Papal Rome is the beast, and anti christ I will let them tell you themseves.
The word "anti" in antichrist does not mean someone who is going to be openly anti (against) Christ. That word "anti" in the original Bible language can actually mean "IN PLACE OF". So could the bible antichrist be someone who has actually put himself "in place of" Christ? Well, we have further Bible evidence to support this. In 1 John 2:18-19 it says that there were "many antichrists", who "WENT OUT FROM THE CHURCH". In other words, John is pointing to the fact that those "antichrists" were WITHIN THE CHURCH!! Not only that, but Paul in 2 Thess. 2:3-4 calls the man of sin the "son of perdition". Now there is only one other place in the Bible where the name "son of perdition" is used, and that is in John 17:12 talking about JUDAS! And what was Judas? A professing follower of Christ Jesus. Someone who deceived from WITHIN the "church".
"The leader of the Catholic church is defined by the faith as the Vicar of Jesus Christ (and is accepted as such by believers). The Pope is considered the man on earth who TAKES THE PLACE of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity." (John Paul II, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, p. 3, 1994).
Ric. Interesting read on the Pope. There is a logic to your argument that's well developed. I wonder if the AntiChrist is a name used for both a Political Leader that will take over Europe and the Middle East and a Religious Leader at that time? There are some things John says in Revelation that lead us to believe that Rome is at the heart of the Kingdom the AntiChrist will set up, because of the reference to 7 hills on which Rome was initially built.
Daniel, as well as Revelation give us a glimpse into the nature and character of the AntiChrist. And here is my question. A new religion surfaced in the 600's that quickly took over the world. Through their followers, they made several attempts to establish a caliphate that embraced the world. Daniel speaks of a new religion that will be dominant when the AntiChrist enters the political and religious scene. We have seen how their attempts to establish a kingdom has been limited. But today, we see its influence increasing, particularly in Europe. An interesting fact is that the Messiah or Mehdi of this religion parallels the description Daniel and John give of the AntiChrist.
There are two contending religious and political ideologies in the Middle East and Europe, that have been and will be central to all political, religious and military actions.
1. Given the political and religious climate today, what role do you perceive this new religion will play to achieve peace in the Middle East?
2. In the rise of the AntiChrist?
3. In the persecution of Christians and Jews?
4. In the coming destruction of Israel?
5. Daniel refers to the armies that will rise against Israel as Persia and John as Babylon. What is the correlation?
6. What role will this religion play for acceptance of the AntiChrist?
7. Will this religion accept a peace treaty, other than from their own?
8. How will this leader establish ties to the Roman Church?
Dan 7-12, Joel, Zechariah, Matthew 24, 2 Thessalonians 2, Revelation
Jesus' prophecy that the pride of the Jewish nation, the temple, would be destroyed inspired the most intense rejection of His teachings. (See Matthew 24:1, 2.) In John 2:19, Jesus says, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Of course, Jesus is speaking of rebuilding a temple-not of stone and nails, but of living stones ( 1 Peter 2:5). Yet many refused to grasp this teaching ( John 2:20, 21). They even mocked Jesus on the cross regarding His prophecy ( Matthew 27:40).
Yet when Jesus died, the veil in the earthly temple ripped in two from the top to bottom, signifying that the temple no longer held meaning. A temple for sacrifice today would be as useless as it was then, and it would not be the house of God.
The New Testament is replete with the idea that the temple is the body of Jesus. Ephesians 2:19-22 says, "Ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God: And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." (See also 1 Peter 2:5.)
you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 2:5
Even after God provides all this clear evidence that His temple is a spiritual one, many Christians are waiting for the Jews to receive a construction permit to rebuild a physical temple on the site where a Muslim mosque now sits. However, there is no prophecy, promise, or commandment in the Bible that says the physical temple would ever be rebuilt after the Romans razed it nearly 2,000 years ago.
This might answer your question read and contemplate what this reformer said.
Nicolaus Von Amsdorf (1483 - 1565)
"He (the antichrist) will be revealed and come to naught before the last day, so that every man shall comprehend and recognize that the pope is the real, true antichrist and not the vicar of Christ ... Therefore those who consider the pope and his bishops as Christian shepherds and bishops are deeply in error, but even more are those who believe the the Turk (ISLAM) is the antichrist. Because the Turk (ISLAM) rules outside of the church and does not sit in the holy place, nor does he seek to bear the name of Christ, but is an open antagonist of Christ and His church. This does not need to be revealed, but it is clear and evident because he persecutes Christians openly and not as the pope does, secretly under the form of Godliness." (Nicolaus Von Amsdorf, Furnemliche und gewisse Zeichen, sig.A2r.,v.)
Revelation 13:1-8 ...'And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.'
1. IT RISES OUT OF THE SEA - Sea in prophecy represents an area of different people, nations and tongues ( Rev. 17:15). The Roman Catholic Church rose to power amongst the many different nations, people and tongues of Europe. It also has the largest support of people around the world than any other church or religion.
2. NAME OF BLASPHEMY ON THE HEADS - The Roman Catholic Church make blasphemous claims and speak great swelling words which are against God.
3. IT RECEIVES A DEADLY WOUND, WHICH WOULD BE HEALED - The Papal Church of Rome received a deadly wound in 1798 when the French army marched into Rome, taking the pope captive and ending the rule of the Papacy. Then in 1929, the Vatican received state power again which was signed into law by Mussolini.
4. IT MAKES WAR WITH THE SAINTS OF GOD - The Roman Catholic Church killed tens of millions of Christians during it's reign.
Research this info and you will see that the anti christ system is hiding in plain site.
Daniel 7:8,21,25 .....'I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.'
1. IT'S A LITTLE HORN - This is a little kingdom which matches the Vatican State as being the smallest kingdom in the world.
2. IT COMES UP OUT OF THE BEAST - The beast is Rome, and the Roman Catholic Church came to power from the Roman Empire.
3. IT RISES AMONG THE TEN HORNS - The Roman Catholic Church arose amongst the ten nations of Europe.
4. IT RISES TO POWER AFTER THE OTHER TEN HORNS - Rome fell in AD476 and split into the ten kingdoms of Europe. Then the Roman Catholic Church came to power in AD538.
5. UPROOTS THREE OF THE OTHER TEN HORNS - The Roman Catholic Church had three of the original kingdoms of Europe destroyed. The Vandals, Ostrogoths and the Heruli.
6. IT HAS EYES AND MOUTH OF A MAN - So this kingdom has a visible leader at the helm just like the pope.
7. IT PERSECUTES THE SAINTS OF GOD - The Roman Catholic Church killed tens of millions of Christians during it's reign in the "dark ages".
8. IT'S DIVERSE FROM THE OTHER HORNS - The other kingdoms were purely political kingdoms, but this one is "different". The Papal Church of Rome is a political AND religious kingdom
9. IT WILL SPEAK AGAINST GOD - The Roman Catholic Church speaks great boastful words which are against God.
Papal Rome is indeed not what Paul saw in his day. However the Bible defines what antichrist means.
1 John 2:22 - Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (ALL Jews deny Jesus and that makes them antichrist, if they believed in Jesus then they would be CHRISTIANS. IF you do not believe me call any Synagogue and ask them if Jesus is the Messiah.) If they refuse to use the name Jesus as the angel Gabriel named him and use Yeshua I suspect they may not what be they claim to be
1 John 2:23 - Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
If Jews do not accept Jesus as messiah, then who is their messiah?
1 Corinthians 16:22 - If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema (CURSED) Maranatha.
DO JEWS LOVE JESUS OR ARE THEY CURSED?
Rome did not kill Jesus. John 19:12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
Pilate wanted to release Jesus.
King James Bible book of John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Paul in 1 Thessalonians 2:14, 16 - For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, EVEN AS THEY HAVE OF THE JEWS: WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and THEY PLEASE NOT GOD, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: FOR THE WRATH IS COME UPON THEM TO THE UTTERMOST
There is no other religion, institution, city or kingdom that matches the Bible antichrist the way the Papal Church of Rome does. It's a PERFECT match! And do you remember what we showed you above how satan wants to be IN PLACE OF God and Jesus? Well, he is using the Roman Catholic Church to take the place of Jesus on earth and cause the world to worship him through this church. Even John Paul II admitted in his book that the pope(s) TAKE THE PLACE OF Jesus on earth:
"The leader of the Catholic church is defined by the faith as the Vicar of Jesus Christ (and is accepted as such by believers). The Pope is considered the man on earth who TAKES THE PLACE of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity.' (John Paul II, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, p. 3, 1994)
But the Bible clearly tells us that it is God's Spirit that takes the place of Jesus on earth. NOT the pope!
Remember: ANTI-Christ = IN PLACE OF-Christ = Roman Catholic Church!
12 - The man of sin is called 'the son of perdition' ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3). Judas was the only other person to be called this.
13 - The man of sin 'sits in the temple of God professing to be like God' ( 2 Thessalonians 2:4). Meaning the man of sin sits in a leadership position in 'the professed church' acting like he is god.
There is only one man who matches this description perfectly, and that is the pope(s) of the Papal Church of Rome. 12 - Judas was also called 'the son of perdition' ( John 17:12). So calling the man of sin by this name also, means the man of sin would be like Judas - A DECEIVER FROM WITHIN THE CHURCH. 13 - The pope(s) sit in the Roman Catholic Church acting like he is god on earth giving out indulgences to forgive sins, which only our Heavenly Father can do and being called 'holy father', a title which only our Heavenly Father has ( Mark 10:18).
'Antichrists' in 1 John
14 - John confirms in 1 John 2 that those who were antichrists professed to be followers of Jesus, but 'went out' from the TRUE church and revealed themselves to not be true followers of the Lord.
14 - The leaders of the Roman Catholic Church profess to be followers of Jesus, but they have made manifest that they 'went out from' the TRUE church and it's true original teachings to follow after heresy and Pagan traditions.
You make some compelling points that have to be examined carefully. But couldn't the same be said of other religions? The thinking has been that the Catholic Church could be at the heart of this, though it isn't something Catholics themselves welcome.
My thinking is that sort of corruption happens at the higher levels. We are told that the antichrist is already at work. And that includes a slow departure from sound doctrine from within the universal church.
End Time prophecies are very difficult to understand, because of their complex nature. Most usually have historical fulfillments that are sort of a precursor of the final outcome. One is the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD. Will the Temple be rebuilt? If not, how would Daniel's prophecy that the Abomination will proclaim himself God in the Holy of Holies, take place?
But as that time gets closer, we will understand more. Are there any other possibilities here?
The word "anti" in antichrist does not mean someone who is going to be openly anti (against) Christ. That word "anti" in the original Bible language can actually mean "IN PLACE OF". So could the bible antichrist be someone who has actually put himself "in place of" Christ? Well, we have further Bible evidence to support this. In 1 John 2:18-19 it says that there were "many antichrists", who "WENT OUT FROM THE CHURCH". In other words, John is pointing to the fact that those "antichrists" were WITHIN THE CHURCH!! Not only that, but Paul in 2 Thess. 2:3-4 calls the man of sin the "son of perdition". Now there is only one other place in the Bible where the name "son of perdition" is used, and that is in John 17:12 talking about JUDAS! And what was Judas? A professing follower of Christ Jesus. Someone who deceived from WITHIN the "church".
"The leader of the Catholic church is defined by the faith as the Vicar of Jesus Christ (and is accepted as such by believers). The Pope is considered the man on earth who TAKES THE PLACE of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity." (John Paul II, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, p. 3, 1994).
"ANTI" - Christ = "IN PLACE OF" Christ!
Daniel, as well as Revelation give us a glimpse into the nature and character of the AntiChrist. And here is my question. A new religion surfaced in the 600's that quickly took over the world. Through their followers, they made several attempts to establish a caliphate that embraced the world. Daniel speaks of a new religion that will be dominant when the AntiChrist enters the political and religious scene. We have seen how their attempts to establish a kingdom has been limited. But today, we see its influence increasing, particularly in Europe. An interesting fact is that the Messiah or Mehdi of this religion parallels the description Daniel and John give of the AntiChrist.
There are two contending religious and political ideologies in the Middle East and Europe, that have been and will be central to all political, religious and military actions.
1. Given the political and religious climate today, what role do you perceive this new religion will play to achieve peace in the Middle East?
2. In the rise of the AntiChrist?
3. In the persecution of Christians and Jews?
4. In the coming destruction of Israel?
5. Daniel refers to the armies that will rise against Israel as Persia and John as Babylon. What is the correlation?
6. What role will this religion play for acceptance of the AntiChrist?
7. Will this religion accept a peace treaty, other than from their own?
8. How will this leader establish ties to the Roman Church?
Dan 7-12, Joel, Zechariah, Matthew 24, 2 Thessalonians 2, Revelation
Jesus' prophecy that the pride of the Jewish nation, the temple, would be destroyed inspired the most intense rejection of His teachings. (See Matthew 24:1, 2.) In John 2:19, Jesus says, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Of course, Jesus is speaking of rebuilding a temple-not of stone and nails, but of living stones ( 1 Peter 2:5). Yet many refused to grasp this teaching ( John 2:20, 21). They even mocked Jesus on the cross regarding His prophecy ( Matthew 27:40).
Yet when Jesus died, the veil in the earthly temple ripped in two from the top to bottom, signifying that the temple no longer held meaning. A temple for sacrifice today would be as useless as it was then, and it would not be the house of God.
The New Testament is replete with the idea that the temple is the body of Jesus. Ephesians 2:19-22 says, "Ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God: And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." (See also 1 Peter 2:5.)
you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 2:5
Even after God provides all this clear evidence that His temple is a spiritual one, many Christians are waiting for the Jews to receive a construction permit to rebuild a physical temple on the site where a Muslim mosque now sits. However, there is no prophecy, promise, or commandment in the Bible that says the physical temple would ever be rebuilt after the Romans razed it nearly 2,000 years ago.
Nicolaus Von Amsdorf (1483 - 1565)
"He (the antichrist) will be revealed and come to naught before the last day, so that every man shall comprehend and recognize that the pope is the real, true antichrist and not the vicar of Christ ... Therefore those who consider the pope and his bishops as Christian shepherds and bishops are deeply in error, but even more are those who believe the the Turk (ISLAM) is the antichrist. Because the Turk (ISLAM) rules outside of the church and does not sit in the holy place, nor does he seek to bear the name of Christ, but is an open antagonist of Christ and His church. This does not need to be revealed, but it is clear and evident because he persecutes Christians openly and not as the pope does, secretly under the form of Godliness." (Nicolaus Von Amsdorf, Furnemliche und gewisse Zeichen, sig.A2r.,v.)
1. IT RISES OUT OF THE SEA - Sea in prophecy represents an area of different people, nations and tongues ( Rev. 17:15). The Roman Catholic Church rose to power amongst the many different nations, people and tongues of Europe. It also has the largest support of people around the world than any other church or religion.
2. NAME OF BLASPHEMY ON THE HEADS - The Roman Catholic Church make blasphemous claims and speak great swelling words which are against God.
3. IT RECEIVES A DEADLY WOUND, WHICH WOULD BE HEALED - The Papal Church of Rome received a deadly wound in 1798 when the French army marched into Rome, taking the pope captive and ending the rule of the Papacy. Then in 1929, the Vatican received state power again which was signed into law by Mussolini.
4. IT MAKES WAR WITH THE SAINTS OF GOD - The Roman Catholic Church killed tens of millions of Christians during it's reign.
Daniel 7:8,21,25 .....'I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.'
1. IT'S A LITTLE HORN - This is a little kingdom which matches the Vatican State as being the smallest kingdom in the world.
2. IT COMES UP OUT OF THE BEAST - The beast is Rome, and the Roman Catholic Church came to power from the Roman Empire.
3. IT RISES AMONG THE TEN HORNS - The Roman Catholic Church arose amongst the ten nations of Europe.
4. IT RISES TO POWER AFTER THE OTHER TEN HORNS - Rome fell in AD476 and split into the ten kingdoms of Europe. Then the Roman Catholic Church came to power in AD538.
5. UPROOTS THREE OF THE OTHER TEN HORNS - The Roman Catholic Church had three of the original kingdoms of Europe destroyed. The Vandals, Ostrogoths and the Heruli.
6. IT HAS EYES AND MOUTH OF A MAN - So this kingdom has a visible leader at the helm just like the pope.
7. IT PERSECUTES THE SAINTS OF GOD - The Roman Catholic Church killed tens of millions of Christians during it's reign in the "dark ages".
8. IT'S DIVERSE FROM THE OTHER HORNS - The other kingdoms were purely political kingdoms, but this one is "different". The Papal Church of Rome is a political AND religious kingdom
9. IT WILL SPEAK AGAINST GOD - The Roman Catholic Church speaks great boastful words which are against God.
1 John 2:22 - Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. (ALL Jews deny Jesus and that makes them antichrist, if they believed in Jesus then they would be CHRISTIANS. IF you do not believe me call any Synagogue and ask them if Jesus is the Messiah.) If they refuse to use the name Jesus as the angel Gabriel named him and use Yeshua I suspect they may not what be they claim to be
1 John 2:23 - Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
If Jews do not accept Jesus as messiah, then who is their messiah?
1 Corinthians 16:22 - If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema (CURSED) Maranatha.
DO JEWS LOVE JESUS OR ARE THEY CURSED?
Rome did not kill Jesus. John 19:12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
Pilate wanted to release Jesus.
King James Bible book of John 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Paul in 1 Thessalonians 2:14, 16 - For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, EVEN AS THEY HAVE OF THE JEWS: WHO BOTH KILLED THE LORD JESUS, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and THEY PLEASE NOT GOD, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: FOR THE WRATH IS COME UPON THEM TO THE UTTERMOST
"The leader of the Catholic church is defined by the faith as the Vicar of Jesus Christ (and is accepted as such by believers). The Pope is considered the man on earth who TAKES THE PLACE of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity.' (John Paul II, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, p. 3, 1994)
But the Bible clearly tells us that it is God's Spirit that takes the place of Jesus on earth. NOT the pope!
Remember: ANTI-Christ = IN PLACE OF-Christ = Roman Catholic Church!
12 - The man of sin is called 'the son of perdition' ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3). Judas was the only other person to be called this.
13 - The man of sin 'sits in the temple of God professing to be like God' ( 2 Thessalonians 2:4). Meaning the man of sin sits in a leadership position in 'the professed church' acting like he is god.
There is only one man who matches this description perfectly, and that is the pope(s) of the Papal Church of Rome. 12 - Judas was also called 'the son of perdition' ( John 17:12). So calling the man of sin by this name also, means the man of sin would be like Judas - A DECEIVER FROM WITHIN THE CHURCH. 13 - The pope(s) sit in the Roman Catholic Church acting like he is god on earth giving out indulgences to forgive sins, which only our Heavenly Father can do and being called 'holy father', a title which only our Heavenly Father has ( Mark 10:18).
'Antichrists' in 1 John
14 - John confirms in 1 John 2 that those who were antichrists professed to be followers of Jesus, but 'went out' from the TRUE church and revealed themselves to not be true followers of the Lord.
14 - The leaders of the Roman Catholic Church profess to be followers of Jesus, but they have made manifest that they 'went out from' the TRUE church and it's true original teachings to follow after heresy and Pagan traditions.
My thinking is that sort of corruption happens at the higher levels. We are told that the antichrist is already at work. And that includes a slow departure from sound doctrine from within the universal church.
End Time prophecies are very difficult to understand, because of their complex nature. Most usually have historical fulfillments that are sort of a precursor of the final outcome. One is the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD. Will the Temple be rebuilt? If not, how would Daniel's prophecy that the Abomination will proclaim himself God in the Holy of Holies, take place?
But as that time gets closer, we will understand more. Are there any other possibilities here?
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