Bible Discussion Thread

Hi, do we have free will or are we predestinated.

The answer is two fold God almighty all powerful and all knowing gives us freedom of will along with his created angels and He also knows who is going to be born again, incredible God and he never makes anybody do anything or else you would not have free will either to do his word or not. Even his only begotten son had freedom of will he had to make up his mind to believe who the scriptures said he was, which is why he kept saying have ye not read, and on the road to emmmaus expounded all scripture concerning himself. that would have been a dynamite teaching to hear.

I don't understand this as, 'Either Or'. Both are different: one, that we hold onto & exercise, & the other, which is in God's domain. Of predestination, it's meaning suggests that God has given each one of us a destiny to reach. In the case of Ephesians 1:5 & 11, our predestination is in respect to our inclusion into His Family & our inheritance in Christ. In the Bible the word is not used as God laying out a plan that we have to reach regardless of the choices we make (I know there are some who believe this). But we do know, that God is Omniscient & that must mean that He knows what our destiny will be & how it's reached & that our choices will conform to His Plan.

Of our choice (or, free will), we have that ability as God's gift to us, as one of His Attributes given to us made in His Image. God doesn't control our free will - He expects that we choose & act properly, but given our fallen nature, it is inevitable that we will not do so & fail Him. So how do we bring the two (free will & predestination) together? Before we were even born, God knew all about us: our birth, our life, our death & our eternity ( Jeremiah 1:5, Psalm 139:16). And that Knowledge of God would also include all that we, as humans, experience, choose, suffer, excel in, in life.

His predestinating each of us, whether to be His very Own or to be outcasts, is not dependent on what He randomly allocates to each person, but on how we will respond to Him in life & particularly in our response to His Gospel. Therefore the life we choose to live & the destiny that we receive is based on our free will to choose & not on God's predetermination for us.

The Almighty God is all powerful all knowing and everywhere present and knows the beginning and end, what more remarkable all of His created works i.e. man and angels have been given freedom of will. The true God does not over step that, therefore does he know who will believe by freedom of will and be born again absolutely. I like to think how patient he was to wait long enough for a woman to believe to bare his son and Knowing his son would carry out his will perfectly so Our Father God would have a family for all eternity that are cleansed from sin totally and love him by freedom of will. Heres food for thought Jesus Christ said he doesn,t know when hes coming back thats in the hands of the father because only he knows that being written because OnlyGod almighty knows when the last person will believe to be born again. food for thought.

Angels always obey God ,u say they have free will but i am not convinced ,that would mean they r capable of sin ,i dont believe angels can sin ,they r not humans ,sin is very much a human perogative .

Suzanne, May the Spirit grace you with his understanding of his words:

Do Gods creatures have FREE WILL; or, are we the WORKS of the creator?

Ephesians 1:11 In whom (Spirit) also we have obtained (by grace) an inheritance (children), being predestinated (you have not chosen me, but I have chosen you. John 15:16) according to the purpose of him (Spirit) who WORKETH all things after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL:

Philippians 2:13 For it is God (Spirit) which WORKETH in you both to WILL and to DO of his good pleasure.



Colossians 1:29 Whereunto, I (Paul) also labour, striving according to his (Spirit) WORKING, which WORKETH in me mightily.

Isaiah 26:12 Lord, thou (Spirit) wilt ordain peace for us: for thou (Spirit) also hast wrought (WORKED) all our WORKS in us.

Isaiah 44:26 ......that PERFORMETH the counsel of his (Spirit) messengers....

Psalm 57:2 I will cry unto God most high that PERFORMETH all things for me.

Proverbs 16: 33 The lot is cast into the lap (we were predestined); but the whole disposing (WORK) thereof is of the Lord (Spirit)

Proverbs 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord (Spirit), as the rivers of water: he (Spirit) TURNETH it (man's heart) whithersoever he (Spirit) WILL.

Job 12:9 Who (man) knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord (Spirit) hath wrought (WORKED) this?

Job 23:14 For he (Spirit) PERFORMETH the things that is appointed (predestined) for me....

Job 23:10 But he (Spirit) knoweth the way that I take: when he (Spirit) has tried me, I shall come forth as pure gold.

Hebrews 4:3 For we which believed do enter into rest.....the WORKS (we are the works of the Spirit) were finished before the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 4:11 Let us (works of the Spirit) labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of UNBELIEF.

May the Spirit grace you with his wisdom.

Suzanne,

Angels aren't robots or mere animals acting merely on pre-programmed instinct. They have freewill to choose. I believe this because the Bible says so. It clearly says satan was a cherub (angel) in heaven and he disobeyed and was cast out.

Sources:

Ezekiel 28:12-18

Isaiah 14:12-14

Matthew 25:41 says satan also has angels. So, if you believe no angels can sin, and since satan has angels, do you not believe satan is evil or commits sin?

Does your belief that angels don't sin come from the Bible? If so, where in the Bible do you think it says angels don't think for themselves, don't have freewill, and that satan wasn't an angel? Now that you know these verses above exist in the Bible, does that influence your perspective?

Ok ,im not going 2 get into any kind of arguement with u or any one else ,taking verses out of context is always a mistake ,ive done it and im sure most of us have ,Ezekiel is talking 2 the nation of Tyrus ,Isaiah is talking 2 Babylon and its king and in Matthew Jesus is refering 2 people who say they r Christians but cannot even do the most basic acts of Christian kindness .Taking verses out of context is a big mistake ,i learned that the hard way ,its the best way ,u never forget a hard lesson .

I sure do not know everything but I do believe that there are good and bad Angles. Not really sure it is just something I kind of caught on to while reading the Bible. We will know all these answers one day and it may not be very long now??

I never said angels were robots or were acting on animal instincts ,dont put words in my mouth . Perhaps you would benefit from a Concordance ,Strongs is the best i think ,then you would b able 2 find out all the different meanings of the word angel and there fore understand the context each instance it is used .

You wrote "Angels always obey God ,u say they have free will but i am not convinced ,that would mean they r capable of sin ,i dont believe angels can sin" but the Bible disproves that. You offered no scriptural evidence to support your claim. You are encouraged to read the Bible and a concordance if you need more information.