The Israel that God has in view is spiritual Israel consisting of all those who are born from above by the Spirit of the living God and justified by the faith of Christ.
We read in Galatians 6:14-16
14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
The Israel of God consist of all those who are in Christ Jesus, regardless of whatever political nation they may come from. We read in Romans 2:28-29
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
To be a Jew inwardly, and to be circumcised in the heart, means to have one's sins cut off by virtue of the atoning work of the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave his life that men might be set free from bondage and slavery to sin. It has nothing to do with whatever nation one comes from.
Romans 2:22 - Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
You who says a man should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You that abhorrest idols, and the Jews abhorred idols.
The text is Deuteronomy 7:25-26 which told them that they were not to have idols, and they were not to enter into the temple of pagans who worship idols. The word abhor means to be nauseated. You are sick at the thought of idols.
Do you commit sacrilege? The word sacrilege means to rob the idols. What they would do was they'd go into the temples, and they would say "You guys are pagans, and you have idol worshipping going on."
So, they would tear the temple down and destroy it. And they would take the idols home and melt them down and make it part of their possessions. Do idols make you sick? And yet you rob them? You take them home with you?
Romans 3:2 - Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
He says much in every way: chiefly, because unto them were committed the oracles of God. The word oracles is a diminutive word of the word "word," the different principles of laws of God. They're privileged and they were given the law of God. That's a very privileged person.
Romans 3:4 - God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
God forbid: Literally in the Greek it says, "May it not happen."
Romans 3:14 - Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
The word cursing doesn't mean to swear. It means to wish destruction on people.
Romans 2:6 - Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
The word render is the Greek word for paycheck. Everybody is going to get paid for what they did. We understand the word deeds as activity. This is not individual things that we have done, but everyone will have to answer for the activity that has gone on in their life over their entire life.
Has it been the activity of Christ, or has it been the activity of the world? Everyone will have to answer how they spent their life.
Romans 2:7 - To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing do seek for glory and honour and immortality, to them will be given eternal life:
Notice patient continuance. Jesus said in Matthew Chapter 24 Verse 13 "He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." That's not a requirement. That is a characteristic. Everybody who's saved will make it to the end because they have the Holy Spirit. It is a characteristic of a person who is saved.
It says to the patient continuance in well doing. The word well is the word for good that is Spiritual good. It is the word AGATHOS. They continually spent their time in the good of the Lord, the things of Christ. To them they will be given eternal life.
Romans 2:20 - An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
The word form means outline. You don't have the substance. You just have the form.
Romans 1:31 - Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Without understanding. The Greek word means spiritual understanding. They have no spiritual understanding anymore.
Romans 1:32 - Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Not only do they do the same things while they know judgment is coming, as far as death, but they have pleasure in them that do them. The word pleasure in the Greek means to applaud. They cheer on the other people who are doing the same thing!
Romans 2:2 - But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
There are four principles given in Chapter 2 Verses 2 through 16 that start with the word KATA in the Greek. KATA is a preposition, and it means according to. God judges according to the truth. We see in Romans 2:11 that God is no respecter of persons. He doesn't look at somebody and say "Oh, you're Jewishno problem! Oh, you're a Gentileget out of here!" God judges according to the facts with every single person no matter who they are.
Romans 2:5 - But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
But after the hardness and your impenitent heart, and the word hardness is where we get our word callousness from. You know how when you go out and work in the yard, and you haven't done it in a long time, you get blisters. But after you been out there a while, you build up callouses because it continues to rub one time after another and after another until it builds up a resistance to it.
Some people are like that spiritually. God's Spirit continues to minister to them, and they keep rejecting it and they keep suppressing the truth to where their heart becomes calloused against the Lord.
The first Adam, his disobedience brought sin and death into the world, Romans 5:12-19. The last Adam by obedience to God brought forgiveness and life, the resurrection from the dead, 1 Corinthians 15:21-22.
Adam and Eve were naked and were not ashamed, their hearts were uncorrupted and free from sin. After they ate the forbidden fruit their eyes were opened, their consciences were opened to the knowledge of good and evil, and sin replaced the purity they had. They had a sense of fear and disgrace due to their disobedience.
The shame they now felt was due to the sinful nature that entered them and now they no longer perfectly perceived things, their view of their nakedness should be covered. Nakedness was not a sin, but a fallen perception of nakedness brought shame and sorrow they now felt.
As God covered Adam and Eve with coats of skins to cover their shame/nakedness. Our nakedness of shame can be covered with the garment Isaiah 61:10 given by Jesus. We in Jesus shall not be found naked, but clothed, with the garment of Christ's righteousness, our sins covered and cleansed by the blood of Jesus that makes it spotless and white as long as we continue in faith and overcome.
Concerning those that do not die in the Lord, that do not watch, and keep their garments will walk naked, their sins will be open to being seen, Revelation 16:151 Timothy 4:1-2Revelation 20:15.
Every human being, whether they're saved or unsaved, and regardless of their culture, ethnicity, or background, has a conscience, Romans 2:14-15. Inside this conscience is the battle between the flesh and the Spirit Romans 9:1 we can repent and be covered, if not we will be naked and found guilty. We cannot hide what is in our conscience, it records every good and evil we have ever done or thought. I feel this is where we are naked or clothed. Romans 4:6-82 Corinthians 1:121 Timothy 1:19Hebrews 9:9Hebrews 13:181 Peter 3:21.
I would say that God is very fair, for He is a righteous and just God. It is the world that is not fair. It is humanity itself that's not fair.
Ezekiel 18:25, "Yet you say, "The way of the Lord is not fair." Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not my way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair?"
There were those in the house of Israel who were questioning the fairness of God. God's response was that His ways are completely fair, and that they were the ones who were unfair.
Leviticus 19:15 would show how God values fairness. It says, "Do not pervert justice; do not show favoritism to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly."
The very nature of God is that He is fair and just. There are several places in the bible that show how fair God is. Here are just a few places in scripture that show the fairness of God: Matthew 20:16, Romans 2:11, 1 Peter 1:17.
Would you be able to share why you feel God does not put much value on fairness? Also, what is your take on the parable of the talents?
Our Lord JESUS maked this very clear, saying: John 14:1-3
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in GOD, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Matthew 25:31-34 and 41&46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Get ready-> Acts 14:22
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the RIGHTEOUS into life ETERNAL.( Romans 2:7-11.Take a look)
Revelation 20:4
4-And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them( Revelation 11:16-17), and Judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of GOD, and which had not worshipped the Beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The most important thing is to be with Him, no matter where or in what place, the problem is to be cast into the fire of hell.--> Matthew 10:28-take a look.
Part 1: The corruption of the universe after the fall.
(Sorry I missed deleting some of my later commentary in the last posting).
In the song "Leaving Eden" at least Brandon Heath's version gives a sobering reminder of man's decay and plight. God has as Ecclesiastes states put eternity in their hearts ( Ecclesiastes 3:11); one aspect of which is always looking back to Eden or finding something that pleases the five senses to give the illusion that we can once again retreat to our own utopia.
One look at our bodies in the mirror after a few decades reminds us of reality. The destruction of the outer shell made from the dust of the earth is the fate of all of us due to what is known as the 2nd law of thermodynamics where all things in the universe at present are in a state of decay. The soul of unregenerate man has nothing to hold onto but memories; which become more and more corrupted and delusional as our mind deteriorates and sin hardens men's hearts. The conscience becomes more and more seared and eventually sin has its full result leading to death; which is spiritual death once the body dies. In reality one is dead spiritually even when living on this earth without Christ. (read Romans 6).
The good news is that before we know the law we are innocent ( Romans 7:9). This would appear to be another verse showing how those before a certain age of accountability have a sin nature but don't understand enough to deliberately sin against God.
We shudder to think of events such as a 5 year old getting hold of a gun and killing a parent or sibling although it does happen. Surely they wouldn't be convicted for murder. I have said this before; that it isn't one's fault that they are born this way; but it is if they are old enough to decide to live it out and remain that way as man has a conscience at least before totally seared ( Romans 2:15). See also 1 Timothy 4:2. In my next posting I am going to discuss man's vs. God's understanding of good and evil.
We all have inside us, a sinful nature from the first Adam, we also have a conscience, the knowledge of good and evil, and the knowledge of God. We first see this when Adam and Eve hid themselves because they were naked. We see some go so far into the darkness that their conscience can be seared, the conscience no longer tells them good from evil, 1 Timothy 4:2. There is a point where God turns them over to a reprobate mind, Romans 1:28-32.
I believe there will be those who enter eternity who have never heard the gospel, and those who lived before Jesus first came because we have a loving and just God.
Romans 2:11-16 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
My understanding is this will happen at the great white throne judgment, Revelation 20:11-15, in this it says, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire". If some were not found in the Book of Life means some were found in it. I know many may not agree but if we consider verses like Daniel 12:2Matthew 25:31-46John 5:28-29 to me these also point to this white throne judgment.
I am sure our loving and just God communicates with those who have not had a chance to read or hear Scripture, I believe the blood of Christ will cover them as well.
Hello Jaz, good morning.. I believe that those will be judged by their conscience, the light they had and or rejected. As the Scripture says in Romans 2:12-26, & John 1:9, 3:19-20. Thank you for your question.....
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Here's the message for today, and for days ahead, day by day, and henceforward, until the END of all things, and END this world as a whole.
Genesis 19:13 reveals the voice sounded in Sodom: We will destroy this place,... but now, even now, from now on, the same voice will destroy the current world of Devil as a whole, as was prophesied, since ancient time. The same Word, the Word of GOD, GOD Himself, must sound, self-executing it. Heavens and earth shall PASS AWAY, but my Words shall not pass away, says my Lord, so
Get ready
There shall be wrath against the wicked- Romans 2:8-9 combined with Revelation 11:18, among many biblical references- see, only Judgment and Justice will support you. Righteousness and Judgment are the foundation of GOD's Throne.
Question. In Romans 8:28-29 says, "28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.29For whom he did FOREKNOW, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.". What does that "foreknow" stand for? God foreknew what?
Another question. 1 Timothy 2:4, "Who(God) will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.". If God wants ALL people to be saved, why does He choose some specific people for salvation, and not all?
Third and final question. Romans 2:6-10, "6Who(God) will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Here it says that God will save or judge people according to their deeds. But why is this since salvation is granted by faith and not works? Doesn't those seem to be in contrast to one other? What are your thoughts on those?
14For when the Gentiles, which HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, HAVING NOT THE LAW, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16In the Day (this Day arrived, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium) when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ (the Judgment Seat of Christ) according to my gospel.
Get ready
12For as many as have sinned WITHOUT LAW(the Gentiles)shall also PERISH WITHOUT LAW:and as many as have sinned in the LAW shall be JUDGED by the LAW;
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself WRATH against the Day of WRATH and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;(This Day arrived)
6 Who will render to EVERY MAN according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION AND WRATH,
(What is written in the verses 7 and 8 above will be LITERALLY fulfilled from now on. The Word is GOD, GOD HIMSELF, self-executing,understand?)
9TRIBULATION and ANGUISH, upon EVERY SOUL of man that doeth evil,of the JEW first,and also of the GENTILE;
( Isaiah 26:20-21->20 Come,my people,enter thou into thy chambers,and shut thy doors about thee:HIDE THYSELF as it were for a little moment(the last week-week 70th- Daniel 9:27),until the INDIGNATION be overpast. 21 For,behold, the LORD cometh out of His place to PUNISH the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity( Matthew 24:10-13): the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain)
10But glory,honour,and peace,to every man that worketh good,to the JEW first,and also to the GENTILE;
c. just considering the two passages you shared about "obeying the commandments":
Romans 2:12,13 which needs to be considered in its entirety Romans 2:12-16. Verse 12: Paul refers to those without the Law (i.e. Gentiles) will perish, just as those of Israel (in the Law), who sin will perish. Verse 13: only the doers of the Law (i.e. those given the Law) will be justified (but none have kept the Law perfectly leading to justification). Verses 14,15: Paul confirms that the Gentiles never received the Law, but by nature/conscience sake demonstrate the working of the Law within them. And so Gentiles construct their own law to suit their lives/consciences, yet without God's Law being their motivation & yardstick.
So these verses don't tell me that Christians come under the Law to obey them, rather they speak of Gentiles who have not received the Law, avoid God's Work of appealing to their (some of their) hearts, & ultimately refusing to hear & obey the Gospel that can deliver them from the agony & weight of their sin. These, along with Israel who do not keep God's Laws perfectly (as none can anyway), will perish, without the One Who came to fulfil the Law & redeem them by being their substitute for sin's punishment.
Not a problem Momsage. I'm more than happy to converse with anyone who wishes to do so, though I was careful to not overstep the bounds you had once set to your communicants.
I understand that you're referencing only the 10 Commandments as the Law given, & as I stated, to Israel only. So your questions:
a. when we refer to Gentiles, we can think of all those outside of God's special called-out people; those of old-time who never even heard of such a Law & were a law unto themselves, and now to us now, who have heard of the Law, but are brought under subjection to governments of men. So, what standards do the Gentiles follow? Those of old times, Romans 2:14 applies, "...the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves", but the 'working of the law is upon their hearts, excusing or accusing them'. Those under civil government are subject to the 'laws of the land' regardless of how well govts adhere to Divine Law or not. Many gentiles today, as those of yesteryear, have no idea of those laws given to Israel, but they do know that civil law bares its ruthless arm against them.
b. the "imputed laws that Jesus expects us (Christians?) to obey", would be everything that we need to know & obey according to the dictates of the Holy Spirit within us. And these 'laws' I think you would agree, go far far beyond the abridged Decalogue. E.g. you won't find the sin of Pride in the Decalogue, yet as Christians we immediately are given conviction & the need for repentance when pride surfaces in our thoughts or speech. Yet, we get a problem: a conviction to one may not always be a conviction to another believer; e.g. a white lie, wearing immodest clothing, using slightly flowery language, etc. Each one of us has to stand before God for our lives, knowing that not all of us have gained the same spiritual understanding/maturity to know & act upon deviations from righteous living.
Hi Chris: I'm really sorry I didn't let you know I was posting again and if you'd rather not do this discussion I'm fine with that.
When I refer to the law I am only referencing the 10 commandments. It's my sense that you are saying that the law was purely for the Jews only, does that includes the 10 commandments? if you are saying that the 10 commands were only for the Jews then I do have some questions:
A) What standard do the gentiles follow in order to live righteous lives for God if not the commandments?
B) What are the imputed laws that Jesus expects us to obey?
C) There are so many verses in the new testament that deal with obeying the commandments, like the two below. What do you believe they are telling us?
Romans 2:12-13
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous.
James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. God Bless :0
21 For then shall be great TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time(this current time), no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (The theory of being caught(pre-trib) before this event of "days shall be shortened" is wrong, it's a nonsense).
Isaiah 26:20-21
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment (seven years), until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
Romans 2:6-11
6 GOD will render to every MAN according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
Revelation 11:15 and 18
15 ... The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.
18 And the nations were(will be)angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged( Daniel 12:2. Take a look), and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.
And Jesus replied, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things." ( Luke 20:8).
The Pharisees; who derided Christ throughout His public ministry had this to say shortly before the crucifixion. Jesus shut them out; as well as remaining silent soon after during Pilate's interrogation. Self exaltation and justification wasn't necessary for Christ didn't seek to be served but to serve and give His life for a ransom for many. ( Mark 10:45) The fact is; the Pharisees and religious leaders should have known who He was; and therefore were operating in deliberate blindness; uniquely qualifying them to commit the unpardonable sin. (See Matthew 12:24).
Part of the concept of the verse on "casting pearls before swine" ( Matt. 7:6) relates to this. Jesus hid meanings of the Parables to others who were deliberately spiritually blind (see Matthew 13:34; and Matthew 13:15; Isaiah 42:19-20). John 9:39-41 shows the end of an entire chapter related to a blind man's healing; where Jesus explains how men are made blind to the truth; but the Pharisees after asking if that was the intention of what Jesus said were still left with the judgment for themselves because they could see and were responsible for their sin.
These are sobering reminders that man is not justified in any righteousness of their own and estranged from God from the womb ( Psalm 58:3); yet has a conscience given by God where men are judged more harshly that know the law ( Romans 2:15).
Jesus warned that judgment would be worse for those cities that rejected Him than for Sodom and Gomorrah ( Matthew 10:15).
This attitude led to the unpardonable sin; blasphemy of the Holy Spirit where Beelzebub was attributed to Christ's healing rather than God ( Matthew 12:22). The issue of forgiveness of sins was truly where the problem was; since the miracles were manifold.
Nonetheless; Jesus wouldn't use His power to save Himself on the cross or when unbelief was present (see Matthew 13:58).
Romans 2:9 states: There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile..
(NIV); but says tribulation and anguish in the KJV. There is another verse stating that judgment begins at the house of God. ( 1 Peter 4:17).
Just as not all Israel is Israel ( Romans 9:6); not all the "professing" church is the possessing church; that is possessing the Holy Spirit and true salvation. Jesus made that perfectly clear to those who thought because they were the physical descendants of Abraham that gave them some sort of benefit were sadly mistaken ( John 8:39-44). Those who had seen Christ; knew the prophecies about the Messiah and yet rejected Him would in fact be worse off than Sodom and Gomorrah in their punishment. ( Matt. 11:21-24). We see similar warnings for those who have knowledge of the truth and become reprobate; in that it would be better not to have known it in the first place ( 2 Peter 2:21).
Testing ourselves to see if we are in the faith is sadly lacking today among professing believers; or we would see a reality check in the fruits of many lives. ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). We can glibly see this example as a carnal bunch of people and think that being steeped in our own religious training or theology that we are automatically exempt from this test. I have said before that there are dangers in any extreme that is lacking the balancing attribute; such as with loving people and warning them of judgment to come ( John 16:8). We see in the Ephesian church everything being done properly but their first love somehow becoming distant in their hearts. Look at 1 Corinthians 13:6; love rejoices in the truth. The basic fact that man's heart is desperately wicked ( Jeremiah 17:9) and that our sin makes us enemies of God ( James 4:4) means that there is a wall between opposing parties and yes God is angry with the wicked (i.e. us) every day. ( Psalm 7:11). Having our heads in the sand doesn't help anyone.
There were many Jewish people in the Church of Rome,and the Apostle Paul in his universal epistle to the Church of Rome, he wrote: Romans 2:5-16:
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of WRATH and revelation of the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT of GOD;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION and WRATH,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew FIRST, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew FIRST, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD
12 For as many as have sinned WITHOUT Law(the Gentiles)shall also perish without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be Judged by the Law;
13 (For not the hearers of the Law are just before GOD, but the doers of the Law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the Law, do by nature the things contained in the Law, these, having not the Law, are a Law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the Law written in their hearts(Hallelujah!!), their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another-)
16 In the Day when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. (The Day arrived-Woe of the inhabiters of the Earth)
Armageddon; and the ultimate end of Satan at the end of the Millennial reign of Christ is the ultimate conclusion of God's plan in using the enemy of our soul to purge the world of rebels and to end the power of death completely with a new heaven and earth (see 1 Cor. 15:26; Revelation 21 and 22).
Eternal punishment fits the crime so we can understand as wicked as things have been throughout human history it has stored up wrath for Satan as well as the unregenerate ( Romans 2:5 and subsequent verses in that chapter). The philosophy of "do as thou wilt" that is prominent among self proclaimed Satanists is contrasted with a sacrificial love that only Christ can offer. Everything seems backwards but the Lord has the master plan no matter how clever men and their devices are to destroy Christ (see Psalm 5:10; and read Psalm 2). Unregenerate man simply cannot understand how being a servant or slave of Christ brings men to freedom and how the opposite appeals to the flesh leave one in bondage in the end. They think we can somehow go back to Eden (as seen in the humanistic music of the 60's); but we see the result of this "free love" in the 70's and beyond with the rapid decay of traditional families in regard to sustainability of marriages and the removal of God's design for a family and harmonious home life. Whether Satan himself ever realized how wicked he would become is debateable; it would appear that Antichrist himself and or other rulers may not have realized this in verses such as Isaiah 10:7. The enemy always wants to sugarcoat the extreme jeopardy of man remaining in a sinful state by distracting him with grand delusions that lead nowhere but to destruction.
We see in Psalm 23:5 a verse on eating in the presence of enemies which indeed we will do during the Millennium when some inevitably will rebel at the end and insanely under Satan attempt one final time to destroy God and His people leading to failure.
God chose Israel for a unique purpose. He wanted, and so He created a nation through Abraham, in order to preserve through them the faith to the true God until the Savior appears on earth. At that point their mission as a nation ended and the church took in charge. In the church all nations and people all over the world are included, including Hebrews, that little remnant that accepted and still accepting Christ. The purpose of the church is very different from that of Israel's. We have to bring the gospel of salvation to all people all over the world, that was not what Israel was expected to do, it wasn't their mission. So who is God's chosen people? Both, for different reasons. Israel for bringing the Savior to the world and the church for bringing Him all over the world. But we must know that Israel 's mission has ended 2th years ago and it is now the church that has a mission. If Israel had accepted Christ they would have been the most honourable and important nation in the church, but they didn't and they have been cut off the olive tree. But God preserves them for a reason. Because He knows that under the pressure of antichrist they will turn to Him that they crucified and so they will be saved at the end. But we must know that they are not saved now (neither for the past 2 th years) and if they end their lives in sin they will not go to Heaven. I don't know how God is going to judge them, according to their faith or according to their works/conscience? ( Romans 2:11-26). But it is going to be really tough for them in the Judgement for as long as they are not receiving Christ as their Savior.
Ephesians 2:3-14, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:Having predestinated us unto the adoption .."
You have just said in prior post that you have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. Here's the great problem of those which justifies themselves as keepers of the Sabbath day according to the letter of the Law, for as said James in his universal epistle- James 2:10- , "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all". What more does the Word of GOD say? Romans 2:12 ->... as many as have sinned in the Law shall be Judged by the Law, therefore, he who sins in the Law becomes guilty of all, then by the Law he will be condemned for sure. Galatians 3:11 - ...no man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.(are wretchad)
Galatians 3:8-10
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that GOD would justify the Gentiles through faith(not by the Law), preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the Law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Hebrews 4:
12 For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom WE MUST RENDER AN ACCOUNT.
What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is from everlasting to everslating, the Word is GOD, self-executing, self-executable. Great mystery.
Revelation 22
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. ( Romans 2:12 - As many as have sinned without Law(the Gentiles) shall also PERISH without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be Judged by the Law;)
15 Without are dogs(dogs? Isaiah 56:10-11.Take a look), and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
But the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The Word is GOD, self-executing, self-executable, understand?
Gal.3:22-29KJV->24The Law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ,that we might be Justified by Faith.
25But after that faith is come,we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26For ye are all the children of GOD by faith in Christ Jesus.
29And if ye be Christ's,then are ye Abraham's seed,and heirs according to the promise.
23 But before faith came,we were kept under the Law,shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
22 But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin,that the promise by faith of JESUS CHRIST might be given to them that believe.
ROMANS 2:6-12KJV
6 Who WILL RENDER to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,ETERNAL LIFE:
8 But unto them that are contentious,and do not obey the truth,but obey unrighteousness,INDIGNATION AND WRATH,
9 TRIBULATION and ANGUISH,upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the JEW,and also of the GENTILE;
10 But glory,honour,and peace,to every man that worketh good,to the JEW first,and also to the GENTILE:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
12 For as many as have sinned without Law(the GENTILES)shall also PERISH without Law:and as many as have sinned in the Law(the JEWS)shall be JUDGED by the Law;
By the way,we are now living LITERALLY in the period of SORROWS as my Lord JESUS said- Matthew 24:3-8- but it is a short period of events listed by JESUS, the worst comes soon when the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stands in the holy place( Matthew 24:21-25KJV -> 21 Then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time(current time), no, nor ever shall be.
22 EXCEPT those days(current days)be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake these days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there;(as is written in John 5:43-47) BELIEVE IT NOT.
In reading I am reminded of the contrast between Paul's words and words some Christians say.
Word of God through Paul: "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain." 1 Corinthians 9:24 KJV
Man's doctrine: "Don't run, because you already have the prize. It's bad to put effort into following God, because my pastor says that's legalism and obeying God's law is bad and pleasing God is bad."
James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."
Man's doctrine: "nah, ignore that verse, cause I'm told all good works are 'bad'. Bad works are ok though since you're already forgiven."
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
Man's doctrine: "just ignore this verse, but lets cherry pick something else and focus on that instead."
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Man's doctrine: "Nope, you're already saved right now, not later. So you don't have to endure anything or do anything whatsoever. Just do whatever feels good then rationalize it by saying that's the spirit doing it, not your sinful flesh."
Hebrews 10:36 "For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise."
Man's doctrine: "Nah, ignore that verse too. You already have the promise and prize. You don't need to do anything."
"But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Romans 2:10 KJV
Man's doctrine: "No, just ignore. Good is bad, but bad is fine, because salvation."
Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
Thank you David0921 for your detailed comments & for taking the time to do so. I'll address each part of your five parts.
Part 1: Fully agree about mankind's total spiritual depravity before God, for no sinner can ever find righteousness from within himself that will avert the Wrath of God. To the "Law of God" you referred to, I'll take it as 'the holy standards that God requires of man to which man will always fail God'; rather than the giving of the Law (God's Standards to Israel), to which the Gentile had no knowledge of, aside from the dictates of his conscience ( Romans 2:14,15).
Part 2: Again, fully agree that the sinner is totally incapable or desirous to attain God's Holy Standard for righteousness and God is completely justified in the eternal condemnation of the sinner.
Part 3: Some issues here. a. "What does it mean to be "justified"? It means that we stand perfectly just before the Law of God because we have paid the full penalty required by the Law of God for each and every one of our dirty rotten sins." Did you mean, 'our justification before God means that we can stand guiltless because 'we'(?) or is is 'Christ' that paid our full penalty?'
b. I also understand that Galatians 2:16 refers to those who were no longer under the Law, but would use the Law as well as Grace given through Christ's death, to find their righteousness & justification. This was the 'Works of the Law' referred to, when any of it was added to the faith found in Christ alone - for the Law never gave righteousness & acceptance before God. "for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Unless the Elect of God today is of Jewish descent & was once under the Law, this verse has no application to the Gentile elected of God who was never under the Law & could never & should never use that Law to add to his faith.
This is my favorite scripture because, you can dig into this scripture really deeply! James 1:19-20 is literally the main learning point of the old saying "God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason", we should should use our ears to listen and learn and when we gain wisdom through this we can then use that wisdom to teach through our mouths; Cross References= Proverbs 17:27 and Proverbs 14:29! James 1:21-24 goes to show that we should lay aside all disobedience and defiance, read the word and live it; Romans 2:13, Jeremiah 44:16, and 1 Thessalonians 1:5!
The word says that scripture has to be understood by applying other scriptures to it.
The NEW COVENANT, the gospel, was preached to THEM as well as unto US.
John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship, salvation is of the Jews.
Romans 2:29 For he is a JEW, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is in the heart, IN THE SPIRIT .....
Romans 8:2 For the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST, has made us free from the LAW of sin and DEATH ...
This same gospel was preached to them as well as us.
Psalms 119:1 Blessed are the UNDEFILED in the way ( John 14:6) who WALK in the LAW OF the LORD ( Romans 8:2).
Ezekiel 36:27 I will put my Spirit in you and cause you to WALK in my STATUTES, and keep my judgements and DO THEM.
Psalms 119:3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in HIS WAYS.
Psalms 119:5 Oh that my ways were directed to keep thy STATUTES!
The Spirit CAUSES us TO DO his will, the words that come out of our mouth, are his words, the works of our hands, are his works.
Isaiah 48:18 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this, I have not spoken in secret from the beginning, from the time that it was, there am I, and HIS SPIRIT HAS SENT ME ( Romans 8:2).
John 14:24 ...and the word ye hear are not mine, but the Father's which sent me ....
Mark 10:8 And they TWAIN shall be ONE FLESH: so they are no more TWAIN, but ONE FLESH ...
The same SPIRIT that sent Christ and raised him up, and we as JOINT HEIRS, abides in us, our words are not ours by the Father's that anoints us.
The wages if UNBELIEF is DEATH.
The GIFT of BELIEF is IMMORTAL LIFE.
1 Timothy 6:16 .... Christ ONLY hath IMMORTAL LIFE......
The earth is full of violent men and wars of all kind,wars of demons,in all the continents,they are something like fallen angels. But what does the Word of God say?What did my Lord JESUS say? Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth- Matthew 5:5.But how?
GOD the Father-the Word,the Word is GOD- said by the prophet Hoseas(8th-century BCE-Hosea or Oshea means salvation,he is called also Joshua in the holy Scriptures): GOD said by Hosea: But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah,and will save them by the Lord their GOD,and will not save them by bow,nor by sword,nor by battle,by horses,nor by horsemen- Hosea 1:7.
GOD is the Truth. Jeremiah 10:10: But the Lord is the true GOD,He is the living GOD,and an everlasting King:at His WRATH the earth shall tremble,and the nations shall not be able to abide His INDIGNATGION.-As it is written in Romans 2:5-16-Check it.
The Day of the Lord
The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our LORD and of His Christ and He shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 11:v.15.The Word is GOD,the Word is self-executing according was preestablished and revealed.
So,there shall be a spiritual BATTLE against this devilish/satanic world ruled by the Devil which deceives the whole world- Revelation 12:9. And how do the nations will react?Well, we know that the nations will rage,yeah,will rage- Revelation 11:18-,the kings of the earth set themselves,and the rulers take counsel together,against the Lord,and against His anointed,saying,"Let us break their bands asunder,and cast away their cords from us",but the LORD will laugh:the Lord shall have them in derision- Psalm 2.
The LORD said: Joel 2:1-3
1Blow ye the trumpet in Zion,and sound an alarm in my holy mountain:let all the inhabitants of the land tremble:for the Day of the Lord cometh,for it is nigh at hand;(That is this 7th and last Day,the LORD's Day,or seventh and last millennium).
There shall be War against three unclean Spirits like frogs-Rev.16:13-15
The Israel that God has in view is spiritual Israel consisting of all those who are born from above by the Spirit of the living God and justified by the faith of Christ.
We read in Galatians 6:14-16
14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
The Israel of God consist of all those who are in Christ Jesus, regardless of whatever political nation they may come from. We read in Romans 2:28-29
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
To be a Jew inwardly, and to be circumcised in the heart, means to have one's sins cut off by virtue of the atoning work of the Lord Jesus Christ, who gave his life that men might be set free from bondage and slavery to sin. It has nothing to do with whatever nation one comes from.
Cont in Part 3
Romans 2:22 - Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
You who says a man should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You that abhorrest idols, and the Jews abhorred idols.
The text is Deuteronomy 7:25-26 which told them that they were not to have idols, and they were not to enter into the temple of pagans who worship idols. The word abhor means to be nauseated. You are sick at the thought of idols.
Do you commit sacrilege? The word sacrilege means to rob the idols. What they would do was they'd go into the temples, and they would say "You guys are pagans, and you have idol worshipping going on."
So, they would tear the temple down and destroy it. And they would take the idols home and melt them down and make it part of their possessions. Do idols make you sick? And yet you rob them? You take them home with you?
Romans 3:2 - Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
He says much in every way: chiefly, because unto them were committed the oracles of God. The word oracles is a diminutive word of the word "word," the different principles of laws of God. They're privileged and they were given the law of God. That's a very privileged person.
Romans 3:4 - God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
God forbid: Literally in the Greek it says, "May it not happen."
Romans 3:14 - Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
The word cursing doesn't mean to swear. It means to wish destruction on people.
Romans 2:6 - Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
The word render is the Greek word for paycheck. Everybody is going to get paid for what they did. We understand the word deeds as activity. This is not individual things that we have done, but everyone will have to answer for the activity that has gone on in their life over their entire life.
Has it been the activity of Christ, or has it been the activity of the world? Everyone will have to answer how they spent their life.
Romans 2:7 - To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing do seek for glory and honour and immortality, to them will be given eternal life:
Notice patient continuance. Jesus said in Matthew Chapter 24 Verse 13 "He that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." That's not a requirement. That is a characteristic. Everybody who's saved will make it to the end because they have the Holy Spirit. It is a characteristic of a person who is saved.
It says to the patient continuance in well doing. The word well is the word for good that is Spiritual good. It is the word AGATHOS. They continually spent their time in the good of the Lord, the things of Christ. To them they will be given eternal life.
Romans 2:20 - An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
The word form means outline. You don't have the substance. You just have the form.
Romans 1:31 - Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Without understanding. The Greek word means spiritual understanding. They have no spiritual understanding anymore.
Romans 1:32 - Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Not only do they do the same things while they know judgment is coming, as far as death, but they have pleasure in them that do them. The word pleasure in the Greek means to applaud. They cheer on the other people who are doing the same thing!
Romans 2:2 - But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
There are four principles given in Chapter 2 Verses 2 through 16 that start with the word KATA in the Greek. KATA is a preposition, and it means according to. God judges according to the truth. We see in Romans 2:11 that God is no respecter of persons. He doesn't look at somebody and say "Oh, you're Jewishno problem! Oh, you're a Gentileget out of here!" God judges according to the facts with every single person no matter who they are.
Romans 2:5 - But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
But after the hardness and your impenitent heart, and the word hardness is where we get our word callousness from. You know how when you go out and work in the yard, and you haven't done it in a long time, you get blisters. But after you been out there a while, you build up callouses because it continues to rub one time after another and after another until it builds up a resistance to it.
Some people are like that spiritually. God's Spirit continues to minister to them, and they keep rejecting it and they keep suppressing the truth to where their heart becomes calloused against the Lord.
The first Adam, his disobedience brought sin and death into the world, Romans 5:12-19. The last Adam by obedience to God brought forgiveness and life, the resurrection from the dead, 1 Corinthians 15:21-22.
Adam and Eve were naked and were not ashamed, their hearts were uncorrupted and free from sin. After they ate the forbidden fruit their eyes were opened, their consciences were opened to the knowledge of good and evil, and sin replaced the purity they had. They had a sense of fear and disgrace due to their disobedience.
The shame they now felt was due to the sinful nature that entered them and now they no longer perfectly perceived things, their view of their nakedness should be covered. Nakedness was not a sin, but a fallen perception of nakedness brought shame and sorrow they now felt.
As God covered Adam and Eve with coats of skins to cover their shame/nakedness. Our nakedness of shame can be covered with the garment Isaiah 61:10 given by Jesus. We in Jesus shall not be found naked, but clothed, with the garment of Christ's righteousness, our sins covered and cleansed by the blood of Jesus that makes it spotless and white as long as we continue in faith and overcome.
Concerning those that do not die in the Lord, that do not watch, and keep their garments will walk naked, their sins will be open to being seen, Revelation 16:15 1 Timothy 4:1-2 Revelation 20:15.
Every human being, whether they're saved or unsaved, and regardless of their culture, ethnicity, or background, has a conscience, Romans 2:14-15. Inside this conscience is the battle between the flesh and the Spirit Romans 9:1 we can repent and be covered, if not we will be naked and found guilty. We cannot hide what is in our conscience, it records every good and evil we have ever done or thought. I feel this is where we are naked or clothed. Romans 4:6-8 2 Corinthians 1:12 1 Timothy 1:19 Hebrews 9:9 Hebrews 13:18 1 Peter 3:21.
God bless,
RLW
I would say that God is very fair, for He is a righteous and just God. It is the world that is not fair. It is humanity itself that's not fair.
Ezekiel 18:25, "Yet you say, "The way of the Lord is not fair." Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not my way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair?"
There were those in the house of Israel who were questioning the fairness of God. God's response was that His ways are completely fair, and that they were the ones who were unfair.
Leviticus 19:15 would show how God values fairness. It says, "Do not pervert justice; do not show favoritism to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly."
The very nature of God is that He is fair and just. There are several places in the bible that show how fair God is. Here are just a few places in scripture that show the fairness of God: Matthew 20:16, Romans 2:11, 1 Peter 1:17.
Would you be able to share why you feel God does not put much value on fairness? Also, what is your take on the parable of the talents?
Blessings!
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in GOD, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Matthew 25:31-34 and 41&46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Get ready-> Acts 14:22
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the RIGHTEOUS into life ETERNAL.( Romans 2:7-11.Take a look)
Revelation 20:4
4-And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them( Revelation 11:16-17), and Judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of GOD, and which had not worshipped the Beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The most important thing is to be with Him, no matter where or in what place, the problem is to be cast into the fire of hell.--> Matthew 10:28-take a look.
GOD BLESS
(Sorry I missed deleting some of my later commentary in the last posting).
In the song "Leaving Eden" at least Brandon Heath's version gives a sobering reminder of man's decay and plight. God has as Ecclesiastes states put eternity in their hearts ( Ecclesiastes 3:11); one aspect of which is always looking back to Eden or finding something that pleases the five senses to give the illusion that we can once again retreat to our own utopia.
One look at our bodies in the mirror after a few decades reminds us of reality. The destruction of the outer shell made from the dust of the earth is the fate of all of us due to what is known as the 2nd law of thermodynamics where all things in the universe at present are in a state of decay. The soul of unregenerate man has nothing to hold onto but memories; which become more and more corrupted and delusional as our mind deteriorates and sin hardens men's hearts. The conscience becomes more and more seared and eventually sin has its full result leading to death; which is spiritual death once the body dies. In reality one is dead spiritually even when living on this earth without Christ. (read Romans 6).
The good news is that before we know the law we are innocent ( Romans 7:9). This would appear to be another verse showing how those before a certain age of accountability have a sin nature but don't understand enough to deliberately sin against God.
We shudder to think of events such as a 5 year old getting hold of a gun and killing a parent or sibling although it does happen. Surely they wouldn't be convicted for murder. I have said this before; that it isn't one's fault that they are born this way; but it is if they are old enough to decide to live it out and remain that way as man has a conscience at least before totally seared ( Romans 2:15). See also 1 Timothy 4:2. In my next posting I am going to discuss man's vs. God's understanding of good and evil.
As S Spencer said we may not know for sure.
We all have inside us, a sinful nature from the first Adam, we also have a conscience, the knowledge of good and evil, and the knowledge of God. We first see this when Adam and Eve hid themselves because they were naked. We see some go so far into the darkness that their conscience can be seared, the conscience no longer tells them good from evil, 1 Timothy 4:2. There is a point where God turns them over to a reprobate mind, Romans 1:28-32.
I believe there will be those who enter eternity who have never heard the gospel, and those who lived before Jesus first came because we have a loving and just God.
Romans 2:11-16 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
My understanding is this will happen at the great white throne judgment, Revelation 20:11-15, in this it says, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire". If some were not found in the Book of Life means some were found in it. I know many may not agree but if we consider verses like Daniel 12:2 Matthew 25:31-46 John 5:28-29 to me these also point to this white throne judgment.
I am sure our loving and just God communicates with those who have not had a chance to read or hear Scripture, I believe the blood of Christ will cover them as well.
God bless,
RLW
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Here's the message for today, and for days ahead, day by day, and henceforward, until the END of all things, and END this world as a whole.
Genesis 19:13 reveals the voice sounded in Sodom: We will destroy this place,... but now, even now, from now on, the same voice will destroy the current world of Devil as a whole, as was prophesied, since ancient time. The same Word, the Word of GOD, GOD Himself, must sound, self-executing it. Heavens and earth shall PASS AWAY, but my Words shall not pass away, says my Lord, so
Get ready
There shall be wrath against the wicked- Romans 2:8-9 combined with Revelation 11:18, among many biblical references- see, only Judgment and Justice will support you. Righteousness and Judgment are the foundation of GOD's Throne.
Get read
Question. In Romans 8:28-29 says, "28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.29For whom he did FOREKNOW, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.". What does that "foreknow" stand for? God foreknew what?
Another question. 1 Timothy 2:4, "Who(God) will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.". If God wants ALL people to be saved, why does He choose some specific people for salvation, and not all?
Third and final question. Romans 2:6-10, "6Who(God) will render to every man according to his deeds:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Here it says that God will save or judge people according to their deeds. But why is this since salvation is granted by faith and not works? Doesn't those seem to be in contrast to one other? What are your thoughts on those?
Romans 2:14-16 and 12 and 5-11
14For when the Gentiles, which HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, HAVING NOT THE LAW, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16In the Day (this Day arrived, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium) when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ (the Judgment Seat of Christ) according to my gospel.
Get ready
12For as many as have sinned WITHOUT LAW(the Gentiles)shall also PERISH WITHOUT LAW:and as many as have sinned in the LAW shall be JUDGED by the LAW;
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself WRATH against the Day of WRATH and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;(This Day arrived)
6 Who will render to EVERY MAN according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the Truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION AND WRATH,
(What is written in the verses 7 and 8 above will be LITERALLY fulfilled from now on. The Word is GOD, GOD HIMSELF, self-executing,understand?)
9TRIBULATION and ANGUISH, upon EVERY SOUL of man that doeth evil,of the JEW first,and also of the GENTILE;
( Isaiah 26:20-21->20 Come,my people,enter thou into thy chambers,and shut thy doors about thee:HIDE THYSELF as it were for a little moment(the last week-week 70th- Daniel 9:27),until the INDIGNATION be overpast. 21 For,behold, the LORD cometh out of His place to PUNISH the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity( Matthew 24:10-13): the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain)
10But glory,honour,and peace,to every man that worketh good,to the JEW first,and also to the GENTILE;
11For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
Get ready
c. just considering the two passages you shared about "obeying the commandments":
Romans 2:12,13 which needs to be considered in its entirety Romans 2:12-16. Verse 12: Paul refers to those without the Law (i.e. Gentiles) will perish, just as those of Israel (in the Law), who sin will perish. Verse 13: only the doers of the Law (i.e. those given the Law) will be justified (but none have kept the Law perfectly leading to justification). Verses 14,15: Paul confirms that the Gentiles never received the Law, but by nature/conscience sake demonstrate the working of the Law within them. And so Gentiles construct their own law to suit their lives/consciences, yet without God's Law being their motivation & yardstick.
So these verses don't tell me that Christians come under the Law to obey them, rather they speak of Gentiles who have not received the Law, avoid God's Work of appealing to their (some of their) hearts, & ultimately refusing to hear & obey the Gospel that can deliver them from the agony & weight of their sin. These, along with Israel who do not keep God's Laws perfectly (as none can anyway), will perish, without the One Who came to fulfil the Law & redeem them by being their substitute for sin's punishment.
Not a problem Momsage. I'm more than happy to converse with anyone who wishes to do so, though I was careful to not overstep the bounds you had once set to your communicants.
I understand that you're referencing only the 10 Commandments as the Law given, & as I stated, to Israel only. So your questions:
a. when we refer to Gentiles, we can think of all those outside of God's special called-out people; those of old-time who never even heard of such a Law & were a law unto themselves, and now to us now, who have heard of the Law, but are brought under subjection to governments of men. So, what standards do the Gentiles follow? Those of old times, Romans 2:14 applies, "...the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves", but the 'working of the law is upon their hearts, excusing or accusing them'. Those under civil government are subject to the 'laws of the land' regardless of how well govts adhere to Divine Law or not. Many gentiles today, as those of yesteryear, have no idea of those laws given to Israel, but they do know that civil law bares its ruthless arm against them.
b. the "imputed laws that Jesus expects us (Christians?) to obey", would be everything that we need to know & obey according to the dictates of the Holy Spirit within us. And these 'laws' I think you would agree, go far far beyond the abridged Decalogue. E.g. you won't find the sin of Pride in the Decalogue, yet as Christians we immediately are given conviction & the need for repentance when pride surfaces in our thoughts or speech. Yet, we get a problem: a conviction to one may not always be a conviction to another believer; e.g. a white lie, wearing immodest clothing, using slightly flowery language, etc. Each one of us has to stand before God for our lives, knowing that not all of us have gained the same spiritual understanding/maturity to know & act upon deviations from righteous living.
When I refer to the law I am only referencing the 10 commandments. It's my sense that you are saying that the law was purely for the Jews only, does that includes the 10 commandments? if you are saying that the 10 commands were only for the Jews then I do have some questions:
A) What standard do the gentiles follow in order to live righteous lives for God if not the commandments?
B) What are the imputed laws that Jesus expects us to obey?
C) There are so many verses in the new testament that deal with obeying the commandments, like the two below. What do you believe they are telling us?
Romans 2:12-13
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous.
James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. God Bless :0
21 For then shall be great TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time(this current time), no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (The theory of being caught(pre-trib) before this event of "days shall be shortened" is wrong, it's a nonsense).
Isaiah 26:20-21
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment (seven years), until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
Romans 2:6-11
6 GOD will render to every MAN according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
Revelation 11:15 and 18
15 ... The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.
18 And the nations were(will be)angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged( Daniel 12:2. Take a look), and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should destroy them which destroy the earth.
Get ready
The Pharisees; who derided Christ throughout His public ministry had this to say shortly before the crucifixion. Jesus shut them out; as well as remaining silent soon after during Pilate's interrogation. Self exaltation and justification wasn't necessary for Christ didn't seek to be served but to serve and give His life for a ransom for many. ( Mark 10:45) The fact is; the Pharisees and religious leaders should have known who He was; and therefore were operating in deliberate blindness; uniquely qualifying them to commit the unpardonable sin. (See Matthew 12:24).
Part of the concept of the verse on "casting pearls before swine" ( Matt. 7:6) relates to this. Jesus hid meanings of the Parables to others who were deliberately spiritually blind (see Matthew 13:34; and Matthew 13:15; Isaiah 42:19-20). John 9:39-41 shows the end of an entire chapter related to a blind man's healing; where Jesus explains how men are made blind to the truth; but the Pharisees after asking if that was the intention of what Jesus said were still left with the judgment for themselves because they could see and were responsible for their sin.
These are sobering reminders that man is not justified in any righteousness of their own and estranged from God from the womb ( Psalm 58:3); yet has a conscience given by God where men are judged more harshly that know the law ( Romans 2:15).
Jesus warned that judgment would be worse for those cities that rejected Him than for Sodom and Gomorrah ( Matthew 10:15).
This attitude led to the unpardonable sin; blasphemy of the Holy Spirit where Beelzebub was attributed to Christ's healing rather than God ( Matthew 12:22). The issue of forgiveness of sins was truly where the problem was; since the miracles were manifold.
Nonetheless; Jesus wouldn't use His power to save Himself on the cross or when unbelief was present (see Matthew 13:58).
(NIV); but says tribulation and anguish in the KJV. There is another verse stating that judgment begins at the house of God. ( 1 Peter 4:17).
Just as not all Israel is Israel ( Romans 9:6); not all the "professing" church is the possessing church; that is possessing the Holy Spirit and true salvation. Jesus made that perfectly clear to those who thought because they were the physical descendants of Abraham that gave them some sort of benefit were sadly mistaken ( John 8:39-44). Those who had seen Christ; knew the prophecies about the Messiah and yet rejected Him would in fact be worse off than Sodom and Gomorrah in their punishment. ( Matt. 11:21-24). We see similar warnings for those who have knowledge of the truth and become reprobate; in that it would be better not to have known it in the first place ( 2 Peter 2:21).
Testing ourselves to see if we are in the faith is sadly lacking today among professing believers; or we would see a reality check in the fruits of many lives. ( 2 Corinthians 13:5). We can glibly see this example as a carnal bunch of people and think that being steeped in our own religious training or theology that we are automatically exempt from this test. I have said before that there are dangers in any extreme that is lacking the balancing attribute; such as with loving people and warning them of judgment to come ( John 16:8). We see in the Ephesian church everything being done properly but their first love somehow becoming distant in their hearts. Look at 1 Corinthians 13:6; love rejoices in the truth. The basic fact that man's heart is desperately wicked ( Jeremiah 17:9) and that our sin makes us enemies of God ( James 4:4) means that there is a wall between opposing parties and yes God is angry with the wicked (i.e. us) every day. ( Psalm 7:11). Having our heads in the sand doesn't help anyone.
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the Day of WRATH and revelation of the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT of GOD;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION and WRATH,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew FIRST, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew FIRST, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD
12 For as many as have sinned WITHOUT Law(the Gentiles)shall also perish without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be Judged by the Law;
13 (For not the hearers of the Law are just before GOD, but the doers of the Law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the Law, do by nature the things contained in the Law, these, having not the Law, are a Law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the Law written in their hearts(Hallelujah!!), their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another-)
16 In the Day when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. (The Day arrived-Woe of the inhabiters of the Earth)
The Word is GOD, self-executing
Armageddon; and the ultimate end of Satan at the end of the Millennial reign of Christ is the ultimate conclusion of God's plan in using the enemy of our soul to purge the world of rebels and to end the power of death completely with a new heaven and earth (see 1 Cor. 15:26; Revelation 21 and 22).
Eternal punishment fits the crime so we can understand as wicked as things have been throughout human history it has stored up wrath for Satan as well as the unregenerate ( Romans 2:5 and subsequent verses in that chapter). The philosophy of "do as thou wilt" that is prominent among self proclaimed Satanists is contrasted with a sacrificial love that only Christ can offer. Everything seems backwards but the Lord has the master plan no matter how clever men and their devices are to destroy Christ (see Psalm 5:10; and read Psalm 2). Unregenerate man simply cannot understand how being a servant or slave of Christ brings men to freedom and how the opposite appeals to the flesh leave one in bondage in the end. They think we can somehow go back to Eden (as seen in the humanistic music of the 60's); but we see the result of this "free love" in the 70's and beyond with the rapid decay of traditional families in regard to sustainability of marriages and the removal of God's design for a family and harmonious home life. Whether Satan himself ever realized how wicked he would become is debateable; it would appear that Antichrist himself and or other rulers may not have realized this in verses such as Isaiah 10:7. The enemy always wants to sugarcoat the extreme jeopardy of man remaining in a sinful state by distracting him with grand delusions that lead nowhere but to destruction.
We see in Psalm 23:5 a verse on eating in the presence of enemies which indeed we will do during the Millennium when some inevitably will rebel at the end and insanely under Satan attempt one final time to destroy God and His people leading to failure.
My opinion about Israel.
God chose Israel for a unique purpose. He wanted, and so He created a nation through Abraham, in order to preserve through them the faith to the true God until the Savior appears on earth. At that point their mission as a nation ended and the church took in charge. In the church all nations and people all over the world are included, including Hebrews, that little remnant that accepted and still accepting Christ. The purpose of the church is very different from that of Israel's. We have to bring the gospel of salvation to all people all over the world, that was not what Israel was expected to do, it wasn't their mission. So who is God's chosen people? Both, for different reasons. Israel for bringing the Savior to the world and the church for bringing Him all over the world. But we must know that Israel 's mission has ended 2th years ago and it is now the church that has a mission. If Israel had accepted Christ they would have been the most honourable and important nation in the church, but they didn't and they have been cut off the olive tree. But God preserves them for a reason. Because He knows that under the pressure of antichrist they will turn to Him that they crucified and so they will be saved at the end. But we must know that they are not saved now (neither for the past 2 th years) and if they end their lives in sin they will not go to Heaven. I don't know how God is going to judge them, according to their faith or according to their works/conscience? ( Romans 2:11-26). But it is going to be really tough for them in the Judgement for as long as they are not receiving Christ as their Savior.
Ephesians 2:3-14, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:Having predestinated us unto the adoption .."
Greetings in Christ JESUS
You have just said in prior post that you have never met one believer that has not sinned in some way as a believer. Here's the great problem of those which justifies themselves as keepers of the Sabbath day according to the letter of the Law, for as said James in his universal epistle- James 2:10- , "whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all". What more does the Word of GOD say? Romans 2:12 ->... as many as have sinned in the Law shall be Judged by the Law, therefore, he who sins in the Law becomes guilty of all, then by the Law he will be condemned for sure. Galatians 3:11 - ...no man is justified by the Law in the sight of GOD it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; ye are fallen from grace.(are wretchad)
Galatians 3:8-10
8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that GOD would justify the Gentiles through faith(not by the Law), preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the Law to do them.
Romans 7:6 - But now we are delivered from the Law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Hebrews 4:
12 For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom WE MUST RENDER AN ACCOUNT.
Revelation 22
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. ( Romans 2:12 - As many as have sinned without Law(the Gentiles) shall also PERISH without Law: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the Jews) shall be Judged by the Law;)
15 Without are dogs(dogs? Isaiah 56:10-11.Take a look), and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
But the fearful(the COWARDS), and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
The Word is GOD, self-executing, self-executable, understand?
25But after that faith is come,we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26For ye are all the children of GOD by faith in Christ Jesus.
29And if ye be Christ's,then are ye Abraham's seed,and heirs according to the promise.
23 But before faith came,we were kept under the Law,shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
22 But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin,that the promise by faith of JESUS CHRIST might be given to them that believe.
ROMANS 2:6-12KJV
6 Who WILL RENDER to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,ETERNAL LIFE:
8 But unto them that are contentious,and do not obey the truth,but obey unrighteousness,INDIGNATION AND WRATH,
9 TRIBULATION and ANGUISH,upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the JEW,and also of the GENTILE;
10 But glory,honour,and peace,to every man that worketh good,to the JEW first,and also to the GENTILE:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.
12 For as many as have sinned without Law(the GENTILES)shall also PERISH without Law:and as many as have sinned in the Law(the JEWS)shall be JUDGED by the Law;
By the way,we are now living LITERALLY in the period of SORROWS as my Lord JESUS said- Matthew 24:3-8- but it is a short period of events listed by JESUS, the worst comes soon when the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stands in the holy place( Matthew 24:21-25KJV -> 21 Then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time(current time), no, nor ever shall be.
22 EXCEPT those days(current days)be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake these days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there;(as is written in John 5:43-47) BELIEVE IT NOT.
25 Behold,I have told you before.
Get ready
Word of God through Paul: "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain." 1 Corinthians 9:24 KJV
Man's doctrine: "Don't run, because you already have the prize. It's bad to put effort into following God, because my pastor says that's legalism and obeying God's law is bad and pleasing God is bad."
James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."
Man's doctrine: "nah, ignore that verse, cause I'm told all good works are 'bad'. Bad works are ok though since you're already forgiven."
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
Man's doctrine: "just ignore this verse, but lets cherry pick something else and focus on that instead."
Matthew 24:13 "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."
Man's doctrine: "Nope, you're already saved right now, not later. So you don't have to endure anything or do anything whatsoever. Just do whatever feels good then rationalize it by saying that's the spirit doing it, not your sinful flesh."
Hebrews 10:36 "For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise."
Man's doctrine: "Nah, ignore that verse too. You already have the promise and prize. You don't need to do anything."
"But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" Romans 2:10 KJV
Man's doctrine: "No, just ignore. Good is bad, but bad is fine, because salvation."
Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
Man's doctrine: "Nope"
Are both genuinely following Jesus?
Thank you David0921 for your detailed comments & for taking the time to do so. I'll address each part of your five parts.
Part 1: Fully agree about mankind's total spiritual depravity before God, for no sinner can ever find righteousness from within himself that will avert the Wrath of God. To the "Law of God" you referred to, I'll take it as 'the holy standards that God requires of man to which man will always fail God'; rather than the giving of the Law (God's Standards to Israel), to which the Gentile had no knowledge of, aside from the dictates of his conscience ( Romans 2:14,15).
Part 2: Again, fully agree that the sinner is totally incapable or desirous to attain God's Holy Standard for righteousness and God is completely justified in the eternal condemnation of the sinner.
Part 3: Some issues here. a. "What does it mean to be "justified"? It means that we stand perfectly just before the Law of God because we have paid the full penalty required by the Law of God for each and every one of our dirty rotten sins." Did you mean, 'our justification before God means that we can stand guiltless because 'we'(?) or is is 'Christ' that paid our full penalty?'
b. I also understand that Galatians 2:16 refers to those who were no longer under the Law, but would use the Law as well as Grace given through Christ's death, to find their righteousness & justification. This was the 'Works of the Law' referred to, when any of it was added to the faith found in Christ alone - for the Law never gave righteousness & acceptance before God. "for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Unless the Elect of God today is of Jewish descent & was once under the Law, this verse has no application to the Gentile elected of God who was never under the Law & could never & should never use that Law to add to his faith.
This is my favorite scripture because, you can dig into this scripture really deeply! James 1:19-20 is literally the main learning point of the old saying "God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason", we should should use our ears to listen and learn and when we gain wisdom through this we can then use that wisdom to teach through our mouths; Cross References= Proverbs 17:27 and Proverbs 14:29! James 1:21-24 goes to show that we should lay aside all disobedience and defiance, read the word and live it; Romans 2:13, Jeremiah 44:16, and 1 Thessalonians 1:5!
The word says that scripture has to be understood by applying other scriptures to it.
The NEW COVENANT, the gospel, was preached to THEM as well as unto US.
John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship, salvation is of the Jews.
Romans 2:29 For he is a JEW, which is one inwardly, and circumcision is in the heart, IN THE SPIRIT .....
Romans 8:2 For the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST, has made us free from the LAW of sin and DEATH ...
This same gospel was preached to them as well as us.
Psalms 119:1 Blessed are the UNDEFILED in the way ( John 14:6) who WALK in the LAW OF the LORD ( Romans 8:2).
Ezekiel 36:27 I will put my Spirit in you and cause you to WALK in my STATUTES, and keep my judgements and DO THEM.
Psalms 119:3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in HIS WAYS.
Psalms 119:5 Oh that my ways were directed to keep thy STATUTES!
The Spirit CAUSES us TO DO his will, the words that come out of our mouth, are his words, the works of our hands, are his works.
Isaiah 48:18 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this, I have not spoken in secret from the beginning, from the time that it was, there am I, and HIS SPIRIT HAS SENT ME ( Romans 8:2).
John 14:24 ...and the word ye hear are not mine, but the Father's which sent me ....
Mark 10:8 And they TWAIN shall be ONE FLESH: so they are no more TWAIN, but ONE FLESH ...
The same SPIRIT that sent Christ and raised him up, and we as JOINT HEIRS, abides in us, our words are not ours by the Father's that anoints us.
The wages if UNBELIEF is DEATH.
The GIFT of BELIEF is IMMORTAL LIFE.
1 Timothy 6:16 .... Christ ONLY hath IMMORTAL LIFE......
God BLESS YOU!
GOD the Father-the Word,the Word is GOD- said by the prophet Hoseas(8th-century BCE-Hosea or Oshea means salvation,he is called also Joshua in the holy Scriptures): GOD said by Hosea: But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah,and will save them by the Lord their GOD,and will not save them by bow,nor by sword,nor by battle,by horses,nor by horsemen- Hosea 1:7.
GOD is the Truth. Jeremiah 10:10: But the Lord is the true GOD,He is the living GOD,and an everlasting King:at His WRATH the earth shall tremble,and the nations shall not be able to abide His INDIGNATGION.-As it is written in Romans 2:5-16-Check it.
The Day of the Lord
The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our LORD and of His Christ and He shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 11:v.15.The Word is GOD,the Word is self-executing according was preestablished and revealed.
So,there shall be a spiritual BATTLE against this devilish/satanic world ruled by the Devil which deceives the whole world- Revelation 12:9. And how do the nations will react?Well, we know that the nations will rage,yeah,will rage- Revelation 11:18-,the kings of the earth set themselves,and the rulers take counsel together,against the Lord,and against His anointed,saying,"Let us break their bands asunder,and cast away their cords from us",but the LORD will laugh:the Lord shall have them in derision- Psalm 2.
The LORD said: Joel 2:1-3
1Blow ye the trumpet in Zion,and sound an alarm in my holy mountain:let all the inhabitants of the land tremble:for the Day of the Lord cometh,for it is nigh at hand;(That is this 7th and last Day,the LORD's Day,or seventh and last millennium).
There shall be War against three unclean Spirits like frogs-Rev.16:13-15
Get ready