Thank you Michael for that clear & concise response. If the foundations of biblical teaching or doctrine are not properly laid, the building cracks will develop & bring destruction. I find that many Christians, whether because of Church teaching or from their own surmisings, look at Scriptures such as John 14:15 & immediately apply the obedience to the Law for all people, that which was given only to Israel.
To do so, several things have to be overlooked or rejected: to whom was God speaking in the OT & to whom was Jesus speaking prior to His crucifixion? Only to Israel, none else. Gentiles weren't even in the picture pertaining to the Law & never have been. What was the reason for giving the Law? God's code of conduct (spiritual, moral & social) for His people, His Mark of separation from the heathen - Leviticus 26:46, (as also with circumcision: Genesis 17:10), & to demonstrate to Israel a godly standard that as sinners they could never fully obey ( Galatians 3:21-26).
But then we get verses such as Matthew 5:17-19 which are often used to support the eternal nature & applicability of the Law to all people. To those under the Law, indeed, the Law is current & will be used against them. To those who have escaped the curse of the Law & have found new life in Christ, have learned that Christ has indeed fulfilled all the Law, forever abrogating it & thru His Death ushered in a new & better Covenant ( Hebrews 8:6-13).
What then do we do with Scriptures (e.g. 1 John 5:2,3) that say we must obey God's commandments? Are John & others pointing the believer back to the letter of the Law that kills or rather to the Spirit Who gives life ( 2 Corinthians 3:6)? It is the Spirit's Law in our hearts that frees us from the Law of sin & death ( Romans 8:2). To give consent to both, that which is opposed to each other, weakens (even negates) the power of the New Covenant through Christ's Blood & the keeping of the Sabbath ever stands as a centrepiece to
You are ignoring tons of scripture regarding God's Commandments.....
I will comment on a few of your comments.
You ask - What then do we do with Scriptures (e.g. 1 John 5:2,3) that say we must obey God's commandments? That is a good question! If we believe what you are saying, then we need to ignore this scripture. In addition, there is a multitude of scripture including scripture from Jesus that asks us to follow God's commandments, are we to ignore all of this scripture too?
Yes, we must obey God's commandments. When we fail and sin, which all will, we can now be forgiven though Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ's death does NOT cancel God's commandments. God's commandments guide us and provides moral direction. Yes, apostle John and others followed Gods commandments and based on their scripture we should be doing the same.
You ask - Are John & others pointing the believer back to the letter of the Law that kills or rather to the Spirit Who gives life ( 2 Corinthians 3:6)? Yes, John and others are pointing back to the Law/10 Commandments. There is no easy way to get to heaven. If we ignore the commandments and live in sin....we perish!
You quote this scripture: It is the Spirit's Law in our hearts that frees us from the Law of sin & death ( Romans 8:2). This scripture from Paul sounds great but it does NOT provide us with a free ticket to sin. The scripture is about the Spirts Law - is the Holy Spirit residing in our heart that helps us to avoid sin.
You state: To give consent to both, that which is opposed to each other, weakens (even negates) the power of the New Covenant through Christ's Blood & the keeping of the Sabbath ever stands as a centrepiece to cause both error & division.
Ok, so we can believe in the new modern popular doctrine pointing to minimizing or eliminating the need to observe God's commandments or we can be (old fashioned) and believe in the bible and the 10 Commandments. I choose the latter.
Thank you Michael for that clear & concise response. If the foundations of biblical teaching or doctrine are not properly laid, the building cracks will develop & bring destruction. I find that many Christians, whether because of Church teaching or from their own surmisings, look at Scriptures such as John 14:15 & immediately apply the obedience to the Law for all people, that which was given only to Israel.
To do so, several things have to be overlooked or rejected: to whom was God speaking in the OT & to whom was Jesus speaking prior to His crucifixion? Only to Israel, none else. Gentiles weren't even in the picture pertaining to the Law & never have been. What was the reason for giving the Law? God's code of conduct (spiritual, moral & social) for His people, His Mark of separation from the heathen - Leviticus 26:46, (as also with circumcision: Genesis 17:10), & to demonstrate to Israel a godly standard that as sinners they could never fully obey ( Galatians 3:21-26).
But then we get verses such as Matthew 5:17-19 which are often used to support the eternal nature & applicability of the Law to all people. To those under the Law, indeed, the Law is current & will be used against them. To those who have escaped the curse of the Law & have found new life in Christ, have learned that Christ has indeed fulfilled all the Law, forever abrogating it & thru His Death ushered in a new & better Covenant ( Hebrews 8:6-13).
What then do we do with Scriptures (e.g. 1 John 5:2,3) that say we must obey God's commandments? Are John & others pointing the believer back to the letter of the Law that kills or rather to the Spirit Who gives life ( 2 Corinthians 3:6)? It is the Spirit's Law in our hearts that frees us from the Law of sin & death ( Romans 8:2). To give consent to both, that which is opposed to each other, weakens (even negates) the power of the New Covenant through Christ's Blood & the keeping of the Sabbath ever stands as a centrepiece to cause both error & division.
I don't think anyone here has ever said Jesus Christ is God the Father. He is the only begotten Son of God. Like you stated flesh from being born of Mary. Though no virgin can give birth to a person. They must be conceived. The Holy Ghost is what conceived Mary. The Holy Ghost is of God. Jesus Christ was not just a human like you or me. He was part human part God.
I was wondering if it was the same Rob I have had conversations before about the divinity of Christ. In your question about "God not being flesh". Which I believe we all know. Also has nothing to do with Jesus Christ being God the Son.
He is on the right hand of God. Nothing is above Him and everything is below Him. Just as God the Father as they are ONE. Also the He existed before the world was.
As I might as well bring this up as well as I know some believe this view. That Jesus Christ received the Holy Ghost at His baptism in the Jordan. Maybe because of the vision John saw of the Spirit descending upon Him. Which to me was just for a testimony. Also as God spoke from Heaven. John the baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb as in Luke 1:15. I don't understand how anyone could think the Holy Ghost/Spirit of God was not with Jesus Christ from His mothers womb also. Also in that John was born of two human parents. Not as Christ in that God is His real Father. Even showing Jesus knew he was the Son of God in Luke 2:49. As we who are born again, knowing God is our Father, receiving the the Holy Spirit of adoption as in Romans 8:15-16. Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God and ONE with God the Father. Along with the Holy Ghost. 1 John 5:7.
No one said anyone gave anything to God the Father.
There's 128 verses with flesh, in the New Testament KJV
1 Corinthians 15:39
All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
Revelation 19:18
That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:12
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
2 Corinthians
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
Philippians 3:4
Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Ephesians 2:11
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Mark 10:8
And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
2 Corinthians 5:16
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
i don't see anywhere in this tread where someone said the the sabbath was moved to Sunday, in fact we Adam said made it clear "Sounds like gathering on the first day ( Acts 20:7) of the week to worship is being confused with observing the Sabbath." in other words we're not saying that.
We're saying they gathered on the 1st day of the week.
following Christ is a 24/7 lifestyle that the Holyspirit moves you to do, not the 10 commandments, so yes Saturday is a Holy Day and so is the other 6 days. I also don't see where I or anyone said the 10 commandments was abolished, but I gave you Colossians 2:14-17 (KJV) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
What Paul is saying here is what he said in Romans 7:9.For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And Romans 8:3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
And where did we judge you?
Romans 14:4. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Linda, May CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
I AGREE AND BELIEVE everything Jesse said in his comment to you. I will expand MY BELIEF a little more.
I BELIEVE that Christ; with the elect, are and will judge the world (Satan's kingdom that Christ took back at HIS resurrection). ( Matthew 4:8-9) ( Revelation 11:15) ( 1 Corinthians 6:2) ( 1 Peter 4:17)
I BELIEVE the parable of the workers; those called to work in God's vineyard, are the elect. Those called in the first hour are the apostles and others that took part in Pentecost. Since that first hour other workers have been called; till the present hour. Ourselves now being judged by the word of God; by our brothers before us, they being ONE IN CHRIST; have also become THE WORD, the BOOKS. ( Revelation 20:12) ( Revelation 20:4)
Matthew 19:28
Romans 11:31-32
Romans 8:19 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the creature WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION of the Son of God.
Romans 8:21 Because the creature ITSELF ALSO shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption unto the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Revelation 10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me. thou must PROPHECY AGAIN before many peoples, and nations,and tongues,and kings.
I BELIEVE at the departure of this body we will be given THE FULLNESS OF GOD; which also will be HIS BODY, OMNIPRESENT able to judge others as he now judges us.
Amen. In Christianity I hear a lot about how God is a friend, like a buddy you can talk to or just hang out with, or like a psychologist who just listens to you all day, or like a genie in a lamp who is there to bless your life, to fix all your problems, and serve you. I personally don't believe it. I think if that were true Jesus would have said so, but instead we have Jesus warning his followers (Christians) over and over to obey His commandments and to fear God. Matthew 10:28
Fear is the opposite of love as the Bible says and we shall not be in bondage with fear ( Romans 8:15), but it definitely says to fear God, which I think includes a very high level of respect to Him. I think a portion of Christians don't respect God or fear Him like the Bible says and instead I actually hear them use God's name in vain, and just say petty things to God, act demanding, and throw a tantrum when they doen't get their way. But God doesn't exist to serve them, but the opposite.
To Deborah Kuradal on Romans 8: God is perfect in masculinity. Jesus called Him His Father. Jesus even said, "Who is my mother, or by brother, or my sister...but they who do the will of My Father. God is not a man that He should lie. He is our Creator and God. Thank you Heavenly Father! Holy to the LORD!
Walt, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
Man didn't start with eve; man started with Christ. Adam was just a shadow of the TRUE FIRST MAN CREATED.
Revelation 3:14 .... the faithful and true witness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD...
The true witness is Christ.
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness....
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the BEGINNING and the ENDING....
Jesus was the first man created; and when HIS WORKS are finished, He will be the LAST MAN created.
Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, and THEY ARE CREATED; and thou renewest the face of the earth.
Psalms 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which SHALL BE CREATED shall praise the Lord.
Romans 8:29 For whom he (GOD) did foreknow (ALL CREATION), he also did predestinate to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, that he (THE SON) might be the firstborn (FIRST MAN OF CREATION) among many brethren (LAST MAN OF CREATION).
Daniel, may the Spirit grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
You ask why Jacob is bad mouthed so much in the church (most have worldly wisdom)?
Why is Judas bad mouthed so much in the church? Was not he one of the chosen? Did he not perform the job he was chosen for, just as Pharaoh, also Esau and Jacob as well as us today; we being used also by God to do HIS WORKS.
Romans 9
You would not have a saviour if you didn't have a Judas. Do you not think Our LORD is not doing these same kind of WORKS today? In all of history God uses man to do HIS WORKS, just and unjust.
Isaiah 10
But God has already provided for their return to the kingdom.
Romans 8:19-21 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the CREATURE WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD.
(vs 20) For the creature was made SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
(vs 21) BECAUSE THE CREATURE ITSELF ALSO SHALL BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (death) UNTO THE LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD.
Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come upon Mt. Zion to judge the Mt. of Esau, and the kingdom shall be the Lords.
Yes, the bible is based on race from Genesis to Revelation. I know this from studying the bible with the Strong's Concordance. It is written to Adamkind only.
Every Day with The Holy Spirit on Romans 13 - 3 years ago
Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the RIGHT HAND OF GOD, who also maketh intercession for us.
Romans 8:27
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he (Jesus) makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
He is in heaven where the above scriptures say what He is doing. When this age closes, the Father will tell the Bridegroom to go get His Bride.
The Holy Spirit is on earth now performing His ministry. Jesus went to the Cross to give believers the Holy Spirit who indwells each believer with the spirit of Christ.
He comforts, teaches, baptizes, speaks, strives with sinners, creates, renews, convicts, anoints, guides, empowers, sanctifies, gives gifts, illuminates, reveals truth of God, and much more.
After the "caught up in the clouds", of the Church, His ministry will be diminished.
I would say I have a close relationship with Him. I pray, talk with, worship Jesus, read huge chunks of the Bible daily, sit still until He teaches me what I just read; He sharpens my spiritual discernment, corrects me often. I cannot express the inner JOY it is, to covet being in His presence. He speaks to me at home, in the car, taking a walk. He gives words of knowledge and words of wisdom; verses to go look up.
If you are daily crucifying your flesh so you may walk in the spirit, you too will experience this joy. I like to get in my closet, sit under the clothes and practice intense listening.
Get to know Him! He's a real Person who happens to be invisible to our eyes; but visible in the spirit; to hearts and to our spirit inside, ears. The Bible says God is a consuming fire. The fire of His love for us burns steady. How is yours?
Turn off the noise of the world for a little while, and get to know the ways of the Holy Spirit.
Sarah, may the Spirit grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
Ecclesiastes 3:11 He hath made everything beautiful in his time: also he has set the world in their heart, that no man can find out the WORK THAT GOD MAKETH from the beginning to the end.
Isaiah 28:21 .....that he may do HIS WORK, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
The tree of (the) knowledge of GOOD and EVIL. One tree, two fruits within themselves. You can't eat one without eating the other.
Children are born without knowledge; the FATHER tells them DO NOT touch the stove, it's hot. HOW CAN THEY BELIEVE, they don't know what hot is. So the FATHER has to teach knowledge through the experience of extremes found in the world. GOOD AND EVIL; but also HOPE.
Romans 8:20 For the creature (creation) was made SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in HOPE.
In God's strange act he is choosing a FEW to become Sons of God; that they with him will deliver the rest of creation from corruption.
Romans 8:19 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the creature waiteth for the MANIFESTATION of the SONS OF GOD.
Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself shall ALSO BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (death) into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Jeanette, may the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, SOLD under sin.
We were naturally born flesh and blood; but a body of flesh and blood cannot obtain the spiritual world (the likeness of Christ). Christ came in the likeness of us (sinful flesh) to REDEEM (exchange our body of flesh for his body of GLORY or a glorified body).
Romans 8:6 To be carnally minded (unbelief) is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded (believing) is life (you never die you just change bodies; you are glorified with Christ, you are REDEEMED.
John 17:21-22
All this was made possible by HIS WORK ON THE CROSS AND HIS RESURRECTION. He was made like you so that you and him could die together and you and him could be resurrected together; now in THE LIKENESS OF CHRIST to live a life without sin (love God above all and your brothers and enemies as yourself)
Msconnie, may the Spirit (truth) grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
Very FEW understand the kingdom or heaven or HEAVEN or THE GOSPEL or the good news.
WHERE DOES GOD DWELL?
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God IS WITHIN YOU.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God DWELLETH in you?
1 Kings 8:27 But will God indeed DWELL ON THE EARTH? behold the HEAVEN and HEAVEN OF HEAVENS cannot contain THEE; how much less this HOUSE (TEMPLE) that I have builded?
Hebrews 3:6 For Christ is a Son over his own HOUSE; whose HOUSE WE ARE....
Hebrews 9:1-2 .....WE have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the THRONE ( Isaiah 66:1) of the majesty in the HEAVENS; (YOU)
(vs 2) A minister of the sanctuary, and TRUE TABERNACLE, which the Lord pitched and not man.
Psalms 148:4 Praise him, YE HEAVEN OF HEAVENS...
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in HEAVEN....
Hebrews 12:23
Romans 8:29
Colossians 1:27 .....CHRIST IN YOU
You never die if ye are born of the SPIRIT you just change bodies.
Thank you brother Carleton, for sharing that very deep, thought-provoking message; I had to read it several times to properly comprehend it.
The 'heart' of course is such an immaterial concept, so we who live in a see/touch dimension find it difficult to understand & identify. I can best equate it to the residence of our spirit and to which place, the Holy Spirit is also found in all those who believe. And even though the Spirit continues to affect our spirits in many ways to the end of forming "Christ in us", sadly our minds tend to run riot at times, entertaining fleshly pursuits, affecting our spirit. And so the continual urging to "be renewed in the spirit of your mind" ( Ephesians 4:23) & Romans 12:2: "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God" must be our constant pursuit.
And if being "carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace" ( Romans 8:6), our minds must be specially affected by the Holy Spirit - and for that to happen, we put away sins in the mind & invite the Spirit to replace them with all that is pure & holy. And even in our struggles in the flesh, we know that "it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" ( Philippians 2:13) & that work will never cease for it is God's Will & for His Joy for our holiness & bearing His Son's Image.
I am so sorry to hear about your situation, it is very sad. But keep on praying. You have the right approach to not fight yourself, but let God do the fighting for you.
Romans 8:31 "What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?"
1 John 4:4 "Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world."
Karen, may the SPIRIT grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
The BIG QUESTION? If you don't accept Christ in your physical life time are you cut off forever? Or go to hell?
Most BELIEVE in this assumption.
If the scriptures are studied as a whole and verses are not picked and apply in direct opposition to other verses we see a different truth than the above.
The scriptures assert that THE WORKS OF GOD are divided into different ages or generations.
So what's taking place in the age we are presently living in.
Scripture says that God through Christ is CHOOSING a few to rule and judge in HIS KINGDOM and they with HIM will bring all creation INTO CHRIST.
Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensations of the fullness of TIMES he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in CHRIST........
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature WAITETH for the manifestation of THE SONS OF GOD.
Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself ALSO SHALL BE DELIVERED (by Christ and his elect).......
Romans 11:30-31 For as ye in times past HAVE NOT BELIEVED GOD, yet have obtained mercy through THEIR UNBELIEF:
(vs 31) Even so have these also NOT NOW believed, that through YOUR MERCY they also MAY OBTAIN MERCY.
1 Corinthians 15:28 And when ALL THINGS shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.
Luke 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great; but the labourers (OF GOD'S WORKS) are FEW.....
Matthew 20:16 many are called, FEW are chosen....
Why are they called and not chosen; because they didn't BELIEVE WHAT GOD SAID.
Yes they are saved; but want be a judge in the kingdom.
Hi Mishael, I have read many of your posts and you help lead many on their search for the truth including me. I do have a question; I have heard others say that Moses was taken to heaven. I don't know if what you said about Michael was sent to collect Moses' body, meant the same. This is not to debate or dispute it is just a question I have you may can help with. Jesus is the Firstfruits of those that slept, and by scripture it is clear Jesus was the first that gives us hope.
Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
How can anyone have been resurrected or overcome death before Jesus? Thanks Ron
Part 1 some scriptures concerning the Grace of God on Acts 1 - 3 years ago
"But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by washing of regeneration of the Holy Ghost; which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to eternal life" Titus 3:4-7
"In keeping of them is great reward" Psalms 19:11
"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just and good" Romans 7:12
"the law is spiritual" Romans 7:14
"Sin is the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4
"Cursed is everyone that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them" Galatians 3:10
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die" Ezekiel 18:14
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse" Galatians 3:10
"weak through the flesh" Romans 8:3
"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight" Romans 3:20
"having no hope, and without God in the world" Ephesians 2:12
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all of our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" Isaiah 64:6
"We have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one...There is no fear of God before there eyes...For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:9-23
"the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" Romans 1:18
"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off" Romans 11:22
I Believe God gives the Holyspirit spirit when we are truly converted which is an act of his doing upon our trust and believe in the work of Christ on the cross.
That same Spirit convicts us of sin,
As we feed on the word "with faith" that same Spirit moves us different than the way we were before. It's not simply a change of mind, "IT'S A CHANGED HEART".
This is called fruit in your life that wasn't there before.
John 15:8. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye ""BEAR"" much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
NOTICE: YOU BEAR THE FRUIT YOU DON'T PRODUCE IT.
We do that by being connected to the true vine. JESUS.
John 15:1-4. I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
These verses emphasize "Virtue" by being connected!! A New Heart, The now inner Man.
Here's what's produced by the Vine:
Galatians 5:22-24. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
( The last sentence here is perhaps the death of the old Heart. "Not Old Nature".
by us being in Christ at his death. The new Heart and Power supplied by The Holyspirit is given by us behind baptized into his resurrection!
ROMANS 6:1-5.
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Our evidence is that our Hope is built on a rock and that rock is Jesus Christ. if you're saved you Have the Holyspirit.
Thank you for your reply, Ron - much appreciated. If I could just address a couple of your points:
a. "If Jesus did not have the sinful flesh that came from the first Adam and Jesus was incapable of sin what did He fulfill?" You clearly referred to Matthew 5:17. Using the Greek words for 'abolish & fulfil', their meanings are: abolish = to destroy, abrogate, or to deny Divine Authority. And 'fulfil' = to complete, fill up what was predicted, accomplish what was intended by it.
When we read it as given, then we see that the Lord, in His 'sinless' condition, could indeed fulfil the Law, because His coming was not to prove His ability to be obedient to the Law but was for the purpose to bring the Law to its planned & proper completion. And this He did as the One Who not only was the Word of God (as the Word/Law/Prophecies) given to Israel, but also Who came now in human form (that Word made Flesh) to bring the Law to finality by His death, resurrection & bringing in of a better Covenant ( Hebrews 8:6,7).
b. Romans 8:3. "in the likeness of sinful flesh". Many look at this phrase as supporting the belief that Jesus had sinful flesh as we have. If that were so, then he would have the sin nature in Him as 'sinful flesh' speaks of that, in one respect. In the other respect, it could also mean that Jesus came in human flesh, resembling (likeness of) sinful flesh that he partook of flesh, or the nature of man, but without any of its sinful propensities or desires. Why would that be? Because the sin nature, which is common to man, was not found in Him. Satan's great desire was to replicate what he did to the first Adam - but the last Adam withstood him disallowing sin to enter thereby imputing the sin nature.
Hey Carlton good to hear from you, I read your posts, well done. Nowhere or no how did any part of my post be in any way saying Jesus was not holy. I am sorry you felt it did. Jesus has always been holy. Jesus came in the flesh and was sacrificed for the sins of many and put in the grave and was resurrected the third day on the Feast of First Fruits.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
I said that Jesus was in the same flesh as we because if He was not He would not have been affected in the same way we are. He had to be tempted the same as we are, if not He would have not fulfilled the prophets and the law. He was as much flesh as me or you but he lived on this earth sinless and a perfect life fulfilling his Father's will for us. That is what's so amazing, He left the glory He had in heaven to do that for us.
Jesus needed to live a normal human existence, identifying in every way with His people, with their sufferings, their joys, hopes, doubts, sicknesses, etc. And He could only do this if He came as a Babe, growing up as a young man & fulfilling the Will of God in life & death. ( Hebrews 2:16-18). And even though the people saw Him only as the son of Joseph & Mary ( Matthew 13:55,56), they should have known the Scriptures that spoke of His coming ( Isaiah 7:14; Daniel 9:24-26; Isaiah chaps 52 & 53; Zechariah 9:9, 12:10; & many others).
To your other questions: "what was Christ's victory over?" Ultimately, He was victorious over death & hell; by implication: over sin's penalty & over Satan's power to all who believed. 2 Timothy 1:10; 1 Corinthians 15:25,26 & Revelation 20:14.
And "how did He achieve this victory?" Only by the Cross. What seemed to the world & to Satan as the final death blow to Jesus to be rid of Him, in fact became the very means of salvation to all who would believe on Him. Jesus' resurrection was God's glorious proclamation of His acceptance that sin's price was now fully paid & that all who put their trust in Him would be cleansed by Jesus' Blood, justified, accepted & glorified ( Romans 8:30).
Carleton Jesus is the Son of God a few more scripture refrences Part 2 - In Reply on Genesis 14 - 3 years ago
"took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" Philippians 2:7
"his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh" Romans 8:3
"The first man Adam is of the earth, earthy: the second man Jesus is the Lord from heaven" 1 Corinthians 15:47
"He can not deny himself" 2 Timothy 2:13
"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and forever" Hebrews 13:8
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world: but that the world through him might be saved" John 3:17
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acception, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15
"For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost" Luke 19:10
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" Acts 4:12
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This signifying what death he should die" John 12:32-33
John Chapter 19- whole chapter
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins" Ephesians 1:7
"Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" Revelation 1:5
"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver or gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" 1 Peter 1:18-19
"And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2
"Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it" Acts 2:24
Hi Sacha If there's nothing wrong with you holding on with what you believe in it shouldn't bother you if others feel the same way! Listening to your recent posts you're critical on people debating their differences but you join the debate and you presents yourself the same way in this Post when you say I'm quoting you. "you know it's nasty", and "you know it sounds spiteful," You've said before you "struggle"with Loving the brethern, it was something you have to work on", You've said "you slip out a curse word every now and then", end quote. No one is perfect, our flesh provokes us to do these things, but it's something the Spirit convict us of, ""ITS NOT A TESTIMONY " No one has defeated the flesh. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. Romans 8:11-12. That same Spirit teaches us all things, Including patience and Longsuffering, And he opens our eyes to the Scriptures. And he causes us to Love the brethren, "We are to hold one another accountable to provide truth in the scripture"
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for instruction in righteousness: Iron sharpens Iron! No one should get upset over the truth! We grow by the "Sincere" milk of the word.
We preach the cross and the cross means nothing if we don't believe in who the Lord say he is,
Revelation 1:8 (KJV) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY. We're not ashamed of that!
The cross is an offense to those who don't believe!!
I Pray you examine yourself, May the Lord be with you.
S Spencer, may the Spirit grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
Isaiah 9:6 ..... HIS NAME shall be called
Christ bears the NAME of his Father just as we bear the name of our earthly father; but the Father (through Jesus) gives us a new name. We will bear the name of our true Father.
Revelation 2:17 .... To him that overcometh .......I (the Father) will give him (the overcomer) a white stone (the cornerstone, Christ) and in the (new) stone (us) A NEW NAME written, which no man knoweth SAVING HE THAT RECEIVED IT.
I Know HIS wisdom and HIS understanding will grace you with the answer.
Hi I read your post, I would like to reason with you on John not living a life of sin,
I believe anyone born again can make that claim, because of we being baptized in Christ, "read Romans 6.
BUT that don't make us sinless, as long as we're in these bodies sin is there,
read Romans 7.
Not until Christ rose from the dead were we given the power over sin, ""Not sinless but nolonger running after sin"".
( Romans 8:11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.)
John knew himself Jesus baptism was different and he needed it
Matthew 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Before the Christ was crucified and rose again there was a dwelling of the Holyspirit for God's servants to minister but there wasn't a baptism of the Holyspirit that proceeded after the Lamb slain for the sins of the World. by which we minister and by which we are "Positionally sanctified " ( Forever cleansed from the penalty of sin)
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Romans 3:23-24. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Thank you Michael for that clear & concise response. If the foundations of biblical teaching or doctrine are not properly laid, the building cracks will develop & bring destruction. I find that many Christians, whether because of Church teaching or from their own surmisings, look at Scriptures such as John 14:15 & immediately apply the obedience to the Law for all people, that which was given only to Israel.
To do so, several things have to be overlooked or rejected: to whom was God speaking in the OT & to whom was Jesus speaking prior to His crucifixion? Only to Israel, none else. Gentiles weren't even in the picture pertaining to the Law & never have been. What was the reason for giving the Law? God's code of conduct (spiritual, moral & social) for His people, His Mark of separation from the heathen - Leviticus 26:46, (as also with circumcision: Genesis 17:10), & to demonstrate to Israel a godly standard that as sinners they could never fully obey ( Galatians 3:21-26).
But then we get verses such as Matthew 5:17-19 which are often used to support the eternal nature & applicability of the Law to all people. To those under the Law, indeed, the Law is current & will be used against them. To those who have escaped the curse of the Law & have found new life in Christ, have learned that Christ has indeed fulfilled all the Law, forever abrogating it & thru His Death ushered in a new & better Covenant ( Hebrews 8:6-13).
What then do we do with Scriptures (e.g. 1 John 5:2,3) that say we must obey God's commandments? Are John & others pointing the believer back to the letter of the Law that kills or rather to the Spirit Who gives life ( 2 Corinthians 3:6)? It is the Spirit's Law in our hearts that frees us from the Law of sin & death ( Romans 8:2). To give consent to both, that which is opposed to each other, weakens (even negates) the power of the New Covenant through Christ's Blood & the keeping of the Sabbath ever stands as a centrepiece to
You are ignoring tons of scripture regarding God's Commandments.....
I will comment on a few of your comments.
You ask - What then do we do with Scriptures (e.g. 1 John 5:2,3) that say we must obey God's commandments? That is a good question! If we believe what you are saying, then we need to ignore this scripture. In addition, there is a multitude of scripture including scripture from Jesus that asks us to follow God's commandments, are we to ignore all of this scripture too?
Yes, we must obey God's commandments. When we fail and sin, which all will, we can now be forgiven though Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ's death does NOT cancel God's commandments. God's commandments guide us and provides moral direction. Yes, apostle John and others followed Gods commandments and based on their scripture we should be doing the same.
You ask - Are John & others pointing the believer back to the letter of the Law that kills or rather to the Spirit Who gives life ( 2 Corinthians 3:6)? Yes, John and others are pointing back to the Law/10 Commandments. There is no easy way to get to heaven. If we ignore the commandments and live in sin....we perish!
You quote this scripture: It is the Spirit's Law in our hearts that frees us from the Law of sin & death ( Romans 8:2). This scripture from Paul sounds great but it does NOT provide us with a free ticket to sin. The scripture is about the Spirts Law - is the Holy Spirit residing in our heart that helps us to avoid sin.
You state: To give consent to both, that which is opposed to each other, weakens (even negates) the power of the New Covenant through Christ's Blood & the keeping of the Sabbath ever stands as a centrepiece to cause both error & division.
Ok, so we can believe in the new modern popular doctrine pointing to minimizing or eliminating the need to observe God's commandments or we can be (old fashioned) and believe in the bible and the 10 Commandments. I choose the latter.
God Bless
To do so, several things have to be overlooked or rejected: to whom was God speaking in the OT & to whom was Jesus speaking prior to His crucifixion? Only to Israel, none else. Gentiles weren't even in the picture pertaining to the Law & never have been. What was the reason for giving the Law? God's code of conduct (spiritual, moral & social) for His people, His Mark of separation from the heathen - Leviticus 26:46, (as also with circumcision: Genesis 17:10), & to demonstrate to Israel a godly standard that as sinners they could never fully obey ( Galatians 3:21-26).
But then we get verses such as Matthew 5:17-19 which are often used to support the eternal nature & applicability of the Law to all people. To those under the Law, indeed, the Law is current & will be used against them. To those who have escaped the curse of the Law & have found new life in Christ, have learned that Christ has indeed fulfilled all the Law, forever abrogating it & thru His Death ushered in a new & better Covenant ( Hebrews 8:6-13).
What then do we do with Scriptures (e.g. 1 John 5:2,3) that say we must obey God's commandments? Are John & others pointing the believer back to the letter of the Law that kills or rather to the Spirit Who gives life ( 2 Corinthians 3:6)? It is the Spirit's Law in our hearts that frees us from the Law of sin & death ( Romans 8:2). To give consent to both, that which is opposed to each other, weakens (even negates) the power of the New Covenant through Christ's Blood & the keeping of the Sabbath ever stands as a centrepiece to cause both error & division.
I don't think anyone here has ever said Jesus Christ is God the Father. He is the only begotten Son of God. Like you stated flesh from being born of Mary. Though no virgin can give birth to a person. They must be conceived. The Holy Ghost is what conceived Mary. The Holy Ghost is of God. Jesus Christ was not just a human like you or me. He was part human part God.
I was wondering if it was the same Rob I have had conversations before about the divinity of Christ. In your question about "God not being flesh". Which I believe we all know. Also has nothing to do with Jesus Christ being God the Son.
He is on the right hand of God. Nothing is above Him and everything is below Him. Just as God the Father as they are ONE. Also the He existed before the world was.
As I might as well bring this up as well as I know some believe this view. That Jesus Christ received the Holy Ghost at His baptism in the Jordan. Maybe because of the vision John saw of the Spirit descending upon Him. Which to me was just for a testimony. Also as God spoke from Heaven. John the baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mothers womb as in Luke 1:15. I don't understand how anyone could think the Holy Ghost/Spirit of God was not with Jesus Christ from His mothers womb also. Also in that John was born of two human parents. Not as Christ in that God is His real Father. Even showing Jesus knew he was the Son of God in Luke 2:49. As we who are born again, knowing God is our Father, receiving the the Holy Spirit of adoption as in Romans 8:15-16. Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God and ONE with God the Father. Along with the Holy Ghost. 1 John 5:7.
No one said anyone gave anything to God the Father.
God Bless.
1 Corinthians 15:39
All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
Revelation 19:18
That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:12
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
2 Corinthians
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
Philippians 3:4
Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Ephesians 2:11
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Mark 10:8
And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
2 Corinthians 5:16
Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Ephesians 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
i don't see anywhere in this tread where someone said the the sabbath was moved to Sunday, in fact we Adam said made it clear "Sounds like gathering on the first day ( Acts 20:7) of the week to worship is being confused with observing the Sabbath." in other words we're not saying that.
We're saying they gathered on the 1st day of the week.
following Christ is a 24/7 lifestyle that the Holyspirit moves you to do, not the 10 commandments, so yes Saturday is a Holy Day and so is the other 6 days. I also don't see where I or anyone said the 10 commandments was abolished, but I gave you Colossians 2:14-17 (KJV) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
What Paul is saying here is what he said in Romans 7:9.For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And Romans 8:3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
And where did we judge you?
Romans 14:4. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
GOD BLESS
I AGREE AND BELIEVE everything Jesse said in his comment to you. I will expand MY BELIEF a little more.
I BELIEVE that Christ; with the elect, are and will judge the world (Satan's kingdom that Christ took back at HIS resurrection). ( Matthew 4:8-9) ( Revelation 11:15) ( 1 Corinthians 6:2) ( 1 Peter 4:17)
I BELIEVE the parable of the workers; those called to work in God's vineyard, are the elect. Those called in the first hour are the apostles and others that took part in Pentecost. Since that first hour other workers have been called; till the present hour. Ourselves now being judged by the word of God; by our brothers before us, they being ONE IN CHRIST; have also become THE WORD, the BOOKS. ( Revelation 20:12) ( Revelation 20:4)
Matthew 19:28
Romans 11:31-32
Romans 8:19 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the creature WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION of the Son of God.
Romans 8:21 Because the creature ITSELF ALSO shall be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption unto the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Revelation 10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me. thou must PROPHECY AGAIN before many peoples, and nations,and tongues,and kings.
I BELIEVE at the departure of this body we will be given THE FULLNESS OF GOD; which also will be HIS BODY, OMNIPRESENT able to judge others as he now judges us.
Fear is the opposite of love as the Bible says and we shall not be in bondage with fear ( Romans 8:15), but it definitely says to fear God, which I think includes a very high level of respect to Him. I think a portion of Christians don't respect God or fear Him like the Bible says and instead I actually hear them use God's name in vain, and just say petty things to God, act demanding, and throw a tantrum when they doen't get their way. But God doesn't exist to serve them, but the opposite.
Link
Man didn't start with eve; man started with Christ. Adam was just a shadow of the TRUE FIRST MAN CREATED.
Revelation 3:14 .... the faithful and true witness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD...
The true witness is Christ.
Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness....
Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the BEGINNING and the ENDING....
Jesus was the first man created; and when HIS WORKS are finished, He will be the LAST MAN created.
Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, and THEY ARE CREATED; and thou renewest the face of the earth.
Psalms 102:18 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which SHALL BE CREATED shall praise the Lord.
Romans 8:29 For whom he (GOD) did foreknow (ALL CREATION), he also did predestinate to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON, that he (THE SON) might be the firstborn (FIRST MAN OF CREATION) among many brethren (LAST MAN OF CREATION).
You ask why Jacob is bad mouthed so much in the church (most have worldly wisdom)?
Why is Judas bad mouthed so much in the church? Was not he one of the chosen? Did he not perform the job he was chosen for, just as Pharaoh, also Esau and Jacob as well as us today; we being used also by God to do HIS WORKS.
Romans 9
You would not have a saviour if you didn't have a Judas. Do you not think Our LORD is not doing these same kind of WORKS today? In all of history God uses man to do HIS WORKS, just and unjust.
Isaiah 10
But God has already provided for their return to the kingdom.
Romans 8:19-21 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the CREATURE WAITETH for the MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD.
(vs 20) For the creature was made SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
(vs 21) BECAUSE THE CREATURE ITSELF ALSO SHALL BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (death) UNTO THE LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD.
Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come upon Mt. Zion to judge the Mt. of Esau, and the kingdom shall be the Lords.
MOST WILL NOT BELIEVE THIS.
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the RIGHT HAND OF GOD, who also maketh intercession for us.
Romans 8:27
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he (Jesus) makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
He is in heaven where the above scriptures say what He is doing. When this age closes, the Father will tell the Bridegroom to go get His Bride.
The Holy Spirit is on earth now performing His ministry. Jesus went to the Cross to give believers the Holy Spirit who indwells each believer with the spirit of Christ.
He comforts, teaches, baptizes, speaks, strives with sinners, creates, renews, convicts, anoints, guides, empowers, sanctifies, gives gifts, illuminates, reveals truth of God, and much more.
After the "caught up in the clouds", of the Church, His ministry will be diminished.
I would say I have a close relationship with Him. I pray, talk with, worship Jesus, read huge chunks of the Bible daily, sit still until He teaches me what I just read; He sharpens my spiritual discernment, corrects me often. I cannot express the inner JOY it is, to covet being in His presence. He speaks to me at home, in the car, taking a walk. He gives words of knowledge and words of wisdom; verses to go look up.
If you are daily crucifying your flesh so you may walk in the spirit, you too will experience this joy. I like to get in my closet, sit under the clothes and practice intense listening.
Get to know Him! He's a real Person who happens to be invisible to our eyes; but visible in the spirit; to hearts and to our spirit inside, ears. The Bible says God is a consuming fire. The fire of His love for us burns steady. How is yours?
Turn off the noise of the world for a little while, and get to know the ways of the Holy Spirit.
Ecclesiastes 3:11 He hath made everything beautiful in his time: also he has set the world in their heart, that no man can find out the WORK THAT GOD MAKETH from the beginning to the end.
Isaiah 28:21 .....that he may do HIS WORK, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
The tree of (the) knowledge of GOOD and EVIL. One tree, two fruits within themselves. You can't eat one without eating the other.
Children are born without knowledge; the FATHER tells them DO NOT touch the stove, it's hot. HOW CAN THEY BELIEVE, they don't know what hot is. So the FATHER has to teach knowledge through the experience of extremes found in the world. GOOD AND EVIL; but also HOPE.
Romans 8:20 For the creature (creation) was made SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in HOPE.
In God's strange act he is choosing a FEW to become Sons of God; that they with him will deliver the rest of creation from corruption.
Romans 8:19 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the creature waiteth for the MANIFESTATION of the SONS OF GOD.
Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself shall ALSO BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (death) into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, SOLD under sin.
We were naturally born flesh and blood; but a body of flesh and blood cannot obtain the spiritual world (the likeness of Christ). Christ came in the likeness of us (sinful flesh) to REDEEM (exchange our body of flesh for his body of GLORY or a glorified body).
Romans 8:6 To be carnally minded (unbelief) is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded (believing) is life (you never die you just change bodies; you are glorified with Christ, you are REDEEMED.
John 17:21-22
All this was made possible by HIS WORK ON THE CROSS AND HIS RESURRECTION. He was made like you so that you and him could die together and you and him could be resurrected together; now in THE LIKENESS OF CHRIST to live a life without sin (love God above all and your brothers and enemies as yourself)
Romans 8:29
Very FEW understand the kingdom or heaven or HEAVEN or THE GOSPEL or the good news.
WHERE DOES GOD DWELL?
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God IS WITHIN YOU.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God DWELLETH in you?
1 Kings 8:27 But will God indeed DWELL ON THE EARTH? behold the HEAVEN and HEAVEN OF HEAVENS cannot contain THEE; how much less this HOUSE (TEMPLE) that I have builded?
Hebrews 3:6 For Christ is a Son over his own HOUSE; whose HOUSE WE ARE....
Hebrews 9:1-2 .....WE have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the THRONE ( Isaiah 66:1) of the majesty in the HEAVENS; (YOU)
(vs 2) A minister of the sanctuary, and TRUE TABERNACLE, which the Lord pitched and not man.
Psalms 148:4 Praise him, YE HEAVEN OF HEAVENS...
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in HEAVEN....
Hebrews 12:23
Romans 8:29
Colossians 1:27 .....CHRIST IN YOU
You never die if ye are born of the SPIRIT you just change bodies.
1 Corinthians 15:51-58
The 'heart' of course is such an immaterial concept, so we who live in a see/touch dimension find it difficult to understand & identify. I can best equate it to the residence of our spirit and to which place, the Holy Spirit is also found in all those who believe. And even though the Spirit continues to affect our spirits in many ways to the end of forming "Christ in us", sadly our minds tend to run riot at times, entertaining fleshly pursuits, affecting our spirit. And so the continual urging to "be renewed in the spirit of your mind" ( Ephesians 4:23) & Romans 12:2: "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God" must be our constant pursuit.
And if being "carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace" ( Romans 8:6), our minds must be specially affected by the Holy Spirit - and for that to happen, we put away sins in the mind & invite the Spirit to replace them with all that is pure & holy. And even in our struggles in the flesh, we know that "it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" ( Philippians 2:13) & that work will never cease for it is God's Will & for His Joy for our holiness & bearing His Son's Image.
Romans 8:31 "What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?"
1 John 4:4 "Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world."
God bless.
The BIG QUESTION? If you don't accept Christ in your physical life time are you cut off forever? Or go to hell?
Most BELIEVE in this assumption.
If the scriptures are studied as a whole and verses are not picked and apply in direct opposition to other verses we see a different truth than the above.
The scriptures assert that THE WORKS OF GOD are divided into different ages or generations.
So what's taking place in the age we are presently living in.
Scripture says that God through Christ is CHOOSING a few to rule and judge in HIS KINGDOM and they with HIM will bring all creation INTO CHRIST.
Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensations of the fullness of TIMES he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in CHRIST........
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature WAITETH for the manifestation of THE SONS OF GOD.
Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself ALSO SHALL BE DELIVERED (by Christ and his elect).......
Romans 11:30-31 For as ye in times past HAVE NOT BELIEVED GOD, yet have obtained mercy through THEIR UNBELIEF:
(vs 31) Even so have these also NOT NOW believed, that through YOUR MERCY they also MAY OBTAIN MERCY.
1 Corinthians 15:28 And when ALL THINGS shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.
Luke 10:2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great; but the labourers (OF GOD'S WORKS) are FEW.....
Matthew 20:16 many are called, FEW are chosen....
Why are they called and not chosen; because they didn't BELIEVE WHAT GOD SAID.
Yes they are saved; but want be a judge in the kingdom.
Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
How can anyone have been resurrected or overcome death before Jesus? Thanks Ron
"In keeping of them is great reward" Psalms 19:11
"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just and good" Romans 7:12
"the law is spiritual" Romans 7:14
"Sin is the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4
"Cursed is everyone that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them" Galatians 3:10
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die" Ezekiel 18:14
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse" Galatians 3:10
"weak through the flesh" Romans 8:3
"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight" Romans 3:20
"having no hope, and without God in the world" Ephesians 2:12
"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all of our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" Isaiah 64:6
"We have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one...There is no fear of God before there eyes...For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:9-23
"the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" Romans 1:18
"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off" Romans 11:22
I Believe God gives the Holyspirit spirit when we are truly converted which is an act of his doing upon our trust and believe in the work of Christ on the cross.
That same Spirit convicts us of sin,
As we feed on the word "with faith" that same Spirit moves us different than the way we were before. It's not simply a change of mind, "IT'S A CHANGED HEART".
This is called fruit in your life that wasn't there before.
John 15:8. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye ""BEAR"" much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
NOTICE: YOU BEAR THE FRUIT YOU DON'T PRODUCE IT.
We do that by being connected to the true vine. JESUS.
John 15:1-4. I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
These verses emphasize "Virtue" by being connected!! A New Heart, The now inner Man.
Here's what's produced by the Vine:
Galatians 5:22-24. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
( The last sentence here is perhaps the death of the old Heart. "Not Old Nature".
by us being in Christ at his death. The new Heart and Power supplied by The Holyspirit is given by us behind baptized into his resurrection!
ROMANS 6:1-5.
Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Our evidence is that our Hope is built on a rock and that rock is Jesus Christ. if you're saved you Have the Holyspirit.
Thank you for your reply, Ron - much appreciated. If I could just address a couple of your points:
a. "If Jesus did not have the sinful flesh that came from the first Adam and Jesus was incapable of sin what did He fulfill?" You clearly referred to Matthew 5:17. Using the Greek words for 'abolish & fulfil', their meanings are: abolish = to destroy, abrogate, or to deny Divine Authority. And 'fulfil' = to complete, fill up what was predicted, accomplish what was intended by it.
When we read it as given, then we see that the Lord, in His 'sinless' condition, could indeed fulfil the Law, because His coming was not to prove His ability to be obedient to the Law but was for the purpose to bring the Law to its planned & proper completion. And this He did as the One Who not only was the Word of God (as the Word/Law/Prophecies) given to Israel, but also Who came now in human form (that Word made Flesh) to bring the Law to finality by His death, resurrection & bringing in of a better Covenant ( Hebrews 8:6,7).
b. Romans 8:3. "in the likeness of sinful flesh". Many look at this phrase as supporting the belief that Jesus had sinful flesh as we have. If that were so, then he would have the sin nature in Him as 'sinful flesh' speaks of that, in one respect. In the other respect, it could also mean that Jesus came in human flesh, resembling (likeness of) sinful flesh that he partook of flesh, or the nature of man, but without any of its sinful propensities or desires. Why would that be? Because the sin nature, which is common to man, was not found in Him. Satan's great desire was to replicate what he did to the first Adam - but the last Adam withstood him disallowing sin to enter thereby imputing the sin nature.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
I said that Jesus was in the same flesh as we because if He was not He would not have been affected in the same way we are. He had to be tempted the same as we are, if not He would have not fulfilled the prophets and the law. He was as much flesh as me or you but he lived on this earth sinless and a perfect life fulfilling his Father's will for us. That is what's so amazing, He left the glory He had in heaven to do that for us.
I hope that makes sense, Ron
Jesus needed to live a normal human existence, identifying in every way with His people, with their sufferings, their joys, hopes, doubts, sicknesses, etc. And He could only do this if He came as a Babe, growing up as a young man & fulfilling the Will of God in life & death. ( Hebrews 2:16-18). And even though the people saw Him only as the son of Joseph & Mary ( Matthew 13:55,56), they should have known the Scriptures that spoke of His coming ( Isaiah 7:14; Daniel 9:24-26; Isaiah chaps 52 & 53; Zechariah 9:9, 12:10; & many others).
To your other questions: "what was Christ's victory over?" Ultimately, He was victorious over death & hell; by implication: over sin's penalty & over Satan's power to all who believed. 2 Timothy 1:10; 1 Corinthians 15:25,26 & Revelation 20:14.
And "how did He achieve this victory?" Only by the Cross. What seemed to the world & to Satan as the final death blow to Jesus to be rid of Him, in fact became the very means of salvation to all who would believe on Him. Jesus' resurrection was God's glorious proclamation of His acceptance that sin's price was now fully paid & that all who put their trust in Him would be cleansed by Jesus' Blood, justified, accepted & glorified ( Romans 8:30).
"his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh" Romans 8:3
"The first man Adam is of the earth, earthy: the second man Jesus is the Lord from heaven" 1 Corinthians 15:47
"He can not deny himself" 2 Timothy 2:13
"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and forever" Hebrews 13:8
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world: but that the world through him might be saved" John 3:17
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acception, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15
"For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost" Luke 19:10
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" Acts 4:12
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This signifying what death he should die" John 12:32-33
John Chapter 19- whole chapter
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins" Ephesians 1:7
"Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" Revelation 1:5
"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver or gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" 1 Peter 1:18-19
"And he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2
"Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it" Acts 2:24
1 Corinthians Chapter 15 whole chapter
Fail not to communicate?
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. Romans 8:11-12. That same Spirit teaches us all things, Including patience and Longsuffering, And he opens our eyes to the Scriptures. And he causes us to Love the brethren, "We are to hold one another accountable to provide truth in the scripture"
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for instruction in righteousness: Iron sharpens Iron! No one should get upset over the truth! We grow by the "Sincere" milk of the word.
We preach the cross and the cross means nothing if we don't believe in who the Lord say he is,
Revelation 1:8 (KJV) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY. We're not ashamed of that!
The cross is an offense to those who don't believe!!
I Pray you examine yourself, May the Lord be with you.
Isaiah 9:6 ..... HIS NAME shall be called
Christ bears the NAME of his Father just as we bear the name of our earthly father; but the Father (through Jesus) gives us a new name. We will bear the name of our true Father.
Revelation 2:17 .... To him that overcometh .......I (the Father) will give him (the overcomer) a white stone (the cornerstone, Christ) and in the (new) stone (us) A NEW NAME written, which no man knoweth SAVING HE THAT RECEIVED IT.
I Know HIS wisdom and HIS understanding will grace you with the answer.
Romans 8:29
Revelation 22:13
Ephesians 2:15
I believe anyone born again can make that claim, because of we being baptized in Christ, "read Romans 6.
BUT that don't make us sinless, as long as we're in these bodies sin is there,
read Romans 7.
Not until Christ rose from the dead were we given the power over sin, ""Not sinless but nolonger running after sin"".
( Romans 8:11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.)
John knew himself Jesus baptism was different and he needed it
Matthew 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Before the Christ was crucified and rose again there was a dwelling of the Holyspirit for God's servants to minister but there wasn't a baptism of the Holyspirit that proceeded after the Lamb slain for the sins of the World. by which we minister and by which we are "Positionally sanctified " ( Forever cleansed from the penalty of sin)
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Romans 3:23-24. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: