the words he spake are not of Himself but of the Father that dwelleth in Him. John 14:10 A husband and wife is not like that.
I'm not sure what you believe? Do you believe Jesus Christ was with God before the world was? As in:
John the baptist stating the Messiah existed before him John 1:15
The Word becoming flesh and dwelling among us as the only begotten of the Father John 1:14
Jesus stating "before Abraham was I am" John 8:58
Jesus stating the glory He had with the Father before the world was John 17:5
Do you understand that God was before the creation of the world ? If you do then you would understand how the son of God Jesus has a special relationship.
You do not appear to understand . But that's why indoctrination is so bad people are mislead in the very basics .
Yes Jesus is the Son of God . No one ever could make this claim and God himself verified this . No further discussion needed . God was before the creation of the world , pretty simple .
As Christians we do believe in the triune God, throughout the NT Jesus and the apostles explain this, these are only a few bible verses to confirm this.
Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
1 John 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
1 John 5:10 "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."
1 John 5:11 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."
Is this enough?
Check out the geneology of Genesis that portrays the gospel. Also God states ingenesis "Let s make man in Our image" not my image.
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
How else can you explain this verse "these three are one" other than that these three are one? Doesn't it literally mean what it says? And how do you explain all the other verses that echo the same thing?
There is no proof that the father, son, and holy ghost is NOT all one. It literally says that in the Bible 1 John 5:7, does it not? Where is your proof that the Bible isn't true? How do you know that you haven't been deceived?
Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"
1 John 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
1 John 5:10 "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."
1 John 5:11 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."
Here is biblical proof with context
Isaiah Prophesy
Isaiah 7:14 14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 9:6 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 44:6 6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Prophesy Fulfilled
Matthew 1:21 Context 20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet,
Revelation 22:13 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
John 1:3 Context 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Titles used in the Bible = Word, God, Spirit, Holy Spirit, Redeemer, Almighty Father, I AM, First & Last, Wonderful Counselor, Lord, Alpha and Omega, etc = all these titles belong to JESUS.
God is the source of all truth.
God could not reach man from heaven so he sent Jesus with His truth for all people.
Jesus is the truth made flesh.
The truth Jesus brings is the same as the truth of God the Father. But Jesus himself cannot speak the truth to every person.
The Holy Spirit is the truth.
The Holy Spirit is truth. The same truth as the truth of God and the same truth as the truth Jesus brings to all humans. The Holy Spirit can go everywhere. Truth can be spoken, written, sent out on the radio, the television and the internet. Truth, the Holy Spirit, can reach all people.
They are all three truth.
Truth Truth Truth
So, yes you can say they are three in one. They are truth, truth, truth. All three are the same truth. If you have the Holy Spirit in you, you also have the truth of God and the truth of Jesus in you. If you depart from the truth you do not have the Holy Spirit and you do not have God or Jesus. All three are truth and all three are gone when you depart from the truth.
But the trinity doctrine is foreign to the Bible .
God is one God according to James .
If so, what are the implications for the transmission of the sin nature to Jesus, given that a human seed (which carries the fallen nature) is passed onto children? Of course, some do believe that Jesus had a sin nature & the occasion of temptation by Satan was to cause Jesus to succumb to that nature & become a sinner & hence a failure to be a Redeemer. But I'm not sure of your position, since you believe that a fusing of a Divine Seed & a human seed was involved.
Definition of words or prepositions:
"through" = (KJV Dictionary) by means of, by the agency of. (Mirriam Webster Dictionary) by way of, by means of, by virtue of.
"by" = (KJV Dictionary) as an adverb, by denotes a noun (JESUS) is understood performed the actions.
HERE ARE BIBLE VERSES AS PROOFS
Genesis 1:4 Context 1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
TO SUPPORT THE EXISTENCE OF THE TRINITY
1.False Teachers claimed this statement of God proved it using plural pronouns (us & our): Verse 26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:"
2.TRUTH EXPOSED "False Teachers" CLAIM = notice used of singular pronoun (he & his)= Verse 27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
JUSTIFICATION OF GOD'S USED OF PLURAL PRONOUNS "US & OUR" = HE IS SURROUNDED BY CHERUBIMS AS MESSENGERS
Ezekiel 10:19 Context 19And the cherubims lifted up their wings, and mounted up from the earth in my sight: when they went out, the wheels also were beside them, and every one stood at the door of the east gate of the LORD'S house; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above. 20This is the living creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they were the cherubims. 21Every one had four faces apiece, and every one four wings; and the likeness of the hands of a man was under their wings.
1.TAKES AWAY FROM = preposition "by"
2.ADDS = prepo
Another explanation of Jesus as God, Spirit, Word, other titles:
An example, a man: he can be a "husband" to his wife, (did his number change? No), he can be a "father" to his children and at the same time, a "President" of his company and boss of his employees; the man has 3 different titles serving different functions, yet being the same person. So with the Godhead: 3 titles or functions or manifestations but the same one God.
Another example: imagine yourself to possess the power to transform into different creatures. One day you want to swim in the ocean, you changed to a fish. After you become a fish, did your number multiply? No, you simply became a fish. Now, you want to fly in the sky, you changed into a bird. Did your number multiply? Again no. Then you changed into an ox to graze through the grassland. Still your number didn't multiply into two or three beings but changed into the creature you wanted to be. The mystery behind the Godhead is as simple as this. Why do we have to complicate things?
1= 1 not 3
If this does not work for you perhaps a prayer may help .
The devil is the author of confusion .
God is in the light and clearly to be understood especially about Jesus there can be no confusion . He is Gods Son . Nothing confusing about that .
Why I ask this, is because your answer to this also defines who Jesus is, then & now. Thank you.
The Holy Spirit is OF God who did you think he is of ? Is there another option?
God did send out His Word by the prophets but lastly sent His final message through that same Word ( Hebrews 1:1,2), now clothed in flesh for not just in bringing out God's Word in Person, but for the main purpose, that this Word (of God, from God, as God) would lay down His Life as a full substitutionary payment for our sins.
So here is the difficulty that you have, implying: the Son of God was only that, a special separate creation, holy & sinless, Who would sacrifice His Life in our stead. Yes, He was a special creation, not out of nothing, but from God's very Being. Though the requirement of a spotless Sacrificial Lamb offering would have been met in such a (separate) creation by God, it would lack the most important aspect of such a sacrifice: that God Himself would make the payment for man's sins. This is the true & fullest expression of God's Love ( 1 John 3:16: "Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he (God) laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."). God had to come down to the realm of sinful man, taking on his flesh & ultimately becoming the sin offering that gives full pardon to all who come to Him by faith & unequivocal love in response. If God did not take this initiative, or He (in Jesus) failed to rise from the dead, we would remain hopeless, unredeemable, consigned to hell fire for all eternity.
I pray Rob, that you & any other who is at variance to what the Scripture teaches on this important matter, might know that your salvation hangs onto the fact that God had to lay down His Life to redeem you, & that He accomplished that by coming down, sending His Word, in the Person of Jesus Christ, Who then rose again to the Father, to Whom He once prayed: "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" ( John 17:5). A very compelling Statement of Truth.
I think Rob, a dictionary wouldn't be very useful in this matter. So your answer is: "The Holy Spirit is of God". Well, that's correct but to expand on that a little, if I may amplify your thoughts. In great care, I would suggest that you also believe that the Holy Spirit is a Person, i.e. He comes from within the Godhead, sent into the World of sinners to convict & to indwell those who have been born again that they might lead new lives with a new Power within.
That He must be a Person, as shown in many examples: Intelligence ( 1 Corinthians 2:10,11); has feelings ( Ephesians 4:30); has a Will ( 1 Corinthians 12:11); has a Mind ( Romans 8:27); teaches ( John 14:26); guides ( Romans 8:14, John 16:13); commissions ( Acts 13:4); commands ( Acts 8:29); restrains ( Genesis 6:3, 2 Thessalonians 2:7); intercedes ( Romans 8:26); speaks ( John 15:26). Though He may be a spirit as from God, out of God's Being, He is the very Expression & Person of God Himself. I hope you agree to that, or am I putting words in your mind or mouth?
Then we come to God's Word. As seen with the Spirit, the Word of God is unseen, the very Articulation of God in creating, giving commands & direction whether to heavenly hosts, to His people on Earth or through His prophets & in other utterances that we're unaware of. Now there may be other aspects of God's Being that we're not told of, but of the Word & the Spirit, there's no dispute. The difficulty now for some remains with the 'Word'.
If then, God sends out His Spirit to accomplish His Purposes, why is it so hard to comprehend that He sends out His Word to do likewise? Or is that because the Spirit has no flesh, therefore it must hold true that God's Word can only be spirit without flesh? What if God chose to give His Spirit flesh maybe that would make it easier to understand the 'Word' easier.
There is no need to get sharp. We are just trying to understand why you say believing Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one with God the Father is "damning". No one is saying Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are not OF God. We are saying they are more OF God than anything else in all of creation. Nothing is more OF God than Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. It is confusing why you think it is "damning" to believe God is in them, or they in God, more than anything else.
Please don't think anyone is trying to take anything away from God the Father. Who is of coarse Spirit and the source of all things.
Also you didn't answer the one question I asked about if you believe Christ existed before He was born on earth. Just a yes or no question. You just asked me if "I understand God was before the creation of world". Which you must not have read John 17:5 I posted for you that answers that question. Jesus stating the glory He had WITH THE FATHER before the world was.
God Bless.
If I may ask one question. Yes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I hope people reading the Bible know this as that is what Christ denotes Himself as. Also being one with the Father. The Father being in Him and He in the Father. As God is Spirit.
Do you believe we should honor the Son even as we honor the Father? Thank you.
God Bless.
If you make the Son to be more or less than the testimony of the father and the Son .
Then they are dishonored , because their testimony is not believed .
You can be one with your wife too , but there still is two of you .
To say Jesus and God are one is beyond ridiculous , they are two . Yes Jesus is one in spirit and is as God is . Totally a different thing .
Jesus prayed that his followers would be one as he and the father are in gospel of John , so does that expand the trinity ? Ridiculous.
1 Cor 5:9."I wrote unto you in an epistle (1) not to company with fornicators." The cross reference "not to company with fornicators" sends me to (1) 2 Cor 6:14: "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?" Do not marry a fornicator.
Husbands
Eph. 5:25, 26." Husbands love your wives, even as Christ loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he (JESUS) might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word."
Jesus will sanctify and cleanse the church when he comes. Before he does this, the churches are profane/unholy and unclean. Today Christianity looks like S&G. Jesus will sanctify the church. He will remove fornication from our present day Christianity.
How do you sanctify a person or a church? It is the same for both a person and a church.
"For this is the will of God, even your sanctification that ye should abstain from fornication" 1 Thes. 4:3."
Notice that Jesus will tell husbands to love their wives the same way as he will love the church. Jesus will remove fornication from the church and make the church holy. He is telling husbands to do the same for marriage. Remove fornication from marriage. Your wives were not given to you to abuse in the unholy manner of fornication. There is no fornication in holy matrimony. Holy people do not commit acts of oral or anal sex.
Anyway, I have said this over & over again: you really need to read & interpret Scriptures as given & not force words & meanings into it that are not intended. You have this thing on your mind (& you still haven't explained from where you learned to read Scriptures this way), that all wickedness has its root in fornication. Yet, even with the 1 Corinthians 5:9 verse, you neglect to mention the other sins associated with that verse: covetous, extortioners, idolaters & even those in verse 11. Why are those sins omitted & fornication stands out? You're fixated on it & are forgetting the equal sinfulness of the other sins.
The Bible has much to say about human sexuality. Fornication is one of the main words it uses. In 1 Corinthians 6:13 it declares, "The body is not made for fornication, but for the Lord. " And in Jude we know that those in S&G committed fornication. But the body is not made for that. Many translation have removed the word fornication from the Bible. Even the New King James removed it from the book of Jude.
I agree, that 'fornication' is used quite often in the Bible, but when we examine the Scriptures referring to it, we would find that it doesn't always apply to how we understand it now, but can have several meanings & applications. There are references to Israel's spiritual fornication ( 2 Chronicles 21:11 & Ezekiel 16:26,29) & we know of the heathen's compulsion in this area associated with temple worship where temple prostitutes served to bring worshippers to a heightened experience of their god. A grievous sin indeed, but we shouldn't make this sin our focus because of its numerous references, as all sin, as seen in every book of the Bible, is as much sin as fornication is. But if fornication is made to be the cause of all sin, then we'll find that we have to alter the intent & meaning of relevant Scriptures to suit our belief & for this, thus you will have noticed the comments coming to you from us, to highlight this error.
Thank you Marilyn, for sharing a little of the background for your focus & insistence about fornication being the cause of sin.
From what you've shared, & maybe as a younger more nave lady, such a response from your Pastor would have truly shocked you as something unbelievable & abominably disgraceful. And that he added, "all men do that", surely must have applied to those who have that disposition & not to ALL men, including himself. Maybe you should have sought further clarification from him about what he just told you, but I guess you were in great distress & perplexity.
So armed with that revelation from him, you began your search in the Bible. Then with what you do know now (i.e. the truth), that such sins of o & a sex, are limited to those of homosexual disposition & not to heterosexual men (which are still in the majority, I hope), I'm left wondering why you still feel that from this type of sin all others are produced. In Sodom, this sin was clearly evident but so were many other sins (as in any country or community even today), so from where did your firm belief arise? The sin of fornication is indeed a most wicked sin, but it is only one of a countless number of sins which God detests & which sends men to hell. Even if a man or woman does not sin by fornication (in mind or body), some other sin will get them & consign them to hell.
You can never be one with your wife as Christ is one with God. That is totally different. As Christ stating the words he spake are not of Himself but of the Father that dwelleth in Him. John 14:10 A husband and wife is not like that.
I'm not sure what you believe? Do you believe Jesus Christ was with God before the world was? As in:
John the baptist stating the Messiah existed before him John 1:15
The Word becoming flesh and dwelling among us as the only begotten of the Father John 1:14
Jesus stating "before Abraham was I am" John 8:58
Jesus stating the glory He had with the Father before the world was John 17:5
You do not appear to understand . But that's why indoctrination is so bad people are mislead in the very basics .
Yes Jesus is the Son of God . No one ever could make this claim and God himself verified this . No further discussion needed . God was before the creation of the world , pretty simple .
Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
1 John 5:8 "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one."
1 John 5:10 "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."
1 John 5:11 "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son."