GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} getting To Heaven! - In Reply on Hebrews 9 - 3 years ago
Precious friend Ed, Great Question!
First, believe God's Gospel Of Pure GRACE, and receive HIS ETERNAL Life! God's 'Simple' Will: Link
Next, at expiration {death} your "spirit/soul Depart To Be In The Presence Of The LORD" {In Heaven!} 1 Corinthians 5:6,8Philippians 1:21,23
OR:
IF The LORD "Does Not Tarry" in your lifetime, Then you Will Be "Changed Into Immortality/Incorruption To Meet HIM In the air!" 1 Corinthians 15:52-531 Thessalonians 4:16-17
To go to Judgment, IN HEAVEN! 2 Corinthians 5:1-21 Corinthians 3:6-15
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
Hello again brother Chris. As always, your thoughts give me the inspiration to explore the verses we are discussing. Thank you for stimulating my mind.
2 Corinthians 5:1-8, to me, is not reflecting the actual Rapture in and of itself, but more of Paul's expectations of his pre-Rapture and post-Rapture existence. Verse 6 - " Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:". While in this earthly body, our spirit is not in the presence of the Lord as He resides in heaven while we reside on earth. No question as to the truth of this concept. Verse 8 - " We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord". I see this as an expression of longing to exit the trials of this life and enter the rest preceding the actual spiritual entry into heaven.
Philippians 1:21-24 expresses the same as the verses above.
In both sets of verses, I do not see Paul expressing an immediate spirit in heaven event. To me, they do not say this. It is a happening that will occur with no timetable.
Your points for 2 Timothy 2:10-13 are well taken and understood. My purpose in using this scripture selection is verse 11. "It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:". To me, this verse reflects a new recognition of the timetable for the return of Christ. We will live with Him without a sense of it being immediate.
Your comment was, which is a very good observation, "an allusion to the resurrection of the body, I see it as specifically to the Promise made to those who have died to sin & self". I agree with the allusion of a resurrection, but not of the body at the rapture. First Corinthians 15:40 - "There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies". This is reflected in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52.
Thank you again brother Bill & for the clarification of that Scripture. I too have to exercise care.
I gather from your comments on 2 Corinthians 5:1-8, you apply that Scripture to the Rapture. Whereas, I see it as the physical death of a believer & the immediate transition of his spirit into the Lord's Presence (i.e. while we're alive we're not in the Lord's Presence (Heaven) - then death ought to be welcomed because it means that we no longer have to 'groan' in our burdens of mortal life). I see that the apostle longed to be taken from this Earth, yet his earthly work must go on until the Call to come Home. Also Philippians 1:21-24: Paul expressing the same.
I'm unsure whether Paul began to doubt the 'timing' of the Lord's Coming; I think he lived in expectation of it given that the last days were always in view post-Crucifixion. I do recall Peter, in 2 Peter 3:3 ff, describe the condition of those 'scoffers' who will try to nullify the Lord's Promises, by saying, "Where is the promise of his coming?" And of course, Peter proceeded to show that the Lord's Promises are certain, as they were in Noah's day, & the utter destruction of the Earth by fire in latter days. That we cannot discern the times that God alone sets. If the Lord's Coming hasn't occurred as yet, "until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in" then that has to be the Lord's Determination.
2 Timothy 2:10-13. I take in your thoughts on this, though again, I see it differently. Paul shares 4 contrasts (from the last one): if we are faithless (faith deficient), He remains faithful; if we deny Him, He will deny us; if we suffer for Him, we will reign (in triumph) with Him; if we have identified with Him (in dying to sin & the old life, even as He died for us to give us salvation), we will enjoy eternity with Him. Excuse my thoughts added here, but as much as I agree that there's allusion to the resurrection of the body, I see it as specifically to the Promise made to those who have died to sin & self.
Philippians 2:12 please notice the similarity in these verses in context Philippians 2:3-4, read Philippians 2:1-15,
Matthew 25:31-46
Proverbs 3:1-35
Isaiah 58:1-14
Jude 1:1-25
I have drawn comfort from these scriptures. Jude 1:24-25, 1 Jude 1:21,
Nahum 1:7 also in context is the bigger picture
Luke 12:32Luke 12:1-59
1 Colossians 1:10-23
Philippians 1:6
I hope these scriptures give you a bigger picture that the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY is showing us & are encouraging to you. Many more I wanted to share but deleted & held back to not overwhelm with too much reading all at once.
GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} soul & spirit depart - In Reply - 3 years ago
1 Thessalonians 5:23
Precious brother Chris says: "I cannot find a suitable answer for," and asks Great Questions:
Where does the spirit of man go? Ecclesiastes 12:7 cp James 2:26
me: Does the soul also depart? Genesis 35:18
Is there a holding place for such? And where could this place be?
1) Before The Resurrection Of The LORD JESUS CHRIST, the paradise 'hold' was in "the heart {lower parts} of the earth" Matthew 12:40Ephesians 4:9, Abraham's bosom, across a chasm from the 'torment' hold Luke 16:19-31 cp Luke 23:43
2) After The Resurrection Of The LORD JESUS CHRIST, paradise is now with The Throne Of God {Third Heaven?}, and Body Of CHRIST 'members' Immediately, upon physical death {'sleep' is the metaphor for the 'dead body'} "Depart to be WITH our Blessed God And Saviour, JESUS CHRIST!" 2 Corinthians 5:6,8Philippians 1:21,23 'Confirmed' By:
3) ...Those 'asleep In JESUS'..." {metaphor for 'resting' in JESUS}, "...Will God {JESUS} Bring With HIM!" 1 Thessalonians 4:14 At our Great GRACE Departure! 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Amen?
4) Is the "sleep/rest" UNconscious? Scripture?: Luke 16:19-31 cp Revelation 6:9-11
-------------------------
Ed Bedore says: "A proper understanding of what the Bible teaches about Hell, Sheol, Hades, and the Grave dispels confusion over what happens to the soul at the time of physical death and guards against being led astray by those teaching the false doctrines of soul-sleep, eradication of the soul, the universal reconciliation of mankind, and the annihilation of the lost.":
More can be learned from his Excellent Article about this Bible Doctrine:
Hell, Sheol, Hades, Paradise, and the Grave by W. Edward Bedore
-------------------------------------
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL "to SEE," today,?): Link
Testing "functionality" Question: I wonder IF the three letter designations for the Bible Books can be posted in FAQ for "help!" in our studies { helps us 'wordy' posters pasters pastors? somewhat when 'characters' get close to "ZERO" :) }? ie:
Since Deu 1:1 did not work? Deuteronomy 1:1Det 1:1 Dut 1:1 Dtr 1:1 ?
Phi 1:1 does not, so: Philippians 1:1; Phl 1:1; Php 1:1? Phn 1:1 ?
also Philemon 1:1 Phi 1:1 Phm 1:1 Phn 1:1 ?
Full list?:
Gen 1:1Exo 1:1Lev 1:1Num 1:1 Dtr 1:1? Jos 1:1Jud 1:1 Rut 1:1 Ruth 1:11 Sa 1:12 Sa 1:11 Ki 1:12 Ki 1:11 Ch 1:12 Ch 1:1Ezr 1:1Ezra 1:1Neh 1:1Est 1:1Esther 1:1
Job 1:1Psa 1:1 Pro 1:1 Prv 1:1 Pvb 1:1 Ecc 1:1 SoS 1:1 Son 1:1 Isa 1:1Jer 1:1Lam 1:1Eze 1:1Dan 1:1Hos 1:1 Joe 1:1 Amo 1:1 Oba 1:1 Jon 1:1Mic 1:1Nah 1:1Hab 1:1 Zep 1:1 Hag 1:1Zec 1:1Mal 1:1
Mat 1:1 Mar 1:1 Luk 1:1 Joh 1:1 Act 1:1Rom 1:11 Co 1:12 Co 1:1Gal 1:1Eph 1:1Php 1:1? Col 1:11 Th 1:12 Th 1:11 Ti 1:12 Ti 1:1Tit 1:1Phm 1:1? Heb 1:1 Jam 1:1 1 Pe 1:12 Pe 1:1 1 Jo 1:1 2 Jo 1:1 3 Jo 1:1 Jud 1:1Rev 1:1
Ok, done testing -
you may now resume back to Normal :) Hope this helps other? short-cut takers? besides me... :)
Sister glenda, may christ in us grace us with his wisdom and his understanding.
god (spirit) is sovereign; god leaves no part of his children being brought to perfection (image of god), to mans supposed free will.
we all make choices thousands of times a day; but there is always a cause that made you make that choice.
philippians 2:13 for it is god (spirit) that worketh in you both to will and to do his good pleasure.
ephesians 1:11 in whom (in christ) we also have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated (god's will and work) according to his purpose (bring sons and daughters in the glory of the father)(not left to chance and choice of man) of him who worketh all things (even you choices) after the council of his own will:
god does not even leave your believing to chance:
philippians 1:29 for it is given to you on the behalf of christ, not only to believe (the word) on him, but to suffer (in the flesh) for his (name) sake.
Brother Joe, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
John 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth.
John 9:2 And his disciples ask him, saying, who DID SIN this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
John 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man SINNED, nor his parents, but that the WORKS OF GOD should be made manifest in him.
John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgement I am come into this world, that they which SEE NOT might SEE, and they which SEE might be made BLIND.
John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If you were blind you would have NO SIN, but now you say, WE SEE, you sin remaineth.
The wages of SIN (unbelief) is DEATH, the GIFT (belief) of God is eternal LIFE.
Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is GIVEN in the behalf of Christ, not only TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but to suffer (in the flesh) for his (name) sake.
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially those that BELIEVE.
Walk in God's words not mans.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God (SPIRIT) that WORKETH IN YOU to both WILL an TO DO his good pleasure.
This says God's work in you CAUSED you to get a divorce and ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR THE GOOD of those who love the Lord.
Don't believe everything you hear from mankind's lips. I trust and believe what God says, though. Look at what is said in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. People call that event a rapture. God bless.
Amen BSP, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
You are correct; when God purposes something, it's good as done.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who WILL HAVE (God's WILL; will be done)( Matthew 6:10) ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and come to the KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH.
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour (in the WORKS OF GOD; not our work)( Colossians 1:29) and suffer reproach, because we trust ( Ezekiel 36:27) in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially those who believe ( Philippians 1:29)
1 Timothy 4:11 There things COMMAND and TEACH.
God IS NOT searching for those who want to SERVE HIM; because if it were up to flesh, NO ONE would serve him. He has already CHOSEN US ( Ephesians 1:11); he is BRINGING US TO THAT TRUTH ( Ezekiel 36:27).
Flesh WILL NOT serve GOD; it is enmity to SPIRIT ( Romans 8:7) .
God has CHOSEN (through casting the die; if you will)( Ezekiel 20:37) a select FEW to be KINGS and PRIEST ( Revelation 5:10) with HIM in his kingdom.
Those, CHOSEN TO BECOME the IMAGE of GOD ( Romans 8:29)( Ephesians 4:24), will become judges with Christ' at the resurrection of the dead, back to their flesh ( 1 Corinthians 6:2)( Revelation 2:26-27). They (the dead) will be THEN brought to TRUTH.
Isaiah 29:9 For when thy judgements are in the earth, the inhabitants WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.
None of this is a reproof to you, my brother in Christ, I am just ADDING to your comments.
Yes I believe that scripture but I believe we have a difference in interpretation.
I thought we covered it already, however I will elaborate further.
My Quote:
you've posted 2 scriptures, I will deal with Revelation 22:12-14. first.
HERE IS THE WORK.
John 6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, ( This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.)
When that's done then this happens. Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
And this. Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Furthering on.
In Revelation 22:14-15. we have 2 groups here. Verse 14 THOSE SAVED FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW, ( CHRIST BEING A CURSE for us.)
Verse 15 by its description of the group is those who NEVER Received Christ and washed by the blood. You and I was apart of that group also. Christ plus the Law didn't save us, It was Christ alone.
The 10 Commandments wasn't given to us to keep or "Try" to keep for salvation, It was given to Israel while God carried them on eagles wings to show the world it was in need of a savior. The law couldn't change the inner Man. Only the outer parts of the vessel. Here's a n example.
Mathew 23:25-26.
Burnt works, Still saved.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15.For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE.
Precious friends, 'Which' Day are we, The Body Of CHRIST 'To look, watch, and wait for'?
Please prayerfully/Carefully Consider, for Encouragement and Comfort ( 1 Thessalonians 4:18)
The Day Of CHRIST:
"Mystery" CHURCH: Designated as the "Heavenly" Day of CHRIST, Which Will Be The Day Of the consummation of our salvation (into glorification!), And, Presenting of our "rewards!" (Phi 1:6; Phi 1:10; Philippians 1:6,10, Phi 2:16; 1 Corinthians 1:8, 1 Co 3:8-15; 2 Corinthians 1:14).
Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15) From "Things That DIFFER!":
Day Of The LORD:
Israel's KINGDOM: Designated as the "Earthly" Day Of The LORD, which will be, first
of all, a day of Judgment to be followed by the establishment of the Kingdom!
( Isaiah 13:9-16, Isa 24:21-23, Isa 26:20-21, Isaiah 34:1-35:10; Isa 34; Isa 35:1-10; Ezekiel 30:3; Joel 1:15, Joe 2:1-11, Joel 2:1-11; Amos 5:16-20; Obadiah 1:15-21; Zephaniah 1:14-18; Zephaniah 14:1-21; Malachi 4:1-6; Matthew 25:31-46; Acts 2:19-21)
Precious Marva: "does god hear my prayers when I'm unable to speak, but pray silently."? Yes, God Hears all humble people who approach Him, in faith, including dumb people who cannot speak:
God Knows And Searches our hearts ( Acts 15:8; Romans 8:27), And His Spirit "Prays For us," Even when we "don't know what to pray for!" ( Romans 8:26):
God's GRACE In our infirmities:
(1) Read Romans 5:1-5, especially take note of verse 3, "we glory [rejoice] in tribulations." We are not instructed here to glory in spite of the trials of life we find ourselves in, but we are to rejoice because of them. That is to say we are to thank God for allowing times of suffering into our life. This passage of Scripture expressly states that The Lord uses the tribulations of life "to conform us to The Image Of His Son" ( Romans 8:29). To this end, He uses all things "to work together for good to them that love God, to them that are the called According To His Purpose" ( Romans 8:28). As we grow mature in The Lord, our Savior is Glorified. As believers in Jesus Christ it is given us "in behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for His Sake" ( Philippians 1:29). (Borrowed from brother Ed Bedore) My study:
(2) After Paul [our #"pattern"# for Today!] prayed 3 times for his affliction, the "Answer he Received," According To The Scriptures, Was:
"And HE [CHRIST] Said Unto me, MY GRACE Is Sufficient For thee: For MY Strength Is Made Perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory [cp] in my infirmities, that The Power Of CHRIST May Rest Upon me!" ( 2 Corinthians 12:9) cp ( 2 Corinthians 11:23-30)
Sister Christi, may CHRIST in us grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
You can NEVER do anything for God; YOU BECOME ONE WITH HIM, he is everything; SPIRIT, LIFE and TRUTH, he needs nothing or no one.
Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
He came To GIVE and TO DO everything; SPIRIT, LIFE and TRUTH, for us.
He doesn't do this because of who we are; he does it because of who HE IS, our FAITHFUL Father.
He is CREATING sons and daughters in HIS IMAGE; Spirit, Life and Truth.
Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy SPIRIT, they are created, thou renewest the face of the earth.
1 Peter 1:23 ....You are BORN AGAIN (created) by the WORD(S) (SPIRIT, LIFE and TRUTH) of God ....
Isaiah 63:9 In all their (creations) affliction he (Christ) was afflicted, and the angel (Christ) of his (the Father's) presence SAVED them (creation): in his (the Father's) love and in his (the Father's) pity he (the Father; through Christ, the angel of the Father's presence) SAVED them (creation); and he (the Father through Christ) bare them (creation), and CARRIED them (creation) all the days of old.
BELIEVE
Philippians 1:29 For unto US it is GIVEN in the behalf of Christ (Spirit, Truth and Life), not only to BELIEVE ON HIM (Spirit, Truth and Life), but also to suffer (in the flesh) for his (name) sake.
1 Corinthians 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another (no one, we are all alike)? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive (nothing, all is a gift (given) of God)? now if thou didst receive (be given) it, why dost thou glory, as if thou didst not receive (be given) it?
Brother Leonard, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
John 15:16 You have not chosen me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU, and ordained you ...
Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is GIVEN in the behalf of Christ, not ONLY TO BELIEVE on him, but also to suffer (in the flesh) for his (name) sake.
Ephesians 2:10 For we (the pot) are his (the potter's) workmanship, CREATED in Christ JESUS....
Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD (SPIRIT) that WORKETH IN US both TO WILL (his will becomes our will, only truth reveals this; otherwise, we incorrectly believe it is OUR FREE WILL) and TO DO his good pleasure.
Ephesians 1:11 In whom we also have obtained an INHERITANCE, being predestinated according to the PURPOSE of him who WORKETH ALL THINGS after the council of HIS WILL.
Psalms 92:4 For thou, LORD, has made me glad through THY WORK: I will triumph in the WORKS of THY HANDS.
Psalms 92:5 O LORD, how great are THY WORKS! and thy thoughts are very deep.
Psalms 92:6 A brutish man (beast) knoweth not; neither doth a FOOL understand this.
We are ONLY the pot, pots are made to HOLD something. We were made to hold GOD (SPIRIT).
The SPIRIT does ALL THE WORK.
Colossians 1:27 ....this mystery.... CHRIST IN US (the pot) .....
A few further comments on your specific scripture that you presented.
I originally quoted: Revelation 22:12-14. Your answer is: John 6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, ( This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.)
I will agree with you " that we must believe on him whom he hath sent - Jesus." I believe this scripture! So, if we are to believe in Jesus we should also believe what he is telling us numerous times throughout the bible that we must produce good work and good fruit, and we will ultimately be judged accordingly as in:
Revelation 22:12
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Do you believe this scripture?
On to your other scripture: Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: And this. Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
I believe and agree with the scripture that you quoted in Philippians! God will work within the faithful believer to help to bring about good work/and produce good fruit.
But in the end it is up to the believer who still has "free will" to work toward their salvation by being faithful to Jesus and God's Commandments and by producing the good work that is required throughout scripture.
God Bless.
When that's done then this happens. Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: And this. Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh
quoting you: "Yes, we need to commit as Christians to walk with Christ and are instructed to in many various scripture throughout the bible." WHERE DID YOU GET THE IDEA I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THAT?
The portion you pulled out of my comment was the first sentence of part 2. You should have considered the 1st sentence of part 1 as well then we would be keeping the discussion in a direct orderly fashion.
Here is the opening sentence of part 1. Is our atonement forever or once Christ freed us it's up to us to Atone for ourselves? Here is part 2. Some would argue once Christ saved us it's up to us to remain saved. My question to that group is can you do that and How? The emphasis here is if Christ offered the perfect sacrifice "ONCE" and for all to atone for our sins, If one believes the atonement isn't once and for all and sins again "which we all do"
How do he re-atone himself when there is no more sacrifice? Can he offer Good works when works of the law could never cleans you. Brother Dan I posted a lot of Scripture that you seem to bypass, If those scriptures doesn't mean what I seem to believe why don't you start off with each one of them and tell us what they do mean.
you've posted 2 scriptures, I will deal with Revelation 22:12-14. first.
HERE IS THE WORK.
John 6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, ( This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.)
When that's done then this happens. Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: And this. Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
NOW 1 JOHN 2:3-6. This is not the 10 commandments, If so consider Galatians 5:3-4. and if you are under the law you'll need the temple built to do vain sacrifices that could never save.
Some would argue once Christ saved us it's up to us to remain saved. My question to that group is can you do that and How?
By doing what wasn't accepted in the Law? Can self righteousness clean evil thoughts? If you refuse the only complete sacrifice and insist sanctification is left up to you, Can you present yourself as the perfect covering/Atonement? In this erred thinking you're misunderstanding what HID IN CHRIST MEANS AND ATONEMENT.
There's some believe Christ died for our sins but we want know if we are saved until we are judged. We'll that don't sound like this group have faith in Christ or their methods of continuous self reconciliation.
And without faith we cannot please God.
I believe in the keeping power and advocate mentioned in the previous scriptures given in Part 1.
Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 2:12-13. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
FOR IT IS GOD WHICH WORKETH IN YOU BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE.
It is God in you that ( WILLS ) you to work out your own salvation and to do of his good pleasure.
PS. This is a Message on Sanctification by the Spirit and fruit barring which follows Salvation.
GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} - In Reply - 3 years ago
Part II "Do we have 'authority' to raise the dead?" IF God's Will is for that, then HE "Will raise the dead," be we do not have the 'authority' as did the apostles ONLY {see Previous post...}
What is God's Program for today?:
God's GRACE In our infirmities
(1) Read Romans 5:1-5, especially take note of verse 3, "we glory [rejoice] in tribulations." We are not instructed here to glory in spite of the trials of life we find ourselves in, but we are to rejoice because of them. That is to say we are to thank God for allowing times of suffering into our life. This passage of Scripture expressly states that The Lord uses the tribulations of life "to conform us to The Image Of His Son" ( Romans 8:29).
To this end, He uses all things "to work together for good to them that love God, to them that are the called According To His Purpose" ( Romans 8:28). As we grow mature in The Lord, our Savior is Glorified. As believers in Jesus Christ it is given us "in behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for His Sake" ( Philippians 1:29). (Borrowed from brother Ed Bedore) My own study:
(2) After Paul [our #"pattern"# for Today!] prayed 3 times for his affliction, the "Answer he Received," According To The Scriptures, Was:
"And HE [CHRIST] Said Unto me, MY GRACE Is Sufficient For thee: For MY Strength Is Made Perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory [cp] in my infirmities, that The Power Of CHRIST May Rest Upon me!" ( 2 Corinthians 12:9) cp ( 2 Corinthians 11:23-30)
"God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided," Lets God "Say It":
Part III
The Second 'prophesied' Coming
Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15) From Things That DIFFER:
The PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure, According to TheHeavenly'Mystery!':
(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From Heaven! ( Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel, And With The Trump of God! ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16)
3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will BringWithHim {those who Were With Him In Heaven},partOf His Own, those who are "asleep In JESUS!" ( 2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13)
(4) CHRIST Descends WithOnearchangel, Will resurrect those asleep{in 3)}First, and Then, we "which are alive and remain," {which Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all "incorruptible, And Caught Up" together to meet The LORD in the air {NOT "all the way to the earth!"}, in the "twinkling of an eye!" ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52-53)
(5) CHRIST "Gathers His Body" To HIMSELF, to Take them To Heaven {OPPOSITE of earth}... ( 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1, 2; Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18)
6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body, By The Head Himself!... ( Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12; 1 Corinthians 3:7-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25)
GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} - In Reply - 3 years ago
Precious friend, Sara, here is God's Truth for "when we, Washed In JESUS' Precious BLOOD, {Therefore, not "dirty"} die" = Departure Truth:
"Now He that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us The Earnest of The Spirit. Therefore we are always Confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from The LORD: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)We are Confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present With The LORD!" ( 2 Corinthians 5:5-8) Amen? Paul further teaches:
"For to me to live is Christ, and to die IS GAIN!" ( Philippians 1:21)
"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be With Christ; which IS FAR BETTER!"( Philippians 1:23) Hallelujah?
Then we which are alive and remain Shall Be Caught Up together with them in the clouds, to meet The LORD in the air: and so shall we ever be with The LORD!" ( 1 Thessalonians 4:17):
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory...But thanks be to God, Which Giveth us the victory through our LORD JESUS CHRIST!" ( 1 Corinthians 15:51-57)
Amen? Hallelujah! Praise HIS Holy Name!!
Precious friend, Sara, Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
GRACE_ambassador {ChrisE} on 2 Corinthians 12:9 - 3 years ago
Luke Thompson on 2 Corinthians 12:9: "Gorgeous, as are all others. thank you dear loving LORD!!!!"
Amen, Precious brother Luke. Here is a little more of the "Gorgeous" All Others:
God's GRACE In our infirmities
(1) Read Romans 5:1-5, especially take note of verse 3, "we glory [rejoice] in tribulations." We are not instructed here to glory in spite of the trials of life we find ourselves in, but we are to rejoice because of them. That is to say we are to thank God for allowing times of suffering into our life. This passage of Scripture expressly states that The Lord uses the tribulations of life "to conform us to The Image Of His Son" ( Romans 8:29). To this end, He uses all things "to work together for good to them that love God, to them that are the called According To His Purpose" ( Romans 8:28). As we grow mature in The Lord, our Savior is Glorified. As believers in Jesus Christ it is given us "in behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for His Sake" ( Philippians 1:29). (Borrowed from brother Ed Bedore) My study:
(2) After Paul [our #"pattern"# for Today!] prayed 3 times for his affliction, the "Answer he Received," According To The Scriptures, Was:
"And HE [CHRIST] Said Unto me, MY GRACE Is Sufficient For thee: For MY Strength Is Made Perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory [cp] in my infirmities, that The Power Of CHRIST May Rest Upon me!" ( 2 Corinthians 12:9) cp ( 2 Corinthians 11:23-30)
Paul the Apostle to the Philippians, abbreviation Philippians, eleventh book of the New Testament, written by St. Paul the Apostle to the Christian congregation he had established in Philippi. It was penned while he was in prison, probably at Rome or Ephesus, about 62 ce.
Hi Marcelo , it's called Phillipians because it was written to the church or rather congregation at Phillipi in the same way that Galatians was written to the Christians in Galatia .
Hi Marcelo Vega Each of the church Epistles are addressed to the Fellowships in the specific areas Paul preached at Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Phillippi. Collossae, Thessalonica.
First, believe God's Gospel Of Pure GRACE, and receive HIS ETERNAL Life! God's 'Simple' Will: Link
Next, at expiration {death} your "spirit/soul Depart To Be In The Presence Of The LORD" {In Heaven!} 1 Corinthians 5:6,8 Philippians 1:21,23
OR:
IF The LORD "Does Not Tarry" in your lifetime, Then you Will Be "Changed Into Immortality/Incorruption To Meet HIM In the air!" 1 Corinthians 15:52-53 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
To go to Judgment, IN HEAVEN! 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 1 Corinthians 3:6-15
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL "to SEE," today,? )
2 Corinthians 5:1-8, to me, is not reflecting the actual Rapture in and of itself, but more of Paul's expectations of his pre-Rapture and post-Rapture existence. Verse 6 - " Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:". While in this earthly body, our spirit is not in the presence of the Lord as He resides in heaven while we reside on earth. No question as to the truth of this concept. Verse 8 - " We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord". I see this as an expression of longing to exit the trials of this life and enter the rest preceding the actual spiritual entry into heaven.
Philippians 1:21-24 expresses the same as the verses above.
In both sets of verses, I do not see Paul expressing an immediate spirit in heaven event. To me, they do not say this. It is a happening that will occur with no timetable.
Your points for 2 Timothy 2:10-13 are well taken and understood. My purpose in using this scripture selection is verse 11. "It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:". To me, this verse reflects a new recognition of the timetable for the return of Christ. We will live with Him without a sense of it being immediate.
Your comment was, which is a very good observation, "an allusion to the resurrection of the body, I see it as specifically to the Promise made to those who have died to sin & self". I agree with the allusion of a resurrection, but not of the body at the rapture. First Corinthians 15:40 - "There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies". This is reflected in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52.
Until our next chat, brother in Chr
I gather from your comments on 2 Corinthians 5:1-8, you apply that Scripture to the Rapture. Whereas, I see it as the physical death of a believer & the immediate transition of his spirit into the Lord's Presence (i.e. while we're alive we're not in the Lord's Presence (Heaven) - then death ought to be welcomed because it means that we no longer have to 'groan' in our burdens of mortal life). I see that the apostle longed to be taken from this Earth, yet his earthly work must go on until the Call to come Home. Also Philippians 1:21-24: Paul expressing the same.
I'm unsure whether Paul began to doubt the 'timing' of the Lord's Coming; I think he lived in expectation of it given that the last days were always in view post-Crucifixion. I do recall Peter, in 2 Peter 3:3 ff, describe the condition of those 'scoffers' who will try to nullify the Lord's Promises, by saying, "Where is the promise of his coming?" And of course, Peter proceeded to show that the Lord's Promises are certain, as they were in Noah's day, & the utter destruction of the Earth by fire in latter days. That we cannot discern the times that God alone sets. If the Lord's Coming hasn't occurred as yet, "until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in" then that has to be the Lord's Determination.
2 Timothy 2:10-13. I take in your thoughts on this, though again, I see it differently. Paul shares 4 contrasts (from the last one): if we are faithless (faith deficient), He remains faithful; if we deny Him, He will deny us; if we suffer for Him, we will reign (in triumph) with Him; if we have identified with Him (in dying to sin & the old life, even as He died for us to give us salvation), we will enjoy eternity with Him. Excuse my thoughts added here, but as much as I agree that there's allusion to the resurrection of the body, I see it as specifically to the Promise made to those who have died to sin & self.
Man makes CHOICES thousands or time a day; but those CHOICES have a CAUSE:
Philippians 2:13 For it is God that worketh in you TO WILL and TO DO ....
They is never an effect without there first being a CAUSE.
God is sovereign and the CAUSE of everything.
Romans 2:4 Man repents be CAUSE of the goodness of God
Philippians 1:29 You BELIEVE be CAUSE Christ CAUSES you to believe.
Galatians 1:20 You have faith be CAUSE Christ GIVES you HIS faith.
John 6:44 No one comes to Christ with a CAUSE, the Father draws that person to Christ.
God CAUSES and DOES everything, man is the benefactor of CAUSES of GOD.
Colossians 1:17 ...and by him all thing consist.... even you CHOICES.
John 15:5 ...you can of yourself DO NOTHING...
Matthew 25:31-46
Proverbs 3:1-35
Isaiah 58:1-14
Jude 1:1-25
I have drawn comfort from these scriptures. Jude 1:24-25, 1 Jude 1:21,
Nahum 1:7 also in context is the bigger picture
Luke 12:32 Luke 12:1-59
1 Colossians 1:10-23
Philippians 1:6
I hope these scriptures give you a bigger picture that the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY is showing us & are encouraging to you. Many more I wanted to share but deleted & held back to not overwhelm with too much reading all at once.
Precious brother Chris says: "I cannot find a suitable answer for," and asks Great Questions:
Where does the spirit of man go? Ecclesiastes 12:7 cp James 2:26
me: Does the soul also depart? Genesis 35:18
Is there a holding place for such? And where could this place be?
1) Before The Resurrection Of The LORD JESUS CHRIST, the paradise 'hold' was in "the heart {lower parts} of the earth" Matthew 12:40 Ephesians 4:9, Abraham's bosom, across a chasm from the 'torment' hold Luke 16:19-31 cp Luke 23:43
2) After The Resurrection Of The LORD JESUS CHRIST, paradise is now with The Throne Of God {Third Heaven?}, and Body Of CHRIST 'members' Immediately, upon physical death {'sleep' is the metaphor for the 'dead body'} "Depart to be WITH our Blessed God And Saviour, JESUS CHRIST!" 2 Corinthians 5:6,8 Philippians 1:21,23 'Confirmed' By:
3) ...Those 'asleep In JESUS'..." {metaphor for 'resting' in JESUS}, "...Will God {JESUS} Bring With HIM!" 1 Thessalonians 4:14 At our Great GRACE Departure! 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Amen?
4) Is the "sleep/rest" UNconscious? Scripture?: Luke 16:19-31 cp Revelation 6:9-11
-------------------------
Ed Bedore says: "A proper understanding of what the Bible teaches about Hell, Sheol, Hades, and the Grave dispels confusion over what happens to the soul at the time of physical death and guards against being led astray by those teaching the false doctrines of soul-sleep, eradication of the soul, the universal reconciliation of mankind, and the annihilation of the lost.":
More can be learned from his Excellent Article about this Bible Doctrine:
Hell, Sheol, Hades, Paradise, and the Grave by W. Edward Bedore
-------------------------------------
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, For ALL "to SEE," today,?): Link
Since Deu 1:1 did not work? Deuteronomy 1:1 Det 1:1 Dut 1:1 Dtr 1:1 ?
Phi 1:1 does not, so: Philippians 1:1; Phl 1:1; Php 1:1? Phn 1:1 ?
also Philemon 1:1 Phi 1:1 Phm 1:1 Phn 1:1 ?
Full list?:
Gen 1:1 Exo 1:1 Lev 1:1 Num 1:1 Dtr 1:1? Jos 1:1 Jud 1:1 Rut 1:1 Ruth 1:1 1 Sa 1:1 2 Sa 1:1 1 Ki 1:1 2 Ki 1:1 1 Ch 1:1 2 Ch 1:1 Ezr 1:1 Ezra 1:1 Neh 1:1 Est 1:1 Esther 1:1
Job 1:1 Psa 1:1 Pro 1:1 Prv 1:1 Pvb 1:1 Ecc 1:1 SoS 1:1 Son 1:1 Isa 1:1 Jer 1:1 Lam 1:1 Eze 1:1 Dan 1:1 Hos 1:1 Joe 1:1 Amo 1:1 Oba 1:1 Jon 1:1 Mic 1:1 Nah 1:1 Hab 1:1 Zep 1:1 Hag 1:1 Zec 1:1 Mal 1:1
Mat 1:1 Mar 1:1 Luk 1:1 Joh 1:1 Act 1:1 Rom 1:1 1 Co 1:1 2 Co 1:1 Gal 1:1 Eph 1:1 Php 1:1? Col 1:1 1 Th 1:1 2 Th 1:1 1 Ti 1:1 2 Ti 1:1 Tit 1:1 Phm 1:1? Heb 1:1 Jam 1:1 1 Pe 1:1 2 Pe 1:1 1 Jo 1:1 2 Jo 1:1 3 Jo 1:1 Jud 1:1 Rev 1:1
Ok, done testing -
you may now resume back to Normal :) Hope this helps other? short-cut takers? besides me... :)
God Bless...
god (spirit) is sovereign; god leaves no part of his children being brought to perfection (image of god), to mans supposed free will.
we all make choices thousands of times a day; but there is always a cause that made you make that choice.
philippians 2:13 for it is god (spirit) that worketh in you both to will and to do his good pleasure.
ephesians 1:11 in whom (in christ) we also have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated (god's will and work) according to his purpose (bring sons and daughters in the glory of the father)(not left to chance and choice of man) of him who worketh all things (even you choices) after the council of his own will:
god does not even leave your believing to chance:
philippians 1:29 for it is given to you on the behalf of christ, not only to believe (the word) on him, but to suffer (in the flesh) for his (name) sake.
John 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man blind from his birth.
John 9:2 And his disciples ask him, saying, who DID SIN this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
John 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man SINNED, nor his parents, but that the WORKS OF GOD should be made manifest in him.
John 9:39 And Jesus said, For judgement I am come into this world, that they which SEE NOT might SEE, and they which SEE might be made BLIND.
John 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If you were blind you would have NO SIN, but now you say, WE SEE, you sin remaineth.
The wages of SIN (unbelief) is DEATH, the GIFT (belief) of God is eternal LIFE.
Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is GIVEN in the behalf of Christ, not only TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but to suffer (in the flesh) for his (name) sake.
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially those that BELIEVE.
Walk in God's words not mans.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God (SPIRIT) that WORKETH IN YOU to both WILL an TO DO his good pleasure.
This says God's work in you CAUSED you to get a divorce and ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR THE GOOD of those who love the Lord.
His ways are higher than our ways.
An unsaved person told me yesterday he was told "there is nothing like rapture" Is it true?
You are replying to a comment by "Victor Anyanwu"
Hello Victor,
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
verse 16: these Dead in Christ shall rise first. for example:
1. ( John 11:11) Lazarus he died again
2. ( Acts 7:55,59, 60) Stephen after saying this, he fell asleep in death. (the vision he saw was in heaven)
3. ( 1 Corinthians 15:6) 500 seen Jesus appear after his death. but some of
them died.
4. Some of Jesus apostles died of old age, most died under roman oppression (by the "ad." "c.e." Jews)
(they were put in prison like Paul as you brought out in Philippians 1), some died in captivity.
Verse 17: Those alive or remain will like Jesus will go to heaven.
( Revelation 14:3/ 144,000). notice the first died. if the second is to be caught up together with them.
they will have to die from flesh...to be taken from earth. ( Acts 1:9,10; Revelation 20)
so no... rapture is not a word in the bible. when Jesus was impaled the scripture said
after that his spirit ( Matthew 27:50 invisible/ john 4:24) yielded up. no human can see the spirit.
( Jas. 2:26)
Hopefully this helps
Hello Victor,
Don't believe everything you hear from mankind's lips. I trust and believe what God says, though. Look at what is said in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. People call that event a rapture. God bless.
You are correct; when God purposes something, it's good as done.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who WILL HAVE (God's WILL; will be done)( Matthew 6:10) ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and come to the KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH.
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour (in the WORKS OF GOD; not our work)( Colossians 1:29) and suffer reproach, because we trust ( Ezekiel 36:27) in the living God, who is the SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially those who believe ( Philippians 1:29)
1 Timothy 4:11 There things COMMAND and TEACH.
God IS NOT searching for those who want to SERVE HIM; because if it were up to flesh, NO ONE would serve him. He has already CHOSEN US ( Ephesians 1:11); he is BRINGING US TO THAT TRUTH ( Ezekiel 36:27).
Flesh WILL NOT serve GOD; it is enmity to SPIRIT ( Romans 8:7) .
God has CHOSEN (through casting the die; if you will)( Ezekiel 20:37) a select FEW to be KINGS and PRIEST ( Revelation 5:10) with HIM in his kingdom.
Those, CHOSEN TO BECOME the IMAGE of GOD ( Romans 8:29)( Ephesians 4:24), will become judges with Christ' at the resurrection of the dead, back to their flesh ( 1 Corinthians 6:2)( Revelation 2:26-27). They (the dead) will be THEN brought to TRUTH.
Isaiah 29:9 For when thy judgements are in the earth, the inhabitants WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.
None of this is a reproof to you, my brother in Christ, I am just ADDING to your comments.
Yes I believe that scripture but I believe we have a difference in interpretation.
I thought we covered it already, however I will elaborate further.
My Quote:
you've posted 2 scriptures, I will deal with Revelation 22:12-14. first.
HERE IS THE WORK.
John 6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, ( This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.)
When that's done then this happens. Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
And this. Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Furthering on.
In Revelation 22:14-15. we have 2 groups here. Verse 14 THOSE SAVED FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW, ( CHRIST BEING A CURSE for us.)
Verse 15 by its description of the group is those who NEVER Received Christ and washed by the blood. You and I was apart of that group also. Christ plus the Law didn't save us, It was Christ alone.
The 10 Commandments wasn't given to us to keep or "Try" to keep for salvation, It was given to Israel while God carried them on eagles wings to show the world it was in need of a savior. The law couldn't change the inner Man. Only the outer parts of the vessel. Here's a n example.
Mathew 23:25-26.
Burnt works, Still saved.
1 Corinthians 3:11-15.For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, HE SHALL SUFFER LOSS: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; YET SO AS BY FIRE.
G.B.
Please prayerfully/Carefully Consider, for Encouragement and Comfort ( 1 Thessalonians 4:18)
The Day Of CHRIST:
"Mystery" CHURCH: Designated as the "Heavenly" Day of CHRIST, Which Will Be The Day Of the consummation of our salvation (into glorification!), And, Presenting of our "rewards!" (Phi 1:6; Phi 1:10; Philippians 1:6,10, Phi 2:16; 1 Corinthians 1:8, 1 Co 3:8-15; 2 Corinthians 1:14).
Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15) From "Things That DIFFER!":
Day Of The LORD:
Israel's KINGDOM: Designated as the "Earthly" Day Of The LORD, which will be, first
of all, a day of Judgment to be followed by the establishment of the Kingdom!
( Isaiah 13:9-16, Isa 24:21-23, Isa 26:20-21, Isaiah 34:1-35:10; Isa 34; Isa 35:1-10; Ezekiel 30:3; Joel 1:15, Joe 2:1-11, Joel 2:1-11; Amos 5:16-20; Obadiah 1:15-21; Zephaniah 1:14-18; Zephaniah 14:1-21; Malachi 4:1-6; Matthew 25:31-46; Acts 2:19-21)
Portion of C.R. Stam Article: Link
or:
(Full Article: "The Day of the Lord -- What Is It?" - by Pastor Cornelius R. Stam)
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship {Romans - Philemon}, today?)
God Knows And Searches our hearts ( Acts 15:8; Romans 8:27), And His Spirit "Prays For us," Even when we "don't know what to pray for!" ( Romans 8:26):
God's GRACE In our infirmities:
(1) Read Romans 5:1-5, especially take note of verse 3, "we glory [rejoice] in tribulations." We are not instructed here to glory in spite of the trials of life we find ourselves in, but we are to rejoice because of them. That is to say we are to thank God for allowing times of suffering into our life. This passage of Scripture expressly states that The Lord uses the tribulations of life "to conform us to The Image Of His Son" ( Romans 8:29). To this end, He uses all things "to work together for good to them that love God, to them that are the called According To His Purpose" ( Romans 8:28). As we grow mature in The Lord, our Savior is Glorified. As believers in Jesus Christ it is given us "in behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for His Sake" ( Philippians 1:29). (Borrowed from brother Ed Bedore) My study:
(2) After Paul [our #"pattern"# for Today!] prayed 3 times for his affliction, the "Answer he Received," According To The Scriptures, Was:
"And HE [CHRIST] Said Unto me, MY GRACE Is Sufficient For thee: For MY Strength Is Made Perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory [cp] in my infirmities, that The Power Of CHRIST May Rest Upon me!" ( 2 Corinthians 12:9) cp ( 2 Corinthians 11:23-30)
(3) Compare With GRACE Scriptures: ( Romans 5:1-5) ( Romans 8:18) ( Romans 8:26-29) ( 1 Corinthians 10:13) ( 2 Corinthians 1:3-4) ( 2 Corinthians 4:17) ( 2 Corinthians 12:9) ( Philippians 3:21)
#"pattern"# = Paul = ( 1 Timothy 1:16) ( Philippians 4:9)
( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery fellowship, today?)
Please Be Encouraged!
You can NEVER do anything for God; YOU BECOME ONE WITH HIM, he is everything; SPIRIT, LIFE and TRUTH, he needs nothing or no one.
Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
He came To GIVE and TO DO everything; SPIRIT, LIFE and TRUTH, for us.
He doesn't do this because of who we are; he does it because of who HE IS, our FAITHFUL Father.
He is CREATING sons and daughters in HIS IMAGE; Spirit, Life and Truth.
Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy SPIRIT, they are created, thou renewest the face of the earth.
1 Peter 1:23 ....You are BORN AGAIN (created) by the WORD(S) (SPIRIT, LIFE and TRUTH) of God ....
Isaiah 63:9 In all their (creations) affliction he (Christ) was afflicted, and the angel (Christ) of his (the Father's) presence SAVED them (creation): in his (the Father's) love and in his (the Father's) pity he (the Father; through Christ, the angel of the Father's presence) SAVED them (creation); and he (the Father through Christ) bare them (creation), and CARRIED them (creation) all the days of old.
BELIEVE
Philippians 1:29 For unto US it is GIVEN in the behalf of Christ (Spirit, Truth and Life), not only to BELIEVE ON HIM (Spirit, Truth and Life), but also to suffer (in the flesh) for his (name) sake.
1 Corinthians 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another (no one, we are all alike)? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive (nothing, all is a gift (given) of God)? now if thou didst receive (be given) it, why dost thou glory, as if thou didst not receive (be given) it?
John 15:16 You have not chosen me, but I HAVE CHOSEN YOU, and ordained you ...
Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is GIVEN in the behalf of Christ, not ONLY TO BELIEVE on him, but also to suffer (in the flesh) for his (name) sake.
Ephesians 2:10 For we (the pot) are his (the potter's) workmanship, CREATED in Christ JESUS....
Philippians 2:13 For it is GOD (SPIRIT) that WORKETH IN US both TO WILL (his will becomes our will, only truth reveals this; otherwise, we incorrectly believe it is OUR FREE WILL) and TO DO his good pleasure.
Ephesians 1:11 In whom we also have obtained an INHERITANCE, being predestinated according to the PURPOSE of him who WORKETH ALL THINGS after the council of HIS WILL.
Psalms 92:4 For thou, LORD, has made me glad through THY WORK: I will triumph in the WORKS of THY HANDS.
Psalms 92:5 O LORD, how great are THY WORKS! and thy thoughts are very deep.
Psalms 92:6 A brutish man (beast) knoweth not; neither doth a FOOL understand this.
We are ONLY the pot, pots are made to HOLD something. We were made to hold GOD (SPIRIT).
The SPIRIT does ALL THE WORK.
Colossians 1:27 ....this mystery.... CHRIST IN US (the pot) .....
A few further comments on your specific scripture that you presented.
I originally quoted: Revelation 22:12-14. Your answer is: John 6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, ( This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.)
I will agree with you " that we must believe on him whom he hath sent - Jesus." I believe this scripture! So, if we are to believe in Jesus we should also believe what he is telling us numerous times throughout the bible that we must produce good work and good fruit, and we will ultimately be judged accordingly as in:
Revelation 22:12
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Do you believe this scripture?
On to your other scripture: Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: And this. Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
I believe and agree with the scripture that you quoted in Philippians! God will work within the faithful believer to help to bring about good work/and produce good fruit.
But in the end it is up to the believer who still has "free will" to work toward their salvation by being faithful to Jesus and God's Commandments and by producing the good work that is required throughout scripture.
God Bless.
When that's done then this happens. Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: And this. Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh
quoting you: "Yes, we need to commit as Christians to walk with Christ and are instructed to in many various scripture throughout the bible." WHERE DID YOU GET THE IDEA I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THAT?
The portion you pulled out of my comment was the first sentence of part 2. You should have considered the 1st sentence of part 1 as well then we would be keeping the discussion in a direct orderly fashion.
Here is the opening sentence of part 1. Is our atonement forever or once Christ freed us it's up to us to Atone for ourselves? Here is part 2. Some would argue once Christ saved us it's up to us to remain saved. My question to that group is can you do that and How? The emphasis here is if Christ offered the perfect sacrifice "ONCE" and for all to atone for our sins, If one believes the atonement isn't once and for all and sins again "which we all do"
How do he re-atone himself when there is no more sacrifice? Can he offer Good works when works of the law could never cleans you. Brother Dan I posted a lot of Scripture that you seem to bypass, If those scriptures doesn't mean what I seem to believe why don't you start off with each one of them and tell us what they do mean.
you've posted 2 scriptures, I will deal with Revelation 22:12-14. first.
HERE IS THE WORK.
John 6:28-29. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, ( This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.)
When that's done then this happens. Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: And this. Philippians 2:13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
NOW 1 JOHN 2:3-6. This is not the 10 commandments, If so consider Galatians 5:3-4. and if you are under the law you'll need the temple built to do vain sacrifices that could never save.
God bless.
We follow him because of HIS WORK:
Ezekiel 36:27
Philippians 1:29
Some would argue once Christ saved us it's up to us to remain saved. My question to that group is can you do that and How?
By doing what wasn't accepted in the Law? Can self righteousness clean evil thoughts? If you refuse the only complete sacrifice and insist sanctification is left up to you, Can you present yourself as the perfect covering/Atonement? In this erred thinking you're misunderstanding what HID IN CHRIST MEANS AND ATONEMENT.
There's some believe Christ died for our sins but we want know if we are saved until we are judged. We'll that don't sound like this group have faith in Christ or their methods of continuous self reconciliation.
And without faith we cannot please God.
I believe in the keeping power and advocate mentioned in the previous scriptures given in Part 1.
Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 2:12-13. Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
FOR IT IS GOD WHICH WORKETH IN YOU BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE.
It is God in you that ( WILLS ) you to work out your own salvation and to do of his good pleasure.
PS. This is a Message on Sanctification by the Spirit and fruit barring which follows Salvation.
God bless.
What is God's Program for today?:
God's GRACE In our infirmities
(1) Read Romans 5:1-5, especially take note of verse 3, "we glory [rejoice] in tribulations." We are not instructed here to glory in spite of the trials of life we find ourselves in, but we are to rejoice because of them. That is to say we are to thank God for allowing times of suffering into our life. This passage of Scripture expressly states that The Lord uses the tribulations of life "to conform us to The Image Of His Son" ( Romans 8:29).
To this end, He uses all things "to work together for good to them that love God, to them that are the called According To His Purpose" ( Romans 8:28). As we grow mature in The Lord, our Savior is Glorified. As believers in Jesus Christ it is given us "in behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for His Sake" ( Philippians 1:29). (Borrowed from brother Ed Bedore) My own study:
(2) After Paul [our #"pattern"# for Today!] prayed 3 times for his affliction, the "Answer he Received," According To The Scriptures, Was:
"And HE [CHRIST] Said Unto me, MY GRACE Is Sufficient For thee: For MY Strength Is Made Perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory [cp] in my infirmities, that The Power Of CHRIST May Rest Upon me!" ( 2 Corinthians 12:9) cp ( 2 Corinthians 11:23-30)
(3) Compare With GRACE Scriptures: ( Romans 5:1-5) ( Romans 8:18) ( Romans 8:26-29) ( 1 Corinthians 10:13) ( 2 Corinthians 1:3-4) ( 2 Corinthians 4:17) ( 2 Corinthians 12:9) ( Philippians 3:21)
#"pattern"# = Paul = ( 1 Timothy 1:16) ( Philippians 4:9)
Please Be RichlyEncouraged, Enlightened,Exhorted, and Edified in fellowship With Christ! ( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 = Grace/Mystery fellowship, today, ENDING in our resurrection 'from the dead'/rapture?)
Part III
The Second 'prophesied' Coming
Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15) From Things That DIFFER:
The PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure, According to TheHeavenly'Mystery!':
(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From Heaven! ( Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel, And With The Trump of God! ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16)
3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will BringWithHim {those who Were With Him In Heaven},partOf His Own, those who are "asleep In JESUS!" ( 2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13)
(4) CHRIST Descends WithOnearchangel, Will resurrect those asleep{in 3)}First, and Then, we "which are alive and remain," {which Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all "incorruptible, And Caught Up" together to meet The LORD in the air {NOT "all the way to the earth!"}, in the "twinkling of an eye!" ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52-53)
(5) CHRIST "Gathers His Body" To HIMSELF, to Take them To Heaven {OPPOSITE of earth}... ( 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1, 2; Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18)
6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body, By The Head Himself!... ( Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12; 1 Corinthians 3:7-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10; Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25)
to be continued in:
Part IV God's PRE-TOJT Great GRACE Departure!
"Now He that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us The Earnest of The Spirit. Therefore we are always Confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from The LORD: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)We are Confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present With The LORD!" ( 2 Corinthians 5:5-8) Amen? Paul further teaches:
"For to me to live is Christ, and to die IS GAIN!" ( Philippians 1:21)
"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be With Christ; which IS FAR BETTER!"( Philippians 1:23) Hallelujah?
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OR IF "He Comes while we're alive":
Then we which are alive and remain Shall Be Caught Up together with them in the clouds, to meet The LORD in the air: and so shall we ever be with The LORD!" ( 1 Thessalonians 4:17):
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory...But thanks be to God, Which Giveth us the victory through our LORD JESUS CHRIST!" ( 1 Corinthians 15:51-57)
Amen? Hallelujah! Praise HIS Holy Name!!
Precious friend, Sara, Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
( 2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9 = Grace/Mystery 'fellowship,' today?)
Amen, Precious brother Luke. Here is a little more of the "Gorgeous" All Others:
God's GRACE In our infirmities
(1) Read Romans 5:1-5, especially take note of verse 3, "we glory [rejoice] in tribulations." We are not instructed here to glory in spite of the trials of life we find ourselves in, but we are to rejoice because of them. That is to say we are to thank God for allowing times of suffering into our life. This passage of Scripture expressly states that The Lord uses the tribulations of life "to conform us to The Image Of His Son" ( Romans 8:29). To this end, He uses all things "to work together for good to them that love God, to them that are the called According To His Purpose" ( Romans 8:28). As we grow mature in The Lord, our Savior is Glorified. As believers in Jesus Christ it is given us "in behalf of Christ, not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for His Sake" ( Philippians 1:29). (Borrowed from brother Ed Bedore) My study:
(2) After Paul [our #"pattern"# for Today!] prayed 3 times for his affliction, the "Answer he Received," According To The Scriptures, Was:
"And HE [CHRIST] Said Unto me, MY GRACE Is Sufficient For thee: For MY Strength Is Made Perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory [cp] in my infirmities, that The Power Of CHRIST May Rest Upon me!" ( 2 Corinthians 12:9) cp ( 2 Corinthians 11:23-30)
(3) Compare With GRACE Scriptures: ( Romans 5:1-5) ( Romans 8:18) ( Romans 8:26-29) ( 1 Corinthians 10:13) ( 2 Corinthians 1:3-4) ( 2 Corinthians 4:17) ( 2 Corinthians 12:9) ( Philippians 3:21)
#"pattern"# = Paul = ( 1 Timothy 1:16) ( Philippians 4:9)
Precious friends, Please be Very Encouraged In The LORD JESUS CHRIST And His Word Of Truth!