Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD that WORKETH in you TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
Most DON'T BELIEVE these WORD'S of God.
Do you believe that everything being done, IN YOU and BY YOU, is God's will and is God's work.
Isaiah 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of my anger, and the staff in their hand is my indignation.
Isaiah 10:6 And I WILL send him against a hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath WILL I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and tread them down like the mire in the streets.
Isaiah 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed HIS WHOLE WORK upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I WILL punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.
Isaiah 10:13 For he saith, by the strength of MY HAND I HAVE DONE IT .......
God didn't punish the king for stealing, raping the women, dashing the children against the streets, and killing men:
He punished him because he thought HE DID IT instead of UNDERSTANDING it was THE WORK'S of GOD through his hand.
TRUTH:
We are the vessel; Christ is the LIFE, TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
Not believing these words causes us to walk in disobedience.
The sins of the flesh are covered by the blood of Christ; NOT BELIEVING his WORDS keeps us from being ONE.
Ephesians 4:4 There is ONE BODY (man) and ONE SPIRIT (Life and Truth).
So let me ask you a simple question is Once saved always saved; yes or no ?
If yes ; just Get saved and God will do the rest , no need to do any thing , a common response . No fear or concerns .
If no : then be careful how you live , it could be fatal . Yes with faith and Gods help we can do it , common response , its worth it considering the option.
This must be the biggest question of all time in my Opinion . My belief is Only the Bible has the truth , and it must convince any one , or they just my get deceived . Jesus said Beware lest any man deceive you . Our eternity is at stake .
Unfortunately, you have an incorrect view on this. Salvation is conditional on one's continued walk with Christ, like it or not. To say that one can wilfully walk away from Christ and live Disobedience to God will go to heaven is a direct violation of Hebrews 5:9 where we are told that Christ is the author of eternal life for all those who obey him. Also, your response is in direct conflict with Romans 2:9 where Paul says only those who continue walking with Christ will have eternal life. Notice the condition there. This is also in direct line with 1st John 2: 24-25. John clearly says that only those who abide and remain in Christ will receive the promise of eternal life. There is no guarantee there, unless one remains s in Christ. Again, I ask you to show me the Bible verse that states specifically that one will remain in Christ automatically if they are saved. The early church did not teach once saved always saved and specifically highlighted that if one walks away from priced and does not return to Christ will end up in hell. Justin Martyr, for example, addresses this and specifically highlights True Believers that walk away from Christ. The promise of eternal life has conditions and doesn't make it any less of a promise. There is always an if/then connection when it comes to Salvation. Again, you can't show me a Bible verse that so shows True Believers are automatically saved. Everything is based on our continued faith. If what you're saying is true, and it's not, then who can ever really know that they are a True Believer? And, if you are saying that one can be disobedient and end up in heaven makes God a liar and an accessory to sin.
Thank you for your response. It is much appreciated. Just as I was saying in my other posts, it is nice to get feedback from others. However, I must say that the Bible is very clear in it's warning to all believers about falling away. There is no such thing in the Bible that says true believers will never fall away. If that was the case the Bible would be clear about that. However, the Bible is clear, like it or not, that salvation is conditional on our continued faith and walk with Christ. It is very easy for one to say "true believers" will never fall away. However, the only believers in the Bible are "true" believers that the writers are writing to. This idea that once someone is saved they are just automatically always saved, even if they live in disobedience, conflicts with the Word of God that says in Heb. 5:9 that Christ is the author of eternal life for those who obey him. Now, you mention physical death for those who are disobedient, but, James 5:19-20 mentions the spiritual death from "brethren" who err from the truth. Brethren are believers. So, as you can see Christians are not just automatically saved. Paul even knew this and address this many times over. Lastly, don't misrepresent 1 Cor. 11:30 as all encompassing. While there are some who were disobedient and it led to sickness and death, that does not account for those who willfully walk away from Christ. Those are 2 different things. The problem with those who believe in OSAS is that they always need to slightly twist verses out of context to fit their agenda, whereas I just let the Bible speak for itself in it's proper context. Whether you like it or not, the Bible is clear that salvation is conditional on our continued faith in Christ. No endurance to the end, no salvation.
Please reference the Bible verse that says saved Christians cannot walk away from Christ and be lost. The Bible does not say that true Christians cannot be lost. The Bible was written by true Christians to true Christians and warned true Christians not to fall away. This idea that "true" Christians are immune to sin is complete nonsense and a dangerous doctrine. The KJV Bible is extremely clear in what it says. God is consistent from Genesis to Revelation and those who do not remain faithful to God will end up in hell. That is the only truth, like it or not.
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
It is likely that Christian churches down through the centuries have always had more false believers than true. The Bible is written to the Church to the saved and lost together, and God never encourages believers to take comfort in their salvation and ignore their responsibility to go on with God. Those believers who do not pay attention to God's word and never get saved will end up falling away into hell.
True believers have a responsibility to walk with God in fear and trembling, seeking always to please Him and obey His word. A true believer who walks in disobedience cannot be lost again, but he can become less profitable and may be taken out of the world early because of that.
I typed up a response earlier but lost it by hitting the wrong key. At any rate, the Bible teaches that there are two main types of professing believers. 1. The saved, and 2. The lost. Lost professing Christians can fall away from Christ and return like a dog to his vomit, but saved Christians cannot.
It is possible for Christians to live in disobedience and be taken out of the world for disobedience, as alluded to in 1 Corinthians 11:30
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
However, the Bible is full of warnings for professing believers not to trust in their profession if their profession is not genuine. That is where so many Christians confuse fake Christianity with real Christianity. Christians who are truly born again will never lose their salvation and they are told in 2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Christians are not to be puffed up and idle about their profession. Christians need to make their calling and election sure by growing in the Lord to gain the assurance from Him that they are right with God and not just deceived.
False Christians should also give diligence to apply themselves to seeking the Lord and studying the Bible to discover that they are not saved and need to seek salvation that is real.
Nobody "does things" to get saved. Doing things will help the sinner find or gain assurance of salvation, but will not give the sinner credit with God by which to earn or buy salvation.
Hi Jesse, I appreciate the follow up. Very interesting topic to discuss and I think the most important thing to recognize is that the true believer will test their faith and stay in the word of God. They will have a conviction if the are drawing back from God because that's the Holy Spirit working in them. Great explanation and thanks for clarifying. It's refreshing to have a conversation with a fellow believer who is not just trying to win a debate. I think as Christians we need to be united in our condition and faith in Christ if we are truly going to be the light of the world and lead the lost to Christ.
Since we are on the topic, I'd love if you can offer some insight on Romans 2: 6-8. That verse also appears to lead the reader to conclude eternal life can be lost. Your insight on this is greatly appreciated!
I'm happy to discuss Colossians 1:23. It says "if you continue," and it sounds like its conditional. You can be reconciled, have the promise of this position before God in His representation of you, but if you don't continue.
This is the construction in Greek that's called the first class condition assumed to be true. He's not saying if you continue on. He's saying since you are continuing in the faith, and listen to this: having been grounded and settled, and not being moved away.
There's a lot there, but basically having been grounded, every Christian that receives Christ has been grounded, and they continue on because of that. They are settled in Christ. They have received Christ. And then we have a Present Participle in the Greek text: "And are not continually being in the promise of being moved away."
So it's not just a one-time condition where somebody says "I moved away from Christ and I lost all my salvation." There are people who are in the process of continually being removed from Christ. They are not true believers. They do not continue.
In fact, Jesus in John 8:30-31 tells us that to those Jews who have believed in Him, He says my genuine disciples continue in my word.
That's one of the characteristics of a believer. Some people you have to nag to stay in the word. If a believer, somebody who is born of the Spirit of God, if he or she tried to get away from the word, they are miserable.
And so with a genuine believer, Jesus says that they will continue in my word. If you try to stop, the Lord will convict you and deal with you. That's a characteristics of a true believer.
We don't get this from our English text because English is such a general language. But the Greek text reads, "Since (you are) continuing in the faith, having already been grounded and settled, and (you are) not being moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Again, I really appreciate your response, and I am actually hoping you could offer further insight into Col. 1:23. As I re-read this passage in scripture I notice that there does appear to be a condition to our salvation that does hinge on our continued faith in Christ. I do understand what you mean by salvation being a promise, but, even promises do often have conditions. I hear that a lot from my brothers and sisters in Christ who believe in Eternal Security, but, just don't see how unconditional security lines up with scripture. Let's look at Col. 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel". We see 2 things going on here that make this conditional. 1st, we see that we must "continue" in the faith. 2nd, we must not be "moved away". It is only when those 2 conditions are met that Christ will present us as holy and un-blamable.
If I may ask, when the writers of the KJV of the Bible were translating Col. 1: 23 why did they not just say "those who are filled with the Holy Spirit will endure to the end"? It just seems to confuse the reader to translate this as a conditional statement, but, not have any conditions to it. God is not the author of confusion, and I believe the writers of the KJV were inspired by the Holy Spirit, so why would Col. 1:23 be worded this way?
I value your insight and follow up, as I love friendly dialogue. thanks!
Thank you for the reply! I really appreciate your insight on this and it is always nice to have dialog on these platforms! Again, much appreciated and God bless you!
Very well said, Amen! That was the teaching in the early church. A person had to be born of God's Spirit in order to claim Christ as their Lord and savior. Romans 8:9 tells us that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
If I might add, salvation is not conditional based on what we do, but on what Jesus Christ has done for us. Colossians 1:23 says, "If ye continue in the faith," so it sounds conditional. But the literal translation from the Greek is, but the one who (has endured), not the one who will, but the one who has endured unto the end, this one will be saved.
Because it is an Aorist Participle in the Greek, it shows the proof of those who are saved, and it matches the rest of the teachings in the New Testament. The person who is saved WILL endure to the end, guaranteed! So we have the proof, and secondly, the promise of salvation. That is a promise!
I heard someone once say that the bible uses a lot of future tenses to show that salvation isn't here, it is later. No! That is a promise. A person is saved now. And when all this is over, the ones who will be saved are the ones who have endured unto the end.
So, I agree that only those who endure to the end in faith will reap eternal life, but I would also say that the person who is saved (Born of God's Spirit), that person will endure to the end. Why? Because God's Spirit in them will cause them to endure to the end. Like you say, we are the ones being kept by the power of God through faith. He keeps us saved, all the way to the end.
Again, very well said, and thank you for sharing this!!!
Love the Book of Romans. Here in ch. 8 we see a very clear explanation on how the Spirit filled Christian is to live. We stand by faith, and our faith in Christ is the means of our salvation. 1 Pt. 1:5 tells us we are kept by the power of God through faith, which is a living continual faith that is rooted in love and obedience to Christ. Now, some may say "What does it mean to be obedient to Christ?". It not only means to believe on Him, but, to express it in love ( John 13:34; 1 John ch. 1-2). How can we, as followers of Christ, say he is our Savior from sin and the penalty of sin, but, continue living in willful sin? We can't. Some will say that I am preaching a "work-based salvation", but, I am preaching a Biblical based salvation. One that is centered on the committing and dedicating our lives to the one, and only one, who gave His life for forgiveness of our sins! Only those who truly commit their lives to Christ will be saved. Anyone who claims Christ, but, lives in the flesh is not fit for the Kingdom of Heaven.
We, as followers of Christ, need to follow the Holy Spirit and set our minds on the things above. We were once alienated from Christ based on our wicked works ( Eph. 2: 2-3). We were once children of darkness, but, now are saved by the blood of Christ. He is the one who presents us holy and un-blamable in the sight of God IF we continue in the faith ( Col. 1: 21-23; Gal. 5: 1-5). We also see that Biblical faith is one that expresses itself in love ( gal. 5: 6). We need to remember that only those who endure to the end in faith will reap eternal life ( Romans 2: 6-11; Gal. 6: 7-9; Mt. 10: 22; 1 Jn. 2: 24-25; 1 Cor. 15; 1-2).
This prophetic psalm shows Judas Iscariot and all the evil to befall him and his descendants.
Note the first couple verses where prayer and a general attitude of love was shown (Christ until the end had him as a "trusted friend" ( Psalm 41:9). The curses on the wicked indeed can affect generations in the future (v. 10). Satan himself; in fact entered Judas after the sop was offered and at that point Jesus told him to do what he had planned quickly. When we look at verse 6; we are also reminded of the nation of Israel as a whole ( John 5:43). They will accept Antichrist with Satan at his "right hand" as Revelation states. Verse 18 speaks of another verse about Judas mentioned in Acts 1:18 and detailed in the Gospel of Matthew when he fell off the rope he hung himself with. We are also reminded of the situation of Acts 12:23 with Herod; and other verses where similar ailments took away the wicked.
From verse 20 on; we of course can apply similar logic with David's situation as the Son of David; namely Christ Himself. Verse 28 seems to refer to the Resurrection of the wicked (when they rise); as every knee shall bow; every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father in Philippians 2:10-11; but also in Isaiah and many other books of scripture as well.
We must look to Deuteronomy to understand that God still blesses the "thousands" that call on His name; despite generational banishment and curses for the disobedience and sin actions of ancestors ( Deut. 5:9-10). This chapter though shows how someone can be called AND chosen; albeit with the foreknowledge that they would be of the Devil from the beginning. This was of course to fulfill prophecy; but also God uses the enemy to buffet servants such as Job and Paul to accomplish His purposes. Let us not ascribe to such behavior ourselves! Surely we do not understand all His ways; nor forsee how all things for those who LOVE Him turn out for the good ( Romans 8:28).
Hello John. I only recall there is only one Tribulation still to come. It is called, The Great Tribulation ( Matthew 24:21). Jesus said in John 16:33, "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." Here, 'tribulation' is simply the sufferings, hardships, even persecutions that we all might face (as also Romans 8:35; 2 Corinthians 7:4; etc.). But the Great Tribulation that Jesus speaks of, & other epistle writers also refer to, is the time of the outpouring of God's Wrath ( Revelation 6:17; Revelation 16:1; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Ephesians 5:6); an anger against the accumulated wickedness of Earth's inhabitants which cannot be held back by Him any longer. The deaths & devastation will be frightening to say the least & the world will know that this is the Anger of the Lord upon them & none will be innocent bystanders - all those left on Earth will stand guilty before Him.
The Tree (Jesus) is known by its Fruit_RIGHTEOUSNESS - In Reply on 1 Kings 4 - 2 years ago
1 John 4:8 - He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1 Peter 4:8 - And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
Galatians 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Romans 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
1 Thessalonians 4:4 - That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
Romans 13:10 - Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Ephesians 4:1-3 - I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, (Read More...)
1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
Colossians 3:14 - And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Ephesians 5:9 - (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
1 Corinthians 13:13 - And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Matthew 7:15-20 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (Read More...)
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
1 Corinthians 13:1-5 - Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity (LOVE) I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal__
1Thessalonians 5:17, Matthew 6:5-35, Mark 11:24, Luke 6:28, Luke 10:2, Luke 11:1-13, Luke 18:1, Luke 18:1-14, 1Corinthians 11, 1Corinthians 14:14-15, James 5:13-20, Psalms 122:6, Ephesians 6:18, Philippians 4:6, Mark 13, 2Chronicles 7:14, 1Timothy 2:1-6,
Colossians 2:16 Let therefore no man judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH DAYS:
Colossians 2:17 Which are a SHADOW of things to come; but the BODY (YOU) are OF CHRIST.
Hebrews 10:1 For THE LAW having a SHADOW of good things to come ....
Romans 8:2 For the LAW of the SPIRIT OF LIFE (the TRUE) in Christ Jesus hath made me free from THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH (the shadow).
Hebrews 4:8 And he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God DID REST the seventh day (the shadow) from all HIS WORKS.
Hebrews 4:10 And he (YOU) that has ENTERED INTO THAT REST (the TRUE SABBATH), he (YOU) also have ceased from your works, as God did from his.
Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed DO ENTER INTO REST (the TRUE SABBATH) ....the WORKS WERE FINISHED from the foundation of the world.
God spoke ALL THE WORDS before the foundation of the world, then RESTED, those words are being FULFILLED in the ORDER that he SPOKE THEM.
Christ rested when he finished speaking those words, you DESTINY, that you will be conformed into the IMAGE OF CHRIST, are inside those words spoken before the foundation of the world.
CEASE FROM YOUR WORKS and enter into the TRUE SABBATH, YOU WILL BE THE IMAGE OF CHRIST.
1 Corinthians 15:58 ....always abounding in the WORK OF THE LORD (those words spoken before the foundation of the world) ...
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this one thing (God's words will be fulfilled), that He (THE WORD) which hath began a good work IN YOU WILL PERFORM IT until the the DAY (you become the IMAGE) of Jesus Christ.
Giannis, I don't know for sure your beliefs, whether man can go to Hell.
People look at scriptures in light of their beliefs, most often what they have been taught from childhood.
Those teaching most often were inspired by man's teachings. These teachings are ingrained and VERY HARD TO OVERCOME.
Mosses and the Prophets is all about the KINGDOM OF GOD.
When you understand Mosses and the Prophets, the New Testament will align with Mosses and the Prophets.
The OLD teaches ALL CREATION, at some point (in the coming ages) will be reconciled to God.
The Old teaches God does things at an appointed time, because the WORDS were spoken before the foundation of the worlds and are being fulfilled in that order.
The Old is a shadow of the NEW, that GOD CHOOSES certain ones as vessels of mercy and certain ones as vessels of dishonour.
Those CHOSEN in this age will become Ministering spirits: those not CHOSEN, will lay in the grave UNTIL the RESURRECTION OF JUDGEMENT.
When God raises those in the graves back to their flesh, Christ and his ministering spirits will JUDGE THEM and bring them to TRUTH.
Isaiah 5:13 Therefore my people (his creation) have gone into captivity, because they have no KNOWLEDGE .....
God is solving this problem of NO KNOWLEDGE by giving his creation the MIND OF CHRIST; but in his appointed time, to fulfil the WORDS SPOKEN.
Isaiah 11:9 ...for the earth SHALL BE FULL OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD .....
Romans 8:20 For creation was MADE SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly .....
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation OF CREATION WAITETH (God's appointed time) for the manifestation of the SONS OF GOD.
Romans 8:21 For CREATION ITSELF shall be delivered from corruption (the grave) INTO THE GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD.
1 Timothy 4:10 Therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN (even those that are saved in the age of judgement), SPECIALLY THOSE WHO (are caused) to BELIEVE.
I strongly believe that those people come to his/her place like Judas. Acts 1:25 I would rather see that this did not happen. We really dont know what chance a human being takes.
God bless u and yours in Jesus Holy Name, love u in Christ. Romans 7:1-6 ond Romans 8:11
She must make sure and keep herself clean in thoughts words and deeds. Without her, they will be lost. So she need to eat and also receive Spiritual nourishment so that she have something to go on. This is the first, we are not to destroy the temple of God, are we? 1 Corintihans 3:17 And the branch that believes in Him is valuable, as long as the branches bear fruit :) John 15:2
You have to decide this for yourself, but as far as i know the world, it does us no good! Because then our thought comes to utilization and it seems very worldly.
The world has no care for me either, it's probably pretty normal and feel that way. But remember Martha and Maria. Martha struggled and i can believe she got quite tired and even exhausted. While Mary received spiritual food. Luke 10:38-42 The best way is the Spiritual, although one must also take worldly chores occasionally, one can always Glorify God in what one does.
God bless u and yours in Jesus Name, love u in Christ. Romans 7:1-6 and Romans 8:11
Hello Mac. Btw, I'm not the same Chris who wrote to you much earlier; and also, I think you should have written in your first paragraph, "Saturday is the only day God blessed", in keeping with your belief.
Those, like yourself, who believe that the Sabbath is the "day God blessed & sanctified", need to also consider some other questions on this matter.
Questions such as: to whom was this Law (& indeed all Laws), given? What was the purpose of these Laws?
What is the meaning & requirements of the Sabbath? Was it any more than a rest day, a cessation of all work?
Is the Church that is formed under the New Covenant, obliged to come under those Laws (this Church which now comprised both saved Jews & Gentiles)?
When there was an instance in Acts 15:1-31, where the demand for Gentiles to be first circumcised & to keep the Law of Moses to be saved had to be dealt with, what was the response & apostolic decision? I'm sure you know the passage well. Did the apostles ever require the Gentiles, or any new believer, to come under the Mosaic Law?
If the Old Law only brought condemnation ( 2 Corinthians 3:6-17) & had to be done away with through Christ's Death, how is the Christian now able to know & fulfil the Laws of God?
If a believer now believes that he needs to keep the Laws & Sabbath in particular, can he condemn another who doesn't & who has understood the liberty Jesus gained for him to obey, to live, to worship God, as the Holy Spirit directs ( Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:1-4,18,25)?
Just a few questions to consider - not expecting answers, but hopefully to direct your mind to the full meaning of the full redemption we now have in Christ Jesus: redemption from sin's penalty & redemption from the Law's curse. We now obey many more Laws of God, more than what was given to the Jews to obey, & we do so from the continual ministry & power of God's Spirit.
If I were explaining the 'Kingdom of God' to an unsaved person ELB, I wouldn't share Romans 8:38,39 with him, unless he was asking about why a Christian could possibly have such a strong confidence & hope in this God - why a Christian could persevere through difficulties, even persecutions, to be faithful to such a God. Maybe, elements of this chapter could be used in such a situation.
"Could I also have such a hope & confidence as you have", he asks. I reply, "Most certainly, when you truly repent of your sins & turn to God's Provision of a Sacrifice (found only in His Son Jesus Christ) to deal with those sins & to forgive you entirely. You are then accepted by God, & coming to Him on His Terms, you enter into His family, enjoying His Blessings, with His Spirit in you to give you such a hope & power to live this life & finally enter into His Presence. Then whatever befalls you in this life, you are eternally secure in His Love & nothing - but nothing - can separate you from that Love." Romans 8:35-39.
If I simply gave an unbeliever this Truth in Romans chapter 8, I should expect to be derided & disdained, for such Truth would be as pearls cast before swine, unappreciated, even meaningless. This whole chapter is for those whose life is in Christ Jesus - whose "life is hid with Christ in God". And this same confidence is kept in store (waiting in hope), that one day the 'groaning in pain of all creation' will cease, when the new heavens & earth will be ushered in. But my unbeliever 'friend' who receives the witness from the Word, can only share in that hope if he repents now & is born again of God's Spirit. If he refuses, the Word stands against him: "For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven."
What is DISOBEDIENCE:
Is it not, not believing what God says.
Not believing is disobedience.
Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD that WORKETH in you TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
Most DON'T BELIEVE these WORD'S of God.
Do you believe that everything being done, IN YOU and BY YOU, is God's will and is God's work.
Isaiah 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of my anger, and the staff in their hand is my indignation.
Isaiah 10:6 And I WILL send him against a hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath WILL I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and tread them down like the mire in the streets.
Isaiah 10:12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, that when the Lord hath performed HIS WHOLE WORK upon mount Zion and on Jerusalem, I WILL punish the fruit of the stout heart of the king of Assyria, and the glory of his high looks.
Isaiah 10:13 For he saith, by the strength of MY HAND I HAVE DONE IT .......
God didn't punish the king for stealing, raping the women, dashing the children against the streets, and killing men:
He punished him because he thought HE DID IT instead of UNDERSTANDING it was THE WORK'S of GOD through his hand.
TRUTH:
We are the vessel; Christ is the LIFE, TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.
Not believing these words causes us to walk in disobedience.
The sins of the flesh are covered by the blood of Christ; NOT BELIEVING his WORDS keeps us from being ONE.
Ephesians 4:4 There is ONE BODY (man) and ONE SPIRIT (Life and Truth).
God Bless You!
If yes ; just Get saved and God will do the rest , no need to do any thing , a common response . No fear or concerns .
If no : then be careful how you live , it could be fatal . Yes with faith and Gods help we can do it , common response , its worth it considering the option.
This must be the biggest question of all time in my Opinion . My belief is Only the Bible has the truth , and it must convince any one , or they just my get deceived . Jesus said Beware lest any man deceive you . Our eternity is at stake .
Thank you for your response. It is much appreciated. Just as I was saying in my other posts, it is nice to get feedback from others. However, I must say that the Bible is very clear in it's warning to all believers about falling away. There is no such thing in the Bible that says true believers will never fall away. If that was the case the Bible would be clear about that. However, the Bible is clear, like it or not, that salvation is conditional on our continued faith and walk with Christ. It is very easy for one to say "true believers" will never fall away. However, the only believers in the Bible are "true" believers that the writers are writing to. This idea that once someone is saved they are just automatically always saved, even if they live in disobedience, conflicts with the Word of God that says in Heb. 5:9 that Christ is the author of eternal life for those who obey him. Now, you mention physical death for those who are disobedient, but, James 5:19-20 mentions the spiritual death from "brethren" who err from the truth. Brethren are believers. So, as you can see Christians are not just automatically saved. Paul even knew this and address this many times over. Lastly, don't misrepresent 1 Cor. 11:30 as all encompassing. While there are some who were disobedient and it led to sickness and death, that does not account for those who willfully walk away from Christ. Those are 2 different things. The problem with those who believe in OSAS is that they always need to slightly twist verses out of context to fit their agenda, whereas I just let the Bible speak for itself in it's proper context. Whether you like it or not, the Bible is clear that salvation is conditional on our continued faith in Christ. No endurance to the end, no salvation.
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
It is likely that Christian churches down through the centuries have always had more false believers than true. The Bible is written to the Church to the saved and lost together, and God never encourages believers to take comfort in their salvation and ignore their responsibility to go on with God. Those believers who do not pay attention to God's word and never get saved will end up falling away into hell.
True believers have a responsibility to walk with God in fear and trembling, seeking always to please Him and obey His word. A true believer who walks in disobedience cannot be lost again, but he can become less profitable and may be taken out of the world early because of that.
For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
However, the Bible is full of warnings for professing believers not to trust in their profession if their profession is not genuine. That is where so many Christians confuse fake Christianity with real Christianity. Christians who are truly born again will never lose their salvation and they are told in 2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Christians are not to be puffed up and idle about their profession. Christians need to make their calling and election sure by growing in the Lord to gain the assurance from Him that they are right with God and not just deceived.
False Christians should also give diligence to apply themselves to seeking the Lord and studying the Bible to discover that they are not saved and need to seek salvation that is real.
Nobody "does things" to get saved. Doing things will help the sinner find or gain assurance of salvation, but will not give the sinner credit with God by which to earn or buy salvation.
Since we are on the topic, I'd love if you can offer some insight on Romans 2: 6-8. That verse also appears to lead the reader to conclude eternal life can be lost. Your insight on this is greatly appreciated!
I'm happy to discuss Colossians 1:23. It says "if you continue," and it sounds like its conditional. You can be reconciled, have the promise of this position before God in His representation of you, but if you don't continue.
This is the construction in Greek that's called the first class condition assumed to be true. He's not saying if you continue on. He's saying since you are continuing in the faith, and listen to this: having been grounded and settled, and not being moved away.
There's a lot there, but basically having been grounded, every Christian that receives Christ has been grounded, and they continue on because of that. They are settled in Christ. They have received Christ. And then we have a Present Participle in the Greek text: "And are not continually being in the promise of being moved away."
So it's not just a one-time condition where somebody says "I moved away from Christ and I lost all my salvation." There are people who are in the process of continually being removed from Christ. They are not true believers. They do not continue.
In fact, Jesus in John 8:30-31 tells us that to those Jews who have believed in Him, He says my genuine disciples continue in my word.
That's one of the characteristics of a believer. Some people you have to nag to stay in the word. If a believer, somebody who is born of the Spirit of God, if he or she tried to get away from the word, they are miserable.
And so with a genuine believer, Jesus says that they will continue in my word. If you try to stop, the Lord will convict you and deal with you. That's a characteristics of a true believer.
We don't get this from our English text because English is such a general language. But the Greek text reads, "Since (you are) continuing in the faith, having already been grounded and settled, and (you are) not being moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Again, I really appreciate your response, and I am actually hoping you could offer further insight into Col. 1:23. As I re-read this passage in scripture I notice that there does appear to be a condition to our salvation that does hinge on our continued faith in Christ. I do understand what you mean by salvation being a promise, but, even promises do often have conditions. I hear that a lot from my brothers and sisters in Christ who believe in Eternal Security, but, just don't see how unconditional security lines up with scripture. Let's look at Col. 1:23 "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel". We see 2 things going on here that make this conditional. 1st, we see that we must "continue" in the faith. 2nd, we must not be "moved away". It is only when those 2 conditions are met that Christ will present us as holy and un-blamable.
If I may ask, when the writers of the KJV of the Bible were translating Col. 1: 23 why did they not just say "those who are filled with the Holy Spirit will endure to the end"? It just seems to confuse the reader to translate this as a conditional statement, but, not have any conditions to it. God is not the author of confusion, and I believe the writers of the KJV were inspired by the Holy Spirit, so why would Col. 1:23 be worded this way?
I value your insight and follow up, as I love friendly dialogue. thanks!
Very well said, Amen! That was the teaching in the early church. A person had to be born of God's Spirit in order to claim Christ as their Lord and savior. Romans 8:9 tells us that if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
If I might add, salvation is not conditional based on what we do, but on what Jesus Christ has done for us. Colossians 1:23 says, "If ye continue in the faith," so it sounds conditional. But the literal translation from the Greek is, but the one who (has endured), not the one who will, but the one who has endured unto the end, this one will be saved.
Because it is an Aorist Participle in the Greek, it shows the proof of those who are saved, and it matches the rest of the teachings in the New Testament. The person who is saved WILL endure to the end, guaranteed! So we have the proof, and secondly, the promise of salvation. That is a promise!
I heard someone once say that the bible uses a lot of future tenses to show that salvation isn't here, it is later. No! That is a promise. A person is saved now. And when all this is over, the ones who will be saved are the ones who have endured unto the end.
So, I agree that only those who endure to the end in faith will reap eternal life, but I would also say that the person who is saved (Born of God's Spirit), that person will endure to the end. Why? Because God's Spirit in them will cause them to endure to the end. Like you say, we are the ones being kept by the power of God through faith. He keeps us saved, all the way to the end.
Again, very well said, and thank you for sharing this!!!
We, as followers of Christ, need to follow the Holy Spirit and set our minds on the things above. We were once alienated from Christ based on our wicked works ( Eph. 2: 2-3). We were once children of darkness, but, now are saved by the blood of Christ. He is the one who presents us holy and un-blamable in the sight of God IF we continue in the faith ( Col. 1: 21-23; Gal. 5: 1-5). We also see that Biblical faith is one that expresses itself in love ( gal. 5: 6). We need to remember that only those who endure to the end in faith will reap eternal life ( Romans 2: 6-11; Gal. 6: 7-9; Mt. 10: 22; 1 Jn. 2: 24-25; 1 Cor. 15; 1-2).
Note the first couple verses where prayer and a general attitude of love was shown (Christ until the end had him as a "trusted friend" ( Psalm 41:9). The curses on the wicked indeed can affect generations in the future (v. 10). Satan himself; in fact entered Judas after the sop was offered and at that point Jesus told him to do what he had planned quickly. When we look at verse 6; we are also reminded of the nation of Israel as a whole ( John 5:43). They will accept Antichrist with Satan at his "right hand" as Revelation states. Verse 18 speaks of another verse about Judas mentioned in Acts 1:18 and detailed in the Gospel of Matthew when he fell off the rope he hung himself with. We are also reminded of the situation of Acts 12:23 with Herod; and other verses where similar ailments took away the wicked.
From verse 20 on; we of course can apply similar logic with David's situation as the Son of David; namely Christ Himself. Verse 28 seems to refer to the Resurrection of the wicked (when they rise); as every knee shall bow; every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of the Father in Philippians 2:10-11; but also in Isaiah and many other books of scripture as well.
We must look to Deuteronomy to understand that God still blesses the "thousands" that call on His name; despite generational banishment and curses for the disobedience and sin actions of ancestors ( Deut. 5:9-10). This chapter though shows how someone can be called AND chosen; albeit with the foreknowledge that they would be of the Devil from the beginning. This was of course to fulfill prophecy; but also God uses the enemy to buffet servants such as Job and Paul to accomplish His purposes. Let us not ascribe to such behavior ourselves! Surely we do not understand all His ways; nor forsee how all things for those who LOVE Him turn out for the good ( Romans 8:28).
Ephesians 4:14-32, 1Corinthians 2, Psalms 139, Colossians 3:12-17, Isaiah 26:3, Philippians 2:3,
2Timothy 1:7,
* Romans 12:1-2, Romans 12, Psalms 1:1
Hopefully these are helpful
Deuteronomy 4:29,30,31, 1Samuel 26:24, Matthew 13:20-21, John 16:33, Acts 14:22, Romans 5:3, Romans 8:35-39, Romans 12:12, 2Corinthians 1:3-5, 1Thessalonians 3:4, 2Thessalonians 1:6, Revelation 1:9, Revelation 2:9,10,22,
There seems to be a difference between tribulation & The great Tribulation,
Matthew 24:21, Romans 2, Revelation 7:14,
Matthew 24:3-51, Mark 13:4-37,
1 Peter 4:8 - And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
Galatians 5:22 - But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Romans 8:6 - For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
1 Thessalonians 4:4 - That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
Romans 13:10 - Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Ephesians 4:1-3 - I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, (Read More...)
1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
Colossians 3:14 - And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Ephesians 5:9 - (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
1 Corinthians 13:13 - And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Matthew 7:15-20 - Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. (Read More...)
John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
1 Corinthians 13:1-5 - Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity (LOVE) I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal__
Romans 8:26,
Hopefully these are helpful
Colossians 2:16 Let therefore no man judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the SABBATH DAYS:
Colossians 2:17 Which are a SHADOW of things to come; but the BODY (YOU) are OF CHRIST.
Hebrews 10:1 For THE LAW having a SHADOW of good things to come ....
Romans 8:2 For the LAW of the SPIRIT OF LIFE (the TRUE) in Christ Jesus hath made me free from THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH (the shadow).
Hebrews 4:8 And he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God DID REST the seventh day (the shadow) from all HIS WORKS.
Hebrews 4:10 And he (YOU) that has ENTERED INTO THAT REST (the TRUE SABBATH), he (YOU) also have ceased from your works, as God did from his.
Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed DO ENTER INTO REST (the TRUE SABBATH) ....the WORKS WERE FINISHED from the foundation of the world.
God spoke ALL THE WORDS before the foundation of the world, then RESTED, those words are being FULFILLED in the ORDER that he SPOKE THEM.
Christ rested when he finished speaking those words, you DESTINY, that you will be conformed into the IMAGE OF CHRIST, are inside those words spoken before the foundation of the world.
CEASE FROM YOUR WORKS and enter into the TRUE SABBATH, YOU WILL BE THE IMAGE OF CHRIST.
1 Corinthians 15:58 ....always abounding in the WORK OF THE LORD (those words spoken before the foundation of the world) ...
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this one thing (God's words will be fulfilled), that He (THE WORD) which hath began a good work IN YOU WILL PERFORM IT until the the DAY (you become the IMAGE) of Jesus Christ.
God Bless YOU!
People look at scriptures in light of their beliefs, most often what they have been taught from childhood.
Those teaching most often were inspired by man's teachings. These teachings are ingrained and VERY HARD TO OVERCOME.
Mosses and the Prophets is all about the KINGDOM OF GOD.
When you understand Mosses and the Prophets, the New Testament will align with Mosses and the Prophets.
The OLD teaches ALL CREATION, at some point (in the coming ages) will be reconciled to God.
The Old teaches God does things at an appointed time, because the WORDS were spoken before the foundation of the worlds and are being fulfilled in that order.
The Old is a shadow of the NEW, that GOD CHOOSES certain ones as vessels of mercy and certain ones as vessels of dishonour.
Those CHOSEN in this age will become Ministering spirits: those not CHOSEN, will lay in the grave UNTIL the RESURRECTION OF JUDGEMENT.
When God raises those in the graves back to their flesh, Christ and his ministering spirits will JUDGE THEM and bring them to TRUTH.
Isaiah 5:13 Therefore my people (his creation) have gone into captivity, because they have no KNOWLEDGE .....
God is solving this problem of NO KNOWLEDGE by giving his creation the MIND OF CHRIST; but in his appointed time, to fulfil the WORDS SPOKEN.
Isaiah 11:9 ...for the earth SHALL BE FULL OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD .....
Romans 8:20 For creation was MADE SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly .....
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation OF CREATION WAITETH (God's appointed time) for the manifestation of the SONS OF GOD.
Romans 8:21 For CREATION ITSELF shall be delivered from corruption (the grave) INTO THE GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD.
1 Timothy 4:10 Therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN (even those that are saved in the age of judgement), SPECIALLY THOSE WHO (are caused) to BELIEVE.
James 1:5,
Hopefully these are helpful
God bless u and yours in Jesus Name, love u in Christ Romans 7:1-6 and Romans 8:11
God bless u and yours in Jesus Holy Name, love u in Christ. Romans 7:1-6 ond Romans 8:11
She must make sure and keep herself clean in thoughts words and deeds. Without her, they will be lost. So she need to eat and also receive Spiritual nourishment so that she have something to go on. This is the first, we are not to destroy the temple of God, are we? 1 Corintihans 3:17 And the branch that believes in Him is valuable, as long as the branches bear fruit :) John 15:2
You have to decide this for yourself, but as far as i know the world, it does us no good! Because then our thought comes to utilization and it seems very worldly.
The world has no care for me either, it's probably pretty normal and feel that way. But remember Martha and Maria. Martha struggled and i can believe she got quite tired and even exhausted. While Mary received spiritual food. Luke 10:38-42 The best way is the Spiritual, although one must also take worldly chores occasionally, one can always Glorify God in what one does.
God bless u and yours in Jesus Name, love u in Christ. Romans 7:1-6 and Romans 8:11
God bless u and yours in Jesus name, love u in Christ.
Those, like yourself, who believe that the Sabbath is the "day God blessed & sanctified", need to also consider some other questions on this matter.
Questions such as: to whom was this Law (& indeed all Laws), given? What was the purpose of these Laws?
What is the meaning & requirements of the Sabbath? Was it any more than a rest day, a cessation of all work?
Is the Church that is formed under the New Covenant, obliged to come under those Laws (this Church which now comprised both saved Jews & Gentiles)?
When there was an instance in Acts 15:1-31, where the demand for Gentiles to be first circumcised & to keep the Law of Moses to be saved had to be dealt with, what was the response & apostolic decision? I'm sure you know the passage well. Did the apostles ever require the Gentiles, or any new believer, to come under the Mosaic Law?
If the Old Law only brought condemnation ( 2 Corinthians 3:6-17) & had to be done away with through Christ's Death, how is the Christian now able to know & fulfil the Laws of God?
If a believer now believes that he needs to keep the Laws & Sabbath in particular, can he condemn another who doesn't & who has understood the liberty Jesus gained for him to obey, to live, to worship God, as the Holy Spirit directs ( Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:1-4,18,25)?
Just a few questions to consider - not expecting answers, but hopefully to direct your mind to the full meaning of the full redemption we now have in Christ Jesus: redemption from sin's penalty & redemption from the Law's curse. We now obey many more Laws of God, more than what was given to the Jews to obey, & we do so from the continual ministry & power of God's Spirit.
"Could I also have such a hope & confidence as you have", he asks. I reply, "Most certainly, when you truly repent of your sins & turn to God's Provision of a Sacrifice (found only in His Son Jesus Christ) to deal with those sins & to forgive you entirely. You are then accepted by God, & coming to Him on His Terms, you enter into His family, enjoying His Blessings, with His Spirit in you to give you such a hope & power to live this life & finally enter into His Presence. Then whatever befalls you in this life, you are eternally secure in His Love & nothing - but nothing - can separate you from that Love." Romans 8:35-39.
If I simply gave an unbeliever this Truth in Romans chapter 8, I should expect to be derided & disdained, for such Truth would be as pearls cast before swine, unappreciated, even meaningless. This whole chapter is for those whose life is in Christ Jesus - whose "life is hid with Christ in God". And this same confidence is kept in store (waiting in hope), that one day the 'groaning in pain of all creation' will cease, when the new heavens & earth will be ushered in. But my unbeliever 'friend' who receives the witness from the Word, can only share in that hope if he repents now & is born again of God's Spirit. If he refuses, the Word stands against him: "For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven."