Israel of old in a way represents the natural man at his best.
They were a nation separated from a pagan Idolizing world and instructed by God with God in their midst.
They displays the nature of man who's joined to a living soul. (Adam).
(This is an example where religion does not save.)
Sin is not only what you do that condemns you. It's also who you are that condemns you. "A sinner!
Education about right on wrong can't save you, it can only convict you,
However, this lesson and conviction is necessary for the preparation of the Gospel. That's was their purpose.
There is only one that can save you and that's the last Adam. he is a quickening spirit. (Life giving Spirit.) Christ.
There has to be a transition from the first Adam to the last Adam and that is seen in baptism of the Holyspirit. Romans 6:3-4.
Look at the order of events here in Romans 6:22-23.
1st) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God,
2nd) ye have your fruit unto holiness,
3rd) and the end everlasting life.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. ( The Gift is eternal life by that life giving Spirit. Jesus)
Romans 8:11. speaks on the quickening spirit that raised Jesus from the dead quickening our mortal bodies to bare fruit unto life.
Romans 8:12-16 sums this all up.
"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:" This is the gift of eternal life shown in sanctification.
This is also what James is saying in James 2:17-18.
Thank you for replying because I LOVE to talk about all things God. With that said I would like to address some things you said. "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?" Romans 8:32 KJV. This scripture shows that God is willing to give us knowledge and even understanding of His Ways! So, while there are somethings that I must "simply accept" but it isn't because my Father doesn't want to share them with me, I must "simply accept" because they are Too High for my puny mind to understand.
You also mention God's Commandment to Adam, and I see the point you're making; yet I ask you to "look" deeply at God's commandment to Adam. God gave a Commandment to Adam and satan deceived Eve, who in turn deceived Adam; do you think that satan was somehow able to infest The Garden outside THE KNOWLEDGE of GOD? Never! So, the only viable conclusion is that God "allowed" satan to be there! (Note: this isn't the same thing as giving permission). Therefore, we can conclude that God knew what would happen. So, it isn't that Satan subverted God, or that Adam ruined God's Plan; no, I can, with assurance, declare that it was Always The Plan of God that we fall! Remember, we are made in The Image of God and yet we were made unknowing of evil or good. God knows evil as well as good. Therefore, He "allowed" satan to give us the flesh (desire of evil) so that we may know and understand evil, so that when He Rescues us He may impart Goodness and then we will know and understand Good (the tree of the knowledge of evil and good) it was Always The Plan that we know and understand these things.
Thanks Daruled for your explanation. And of course, what you say is correct, seeing that Romans 7:12 clearly tells us, "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Words of that Holy Law given to Israel from the Mouth of God.
You've stated that my use of the word 'abrogation' isn't correct, rather you "look for the maturation of the old thing" (i.e. the Law). In one sense, I do agree to what you've stated that the old, through the gift Holy Spirit, has 'matured' into a New Law now applicable to the Saint. However, the way I look at the Old Law, hence my writing of its abrogation (abolishment), is that the Law was bound to the Old Covenant (there could be no separation at all). If a Jew continued to follow the words & compulsions of the Law, he was still under the Old Covenant & under it he would be judged. But under the New Covenant in Christ's Blood, the Old Covenant has been abolished with its requirements for rigid obedience to the Law that was intrinsic to it, with its resulting judgements. The Law that only led to death had to be abolished so that the Law that gives life ( Romans 8:2) might be established. The two could never be fused together.
So why are we seeing this differently? I agree to the Words of the Law given to Israel are everlasting & those words can certainly be applied under the New Covenant. Yet, it's not just the Words themselves, but the nature of the Old Covenant that is in question. The Words might be similar & applicable, but since the New Covenant supersedes the Old, the Old can only give the believer in Christ a 'skeletal' view of what God now requires of His children. And this, the Old Law could never show Israel - but only after Jesus came & then under the New Covenant, the Spirit can reveal the full meaning, implications, & requirement of God for holy living, now accomplished in His Power alone. This the Old Law could never do, for it wasn't in its design.
Hi Daruled. And welcome to these Discussion pages & hope you will enjoy fellowship with us around God's Word.
Your question would require a very long answer, beyond the scope of these pages, & you may have noticed that this matter is being presently addressed & does come up often here (because it is so important & often so misunderstood). So just a quick answer to your "quick question": when we read that the believer is 'freed, or delivered, from the Law' ( Romans 7:6), we should understand that to mean that the Law given to Israel has no more rule & binding on the one who is now 'IN Christ'.
So, those of Israel & of the Gentiles who have been saved by Christ's Blood, have entered into a New Covenant relationship (in His Blood), that not only abrogates that old Law that only revealed sin & ended in death ( Romans 7:9-11), but brings forth a New Law within this New Covenant that we are now to hear & obey. Where the Old Law written on stones demanded total obedience by one's own power or else face death, the New Law of the Spirit ( Romans 8:2) is now embedded deep in the believer, & now is given the Holy Spirit energized power to obey, not just a set of 10 Commandments, but all the Law of God. And this New Law covers every aspect of the believer's life, which means that God's Commands are no longer limited to a number, but the Spirit brings every thought, word or deed into the believer's spiritual view & applies conviction & understanding applicable to the individual.
So yes, the believer IN Christ, can never be "lawless", for if he is & seeks to live his life separate from the workings of God's Spirit in him, he should then question whether real salvation is his actual experience. And I would venture further to state, that a child of God, led of His Spirit in him, would hardly be able to go through his waking moments each day without regular testings & examinations by the All-searching, All-ministering Holy Spirit residing in him. Blessings.
You're changing the narrative to strengthen your point.
You said,
Just because you strive for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example does not mean you're trying to earn heaven.
We agree on striving for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example! When did you get that?
You also said, "You think the 10 commandments apply- obviously the argument that since Jesus it's ok to do "whatever" is a weak argument"
I've never heard anyone say that on this site, in fact for years we've made it very very clear that the commandments was Holy and they were to show man he is a sinner.
The emphasis has always been on man and his inability to keep the commandments and man's fallen sinful nature.
Is man sinful? Yes!
Has all sinned? Yes!
Romans 3:10
1 John 1:8-10.
Can the commandments make him right with God? No! Galatians 2:21.
It has never been anything close to an argument whether killing, stealing, adultery, ect was a sin or not on this site, and you know that.
There's plenty sins we make that is not listed in the 10 commandments, We sin in our mind and heart, Lack of patience and trust in God is a sin.
You can sin doing the right thing because you didn't want to. Our rebellious nature is sinful.
The Power of Christ resurrection didn't just atone for your sins, it also quickened you to live a live a productive life in Christ, pleasing to God. Romans 8:9-13.
And even with this power and energy from the Holyspirit you can't come from underneath the blood of Christ.
Scripture teaches if a man continues in sin he's not saved. You call that a straw man's argument. But I'm sure you will admit that all have sinned.
You've said no one knows whether they are saved or not until the judgment, But if we're saved by keeping the law it should be clear to you that we're all condemned considering the strictness of the law, then how do God judge his people? He'd have to compromise if Galatians 2:16 isn't true.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1 KJV
No condemnation for who? "to them which are in Christ Jesus"
How about those who aren't really "in" Christ Jesus, but just familiar. Maybe someone's "saved" 30 years ago and inactive since? Maybe doing worldly things here and there, but hey we're all sinners, right? Maybe I'm just following the holy spirit, so its not my fault for indulging in sin sometimes, right?" [satan's deception]
"no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh"
"I'm still saved if I walk after the flesh though, right?"
"who walk not after the flesh"
This is a qualifier. It doesn't say there's no condemnation to anyone and everyone. It also says those who walk not after the flesh. Those who aren't actively, intentionally sinning. Sinning is turning your back on God. Sinning is like slapping Jesus in the face. Satan is trying to convince Christians that the law doesn't apply, that it's ok to sin. It's not ok. Sin leads to death and still will without Jesus. That is not a license to sin, however. Following Jesus means being a "slave" to righteousness- an intentional effort to take Jesus seriously and truly follow Him. Many say it, few do it. Just because you strive for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example does not mean you're trying to earn heaven. This is the number one straw man argument people keep repeating over and over. Some even take it to the extreme where they say God doesn't want you to obey Him. "It's bad to obey God, and good to NOT obey Him." Who does that sound like?
Some cherry pick scripture and ignore the following and obedience part. We're still saved by grace.
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matthew 5:17 KJV
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
You wrote "Yes it is the 4th Commandment. Regarding the Sabbath scripturally, this is directly from God."
There are several scriptures here that do not lend support to your position regarding Christians having to maintain the Sabbath. Not to mention the entire book of Galatians weighing in on the law.
Colossians 2:16 (KJV) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
2 Corinthians 3:7-11 (AMP)
7 Now if the dispensation of death engraved in letters on stone [the ministration of the Law], was inaugurated with such glory and splendor that the Israelites were not able to look steadily at the face of Moses because of its brilliance, [a glory] that was to fade and pass away,
8 Why should not the dispensation of the Spirit [this spiritual ministry whose task it is to cause men to obtain and be governed by the Holy Spirit] be attended with much greater and more splendid glory?
9 For if the service that condemns [the ministration of doom] had glory, how infinitely more abounding in splendor and glory must be the service that makes righteous [the ministry that produces and fosters righteous living and right standing with God]!
10Indeed, in view of this fact, what once had splendor [the glory of the Law in the face of Moses] has come to have no splendor at all, because of the overwhelming glory that exceeds and excels it [the glory of the Gospel in the face of Jesus Christ].
11 For if that which was but passing and fading away came with splendor, how much more must that which remains and is permanent abide in glory and splendor!
Thank you Jcubria, you have explained this very important teaching very well. My regular 'go to' verses are Romans 8:1-4, which in fact should fully convince us of the abrogation of the old Law given solely to Israel, which they not only couldn't fully meet its demands, but only showed them their sinfulness & led them to death ( Romans 7:7-11). That Law could never give Life. Life can only be found in Christ & obedience to His Spirit. The Old Law required rigid obedience or suffer, but the workings of Holy Spirit in the regenerated heart now gives life, liberty, & power to obey & serve, & these remain diametrically opposed to each other. Israel of old never received the Holy Spirit to enable them to correctly obey God, hence the need for the myriad of sacrifices to avert His Wrath upon them. But Jesus was the one and only Sacrifice whereby the sinner is released from the Law & its penalties, removed from God's Condemnation, & eternal damnation & death no longer his prospect, and enables him to obey the righteousness contained within God's Holy Demands.
As the Apostle Paul stated in Romans 7:6, "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter", we see his affirmation of the futility of the Law when compared to the glory & permanence of life in obedience to the Holy Spirit. The Decalogue was simply a snapshot of some of God's Holy Requirements, & even in this short set of Commands, Israel failed miserably. But the Law given & empowered by the Spirit embraces all of God's Requirements, searching every area of a believer's heart & life, revealing sin & shortcomings, but enabling him to live unto God & not to the letter of the Law.
However, I'm not certain that the "majority of Christians do not believe the Law of Moses is binding upon believers today as a rule of life". From my experience, I've learned that many don't correctly understand this Truth.
What does taking up your cross and following Jesus imply.
DEATH, you have to DIE; yet, you are alive; this is the first death, dying to TRUTH, then the judgement: 1 Peter 4:17 The time is (NOW) come, that JUDGEMENT must begin at the HOUSE OF GOD (your the house of God, judged by the words of God).
Galatians 2:20 I am CRUCIFIED (you died on the cross) with Christ; yet I LIVE, yet NOT I, but CHRIST LIVETH in me (YOU are the body of Christ).
ONLY the BODY of Christ arose from the grave, the NEW CREATION, you are the BODY of Christ, you; flesh and blood, now longer exist, you DIED on the cross, only Christ RESURRECTED exist.
1 Timothy 6:16 Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the LIGHT ......
! Corinthians 15:54 ...this mortal shall put on IMMORTALITY (Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY) .....
1 Corinthians 15:49 As you have borne the IMAGE of the EARTHLY, you shall bear the IMAGE of the heavenly .....
Romans 8:29 ... being predestinated to be conformed TO THE IMAGE of CHRIST ....
John 17:22 And the glory that thou gavest me, I HAVE GIVEN THEM, that they may be ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE.
You was saved from death 2000 years ago, when you were resurrected a NEW CREATION.
Christ (TRUTH) began revealing himself to you in 1979, this Revelation of "Christ in you" will continue until the angel ls sent to harvest HIS SEED.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they (YOU) DIE ANY MORE: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN of the RESURRECTION.
You are now in the birth pains of being born again.
Christ revealing who you are IN HIM.
1 Peter 1:23 Being BORN AGAIN ..... by the WORD(s) of GOD ...... TRUTH ......
Revelation 12:2 .... and she (YOU, Christ wife) being with child, travailing in birth, pained to be DELIVERED ......
1 Timothy 2:14 .... but the woman, being deceived (by a carnal mind) was in the TRANSGRESSION ....
1 Timothy 2:15 ..... she shall BE SAVED IN CHILDBEARING ...
Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron....
Philippians 2:5 Let this MIND be IN YOU, which was also in Christ Jesus
Philippians 2:6 Who being in the form (image) of God, thought it not robbery to equal to God.
1 Corinthians 2:16 ....we have the MIND of CHRIST ....
Romans 8:29 .... being predestinated (by the resurrection of Christ) to be conformed to his image .....
Revelation 2:26 And to him that overcometh (deception) and keepeth MY WORKS, to him will I give power over the nations .....
Romans 8:7 For the CARNAL MIND is ENMITY (in direct rebellion) against God (the WORD) ....
Most Christians are STILL under the influence of a carnal mind (Satan, deceptions, falsehoods).
Christ is TRUTH, anything not of TRUTH is ANTI-christ.
Isaiah 55:8 ....MY thoughts (the mind of Christ) are not your thoughts (the carnal mind, ANTI-christ) ......
Isaiah 59:7 ..... their thoughts (the carnal mind) are thoughts of iniquity ......
Luke 15:30 And as soon as this thy son was come, which has devoured thy living with HARLOTS, thou hast killed FOR HIM the fatted calf.
Matthew 21:31..... HARLOTS go into the kingdom of heaven before you .....
Hosea 4:14 I WILL NOT punish your daughters when they commit whoredom, nor you spouses when they commit adultery: for themselves (those with carnal minds) are seperated with whores, and they (the carnal minded) sacrifice with harlots: therefore the people that DOETH NOT UNDERSTAND SHALL FALL.
The carnal mind WILL NOT understand these scriptures, it takes the mind of Christ to understand God's parables.
The soul can make one Love or Live right before men, while before God the Living God who made the heavens we are sinning thinking we are right with Him.
Remember even the thief who steals and murder says he is a good person who is able to love and live well, moreover during burial no one stands and says this dead person was a sinner but you will hear he is a good person.
-For all are in the soulish and not in the spirit
Bear this in mind as it is written in John 4:23-24
23.But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24.God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
And if one has repented of his sins at the cross in Jesus Christ the Son of the living God, Instead of doing everything to please himself. he lives to glorify God whether he eat or drink all he does is in the glory of God.
as it is written in 1 Corinthians 10:31
31.Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Therefore Worship God in Spirit and Let God lead you He knows how, He will teach you if you ask by prayer God is faithful.
Remember
it is written in romans 8:14
14.For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
- Let us hear the conclusion of this matter
Yes we see people love in the soulish in fact people marry for long years but the marriages are either very shaky and majority end up in divorce
we see father loving their kids and mothers loving their kids and the kids likewise love their parents and at the end there is not true compassion and the love is a love of gain.
Heavenly Father, for three years I have been asking for You to heal me. For a woman to lose her crown of glory is unbearable. Father God, Romans 8:32, You said that You and Your Son Jesus will freely give us our need. By Your stripes Jesus we are healed but no manifestation of Your power. I have read over and over 1 Corinthians 11:15 and no results. Please take me home.
Don't look back with regrets; what you call mistakes, God calls a learning experience to gain knowledge.
Josephs brothers thought that they made a mistake and had regrets, Joseph, in the wisdom of God SAID:
Genesis 50:20 But as for you, you thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to SAVE MUCH PEOPLE ALIVE.
2 Corinthians 5:18 ALL THINGS (even what we deem as mistakes) ARE OF GOD, who hath reconciled (a completed ACT) us unto himself by (the resurrection) of Jesus Christ, and hath given us the ministry (KNOWLEDGE) of reconciliation.
Romans 8:7 The carnal mind is ENMITY (in direct rebellion) against God (the WORD) .........
Thanks for your comments Oseas. I can see that we read & understand the Bible in differently. You write: "the letter kills, I would say "letters" are the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". In writing about the 'letter kills', Paul (in 2 Corinthians 3:6) is contrasting the Letter of the Law given to Israel, which could never give them life, but only lead to death. There was nothing wrong with the Commandments of God: they showed God's Standards, the nature of sin & condition of the human heart, & their inability to fully meet the Law's demands. "But what the Law (the Letter) could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh" ( Romans 8:3).
And when His Son paid sin's price, the Letter of the Law had no more hold on those who looked to Him & not to the Letter to save them. God's Spirit was given to believers, who would now be subject to the Spirit: "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" ( Romans 8:2). So, the letter of the Bible is NOT a stumbling block; it is the very Word of God, given by the Spirit & enabling that Word to be applied to the believer. If we dismiss the Word of God as just being 'a letter (a tree if knowledge)', then we must also dismiss that the Word is "God-breathed", yet we must obey it 'to the letter'. If we don't, then we can do whatever we want with it, even as we see the behavior of many so-called believers. Let's not try to be so tuned to the Spirit so as to avoid the very Words that the Spirit has given us for our understanding & obedience. The Holy Spirit will never ask us to do or behave in a way that is inconsistent with the revealed Word of God.
As far as the 'root of sin being the sound of words by a lying tongue', the Devil might be the author of sin, but we can (as the Lord Himself did) choose to listen & obey him or not. Sin lies at our door - the door of our heart.
No, absolutely no, only who really follows JESUS and believe in Him understand of this I'm testifying. Keeping the sabath is a mere human formality of those who bear false witness through an evil and sectarian spirit, and insists on contradicting what JESUS said.
JESUS said(I also speak like Him)- Matthew 11: 12-15: -> 13 For all the prophets and the LAW prophesied until John (the Baptist).
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the Kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
That said, who really follows JESUS and believe in Him speaks as He speaks because has the Spirit of Christ. JESUS said: John 7:38 - He that believeth on me, as the SCRIPTURE hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. By the way, "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His"- Romans 8:9.
Actually, JESUS worked on the Sabbath and the Father also worked- John 5:17.
The Jews sought the more to kill JESUS, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that GOD was His Father, making himself equal with God- John 5:18.
Now, in the current time, in this end of the times, the contradicting preachers of the Sabbath keeping sects, try to lead astray and kill the true believers in JESUS by replacing the spirit of Christ that is in them by their sectarian spirit, evil and hypocrite, and they compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, they make him twofold more the child of hell than themselves, as we can see in this present time in those which atend the temple of sects in this current time.
Be careful or then get ready, for "the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in this latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils- 1Timothy 4:1. (devils? John 6:70-71 and Luke 22:3. Take a look.).
P1: Re-read some scriptures last evening and would like to write them here.
All of John Chapter 13 ; Chapter 14
John 1:4 "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."
Colossians 1:15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature."
Romans 8:32 "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?"
Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory and express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
Romans 8:29 "For whom he did foreknowledge, he did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first born among many brethren."
1 Corinthians 1:29 "That no flesh glory in his presence"
John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we behold his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
Luke 1:31 "And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS."
Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privileges."
Isaiah 53:1 "Who hat believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?"
Philippians 2:5 - 6 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God."
Hebrews 6:20 "Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."
Hi Gasman. Yours are good questions & often very debatable when considering the construct of man & the Work of the Holy Spirit within Him or even, upon Him. Firstly, we do understand from the Word, that we are tripartite beings (i.e. composed of soul, spirit & body): 1 Thessalonians 5:23. The 'body' aspect we know, but it can be difficult to correctly understand the difference between the soul & spirit. So, if we take it as the soul being our mental, emotive powers & the spirit being the 'life force', all given by God so that can be living creatures able to experience all that God has given us & of course, our return of worship & thanks to our Creator, then we can somewhat understand how God's Spirit connects with us.
Only when a person has been born again by God's Spirit ( John 3:3), can that person be in a new revived position of receiving & giving communication to our Heavenly Father. God sends His Spirit to be with us & in us ( John 14:17), but His Spirit doesn't replace our spirit, nor does He overrule us to the extent that we cease to think & behave as ordinary people. So, when He ministers to us (whether in decision-making, personal conduct, in worship, in understanding the Word, etc.), it becomes our choice as to whether we allow His gentle & precise ministry to influence us or not. Sadly, we often allow carnal thoughts or pre-conceived ideas or beliefs to take precedent over His, much to our detriment. But when we are truly walking (& worshiping in the Spirit) - Galatians 5:16,25 - then we will truly know His Peace, that which 'surpasses all our understanding & inclinations' ( Philippians 4:7), joyfully allowing Him to lead us, especially in worship & in faith, for all we experience.
Your questions 'to which spirit'? Our spirit is never laid aside in the functioning of man - our faculties are always in force. It is how much we allow the Holy Spirit to take control in our lives, our worship, even 'wisdom in allowing others into our lives' ( Romans 8:1-28).
"It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not." ( Lamentations 3:22)
...and in the wilderness where you saw how the LORD your God carried you, as a man carries his son, in all the way that you went until you came to this place.' ( Deuteronomy 1:31)
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. ( Romans 5:8)
The mercy of God and His lovingkindness are something that never pass; or grow old. It is something to daily praise Him for no matter what the circumstances as we know that we shall indeed be in His presence someday; and out of these old bodies whether by Rapture or Resurrection. He has secured us for all eternity. As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. ( Psalm 103:12). As believers he has replaced our heart of stone with a heart of flesh ( Ezekiel 36:26). His children are sanctified and inevitably glorified ( Romans 8:30). Whether we consider the Israelites physically delivered from Egypt's bondage to the Promised Land; or our own delivery from the earth to heaven the Spirit seals believers with this "down payment" ( Eph. 1:13).
WORD OF WARNING
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. ( Matt. 5:45).
This verse is related to previous ones speaking of loving our enemies as part of the Sermon on the Mount. Christ shared close ties with Judas Iscariot; according to Psalm 41:9 "Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me." The unregenerate enjoy for a time the creation in this life but attribute their blessings to what they consider the "goodness" of their heart; their accomplishments; merits; accolades etc. See Ecclesiastes 8:11 for a warning on delayed judgment; also see Galatians 6:7.
Phillips Craig and Dean from the song From the Inside Out (Fearless Album)
Proverbs 16:9 shows that man makes plans but the Lord orders his steps. Our best attempts at determining what is right even as Christians can't possibly take into account the bad things that happen and just how the Lord will use those things for our good for those who love God and are called according to His purposes ( Romans 8:28). Time and again the Lord has shown in scripture as well as today that martyrs ultimately serve a greater purpose; it such as Jim Elliot martyred with his friends in the jungle and the efforts of his wife and others afterwards with the resulting fruit of their efforts in converts.
Dying to self may or may not demand a complete change in trajectory as to our vocation or living situation. God makes it clear that those married to unbelievers are not to depart unless forced by the other person. We are also to work heartily unto the Lord ( Col. 3:23-24) and in fact; if we don't work we don't eat ( 2 Thessalonians 3:10). Luke 10:7 shows how the workman is worthy of his hire at least in terms of ministry but Paul supplemented support through tentmaking as to not be a burden to others. Obviously; as with the woman caught in adultery ( John 8:1-11) there had to be an end to sin therefore a radical change in lifestyle and by default cutting off many social ties. Whether we can be a witness or former associates post conversion are a detriment is based on several factors in individual situations. Clearly any criminal sources of income have to be ended; and we should make restitution whenever possible for those we have offended (see Ephesians 4:28; implied in doing good with what is earned).
As to our affections being set on things above ( Colossians 3:3-10) it is an ongoing process. As an onion each layer of self is peeled away.
The verses you stated from Jeremiah are also used by Paul in Hebrews 9:8-12. Paul considers this new covenant to Israel that Jeremiah is taking about is the New Testament that God introduced firstly to Hebrews and then to the rest of the world. But Jews didn't receive Jesus, and consequently God, so their House was left abandoned by God. Until when? Until they repend for crucifying Jesus and ask for Him. When is this going to occur? At the very end. Paul in Rom 11:25-27 says that they will be saved after the fullness of the nations will come in (the salvation).
So who are the elect now? Romans 8:30-32,
"30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of GOD'S ELECT? It is God that justifieth."
Please pay attention to the above verse 33.
God's intention when creating the Hebrew nation through Abraham was not to have a superior race than the rest who will conquer the world. His aim is to create a nation which will preserve the faith to the true God, through which at the proper time the Savior would erect to sacrifice Himself for the salvation of all people. In God's mind was the whole mankind not just a race.
So He established the church on Pentecost
Ephessians 2:14-17,
"14For he is our peace, who hath made both (Jews and gentiles) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Continuing with the thought on deliverance; there are verses which state we are not to be hasty in laying on of hands with someone ( 1 Tim. 5:22). Obviously; the extended conversations with demons that are almost always on camera are not needed most of the time based on how Christ operated. It is often obvious this is for entertainment value; and certainly isn't helpful if someone is in need of deliverance to toy with the demons in them or keep them waiting. It is rare but not unheard of to see a person who is going through great grief be prayed for that is NOT possessed; or perhaps just oppressed.
If we look at the example of the parable of the seed and sower in Matthew 13:20 we see immediate joy at the Word without a root. Nonetheless we are to confess with our mouth AND believe in our heart that Christ is Lord; both mind and soul are involved. ( Romans 10:9). Since our heart is deceitful ( Jeremiah 17:9) above all things and desperately wicked; we need a new heart as Ezekiel 36:26 states. I have pointed out before that unless we realize that we are being delivered from an enmity with God we aren't going to be drawn toward Christ; we are going to shrink back and eventually fall away. ( Romans 8:7 as well as in many other passages!) BUT; as with anything else joy is the second attribute of good fruit that the Spirit MUST begin to place in our souls after love as the first ( Gal. 5:22). Note that the THIRD attribute is peace; so if we are truly saved we start to overcome fear; on the other hand there is no peace for the wicked. ( Isaiah 48:22; and other parts of Isaiah and Psalms; etc.)
Part of maturity in Christ is knowing the difference between spiritual fruit and our emotions. Seeing Paul's example of joy in extreme suffering certainly is a good example of this as well as Christ's love for us that He would suffer as He did to fulfill the Father's will.
Fellowship should balance mind and heart worship rightly
For it has been granted to you not only to believe in Christ but also to suffer for him (Phillipians 1:29). Acts 5:41 is in a similar vein; namely being thankful for being worthy to be persecuted in His name; which is promised for all true believers. ( 2 Tim. 3:12; etal). The promise of being chastised if we are a true child of God and other sufferings aren't exactly the first thing we focus on
when it comes to God's promises. But of course if we consider these hard sayings first; we can learn to appreciate the more pleasurable promises in a greater way.
The opposite is true of course; in light of Hebrews 11:25. Sin runs its course of earthly pleasures; which lead up to eternal condemnation. For God's children; however there are pleasures evermore in His right hand ( Psalm 16:11). The fullness of life is also mentioned in that verse which corresponds with John 10:10 in living life to the full. Food and clothing are promised in the Gospels ( Matt. 6:25); (compare with 1 Kings 17:6 where the ravens brought Elijah food). Notice that shelter or a place to rest His head is mentioned as lacking in Matthew 8:20; which made some turn away from following Him. Surely Christ Himself did stay in peoples' homes for short interludes; but He also spent many nights on mountains in prayer; or sleeping on a boat.
Much prayer; of course seems to be edifying when focused on fulfilling the Great Commission. God states in Isaiah 55:11; that His word will not go out void; but accomplish His purposes. If we are doing His work; then we can be sure to reap what we sow; in terms of reward (see Psalm 126:5). Heavenly treasures are a promise for those who are serving out of a pure heart (see 2 Timothy 4:7-8). Therefore; the end ouf our sufferings in Christ will bring eternal glory that outweighs anything on earth. (see Romans 8:18). 2 Corinthians 4:17-18 also discusses "momentary afflictions" that don't compare to heavenly bliss.
You quote Job 39:12 and you assign the "seed" to being the word of God. What you are doing is 'spiritualising' a statement of God to Job that was a literal question being put to Job by God that required from Job a literal answer. As Job had none aren't you being somewhat presumptuous here in your claims as to what the seed and the barn mean? An illustration of God's questioning of Job is shown in the verses below:
Job 39:1 "Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth [their offspring]? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve? 2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil [their gestation]? or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?"
Anyone can spiritualise scripture to make it say whatever they want it to say - but it doesn't mean that it is true. Therefore, I reject what you say about this verse.
In regards to your view on John 12:24, although Jesus compares Himself to a grain of wheat as you say, His death was aimed to bring "many sons to glory" ( Hebrews 2:10) through the new birth ( John 3:3-8). Jesus could not establish a glorious church on Earth through His people unless He died and was glorified ( John 7:37-39; Acts 2:33; Eph. 1). Christians today are expected to die as Christ did - but NOT in the physical sense but in the spiritual sense:
- In this, we are to crucify our 'Old Man' nature until "he" is DEAD - Romans 6:6.-
- If we haven't, then spiritually speaking, God sees us as "walking in the flesh" ( Romans 8:1, 7).
However, if we are truly "born-again", we will share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with others so as to bring more lost souls into God's kingdom. By doing this, we (as being that "corn of wheat) will then "...bringeth forth much fruit" - meaning, the lost souls into God's kingdom through personal evangelism, "...some [corns'] an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. 9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear!" ( Matt 13:3-9).
With respect One eighty, you are taking your 'rationale' too far away from what has been presented to you by both others here and me.
I believe Richard H Priday provided another good example of answering your question where he said:
"God did create hell as well; but originally it was meant for the Devil and his angels. ( Matt. 25:41). Clearly; men enter in there because they are following their master; namely Satan rather than God. Therefore; all things work out for the good for those who love God ( Romans 8:28); but conversely; there is no peace for the wicked ( Isaiah 48:22; other passages)."
For you to reject these Bible-based 'Contrasts' depicted in the Bible to then ask questions like:
- Would you agree that whenever Light enters darkness, the darkness is abolished?
- If yes, then if God is darkness as He is Light, then He must be capable of abolishing Himself.
- Light abolishes darkness merely by showing us the darkness is not there. If this is true and God is responsible and the Source for both Light and darkness, then He would literally abolish Himself into non existence.
COMMENT: It seems your desire is to enter into "...foolish questions...and contentions" that I am not prepared to enter into on the following basis:
"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." ( Titus 3:9)
Sorry, One eighty, but I m trying to be helpful here and not offensive.
There are verses where it says that God dwells in thick clouds; i.e. a form of darkness. ( 1 Kings 8:12; also see Psalm 97:2). Darkness in the physical realm is simply the opposite of light. We could say in terms of evil that calamity is created by God for His purposes; although the Lord allows evil spirits to have some authority in that situation (such as the trials with Job). As with Job; the Tribulation also is predetermined to be a time of greater evil than has ever occurred before; or will ever be afterwards. ( Matt. 24:21). Such a trial can be escaped ( Rev. 3:10) by those who are walking in the Spirit as Jesus declared to the Philadelphia church. Those who will endure the Tribulation will be given the strength to overcome; and all those NOT written in the Book of Life will worship the Beast ( Rev. 17:8). In short; physical death represents overcoming; while preserving one's life causes one to ultimately lose it; in terms of eternal life ( John 12:25). This means as a believer it makes sense to "die daily" ( 1 Cor 15:31) which opposes the flesh which desires the opposite.
God did create hell as well; but originally it was meant for the Devil and his angels. ( Matt. 25:41). Clearly; men enter in there because they are following their master; namely Satan rather than God. Therefore; all things work out for the good for those who love God ( Romans 8:28); but conversely; there is no peace for the wicked ( Isaiah 48:22; other passages).
Those who truly know Christ have already gone from darkness into light ( 1 Peter 2:9; etal). We also are able to escape any of the second death ( Rev. 20:7). It is in men's hearts where the god of this world has blinded them; not in the physical realm at this time ( 2 Cor. 4:4). Therefore the darkness of spiritual blindness is basically the essence of evil; so in that sense if we aren't careful what we consider light is really darkness ( Luke 11:35).
Deuteronomy 29:29 shows how we can't fathom God's hidden counsel.
In more careful investigation of scripture; it appears that there are accounts that clearly delineate happenings that occur within a 24 hour day; and others that continue a narrative that may or may not encompass multiple days or perhaps longer periods of time. I thought therefore that a general study of the variety of challenges the Lord faced constantly; along with the spiritual giftings of all types apparent to be active simultaneously ( Colossians 2:9) would be interesting as He had all the "fullness of the Godhead bodily."
His example; therefore as our High Priest ( Heb. 7:25; etc) means that we can live by His example and thus be "imitators of Christ" ( 1 Cor. 11:1). This; of course is easier said than done; impossible in fact in our own efforts ( John 15:5).
Paul; of course is a great; if not THE penultimate example of a surrendered life; and in many ways mirrors Christ in self sacrificial love and service to the church; through many trials; persecutions; and sufferings. These studies should convince anyone who isn't in a coma that today's mushy view of Christ as embodying some sort of feel good; crowd pleasing charisma that everyone loved is far off from reality. This study is greatly challenging to myself; and I assume anyone reading these scriptures as to what is truly required to be His Disciple. Ultimately; I believe this will be a characteristic of every true believer in some aspects; but in reality few surrender their lives enough to truly live in this manner. It is more than an inconvenient truth; the challenges Christ gives to all His followers but of course is as process in some ways as well. The Spirit sanctifies us; conforming us into His image ( Romans 8:29). Philippians 4:1 and some other verses shows us how His church was Paul's crown. This makes our rewards to be based on building up brothers and sisters in the Lord; and to focus attention there keeps us from focusing on our own issues.
Yes, Frankie J., I see we understand Romans 8:4 differently. The "righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us" to me means, that where the letter of the Law failed in that it couldn't produce righteousness in one's life, now we who live by the Spirit & not by the Law, will have the full & clear meaning & application of that Law placed into our hearts. How we respond to the Holy Spirit Who has placed the WHOLE Law (i.e. the Law that reveals righteousness) in our hearts is another matter about obedience. Whether or not we obey Him still does not deter from the fact that the righteousness contained within the Law has been given to us.
My not using 'abrogated' was intentional & not sneaky, as I try not to overuse words & phrases - yet the meaning should remain the same. Very perceptive of you to notice this.
And for the rest of your comments, I don't think I can adequately address them, as I note that you have not understood what I've said, hence you believe that I am "speaking from both sides of my mouth". And that's fine. I think if you've followed my other posts even from years ago, then the message & work of the Cross & the liberty we can enjoy as believers by life in the Holy Spirit, brings no contradiction or conflict. Where there can be conflict, is when I stand against an adherence to a Law never designed to give life, where the Work & Power of the Holy Spirit is never measured against the futility & temporariness of that Old Law, & when any claim of attaining a sinless life in the present is impossible in the light of the Scriptures, are raised.
And so with your closing words, I think that our understanding of God's Word in relation to these subjects at least, shows that in spite of the many Scriptures we've looked at, our understanding will always be at variance, & only further Light from the Spirit can reveal more & impress it upon our hearts. So God bless you Frankie J & I'll close this off here, as our writing has now drifted too far apart.
Israel of old in a way represents the natural man at his best.
They were a nation separated from a pagan Idolizing world and instructed by God with God in their midst.
They displays the nature of man who's joined to a living soul. (Adam).
(This is an example where religion does not save.)
Sin is not only what you do that condemns you. It's also who you are that condemns you. "A sinner!
Education about right on wrong can't save you, it can only convict you,
However, this lesson and conviction is necessary for the preparation of the Gospel. That's was their purpose.
There is only one that can save you and that's the last Adam. he is a quickening spirit. (Life giving Spirit.) Christ.
There has to be a transition from the first Adam to the last Adam and that is seen in baptism of the Holyspirit. Romans 6:3-4.
Look at the order of events here in Romans 6:22-23.
1st) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God,
2nd) ye have your fruit unto holiness,
3rd) and the end everlasting life.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. ( The Gift is eternal life by that life giving Spirit. Jesus)
Romans 8:11. speaks on the quickening spirit that raised Jesus from the dead quickening our mortal bodies to bare fruit unto life.
Romans 8:12-16 sums this all up.
"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:" This is the gift of eternal life shown in sanctification.
This is also what James is saying in James 2:17-18.
God bless.
Thank you for replying because I LOVE to talk about all things God. With that said I would like to address some things you said. "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?" Romans 8:32 KJV. This scripture shows that God is willing to give us knowledge and even understanding of His Ways! So, while there are somethings that I must "simply accept" but it isn't because my Father doesn't want to share them with me, I must "simply accept" because they are Too High for my puny mind to understand.
You also mention God's Commandment to Adam, and I see the point you're making; yet I ask you to "look" deeply at God's commandment to Adam. God gave a Commandment to Adam and satan deceived Eve, who in turn deceived Adam; do you think that satan was somehow able to infest The Garden outside THE KNOWLEDGE of GOD? Never! So, the only viable conclusion is that God "allowed" satan to be there! (Note: this isn't the same thing as giving permission). Therefore, we can conclude that God knew what would happen. So, it isn't that Satan subverted God, or that Adam ruined God's Plan; no, I can, with assurance, declare that it was Always The Plan of God that we fall! Remember, we are made in The Image of God and yet we were made unknowing of evil or good. God knows evil as well as good. Therefore, He "allowed" satan to give us the flesh (desire of evil) so that we may know and understand evil, so that when He Rescues us He may impart Goodness and then we will know and understand Good (the tree of the knowledge of evil and good) it was Always The Plan that we know and understand these things.
You've stated that my use of the word 'abrogation' isn't correct, rather you "look for the maturation of the old thing" (i.e. the Law). In one sense, I do agree to what you've stated that the old, through the gift Holy Spirit, has 'matured' into a New Law now applicable to the Saint. However, the way I look at the Old Law, hence my writing of its abrogation (abolishment), is that the Law was bound to the Old Covenant (there could be no separation at all). If a Jew continued to follow the words & compulsions of the Law, he was still under the Old Covenant & under it he would be judged. But under the New Covenant in Christ's Blood, the Old Covenant has been abolished with its requirements for rigid obedience to the Law that was intrinsic to it, with its resulting judgements. The Law that only led to death had to be abolished so that the Law that gives life ( Romans 8:2) might be established. The two could never be fused together.
So why are we seeing this differently? I agree to the Words of the Law given to Israel are everlasting & those words can certainly be applied under the New Covenant. Yet, it's not just the Words themselves, but the nature of the Old Covenant that is in question. The Words might be similar & applicable, but since the New Covenant supersedes the Old, the Old can only give the believer in Christ a 'skeletal' view of what God now requires of His children. And this, the Old Law could never show Israel - but only after Jesus came & then under the New Covenant, the Spirit can reveal the full meaning, implications, & requirement of God for holy living, now accomplished in His Power alone. This the Old Law could never do, for it wasn't in its design.
Who created the carnal mind? Did not God create man and give him a carnal mind? YES
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity (in direct rebellion) against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
God created the problem and God solved the problem by the death and resurrection of Christ.
The old was done away with; behold. ALL THINGS have become NEW.
1 Corinthians 2:16 .....We have the mind of Christ ......
The GOSPEL is about BELIEVING what GOD HAS DONE.
Christ bowed his head in DEATH and SAID it is FINISHED. Three days later Christ arose and ALL THINGS BECAME NEW.
God Bless YOU!
Your question would require a very long answer, beyond the scope of these pages, & you may have noticed that this matter is being presently addressed & does come up often here (because it is so important & often so misunderstood). So just a quick answer to your "quick question": when we read that the believer is 'freed, or delivered, from the Law' ( Romans 7:6), we should understand that to mean that the Law given to Israel has no more rule & binding on the one who is now 'IN Christ'.
So, those of Israel & of the Gentiles who have been saved by Christ's Blood, have entered into a New Covenant relationship (in His Blood), that not only abrogates that old Law that only revealed sin & ended in death ( Romans 7:9-11), but brings forth a New Law within this New Covenant that we are now to hear & obey. Where the Old Law written on stones demanded total obedience by one's own power or else face death, the New Law of the Spirit ( Romans 8:2) is now embedded deep in the believer, & now is given the Holy Spirit energized power to obey, not just a set of 10 Commandments, but all the Law of God. And this New Law covers every aspect of the believer's life, which means that God's Commands are no longer limited to a number, but the Spirit brings every thought, word or deed into the believer's spiritual view & applies conviction & understanding applicable to the individual.
So yes, the believer IN Christ, can never be "lawless", for if he is & seeks to live his life separate from the workings of God's Spirit in him, he should then question whether real salvation is his actual experience. And I would venture further to state, that a child of God, led of His Spirit in him, would hardly be able to go through his waking moments each day without regular testings & examinations by the All-searching, All-ministering Holy Spirit residing in him. Blessings.
You're changing the narrative to strengthen your point.
You said,
Just because you strive for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example does not mean you're trying to earn heaven.
We agree on striving for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example! When did you get that?
You also said, "You think the 10 commandments apply- obviously the argument that since Jesus it's ok to do "whatever" is a weak argument"
I've never heard anyone say that on this site, in fact for years we've made it very very clear that the commandments was Holy and they were to show man he is a sinner.
The emphasis has always been on man and his inability to keep the commandments and man's fallen sinful nature.
Is man sinful? Yes!
Has all sinned? Yes!
Romans 3:10
1 John 1:8-10.
Can the commandments make him right with God? No! Galatians 2:21.
It has never been anything close to an argument whether killing, stealing, adultery, ect was a sin or not on this site, and you know that.
There's plenty sins we make that is not listed in the 10 commandments, We sin in our mind and heart, Lack of patience and trust in God is a sin.
You can sin doing the right thing because you didn't want to. Our rebellious nature is sinful.
The Power of Christ resurrection didn't just atone for your sins, it also quickened you to live a live a productive life in Christ, pleasing to God. Romans 8:9-13.
And even with this power and energy from the Holyspirit you can't come from underneath the blood of Christ.
Scripture teaches if a man continues in sin he's not saved. You call that a straw man's argument. But I'm sure you will admit that all have sinned.
You've said no one knows whether they are saved or not until the judgment, But if we're saved by keeping the law it should be clear to you that we're all condemned considering the strictness of the law, then how do God judge his people? He'd have to compromise if Galatians 2:16 isn't true.
God bless.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1 KJV
No condemnation for who? "to them which are in Christ Jesus"
How about those who aren't really "in" Christ Jesus, but just familiar. Maybe someone's "saved" 30 years ago and inactive since? Maybe doing worldly things here and there, but hey we're all sinners, right? Maybe I'm just following the holy spirit, so its not my fault for indulging in sin sometimes, right?" [satan's deception]
"no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh"
"I'm still saved if I walk after the flesh though, right?"
"who walk not after the flesh"
This is a qualifier. It doesn't say there's no condemnation to anyone and everyone. It also says those who walk not after the flesh. Those who aren't actively, intentionally sinning. Sinning is turning your back on God. Sinning is like slapping Jesus in the face. Satan is trying to convince Christians that the law doesn't apply, that it's ok to sin. It's not ok. Sin leads to death and still will without Jesus. That is not a license to sin, however. Following Jesus means being a "slave" to righteousness- an intentional effort to take Jesus seriously and truly follow Him. Many say it, few do it. Just because you strive for righteousness and strive to walk in Jesus's example does not mean you're trying to earn heaven. This is the number one straw man argument people keep repeating over and over. Some even take it to the extreme where they say God doesn't want you to obey Him. "It's bad to obey God, and good to NOT obey Him." Who does that sound like?
Some cherry pick scripture and ignore the following and obedience part. We're still saved by grace.
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." Matthew 5:17 KJV
"not come to destroy"
Luke 6:46 - real followers obey
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
You wrote "Yes it is the 4th Commandment. Regarding the Sabbath scripturally, this is directly from God."
There are several scriptures here that do not lend support to your position regarding Christians having to maintain the Sabbath. Not to mention the entire book of Galatians weighing in on the law.
Colossians 2:16 (KJV) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
2 Corinthians 3:7-11 (AMP)
7 Now if the dispensation of death engraved in letters on stone [the ministration of the Law], was inaugurated with such glory and splendor that the Israelites were not able to look steadily at the face of Moses because of its brilliance, [a glory] that was to fade and pass away,
8 Why should not the dispensation of the Spirit [this spiritual ministry whose task it is to cause men to obtain and be governed by the Holy Spirit] be attended with much greater and more splendid glory?
9 For if the service that condemns [the ministration of doom] had glory, how infinitely more abounding in splendor and glory must be the service that makes righteous [the ministry that produces and fosters righteous living and right standing with God]!
10Indeed, in view of this fact, what once had splendor [the glory of the Law in the face of Moses] has come to have no splendor at all, because of the overwhelming glory that exceeds and excels it [the glory of the Gospel in the face of Jesus Christ].
11 For if that which was but passing and fading away came with splendor, how much more must that which remains and is permanent abide in glory and splendor!
Also, Romans 8:1-4 (KJV)
As the Apostle Paul stated in Romans 7:6, "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter", we see his affirmation of the futility of the Law when compared to the glory & permanence of life in obedience to the Holy Spirit. The Decalogue was simply a snapshot of some of God's Holy Requirements, & even in this short set of Commands, Israel failed miserably. But the Law given & empowered by the Spirit embraces all of God's Requirements, searching every area of a believer's heart & life, revealing sin & shortcomings, but enabling him to live unto God & not to the letter of the Law.
However, I'm not certain that the "majority of Christians do not believe the Law of Moses is binding upon believers today as a rule of life". From my experience, I've learned that many don't correctly understand this Truth.
What does taking up your cross and following Jesus imply.
DEATH, you have to DIE; yet, you are alive; this is the first death, dying to TRUTH, then the judgement: 1 Peter 4:17 The time is (NOW) come, that JUDGEMENT must begin at the HOUSE OF GOD (your the house of God, judged by the words of God).
Galatians 2:20 I am CRUCIFIED (you died on the cross) with Christ; yet I LIVE, yet NOT I, but CHRIST LIVETH in me (YOU are the body of Christ).
ONLY the BODY of Christ arose from the grave, the NEW CREATION, you are the BODY of Christ, you; flesh and blood, now longer exist, you DIED on the cross, only Christ RESURRECTED exist.
1 Timothy 6:16 Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the LIGHT ......
! Corinthians 15:54 ...this mortal shall put on IMMORTALITY (Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY) .....
1 Corinthians 15:49 As you have borne the IMAGE of the EARTHLY, you shall bear the IMAGE of the heavenly .....
Romans 8:29 ... being predestinated to be conformed TO THE IMAGE of CHRIST ....
John 17:22 And the glory that thou gavest me, I HAVE GIVEN THEM, that they may be ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE.
God Bless You!
You was saved from death 2000 years ago, when you were resurrected a NEW CREATION.
Christ (TRUTH) began revealing himself to you in 1979, this Revelation of "Christ in you" will continue until the angel ls sent to harvest HIS SEED.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they (YOU) DIE ANY MORE: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the CHILDREN of the RESURRECTION.
You are now in the birth pains of being born again.
Christ revealing who you are IN HIM.
1 Peter 1:23 Being BORN AGAIN ..... by the WORD(s) of GOD ...... TRUTH ......
Revelation 12:2 .... and she (YOU, Christ wife) being with child, travailing in birth, pained to be DELIVERED ......
1 Timothy 2:14 .... but the woman, being deceived (by a carnal mind) was in the TRANSGRESSION ....
1 Timothy 2:15 ..... she shall BE SAVED IN CHILDBEARING ...
Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron....
Philippians 2:5 Let this MIND be IN YOU, which was also in Christ Jesus
Philippians 2:6 Who being in the form (image) of God, thought it not robbery to equal to God.
1 Corinthians 2:16 ....we have the MIND of CHRIST ....
Romans 8:29 .... being predestinated (by the resurrection of Christ) to be conformed to his image .....
Revelation 2:26 And to him that overcometh (deception) and keepeth MY WORKS, to him will I give power over the nations .....
God bless you
Romans 8:7 For the CARNAL MIND is ENMITY (in direct rebellion) against God (the WORD) ....
Most Christians are STILL under the influence of a carnal mind (Satan, deceptions, falsehoods).
Christ is TRUTH, anything not of TRUTH is ANTI-christ.
Isaiah 55:8 ....MY thoughts (the mind of Christ) are not your thoughts (the carnal mind, ANTI-christ) ......
Isaiah 59:7 ..... their thoughts (the carnal mind) are thoughts of iniquity ......
Luke 15:30 And as soon as this thy son was come, which has devoured thy living with HARLOTS, thou hast killed FOR HIM the fatted calf.
Matthew 21:31..... HARLOTS go into the kingdom of heaven before you .....
Hosea 4:14 I WILL NOT punish your daughters when they commit whoredom, nor you spouses when they commit adultery: for themselves (those with carnal minds) are seperated with whores, and they (the carnal minded) sacrifice with harlots: therefore the people that DOETH NOT UNDERSTAND SHALL FALL.
The carnal mind WILL NOT understand these scriptures, it takes the mind of Christ to understand God's parables.
God bless you
it is written in Proverbs 20:28
28.Mercy and truth preserve the king:
And his throne is upholden by mercy.
-What I am pointing out to you is this
The soul can make one Love or Live right before men, while before God the Living God who made the heavens we are sinning thinking we are right with Him.
Remember even the thief who steals and murder says he is a good person who is able to love and live well, moreover during burial no one stands and says this dead person was a sinner but you will hear he is a good person.
-For all are in the soulish and not in the spirit
Bear this in mind as it is written in John 4:23-24
23.But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24.God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
And if one has repented of his sins at the cross in Jesus Christ the Son of the living God, Instead of doing everything to please himself. he lives to glorify God whether he eat or drink all he does is in the glory of God.
as it is written in 1 Corinthians 10:31
31.Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
Therefore Worship God in Spirit and Let God lead you He knows how, He will teach you if you ask by prayer God is faithful.
Remember
it is written in romans 8:14
14.For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
- Let us hear the conclusion of this matter
Yes we see people love in the soulish in fact people marry for long years but the marriages are either very shaky and majority end up in divorce
we see father loving their kids and mothers loving their kids and the kids likewise love their parents and at the end there is not true compassion and the love is a love of gain.
read part 3
Don't look back with regrets; what you call mistakes, God calls a learning experience to gain knowledge.
Josephs brothers thought that they made a mistake and had regrets, Joseph, in the wisdom of God SAID:
Genesis 50:20 But as for you, you thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to SAVE MUCH PEOPLE ALIVE.
2 Corinthians 5:18 ALL THINGS (even what we deem as mistakes) ARE OF GOD, who hath reconciled (a completed ACT) us unto himself by (the resurrection) of Jesus Christ, and hath given us the ministry (KNOWLEDGE) of reconciliation.
Romans 8:7 The carnal mind is ENMITY (in direct rebellion) against God (the WORD) .........
God Bless You
And when His Son paid sin's price, the Letter of the Law had no more hold on those who looked to Him & not to the Letter to save them. God's Spirit was given to believers, who would now be subject to the Spirit: "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death" ( Romans 8:2). So, the letter of the Bible is NOT a stumbling block; it is the very Word of God, given by the Spirit & enabling that Word to be applied to the believer. If we dismiss the Word of God as just being 'a letter (a tree if knowledge)', then we must also dismiss that the Word is "God-breathed", yet we must obey it 'to the letter'. If we don't, then we can do whatever we want with it, even as we see the behavior of many so-called believers. Let's not try to be so tuned to the Spirit so as to avoid the very Words that the Spirit has given us for our understanding & obedience. The Holy Spirit will never ask us to do or behave in a way that is inconsistent with the revealed Word of God.
As far as the 'root of sin being the sound of words by a lying tongue', the Devil might be the author of sin, but we can (as the Lord Himself did) choose to listen & obey him or not. Sin lies at our door - the door of our heart.
Veronicagt7
No, absolutely no, only who really follows JESUS and believe in Him understand of this I'm testifying. Keeping the sabath is a mere human formality of those who bear false witness through an evil and sectarian spirit, and insists on contradicting what JESUS said.
JESUS said(I also speak like Him)- Matthew 11: 12-15: -> 13 For all the prophets and the LAW prophesied until John (the Baptist).
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the Kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
That said, who really follows JESUS and believe in Him speaks as He speaks because has the Spirit of Christ. JESUS said: John 7:38 - He that believeth on me, as the SCRIPTURE hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. By the way, "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His"- Romans 8:9.
Actually, JESUS worked on the Sabbath and the Father also worked- John 5:17.
The Jews sought the more to kill JESUS, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that GOD was His Father, making himself equal with God- John 5:18.
Now, in the current time, in this end of the times, the contradicting preachers of the Sabbath keeping sects, try to lead astray and kill the true believers in JESUS by replacing the spirit of Christ that is in them by their sectarian spirit, evil and hypocrite, and they compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, they make him twofold more the child of hell than themselves, as we can see in this present time in those which atend the temple of sects in this current time.
Be careful or then get ready, for "the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in this latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils- 1Timothy 4:1. (devils? John 6:70-71 and Luke 22:3. Take a look.).
All of John Chapter 13 ; Chapter 14
John 1:4 "In him was life; and the life was the light of men."
Colossians 1:15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature."
Romans 8:32 "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?"
Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory and express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
Romans 8:29 "For whom he did foreknowledge, he did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first born among many brethren."
1 Corinthians 1:29 "That no flesh glory in his presence"
John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we behold his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
Luke 1:31 "And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS."
Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privileges."
Isaiah 53:1 "Who hat believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?"
Philippians 2:5 - 6 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God."
Hebrews 6:20 "Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest after the order of Melchisedec."
P2 follows
Only when a person has been born again by God's Spirit ( John 3:3), can that person be in a new revived position of receiving & giving communication to our Heavenly Father. God sends His Spirit to be with us & in us ( John 14:17), but His Spirit doesn't replace our spirit, nor does He overrule us to the extent that we cease to think & behave as ordinary people. So, when He ministers to us (whether in decision-making, personal conduct, in worship, in understanding the Word, etc.), it becomes our choice as to whether we allow His gentle & precise ministry to influence us or not. Sadly, we often allow carnal thoughts or pre-conceived ideas or beliefs to take precedent over His, much to our detriment. But when we are truly walking (& worshiping in the Spirit) - Galatians 5:16,25 - then we will truly know His Peace, that which 'surpasses all our understanding & inclinations' ( Philippians 4:7), joyfully allowing Him to lead us, especially in worship & in faith, for all we experience.
Your questions 'to which spirit'? Our spirit is never laid aside in the functioning of man - our faculties are always in force. It is how much we allow the Holy Spirit to take control in our lives, our worship, even 'wisdom in allowing others into our lives' ( Romans 8:1-28).
"It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not." ( Lamentations 3:22)
...and in the wilderness where you saw how the LORD your God carried you, as a man carries his son, in all the way that you went until you came to this place.' ( Deuteronomy 1:31)
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. ( Romans 5:8)
The mercy of God and His lovingkindness are something that never pass; or grow old. It is something to daily praise Him for no matter what the circumstances as we know that we shall indeed be in His presence someday; and out of these old bodies whether by Rapture or Resurrection. He has secured us for all eternity. As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. ( Psalm 103:12). As believers he has replaced our heart of stone with a heart of flesh ( Ezekiel 36:26). His children are sanctified and inevitably glorified ( Romans 8:30). Whether we consider the Israelites physically delivered from Egypt's bondage to the Promised Land; or our own delivery from the earth to heaven the Spirit seals believers with this "down payment" ( Eph. 1:13).
WORD OF WARNING
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. ( Matt. 5:45).
This verse is related to previous ones speaking of loving our enemies as part of the Sermon on the Mount. Christ shared close ties with Judas Iscariot; according to Psalm 41:9 "Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me." The unregenerate enjoy for a time the creation in this life but attribute their blessings to what they consider the "goodness" of their heart; their accomplishments; merits; accolades etc. See Ecclesiastes 8:11 for a warning on delayed judgment; also see Galatians 6:7.
Your will above all else, my purpose remains
The art of losing myself in bringing you praise
Phillips Craig and Dean from the song From the Inside Out (Fearless Album)
Proverbs 16:9 shows that man makes plans but the Lord orders his steps. Our best attempts at determining what is right even as Christians can't possibly take into account the bad things that happen and just how the Lord will use those things for our good for those who love God and are called according to His purposes ( Romans 8:28). Time and again the Lord has shown in scripture as well as today that martyrs ultimately serve a greater purpose; it such as Jim Elliot martyred with his friends in the jungle and the efforts of his wife and others afterwards with the resulting fruit of their efforts in converts.
Dying to self may or may not demand a complete change in trajectory as to our vocation or living situation. God makes it clear that those married to unbelievers are not to depart unless forced by the other person. We are also to work heartily unto the Lord ( Col. 3:23-24) and in fact; if we don't work we don't eat ( 2 Thessalonians 3:10). Luke 10:7 shows how the workman is worthy of his hire at least in terms of ministry but Paul supplemented support through tentmaking as to not be a burden to others. Obviously; as with the woman caught in adultery ( John 8:1-11) there had to be an end to sin therefore a radical change in lifestyle and by default cutting off many social ties. Whether we can be a witness or former associates post conversion are a detriment is based on several factors in individual situations. Clearly any criminal sources of income have to be ended; and we should make restitution whenever possible for those we have offended (see Ephesians 4:28; implied in doing good with what is earned).
As to our affections being set on things above ( Colossians 3:3-10) it is an ongoing process. As an onion each layer of self is peeled away.
The verses you stated from Jeremiah are also used by Paul in Hebrews 9:8-12. Paul considers this new covenant to Israel that Jeremiah is taking about is the New Testament that God introduced firstly to Hebrews and then to the rest of the world. But Jews didn't receive Jesus, and consequently God, so their House was left abandoned by God. Until when? Until they repend for crucifying Jesus and ask for Him. When is this going to occur? At the very end. Paul in Rom 11:25-27 says that they will be saved after the fullness of the nations will come in (the salvation).
So who are the elect now? Romans 8:30-32,
"30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of GOD'S ELECT? It is God that justifieth."
Please pay attention to the above verse 33.
God's intention when creating the Hebrew nation through Abraham was not to have a superior race than the rest who will conquer the world. His aim is to create a nation which will preserve the faith to the true God, through which at the proper time the Savior would erect to sacrifice Himself for the salvation of all people. In God's mind was the whole mankind not just a race.
So He established the church on Pentecost
Ephessians 2:14-17,
"14For he is our peace, who hath made both (Jews and gentiles) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
GBU"
Continuing with the thought on deliverance; there are verses which state we are not to be hasty in laying on of hands with someone ( 1 Tim. 5:22). Obviously; the extended conversations with demons that are almost always on camera are not needed most of the time based on how Christ operated. It is often obvious this is for entertainment value; and certainly isn't helpful if someone is in need of deliverance to toy with the demons in them or keep them waiting. It is rare but not unheard of to see a person who is going through great grief be prayed for that is NOT possessed; or perhaps just oppressed.
If we look at the example of the parable of the seed and sower in Matthew 13:20 we see immediate joy at the Word without a root. Nonetheless we are to confess with our mouth AND believe in our heart that Christ is Lord; both mind and soul are involved. ( Romans 10:9). Since our heart is deceitful ( Jeremiah 17:9) above all things and desperately wicked; we need a new heart as Ezekiel 36:26 states. I have pointed out before that unless we realize that we are being delivered from an enmity with God we aren't going to be drawn toward Christ; we are going to shrink back and eventually fall away. ( Romans 8:7 as well as in many other passages!) BUT; as with anything else joy is the second attribute of good fruit that the Spirit MUST begin to place in our souls after love as the first ( Gal. 5:22). Note that the THIRD attribute is peace; so if we are truly saved we start to overcome fear; on the other hand there is no peace for the wicked. ( Isaiah 48:22; and other parts of Isaiah and Psalms; etc.)
Part of maturity in Christ is knowing the difference between spiritual fruit and our emotions. Seeing Paul's example of joy in extreme suffering certainly is a good example of this as well as Christ's love for us that He would suffer as He did to fulfill the Father's will.
Fellowship should balance mind and heart worship rightly
For it has been granted to you not only to believe in Christ but also to suffer for him (Phillipians 1:29). Acts 5:41 is in a similar vein; namely being thankful for being worthy to be persecuted in His name; which is promised for all true believers. ( 2 Tim. 3:12; etal). The promise of being chastised if we are a true child of God and other sufferings aren't exactly the first thing we focus on
when it comes to God's promises. But of course if we consider these hard sayings first; we can learn to appreciate the more pleasurable promises in a greater way.
The opposite is true of course; in light of Hebrews 11:25. Sin runs its course of earthly pleasures; which lead up to eternal condemnation. For God's children; however there are pleasures evermore in His right hand ( Psalm 16:11). The fullness of life is also mentioned in that verse which corresponds with John 10:10 in living life to the full. Food and clothing are promised in the Gospels ( Matt. 6:25); (compare with 1 Kings 17:6 where the ravens brought Elijah food). Notice that shelter or a place to rest His head is mentioned as lacking in Matthew 8:20; which made some turn away from following Him. Surely Christ Himself did stay in peoples' homes for short interludes; but He also spent many nights on mountains in prayer; or sleeping on a boat.
Much prayer; of course seems to be edifying when focused on fulfilling the Great Commission. God states in Isaiah 55:11; that His word will not go out void; but accomplish His purposes. If we are doing His work; then we can be sure to reap what we sow; in terms of reward (see Psalm 126:5). Heavenly treasures are a promise for those who are serving out of a pure heart (see 2 Timothy 4:7-8). Therefore; the end ouf our sufferings in Christ will bring eternal glory that outweighs anything on earth. (see Romans 8:18). 2 Corinthians 4:17-18 also discusses "momentary afflictions" that don't compare to heavenly bliss.
You quote Job 39:12 and you assign the "seed" to being the word of God. What you are doing is 'spiritualising' a statement of God to Job that was a literal question being put to Job by God that required from Job a literal answer. As Job had none aren't you being somewhat presumptuous here in your claims as to what the seed and the barn mean? An illustration of God's questioning of Job is shown in the verses below:
Job 39:1 "Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth [their offspring]? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve? 2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil [their gestation]? or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?"
Anyone can spiritualise scripture to make it say whatever they want it to say - but it doesn't mean that it is true. Therefore, I reject what you say about this verse.
In regards to your view on John 12:24, although Jesus compares Himself to a grain of wheat as you say, His death was aimed to bring "many sons to glory" ( Hebrews 2:10) through the new birth ( John 3:3-8). Jesus could not establish a glorious church on Earth through His people unless He died and was glorified ( John 7:37-39; Acts 2:33; Eph. 1). Christians today are expected to die as Christ did - but NOT in the physical sense but in the spiritual sense:
- In this, we are to crucify our 'Old Man' nature until "he" is DEAD - Romans 6:6.-
- If we haven't, then spiritually speaking, God sees us as "walking in the flesh" ( Romans 8:1, 7).
However, if we are truly "born-again", we will share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with others so as to bring more lost souls into God's kingdom. By doing this, we (as being that "corn of wheat) will then "...bringeth forth much fruit" - meaning, the lost souls into God's kingdom through personal evangelism, "...some [corns'] an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. 9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear!" ( Matt 13:3-9).
That's how I see it, Plaintalk.
I believe Richard H Priday provided another good example of answering your question where he said:
"God did create hell as well; but originally it was meant for the Devil and his angels. ( Matt. 25:41). Clearly; men enter in there because they are following their master; namely Satan rather than God. Therefore; all things work out for the good for those who love God ( Romans 8:28); but conversely; there is no peace for the wicked ( Isaiah 48:22; other passages)."
For you to reject these Bible-based 'Contrasts' depicted in the Bible to then ask questions like:
- Would you agree that whenever Light enters darkness, the darkness is abolished?
- If yes, then if God is darkness as He is Light, then He must be capable of abolishing Himself.
- Light abolishes darkness merely by showing us the darkness is not there. If this is true and God is responsible and the Source for both Light and darkness, then He would literally abolish Himself into non existence.
COMMENT: It seems your desire is to enter into "...foolish questions...and contentions" that I am not prepared to enter into on the following basis:
"But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain." ( Titus 3:9)
Sorry, One eighty, but I m trying to be helpful here and not offensive.
God did create hell as well; but originally it was meant for the Devil and his angels. ( Matt. 25:41). Clearly; men enter in there because they are following their master; namely Satan rather than God. Therefore; all things work out for the good for those who love God ( Romans 8:28); but conversely; there is no peace for the wicked ( Isaiah 48:22; other passages).
Those who truly know Christ have already gone from darkness into light ( 1 Peter 2:9; etal). We also are able to escape any of the second death ( Rev. 20:7). It is in men's hearts where the god of this world has blinded them; not in the physical realm at this time ( 2 Cor. 4:4). Therefore the darkness of spiritual blindness is basically the essence of evil; so in that sense if we aren't careful what we consider light is really darkness ( Luke 11:35).
Deuteronomy 29:29 shows how we can't fathom God's hidden counsel.
In more careful investigation of scripture; it appears that there are accounts that clearly delineate happenings that occur within a 24 hour day; and others that continue a narrative that may or may not encompass multiple days or perhaps longer periods of time. I thought therefore that a general study of the variety of challenges the Lord faced constantly; along with the spiritual giftings of all types apparent to be active simultaneously ( Colossians 2:9) would be interesting as He had all the "fullness of the Godhead bodily."
His example; therefore as our High Priest ( Heb. 7:25; etc) means that we can live by His example and thus be "imitators of Christ" ( 1 Cor. 11:1). This; of course is easier said than done; impossible in fact in our own efforts ( John 15:5).
Paul; of course is a great; if not THE penultimate example of a surrendered life; and in many ways mirrors Christ in self sacrificial love and service to the church; through many trials; persecutions; and sufferings. These studies should convince anyone who isn't in a coma that today's mushy view of Christ as embodying some sort of feel good; crowd pleasing charisma that everyone loved is far off from reality. This study is greatly challenging to myself; and I assume anyone reading these scriptures as to what is truly required to be His Disciple. Ultimately; I believe this will be a characteristic of every true believer in some aspects; but in reality few surrender their lives enough to truly live in this manner. It is more than an inconvenient truth; the challenges Christ gives to all His followers but of course is as process in some ways as well. The Spirit sanctifies us; conforming us into His image ( Romans 8:29). Philippians 4:1 and some other verses shows us how His church was Paul's crown. This makes our rewards to be based on building up brothers and sisters in the Lord; and to focus attention there keeps us from focusing on our own issues.
My not using 'abrogated' was intentional & not sneaky, as I try not to overuse words & phrases - yet the meaning should remain the same. Very perceptive of you to notice this.
And for the rest of your comments, I don't think I can adequately address them, as I note that you have not understood what I've said, hence you believe that I am "speaking from both sides of my mouth". And that's fine. I think if you've followed my other posts even from years ago, then the message & work of the Cross & the liberty we can enjoy as believers by life in the Holy Spirit, brings no contradiction or conflict. Where there can be conflict, is when I stand against an adherence to a Law never designed to give life, where the Work & Power of the Holy Spirit is never measured against the futility & temporariness of that Old Law, & when any claim of attaining a sinless life in the present is impossible in the light of the Scriptures, are raised.
And so with your closing words, I think that our understanding of God's Word in relation to these subjects at least, shows that in spite of the many Scriptures we've looked at, our understanding will always be at variance, & only further Light from the Spirit can reveal more & impress it upon our hearts. So God bless you Frankie J & I'll close this off here, as our writing has now drifted too far apart.