Many, many Scriptures repeat again and again that there is no salvation through human goodness.
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."- Titus 3:5.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."- Eph. 2:8,9.
"Without shedding of blood is no remission."- Hebrews 9:22.
"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly."- Romans 5:6.
"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."- Isa. 53:6.
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."- I Peter 1:18,19.
"For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."- Rom. 6:23.
Dear sinner, remember that church membership will not save you. If you have been baptized, that cannot save you. Baptism does not save, does not keep anybody saved. It is only an act of duty for those who have already found Christ as their Saviour.
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?"- Romans 10:13,14.
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
There are many denominations out there and many are filled with the wisdom of man with I am right, and you are wrong, not love. Salvation is in the simplicity that is in Christ that is with faith and prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, in the Bible you will find the truth.
Romans 10:8-11 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Is being baptized in water in the name of Jesus in the Bible? Acts 2:38Romans 6:3-4 and more. Is being baptized with the Holy Ghost/Spirit in the Bible? 1 Corinthians 12:13Titus 3:52 Corinthians 1:21-22 and more. Does one come before the other, not necessarily, Acts 10:45-48, but the sealing of the Holy Ghost/Spirit in us is a must, Romans 8:11, read all of 8.
We must work out our salvation, Philippians 2:12, we will stand in judgment accountable for ourselves, what different denominations say will not acquit us. It is a lifetime journey, love and obedience are a must, Romans 6:16.
God bless you and God bless your journey He will always be with you and lift you up, John 16:131 Corinthians 16:23-24.
Thanks GiGi; and I hope you had a good time away, away from those noisy workers, at least.
I think what we are grappling with here, is the word, 'regeneration'. I understand you believe that 'regeneration' can happen at any time to the one who is 'elected to salvation' to enable him to come to salvation. Whereas, the word 'regenerate' to me means 're-birth', and not simply an awakening or displaying some propensity towards spiritual things. I'm sorry if I've not properly grasped your meaning, but that's what I gather.
The best verse I can think of for this matter is Titus 3:3-5:
"For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost, which he shed on us abundantly".
Paul of course, speaks of our former spiritual condition, then on God's Love & Kindness shown to sinful man (via the Gospel), and finally, that man could never save himself or make himself right before God, but could ONLY BE SAVED because of God's Mercy toward him. And how was his salvation effected? By 'regeneration' and by 'renewal', through the Holy Ghost.
If this sinner was first regenerated, so he could repent, respond, or approach God for salvation, then why would he need to do these things, for he was already regenerated & renewed by the Holy Ghost? And this question I had just posed to David0921. So, regeneration to me equates to re-birth, for I can't perceive that a regenerative Work of God is any less than that. If anything, as stated in another post of mine, I see the 'convicting, drawing, compelling' Work of the Holy Spirit urging the unregenerated soul - but this I wouldn't consider as a regenerative work. Thanks for your input here.
Thank you, Jesus shamed the leaders of Jerusalem about traditions, Matthew 15:3 and we are told in Colossians 2:8. My understanding is when we believe in our heart that Jesus is the Son of God and the only way to salvation we are justified by God's grace, Romans 3:24 and being baptized is being obedient to God's word, being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: We then start the road to sanctification by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost, Titus 3:5.
Jesus Christ has done everything necessary for our salvation and all we do we do in is name including being baptized, Colossians 3:17. He paid the penalty that our sins deserved by His sacrificial death on the cross. His death satisfied God's justice and turned away His wrath from us. God calls us but we must answer we must believe and be obedient to Him to be chosen, Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
When we are baptized in the Name of Jesus we have put on Christ, Galatians 3:27. Being baptized is obedience, Ephesians 2:102 Thessalonians 1:8, every believer who has opportunity will be baptized in obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ. Baptism is the result of salvation, not the means to it.
Our obedience strengthens our faith, obedience shows our love for God, and our obedience to God's word is essential and it is not works. Those who are obedient are imitators of Christ and are willingly submitting to the authority, His will, and the word of God.
Having gone to some lengths in discussing subjects such as Predestination and things related to this subject I thought I would
present some logic to consider this concept. A primary idea that I have discussed elsewhere is related to Galatians 2:20. To live in new life necessitates a DEATH blow to our old self. If not then we are still trying to do things in our own strength; and since we cannot save ourselves (see Titus 3:5) there is no way to please God in the flesh. Clearly this doesn't spell the end of our struggles on earth; as Paul states in Romans 7:23. Interestingly; he mentions the word "law" in regard to both the pull of the flesh that remains AND that of the Spirit of God; we see similar verses describing war between the desires of the flesh and that of the Spirit in Galatians 5:17.
Serving the Lord; therefore must be out of the love and resulting obedience in God. It has to surpass our human desires; no matter how noble they may seem. It counters our own loves and hates and brings us into conformity with Christ through the Spirit so that we can especially LOVE our ENEMIES which is not possible in the same way with our flesh. We could conceivably
tolerate a wicked man or be in submission out of fear but not seek his deliverance and serve selflessly expecting nothing in return in our own strength. As I have stated in other posts as well we also warn the wicked of their calamity; and that includes all those who seemingly are kind and compassionate; FRIENDS and enemies as well. As showing love toward mean people is impossible; we also have to warn those who seem like "good people" as well; despite our flesh trying to make our relationship with them (wife; husband; mother; father or best friend) seem to somehow absolve them from the fate of all of the rest of mankind.
So in this posting I am stating that our works (i.e. good fruits) as well as thoughts and what we say display whether He is truly in us.
A new life is initiated by a new birth and we find that when we accept Christ as our Lord and savior.
The dawning of spring is a vivid reminder of Christian truths about new birth, new beginnings, and resurrection.
Jesus said,
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God"
( John 3:3).
Our life is fruitless without the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit.
When we come to faith in Jesus, the Spirit of God comes to live in us, sealing us as God's own adopted children, guaranteeing us a future inheritance ( Rom. 8:16; Gal. 4:4-7; Eph. 1:13-14; Titus 3:4-7).
He also gives us the power to do the good works that pleases God and produce fruit.
Have you been born again by placing your faith in Christ alone? Do you love God? Have His peace in your heart? Love His people? Hunger and thirst for righteousness? Desire to serve Him and share the life-changing news of the gospel with others? These are just a few signs that you may have been born twice! One physically, one spiritually.
While we are thankful for the new, secure birth in Christ, we should also be thankful for the new beginnings.
Even though we are children of God, we still strugglewithsin, and when we do, we do not need to get saved all over again, we are His children forever.
However, because of our sins, our relationship isn't where it should be and we need to be reconciled to Him, having our sins forgiven so that our fellowship, "that oneness can be restored.
Our relationship with Him is restored when, in prayer, we confess our sins to Him. 1 John 1:9.
Thanks Giannis for sharing in this. I can agree to Romans 8:29, " that he might be the firstborn among many brethren"; that clearly 'prototokos' here refers to Christ being our 'Forerunner' leading those who are saved by His Blood, into the new Birth He has provided for us; i.e. we follow Jesus, Who is the Firstborn among us.
Yet, with Colossians 1:15, "the firstborn of every creature" (or, creation), doesn't seem to imply that believers are the object; though you (or, your Church) feels it does: "that first born of all creation means that Jesus was the first child of God among all other born(again) children (us, God's children)". It's interesting that 'creation' is used here, which doesn't seem to easily bring Christ's Church into its meaning.
That was interesting about the usage of 'arche', that it could be applied to rulers, principalities, etc. I checked your reference Revelation 3:14, and though the application of 'arche' is defined as "that by which anything begins to be, the origin, active cause", your other references ( Colossians 1:16 & Ephesians 3:10) certainly apply to 'principalities/rulers'. And other references are given in support of this: Luke 12:11, Titus 3:1, Ephesians 1:21, Colossians 2:10, & others. So thank you for giving us more to consider in this matter.
Hi Valmar. Thanks for addressing my question & I do agree with you on the incomprehensible Work of the Spirit in giving healing, exhortation, etc. What I was looking for pertains to your subject, viz. a believer's eternal security. And also to a comment you made, "the ability to lose one's salvation rests completely with that individual".
The way I understand the Scriptures, is that if we have the ability, or power, to lose/relinquish our salvation, then it presents questions not only to the Spirit's Work in saving a lost soul, but also the power we have to over-ride what the Spirit has done in our lives. Clearly, you believe that a saved sinner can either choose to depart Christ or to remain faithful to Him. My question then is: is it in the new spiritual make-up of the one now found 'in Christ' to ever desire to leave the One Who has delivered Him from so great a penalty & given him a new life with peace, joy & hope? Here, I'm not referring to a saved soul who through negligence or appeal of the flesh or Satan, strays & toys with the world. I'm confident if that soul is saved, then the Spirit will not let him go; and Momsage shared an apt testimony of this very work of God in her & her husband.
So to my question, I believe the more relevant Work of the Holy Spirit in one's life is that: He Convicts man of his sin ( John 16:8-11); He Regenerates, or gives re-birth to the penitent sinner ( John 3:3-7, Titus 3:5, 2 Corinthians 5:17, 1 John 2:29); He Indwells ( 1 Corinthians 6:19, Romans 5:5, John 14:16); He Baptizes ( 1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:5); and He Seals ( 2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30). I'm sure you're conversant with these Scriptures, showing that salvation & securing is all of God, without any contribution from man. To Page 2.
May the LORD give us wisdom in reading, studying and applying HIS word.
2 Timothy 2:15
James 2:
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Romans 4:
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Titus 3:
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
May we be intercessors in CHRIST name, Isaiah 59:16, for those who have been blinded by the god of this world, 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4.
We are called to stand in the gap for others, Ezekiel 22:30, and plant the seed of the word that others may water and that GOD will give the increase.
Acts 15:
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
So, Richard, I realize that most people have no interest in what I 've shared. But I have found researching this about our families to be very interesting, especially to discover how many were believers and their willingness to leave the comforts of manors in England to be settlers in a new land for the English; and, with my family, to come from Europe to homestead and work the land to produce needed crops for the market and to support their families. My family was generally poor with no known nobility or people of significance historically, yet, here we are, my husband and I from two very different family backgrounds making a new family background that differs from that of our pasts. God has had His hand on us and our ancestors to bring us to one another in faith and love.
Beyond what I have shared, I really have never had much interest in discovering the past of our families, but now that I have some good information, I am glad that I did this. We all have a family history, much like the people in the Bible. In every family there is good and bad that is done and that happens to family members, blessings and curses, as Deut. tells us. But God know s the beginning from the end and in the end, our pedigree or history means nothing in terms of our reward in Christ. But I think we all have something to learn from history, whether our own, our countries, world, or the history set forth in the Bible.
I am well aware of Titus 3:9 says about avoiding foolish questions and genealogies and contentions, and strivings about the law, for they are unprofitable and vain. And because of this verse I have avoided doing genealogical research. However, I do not think this is talking about knowing one's genealogy (that was necessary to prove your Israelite heritage, especially one from Judah or Levi), but in the context here it is speaking about using one's genealogy to prove any sort of status in any circumstance. It just doesn't matter for believers as it does not merit us.
I agree with you, sharing the gospel with as many as we can.
I do not think Russia will intervene they are depleted with their war in Ukraine, there may be a few nuclear bombs, but we know this world is not destroyed by nuclear war. Iran is already in it, whether the other militant groups join in is the big question. The U. S. with all the ammo and supplies they have given to Ukraine and have not replaced our supplies plus what they will give to Israel I would not be surprised if China makes their move.
End times have many interpretations, some things that have already been fulfilled are looked for to be in the future. Many are looking for an antichrist when we see there is not one but there are three in Revelations, Rev. 12,13. I feel people are looking for things that are not coming like the Church being taken to heaven when there is not one verse in the Bible that says we are going to or we are taken to heaven. The earth is for man, this earth, and the new earth. It says those who are worthy will reign on earth not heaven, 2 Tim. 2:12Rev. 5:10
There will be those in the first resurrection that will meet Jesus in the air on His way down to earth, (the world is round) Matt. 24:31Mark 13:27 After the tribulation, it does not say He then goes back up to heaven.
We see that on that day His feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, and also Jesus along with the 144000 first fruits will stand on Mount Zion/Sion the mountain just in front of Jerusalem. Much of the end times are tied to the world economy there is so much behind the scenes we do not see and will not see until the end starts.
Whatever comes we are told to watch, this life is not our hope, 1 Cor. 15:19, it is the one we have been promised, Titus 3:7. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints, Rev. 13:10. It will be things coming that have not been, Matt. 24:21,29. My understanding I will leave it there.
I don't advocate the studing of the letter, for these reasons,
it's takes away from Holy Spirit as our Teacher
in the Apostasy in became rely on as God definitive rule to know Him
it has become a form of knowledge without the power,
in man's ungenerated nature, he going to naturally reject the suffering of picking up the Cross & denying self.
Yet, he deceives himself by thinking he can still follow Christ. Pacifying himself with wearing the cross around his neck, along with his beloved sins in his heart.
With that being said, an a added encouragement it can be a help while we"re in our weaker state, if Holy Spirit is our Teacher & Guide who will lead us into all Truth, again emphasising The Living Word of God heard in our heart, Grace appearance. John 1:9
In Titus 3:5 "washing of regeneration & renewing in the Holy Spirit" define as
(spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act), i.e. (figuratively) spiritual renovation; specially, Messianic restoration --"moral renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better" effected in baptism, Commonly, however, the word denotes the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as the renewal or restoration of life after death.
The death speaking of here is Rom 6:3-6 the consummation of Matt 3:12 being raise in the newness of His Life, "ye must be born again"
I rejoice to read & understand more from the thoughts of your heart, the inner workings of God's Spirit within, the sincerity, humility, earnestness & simplicity in which you endeavors to love & obey the Lord. Thank you for sharing yourself.
Yes God knew, but in all fairness, Adam must have had also the opportunity to obey as we ourselves now have.
You description of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience is accurate, but lets finish the verse, "sprinkling of the Blood/Life of Jesus, For His life is in the Blood Lev 17:11,14 it not only cleanses but implants the Divine nature. As we continue steadfastly exercising of the doctrines of Christ, I'm speaking of Grace appearance "the hearing the living Word of God, that's near us even in our heart & in our mouth, the word of Faith that Paul preach, here the power of Life is felt & known, not letter learning. 2Cor 3:6
Sanctification "making holy" is describe in Titus 3:5 unto the new creature, being born again by this Incorruptible Seed.
The Light, conforms & transforms unto Himself, in which there is no darkness at all. Eph5:8 "were" past tense.
The resurrection life is reveal here & now, in ever increasing measures in sanctification work, & is consummated by being baptized in the Holy Spirit, revealed also as being baptize unto His death Rom 6:3-6 the life of the born-again/new creature is the walking in the newness of the resurrection Life of Christ were one is seal & gather to the Gardener, where self is seen no more, its not I but Christ.
There's two stages we may attain to in our growth in Grace/Life
Reaching the state of Adam innocents before he fell, where if not diligent/watchful we maybe ensnared again , Yet if one continues as mention in the exercising of the Grace of God, one will be baptizes by the Holy Spirit, "the threshing floor, (our hearts) thoroughly purge". We're born again, dead unto sin, alive & in union with Christ & the Father John 17:21-23 here & now!
In Rom 6 Holy Spirit describes the certainty of God expectation of not continuing in sin & reveals the working of Grace as the divine power to accomplish the command. Peter says, God gives His Grace to the humble, meekness of heart, lowliness of mind is the pathway to receiving the power of Grace that we desperately need & it is Merciful kindness of God who will work this within us if we acknowledge the Truth about ourselves concerning growing in godliness, Jesus says, "without me you can do nothing". A love for God must be cutivated, for faith worketh by love & Gal 3:2 so obedience to the hearing of the Word of God "Grace" in our hearts we receive ever increasing measures of His Spirit, this is the faith that purifies the heart & will eventually be held in a pure conscience in the working out of our perfect salvation.
In Rom 7 Holy Spirit reveals the interworking of Paul struggles, now that He found himself without the righteousness of the law, now having to die to this self efforts, what a struggle he had. At the end of 7 Holy Spirit starts to open to us, the Righteousness that is by faith, the hearing of the Word of God in the heart. the Grace of God that appears to all mankind bringing salvation Rom 7:25 picking up the Cross & denying the motions of the carnal minded flesh. Rom 8:2 reveals His Grace is the Law, & goes on to declare Rom 8:14 Revealing 1John 3:6, abiding in His Grace/Spirit/Light/Cross. For the Spirit of God will never lead us into sin. As we continue in the exercise of Grace, putting Christ on, 2Cor 4:6 we're in the working of Titus 3:51Pet 1:2 unto the new creature, Col 3:10 where 2Cor 5:17. Rom 8:29 reveals this sonship, the divine nature implanted being Rom 8:15-17 & in Him there is no sin or 1John 1:5,6 we're sinless
All a free gift from our Father, yet must be appropriated by Faith, God causing us to will do of His good pleasure, for His own Name sake. Ezekiel 36:21-23Isa 55:3
I don't see where the verses you referenced conflict in any way with what I said or the verses I quoted.
If God has "saved" us, i.e. we have become Born Again, we will ENDURE TO THE END. We will have an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to the Law of God and we will more and more turn away from sin in our life; not in order that God will "save" us, but because we have a "want to" in our Soul to obey Him.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Then God will COMPLETE our Salvation at the Last Day when we receive our Resurrected Spiritual Bodies.
Here are some other verses for your consideration:
John 3:3-8 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Thank you.! For typing these verses helping us to win the lost to Jesus & be 'Reborn/Saved by Repenting. Awesome.! Bless you.
Yet to clarify for those that are new: 1 Peter 3:21, (as goes w/a few other verses suchas John 3:3-21, 12:43-50 & Titus 3:5. "To be born again/saved after repenting is *except Christ as Lord, believe in His DBR & therefore being in His spirit as one by Gods grace & it is thru this, that we are saved*, which is the ONLY thing getting us to heaven.! NOTHING else is needed.!
Referance of being baptised 'of' (not 'in') water is of the mothers womb for God being ALL OMNI- knew man would some day try & duplicate His creation. (As man is now). BEFORE Christ DBR there was water baptism. Spititual baptistm is when one chooses (Gods freewill, not forced) to repent excepting His DBR as truth in their heart.! Wolves in sheep clothing may lead them to Christ yet God will guide them to His truth in His time for His purpose.
Water baptism is merely an outword show of our salvation for others to help hold us accountable. We can be comforted w/His peace that passes ALL understanding if we continually seek His word. We'll go through trials till He knows if we're strong enough in His wisdom to complete His way for us.! Did the thief nx to Jesus come down from the cross, get baptised & placed bk up to die? No, Christ knew his heart was sincere, forgave him instantly, of his sins & said "today you shall be with me in paradise".! No water needed.!
As for " 1 Cor 14, Yes tongues Is a gift for some (NOT entire congregation) from God or at times were 2-3 (no more) gather (again HE knows their heart so to do so w/out an interpreter in anyother situation is blasphemy). Only truly believing His DBR will get us eternity in heaven.
John 3:15-21 (Christ own words). Doesn't say 'believe in me & do this or that'. The period after Everlasting life.
the expression of the Scrip implies obedience,, for Matt 7:21 to enter His works that's been prepared for us from the foundation of the world. Ephesians 2:10 which is these works of righteousness of Titus 3:5 that comes to us by His mercy towards us.
What are His works, the first is 'repentance" God Spirit work upon one soul, convincing one of their sins, which springs from the spirit of unbelief, that comes from the devil, his influnece upon one's heart, & keeps one in his kingdom of disobedience & all who plead for sin & are convince we're not to be delivered from it in this life is of the devil, are deluded, deceived & believe a lie,
2 Thessalonians 2:11 their faith is a life & why? Because they did not choose to become lovers of the Truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:10,11
I could go on with this vein of Truth that's Scriptural sound, with sound reasoning. His Spirit Witness in your own hearts witnesses to the Truth that's being reveal. the question is will you receive Him?
Friends, for the love of your eternal souls, & for the love of Christ soften your heart by Jeremiah 4:3 thorns, the corruptible seed of the devil & Hosea 10:12 the free gift, the Word of Righteousness, the incorruptible Seed of Rom 5:17 & receive Him
There is no earn salvation, in being obedient to God commands.
Obedient does show our love for Him, according to Scrip
Believing, loving & obedience go hand in hand, it's the proof of having one of the other, aligns us with the whole of Scripture to all those who walk in the faith of Abraham James 2:18-24
Titus 3:5
States to those who believe, there are works of righteousness to be done, that all may see & glorify our Father who is in heaven. Matt 5:16
Yet, it's not by these works that we are being saved, but by His Mercy, Who causes us by His Spirit influence upon our hearts to will & do of His good pleasure & His good pleasure is to love Him, become obedient, which shows itself forth as these works of righteousness.
1Pet 1:22 Seeing ye have purify your souls in obeying the Truth, states obedient purifies us by 1Pet 1:23 by hearing & becoming obedient to the incorruptible Word of God that lives & abides forever is how we become born again.
This is the working out of our salvation with fear & trembling, the sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience, stating the progressional work of "washing of regeneration & renewing in the Holy Spirit" bringing us unto obedience. & sprinkling of the Blood/Life of Jesus in our hearts that cleanses & purges out not only the sin, but the evil one from our heart, who influence us to sin.
Folks, the very essence of the Salvation is obedience, & one must learn obedience, eventually bringing us to become holy, blameless, unreproachable & acceptable in His Sight. Col 1:22
Hebrews 5:9 states there must be obedience to be born again, & Jesus becomes the Author of their eternal salvation
Again, it's only by His merciful loving kindness that we are empower to these works of righteousness, which conforms us into the Image of the Obedient One. Rom 8:29 Who always did those things that pleases the Father John 8:29John 14:31
He's our Example, lets pick up the cross & follow Jesus, His Spirit Rom 8:2
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
I believe that the search for truth is but the honest searching out of what interferes with truth, and that truth must be true throughout if it be true. It cannot contradict itself, nor be in some parts uncertain and others sure.
I also believe everyone on this site, with very few exceptions, genuinely desires to understand truth and draw nearer to God. Perhaps I come off contentious , and seemingly ask foolish questions. One may consider being careful though, not to use Titus 3:9 as a tool to possibly make people seem or feel foolish because of their questions which one may have mistakenly judged as contentious. How can one be certain this is not an opportunity provided by the Holy Spirit to lovingly lead another towards God's perfect love and healing.
I've been reading and contemplating the Bible off and on for well over fifty years, and yet I still reluctantly find myself perceiving conflict within it. I've spent too many years in church and in fear of asking these questions I would like solid answers to. I would like nothing more than to have the Bible make perfect sense to me. If you or anyone doesn't want to, or CAN"T convincingly answer my seemingly foolish questions and/or comments within what I would consider a simple dialogue, I'm ok with it.
For the majority of my life I have consistently genuinely asked the Holy Spirit for truth according to the One and Only God of Perfect Love. I don't see myself as special in this sense, as I'm certain most of us here desire and ask this in their own way.
With respect One eighty, you are taking your 'rationale' too far away from what has been presented to you by both others here and me.
I believe Richard H Priday provided another good example of answering your question where he said:
"God did create hell as well; but originally it was meant for the Devil and his angels. ( Matt. 25:41). Clearly; men enter in there because they are following their master; namely Satan rather than God. Therefore; all things work out for the good for those who love God ( Romans 8:28); but conversely; there is no peace for the wicked ( Isaiah 48:22; other passages)."
For you to reject these Bible-based 'Contrasts' depicted in the Bible to then ask questions like:
- Would you agree that whenever Light enters darkness, the darkness is abolished?
- If yes, then if God is darkness as He is Light, then He must be capable of abolishing Himself.
- Light abolishes darkness merely by showing us the darkness is not there. If this is true and God is responsible and the Source for both Light and darkness, then He would literally abolish Himself into non existence.
COMMENT: It seems your desire is to enter into "...foolish questions...and contentions" that I am not prepared to enter into on the following basis:
"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." ( Titus 3:9)
Sorry, One eighty, but I m trying to be helpful here and not offensive.
Is it not a fruit of the Spirit given once one IS saved?
SO WHAT IS THIS SAYING?
To get the context you have to pick it up the from John 13 on through John 14:23.
John 13:34-35.
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
BY THIS SHALL ALL MEN KNOW THAT YE ARE MY DISCIPLES, if ye have love one to another.
Jesus taught that those who follow Him will show love for the brothern ( John 13:12-15, 34).
That is the primary sign of faith to the outside world ( John 13:35). Here, he indicates that obedience to His command is the primary sign of our love for Him.
A person cannot claim to know Christ and hate other Christians
1 John 4:20.
Proceeding from John 14:15 on thru John 14:16-23 Jesus is telling them he was going and sending them the Holyspirit that will guide them.
Throughout this section, a person's love for Christ, their obedience to His teachings, and the indwelling of the Spirit are intertwined
All the law hangs on this.
Matthew 23:37-40.
AND THE MINISTRATION OF THE LAW COULDN'T PRODUCE THIS.
2 Corinthians 3:8-11 concedes that regeneration by the gift of the Holyspirit in those who believe in Christ exceeds the ministration of the law.
"How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of THE GLORY THAT EXCELLETH.
FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINETH IS GLORIOUS.
Jesus Christ. The Word of Faith, believing that it was indeed Christ fulfilling His Father command to shine within our heart/conscience. The still small Voice that reproof us of evil thoughts, words or deeds. This is the true Light, John 1:9; Grace is the law of Rom 8:2; he obey it from Rom 6:17,18; it make us free Rom 6:22; Holy writ says, Rom 6:14,15; the word used is shall, not should, it's a positive assertion, a confident & forceful statement of fact. Holy Spirit states it twice here, along with other strong assertions to the same end. Rom 6:1,2; Rom 6:6,7; Rom 6:11-13;
You say "we have been join to Christ" only when we have been perfected by the working of Grace, which is indeed being dead unto sin, as you stated "Paul is saying recognize that sin has no rule/dominion over you" meaning you don't have to sin no more. For Grace teaches us the Cross, the power of God unto salvation. The body is just a vessel animated by the spirit & soul, become John 3:5 & Rom 12:1 & the body will be animated & be led by Holy Spirit. Yet for all this, it is safe to say the body of flesh still bare the consequences of the fall, but in the next life we're to received new bodies, like unto His glorious body. Halleluiah!
3. 1 John 3:1-9, yes indeed, after the working of Grace in the 1 Pet 1:2; Titus 3:5 being born again by receiving 1Pet 1:23 unto the new Creature, created in Col 3:10;
Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.
I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;
Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;
As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.
Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.
This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;
It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;
Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.
Thank you for sharing that Jesse, I will add that to the list. It indeed says "he saved us" past tense in Titus 3:5.
But two verses later in Titus 3:7 it says we "should be made heirs" and "hope of eternal life". That now returns to an outcome waiting to be determined. Hope of eternal life is a future thing hoped for usually in the future, not present or past, and should be made heirs is also looking to the future.
"That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." Titus 3:7 KJV
One possible explanation to reconcile this with the other verses like 1 Peter 1:13, 1 Peter 1:51, Phil 2:12, 2 Timothy 1:12 is that the statement of Jesus saving us is true and universally available for all of humanity. However on an individual level it still seems it depends on someone's choices- whether someone chooses to follow Jesus or not. The Bible already says most won't choose this and most will go to hell Matthew 7:13. So when it says "he saved us" combined with that context, maybe that is a general statement that Jesus died to save all of us, but we still must choose to follow Him and accept that hope of eternal life. This is currently what these verses are seeming like.
So, the list now has 3 verses supporting the already saved idea compared to those about a future salvation. Does anyone have more?
If one decide to minister on this site he has the freedom to do so.
If one decide not to minister he has the freedom to do so.
If one decide to treat this community as a round table he has that freedom and if one takes the word of God to be handed serious he had that freedom.
Freedom goes on and if it's freedom you want, give it and expect it from everyone including me.
I'm not giving my opinion, I'm repeating what they have literally said out their own mouth!
If the accusation is false that's one thing but if it's true and is as easy as asking them, feel freely to do so.
In other words ask them directly and they should tell you directly that which they have said "We will be Gods and the Gospel which we preach is man made.
If it don't bother you when they say it don't let it bother you when I repeat it.
This is a King James site and what's written in it tells us to mark such a person.
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17.
Galatians 1:8-9.
Titus 3:10.
2 John 1:10-11.
Sometimes it's easier to know what the bible says than to do what it says.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness that we have done,..but acccording to his mercy and the washing and regeneration ( multiplication) of his Seed HE SAVED US....He wants to sow his precious seed in our hearts so as to multiply himself in humanity. the field is the world....Being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the word of God that liveth and abideth forever....The living word that new covenant, That book that he wrote with his own blood at Calvary the words of life....There is only 1 yardstick and thats the fruit that comes from his precious seed sown in our hearts which is a baby Christ the H.G. .That which is born of the spirit is spirit which is the H.G. our new heart and new spirit....Nothin availeth any thing in Christ Jesus but that new creature which is the H.G. That Child of Promise....Which is our fruit unto God via his good seed....The seed of the sower.....1st the Child the H.G. Then the son the H.G....Then the fulness of the Godhead in us the H.G....The Kingdom....3 MEASURES The woman in Rev. 12:10 Does not receive the Kingdom till she births the manchild....As Jesus said unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there n..Indicative of a heavenly Birth of a baby Christ in us which is the H.G. THE CHILD OF PROMISE....Thats y he has to know us....He wants to regenerate himself in humanity....Thats y he is saying whosoever receiveth one such child in my name RECEIVETH ME..The Child is the H.G. As that which is born of the spirit is spirit thats the H.G. the Child of Promise....The H.G. is that Child of Promise....As the great promise was i will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven....Thus the babes and sucklings that can worship God with a perfect Praise that are gonna be born in us....Our new heart and new spirit via his good seed the living word....They don't call him the bridegroom for nothin....He has a seed to sow in humanity....Thats y Jeremiah saw all men in travail and birth pains....Jere 30:6
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."- Titus 3:5.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."- Eph. 2:8,9.
"Without shedding of blood is no remission."- Hebrews 9:22.
"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly."- Romans 5:6.
"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."- Isa. 53:6.
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."- I Peter 1:18,19.
"For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."- Rom. 6:23.
Dear sinner, remember that church membership will not save you. If you have been baptized, that cannot save you. Baptism does not save, does not keep anybody saved. It is only an act of duty for those who have already found Christ as their Saviour.
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?"- Romans 10:13,14.
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
COME LORD JESUS
There are many denominations out there and many are filled with the wisdom of man with I am right, and you are wrong, not love. Salvation is in the simplicity that is in Christ that is with faith and prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, in the Bible you will find the truth.
Romans 10:8-11 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Is being baptized in water in the name of Jesus in the Bible? Acts 2:38 Romans 6:3-4 and more. Is being baptized with the Holy Ghost/Spirit in the Bible? 1 Corinthians 12:13 Titus 3:5 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 and more. Does one come before the other, not necessarily, Acts 10:45-48, but the sealing of the Holy Ghost/Spirit in us is a must, Romans 8:11, read all of 8.
We must work out our salvation, Philippians 2:12, we will stand in judgment accountable for ourselves, what different denominations say will not acquit us. It is a lifetime journey, love and obedience are a must, Romans 6:16.
God bless you and God bless your journey He will always be with you and lift you up, John 16:13 1 Corinthians 16:23-24.
RLW
I think what we are grappling with here, is the word, 'regeneration'. I understand you believe that 'regeneration' can happen at any time to the one who is 'elected to salvation' to enable him to come to salvation. Whereas, the word 'regenerate' to me means 're-birth', and not simply an awakening or displaying some propensity towards spiritual things. I'm sorry if I've not properly grasped your meaning, but that's what I gather.
The best verse I can think of for this matter is Titus 3:3-5:
"For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost, which he shed on us abundantly".
Paul of course, speaks of our former spiritual condition, then on God's Love & Kindness shown to sinful man (via the Gospel), and finally, that man could never save himself or make himself right before God, but could ONLY BE SAVED because of God's Mercy toward him. And how was his salvation effected? By 'regeneration' and by 'renewal', through the Holy Ghost.
If this sinner was first regenerated, so he could repent, respond, or approach God for salvation, then why would he need to do these things, for he was already regenerated & renewed by the Holy Ghost? And this question I had just posed to David0921. So, regeneration to me equates to re-birth, for I can't perceive that a regenerative Work of God is any less than that. If anything, as stated in another post of mine, I see the 'convicting, drawing, compelling' Work of the Holy Spirit urging the unregenerated soul - but this I wouldn't consider as a regenerative work. Thanks for your input here.
Thank you, Jesus shamed the leaders of Jerusalem about traditions, Matthew 15:3 and we are told in Colossians 2:8. My understanding is when we believe in our heart that Jesus is the Son of God and the only way to salvation we are justified by God's grace, Romans 3:24 and being baptized is being obedient to God's word, being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: We then start the road to sanctification by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost, Titus 3:5.
Jesus Christ has done everything necessary for our salvation and all we do we do in is name including being baptized, Colossians 3:17. He paid the penalty that our sins deserved by His sacrificial death on the cross. His death satisfied God's justice and turned away His wrath from us. God calls us but we must answer we must believe and be obedient to Him to be chosen, Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
When we are baptized in the Name of Jesus we have put on Christ, Galatians 3:27. Being baptized is obedience, Ephesians 2:10 2 Thessalonians 1:8, every believer who has opportunity will be baptized in obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ. Baptism is the result of salvation, not the means to it.
Our obedience strengthens our faith, obedience shows our love for God, and our obedience to God's word is essential and it is not works. Those who are obedient are imitators of Christ and are willingly submitting to the authority, His will, and the word of God.
God bless,
RLW
Having gone to some lengths in discussing subjects such as Predestination and things related to this subject I thought I would
present some logic to consider this concept. A primary idea that I have discussed elsewhere is related to Galatians 2:20. To live in new life necessitates a DEATH blow to our old self. If not then we are still trying to do things in our own strength; and since we cannot save ourselves (see Titus 3:5) there is no way to please God in the flesh. Clearly this doesn't spell the end of our struggles on earth; as Paul states in Romans 7:23. Interestingly; he mentions the word "law" in regard to both the pull of the flesh that remains AND that of the Spirit of God; we see similar verses describing war between the desires of the flesh and that of the Spirit in Galatians 5:17.
Serving the Lord; therefore must be out of the love and resulting obedience in God. It has to surpass our human desires; no matter how noble they may seem. It counters our own loves and hates and brings us into conformity with Christ through the Spirit so that we can especially LOVE our ENEMIES which is not possible in the same way with our flesh. We could conceivably
tolerate a wicked man or be in submission out of fear but not seek his deliverance and serve selflessly expecting nothing in return in our own strength. As I have stated in other posts as well we also warn the wicked of their calamity; and that includes all those who seemingly are kind and compassionate; FRIENDS and enemies as well. As showing love toward mean people is impossible; we also have to warn those who seem like "good people" as well; despite our flesh trying to make our relationship with them (wife; husband; mother; father or best friend) seem to somehow absolve them from the fate of all of the rest of mankind.
So in this posting I am stating that our works (i.e. good fruits) as well as thoughts and what we say display whether He is truly in us.
A new life is initiated by a new birth and we find that when we accept Christ as our Lord and savior.
The dawning of spring is a vivid reminder of Christian truths about new birth, new beginnings, and resurrection.
Jesus said,
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God"
( John 3:3).
Our life is fruitless without the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit.
When we come to faith in Jesus, the Spirit of God comes to live in us, sealing us as God's own adopted children, guaranteeing us a future inheritance ( Rom. 8:16; Gal. 4:4-7; Eph. 1:13-14; Titus 3:4-7).
He also gives us the power to do the good works that pleases God and produce fruit.
Have you been born again by placing your faith in Christ alone? Do you love God? Have His peace in your heart? Love His people? Hunger and thirst for righteousness? Desire to serve Him and share the life-changing news of the gospel with others? These are just a few signs that you may have been born twice! One physically, one spiritually.
While we are thankful for the new, secure birth in Christ, we should also be thankful for the new beginnings.
Even though we are children of God, we still strugglewithsin, and when we do, we do not need to get saved all over again, we are His children forever.
However, because of our sins, our relationship isn't where it should be and we need to be reconciled to Him, having our sins forgiven so that our fellowship, "that oneness can be restored.
Our relationship with Him is restored when, in prayer, we confess our sins to Him. 1 John 1:9.
God bless.
Yet, with Colossians 1:15, "the firstborn of every creature" (or, creation), doesn't seem to imply that believers are the object; though you (or, your Church) feels it does: "that first born of all creation means that Jesus was the first child of God among all other born(again) children (us, God's children)". It's interesting that 'creation' is used here, which doesn't seem to easily bring Christ's Church into its meaning.
That was interesting about the usage of 'arche', that it could be applied to rulers, principalities, etc. I checked your reference Revelation 3:14, and though the application of 'arche' is defined as "that by which anything begins to be, the origin, active cause", your other references ( Colossians 1:16 & Ephesians 3:10) certainly apply to 'principalities/rulers'. And other references are given in support of this: Luke 12:11, Titus 3:1, Ephesians 1:21, Colossians 2:10, & others. So thank you for giving us more to consider in this matter.
Hi Valmar. Thanks for addressing my question & I do agree with you on the incomprehensible Work of the Spirit in giving healing, exhortation, etc. What I was looking for pertains to your subject, viz. a believer's eternal security. And also to a comment you made, "the ability to lose one's salvation rests completely with that individual".
The way I understand the Scriptures, is that if we have the ability, or power, to lose/relinquish our salvation, then it presents questions not only to the Spirit's Work in saving a lost soul, but also the power we have to over-ride what the Spirit has done in our lives. Clearly, you believe that a saved sinner can either choose to depart Christ or to remain faithful to Him. My question then is: is it in the new spiritual make-up of the one now found 'in Christ' to ever desire to leave the One Who has delivered Him from so great a penalty & given him a new life with peace, joy & hope? Here, I'm not referring to a saved soul who through negligence or appeal of the flesh or Satan, strays & toys with the world. I'm confident if that soul is saved, then the Spirit will not let him go; and Momsage shared an apt testimony of this very work of God in her & her husband.
So to my question, I believe the more relevant Work of the Holy Spirit in one's life is that: He Convicts man of his sin ( John 16:8-11); He Regenerates, or gives re-birth to the penitent sinner ( John 3:3-7, Titus 3:5, 2 Corinthians 5:17, 1 John 2:29); He Indwells ( 1 Corinthians 6:19, Romans 5:5, John 14:16); He Baptizes ( 1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:5); and He Seals ( 2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30). I'm sure you're conversant with these Scriptures, showing that salvation & securing is all of God, without any contribution from man. To Page 2.
I appreciate what you have said here.
I also believe that the Word teaches that the Holy Spirit is the one who regenerates us through the washing of the word.
( Titus 3:5)
He sanctifies us ( John 17:5) ( Romans 15:16) He gives us life (6:63)
The Spirit puts to death the works of sin in us ( Romans 8:13)
He baptizes us into Christ ( 1 Cor. 12:13)
The Spirit gives us access to the Father ( Eph. 2:18)
He teaches us. ( John 14:26)
There are many more things that Scriptures say about what the Spirit does in and for us.
2 Timothy 2:15
James 2:
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Romans 4:
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Titus 3:
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
May we be intercessors in CHRIST name, Isaiah 59:16, for those who have been blinded by the god of this world, 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4.
We are called to stand in the gap for others, Ezekiel 22:30, and plant the seed of the word that others may water and that GOD will give the increase.
Acts 15:
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Salvation is by faith in CHRIST alone.
GOD bless everyone!
Beyond what I have shared, I really have never had much interest in discovering the past of our families, but now that I have some good information, I am glad that I did this. We all have a family history, much like the people in the Bible. In every family there is good and bad that is done and that happens to family members, blessings and curses, as Deut. tells us. But God know s the beginning from the end and in the end, our pedigree or history means nothing in terms of our reward in Christ. But I think we all have something to learn from history, whether our own, our countries, world, or the history set forth in the Bible.
I am well aware of Titus 3:9 says about avoiding foolish questions and genealogies and contentions, and strivings about the law, for they are unprofitable and vain. And because of this verse I have avoided doing genealogical research. However, I do not think this is talking about knowing one's genealogy (that was necessary to prove your Israelite heritage, especially one from Judah or Levi), but in the context here it is speaking about using one's genealogy to prove any sort of status in any circumstance. It just doesn't matter for believers as it does not merit us.
I agree with you, sharing the gospel with as many as we can.
I do not think Russia will intervene they are depleted with their war in Ukraine, there may be a few nuclear bombs, but we know this world is not destroyed by nuclear war. Iran is already in it, whether the other militant groups join in is the big question. The U. S. with all the ammo and supplies they have given to Ukraine and have not replaced our supplies plus what they will give to Israel I would not be surprised if China makes their move.
End times have many interpretations, some things that have already been fulfilled are looked for to be in the future. Many are looking for an antichrist when we see there is not one but there are three in Revelations, Rev. 12,13. I feel people are looking for things that are not coming like the Church being taken to heaven when there is not one verse in the Bible that says we are going to or we are taken to heaven. The earth is for man, this earth, and the new earth. It says those who are worthy will reign on earth not heaven, 2 Tim. 2:12 Rev. 5:10
There will be those in the first resurrection that will meet Jesus in the air on His way down to earth, (the world is round) Matt. 24:31 Mark 13:27 After the tribulation, it does not say He then goes back up to heaven.
We see that on that day His feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives, Zechariah 14:4, and also Jesus along with the 144000 first fruits will stand on Mount Zion/Sion the mountain just in front of Jerusalem. Much of the end times are tied to the world economy there is so much behind the scenes we do not see and will not see until the end starts.
Whatever comes we are told to watch, this life is not our hope, 1 Cor. 15:19, it is the one we have been promised, Titus 3:7. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints, Rev. 13:10. It will be things coming that have not been, Matt. 24:21,29. My understanding I will leave it there.
God bless,
RLW
I don't advocate the studing of the letter, for these reasons,
it's takes away from Holy Spirit as our Teacher
in the Apostasy in became rely on as God definitive rule to know Him
it has become a form of knowledge without the power,
in man's ungenerated nature, he going to naturally reject the suffering of picking up the Cross & denying self.
Yet, he deceives himself by thinking he can still follow Christ. Pacifying himself with wearing the cross around his neck, along with his beloved sins in his heart.
With that being said, an a added encouragement it can be a help while we"re in our weaker state, if Holy Spirit is our Teacher & Guide who will lead us into all Truth, again emphasising The Living Word of God heard in our heart, Grace appearance. John 1:9
In Titus 3:5 "washing of regeneration & renewing in the Holy Spirit" define as
(spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act), i.e. (figuratively) spiritual renovation; specially, Messianic restoration --"moral renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God, a radical change of mind for the better" effected in baptism, Commonly, however, the word denotes the restoration of a thing to its pristine state, its renovation, as the renewal or restoration of life after death.
The death speaking of here is Rom 6:3-6 the consummation of Matt 3:12 being raise in the newness of His Life, "ye must be born again"
Therefore 2Cor 7:1
I rejoice to read & understand more from the thoughts of your heart, the inner workings of God's Spirit within, the sincerity, humility, earnestness & simplicity in which you endeavors to love & obey the Lord. Thank you for sharing yourself.
Yes God knew, but in all fairness, Adam must have had also the opportunity to obey as we ourselves now have.
You description of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience is accurate, but lets finish the verse, "sprinkling of the Blood/Life of Jesus, For His life is in the Blood Lev 17:11,14 it not only cleanses but implants the Divine nature. As we continue steadfastly exercising of the doctrines of Christ, I'm speaking of Grace appearance "the hearing the living Word of God, that's near us even in our heart & in our mouth, the word of Faith that Paul preach, here the power of Life is felt & known, not letter learning. 2Cor 3:6
Sanctification "making holy" is describe in Titus 3:5 unto the new creature, being born again by this Incorruptible Seed.
The Light, conforms & transforms unto Himself, in which there is no darkness at all. Eph5:8 "were" past tense.
The resurrection life is reveal here & now, in ever increasing measures in sanctification work, & is consummated by being baptized in the Holy Spirit, revealed also as being baptize unto His death Rom 6:3-6 the life of the born-again/new creature is the walking in the newness of the resurrection Life of Christ were one is seal & gather to the Gardener, where self is seen no more, its not I but Christ.
There's two stages we may attain to in our growth in Grace/Life
Reaching the state of Adam innocents before he fell, where if not diligent/watchful we maybe ensnared again , Yet if one continues as mention in the exercising of the Grace of God, one will be baptizes by the Holy Spirit, "the threshing floor, (our hearts) thoroughly purge". We're born again, dead unto sin, alive & in union with Christ & the Father John 17:21-23 here & now!
Grace & Peace to you
As an encouragement to you,
In Rom 6 Holy Spirit describes the certainty of God expectation of not continuing in sin & reveals the working of Grace as the divine power to accomplish the command. Peter says, God gives His Grace to the humble, meekness of heart, lowliness of mind is the pathway to receiving the power of Grace that we desperately need & it is Merciful kindness of God who will work this within us if we acknowledge the Truth about ourselves concerning growing in godliness, Jesus says, "without me you can do nothing". A love for God must be cutivated, for faith worketh by love & Gal 3:2 so obedience to the hearing of the Word of God "Grace" in our hearts we receive ever increasing measures of His Spirit, this is the faith that purifies the heart & will eventually be held in a pure conscience in the working out of our perfect salvation.
In Rom 7 Holy Spirit reveals the interworking of Paul struggles, now that He found himself without the righteousness of the law, now having to die to this self efforts, what a struggle he had. At the end of 7 Holy Spirit starts to open to us, the Righteousness that is by faith, the hearing of the Word of God in the heart. the Grace of God that appears to all mankind bringing salvation Rom 7:25 picking up the Cross & denying the motions of the carnal minded flesh. Rom 8:2 reveals His Grace is the Law, & goes on to declare Rom 8:14 Revealing 1John 3:6, abiding in His Grace/Spirit/Light/Cross. For the Spirit of God will never lead us into sin. As we continue in the exercise of Grace, putting Christ on, 2Cor 4:6 we're in the working of Titus 3:5 1Pet 1:2 unto the new creature, Col 3:10 where 2Cor 5:17. Rom 8:29 reveals this sonship, the divine nature implanted being Rom 8:15-17 & in Him there is no sin or 1John 1:5,6 we're sinless
All a free gift from our Father, yet must be appropriated by Faith, God causing us to will do of His good pleasure, for His own Name sake. Ezekiel 36:21-23 Isa 55:3
Continue in His Love
I don't see where the verses you referenced conflict in any way with what I said or the verses I quoted.
If God has "saved" us, i.e. we have become Born Again, we will ENDURE TO THE END. We will have an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to the Law of God and we will more and more turn away from sin in our life; not in order that God will "save" us, but because we have a "want to" in our Soul to obey Him.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Then God will COMPLETE our Salvation at the Last Day when we receive our Resurrected Spiritual Bodies.
Here are some other verses for your consideration:
John 3:3-8 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Yet to clarify for those that are new: 1 Peter 3:21, (as goes w/a few other verses suchas John 3:3-21, 12:43-50 & Titus 3:5. "To be born again/saved after repenting is *except Christ as Lord, believe in His DBR & therefore being in His spirit as one by Gods grace & it is thru this, that we are saved*, which is the ONLY thing getting us to heaven.! NOTHING else is needed.!
Referance of being baptised 'of' (not 'in') water is of the mothers womb for God being ALL OMNI- knew man would some day try & duplicate His creation. (As man is now). BEFORE Christ DBR there was water baptism. Spititual baptistm is when one chooses (Gods freewill, not forced) to repent excepting His DBR as truth in their heart.! Wolves in sheep clothing may lead them to Christ yet God will guide them to His truth in His time for His purpose.
Water baptism is merely an outword show of our salvation for others to help hold us accountable. We can be comforted w/His peace that passes ALL understanding if we continually seek His word. We'll go through trials till He knows if we're strong enough in His wisdom to complete His way for us.! Did the thief nx to Jesus come down from the cross, get baptised & placed bk up to die? No, Christ knew his heart was sincere, forgave him instantly, of his sins & said "today you shall be with me in paradise".! No water needed.!
As for " 1 Cor 14, Yes tongues Is a gift for some (NOT entire congregation) from God or at times were 2-3 (no more) gather (again HE knows their heart so to do so w/out an interpreter in anyother situation is blasphemy). Only truly believing His DBR will get us eternity in heaven.
John 3:15-21 (Christ own words). Doesn't say 'believe in me & do this or that'. The period after Everlasting life.
Jesue said Matt 5:20
the expression of the Scrip implies obedience,, for Matt 7:21 to enter His works that's been prepared for us from the foundation of the world. Ephesians 2:10 which is these works of righteousness of Titus 3:5 that comes to us by His mercy towards us.
What are His works, the first is 'repentance" God Spirit work upon one soul, convincing one of their sins, which springs from the spirit of unbelief, that comes from the devil, his influnece upon one's heart, & keeps one in his kingdom of disobedience & all who plead for sin & are convince we're not to be delivered from it in this life is of the devil, are deluded, deceived & believe a lie,
2 Thessalonians 2:11 their faith is a life & why? Because they did not choose to become lovers of the Truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:10,11
I could go on with this vein of Truth that's Scriptural sound, with sound reasoning. His Spirit Witness in your own hearts witnesses to the Truth that's being reveal. the question is will you receive Him?
Friends, for the love of your eternal souls, & for the love of Christ soften your heart by Jeremiah 4:3 thorns, the corruptible seed of the devil & Hosea 10:12 the free gift, the Word of Righteousness, the incorruptible Seed of Rom 5:17 & receive Him
in love & truth
There is no earn salvation, in being obedient to God commands.
Obedient does show our love for Him, according to Scrip
Believing, loving & obedience go hand in hand, it's the proof of having one of the other, aligns us with the whole of Scripture to all those who walk in the faith of Abraham James 2:18-24
Titus 3:5
States to those who believe, there are works of righteousness to be done, that all may see & glorify our Father who is in heaven. Matt 5:16
Yet, it's not by these works that we are being saved, but by His Mercy, Who causes us by His Spirit influence upon our hearts to will & do of His good pleasure & His good pleasure is to love Him, become obedient, which shows itself forth as these works of righteousness.
1Pet 1:22 Seeing ye have purify your souls in obeying the Truth, states obedient purifies us by 1Pet 1:23 by hearing & becoming obedient to the incorruptible Word of God that lives & abides forever is how we become born again.
This is the working out of our salvation with fear & trembling, the sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience, stating the progressional work of "washing of regeneration & renewing in the Holy Spirit" bringing us unto obedience. & sprinkling of the Blood/Life of Jesus in our hearts that cleanses & purges out not only the sin, but the evil one from our heart, who influence us to sin.
Folks, the very essence of the Salvation is obedience, & one must learn obedience, eventually bringing us to become holy, blameless, unreproachable & acceptable in His Sight. Col 1:22
Hebrews 5:9 states there must be obedience to be born again, & Jesus becomes the Author of their eternal salvation
Again, it's only by His merciful loving kindness that we are empower to these works of righteousness, which conforms us into the Image of the Obedient One. Rom 8:29 Who always did those things that pleases the Father John 8:29 John 14:31
He's our Example, lets pick up the cross & follow Jesus, His Spirit Rom 8:2
in love & truth
I left out one of my favorites.
Titus 3:3-7.
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
God bless.
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Again, thank you for your thoughtful reply.
I believe that the search for truth is but the honest searching out of what interferes with truth, and that truth must be true throughout if it be true. It cannot contradict itself, nor be in some parts uncertain and others sure.
I also believe everyone on this site, with very few exceptions, genuinely desires to understand truth and draw nearer to God. Perhaps I come off contentious , and seemingly ask foolish questions. One may consider being careful though, not to use Titus 3:9 as a tool to possibly make people seem or feel foolish because of their questions which one may have mistakenly judged as contentious. How can one be certain this is not an opportunity provided by the Holy Spirit to lovingly lead another towards God's perfect love and healing.
I've been reading and contemplating the Bible off and on for well over fifty years, and yet I still reluctantly find myself perceiving conflict within it. I've spent too many years in church and in fear of asking these questions I would like solid answers to. I would like nothing more than to have the Bible make perfect sense to me. If you or anyone doesn't want to, or CAN"T convincingly answer my seemingly foolish questions and/or comments within what I would consider a simple dialogue, I'm ok with it.
For the majority of my life I have consistently genuinely asked the Holy Spirit for truth according to the One and Only God of Perfect Love. I don't see myself as special in this sense, as I'm certain most of us here desire and ask this in their own way.
God Is
Peace
I believe Richard H Priday provided another good example of answering your question where he said:
"God did create hell as well; but originally it was meant for the Devil and his angels. ( Matt. 25:41). Clearly; men enter in there because they are following their master; namely Satan rather than God. Therefore; all things work out for the good for those who love God ( Romans 8:28); but conversely; there is no peace for the wicked ( Isaiah 48:22; other passages)."
For you to reject these Bible-based 'Contrasts' depicted in the Bible to then ask questions like:
- Would you agree that whenever Light enters darkness, the darkness is abolished?
- If yes, then if God is darkness as He is Light, then He must be capable of abolishing Himself.
- Light abolishes darkness merely by showing us the darkness is not there. If this is true and God is responsible and the Source for both Light and darkness, then He would literally abolish Himself into non existence.
COMMENT: It seems your desire is to enter into "...foolish questions...and contentions" that I am not prepared to enter into on the following basis:
"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." ( Titus 3:9)
Sorry, One eighty, but I m trying to be helpful here and not offensive.
AN ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
"IF YOU "LOVE" ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS".
Let's put some emphasis on Love for a chance.
What manner of Love is this?
Is it not agape?
Can you generate this height of Love on your own?
Is it not a fruit of the Spirit given once one IS saved?
SO WHAT IS THIS SAYING?
To get the context you have to pick it up the from John 13 on through John 14:23.
John 13:34-35.
"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
BY THIS SHALL ALL MEN KNOW THAT YE ARE MY DISCIPLES, if ye have love one to another.
Jesus taught that those who follow Him will show love for the brothern ( John 13:12-15, 34).
That is the primary sign of faith to the outside world ( John 13:35). Here, he indicates that obedience to His command is the primary sign of our love for Him.
A person cannot claim to know Christ and hate other Christians
1 John 4:20.
Proceeding from John 14:15 on thru John 14:16-23 Jesus is telling them he was going and sending them the Holyspirit that will guide them.
Throughout this section, a person's love for Christ, their obedience to His teachings, and the indwelling of the Spirit are intertwined
All the law hangs on this.
Matthew 23:37-40.
AND THE MINISTRATION OF THE LAW COULDN'T PRODUCE THIS.
2 Corinthians 3:8-11 concedes that regeneration by the gift of the Holyspirit in those who believe in Christ exceeds the ministration of the law.
"How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of THE GLORY THAT EXCELLETH.
FOR IF THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY WAS GLORIOUS, MUCH MORE THAT WHICH REMAINETH IS GLORIOUS.
It's the fruit that is on exhibit.
That's what James is also saying in his letter.
Also see
Titus 3:4-8.
God bless.
Jesus Christ. The Word of Faith, believing that it was indeed Christ fulfilling His Father command to shine within our heart/conscience. The still small Voice that reproof us of evil thoughts, words or deeds. This is the true Light, John 1:9; Grace is the law of Rom 8:2; he obey it from Rom 6:17,18; it make us free Rom 6:22; Holy writ says, Rom 6:14,15; the word used is shall, not should, it's a positive assertion, a confident & forceful statement of fact. Holy Spirit states it twice here, along with other strong assertions to the same end. Rom 6:1,2; Rom 6:6,7; Rom 6:11-13;
You say "we have been join to Christ" only when we have been perfected by the working of Grace, which is indeed being dead unto sin, as you stated "Paul is saying recognize that sin has no rule/dominion over you" meaning you don't have to sin no more. For Grace teaches us the Cross, the power of God unto salvation. The body is just a vessel animated by the spirit & soul, become John 3:5 & Rom 12:1 & the body will be animated & be led by Holy Spirit. Yet for all this, it is safe to say the body of flesh still bare the consequences of the fall, but in the next life we're to received new bodies, like unto His glorious body. Halleluiah!
3. 1 John 3:1-9, yes indeed, after the working of Grace in the 1 Pet 1:2; Titus 3:5 being born again by receiving 1Pet 1:23 unto the new Creature, created in Col 3:10;
Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.
I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;
Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;
As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.
Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.
This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;
It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;
Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.
But two verses later in Titus 3:7 it says we "should be made heirs" and "hope of eternal life". That now returns to an outcome waiting to be determined. Hope of eternal life is a future thing hoped for usually in the future, not present or past, and should be made heirs is also looking to the future.
"That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." Titus 3:7 KJV
One possible explanation to reconcile this with the other verses like 1 Peter 1:13, 1 Peter 1:51, Phil 2:12, 2 Timothy 1:12 is that the statement of Jesus saving us is true and universally available for all of humanity. However on an individual level it still seems it depends on someone's choices- whether someone chooses to follow Jesus or not. The Bible already says most won't choose this and most will go to hell Matthew 7:13. So when it says "he saved us" combined with that context, maybe that is a general statement that Jesus died to save all of us, but we still must choose to follow Him and accept that hope of eternal life. This is currently what these verses are seeming like.
So, the list now has 3 verses supporting the already saved idea compared to those about a future salvation. Does anyone have more?
Please read titus 3: 1-11
I pray God's peace be upon you.
Love you all
Yes we have freedom of speech as the world gives.
What is important to spiritual growth is truth!
That's what we earnestly seek for.
If one decide to minister on this site he has the freedom to do so.
If one decide not to minister he has the freedom to do so.
If one decide to treat this community as a round table he has that freedom and if one takes the word of God to be handed serious he had that freedom.
Freedom goes on and if it's freedom you want, give it and expect it from everyone including me.
I'm not giving my opinion, I'm repeating what they have literally said out their own mouth!
If the accusation is false that's one thing but if it's true and is as easy as asking them, feel freely to do so.
In other words ask them directly and they should tell you directly that which they have said "We will be Gods and the Gospel which we preach is man made.
If it don't bother you when they say it don't let it bother you when I repeat it.
This is a King James site and what's written in it tells us to mark such a person.
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Romans 16:17.
Galatians 1:8-9.
Titus 3:10.
2 John 1:10-11.
Sometimes it's easier to know what the bible says than to do what it says.
God bless.