It's important to apply proper biblical hermeneutics when studying Proverbs 8:22-31. Just like balloons, scripture must be handled with care to grasp its true meaning and message. Blessings!
Thanks for your further comment Lovealot19. In reference to Proverbs 8:22-31, I read it as applying solely to Wisdom & it is Wisdom that speaks here (even as that whole chapter indicates).
I know, at least I've heard this before, that this chapter is understood as a Christological application, presenting a picture of Christ rather than the eternal character of Wisdom. It is true that Christ is the revelation of God's Wisdom & Power ( 1 Corinthians 1:24), & possesses all wisdom & knowledge ( Colossians 2:3), though there is no indication in that chapter that it speaks directly of Jesus. But it does show us that Wisdom is older than creation itself & is fundamental to it ( Proverbs 8:22); that it assisted in creation as a master workman ( Proverbs 8:30), and it rejoiced in creation ( Proverbs 8:30,31). So to me, this doesn't provide any proof that Jesus (Wisdom) is "the firstborn of all creation", yet it is very true that He was involved in God's creative Work in some form or manner ( Colossians 1:15-17).
Having stated that, & from which you may have gathered, I'm a strong believer & advocate of proper Biblical hermeneutics. For without first correctly understanding what the Bible passages speak about, then one can be prone to moving in all sorts of directions of understanding, believing that we are being led by God's Spirit. Yes, it is essential to be led of His Spirit in all things, even our reading of the Scriptures, but we must also endeavor to first understand as far as is possible what exactly is being communicated by the plain understanding of the Word. So, I would encourage you to bear this in mind as you read & study God's Word. Blessings.
Jesus as firstborn creation He spoke about this himself in details:
I found this scriptures:
Proverbs 8:22-31
22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
Jesus described what it was like to be with his Father and this scriptures is further proof that he is the "firstborn of all creation" .. "the beginning of the creation of God" It doesn't make sense if he is talking about himself. It's very descriptive. Which also made Genesis 1:26 - "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." His son was with him.
I'm slowly learning the verses of the Bible. Thought this is interesting. I want to find the truth :)
Hi Lorraine. You are correct, that Proverbs generally speaks to a male, whether Solomon's son or to a student generally. As well, in Proverbs 4:1, Proverbs 5:7, Proverbs 7:24, and Proverbs 8:32, we see Solomon addressing children. So bringing these together, we could safely accept that the wisdom for living that Solomon (& others) expressed in this Book, is directed to all people, even though the masculine gender is generally referred to & also to young people. And bearing in mind, that females usually did not have the same opportunities & liberties as males in that era (& even now in some countries), we can understand why Solomon focussed his teaching to a male, & to children (young ones).
So, like any other teaching in the Bible, we should take hold of the Truths therein & seek the Spirit's help to apply them to our lives, rather than being overly concerned about the person being addressed. An example in the NT: Jesus spoke to many people such as His disciples, the public that thronged Him, & even to the hypocritical religious leaders. If Jesus checked Martha preparing the meal or the Pharisee who falsely accused Him, both men & women today can still take away lessons from these & any other account, even if someone else is being addressed in the Bible.
Luke 6 says in these two verses: 46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
And John 14:23
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Proverbs 8:36 states that those who hate God love death (that is also somewhere in John I believe).
I am going out on a limb here somewhat; but I would say that in the context of verses in John and 1 John that indicate
evidence of saving faith is loving the brethren that would necessitate as with these other passages that first there is in
the individual a hearing of the Word of God. That would be probably what scripture would define as calling someone; or the "general call". The parable of the seed and the sower shows that; with the exception of the one in stony ground that Satan steals immediately; there is a process where BEFORE fruit comes to maturity there is a testing of trials as well as worldly temptations to try to thwart fruit coming to maturity.
At the very least; this proves that some come to faith and immediately begin to grow when they first hear the Gospel and others fall away. It also shows the third possibility such as is illustrated in Matthew 21:29-31 about two sons; one of whom says he won't follow but later does; and vice versa. This could be insight as to those who appear to be averse to conversion but later come to faith; along with a warning of those who only make a VERBAL assent but don't have a heart change as indicated by Romans 10:9. I haven't heard this analysis but think there is some merit to it; as anyone who falls away short of producing good fruit appears NOT to be saved in reality. Could part of being saved be our reaction to the testing of God? This could be a key factor many are missing and these verses show deeds follow words.
A wise deacon in our church has stated that we are in enemy territory currently on earth. Our state prior to salvation was an enemy of God as we were blinded by the god of this world to do his bidding ( 2 Cor. 4:4). Despite what may be assumed by some; there are numerous descriptions of hell in the Old Testament. There are also references to heaven and the Millennial reign of saints ( Psalm 61 seems to be a veiled reference to David in that capacity; for instance). We see also in the famous passage in Job 19:27 which alludes to a bodily resurrection where he will see God. Psalm 63:9 is another reference to hell; in sending enemies to the "lowest parts of the earth." As much as we may not comprehend these eternal truths; Proverbs 8:36 states that "all who hate me love death." (see also John 3:19-21 and 1 John 2:11).
Jesus makes it clear that He is the only way to salvation in John 10:9 and many other passages state the same thing; often in parables. Those who are not enlightened to this truth often have some scripture knowledge, but they can only see general statements about living a righteous life or see descriptions of God and only see God from afar; much as the Israelites did when wandering through the wilderness. Somehow man's myopic perspective focuses on characters in the Bible and considers those who were a prophet; or a "good teacher" and not understanding who is truly good; that is God alone ( Mark 10:18). This is why the man called Christ good in that passage; he was only seeing Him through human lenses rather than His true position as God in the flesh which only God Himself can reveal to someone ( Matt. 16:17).
These truths explain why man underplays his spiritual condition; he sees outer works and judges himself on them; and that based on his own set of scales weighing in his heart the "good vs. the bad"; ignoring God's perfect Holy standard. Worse still; he is blind to his sin NATURE which can only be changed God's way
First of all I believe the Bible is the word of God, it is true it is pure and without abomination
It is written in
Proverbs 8:7
7.For my mouth shall speak truth;
And wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8.All the words of my mouth are in righteousness.
There is nothing froward or perverse in them.
Hell is a real place and not an abstract and it was never created for man but for the devil and his fallen angels.
In the book of Ezekiel chapter 32, The Lord spoke to His prophet Ezekiel and gave him word of Judgment to bring to pharaoh king of Egypt.
And from verse 2 to 18 the judgment is issued to the king and all the land of Egypt
But at the start of Chapter 32:18,
Prophets Ezekiel receives the word of the Lord where he is informed to weep for Egypt and all its people and at the same time God revels Hell to us in this verse where Egypt is to be cast down to the depth of the earth. Egypt and famous nations which are going down to the pit.
As we continue to read, we see that those Egyptian will be placed among those killed by the sword and those famous nation such Assyria is there, The Elams, The endomites Etc.all who are killed by the sword.
In Verse 23
The Lord point this for us That in Hell there is(Recesses of the Pit,)
And the meaning of recesses is this
1.The depths or innermost part of something
2. a small space created by building part of a wall further back from the rest.
All this indicating apportion or section a cage a cell in hell where this people are held.
Another thing that stands out from this verse is that Those who are in hell they caused terror in the Land of the Living, again showing they are not living but are dead.
In Verse 24 the last part we see the wording are in continue present tense indication this action is still happing. And I will quote the last the part on this Verse. Which is in
Ezekeil 32:24
yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit.
Every 'deception' and 'truth' can be confirmed with the 'Word of God' for the 'Word is God ' ( John 1:1). It is the only Book in the world that is able to do that.
The Word of God is not a Book, the Bible, it's the words of God & a true testimony of Him, but not God the Word.
Was the Bible in the beginning with God or was God the Word ? Is the Bible able to discern the intend & thoughts of your heart? or God the Word, who is a sharp two edged sword piercing even to the dividing of soul & spirit. Is the Bible able to ride a white horse ? or the Word of God, Rev 19:11-16
It was the Word of God who the Lord possess in the beginning of His ways, Proverbs 8:22-36
Christ the Word, the power & the Wisdom of God who was with God in the beginning.
You been corrected in this seven mountain theory of yours,
Friend, it appears that He, the living Word of God has found you out & your faith is flawed, for your own words are a witness against you, deceived would be a appropriated word for this situation you now find yourself in.
Unfortunately in your carnal natural state your understanding has been blinded to this, but there is repentance if you turn from darkness, from the power of Satan to God, the Light that been reveal to you. Ephesians 5:18
& truly may God grant you this repentance, though it maybe just a sin of ignorance.
Isaiah 45:7 - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
I'm having difficulty reconciling the above with 1 John 1:5 - "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." And also, Proverbs 8:13 - "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil............."
When combining the verses, it appears that God hates the evil He created and that He created darkness out of something not in Him at all.
"you don't know why I would bring up this matter, as it pertains to our discussion. When in Truth, it reaches to the very heart of it.
Going to the letter, in Hebrew or Greek etc; as you quoted & spoke from, comes from the traditions & teaching of man, the wisdom that's from below, earthy, which makes Mark 7:13, which sprang up in the Apostasy. Isa 55:8,9;
Whereas coming to the Spirit, our Teacher; The Word Rom 10:8; that comes Rom 10:17; within us, produces the fruit, the Word intended Isa 55;11; Isa 14:27;
Bringing this part of the conversation to a conclusion, by giving "the cause & effect of the learning from the letter, verses being taught by God Himself.
1Cor 2:10 which is freely & lavishly given unto us in Christ. Col 2:2,3; Proverbs 8:14;
You said; you don't subscribe to this type of application of sanctification ; citing verses with the word meaning; its plain to me that your faith is coming from books, & not our Teacher; who is Hebrews 12:2. Your trying to understand spiritual things by carnal means, Thus this faith you have is 2Timothy 3:7 Meaning; it will never bring one to the experiential knowledge of God; in Spirit & in Truth. Matt 11:27; For God is a Spirit & only by His Spirit is He manifested & known.
Jeremiah 31:33,34; New Covenant, he's prophesying, not that he partook of it, 1Peter 1:10; & yet he was cleansed & holy under the gospel of his dispensation 2 Peter 1:21; as many were Luke 1:5,6;
Again; what God requires of us, is to walk upright in the knowledge that He has given us.
Thank you for your kind apology, no offense taken, just a misunderstanding. Believe me, in this slow progressive work of sanctification, I've have had many misunderstanding & faltering, receiving His reproofs & admonishments, I've learnt Daniel 4:37; I love the way He gets to me. He always "hit the nail on the head" so to speak,& why? Daniel 2:22, Psalms 36:9;
you have experience Him in Spirit, Chris (in the car)
Hello Michaelantoni. The Hebrew word given for 'witty inventions', is as you've shown, 'mezzimah'. In your study, you would have also found out how that word is used in the other verses. In Proverbs 8:12 that you shared, this Hebrew word implies 'one's power to devise or show discretion'. Hence, the verse could read, 'I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge through the use of discretion.' Or further with that verse, 'I wisdom enjoy good sense, acquiring knowledge by the use of discretion'. And we see the same word, 'mezzimah', with its specific meaning used in Proverbs 1:4, Proverbs 2:11, Proverbs 3:21 & Proverbs 5:2.
And yes, we can see that word being applied towards 'thoughts' ( Jeremiah 23:20); 'intents' ( Jeremiah 30:24); 'device/plan' ( Jeremiah 51:11). And then we see it in 'evil thoughts' ( Psalm 10:4); 'evil schemes' ( Job 21:27); 'lewd/wicked acts' ( Jeremiah 11:15); wicked speech ( Psalm 139:20).
So to understand 'mezzimah', which meaning can be quite diverse, we need to read it as the verse gives it, in its correct context. So 'discretion or one's power to devise' appears to be the primary meaning of 'mezzimah', but how that word is used will give other associated meanings, i.e. whether one's mind works for that which is good & wholesome, or towards evil thoughts & acts. So, I believe we find an agreement here.
-Please pray for understand for God will give him who ask freely.
It's written in John 10:35 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35, If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
meaning the bible cannot contradict itself. infact Jesus Has Said this in Proverbs 8:8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; There is nothing froward or perverse in them.
So, my advice to you is to Kneel down and repent of your unbelief and ask The Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God to Help you understand His words The sharp two- Eged sword.
In Matthew 6:22 -23. 22Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
-What we fail to see here is this, Satan entered unto peter and he is using peter to try and deceive Jesus Christ not to Go to the Cross and if The Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God would have not gone to the cross then the whole bible would be compromised, and every word of prophecy would collapse just by that one action. remember Just before Jesus was arrested by the temple Gurds/solders What He said unto them. in Matthew 27:53-54
53Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
Genesis 2:15,16,17, Genesis 3:1-6, skipping parts Genesis 3:14,15, between the seed of Serpent - Revelation 20:2,
John 8:34, 1John 3, Romans 5, John 3:16-21, James 1:5, Proverbs 8:17,
Example, simple Salvation "GOD save me" many times in life threatening situations, & many times HE has. Psalms 18:3, Psalms 107:13, Psalms 44:7, Luke 18:42, Psalms 34:6,
Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 2, Matthew 24, Mark 13, Psalms 139,
Many theologists have the belief that that "wisdom" mentioned in Proverbs is Jesus Christ personally. Why do they think that? Because of verses like in 1 Cor 1:23-24 or 1 Cor 1:30 "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption". They take those verses literally. Is this right? Many opinions. Mine is no it isn't. In the previous verses what Paul says is that through Jesus God's wisdom was revealed to people, not that He is the Wisdom Himself. It was Jesus who revealed God's truth to people, he revealed the mysterious plan of God to save mankind. God's wisdom can not be explored by people, many believe it is "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness" (verse 18), but it really is " but unto us which are saved it is the power of God".
Going back to Proverbs God's wisdom takes a human nature and talks like a man. It was something that even todays writters do, they personify things, to make a stronger impression. Paul does that when he personifies sin in Romans, or when he talks about Death and Hell(Hades) in Corinthians. Besides that, wisdom in Proverbs is described as a woman not as a man, since in Hebrew this word is of feminine gender, like in Proverbs 2:4. In Hebrew "am-thbqshNE kksph ukmtmunim thchphshNE". In English "if you are seekingHER as the silver and as the buried treasures you are searching for HER"
Fake gods come from rebellion against GOD ALMIGHTY. Acts 19:26, 2Kings 19:18,
1Timothy 2:5,
The imagination of man; to ignore the obvious all around: that the earth, our very being, molecules that aren't created, only slightly manipulated by man, asks an answer beyond some comprehension.
The question itself seems to derive from rebellion. Isaiah 55:8, Isaiah 29:15,16, Psalms 94:5-15, Psalms 139, Job 38:2-41, Job 40:7-13,
GOD gave some of us very deeply inquisitive minds, to invent witty things, Proverbs 8:12, some build imaginative creations, that in ourselves deep questions of consciousness & core beginnings arise at times. In these gifted minds of power & powerful thinking, faults sometimes into arrogance of belief to define The CREATOR & make a beginning. Because in limited understanding we have beginning & perceivable ending in flesh. Yet in our core perceive there is more in the supernatural, outside the flesh. 1Corinthians 1:27,
We as humans are like gods ourselves we can choose to do mighty evil or good in our days, we can cause other's to cry in distress or rejoice with gladness but in the end we will all answer to GOD ALMIGHTY the maker of heaven & earth. Psalms 82, Leviticus 25:17, Romans 14:12,
It's also amazing that a creator would care so much for what HE has created that HE would still have a plan of redemption even after rebellion: John 3:16
PRIDE AND POWER WAS SATANS UNDOING - In Reply - 2 years ago
Proverbs 11:2 - When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.
Proverbs 16:5 - Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.
Proverbs 29:23 - A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.
Proverbs 16:18 - Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Galatians 6:3 - For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
James 4:6 - But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Proverbs 27:2 - Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.
Proverbs 26:12 - Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
Philippians 2:3 - Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Proverbs 8:13 - The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Jeremiah 9:23 - Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
1 John 2:16 - For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Romans 12:16 - Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
Mark 7
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
God says He resists the proud, but He is always on the side of the humble. "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; pride and arrogance and the evil way and the perverse mouth I hate" Proverbs 8:13.
John tells us that "the pride of life-is not of the Father but is of the world" ( 1 John 2:16). Where does the pride of life come from? If there is anything that comes from the devil, that is it.
Even our salvation should spoken of with humility, It is something about which to glorify God. It should humble you being you had no part in it.
Paul writes, "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus" Philippians 2:5.
What kind of mind did He have? Lowliness of mind. He said, "Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle meek] and lowly in heart. Matthew 11:29.
Pride is destroying the testimony of many Christians and has made them ineffective for God. They go in for show and draw people after themselves but they are building nothing more than wood hay and stubble.
Jesus tought a lesson in Humility in John 13:8-15. ( Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.)
Matthew 23:11-12. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:25-26.
But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: ( Titus 2:1)
The Bible tells us we lived with God before we were born.
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? ( Job 38:4,7)
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. ( Jeremiah 1:5)
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2 (Timothy 1:9)
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: ( Ephesians 1:4)
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: ( 1 Corinthians 2:7)
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; (Titus1:2)
(A Prayer of Moses the man of God.) Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. (Psalms: 90:1-2)
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. ( Romans 11:2)
She was with our Lord before and during the creation of the world.
Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; ( Proverbs 8:30)
Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
The word "Elohim" is the plural aspect of the Godhead. Since God is one; yet is in three forms (Father; Son and Holy Ghost) they were all involved in the Creation. This is why scripture states "let us create man in OUR image" ( Gen. 1:26); and later on states they know good and evil like us ( Gen. 3:22-loosely translated). Christ actually was the one who created all things ( Eph. 3:9); with God involved. Proverbs 8:22-31 seems to show wisdom personified by the Holy Spirit also presiding over things since before the beginning and in the Creation of the earth. (See also John 1:1). "Gods" may be the best way in human understanding to explain the Hebrew translation but it shouldn't imply that there is more than one true God despite 3 manifestations. Even that is imperfect but closer to explaining the mystery of the Godhead.
In practical terms; when we see Christ at the crucifixion; it is clear that the universe itself ( Colossians 1:17) would have ceased to exist at his death if there weren't other members of the Godhead (not to mention that Christ would be praying to Himself).
So the "Oneness" group is clearly offbase. We could say that God the Father came up with the plan of Creation; as well as the Crucifixion ( Isaiah 53:10) and Christ did the action. The Spirit is often in Proverbs personified as "Wisdom" crying out in the streets. It is seen in some sense as "hovering over the waters" ( Gen. 1:2).
The important aspect here is that God in every form is Omnicient; Omnipresent and Omnipotent (All knowing; everywhere; and all powerful). He also will preside as this present world and it's elements are burned up ( 2 Peter 3:10). We can; mercifully rejoice that a new heaven and earth will be for us someday; according to Rev. 22. All the gods (small g) which are in reality representations of demons and or men's vain imaginations will be destroyed as well. God is the Creator; we are His Creation along with all angels and demons. Praise God.
Word,G3056; W in Word is capital showing omnipototentency of GOD=Gr. logos
The divine purpose in the gospel of John is to present the LORD JESUS as GOD. This is the one great feature and difference from this gospel and the others. John's writings always point to the deity of Yeshua. Johns presentation of the LORD as having the divine attribute of omniscience, not to say the other gospels does not point to this but the Gospel of John it is much more frequent. WORD (Gr.Logos) portrayed by John as GOD - a Spirit of infinity, Eternal, Perfect, Almighty, Omnipotent. John was the disciple that Jesus loved and wrote John, 3 epistles and also Rev. -GOD giving him much insight to 1st age and the end. John always trying to get people to understand the beginning for if you don't understand what happen in the beginning all the way back in 1st earth age, you cant understand whats happening in this age. The time Satan fell from grace and convinced 1/3 of GODS created souls to fallow him. The 3 epistles of John indicate the writing was from a earlier time then gospel of John
Here and :2 supply (of the aions=ages) for the Logos then "was" and the aions were prepared by HIM (Hebrew. 1:2, 11:3
acts 11:15) supply (of our ministry) 2:4; In Phillipians 4:15 supply the proclamation of the gospel. was here- implying already pre-existed. Creation not mentioned until :3
Word had no beginning John 1:3, 17:5, 1 John 1:1, Ephesians 1:4, Proverbs 8:23, Psalms 90:2, John 8:58. not the same was as in :14
the Word Gr. Logos. As the spoken Word reveals the invisible thought, as the living Word reveals the invisible GOD. John 1:18
the (artical) designates "the Word" as the subject. "the Word"
I'm responding to your reply without reading any of the responses, so my thoughts will stay focused. Just incase there's repeating._..
Being you're still alive, it's not final judgement: Matthew 4:17, Acts 17:30, 2Peter 3:9, in context read whole chapter. Psalms 48:14, Proverbs 10:12, Proverbs 13:14, Ezekiel 33:11, Ezekiel 18:32,
it could be warning from GOD: Psalms 118:18,
or attack not from GOD,: Ephesians 6:12,
Psalms 90,
Jeremiah 18:8,
Psalms 37,
You are angry because of injustice it seems: Exodus 21, Exodus 22, Leviticus 20, Numbers 35, Proverbs 8:36, Genesis 18:19, Proverbs 21:3,
Psalms 73, Jeremiah 27:7-18, Isaiah 58, Isaiah 59, Matthew 25:31-46, James 2,
I am doing well. I can type one and a half handed now since my surgery hand is regaining some dexterity. My foot is hurting, but I am sure that that will dissipate sometime this week. Don't know yet when I'll be able to walk on it. i am getting good at maneuvering around with a knee scooter. God ia healing me bit by bit. I am thankful.
Hello Rhonda. Yes, God is all wise. Wisdom is who He is just like Righteous is who He is, and
Eternal is who He is. It was never acquired by Him from anything outside of Himself. All that we know of Him is Who He is inherently. He never can add to Himself nor detract from Himself. He never changes and is completely independent about everything He has, therefore He aquires nor requires nothing from outside of Himself, He is complete, perfect, infinite, self-existent,, in need of nothing. Pretty amazing!
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Proverbs 19:23
The fear of the Lord tendeth to life: and he that hath it shall abide satisfied; he shall not be visited with evil.
Job 28:28
And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
Luke 1:50
And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.
Phillipians 2:12-13
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to Will and to Do of his good pleasure.
Deuteronomy 31:6
Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them (enemies) : for the Lord thy God, he it is that goes with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
Comment: it means to honor and respect; to trust and follow God.
I know, at least I've heard this before, that this chapter is understood as a Christological application, presenting a picture of Christ rather than the eternal character of Wisdom. It is true that Christ is the revelation of God's Wisdom & Power ( 1 Corinthians 1:24), & possesses all wisdom & knowledge ( Colossians 2:3), though there is no indication in that chapter that it speaks directly of Jesus. But it does show us that Wisdom is older than creation itself & is fundamental to it ( Proverbs 8:22); that it assisted in creation as a master workman ( Proverbs 8:30), and it rejoiced in creation ( Proverbs 8:30,31). So to me, this doesn't provide any proof that Jesus (Wisdom) is "the firstborn of all creation", yet it is very true that He was involved in God's creative Work in some form or manner ( Colossians 1:15-17).
Having stated that, & from which you may have gathered, I'm a strong believer & advocate of proper Biblical hermeneutics. For without first correctly understanding what the Bible passages speak about, then one can be prone to moving in all sorts of directions of understanding, believing that we are being led by God's Spirit. Yes, it is essential to be led of His Spirit in all things, even our reading of the Scriptures, but we must also endeavor to first understand as far as is possible what exactly is being communicated by the plain understanding of the Word. So, I would encourage you to bear this in mind as you read & study God's Word. Blessings.
Jesus as firstborn creation He spoke about this himself in details:
I found this scriptures:
Proverbs 8:22-31
22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
Jesus described what it was like to be with his Father and this scriptures is further proof that he is the "firstborn of all creation" .. "the beginning of the creation of God" It doesn't make sense if he is talking about himself. It's very descriptive. Which also made Genesis 1:26 - "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." His son was with him.
I'm slowly learning the verses of the Bible. Thought this is interesting. I want to find the truth :)
So, like any other teaching in the Bible, we should take hold of the Truths therein & seek the Spirit's help to apply them to our lives, rather than being overly concerned about the person being addressed. An example in the NT: Jesus spoke to many people such as His disciples, the public that thronged Him, & even to the hypocritical religious leaders. If Jesus checked Martha preparing the meal or the Pharisee who falsely accused Him, both men & women today can still take away lessons from these & any other account, even if someone else is being addressed in the Bible.
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
And John 14:23
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Proverbs 8:36 states that those who hate God love death (that is also somewhere in John I believe).
I am going out on a limb here somewhat; but I would say that in the context of verses in John and 1 John that indicate
evidence of saving faith is loving the brethren that would necessitate as with these other passages that first there is in
the individual a hearing of the Word of God. That would be probably what scripture would define as calling someone; or the "general call". The parable of the seed and the sower shows that; with the exception of the one in stony ground that Satan steals immediately; there is a process where BEFORE fruit comes to maturity there is a testing of trials as well as worldly temptations to try to thwart fruit coming to maturity.
At the very least; this proves that some come to faith and immediately begin to grow when they first hear the Gospel and others fall away. It also shows the third possibility such as is illustrated in Matthew 21:29-31 about two sons; one of whom says he won't follow but later does; and vice versa. This could be insight as to those who appear to be averse to conversion but later come to faith; along with a warning of those who only make a VERBAL assent but don't have a heart change as indicated by Romans 10:9. I haven't heard this analysis but think there is some merit to it; as anyone who falls away short of producing good fruit appears NOT to be saved in reality. Could part of being saved be our reaction to the testing of God? This could be a key factor many are missing and these verses show deeds follow words.
A wise deacon in our church has stated that we are in enemy territory currently on earth. Our state prior to salvation was an enemy of God as we were blinded by the god of this world to do his bidding ( 2 Cor. 4:4). Despite what may be assumed by some; there are numerous descriptions of hell in the Old Testament. There are also references to heaven and the Millennial reign of saints ( Psalm 61 seems to be a veiled reference to David in that capacity; for instance). We see also in the famous passage in Job 19:27 which alludes to a bodily resurrection where he will see God. Psalm 63:9 is another reference to hell; in sending enemies to the "lowest parts of the earth." As much as we may not comprehend these eternal truths; Proverbs 8:36 states that "all who hate me love death." (see also John 3:19-21 and 1 John 2:11).
Jesus makes it clear that He is the only way to salvation in John 10:9 and many other passages state the same thing; often in parables. Those who are not enlightened to this truth often have some scripture knowledge, but they can only see general statements about living a righteous life or see descriptions of God and only see God from afar; much as the Israelites did when wandering through the wilderness. Somehow man's myopic perspective focuses on characters in the Bible and considers those who were a prophet; or a "good teacher" and not understanding who is truly good; that is God alone ( Mark 10:18). This is why the man called Christ good in that passage; he was only seeing Him through human lenses rather than His true position as God in the flesh which only God Himself can reveal to someone ( Matt. 16:17).
These truths explain why man underplays his spiritual condition; he sees outer works and judges himself on them; and that based on his own set of scales weighing in his heart the "good vs. the bad"; ignoring God's perfect Holy standard. Worse still; he is blind to his sin NATURE which can only be changed God's way
Hi
First of all I believe the Bible is the word of God, it is true it is pure and without abomination
It is written in
Proverbs 8:7
7.For my mouth shall speak truth;
And wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8.All the words of my mouth are in righteousness.
There is nothing froward or perverse in them.
Hell is a real place and not an abstract and it was never created for man but for the devil and his fallen angels.
In the book of Ezekiel chapter 32, The Lord spoke to His prophet Ezekiel and gave him word of Judgment to bring to pharaoh king of Egypt.
And from verse 2 to 18 the judgment is issued to the king and all the land of Egypt
But at the start of Chapter 32:18,
Prophets Ezekiel receives the word of the Lord where he is informed to weep for Egypt and all its people and at the same time God revels Hell to us in this verse where Egypt is to be cast down to the depth of the earth. Egypt and famous nations which are going down to the pit.
As we continue to read, we see that those Egyptian will be placed among those killed by the sword and those famous nation such Assyria is there, The Elams, The endomites Etc.all who are killed by the sword.
In Verse 23
The Lord point this for us That in Hell there is(Recesses of the Pit,)
And the meaning of recesses is this
1.The depths or innermost part of something
2. a small space created by building part of a wall further back from the rest.
All this indicating apportion or section a cage a cell in hell where this people are held.
Another thing that stands out from this verse is that Those who are in hell they caused terror in the Land of the Living, again showing they are not living but are dead.
In Verse 24 the last part we see the wording are in continue present tense indication this action is still happing. And I will quote the last the part on this Verse. Which is in
Ezekeil 32:24
yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit.
Conclusion
Like I said, you don't understand what happened at Christ's resurrection.
You DIED on the cross with Christ.
Christ ONLY was raised.
You were made JOINT HEIRS with Christ, you and Christ were MADE ONE.
YOU have no free will, your DEAD, only the NEW CREATION exist.
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit in you, and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes, and keep my judgements and DO THEM.
Your right, God only sees Christ and his righteousness, you being a JOINT HEIR.
Now, are you nothing, or has Christ's resurrection made you SOMETHING.
Proverbs 8:19 MY FRUIT is better than gold,yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than than choice silver.
God BLESS YOU!
God BLESS YOU!
Let take a look at what you stated
Every 'deception' and 'truth' can be confirmed with the 'Word of God' for the 'Word is God ' ( John 1:1). It is the only Book in the world that is able to do that.
The Word of God is not a Book, the Bible, it's the words of God & a true testimony of Him, but not God the Word.
Was the Bible in the beginning with God or was God the Word ? Is the Bible able to discern the intend & thoughts of your heart? or God the Word, who is a sharp two edged sword piercing even to the dividing of soul & spirit. Is the Bible able to ride a white horse ? or the Word of God, Rev 19:11-16
It was the Word of God who the Lord possess in the beginning of His ways, Proverbs 8:22-36
Christ the Word, the power & the Wisdom of God who was with God in the beginning.
You been corrected in this seven mountain theory of yours,
Friend, it appears that He, the living Word of God has found you out & your faith is flawed, for your own words are a witness against you, deceived would be a appropriated word for this situation you now find yourself in.
Unfortunately in your carnal natural state your understanding has been blinded to this, but there is repentance if you turn from darkness, from the power of Satan to God, the Light that been reveal to you. Ephesians 5:18
& truly may God grant you this repentance, though it maybe just a sin of ignorance.
A friend In love & truth
Isaiah 45:7 - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
I'm having difficulty reconciling the above with 1 John 1:5 - "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." And also, Proverbs 8:13 - "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil............."
When combining the verses, it appears that God hates the evil He created and that He created darkness out of something not in Him at all.
Any help would be appreciated.
God Is
Peace
"you don't know why I would bring up this matter, as it pertains to our discussion. When in Truth, it reaches to the very heart of it.
Going to the letter, in Hebrew or Greek etc; as you quoted & spoke from, comes from the traditions & teaching of man, the wisdom that's from below, earthy, which makes Mark 7:13, which sprang up in the Apostasy. Isa 55:8,9;
Whereas coming to the Spirit, our Teacher; The Word Rom 10:8; that comes Rom 10:17; within us, produces the fruit, the Word intended Isa 55;11; Isa 14:27;
Bringing this part of the conversation to a conclusion, by giving "the cause & effect of the learning from the letter, verses being taught by God Himself.
1Cor 2:10 which is freely & lavishly given unto us in Christ. Col 2:2,3; Proverbs 8:14;
You said; you don't subscribe to this type of application of sanctification ; citing verses with the word meaning; its plain to me that your faith is coming from books, & not our Teacher; who is Hebrews 12:2. Your trying to understand spiritual things by carnal means, Thus this faith you have is 2Timothy 3:7 Meaning; it will never bring one to the experiential knowledge of God; in Spirit & in Truth. Matt 11:27; For God is a Spirit & only by His Spirit is He manifested & known.
Jeremiah 31:33,34; New Covenant, he's prophesying, not that he partook of it, 1Peter 1:10; & yet he was cleansed & holy under the gospel of his dispensation 2 Peter 1:21; as many were Luke 1:5,6;
Again; what God requires of us, is to walk upright in the knowledge that He has given us.
Thank you for your kind apology, no offense taken, just a misunderstanding. Believe me, in this slow progressive work of sanctification, I've have had many misunderstanding & faltering, receiving His reproofs & admonishments, I've learnt Daniel 4:37; I love the way He gets to me. He always "hit the nail on the head" so to speak,& why? Daniel 2:22, Psalms 36:9;
you have experience Him in Spirit, Chris (in the car)
in Love & Truth
Frankie J
And yes, we can see that word being applied towards 'thoughts' ( Jeremiah 23:20); 'intents' ( Jeremiah 30:24); 'device/plan' ( Jeremiah 51:11). And then we see it in 'evil thoughts' ( Psalm 10:4); 'evil schemes' ( Job 21:27); 'lewd/wicked acts' ( Jeremiah 11:15); wicked speech ( Psalm 139:20).
So to understand 'mezzimah', which meaning can be quite diverse, we need to read it as the verse gives it, in its correct context. So 'discretion or one's power to devise' appears to be the primary meaning of 'mezzimah', but how that word is used will give other associated meanings, i.e. whether one's mind works for that which is good & wholesome, or towards evil thoughts & acts. So, I believe we find an agreement here.
Hi
-Please pray for understand for God will give him who ask freely.
It's written in John 10:35 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35, If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
meaning the bible cannot contradict itself. infact Jesus Has Said this in Proverbs 8:8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; There is nothing froward or perverse in them.
So, my advice to you is to Kneel down and repent of your unbelief and ask The Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God to Help you understand His words The sharp two- Eged sword.
In Matthew 6:22 -23. 22Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
-What we fail to see here is this, Satan entered unto peter and he is using peter to try and deceive Jesus Christ not to Go to the Cross and if The Lord Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God would have not gone to the cross then the whole bible would be compromised, and every word of prophecy would collapse just by that one action. remember Just before Jesus was arrested by the temple Gurds/solders What He said unto them. in Matthew 27:53-54
53Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?
Genesis 2:15,16,17, Genesis 3:1-6, skipping parts Genesis 3:14,15, between the seed of Serpent - Revelation 20:2,
John 8:34, 1John 3, Romans 5, John 3:16-21, James 1:5, Proverbs 8:17,
Example, simple Salvation "GOD save me" many times in life threatening situations, & many times HE has. Psalms 18:3, Psalms 107:13, Psalms 44:7, Luke 18:42, Psalms 34:6,
Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 2, Matthew 24, Mark 13, Psalms 139,
Romans 10:13, context Romans 10, Everlasting Salvation, Isaiah 45:17, Acts 4,
1John 3:14, Job 38:17, Revelation 20, Psalms 49, Ecclesiastes 8:8, Romans 5, Revelation 21,
Hopefully these are helpful
Many theologists have the belief that that "wisdom" mentioned in Proverbs is Jesus Christ personally. Why do they think that? Because of verses like in 1 Cor 1:23-24 or 1 Cor 1:30 "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption". They take those verses literally. Is this right? Many opinions. Mine is no it isn't. In the previous verses what Paul says is that through Jesus God's wisdom was revealed to people, not that He is the Wisdom Himself. It was Jesus who revealed God's truth to people, he revealed the mysterious plan of God to save mankind. God's wisdom can not be explored by people, many believe it is "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness" (verse 18), but it really is " but unto us which are saved it is the power of God".
Going back to Proverbs God's wisdom takes a human nature and talks like a man. It was something that even todays writters do, they personify things, to make a stronger impression. Paul does that when he personifies sin in Romans, or when he talks about Death and Hell(Hades) in Corinthians. Besides that, wisdom in Proverbs is described as a woman not as a man, since in Hebrew this word is of feminine gender, like in Proverbs 2:4. In Hebrew "am-thbqshNE kksph ukmtmunim thchphshNE". In English "if you are seekingHER as the silver and as the buried treasures you are searching for HER"
GBU
Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
1Timothy 2:5,
The imagination of man; to ignore the obvious all around: that the earth, our very being, molecules that aren't created, only slightly manipulated by man, asks an answer beyond some comprehension.
The question itself seems to derive from rebellion. Isaiah 55:8, Isaiah 29:15,16, Psalms 94:5-15, Psalms 139, Job 38:2-41, Job 40:7-13,
GOD gave some of us very deeply inquisitive minds, to invent witty things, Proverbs 8:12, some build imaginative creations, that in ourselves deep questions of consciousness & core beginnings arise at times. In these gifted minds of power & powerful thinking, faults sometimes into arrogance of belief to define The CREATOR & make a beginning. Because in limited understanding we have beginning & perceivable ending in flesh. Yet in our core perceive there is more in the supernatural, outside the flesh. 1Corinthians 1:27,
We as humans are like gods ourselves we can choose to do mighty evil or good in our days, we can cause other's to cry in distress or rejoice with gladness but in the end we will all answer to GOD ALMIGHTY the maker of heaven & earth. Psalms 82, Leviticus 25:17, Romans 14:12,
It's also amazing that a creator would care so much for what HE has created that HE would still have a plan of redemption even after rebellion: John 3:16
Proverbs 16:5 - Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.
Proverbs 29:23 - A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.
Proverbs 16:18 - Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Galatians 6:3 - For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
James 4:6 - But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Proverbs 27:2 - Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.
Proverbs 26:12 - Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
Philippians 2:3 - Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Proverbs 8:13 - The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Jeremiah 9:23 - Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
1 John 2:16 - For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Romans 12:16 - Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
Mark 7
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Humility is the opposite of pride.
God says He resists the proud, but He is always on the side of the humble. "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; pride and arrogance and the evil way and the perverse mouth I hate" Proverbs 8:13.
John tells us that "the pride of life-is not of the Father but is of the world" ( 1 John 2:16). Where does the pride of life come from? If there is anything that comes from the devil, that is it.
Even our salvation should spoken of with humility, It is something about which to glorify God. It should humble you being you had no part in it.
Paul writes, "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus" Philippians 2:5.
What kind of mind did He have? Lowliness of mind. He said, "Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle meek] and lowly in heart. Matthew 11:29.
Pride is destroying the testimony of many Christians and has made them ineffective for God. They go in for show and draw people after themselves but they are building nothing more than wood hay and stubble.
Jesus tought a lesson in Humility in John 13:8-15. ( Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.)
Matthew 23:11-12. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:25-26.
God bless.
The Bible tells us we lived with God before we were born.
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? ( Job 38:4,7)
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. ( Jeremiah 1:5)
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2 (Timothy 1:9)
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: ( Ephesians 1:4)
But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: ( 1 Corinthians 2:7)
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; (Titus1:2)
(A Prayer of Moses the man of God.) Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. (Psalms: 90:1-2)
God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. ( Romans 11:2)
She was with our Lord before and during the creation of the world.
Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; ( Proverbs 8:30)
Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.
I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
( Proverbs 8:4, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27)
In practical terms; when we see Christ at the crucifixion; it is clear that the universe itself ( Colossians 1:17) would have ceased to exist at his death if there weren't other members of the Godhead (not to mention that Christ would be praying to Himself).
So the "Oneness" group is clearly offbase. We could say that God the Father came up with the plan of Creation; as well as the Crucifixion ( Isaiah 53:10) and Christ did the action. The Spirit is often in Proverbs personified as "Wisdom" crying out in the streets. It is seen in some sense as "hovering over the waters" ( Gen. 1:2).
The important aspect here is that God in every form is Omnicient; Omnipresent and Omnipotent (All knowing; everywhere; and all powerful). He also will preside as this present world and it's elements are burned up ( 2 Peter 3:10). We can; mercifully rejoice that a new heaven and earth will be for us someday; according to Rev. 22. All the gods (small g) which are in reality representations of demons and or men's vain imaginations will be destroyed as well. God is the Creator; we are His Creation along with all angels and demons. Praise God.
The divine purpose in the gospel of John is to present the LORD JESUS as GOD. This is the one great feature and difference from this gospel and the others. John's writings always point to the deity of Yeshua. Johns presentation of the LORD as having the divine attribute of omniscience, not to say the other gospels does not point to this but the Gospel of John it is much more frequent. WORD (Gr.Logos) portrayed by John as GOD - a Spirit of infinity, Eternal, Perfect, Almighty, Omnipotent. John was the disciple that Jesus loved and wrote John, 3 epistles and also Rev. -GOD giving him much insight to 1st age and the end. John always trying to get people to understand the beginning for if you don't understand what happen in the beginning all the way back in 1st earth age, you cant understand whats happening in this age. The time Satan fell from grace and convinced 1/3 of GODS created souls to fallow him. The 3 epistles of John indicate the writing was from a earlier time then gospel of John
Here and :2 supply (of the aions=ages) for the Logos then "was" and the aions were prepared by HIM (Hebrew. 1:2, 11:3
acts 11:15) supply (of our ministry) 2:4; In Phillipians 4:15 supply the proclamation of the gospel. was here- implying already pre-existed. Creation not mentioned until :3
Word had no beginning John 1:3, 17:5, 1 John 1:1, Ephesians 1:4, Proverbs 8:23, Psalms 90:2, John 8:58. not the same was as in :14
the Word Gr. Logos. As the spoken Word reveals the invisible thought, as the living Word reveals the invisible GOD. John 1:18
the (artical) designates "the Word" as the subject. "the Word"
I'm responding to your reply without reading any of the responses, so my thoughts will stay focused. Just incase there's repeating._..
Being you're still alive, it's not final judgement: Matthew 4:17, Acts 17:30, 2Peter 3:9, in context read whole chapter. Psalms 48:14, Proverbs 10:12, Proverbs 13:14, Ezekiel 33:11, Ezekiel 18:32,
it could be warning from GOD: Psalms 118:18,
or attack not from GOD,: Ephesians 6:12,
Psalms 90,
Jeremiah 18:8,
Psalms 37,
You are angry because of injustice it seems: Exodus 21, Exodus 22, Leviticus 20, Numbers 35, Proverbs 8:36, Genesis 18:19, Proverbs 21:3,
Psalms 73, Jeremiah 27:7-18, Isaiah 58, Isaiah 59, Matthew 25:31-46, James 2,
Ephesians 6:10-18, Ephesian 4:26, Psalms 82:3, Ecclesiastes 5:8,
Hopefully these are helpful
I am doing well. I can type one and a half handed now since my surgery hand is regaining some dexterity. My foot is hurting, but I am sure that that will dissipate sometime this week. Don't know yet when I'll be able to walk on it. i am getting good at maneuvering around with a knee scooter. God ia healing me bit by bit. I am thankful.
I suppose post surgery is going well, seeing you have perfected one hand typing.
God Bless You!
Eternal is who He is. It was never acquired by Him from anything outside of Himself. All that we know of Him is Who He is inherently. He never can add to Himself nor detract from Himself. He never changes and is completely independent about everything He has, therefore He aquires nor requires nothing from outside of Himself, He is complete, perfect, infinite, self-existent,, in need of nothing. Pretty amazing!
1 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
17 I love them that love me, and those that seek me early shall find me.
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Proverbs 8:13
The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Proverbs 19:23
The fear of the Lord tendeth to life: and he that hath it shall abide satisfied; he shall not be visited with evil.
Job 28:28
And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
Luke 1:50
And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.
Phillipians 2:12-13
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to Will and to Do of his good pleasure.
Deuteronomy 31:6
Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them (enemies) : for the Lord thy God, he it is that goes with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
Comment: it means to honor and respect; to trust and follow God.
Mishael