Alex you err, the creation never can become the Creator."For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.1Tim2:5&6 "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." Isaiah45:22. But you Alex say there is another, and another, and another, and another, etc.. Almighty God has no beginning and no end, the Alpha and Omega, and has no equal outside of himself, otherwise, that is not God.
Thank You for sharing the word, could you please pray for my Daughter Bobbie Jo something has came upon her threating her body Drs. are running all kinds if tests ,she is a wife and mother she needs a touch from GOD. Thank You. Joe
Comments by Alex about Psalms 8 But Jesus spoke many times about the Children of the Kingdom, thats what Psalms 8 is about,but it was hid,simply b/c its the mystery of the new birth that humanity should give birth to a baby Christ the son of man.Thats y the sower of that good seed will go forth to sow his precious seed in our hearts, initiating a birth of Christ in us which is the H.G. which is the Israel of God. The only thing that can destroy our enemy is a new innerman, a new spirit and a new heart which is a baby Christ that is gonna be born in humanity via his seed the WORDS . Thats what the babes and the suckling are baby spirits, baby Christs that are born by his seed the WORD in US . The H.G. HAS TO BE BORN IN US BY HIS SEED THE WORD. The multiplication of Isaac resulted in natural Israel, But the MULTIPLICATION of Christ via his seed WORD is the Israel of God. When he breath on them that was his seed his Word, He was propagating very GOD with his seed the word/his breath. Thats y he said b/c i have spoken these WORD sorrows have filled your hearts IMPLING A SPRITUAL PREGNANCY, the babes and the sucklings a baby CHRIST the H.G.MY LIL CHILDREN OF WHOM I TRAVAIL IN BIRTH TILL CHRIST IS FORMED IN YOU thats the babes and sucklings that are gonna be born in US OUR NEW BIRTH. No this has not happened just yet,It cannot happen till the book is opened the WORDS of the book are the seeds of the sower th new covenant A BIRTHING COVENANT thats y the woman goes into travail which is humanity.God so loved the world etc.The babes and sucklings are baby GODS the H.G PLURAL AS THE STARS OF HEAVEN THAT WAS THE GREAT PROMISE.Rememeber God swore by himself when he made that promise thats y i'm so obsessed with the parable of the sower and his seed etc and its gonna happen soon. Jesus was thinking about this when he was on the cross he was calling for Elijah to come and turn the HEARTS OF THE FATHERS TO THE children th babes and sucklings His children th babes and sucklings .gb
Sunday, by the gracing of the Holy Spirit, let us see if the Spirit can clarify the words in Psalms 8:3-6. First let us clarify whose words are spoken by the psalmist. II Samuel 23:1-2 Now these be the last words of David, David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said, (vs) 2 The spirit of the Lord (God) spake by me (David), and his (Gods) word was in my (Davids) tongue. God is speaking the words in the psalms not David. Psalms 8:3-6 When I (Jesus) consider thy (Gods) heavens (literal and symbolic of us), the work of thy (Gods) fingers, the moon (literal and symbolic of Jesus) and the stars (literal and symbolic of angels), which thou (God) hast ordained; (vs) 4 What is man (us) that thou (God) are mindful of him (us)? and the son of man (Jesus) that thou (God) visitest him (Jesus)? For thou (God) hast made him (Jesus in the flesh) a little lower than the angles (messengers of Spirit), and (God) has crowned him (Jesus) with glory and honour. Thou (God) madest him (Jesus) to have dominion over the works of thy (Gods) hands; and thou (God) hast put all things under his (Jesus) feet. Jesus has dominion over all things not us. May the Spirit grace you with his words.
The Apostle Paul quoted this passage in 1 Corinthians 15:27. Paul quoted it in much the same way that the writer of Hebrews did in Hebrews 2:5-9, showing that this promise of dominion is now only incompletely fulfilled among men. Yet it will be ultimately fulfilled in Jesus, the ultimate Man, and will be one day also completely fulfilled in His resurrected followers. In light of all this, it is a great tragedy when a man is captured and held in bondage by the things of this world. We were born to have dominion over such material things, instead of being in bondage to them. O LORD, our Lord, how excellent is Your name in all the earth: When David thought about how vast a dominion God had given to man, it made him praise God all over again. That this humble creature - humble in light of the majesty of the universe, humble in light of its present standing under angelic beings - should be given such authority is a demonstration of both the excellence and the goodness of God.
Hello, if your question was genuine and if truly looking for others' input rather than a cute question that twists words then maybe I would have responded in greater detail, but my response already exposed the logical fallacy of the question. Take care.
Madalyn, "As I understand it, we will not know each other." The rich man in hades recognized Abraham, whom he probably never met and Lazarus, who lived at his gate.
GENESIS 1:26. And God said, Let US make man in OUR faith image, after our likeness: and let THEM have dominion over .... creation. (Not other people of color)
God is Spirit (no color)
Holy Spirit (no color)
Jesus (Mary's color)
The 3 persons of the Godhead have WILLS. It was given to Adam and Eve. They could obey God's will; OR do what they did: disobey God's will (for them) which they did with Satans encouragement; deception.
In addition, satan has a will. He was a created Archangel; covering Cherub. His speeches start with I WILL. He's the evil that hurts people. He never does anything Good. He wills to crush Gods children.
He thought he had killed the Son of God. Imagine his grief when Jesus walked out of the grave.
Look up the scriptures to prove me right or in error.
"People are given freewill." Really? Free of what? Anyone claiming we have a free will is saying we are free of sin and not dead in trespasses and sin, before being saved, so who needs Christ?
Carlos, I realize that you didn't mean every part of the Creation account, but if allegory/metaphor principles are applied, one has to have good Scriptural proof that that is how it was intended to mean. And to the Scriptures you've given in the past on this aspect, I really can't make the connection.
Even the 7th Day, Rest of God. I've heard others talk about it, but again, where is the connection between God resting after all His Works & the period of time that we are in. Of course, Hebrews speaks about the "rest to the people of God", but this has nothing to do with the 7th day. Maybe, you could give me specific Scriptures to support that.
"Science tells us, with a high degree of certainty". Science, if it deals with laws or data that are observable & through experiment, is fine by me. But when a Scientist tells me the age of the Universe, or about the origin of its heavenly bodies, & yet (for many of them) are unable to tell me correctly where they have come from & to where their destination will be, I say, I would rather believe in the Bible & to what God has revealed to us (however, limited that revelation may be). If you feel that is unfair to the 'Scientists', the point I'm making is that their knowledge of the unknown is severely limited by their own calculations, surmises & research into other peoples' works. It may be that the Earth is such & such years old, & even their calculations may be better than mine (if I would dare attempt it), I would rather see them speak about what they know for fact rather than fill gullible minds with erroneous drivel.
So, if there are non-literal/allegorical aspects in the Creation account, where does allegory start & literal begin? Who decides between the two? If it's clearly seen in Scripture, then which Scripture, & if one who doesn't believe in allegorizing parts of Genesis, can he be suitably convinced after studying the given Scriptural proofs?
Chris, I'm not sure I'm getting my point across. I don't mean the entire Genesis account is allegorical, but that there is an element of allegory, metaphor and symbolism in it. Many of the passages we read in Scripture are like that. It doesn't devalue or make it less credible. However, with what we now know about history and science, it is imperative for Christians to reexamine the Creation story. The reliability of science on this is not questionable.
Example: Heb 3-4 clearly state we are still in the 7th Day Rest of God. If that is the case. God has not resumed His creative activity for 6,000 years. Consequently, the 7th Day is 6,000 yrs long. That means the 'Day' of Day 7, is not a 24 hour day.
We also know from history that cultures and languages developed much longer ago than 6,000 years, given the earliest writings, such as Gilgamesh and Sanskrit. If there are writings that old, the cultures and languages they came from must be older.
Science tells us, with a high degree of certainty, that the universe is over 13 Billion years in the making. And the earth is approximately 5 Billion years old.
In light of things like that, and what Genesis itself says, I conclude Day 1 was longer than 24 hrs. The same holds true for Day 2 and the rest. Adam and Eve were created on the 6th Day, but in that time, Adam named all the animals, etc. If we accept that God works within the framework of reality, we have to accept that when Genesis says God made trees grow from the ground, it took more than a couple of minutes for it to happen.
So, the story is valid because it conveys a message. But that message is delivered in a package that's not entirely literal. The issue of interpretation comes up because we insist on fitting a square literal peg, in the round hole of reality. It just doesn't fit. But your fears are obvious when you say you don't want God to blame you for accepting that not all of Genesis is hyper-literal. I don't blame you. I was taught the same.
Carlos, I realize that this subject is being addressed by Adam also, so I'll not duplicate too much.
To state, at the outset, I don't believe that the Genesis account is allegorical. If that were intended to be so by God, then we would be all over the place as to what is allegorical or not, are there metaphors also being used, etc. I would rather accept the account as factual & stand before God on that position, than see 'things' in the account that are supposed to be representative elsewhere or indeed untrue. So if one holds to this position (a factual one) & then says I also believe in Rev 13:1 that it speaks of a literal beast coming out of the sea, even though it clearly doesn't, then I would rather accept his belief than presuppose that some of the creation account is allegorical.
Whether it took time for vegetation to grown in Eden or was accomplished in an instant by the Word of God is only speculation. And "why it takes so long for God to rescue us from sin?" Well, we are in God's Plan & it no doubt includes 2 Pet 3:9 & Rom 5:6 (about Christ being sent at the appointed time in God's Plan). So, God doesn't need to do all things over a period of time - there is room for His instantaneous response, as I see the days of creation & entrance of sin into man & world. And using our venerable scientists timeline of the age of the universe (e.g. 13 billion yrs old), is anything but factual but based on guesswork: primarily by studying the oldest stars & measuring the rate of expansion of the universe. And what is the basis of their observations? Man's present & limited knowledge of the universe & through which all his determinations are made. I have little regard to such 'findings' where his studies & measurements are based on finite & undefined judgements. I think that we would be better served by them not making such non-provable predictions.
Finally, I won't even try to discuss the actuality of the two trees, pillars, etc. I think you know my position.
Hi Carlos, thanks for your response. Ok, since you retracted that you think all Christians are afraid I appreciate that. You added a bunch of questions about freewill. That's interesting that you seem unfamiliar with scriptural support for that or why you would think you don't have it. You can find verses by Google searching that. You ended by saying to not be afraid. I'm not afraid, are you? I'm not sure why you assume emotions of others. Take care.
1 John Chapter 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
There is only one door and that is Jesus, I do not care what anyone says they are a Jew and if they do not have Christ they are under the wrath of God eternally.
Adam, there are 2 parts to my response to Chris on creation. If you saw Page 1, I'll assume you saw Page 2. You bring up some worthy issues. Thanks for telling me about the reply button. I didn't mean to imply that all Christians are afraid. But we ought to interpret the Bible literally where it calls for it.
If all you got from my responses is that I think parts of the Bible are untrue, you missed the point. I don't believe any of the Bible is untrue. And yes, I am uncomfortable with a literal interpretation where it doesn't belong. But your troubled, accusatory response is what makes me think some Christians fear an honest examination of the Genesis Creation account, without preconceptions. Why would it upset you that I argue that not all the Genesis account is to be taken literally?
If there is in fact no symbolism in Gen 1-3, you shouldn't be troubled by it. You yourself say that only 61% of Christians polled think the Genesis account is literal. That means 39% don't. As we approach a study of Genesis we must Keep an open mind.
I don't know everything about creation, but it is clear that there are things that are unrealistic, if taken literally in the Bible. One such thing has to do with plucking your eye out. And when did God give you direct confirmation that you are the arbiter of Biblical Hermeneutics? I would encourage you and everyone else to examine Genesis 1-3 in light of what I wrote in my response to Chris.
You say, "God made Adam and Eve perfect + gave them freewill." Many people believe that because that is what they were taught to believe. But where does the Bible say we were created Perfect and with a Free Will? What exactly does it mean to have Free Will? Can a man have the ability to choose without having a Free Will? Do animals have Free Will? Can they choose to eat or not to eat? Have you ever told a dog not to do something and he does it anyway? Can you love without Free Will? Can you be obedient without it? Don't be afraid, Adam.
It was PROPHESY. It all happened as the Godhead Wrote it. Through Jesus's suffering He set the new Covenant in motion until the mystery be completed: until the fullness of the Gentiles.
Romans 11:11 ...have they stumbled that
they should fall? God forbid: but rather
through their fall...salvation is come
unto the Gentiles (WHY?) for to provoke
them (the JEWS) to jealousy.
For if the casting away from them be THE
RECONCILING of the WORLD...what shall be
the the RECEIVING of them be...but life
from the dead?
Verse 26: AND SO ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED
Verse 27: For this is MY COVENANT unto them (Israel) , WHEN I shall take away their sins.
Verse 28: As concerning the gospel (birth, life, death, resurrection of Jesus) They are enemies (now) FOR YOUR SAKES (us).
BUT as touching the election, they are BELOVED for the fathers sakes (plural) Deuteronomy 9:5.
They're OUT now, and we are IN. God did that all by Himself. Didn't need any of us to debate the soundness of His Decision. Why indeed should any of us Gentiles shed a tear for millions of Jews who were murdered?
Well, they were on the OUTS so it's ok?
Romans 11:8. According as it is written, God hath given them a spirit of slumber;
Eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear....unto THIS DAY.
Everyone is going to give an account for every idle word that has come out of the mouth.
Once more I will try: God is dealing with Israel. He doesn't need our help. We should be grateful, because us Gentiles are being blessed huge because God has Israel off in a corner wondering why so many Gentiles are in love with Jesus, and follow him around like a flock of sheep. That was a positive statement. They are jealous. They are OUT. We are IN.
Just so you know you have to click the Reply button to actually reply to someone and notify them, otherwise they may not see your post.
You mentioned: "The fact is that there is an element of allegory and metaphor in the Genesis creation account."
What are your examples?
I've noticed other comments from you and agree with many of your points and thought they were well thought out, but the one below I don't believe.
>Christians are afraid to admit that because they think it diminishes the account and credibility of the Bible as a whole."
Why assume if someone takes the Bible literally then they must be 'afraid'? Is this really true for all Christians? Have you prayed to God about this and did you hear any confirmation from him? It would seem like dangerous ground to pluck parts the Bible and claim they're untrue. What if the opposite was true that maybe you're the one uncomfortable with Genesis being literal so you claim that it isn't then try to discredit other Christians for believing it?
For me: (1) I'm a Christian, and (2) I believe the Genesis creation is literal and not a metaphor, and (3) I'm not afraid, but feel confident and have total trust in God's Word.
An ABC poll showed 61% most Christians believe Genesis creation is literal.
So, how can your statement be true? Should statements like this be posted publicly to other Christians to try to create distrust in the Bible? Does this come from God?
Page 1. Chris, don't take things to the extreme. First, how many days (24 hours) did it take God to create the universe and man? How long did God rest? How long was the 7th Day? How long did it take for the trees to grow in the Garden? See Gen 2:1-9. What did God do on the day after the 7th Day?
The fact is that there is an element of allegory and metaphor in the Genesis creation account. Christians are afraid to admit that because they think it diminishes the account and credibility of the Bible as a whole. But a realistic approach to Genesis 1-3 does no such thing. From Gen 2, for example, we see that it took time for vegetation to grow and cover the Garden. Adam could not have identified and named every animal in the world Gen 2:19-20. That is a stretch. Six days doesn't begin to explain the 13 Billion years old universe we live in. Careful examination of Genesis shows that God does things in an orderly and deliberate manner, in time. If God didn't work that way, why is it taking so long for God to rescue us from sin? Why not just say, 'let there be no sin' and poof, sin disappears?
Now, I covered the matter of the 2 Trees in the Garden before. When God expelled Adam from the Garden He set pillars of fire to guard the Tree of Life. Is that to be taken literally? And what happened? Did the fire run out? Where are those pillars? Clearly the imagery is metaphorical. From Revelation 22 and we know what the 2 Trees represented. They were not 2 physical Trees. The fruit was not a physical fruit. And eating the fruit was a metaphor for taking part in something they should not have been doing. Psalm 1:3. Read all of Ezek 31 to see a full picture of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. Who is that Tree? It is non other than the devil.
And who is the Tree of Life? None other than Christ
Yes, there is an element of symbolism, allegory and metaphor in Genesis 1-3. And the 2 Trees were representative of something other than trees. Continued in page 2.
Mishael on man39s Dominion over man on Psalms 8 - 4 years ago
People who race onward and do not carefully read each word on the creation of Adam and Eve, will miss out on the greater revelation.
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord formed (mould) man of the DUST of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Genesis 1:27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him: male and female. Genesis 2:22
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have DOMINION over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
GOD DID NOT give Adam dominion over OTHER men or women!
Just like everyone else that has lived prior and now, OUR COLOR came from the same dust.
Genesis 11:1-9 is the account of the Tower of Babel; which was for evil by Nimrod. God changed the language of the people from one to many. The Lord scattered them all over the earth. Nothing is said further about races or colors. It happened back in the dust God used. Adams name in original text means, RED. That doesn't mean Adam was Native American.
You have full cause to be at peace with the color your ancestors were. Who knows what color Moses was, but he married a woman from Midian, which was predominantly dark skinned. His sister Miriam made a protest about it and God afflicted her with leprosy for a while. Numbers chapter 12.
God hates racism of any kind.
Before God the creator, no one has ever had a right to persecute people of color. If they were reading the Bible rightly, they would know that; in their hearts.
Satan has used his WILL to enter in and pervert the truth. People bought into it and it's been this color versus that color ever since.
God is Spirit. The Holy Spirit is Spirit. Jesus is the Son of Man. (He has color)
Believe the Bible, pass it forward. I thank God we're not all the same color! :D
I think all you men are doing a great job of getting people to think about end time events! Also to pass it on to family and friends.
Jesus said for us to WATCH. Be looking for Him. Be ready. Be born again now. Lovingly witness to everyone you want " inside the Ark with you". Jesus IS the Ark. Every time someone came by & asked Noah what he was doing, he preached Salvation to them.
Only difference is that next time will be by Fire. We are supposed to preach these realities, that you know already.
The earth is readying. It's warming up. In Job you see that God has storehouses of hail stones. Every year we experience floods, huge forest fires, drought, wicked storms. If you watch the govt earthquake center, you will see places being rocked every day with size increased tremors. Especially in areas that are being fracked.
I'm praying that everyone is aware of these realities. There are people that think they can just "ride it out". Why not instead be ready to go with Jesus? Now.
1 Corinthians 12:31, 13:2, 14:1, 3, 5. I don't think it's useful to get bogged down in tongues again. Paul is saying that to PROPHESY (speak forth the Word of God) is more useful. The Holy Spirit watches over His Word.
You have a whole room in here with people dropping by to hear something from God. They have problems, they're frightened, they suspect that "this Bible stuff" may have some truth to it. These are Jesus's sheep and lambs! If you're not a shepherd, then you're a sheep. I remind myself often what Ezekiel was told in chapters 2 & 3. We are accountable for what we say or write. It's serious business. If you get unction to warn others...it is probably God. Habakkuk 2:2-3
I love the book of Genesis. You have to read it very slowly. Things in chapter 1 will be picked up again in 2 or 3, with additional information. Satan was a snake. Eve knew not to eat the fruit, but she wanted to have the knowledge. She was tempted with food.
So do you think the kingdom at hand lives with in us?
Gods kingdom is nigh? Is in ya? We rule and reign it? We are kings of our own right?
Thanks!
Blessings.
God is Spirit (no color)
Holy Spirit (no color)
Jesus (Mary's color)
The 3 persons of the Godhead have WILLS. It was given to Adam and Eve. They could obey God's will; OR do what they did: disobey God's will (for them) which they did with Satans encouragement; deception.
In addition, satan has a will. He was a created Archangel; covering Cherub. His speeches start with I WILL. He's the evil that hurts people. He never does anything Good. He wills to crush Gods children.
He thought he had killed the Son of God. Imagine his grief when Jesus walked out of the grave.
Look up the scriptures to prove me right or in error.
Even the 7th Day, Rest of God. I've heard others talk about it, but again, where is the connection between God resting after all His Works & the period of time that we are in. Of course, Hebrews speaks about the "rest to the people of God", but this has nothing to do with the 7th day. Maybe, you could give me specific Scriptures to support that.
"Science tells us, with a high degree of certainty". Science, if it deals with laws or data that are observable & through experiment, is fine by me. But when a Scientist tells me the age of the Universe, or about the origin of its heavenly bodies, & yet (for many of them) are unable to tell me correctly where they have come from & to where their destination will be, I say, I would rather believe in the Bible & to what God has revealed to us (however, limited that revelation may be). If you feel that is unfair to the 'Scientists', the point I'm making is that their knowledge of the unknown is severely limited by their own calculations, surmises & research into other peoples' works. It may be that the Earth is such & such years old, & even their calculations may be better than mine (if I would dare attempt it), I would rather see them speak about what they know for fact rather than fill gullible minds with erroneous drivel.
So, if there are non-literal/allegorical aspects in the Creation account, where does allegory start & literal begin? Who decides between the two? If it's clearly seen in Scripture, then which Scripture, & if one who doesn't believe in allegorizing parts of Genesis, can he be suitably convinced after studying the given Scriptural proofs?
Example: Heb 3-4 clearly state we are still in the 7th Day Rest of God. If that is the case. God has not resumed His creative activity for 6,000 years. Consequently, the 7th Day is 6,000 yrs long. That means the 'Day' of Day 7, is not a 24 hour day.
We also know from history that cultures and languages developed much longer ago than 6,000 years, given the earliest writings, such as Gilgamesh and Sanskrit. If there are writings that old, the cultures and languages they came from must be older.
Science tells us, with a high degree of certainty, that the universe is over 13 Billion years in the making. And the earth is approximately 5 Billion years old.
In light of things like that, and what Genesis itself says, I conclude Day 1 was longer than 24 hrs. The same holds true for Day 2 and the rest. Adam and Eve were created on the 6th Day, but in that time, Adam named all the animals, etc. If we accept that God works within the framework of reality, we have to accept that when Genesis says God made trees grow from the ground, it took more than a couple of minutes for it to happen.
So, the story is valid because it conveys a message. But that message is delivered in a package that's not entirely literal. The issue of interpretation comes up because we insist on fitting a square literal peg, in the round hole of reality. It just doesn't fit. But your fears are obvious when you say you don't want God to blame you for accepting that not all of Genesis is hyper-literal. I don't blame you. I was taught the same.
To state, at the outset, I don't believe that the Genesis account is allegorical. If that were intended to be so by God, then we would be all over the place as to what is allegorical or not, are there metaphors also being used, etc. I would rather accept the account as factual & stand before God on that position, than see 'things' in the account that are supposed to be representative elsewhere or indeed untrue. So if one holds to this position (a factual one) & then says I also believe in Rev 13:1 that it speaks of a literal beast coming out of the sea, even though it clearly doesn't, then I would rather accept his belief than presuppose that some of the creation account is allegorical.
Whether it took time for vegetation to grown in Eden or was accomplished in an instant by the Word of God is only speculation. And "why it takes so long for God to rescue us from sin?" Well, we are in God's Plan & it no doubt includes 2 Pet 3:9 & Rom 5:6 (about Christ being sent at the appointed time in God's Plan). So, God doesn't need to do all things over a period of time - there is room for His instantaneous response, as I see the days of creation & entrance of sin into man & world. And using our venerable scientists timeline of the age of the universe (e.g. 13 billion yrs old), is anything but factual but based on guesswork: primarily by studying the oldest stars & measuring the rate of expansion of the universe. And what is the basis of their observations? Man's present & limited knowledge of the universe & through which all his determinations are made. I have little regard to such 'findings' where his studies & measurements are based on finite & undefined judgements. I think that we would be better served by them not making such non-provable predictions.
Finally, I won't even try to discuss the actuality of the two trees, pillars, etc. I think you know my position.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
There is only one door and that is Jesus, I do not care what anyone says they are a Jew and if they do not have Christ they are under the wrath of God eternally.
If all you got from my responses is that I think parts of the Bible are untrue, you missed the point. I don't believe any of the Bible is untrue. And yes, I am uncomfortable with a literal interpretation where it doesn't belong. But your troubled, accusatory response is what makes me think some Christians fear an honest examination of the Genesis Creation account, without preconceptions. Why would it upset you that I argue that not all the Genesis account is to be taken literally?
If there is in fact no symbolism in Gen 1-3, you shouldn't be troubled by it. You yourself say that only 61% of Christians polled think the Genesis account is literal. That means 39% don't. As we approach a study of Genesis we must Keep an open mind.
I don't know everything about creation, but it is clear that there are things that are unrealistic, if taken literally in the Bible. One such thing has to do with plucking your eye out. And when did God give you direct confirmation that you are the arbiter of Biblical Hermeneutics? I would encourage you and everyone else to examine Genesis 1-3 in light of what I wrote in my response to Chris.
You say, "God made Adam and Eve perfect + gave them freewill." Many people believe that because that is what they were taught to believe. But where does the Bible say we were created Perfect and with a Free Will? What exactly does it mean to have Free Will? Can a man have the ability to choose without having a Free Will? Do animals have Free Will? Can they choose to eat or not to eat? Have you ever told a dog not to do something and he does it anyway? Can you love without Free Will? Can you be obedient without it? Don't be afraid, Adam.
It was PROPHESY. It all happened as the Godhead Wrote it. Through Jesus's suffering He set the new Covenant in motion until the mystery be completed: until the fullness of the Gentiles.
Romans 11:11 ...have they stumbled that
they should fall? God forbid: but rather
through their fall...salvation is come
unto the Gentiles (WHY?) for to provoke
them (the JEWS) to jealousy.
For if the casting away from them be THE
RECONCILING of the WORLD...what shall be
the the RECEIVING of them be...but life
from the dead?
Verse 26: AND SO ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED
Verse 27: For this is MY COVENANT unto them (Israel) , WHEN I shall take away their sins.
Verse 28: As concerning the gospel (birth, life, death, resurrection of Jesus) They are enemies (now) FOR YOUR SAKES (us).
BUT as touching the election, they are BELOVED for the fathers sakes (plural) Deuteronomy 9:5.
They're OUT now, and we are IN. God did that all by Himself. Didn't need any of us to debate the soundness of His Decision. Why indeed should any of us Gentiles shed a tear for millions of Jews who were murdered?
Well, they were on the OUTS so it's ok?
Romans 11:8. According as it is written, God hath given them a spirit of slumber;
Eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear....unto THIS DAY.
Everyone is going to give an account for every idle word that has come out of the mouth.
Once more I will try: God is dealing with Israel. He doesn't need our help. We should be grateful, because us Gentiles are being blessed huge because God has Israel off in a corner wondering why so many Gentiles are in love with Jesus, and follow him around like a flock of sheep. That was a positive statement. They are jealous. They are OUT. We are IN.
Soon, God is going to bring them in again.
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You mentioned: "The fact is that there is an element of allegory and metaphor in the Genesis creation account."
What are your examples?
I've noticed other comments from you and agree with many of your points and thought they were well thought out, but the one below I don't believe.
>Christians are afraid to admit that because they think it diminishes the account and credibility of the Bible as a whole."
Why assume if someone takes the Bible literally then they must be 'afraid'? Is this really true for all Christians? Have you prayed to God about this and did you hear any confirmation from him? It would seem like dangerous ground to pluck parts the Bible and claim they're untrue. What if the opposite was true that maybe you're the one uncomfortable with Genesis being literal so you claim that it isn't then try to discredit other Christians for believing it?
For me: (1) I'm a Christian, and (2) I believe the Genesis creation is literal and not a metaphor, and (3) I'm not afraid, but feel confident and have total trust in God's Word.
An ABC poll showed 61% most Christians believe Genesis creation is literal.
So, how can your statement be true? Should statements like this be posted publicly to other Christians to try to create distrust in the Bible? Does this come from God?
The fact is that there is an element of allegory and metaphor in the Genesis creation account. Christians are afraid to admit that because they think it diminishes the account and credibility of the Bible as a whole. But a realistic approach to Genesis 1-3 does no such thing. From Gen 2, for example, we see that it took time for vegetation to grow and cover the Garden. Adam could not have identified and named every animal in the world Gen 2:19-20. That is a stretch. Six days doesn't begin to explain the 13 Billion years old universe we live in. Careful examination of Genesis shows that God does things in an orderly and deliberate manner, in time. If God didn't work that way, why is it taking so long for God to rescue us from sin? Why not just say, 'let there be no sin' and poof, sin disappears?
Now, I covered the matter of the 2 Trees in the Garden before. When God expelled Adam from the Garden He set pillars of fire to guard the Tree of Life. Is that to be taken literally? And what happened? Did the fire run out? Where are those pillars? Clearly the imagery is metaphorical. From Revelation 22 and we know what the 2 Trees represented. They were not 2 physical Trees. The fruit was not a physical fruit. And eating the fruit was a metaphor for taking part in something they should not have been doing. Psalm 1:3. Read all of Ezek 31 to see a full picture of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. Who is that Tree? It is non other than the devil.
And who is the Tree of Life? None other than Christ
Yes, there is an element of symbolism, allegory and metaphor in Genesis 1-3. And the 2 Trees were representative of something other than trees. Continued in page 2.
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord formed (mould) man of the DUST of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Genesis 1:27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him: male and female. Genesis 2:22
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have DOMINION over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
GOD DID NOT give Adam dominion over OTHER men or women!
Just like everyone else that has lived prior and now, OUR COLOR came from the same dust.
Genesis 11:1-9 is the account of the Tower of Babel; which was for evil by Nimrod. God changed the language of the people from one to many. The Lord scattered them all over the earth. Nothing is said further about races or colors. It happened back in the dust God used. Adams name in original text means, RED. That doesn't mean Adam was Native American.
You have full cause to be at peace with the color your ancestors were. Who knows what color Moses was, but he married a woman from Midian, which was predominantly dark skinned. His sister Miriam made a protest about it and God afflicted her with leprosy for a while. Numbers chapter 12.
God hates racism of any kind.
Before God the creator, no one has ever had a right to persecute people of color. If they were reading the Bible rightly, they would know that; in their hearts.
Satan has used his WILL to enter in and pervert the truth. People bought into it and it's been this color versus that color ever since.
God is Spirit. The Holy Spirit is Spirit. Jesus is the Son of Man. (He has color)
Believe the Bible, pass it forward. I thank God we're not all the same color! :D
Jesus said for us to WATCH. Be looking for Him. Be ready. Be born again now. Lovingly witness to everyone you want " inside the Ark with you". Jesus IS the Ark. Every time someone came by & asked Noah what he was doing, he preached Salvation to them.
Only difference is that next time will be by Fire. We are supposed to preach these realities, that you know already.
The earth is readying. It's warming up. In Job you see that God has storehouses of hail stones. Every year we experience floods, huge forest fires, drought, wicked storms. If you watch the govt earthquake center, you will see places being rocked every day with size increased tremors. Especially in areas that are being fracked.
I'm praying that everyone is aware of these realities. There are people that think they can just "ride it out". Why not instead be ready to go with Jesus? Now.
1 Corinthians 12:31, 13:2, 14:1, 3, 5. I don't think it's useful to get bogged down in tongues again. Paul is saying that to PROPHESY (speak forth the Word of God) is more useful. The Holy Spirit watches over His Word.
You have a whole room in here with people dropping by to hear something from God. They have problems, they're frightened, they suspect that "this Bible stuff" may have some truth to it. These are Jesus's sheep and lambs! If you're not a shepherd, then you're a sheep. I remind myself often what Ezekiel was told in chapters 2 & 3. We are accountable for what we say or write. It's serious business. If you get unction to warn others...it is probably God. Habakkuk 2:2-3
I love the book of Genesis. You have to read it very slowly. Things in chapter 1 will be picked up again in 2 or 3, with additional information. Satan was a snake. Eve knew not to eat the fruit, but she wanted to have the knowledge. She was tempted with food.
Like us sometimes.