One more quote from the Bible doctrine book in the same vein:
"One should not endeavor to transpose Old Testament details into the New in a way that undermines or infringes on the tenor of the gospel.
Then again, the liberty of the New Testament should not be considered to minimize the holiness of God as set forth in the Old. Jesus did not destroy the validity of the Old Testament; He fulfilled it ( Matthew 5:17). There must be a balanced spiritual understanding of the relationship of the two testaments."
That the four corners of our hearts have equal amounts of the breath of God.
Another day another meditation: Thinking of the Holy Bible and the law and the Holy Ghost, I came across this quote that a few selected brethren in the Church of God were led to write within a book on Bible doctrines.
"Tenor is the harmony of the whole, the intent and purpose of something written or spoken. The Hebrew word from which tenor is translated gives a hint of action: "to puff: scatter into corners" (Strong's concordance). In other words, even under Moses's Law, it took the breath of God, or tenor, to scatter the Lord's dictates into the corners of the hearts of men.
It was this tenor that finally brought Saul (the unconverted Paul) to see his heart's need and pointed him to Christ
( Romans 7). Saul was "blameless" ( Philippians 3:6) concerning the statute law. But his conscience became sin-ridden when the breath of God scattered the real intent of the law into the corners of his heart. Such is the power of the law under the Holy Spirit's unction."
I am not trying to intrude in your conversation, but reading your post, I felt inclined to share something with you about your statement "I can't get my head around why Jesus would tell Mary not to touch him."
John Chapter 20 tells us that this was right after Jesus rose from the tomb. When Mary first saw Jesus, she thought He was the gardener. But after hearing His voice, she realized it was Jesus and she grabbed onto him. And Jesus said unto her, "Touch me not."
Now it is very interesting what the text says. This is one of those instances where the English text doesn't help us out much. We read Jesus saying don't touch me, and it's like what's that all about? First of all, the word "touch" is the word HAPTO, and it means to fasten. It doesn't mean to touch as in "Don't touch me, stay away from me!" It means don't fasten yourself to me. It is a Present Imperative in the Greek text which indicates that she is already doing it. She is holding on tight and not going to let go. Jesus is not saying don't touch me. He's saying stop clinging to me.
As a matter of fact, in Matthew 28:9, Matthew tells us that she had a death grip on His ankles. She was not going to let Him out of her sight again! So He wasn't telling her "Don't touch me." He was saying let go, don't cling to me, stop clinging to me.
And there was a reason for it, He says in John 20:17, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: In other words, He is saying, and you see, here is where the changeover comes. Here's where the ministry comes in.
He has now revealed Himself as the resurrected one to Mary, and she's got this grip on Him like I'm never going to let you out of my sight again, and He is telling her, "You have to let go because I have not yet gone to the Father."
This is not going to be a physical relationship where you can see me and hear me. It's going to be by faith. So it is interesting!
I hope this might give you a better understanding of why Jesus made that statement.
How very true, Bendito. As I re-read the earlier verses, the thought came to me: would a non-believer have read that verse in the same manner & with the same sensation as a believer does? Very likely, No. It would just be an historical account of the risen Jesus & verse 16 would have been glossed over.
To us who have experienced the joy of salvation, we instantly enter into the same state as Mary was in: of utter joy in seeing her beloved again, risen from the grave, death having no hold on Him. And we see & experience the risen Christ each day, every moment of the day, in all His Glory & Beauty. All praise be to Him for going to the cross for us & to the Eternal loving Father Who sent Him for our sakes.
So simply and tenderly this verse reads. Yet every time I see it I am thrilled. Tears come to my eyes, and the Glory bursts forth like the morning sun! HE'S ALIVE!
Carleton Part 1 God the Son scriptures on Genesis 14 - 3 years ago
"His name shall be called...The mighty God" Isaiah 9:6
"My Lord and my God" John 20:2
"He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest" Luke 1:32
"that Holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" Luke 1:35
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son" John 3:16
"And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God" John 1:34
"This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" Matthew 3:17
"God sent his only begotten Son into the world" 1 John 4:9
"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" Matthew 16:16
"The Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world" 1 John 4:14
"And thou shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins" Matthew 1:21
"Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world" 1 Peter 1:20
"But when the fulness of the time was to come, God sent his Son" Galatians 4:4
"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel" Isaiah 7:14
"Behold, thou shall conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name JESUS" Luke 1:31
"Then said Mary to the Angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" Luke 1:34
"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" Luke 1:35
" Thou son of David, fear not to take Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost" Matthew 1:20
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" John 1:14
"I am the bread of life....This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from Heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world" John 6:48-51
What is the motive for this campaign to discredit Jesus's divinity? Why do you celebrate when you feel you have delivered your case? Does this actually come from God, or does it actually come from the great deceiver?
Some of these comments even have a sense of pride- as if demeaning Jesus is an accomplishment to be proud of. Whomever is behind this campaign seems quite closed off to just normal, non-distorted interpreations of the Word.
Shame on you and everyone who is attacking and trying to discredit the Bible and demean Jesus. I find these posts disturbing and even sickening to think that Christians are giving into a lie so easily without question. But the truth will always expose the lie. Jesus is Lord and Jesus is divine and Jesus is the Son and Jesus is one with the Father and Holy Spirit, Jesus is the I AM, Jesus is God just as the Bible says.
Thanks for sharing your evidence. I agree with all the scriptures and believe and trust in the Bible. I don't trust your interpretion of it, however, as to arrive at such a conclusion you first have to cherrypick a few verses and ignore many verses. Secondly, the few cherrypicked have to then be interpreted in an unconventional, distorted way.
So, it sounds like you don't believe Jesus is God, despite the scripture clearly saying that in these scriptures and elsewhere: John 10:30, John 1:1, 1 John 5:7-8. Jesus is the Word and the Word is God is 100% clear to even children readers.
The first piece of evidence you used to claim He's not God is Matthew 16:15-17 saying He's the Son of God. But these aren't mutually exclusive. It sounds like you're assuming Jesus somehow can't be both God and the son of God. That's not much different than someone claiming God the Father can't be God, because He's the Father. So, I think your interpretation of this being 'evidence' that Jesus isn't God is a false assumption.
2 Corinthians 5:19 - God in Christ. That too doesn't mean Christ isn't God's son or isn't God. That involves making yet another assumption.
John 20:17 - this is your strongest piece of evidence, but again, I believe you have to make another false assumption and ignore earlier in the same book where it clearly says the Word (Jesus) was God. How can you refute that verse so easily. The Bible says Jesus is God in many places, He had the power of God to perform miracles, He died for you, and you prefer to ignore the parts of John that say He's God in favor of the part that says His father is God to draw such a conclusion. Just because you have a hard time understanding the trinity doesn't mean one must rush to such a conclusion to disregard John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:58, Titus 2:13, Matthew 1:23, etc.
One thing I do agree with you on is to not trust man's interpretation. That's why I don't trust your interpretation, but trust what the Bible says. God bless you.
OnlytruthintheworldKJV - In Reply on Luke 1 - 3 years ago
Verily, I have received this truth by revelation of my Father in heaven. The same way Peter received it and proclaimed when Jesus asked him
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
- Matthew 16:15-17
Jesus is the Son of God.
Do you see?
He's not the pagan babylonian/roman "god the son"
2 Corinthians 5:19
King James Version
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
The Holy Scriptures proclaim
God was in Christ.
Not God was Christ. Or Christ was God.
This is why Jesus told Mary after he was risen:
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God
Jesus had a Father and a God and that God was in Him and in Heaven @ the same time.
When you say Jesus was fully God you exalt the flesh and create an idol for yourself.
All the pagan religions have a trinity: starting with the original mystery of iniquity in Babylon (nimrod semiramis and tammuz) to Hinduism, greek gods, roman gods etc.
Christian's only believe in one God, the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Holy Spirit.
The verses you referenced speak nothing of a "trinity" of Gods. 1 John 5:7 is speaking of God the Father who is in heaven.
And 1 John 5:8 is speaking of the blood covenant by baptism of water and Spirit on the earth.
John 8:31-32
Trust in the word and forsake the teachings of deceived men.
To OTITW KJV. Just to clarify a couple of your references.
a. Isaiah 28:11,12: "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing..." If you read this portion of Scripture, it has nothing to do with the experience of speaking in other tongues. It has to do with the Assyrian captivity, when Ephraim (one of Joseph's sons) is particularly mentioned who would go into captivity along with Israel, because of their many sins & wicked prophets & priests. Instead of hearing the Word of God through His prophets, they would receive the Word from those "with stammering lips & another tongue", i.e. another nation & another language, implying that the Word given would also be spoken in scorn & derision to God's people. This verse has nothing to do with the spiritual gift of Tongues.
b. the 'doctrine of the Trinity'. You would have a hard time to deny the Trinity, as it was not only believed by the apostles & the early Church ( John 17:5, Matthew 28:19, John 20:28, etc), but was also believed by the early Church fathers (i.e. those who were eminent men in the post-apostolic Church, after the apostle John). Names such as Ignatius ("For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God's plan..."; "There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord."). And Polycarp ("Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal High Priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth...and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead."). And not to mention Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Origen, who all believed it. This is not an RC introduced belief.
Palm Sunday, the Passover, crucifixion, Feast of Unleavened Bread, and Resurrection day (Feast of First Fruits) all are coming soon. Jesus fulfilled the old, and confirmed the new. Jesus fulfilled the Passover, the blood of the new testament shed for many. The Feast of Unleavened Bread, Jesus' sinless life, leaven is a symbol of sin in the Bible, making Him the perfect sacrifice for our sins. First Fruits, Jesus is the firstfruits of them that slept.
The Tamid sacrifice was the beginning and the ending of the daily worship, a Perpetual Sacrifice the first and the last. It was done every day but on the day of the crucifixion, it is evident the timing was so precise it must have been for that day. Exodus 29:38-42
Early the morning of Passover the first hour Jesus was taken to Pilate to be judged where no fault was found in Him. At the exact time, the priest tied the Tamid lamb to the altar and inspected it to make sure there were no blemishes. Jesus was nailed to the cross the third hour, 9 AM. The priest slaughtered the lamb and placed it on the fire as the first sacrifice of the day on the third hour, 9 AM, the first hour of prayer. The lamb burns on the fire all day, a continual burnt sacrifice. All the people's sin sacrifices are placed on top of the wood where the first lamb is burning.
At the six-hour (noon) the priest brings the second lamb, ties it to the altar, and inspects it for blemishes and darkness fell over the land until the ninth hour 3 PM. The ninth hour 3 PM the last Tamid lamb was sacrificed and placed on the altar on top of all the sacrifices that day ending the daily sacrifices, the second hour of prayer; also called the hour of confession. At the same time the darkness lifted, Jesus gave up the ghost, earthquake, the veil of the temple rent, many bodies of the saints which slept arose and appeared to many and at this time they were sacrificing the Passover lambs. Hebrews 10:5-12
You are not causing any confusion at all. To me anyway. As we should share these things of the Scriptures to help broaden each other. I very much enjoy conversing with others in the Lord.
That is very interesting about the "eis" following the G1720 word. You are correct as I looked over the Septuagint and saw the differences from those other two verses, with G1720, to John 20:22.
Although Jesus had not ascended into Heaven yet, as you correctly stated, He had raised up from the dead and was in His glorified body at this point. In my thought, in that He just "breathed in" before He spake seems of no avail or reason to me to have stated that.
With the Thayers and Strongs definition of the word G1720 stating "to blow or breathe upon" and "to blow at or on". As I am in no way a scholar in the Greek language.
Also as that word, G1720, only being used twice in the entire Septuagint(Greek OT), in the two verses you stated, and only once in the entire Textus Receptus(Greek NT) in John 20:22.
My belief is that the Lord did breathe the Holy Ghost at His disciples at that point. Although as I stated before only God, and the Lord, knows for sure about this. Your belief is just as good as mine. That is very good that you picked up on that little difference.
As this topic really is not that important. Exactly when the Lords disciples received the Holy Ghost.
Thank you for all your information and time Jesse. Always a pleasure.
Genesis 2:7 from the Septuagint translated into English says, "and the God molded man from the dust of the land and (breathed into) his face the breath of life and man became into a living soul."
Ezekiel 37:9 from the Greek Septuagint says, "and He said to me "Prophesy son of man, prophesy over the Spirit and tell the Spirit "Thus says The Lord, come out of the four spirits and (breathe into) these dead let them live!"
The prepositional phrase EIS is used in both Genesis 2:7 and Ezekiel 37:9.
There is a specific action taking place in both those verses. The preposition EIS is used with the accusative case in both Genesis 2:7 and Ezekiel 37:9. What that means to me is that it points to the object of verbal action. When I see the prepositional phrase EIS with the accusative, I believe it should be translated by using terms such as into, unto, to, toward, etc. A specific action.
But in John 20:22, the prepositional phrase EIS is not used in that verse in the Textus Receptus. That is why I don't believe the English translation is correct when it says He breathed on them. There's nothing in the Greek text to indicate that action was taken. It should read He breathed in. I see it as Jesus taking a deep breath before saying receive ye the Holy Ghost.
But John 20:22 does not tell us that they received the Holy Ghost.
I do agree that the Holy Spirit fell on many in Acts Chapter 2. But I don't see any indication that anyone had received the Holy Spirit before Christ's ascension into heaven. That is what I was getting at. I believe that salvation takes place once God's Spirit (Holy Spirit) enters into a person, not before.
What I was referring to was that while Jesus was here on this earth, I don't believe anyone had received the Holy Spirit yet. In Acts Chapter 2, yes! This would have been after Christ ascended into heaven.
As I understand you stating that the true experience, receiving the Holy Ghost, had not happened yet as we see in Acts 2 with the Holy Ghost coming upon them in Jerusalem.
Although I must ask where you have heard "He breathed on them" literally says "He breathed in"? The translation from the Greek is quite accurate. As the Greek word "emphusao" means "to blow or breath upon or to blow at".
I myself believe that is when they did receive the Holy Ghost personally from the Lord. In Acts 2 it states "they were all filled with the Holy Ghost". Having that amazing experience. Not stating that is where they received it. I believe that is the first place that they felt or experienced the power of the Holy Ghost. In my understanding.
I hope my statement only brings us together. As only God knows exactly when the Holy Ghost entered them.
The literal translation of John 20:22 for the term "He breathed on them," it says literally "He breathed in." That is it! "He breathed in and said to them."
What does that mean that He breathed in?
Some point out the fact that the word for breathe is found in two places in the Old Testament, one is in Genesis 2:7, where the Lord literally breathed into the face of Adam and he became a living soul.
And then in Ezekiel 37:9, where he tells Ezekiel to go out and prophecy, and the wind comes and blows on the dead bones and they become alive.
But the difference between this instance and the two places I just mentioned is that in the Septuagint, in Genesis 2:7 and Ezekiel 37:9 it has what is called the preposition EIS with the accusative.
God breathed into Adam. The wind and breath of God breathed into the dead bones. There is no prepositional phrase here in John 20:22. It is just the word breathed in.
What is interesting is that it does not say that they received the Holy Spirit.
This text is where some get the "two experiences" where here they were saved, and in Acts Chapter 2, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a "second experience" that every Christian needs.
The problem here is that Jesus gave them the command, receive the Holy Ghost. It doesn't say they received Him!
I guess my answer to your question would be that when Jesus said this, He breathed in, like to expand His chest, and He says unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
I hope this was not a private conversation. If so, please accept my apology.
It has been a good day. Jesus speaks to me and you.
John 21:14-17
14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon Peter, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he saith unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things, thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him. Feed my sheep.
Hey Rev. John This may be incorrect, but was it the promise of the Comforter that the world could not receive, in John 14:16-17 sent from the Father in Jesus' name? Ron, If wrong that is a beautiful question I will Keep studying. Understand now why you are a Professor.
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
I agree, all had to believe, but the Jews had to believe John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." and the Gentiles had to believe 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"
But you'll have to agree nothing beats Bible study for having fun!
Skip Vought, You said this: Paul, writing the the church at Corinth in about 55, records how he had DELIVERED to them what he had RECEIVED: received many years earlier when he had visited Peter and James in Jerusalem some 3 years after his Damascus Road conversion.
Paul disagrees with you, Read this: Galatians 1:11-12 "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." Jesus gave Paul the exact word of the Gospel that he preached to the Gentiles.
The amount of time between the death of Jesus, and His subsequent appearance to Paul would be 8 or 9 years around 36 or 37A.D.). so Paul would have been in his early 30's when Jesus appeared to him, and he became a Christian.
Galatians 1:18-19 "Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. 19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother." Galatians 2:1-2 "Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain." So, 8 years plus 3 years plus 14 years, would be 25 year after the resurrection of Jesus that Paul had the big Bible conference in Jerusalem with all the Apostles when he told the other Apostles of the Gospel that he was preaching to the Gentiles. The 12 Apostles had been preaching a different Gospel for 25 years. They never preached "how that Christ died for sins" Not once. Although the Gospel that the 12 Apostles preached to the Jews are found in about a half-a-dozen scriptures, they are basically all the same. John's Gospel is perhaps the clearest and best one. John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son
My point is, there are two different Gospels; one for the Jews, and one for the Gentiles. John 1:11-12 "He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:", John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.", Romans 10:9-13 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.", and 1 John 5:13 "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.". Those five Gospels are basically the same Gospel for the Jews. The twelve Disciples were commanded by Jesus, NOT to go to the Gentiles in Matthew chapter ten. The one exception was Peter was given the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, (not the Kingdom of God) for the kingdom of God was taken from the Jews, and given to the Gentiles in Matthew Chapter 21:43. The reason the Jews had to admit that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, was because "He came unto his own, and his own received him not. " But as many Jews, that received him were saved; and about 3,000 were saved at Pentecost. Paul's Gospel is Different
Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles by God's choice. The Lord Jesus declared that He had a specific mission for Paul: "This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel" ( Acts 9:15). Paul had been set apart from birth and called by God's grace so that he might "preach [Christ] among the Gentiles" ( Galatians 1:15-16).
Are you a Gentile? Then you need to go to the Apostle Paul to find out how to be saved, what we cal "born again".
This passage of scripture is 1st Corinthians 15:1-4, but verse three and four, is the Gospel, the good news that Christ took our place so that we might have live everlasting.
Jesus commanded his 12 Disciples NOT to go to the Gentiles, in Matthew 10 1-7, and then about eighteen years later, he sent Paul to the Gentiles, WHY? Because he had a different Gospel for the Gentiles, "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. John 20:31. That Gospel is for the Jews. And Paul's Gospel is for the Gentiles. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" You can plainly see they are different. Peter, nor any of the 12 apostles preach that "Jesus died for our sins" as Paul did. Check out these two scriptures John 20:31, and 1st Corinthians 15:3,4.
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." Other verses say, "foundation of the world,"
Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" But we were not "in him" until we received him. So, how did God call you by Paul's Gospel before the foundation of the world? Pete says it was "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." 1 Peter 1:2. elect, and chosen have the same meaning. So, God looked forward in time, and saw all those gentiles who would believe Paul's Gospel, and all the Jews who would believe John's Gospel: John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." and Paul's Gospel for the Gentiles. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" And those are the ones that was Chose before the foundation of the world. Do you see the difference in these two Gospels? Paul's Gospel is for the Gentiles during the Age of Grace, often called the Church age. and John's Gospel in for the Jews before the age of Grace, and the Great Tribulation after the age of Grace. And Believing is the way you receive Jesus as the Christ, the son of God, for the Jews. And believing Paul's Gospel is the way yo
Happy Easter and welcome to the site.
"One should not endeavor to transpose Old Testament details into the New in a way that undermines or infringes on the tenor of the gospel.
Then again, the liberty of the New Testament should not be considered to minimize the holiness of God as set forth in the Old. Jesus did not destroy the validity of the Old Testament; He fulfilled it ( Matthew 5:17). There must be a balanced spiritual understanding of the relationship of the two testaments."
That the four corners of our hearts have equal amounts of the breath of God.
"Tenor is the harmony of the whole, the intent and purpose of something written or spoken. The Hebrew word from which tenor is translated gives a hint of action: "to puff: scatter into corners" (Strong's concordance). In other words, even under Moses's Law, it took the breath of God, or tenor, to scatter the Lord's dictates into the corners of the hearts of men.
It was this tenor that finally brought Saul (the unconverted Paul) to see his heart's need and pointed him to Christ
( Romans 7). Saul was "blameless" ( Philippians 3:6) concerning the statute law. But his conscience became sin-ridden when the breath of God scattered the real intent of the law into the corners of his heart. Such is the power of the law under the Holy Spirit's unction."
I am not trying to intrude in your conversation, but reading your post, I felt inclined to share something with you about your statement "I can't get my head around why Jesus would tell Mary not to touch him."
John Chapter 20 tells us that this was right after Jesus rose from the tomb. When Mary first saw Jesus, she thought He was the gardener. But after hearing His voice, she realized it was Jesus and she grabbed onto him. And Jesus said unto her, "Touch me not."
Now it is very interesting what the text says. This is one of those instances where the English text doesn't help us out much. We read Jesus saying don't touch me, and it's like what's that all about? First of all, the word "touch" is the word HAPTO, and it means to fasten. It doesn't mean to touch as in "Don't touch me, stay away from me!" It means don't fasten yourself to me. It is a Present Imperative in the Greek text which indicates that she is already doing it. She is holding on tight and not going to let go. Jesus is not saying don't touch me. He's saying stop clinging to me.
As a matter of fact, in Matthew 28:9, Matthew tells us that she had a death grip on His ankles. She was not going to let Him out of her sight again! So He wasn't telling her "Don't touch me." He was saying let go, don't cling to me, stop clinging to me.
And there was a reason for it, He says in John 20:17, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: In other words, He is saying, and you see, here is where the changeover comes. Here's where the ministry comes in.
He has now revealed Himself as the resurrected one to Mary, and she's got this grip on Him like I'm never going to let you out of my sight again, and He is telling her, "You have to let go because I have not yet gone to the Father."
This is not going to be a physical relationship where you can see me and hear me. It's going to be by faith. So it is interesting!
I hope this might give you a better understanding of why Jesus made that statement.
To us who have experienced the joy of salvation, we instantly enter into the same state as Mary was in: of utter joy in seeing her beloved again, risen from the grave, death having no hold on Him. And we see & experience the risen Christ each day, every moment of the day, in all His Glory & Beauty. All praise be to Him for going to the cross for us & to the Eternal loving Father Who sent Him for our sakes.
"My Lord and my God" John 20:2
"He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest" Luke 1:32
"that Holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" Luke 1:35
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son" John 3:16
"And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God" John 1:34
"This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" Matthew 3:17
"God sent his only begotten Son into the world" 1 John 4:9
"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" Matthew 16:16
"The Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world" 1 John 4:14
"And thou shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins" Matthew 1:21
"Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world" 1 Peter 1:20
"But when the fulness of the time was to come, God sent his Son" Galatians 4:4
"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel" Isaiah 7:14
"Behold, thou shall conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name JESUS" Luke 1:31
"Then said Mary to the Angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" Luke 1:34
"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" Luke 1:35
" Thou son of David, fear not to take Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost" Matthew 1:20
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" John 1:14
"I am the bread of life....This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from Heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world" John 6:48-51
Some of these comments even have a sense of pride- as if demeaning Jesus is an accomplishment to be proud of. Whomever is behind this campaign seems quite closed off to just normal, non-distorted interpreations of the Word.
Shame on you and everyone who is attacking and trying to discredit the Bible and demean Jesus. I find these posts disturbing and even sickening to think that Christians are giving into a lie so easily without question. But the truth will always expose the lie. Jesus is Lord and Jesus is divine and Jesus is the Son and Jesus is one with the Father and Holy Spirit, Jesus is the I AM, Jesus is God just as the Bible says.
Isaiah 44:6
John 20:27-28
John 10:30
John 5:18
John 1:18
Colossians 2:9-10
John 10:33
John 1:1
John 1:14
1 Corinthians 8:6
Revelation 1:17-18
Acts 7:59-60
Matthew 28:19
2 Peter 1:1
Acts 20:28
1 John 5:7
So, it sounds like you don't believe Jesus is God, despite the scripture clearly saying that in these scriptures and elsewhere: John 10:30, John 1:1, 1 John 5:7-8. Jesus is the Word and the Word is God is 100% clear to even children readers.
The first piece of evidence you used to claim He's not God is Matthew 16:15-17 saying He's the Son of God. But these aren't mutually exclusive. It sounds like you're assuming Jesus somehow can't be both God and the son of God. That's not much different than someone claiming God the Father can't be God, because He's the Father. So, I think your interpretation of this being 'evidence' that Jesus isn't God is a false assumption.
2 Corinthians 5:19 - God in Christ. That too doesn't mean Christ isn't God's son or isn't God. That involves making yet another assumption.
John 20:17 - this is your strongest piece of evidence, but again, I believe you have to make another false assumption and ignore earlier in the same book where it clearly says the Word (Jesus) was God. How can you refute that verse so easily. The Bible says Jesus is God in many places, He had the power of God to perform miracles, He died for you, and you prefer to ignore the parts of John that say He's God in favor of the part that says His father is God to draw such a conclusion. Just because you have a hard time understanding the trinity doesn't mean one must rush to such a conclusion to disregard John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:58, Titus 2:13, Matthew 1:23, etc.
One thing I do agree with you on is to not trust man's interpretation. That's why I don't trust your interpretation, but trust what the Bible says. God bless you.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
- Matthew 16:15-17
Jesus is the Son of God.
Do you see?
He's not the pagan babylonian/roman "god the son"
2 Corinthians 5:19
King James Version
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
The Holy Scriptures proclaim
God was in Christ.
Not God was Christ. Or Christ was God.
This is why Jesus told Mary after he was risen:
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God
Jesus had a Father and a God and that God was in Him and in Heaven @ the same time.
When you say Jesus was fully God you exalt the flesh and create an idol for yourself.
All the pagan religions have a trinity: starting with the original mystery of iniquity in Babylon (nimrod semiramis and tammuz) to Hinduism, greek gods, roman gods etc.
Christian's only believe in one God, the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Holy Spirit.
The verses you referenced speak nothing of a "trinity" of Gods. 1 John 5:7 is speaking of God the Father who is in heaven.
And 1 John 5:8 is speaking of the blood covenant by baptism of water and Spirit on the earth.
John 8:31-32
Trust in the word and forsake the teachings of deceived men.
Be well, in Jesus' name
a. Isaiah 28:11,12: "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing..." If you read this portion of Scripture, it has nothing to do with the experience of speaking in other tongues. It has to do with the Assyrian captivity, when Ephraim (one of Joseph's sons) is particularly mentioned who would go into captivity along with Israel, because of their many sins & wicked prophets & priests. Instead of hearing the Word of God through His prophets, they would receive the Word from those "with stammering lips & another tongue", i.e. another nation & another language, implying that the Word given would also be spoken in scorn & derision to God's people. This verse has nothing to do with the spiritual gift of Tongues.
b. the 'doctrine of the Trinity'. You would have a hard time to deny the Trinity, as it was not only believed by the apostles & the early Church ( John 17:5, Matthew 28:19, John 20:28, etc), but was also believed by the early Church fathers (i.e. those who were eminent men in the post-apostolic Church, after the apostle John). Names such as Ignatius ("For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God's plan..."; "There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord."). And Polycarp ("Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal High Priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth...and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead."). And not to mention Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Origen, who all believed it. This is not an RC introduced belief.
The Tamid sacrifice was the beginning and the ending of the daily worship, a Perpetual Sacrifice the first and the last. It was done every day but on the day of the crucifixion, it is evident the timing was so precise it must have been for that day. Exodus 29:38-42
Early the morning of Passover the first hour Jesus was taken to Pilate to be judged where no fault was found in Him. At the exact time, the priest tied the Tamid lamb to the altar and inspected it to make sure there were no blemishes. Jesus was nailed to the cross the third hour, 9 AM. The priest slaughtered the lamb and placed it on the fire as the first sacrifice of the day on the third hour, 9 AM, the first hour of prayer. The lamb burns on the fire all day, a continual burnt sacrifice. All the people's sin sacrifices are placed on top of the wood where the first lamb is burning.
At the six-hour (noon) the priest brings the second lamb, ties it to the altar, and inspects it for blemishes and darkness fell over the land until the ninth hour 3 PM. The ninth hour 3 PM the last Tamid lamb was sacrificed and placed on the altar on top of all the sacrifices that day ending the daily sacrifices, the second hour of prayer; also called the hour of confession. At the same time the darkness lifted, Jesus gave up the ghost, earthquake, the veil of the temple rent, many bodies of the saints which slept arose and appeared to many and at this time they were sacrificing the Passover lambs. Hebrews 10:5-12
May God bless us,Ron
You are not causing any confusion at all. To me anyway. As we should share these things of the Scriptures to help broaden each other. I very much enjoy conversing with others in the Lord.
That is very interesting about the "eis" following the G1720 word. You are correct as I looked over the Septuagint and saw the differences from those other two verses, with G1720, to John 20:22.
Although Jesus had not ascended into Heaven yet, as you correctly stated, He had raised up from the dead and was in His glorified body at this point. In my thought, in that He just "breathed in" before He spake seems of no avail or reason to me to have stated that.
With the Thayers and Strongs definition of the word G1720 stating "to blow or breathe upon" and "to blow at or on". As I am in no way a scholar in the Greek language.
Also as that word, G1720, only being used twice in the entire Septuagint(Greek OT), in the two verses you stated, and only once in the entire Textus Receptus(Greek NT) in John 20:22.
My belief is that the Lord did breathe the Holy Ghost at His disciples at that point. Although as I stated before only God, and the Lord, knows for sure about this. Your belief is just as good as mine. That is very good that you picked up on that little difference.
As this topic really is not that important. Exactly when the Lords disciples received the Holy Ghost.
Thank you for all your information and time Jesse. Always a pleasure.
God Bless.
Here is what brings me to my conclusion:
Genesis 2:7 from the Septuagint translated into English says, "and the God molded man from the dust of the land and (breathed into) his face the breath of life and man became into a living soul."
Ezekiel 37:9 from the Greek Septuagint says, "and He said to me "Prophesy son of man, prophesy over the Spirit and tell the Spirit "Thus says The Lord, come out of the four spirits and (breathe into) these dead let them live!"
The prepositional phrase EIS is used in both Genesis 2:7 and Ezekiel 37:9.
There is a specific action taking place in both those verses. The preposition EIS is used with the accusative case in both Genesis 2:7 and Ezekiel 37:9. What that means to me is that it points to the object of verbal action. When I see the prepositional phrase EIS with the accusative, I believe it should be translated by using terms such as into, unto, to, toward, etc. A specific action.
But in John 20:22, the prepositional phrase EIS is not used in that verse in the Textus Receptus. That is why I don't believe the English translation is correct when it says He breathed on them. There's nothing in the Greek text to indicate that action was taken. It should read He breathed in. I see it as Jesus taking a deep breath before saying receive ye the Holy Ghost.
But John 20:22 does not tell us that they received the Holy Ghost.
I do agree that the Holy Spirit fell on many in Acts Chapter 2. But I don't see any indication that anyone had received the Holy Spirit before Christ's ascension into heaven. That is what I was getting at. I believe that salvation takes place once God's Spirit (Holy Spirit) enters into a person, not before.
What I was referring to was that while Jesus was here on this earth, I don't believe anyone had received the Holy Spirit yet. In Acts Chapter 2, yes! This would have been after Christ ascended into heaven.
I hope that I am not causing any confusion here.
Thank you for the response!
As I understand you stating that the true experience, receiving the Holy Ghost, had not happened yet as we see in Acts 2 with the Holy Ghost coming upon them in Jerusalem.
Although I must ask where you have heard "He breathed on them" literally says "He breathed in"? The translation from the Greek is quite accurate. As the Greek word "emphusao" means "to blow or breath upon or to blow at".
I myself believe that is when they did receive the Holy Ghost personally from the Lord. In Acts 2 it states "they were all filled with the Holy Ghost". Having that amazing experience. Not stating that is where they received it. I believe that is the first place that they felt or experienced the power of the Holy Ghost. In my understanding.
I hope my statement only brings us together. As only God knows exactly when the Holy Ghost entered them.
God Bless.
You can type that in this websites Search Box (as you enter the site. you'll see it
What does that mean that He breathed in?
Some point out the fact that the word for breathe is found in two places in the Old Testament, one is in Genesis 2:7, where the Lord literally breathed into the face of Adam and he became a living soul.
And then in Ezekiel 37:9, where he tells Ezekiel to go out and prophecy, and the wind comes and blows on the dead bones and they become alive.
But the difference between this instance and the two places I just mentioned is that in the Septuagint, in Genesis 2:7 and Ezekiel 37:9 it has what is called the preposition EIS with the accusative.
God breathed into Adam. The wind and breath of God breathed into the dead bones. There is no prepositional phrase here in John 20:22. It is just the word breathed in.
What is interesting is that it does not say that they received the Holy Spirit.
This text is where some get the "two experiences" where here they were saved, and in Acts Chapter 2, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a "second experience" that every Christian needs.
The problem here is that Jesus gave them the command, receive the Holy Ghost. It doesn't say they received Him!
I guess my answer to your question would be that when Jesus said this, He breathed in, like to expand His chest, and He says unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
I hope this was not a private conversation. If so, please accept my apology.
John 21:14-17
14 This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.
15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon Peter, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he saith unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things, thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him. Feed my sheep.
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
:)
Here are a couple links to the verses I think you are seeking:
Matthew 28:18-20
( Mark 16:14-20
( John 16
( John 20:21-22
Hope that helps. God Bless.
But you'll have to agree nothing beats Bible study for having fun!
Paul disagrees with you, Read this: Galatians 1:11-12 "But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." Jesus gave Paul the exact word of the Gospel that he preached to the Gentiles.
The amount of time between the death of Jesus, and His subsequent appearance to Paul would be 8 or 9 years around 36 or 37A.D.). so Paul would have been in his early 30's when Jesus appeared to him, and he became a Christian.
Galatians 1:18-19 "Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. 19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother." Galatians 2:1-2 "Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain." So, 8 years plus 3 years plus 14 years, would be 25 year after the resurrection of Jesus that Paul had the big Bible conference in Jerusalem with all the Apostles when he told the other Apostles of the Gospel that he was preaching to the Gentiles. The 12 Apostles had been preaching a different Gospel for 25 years. They never preached "how that Christ died for sins" Not once. Although the Gospel that the 12 Apostles preached to the Jews are found in about a half-a-dozen scriptures, they are basically all the same. John's Gospel is perhaps the clearest and best one. John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.", Romans 10:9-13 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.", and 1 John 5:13 "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.". Those five Gospels are basically the same Gospel for the Jews. The twelve Disciples were commanded by Jesus, NOT to go to the Gentiles in Matthew chapter ten. The one exception was Peter was given the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, (not the Kingdom of God) for the kingdom of God was taken from the Jews, and given to the Gentiles in Matthew Chapter 21:43. The reason the Jews had to admit that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God, was because "He came unto his own, and his own received him not. " But as many Jews, that received him were saved; and about 3,000 were saved at Pentecost. Paul's Gospel is Different
Are you a Gentile? Then you need to go to the Apostle Paul to find out how to be saved, what we cal "born again".
This passage of scripture is 1st Corinthians 15:1-4, but verse three and four, is the Gospel, the good news that Christ took our place so that we might have live everlasting.
Jesus commanded his 12 Disciples NOT to go to the Gentiles, in Matthew 10 1-7, and then about eighteen years later, he sent Paul to the Gentiles, WHY? Because he had a different Gospel for the Gentiles, "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. John 20:31. That Gospel is for the Jews. And Paul's Gospel is for the Gentiles. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" You can plainly see they are different. Peter, nor any of the 12 apostles preach that "Jesus died for our sins" as Paul did. Check out these two scriptures John 20:31, and 1st Corinthians 15:3,4.
from the beginning
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ." Other verses say, "foundation of the world,"
Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:" But we were not "in him" until we received him. So, how did God call you by Paul's Gospel before the foundation of the world? Pete says it was "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." 1 Peter 1:2. elect, and chosen have the same meaning. So, God looked forward in time, and saw all those gentiles who would believe Paul's Gospel, and all the Jews who would believe John's Gospel: John 20:31 "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." and Paul's Gospel for the Gentiles. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" And those are the ones that was Chose before the foundation of the world. Do you see the difference in these two Gospels? Paul's Gospel is for the Gentiles during the Age of Grace, often called the Church age. and John's Gospel in for the Jews before the age of Grace, and the Great Tribulation after the age of Grace. And Believing is the way you receive Jesus as the Christ, the son of God, for the Jews. And believing Paul's Gospel is the way yo