You quote me: Christ words out of His own mouth, which shall not pass away refutes all these words & belief concerning His 2nd coming, meaning this so call "rapture myth" The misunderstanding lies in who report will we believed,
Jesus gives His report of this present oracle here surrounding His 2nd coming. He says Matt 24:33 the door was open on the day of Pentecost, His kingdom came, the disciples became apostles, that day they were change in a twinkling of an eye. Its important to note they finally understood Jesus commendation to Mary, & chose the better part.
Jesus prayed in John 17:15, I pray not that Thou should take them out of the world, John 17:20 including us. We all can be assured that Christ prayers are answered. Jesus accomplish many things for us in His sacrificial life, one is that we may fulfill the great commission of Genesis 1:26, in truth expanding it , on earth as it is in heaven.
Friend, Jesus has already return & that by His Spirit. John14:18 2Cor 3:171Cor 3:16Titus 2:11 a living personal experience in Spirit for each individual soul as His Spirit appears in everyone of us bringing us the words of salvation.
As far as your 2nd response concerning the sun, moon & the stars
It appears you maybe rejecting Light, that His Spirit has shine upon these Scriptures which are given to us, which also were fulfilled in their season.
Concerning these outward trauma, I agree, the Scripture gives plenty of examples of this, the flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, the rebellion of Dathan, etc; God makes use of His creation to discipline His creatures, noting that it like a last resort to Him, deriving from their inward rebellion, which all begins with a departure from the Truth/Light, that's known & manifested in them. Rom 1:19
Let's reverence the Light, the Anointing , John 1:9 the Spirit of Christ. John 6:63 the Spirit who speaks His words in our hearts.
Who inspired the holy men of God to write the Bible, which the Bible points to as the Giver of all Life, that we may freely become partake of the Life of Christ, that we may possess a personal intimate relationship with our Father though His Son Jesus Christ, who will cleanse us from all sin that we may become sons of God, by which God by His Spirit makes all these thing possible.
1Cor 15:45Job 33:4Rom 8:9John 10:10
The letter can not do this & was not given to do this. Meaning the Strong Concordance or what wherever else their is out there, it maybe helpful to the little children, but its not necessary, man have put them in the place of His Spirit in discerning the things of God.,..
For the Spirit is given for this very purpose to guide, convict, teach, comfort & counsel us. Jesus states, John 16:7
He bringing us into the very Life of God the Scriptures give witness too, that all the holy men & women of God enjoy by His Spirit
John 3:27 God,
For the Father seeketh such to worship Him, meaning being led by His Spirit & Truth in all things that pertaineth to this life & without His Spirit leading us nothing is acceptable to Him. Jesus said that I only say & do as the Father reveals it to Me, our Forerunner
David,
The Spirit will always point to the Life of Christ as our Example, John 17:17-19 meaning the words God's Spirit led Him to say & do, sanctifies Him & us. 1John 2:61John 4:17 & will alway align Himself to the Scriptures which He, Himself inspired, along with mans nobler part, "sound reasoning". His Spirit bearing witness with our spirit.
This is not against Scriptures, by no means, but fulfills them, we can't understand the truth imported by them, without the One who inspired them as Scripture plainly reveals 1Cor 2:9-14.
Job 32:8
You keep making these dogmatic statements, contrary to the Scriptures you point too!
I agree, also we who are in Christ shall be one to do His will.
John 17:20-23 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Hello Chowell2. From what you've written, I'm assuming that this person you mentioned sees that God & Jesus must be two distinct persons, since one is Spirit & the other Flesh (i.e. as a regular human being). So if this is the case, then the Divine & the human cannot unite, refuting the belief that they are one, or united in any way.
In the first instance, I would direct you to Matthew 1:18-25, which speaks of this 'Divine Birth'. The question one should ask from this passage is: 'how did this Baby named Jesus, come to be born into the world?' Your contact could well say, that He was born as any human baby is born, by human fertilization, development in the womb, & then entrance into the world. But look at verse 18: before Joseph could have sexual intimacy with his wife, Mary was found with child, not because of any unfaithfulness by her to Joseph, but that God had placed in her this Divine Seed by the Power of His Holy Spirit. And then in verse 23, Jesus' Birth was in fulfillment of prophecy that a virgin would miraculously bring forth a Son & He would be called (i.e. by his title), Emmanuel. And this Name means, God with us.
This passage alone should convince anyone that this birth was an extraordinary one. There has never been any person born into the world that would come as Jesus did, because Jesus' Birth was directly executed by God: God taking His Word, sending His Word into the World by clothing Himself (God's Word) with the flesh of man ( John 1:1-14) - for the purpose of sacrifice for our sins. Yes, Jesus was fully Human as we are, but we are the product of our parents - Jesus came from God's Own Person & not from humans ( John 17:5, "...O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was"). So yes, Jesus was "the only begotten" & also called "the Son of Man" which indicates His Humanity, but the question, 'what was Jesus' origin, given the Scriptures about His Divine Nature & His Works?'
the rapture that everyone is talking about in today Christendom is a myth, divise from a theological cemetry in Dallas Tx if I understand right & yes I meant cemetery, cemetery & seminary are spiritual synonyms
Jesus prayed, John 17:15John 17:20
Titus 2:11-14 appearing of the Great God & Savior is the Grace of God that appears to all mankind, His spiritual appearance in everyones heart, making it possible for all the other Scriptures you quoted possible.
The tribulations are our spiritual inward trials & suffering as Christ breaks thru the darkness that we're captivated too,& redeems, delivers & translate us into the kingdom of His dear Son, through the washing of regeneration & renewing of the Holy Spirit unto the new creature, culminating the work of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling of of the Blood/Life of Jesus within us. When were truely born again, experientially Matt 3:11,12 He gathers us unto the Garder, seeing Him spirituallly come in the clouds in great glory. We're still here on earth, but we're spiritual conscious of heaven 2Cor 2:17
The writers of the NT were speaking in the present tense, they said "we" it would be a cruel hoax to tell them to look for Him when it would be over 2000yrs later. Jesus said Luke 17:20-23Luke 9:27 to those who were with Him then.
Luke 11:2Luke 12:32 here & now, this is the exceedingly great glory of the Christ sacrifice John 17:21-24
You says, Paul was an exception to the rule? Would you please prove this by the Scriptures.
You says, Jesus comes into my heart, should be taken figuratively? 1Cor 3:16,172Cor 13:5Col 1:27Ephesians 2:22 Where else could He desire to be but within our heart, the seat & center of our very being. Proverbs 4:231Samuel 16:17
You say this sounds strange?
Consider also John 17:21-24 the oneness & unity that God desires to have with His people, this is what God has set His heart on Jeremiah 32:40,41 & made available thru the NC; this is a God, that has said, with all His heart & soul ! Come on; have a little faith.
We're heirs of God & joint heirs of Christ, it is God Himself that is our inheritance Psalms 119:57Psalms 73:26
You says, not by one staying home & God teaching him. This is exactly what God has done through the spiritual writing of the Quakers, specifically from 1646-1700 through the gifts Christ gave His church; in their writing I discover the intent of God's heart to cleanse one from all sin, & being united with God through Christ, which the Scriptures so manifestly declares & how God accomplishes it. Isa 64:41Cor 2:9Psalms 130:5 I'm talking about that Word that is Rom 10:8 that comes by 10:17 Meaning Christ spiritual appearance within conscience/heart John 1:9Titus 2:11 Obeying His Father commands 2Cor 4:6 which is the Treasure we have in these earthen vessels. 2Cor 4:7 to know the things that are freely given to us 1Cor 2:12
Matthew 13:30 Let them grow together (the wheat and the tares) ......but gather the wheat into the barn ....
Job 39:12 Wilt thou believe him (a prophecy of the Messiah), that he (Christ) may bring home the SEED (the word of God), and gather it (the word of God)(the SEED)(the WHEAT)(all symbols of CHRIST) into the barn (a symbol of the TEMPLE)
John 12:24 ... except a corn of WHEAT (SEED)(word of God)(CHRIST) fall into the ground (the grave)and DIE, it (Christ)(the WORD)(the SEED) (the WHEAT) abideth alone, but if it (Christ, the SEED, the WORD, the WHEAT) DIE, it (CHRIST) bringeth forth much FRUIT.
Wheat makes more WHEAT, Christ makes MORE CHRIST.
Ephesians 4:4 ..... ONE body .... ONE Spirit ....
John 17:22 .... that they may be ONE as we are ONE ......
Christ ONLY was raised from the DEAD.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIED ANYMORE: but they are EQUAL to the ANGELS, being the children of the RESURRECTION.
Isaiah 63:9 ... and the ANGEL of HIS PRESENCE SAVED THEM ....
There is only ONE SIN ..... UNBELIEF .....all other sins are COVERED by the blood of Christ.
John 16:8 And when HE IS COME, he (the Holy Ghost) will reprove the world of SIN .... UNBELIEF ..... the HOLY Ghost is going to rule the world with a rod or iron (truth and mercy)
John 16:9 OF SIN, because they BELIEVE NOT on me (THE WORD) .....
Most believe Jesus came for the WORKS of the cross ..... they don't BELIEVE those WORKS ....
ALL BODIES DIED (yours, mine, and Christ's) on the cross 2000 years ago; ONLY ONE BODY arose, the BODY of CHRIST.
1 Corinthians 12:27 ... NOW ye are the BODY of Christ ..... who did NO SIN .....
There is NO .... I, me, myself ... ONLY ONE BODY .... the body of Christ ..... all creation, the NEW CREATION ....
John 17:22 And the glory that thou (the Spirit that raised Christ) has given me, I have GIVEN THEM (the new creation) that they may be ONE as we are ONE.
If you don't BELIEVE his WORDS your continuing in SIN ..... if you BELIEVE his WORDS you CANNOT SIN .... your just doing what Christ WILLS and Causes you TO DO.
Colossians 1:27 ..... this MYSTERY .... Christ in YOU ......
Ezekiel 36:27 And I (the Holy Ghost) will put my Spirit IN YOU (his body) and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and keep my judgements, and DO THEM.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God that WORKETH IN YOU both to WILL and to do his good pleasure.
Most don't BELIEVE the WORD.
God is giving you eyes to SEE his truth, your Christ's BODY, he is causing you to DO his good pleasure; therefore, you; his body, CANNOT SIN, because it's HIS WORKS, not your works.
Revelation 2:26 ....and he that keepeth MY WORKS to the end, to him will I give power over the nations ....as I have been given of my Father .....
God bless you as Christ CAUSES us to walk in TRUTH.
Isa 53, Now as then, Christ walks the same path as He did then, but in Spirit, He is despised, rejected of men, we esteem Him not, He's experiences the sorrow & grief in mankind unbelief of Him by His appearances in Spirit within our hearts. He has no form of comeliness that we such desire Him, meaning; the Word spoke in our hearts is Christ in Spirit, that Word is God, John 1:1; His first works within us John 16:8Titus 2:11,12 When we reject His reproof of correction, through unbelief, His words has finds no place in our hearts, we hidden our faces from Him, & run to other things to drown out His Voice, the tender motions of Holy Spirit in His proffering of salvation.
It is indeed Christ within conscience, the mystery Col 1:26-28 Jesus said to the Jews, John 5:39 as then now, God is a Spirit, we must come to Him in & by His Spirit John 14:6 When Jesus said; Matt 11:25 He wasn't stating the Scriptures, Pastors, bible studies etc; but to Him personally. The Scriptures are profitable as we honor them in their right place, the words of God, but not God the Word, who was in the beginning with God, before the Scriptures were. The true glory & honor of the Scriptures is they give us a true testimony of Him, & that they point us to His 2nd coming in Spirit. Hebrews 9:28John 16:13 OT promise Isa 54:13 it is only by receiving Him in His Spirit appearance within our hearts/conscience that we receive Him, that He may work out His great salvation for us. There is no other way! John 14:6 For in the working of the operations of faith, Rom 10:17 which is in Rom 10:8 we come into relationship & fellowship with Him who suffered so on our behalf. We experience 1John 1:1-3 in the work of redemption. Trust & love is increased as we grow in Grace.
John 17:17 involves Christ's prayer for us to be sanctified; and involves His Word and the truth. James 1:23 and 24 reminds us that we need to be "doers"; and he compares a man in front of a mirror forgetting what he looks like as an example. I am not sure of the context; but I would also quote the verse from Hebrews 10:25 in this posting. The first passage shows the danger of ignoring our own walk; possibly showing us how we forget what we say; or invoking a memory that we are still with a fallen nature; the second passage also shows how forgetting to do corporate worship can also make us forget the experience.
I state this fact first because I find that no matter how long I learn the scriptures; grow in wisdom and understanding; etc. that it is in the fellowship of the saints where I once again recognize God's presence; and witness anew those with different gifts.
The danger of being prideful as to our own continued growth; particularly when it comes to learning things from other believers is one important reason to continue in regular church attendance as well as; of course witnessing with fellow believers; small groups; corporate prayer; etc.
The fact is; that as long as we dwell in this mortal flesh; there is potential to fall into sin. This is one reason we need to be careful not to idolize someone who appears to be someone mature in the faith. On the other hand; it is imperative to have others such as Paul with Timothy or Christ with the Disciples for instruction and discipleship; as "iron sharpens iron" ( Prov. 27:17). Proverbs 27:6 states "faithful are the wounds of a friend." Surely this sort of relationship is rare and needed in the church today.
As a father with a child; instruction in righteousness should bring us to maturity in our own spiritual walk so that we can go out and make Disciples ourselves as Christ instructed ( Matt. 28:19-20). We need to get beyond "decisions" for Christ that way.
Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.
I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;
Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;
As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.
Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.
This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;
It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;
Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.
In general; there is a set series of events that are going to consume the time period known as "Jacob's trouble" ( Jeremiah 30:7).
The incense of the prayers of the saints which encompass the initial scene in Revelation 5:8 prior to the seal judgments; and Revelation 8:3-4 (in that case before the Trumpet Judgments) show a sort of collective mass of prayers; either reflecting directly the persecutions on the earth at the time; or answering Millennia old prayers of saints long since forgotten by man; but held by God. (see Psalm 56:8).
Because of this; we see a difference in prophetic utterances such as Acts 21:10; and Acts 11:27-28. Such utterances indicate that the choices made (i.e. Paul heading straight to Jerusalem; preparing for a famine) certainly make these things conditional.
In Revelation it is generally structured indicating great events with associated signs and wonders that are already designed and predicted in detail. However; as with anything else there is latitude apparently for the two prophets to cause things as they wish in regard to droughts; etc. ( Rev. 11:6). Undoubtably some details are not straightforward (such as which part of the world the 1/4 die in the seal judgments). Safe to say it ain't going to be a fun time here on planet earth; that's for sure.
Looking at the Second Coming of Christ; no doubt great deception will occur with multitudes of false prophets at the time of the end. Antichrist Himself will basically act as a substitute for Christ; and will be the only man other than Judas Iscariot to be doomed to perdition. ( John 17:12; 2 Thess. 2:3). God will use him to make rulers agree to submit to his authority; as well as destroying the false "Mystery Babylon" which encompasses all the world's false religions sort of rolled into one. ( Revelation 18:17).
There are suspect individuals that certainly match many characteristics of such an individual. More in next post.
Chris, tell me, the experience you spoke of in your car, did you pull out your Strong's concordance for understanding, to correct your thoughts or for that matter to make you aware them? Or, was it the Light of God Spirit within you, that admonish you? Ephesians 5:13;
New life equated; being free from sin, not just in & of itself, but the best part, being partakers of the Divine Nature, union with John 17:21,22,23; Jesus came to show us the image & likeness that God created man in, Matt 11:29; Gal 5:22-24; this is the true dignity & glory of our creation, & how he took dominion over the earth. Mark 6:48,49; Mark 4:39-41; Matt 17:27; etc; fulfilling Gen 1:26 & will ultimately fulfill it through His body, the church, here on earth as it is in heaven.
I have not stated; as you're implying the perfecting of the body, physically, it still remains under the penalty of sin consequences. Yet can be pure & holy, being animated by the new birth & renewing of the mind by His Spirit; John 3:3-6; 1Thess 5:23,24; "wholly", not of position only, but possession.
The service in the temple made by hands was over as Jesus told the woman at the well, John 4:21-24. Soon in that generation, it would be physically gone and never be again. The animal sacrifices that never covered sin ended on the cross, the whole Levitical priesthood and sacrificial shadow service, Hebrews 7:11-13. Only the Messiah Himself could legitimately abolish once and forever the system of symbols that pointed forward to the atoning self-sacrifice of the spotless Lamb of God.
This was the cause of the sacrifices and oblations to cease in Dan 9:27. This unveils one of the most profound and decisive revelations of the Messiah's mission, the very goal, the things determined by the seventy-weeks prophecy, God's will, the work Jesus was sent to do John 5:36John 17:54-6 the sixfold goal of Daniel 9:24.
In vs. 26 after 69 weeks the Messiah is cut off, which after means it is in the 70th week. The people of the prince that shall come are the judgment of God not in these 70 weeks. This connection between the coming of the Messiah and the destruction of the city is the crucial message of Daniel 9:26, 27. They had 490 years to be ready and accept their Messiah and the people of the prince that shall come is the outcome of Jerusalem's rejection of her Messiah.
Jesus related the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 to Israel's final refusal to accept Him as her Messiah, Matt. 21:33-44Matt. 23:37-38; Luke 19:41-44. The abomination Jesus was referring to in Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14 was not to the future but to their near future when the Roman army would destroy Jerusalem and the Temple in their generation Luke 21:20-24.
I would agree with all except, for the last sentence, beginning with "Absolute Purity". Luke 6:40; 1John 4:17; Rom 12:1; the plain write of the words used denotes we're still living in this world.
Hypocrites; I don't believe you intentionally imply this, yet the results of your statement implying this. They did not speak of the new birth, but from the new birth, 2Cor 5:17; Ezekiel 36:25,26,27; heart of flesh; denotes our life now in the flesh. Eph 4:24; you put Him on, here; Col 3:10; The apostles lived, enjoy & possessed what they preached; Philippians 3:15,16; Again, what God required of us is to live according to the measure of the Truth that He has revealed, the apostles received Acts 1:8' Eph 1:19; Eph 3:20; Col 1:29; to do so.
You stated "has sin left them or ever leave them: Never, but they can have victory over sin; this is an oxymoron. Being born again of His Spirit alias; Matt 3:11-12; the threshing floor of the heart is thoroughly purge of the chaff. (sin nature), the spiritual old man of sin, the Adamic nature that animates the flesh. He's deny, mortify & final crucify, he's dead & self is seen no more. All by the Grace appearance within our hearts.
Friend,,,,your covering yourself, but not with the Spirit of the Lord, but with; Gen 3:7;
Your the understanding is veiled, for only the spirit of darkness would plead for sin to remain within one, after all that God has wrought & revealed to us through His Son. For he (Satan) knows that despite one's profession, though maybe ever so high or lofty, & profess with elegant words, it what one does that defines him, Rom 6:16; John 8:34; Rom 2:6;
Hebrews 9:11,12,13,14,15; do you hear what the Spirit is saying here? The flesh purified, OT, now in NT even our conscience cleanse, the heart. Eternal inheritance Roman 8:17; 2 Pet 1:4; John 17:21-23;
This is just the point David,I've been making all alone. Faith does not come by reading, studying, pastor preaching, Sunday school, etc: Its comes by Rom 10:17; this is the faith that Paul preached, speaking to you personally within your heart. These others maybe good execises to support & encourage if there inspired by Holy Spirit. But it cannot stand alone or take the place of having a personal relationship with Jesus, & this is what God has set His heart upon. John 14:21,23,26; John 17:21,22,23; Our faith is cannot be base on other people experinences, though ever be so helpful. In the work of regeneration we come to 1John 1:1-4 Here John is speaking of His Spirit appearance within our hearts, the Life/Light was manifested, Grace appearance. As we diligently hearken to His still small Voice we come to experiential knowledge of the Lord, 1John 5:20; "we have heard, seen with our eyes & have looked upon & our hands have handled of the Word of Life, spiritually, in this working out of our salvation. Hebrews 9:28; 2Cor 4:6,7; that the excellency to the Power to understand & receive the things of God, is of God & not of ourselves. John 3:27; We come to know His mind/will & good pleasure. Its what King David experience in Psalm 119:130; it what made him more wiser than his teacher Psalms 119:99; it was his Psalm 119:105; Psalm 123:2; Psalm 59:9; Psalm 69:3 & he commands his soul to wait upon the Lord Psalm 62:5; its call in Scripture the Key of David, Rev 3:7; He alone can Rev 5:2,5; Isa 22:22: He is the Treasure we have in these earthen vessel. Col 1:26,27,28; 1 Cor 2:12;
Blessing to you, you have a great desire & a zeal David.
No scripture of itself interprets scripture, it takes other scriptures combined together to interpret truth.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God CANNOT commit sin, for his SEED (GOD) remaineth in him, and he CANNOT SIN because he is born of God.
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my Spirit (God is Spirit) in YOU and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgements and DO them.
The kingdom of God only COMES to you if you believe what the word says.
Matthew 12:28 But if I (the Spirit of TRUTH) cast out devils (the spirit of deception) by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has COME unto you.
Was Paul saying something different; or, was he agreeing agreeing that is GOD IN YOU; HIS flesh and bone, that keeps you from sinning and not of yourself (your DEAD) only a NEW CREATION exist.
When you BELIEVE you are going to keep sinning in this life, then your going to keep sinning.
Matthew 8:13 .... and as thou hast BELIEVE, so be it done unto you ........
Do you BELIEVE you are a NEW CREATION, the flesh and bone OF CHRIST?
John 17:22 And the glory that thou has given me, I have GIVEN them, that they may be ONE as we are ONE.
If you don't believe that scripture, then the Kingdom of God has not YET COME to you.
JESUS' own testimony about Himself is wonderful, and reveals to us in depth the mystery of His existence here in the greatness of the Universe created by GOD, the Word, GOD the Father, full of heavenly bodies, and here on Earth, specifically, He populated the planet with living beings, and sat in the circle of the Earth, as is written in Isaiah 40:21-22KJV:
21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
22 It is GOD that sitteth upon the circle of the Earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; ...
That said, we must remember what JESUS said from His own existence: - John 17:4-5KJV: as follow:
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. ( John 1:3, and 5:17, and Hebrews 1:1-2KJV testify about this that JESUS said. Take a look.)
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the WORLD was. (John the Baptist, the angel of the LORD, testified about this, saying: John 1:18KJV- 18 No man hath seen GOD at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.)
Paul testified, saying: Colossians 1:14-16KJV:
14 In JESUS we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the INVISIBLE GOD -the Word- the Word is GOD- , the firstborn of every creature (the Word made flesh):
16 For by Him -by JESUS- were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: ( John 1:3, and 5:17, and Hebrews 1:1-2 confirm)
Hello everyone, Had an interesting question asked at our men's Bible group. " Our we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because where're sinners". Would like to hear your comments based from the Bible . Thank you
MountHoreb Response to Leoj:
When reading the bible, A Sinner is someone who has a leaning or urge to go against the will of Jehovah God ( Psalm 83:18)
God Saids one thing; a Sinner is inclined to go the other way. we have an example at Genesis 3
Point: Romans 5:12-15
There is Hope: John 3:16,17; 1 Timothy 1:8-10; 2 Timothy 3:16,17; John 17:3
Jehovah ( psalm 83:18) is not looking for perfection. he is like a father and we are like his Children prone to mistakes.
our father is looking for us to tell him the truth, to be humble, to cry to him and repent especially if it's something that
is to difficult to handle on our own. as sinners we need the spirit of God in order to have self-control in all things. This is why Jesus said what he said at Matthew 6:9-12; 1 Peter 5:6-11
Hi Cheryl1655. Just to add to these other good comments, in reference to "...even the Son of man which is in heaven", I agree that it should be left to how one chooses to read & understand that statement in John 3:13. To help me with this, I consider John 3:11, 12 as well: "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"
I note that Jesus is stating, "WE speak...WE have seen...OUR witness". Who are the WE/OUR here? Surely it can't be anyone on Earth, as none present with Jesus or even seen in the Old Testament have ever spoken of or seen those mysterious things of Heaven. But 'in very Truth', Jesus states that there is a Divine Presence both in Heaven & now on Earth that has made such mysteries & Truths known to man.
So when Jesus states, "...even the Son of Man which is in heaven", the already perplexed Nicodemus is hit with an almost uncomprehendable Character of God & this Man before him stating that He was in Heaven, now here as a Son of man, who still has a Presence in Heaven. Even though there is insufficient Scripture to state precisely what Jesus was trying to indicate to Nicodemus, it seems that we won't be far from the Truth, that Jesus by coming to Earth, laid aside His Glory (see John 17:5; Philippians 2:7; Hebrews 2:9), so that He could take on flesh & live as a Man. But where did He leave His Glory, that He take on a position beneath God's Holy angels? I feel that this Divine Person of the Godhead left that part of His Majesty in Heaven, while He walked this Earth as the humble Servant of men. To Nicodemus this would have been inconceivable, but Jesus' always held His Presence in Heaven as on Earth - His contact with His Father & His angels were separated only by position, not by relationship & possession. Likewise, our relationship to the Godhead must also be.
Jimbob throw that concordence away....Its the H.G. that is the real Saint...We are just a joint heir with the H.G as the gift of God is the H.G. the only real Saint...And elect not man as Paul said in my flesh dwells no good thing....We are not saints but we can be a joint heir with a Saint which is the GIFT OF GOD THE H.G...If we are bornagain ....And this Saint has to be born in us....Thats y Jesus is saying that which is born of the spirit is spirit the H.G....We be just a joint heir if we are the bride....I know that the bible refers to many as Saints but it was b/c they had the gift of the H.G.....The flesh is just a joint heir with Christ the H.G.... Romans 8:17....We are heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. ( the gift of the H.G.)....Let the anointing teach you which is the H.G. the gift of God....You need no man teach you the anointing you have received of him the H.G. will teach you all things... 1 john 2:27....And he is our only Saint and gift of God....At the marriage supper of the lamb we will all be made 1 with the H.G....The flesh and the spirit will be made 1...That was his prayer in john 17:21 That we might all be made 1...
Several passages in Revelation refer to those who "dwell on the earth." These are those who are not written in the Book of Life and who will take the Mark of the Beast.
All of us are asked to be in the world but not of it as believers. ( John 17:15-21). That which appeals to the flesh is not of God and the flesh and the Spirit contend with one another ( Galatians 5:17). We understand this in light of the fact that we are not to think that anything done in the flesh is inherently evil as those who accused Christ of being a "glutton and winebibber" ( Matt. 11:19). Marriage is honorable and the marriage bed undefiled ( Heb. 13:4); but God judges all those who go outside of the parameters God has set forth as indicated by the rest of that passage. We see more of this in the book of Corinthians ( 1 Cor. 10:31) to give glory to God whenever we eat or drink or do anything else.
In this world; the spirits of disobedience ( Eph. 2:2) and the Prince of the power of the air were who we were subjected to. 2 Corinthians 4:4 states that the god of this world has blinded men's minds to the truth. We should as believers hold fast to the promises of God in regard to verses such as Luke 10:19 as to Christ's victory over Satan and his minions. What the enemy can do; however is gain legal access into our lives with unconfessed sins; and destroy our testimony. I think I can say fairly confidently that the warfare in Ephesians 6 is almost always increased once one truly is saved; and particularly when the Lord has great plans in our lives. Great; of course is defined as important for His Kingdom not necessarily seen or acknowledged by anyone; or just a few should we need encouragement.
We should expect that much physical; emotional and mental suffering in our lives is due to interference from these entities. It is hard to extricate spiritual warfare in regard to the wounds on the soul and those on our physical body. I will elaborate on victory in future posts.
Hi Justjay & thanks for your question. You asked about Mark 14:17-21 about Judas' betrayal of Jesus. In John 17:6-19 (in Jesus' prayer to His Father, just prior to this betrayal by Judas), Jesus prayed for His disciples & in particular v12: "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled". Jesus, of course was referring to Judas as the "son of perdition", but was declaring that Judas, as a disciple, would be lost because of the fulfillment of Scripture.
So yes, God is All-knowing & certainly Jesus knew about Judas' betrayal even before he was appointed amongst the twelve, but through that Divine Knowledge, the prophecy had already been made approx 1000 years earlier (in Psalm 41:9). See also Psalm 55:12-15; Psalm 69:25; and Psalm 109:6-8: these passages also allude to the one who would ultimately betray Jesus. And the Apostle Peter also refers to Psalm 69:25, in his message in Acts 1:20. So yes, this betrayal was pre-ordained, in accordance with prophecy. And there could be other reasons why God permitted/ordained this to happen. Reasons such as proof of the veracity of God's Word & Power, a powerful testimony to the disciples of true discipleship & faithfulness in spite of doubts & Satan's taunts, and even to Judas, of his harboring great sin & allowing it to be manifested to the point of killing the Messiah. Jesus had to die to pay the ransom for our sins, "but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born" ( Matthew 26:24).
Should we then feel sorry for Judas, thinking 'this poor man was ordained to pre-mature death & had not choice in the matter?' No, Judas acted because of his own wickedness (not forced upon him by God); Judas because of his sin, fulfilled the prophecy & Plan of God for him & Jesus' Sacrifice.
In the gospels we read the story of Judas. A disciple, an apostle, he baprized new believers in water like the rest ( John 4:2), he was given authority over the Spirit to perform miracles and healings ( Luke 9:6), cast out demons, he was sent by Jesus to preach salvation ( Matthew 10:5-15), he was told that he, together with the rest, in the Judgement will sit on a throne and judge the 12 tribes of Israel. But in the midtime Judas allowed his heart to love money more than Jesus and eventually his love for money led him to become Jesus' trator. Why? Because his heart deceived him. People who hold the belief that salvation can not be lost try to overcome Judas' example by saying that he wasn't actually saved. for that they use the verse in John 17:12, "While I (Jesus) was with them (the 12) in the world, I kept them in thy name (Saviour): those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." So a sinful man, not saved, was sent to preach salvation to Israel? Was given gifts of healing and performing miracles? A son of satan who casts out devils? Really? No, not really. What Jesus says is that he managed to save all but Judas because Judas took the decision for himself to become a traitor, a son of perdition, like the Scriptures said and so the prophesy was fulfilled. And something else. Even if Judas never betrayed Jesus, still the Jews would capture Him sometime, one way or another. Judas wasn't their only choise.
Another example of a man who let his heart deceive him is Demas, a companion of Paul during his ministry. But eventually he left Paul, 2 Timothy 4:10, "For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; ...". Demas eventually loved the sinful world more than God and left Paul. Who was Demas? We don't really know. But we know that Paul was very strict when he selected his partners in the ministry.
The resurrection made all things NEW, including your name.
Isaiah 62:2 ...... and thou shall be called by a new name ....
Revelation 2:17 ...and I will give him a white stone, and in that stone a NEW NAME written, which no man knoweth but he that RECEIVETH it.
Revelation 3:12 ...and i will write upon him my new name ...
If you don't YET know your new name, the word of God tells you what that name is.
You were married to Christ by his and your resurrection TOGETHER, the bride takes the name of her husband,
You were baptised in the NAME of Jesus.
There was only ONE BODY raised at the resurrection, and that ONE BODY was given LIFE by ONE SPIRIT.
1 Corinthians 12:27 NOW you are the body of Christ .....
Luke 8:11 .... the SEED is the WORD OF GOD .....
Isaiah 59:21 And this is my covenant with them (YOU), saith the Lord, the words that I (the Father) have put in your (Christ's) mouth, shall not depart out of your (Christ is the WORD, the SEED) mouth, nor out of thy SEED (your born again by the WORD of GOD----you become SEED) nor out of the mouth of thy SEED'S SEED (your are going to bear fruit---SEED), saith the Lord, from henceforth (the resurrection) and forever.
You are the BODY OF CHRIST.
Revelation 19:16 And he had on his vesture and on his thigh (body) written, THE LORD OF LORDS AND THE KING OF KINGS
Revelation 19:13 ...and his name is called THE WORD OF GOD ....
Revelation 1:1 The REVELATION (the revealing) of Jesus Christ .....
Revelation 1:11 .... I AM .... the first (man) ....I AM .... the last (man)
Exodus 3:13 .... I AM that I AM .... I AM hath sent ME to YOU ....
John 17:22 ...and the GLORY that thou has given me, I have GIVEN THEM ....that they may be ONE as we are ONE ...
You were given a NEW NAME, a gift of GOD, by the death and resurrecting of CHRIST.
In the first part of Genesis the creation is a prophecy of the new heaven and new earth in Revelation.
Adam was put in a deep sleep; the word uses sleep as death, so Adam DIED and God took a rib; a bone, from Adam and made a WOMAN, the same woman in Revelation 12, we became the flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone.
Genesis 5:2 Male and female created (by the resurrection and NEW CREATION) he them; and blessed them, and called their NAME ADAM (we are baptised in his name), in the day they were created.
The resurrection made all things NEW; the new heaven and the new earth, ONE BODY arose, ONE SPIRIT gave that BODY LIFE we are all that NEW BODY and LIVE by that ONE SPIRIT.
John 17:21 That they (the NEW creation) may be ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they (the NEW creation) may be ONE, as we are ONE.
All this was done before the foundations of the world.
You can't put a time line; God is eternal, no beginning and no end, the WORD always was; you ALWAYS were, you just had no KNOWLEDGE, of your being ONE with the WORD, OUR time in the flesh is to bring us to TRUTH, we are ONE with our GOD.
He is the LIGHT; the SUN, were are the MOON, that reflects that LIGHT.
Look at Genesis with the mind of Christ; remember GOD'S WORD, seeing they SEE NOT.
You quote me: Christ words out of His own mouth, which shall not pass away refutes all these words & belief concerning His 2nd coming, meaning this so call "rapture myth" The misunderstanding lies in who report will we believed,
Jesus gives His report of this present oracle here surrounding His 2nd coming. He says Matt 24:33 the door was open on the day of Pentecost, His kingdom came, the disciples became apostles, that day they were change in a twinkling of an eye. Its important to note they finally understood Jesus commendation to Mary, & chose the better part.
Jesus prayed in John 17:15, I pray not that Thou should take them out of the world, John 17:20 including us. We all can be assured that Christ prayers are answered. Jesus accomplish many things for us in His sacrificial life, one is that we may fulfill the great commission of Genesis 1:26, in truth expanding it , on earth as it is in heaven.
Friend, Jesus has already return & that by His Spirit. John14:18 2Cor 3:17 1Cor 3:16 Titus 2:11 a living personal experience in Spirit for each individual soul as His Spirit appears in everyone of us bringing us the words of salvation.
As far as your 2nd response concerning the sun, moon & the stars
It appears you maybe rejecting Light, that His Spirit has shine upon these Scriptures which are given to us, which also were fulfilled in their season.
Concerning these outward trauma, I agree, the Scripture gives plenty of examples of this, the flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, the rebellion of Dathan, etc; God makes use of His creation to discipline His creatures, noting that it like a last resort to Him, deriving from their inward rebellion, which all begins with a departure from the Truth/Light, that's known & manifested in them. Rom 1:19
Let's reverence the Light, the Anointing , John 1:9 the Spirit of Christ. John 6:63 the Spirit who speaks His words in our hearts.
In love & truth
the Rule & Guide of a Christian life
Who inspired the holy men of God to write the Bible, which the Bible points to as the Giver of all Life, that we may freely become partake of the Life of Christ, that we may possess a personal intimate relationship with our Father though His Son Jesus Christ, who will cleanse us from all sin that we may become sons of God, by which God by His Spirit makes all these thing possible.
1Cor 15:45 Job 33:4 Rom 8:9 John 10:10
The letter can not do this & was not given to do this. Meaning the Strong Concordance or what wherever else their is out there, it maybe helpful to the little children, but its not necessary, man have put them in the place of His Spirit in discerning the things of God.,..
For the Spirit is given for this very purpose to guide, convict, teach, comfort & counsel us. Jesus states, John 16:7
He bringing us into the very Life of God the Scriptures give witness too, that all the holy men & women of God enjoy by His Spirit
John 3:27 God,
For the Father seeketh such to worship Him, meaning being led by His Spirit & Truth in all things that pertaineth to this life & without His Spirit leading us nothing is acceptable to Him. Jesus said that I only say & do as the Father reveals it to Me, our Forerunner
David,
The Spirit will always point to the Life of Christ as our Example, John 17:17-19 meaning the words God's Spirit led Him to say & do, sanctifies Him & us. 1John 2:6 1John 4:17 & will alway align Himself to the Scriptures which He, Himself inspired, along with mans nobler part, "sound reasoning". His Spirit bearing witness with our spirit.
This is not against Scriptures, by no means, but fulfills them, we can't understand the truth imported by them, without the One who inspired them as Scripture plainly reveals 1Cor 2:9-14.
Job 32:8
You keep making these dogmatic statements, contrary to the Scriptures you point too!
Friend, your intoxicated. Rev 17:2 Rev 18:3,4
in L & T
I agree, also we who are in Christ shall be one to do His will.
John 17:20-23 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
God bless,
RLW
In the first instance, I would direct you to Matthew 1:18-25, which speaks of this 'Divine Birth'. The question one should ask from this passage is: 'how did this Baby named Jesus, come to be born into the world?' Your contact could well say, that He was born as any human baby is born, by human fertilization, development in the womb, & then entrance into the world. But look at verse 18: before Joseph could have sexual intimacy with his wife, Mary was found with child, not because of any unfaithfulness by her to Joseph, but that God had placed in her this Divine Seed by the Power of His Holy Spirit. And then in verse 23, Jesus' Birth was in fulfillment of prophecy that a virgin would miraculously bring forth a Son & He would be called (i.e. by his title), Emmanuel. And this Name means, God with us.
This passage alone should convince anyone that this birth was an extraordinary one. There has never been any person born into the world that would come as Jesus did, because Jesus' Birth was directly executed by God: God taking His Word, sending His Word into the World by clothing Himself (God's Word) with the flesh of man ( John 1:1-14) - for the purpose of sacrifice for our sins. Yes, Jesus was fully Human as we are, but we are the product of our parents - Jesus came from God's Own Person & not from humans ( John 17:5, "...O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was"). So yes, Jesus was "the only begotten" & also called "the Son of Man" which indicates His Humanity, but the question, 'what was Jesus' origin, given the Scriptures about His Divine Nature & His Works?'
the rapture that everyone is talking about in today Christendom is a myth, divise from a theological cemetry in Dallas Tx if I understand right & yes I meant cemetery, cemetery & seminary are spiritual synonyms
Jesus prayed, John 17:15 John 17:20
Titus 2:11-14 appearing of the Great God & Savior is the Grace of God that appears to all mankind, His spiritual appearance in everyones heart, making it possible for all the other Scriptures you quoted possible.
The tribulations are our spiritual inward trials & suffering as Christ breaks thru the darkness that we're captivated too,& redeems, delivers & translate us into the kingdom of His dear Son, through the washing of regeneration & renewing of the Holy Spirit unto the new creature, culminating the work of sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling of of the Blood/Life of Jesus within us. When were truely born again, experientially Matt 3:11,12 He gathers us unto the Garder, seeing Him spirituallly come in the clouds in great glory. We're still here on earth, but we're spiritual conscious of heaven 2Cor 2:17
The writers of the NT were speaking in the present tense, they said "we" it would be a cruel hoax to tell them to look for Him when it would be over 2000yrs later. Jesus said Luke 17:20-23 Luke 9:27 to those who were with Him then.
Luke 11:2 Luke 12:32 here & now, this is the exceedingly great glory of the Christ sacrifice John 17:21-24
In Love & Truth
Friend,
You says, Paul was an exception to the rule? Would you please prove this by the Scriptures.
You says, Jesus comes into my heart, should be taken figuratively? 1Cor 3:16,17 2Cor 13:5 Col 1:27 Ephesians 2:22 Where else could He desire to be but within our heart, the seat & center of our very being. Proverbs 4:23 1Samuel 16:17
You say this sounds strange?
Consider also John 17:21-24 the oneness & unity that God desires to have with His people, this is what God has set His heart on Jeremiah 32:40,41 & made available thru the NC; this is a God, that has said, with all His heart & soul ! Come on; have a little faith.
We're heirs of God & joint heirs of Christ, it is God Himself that is our inheritance Psalms 119:57 Psalms 73:26
You says, not by one staying home & God teaching him. This is exactly what God has done through the spiritual writing of the Quakers, specifically from 1646-1700 through the gifts Christ gave His church; in their writing I discover the intent of God's heart to cleanse one from all sin, & being united with God through Christ, which the Scriptures so manifestly declares & how God accomplishes it. Isa 64:4 1Cor 2:9 Psalms 130:5 I'm talking about that Word that is Rom 10:8 that comes by 10:17 Meaning Christ spiritual appearance within conscience/heart John 1:9 Titus 2:11 Obeying His Father commands 2Cor 4:6 which is the Treasure we have in these earthen vessels. 2Cor 4:7 to know the things that are freely given to us 1Cor 2:12
Matthew 13:30 Let them grow together (the wheat and the tares) ......but gather the wheat into the barn ....
Job 39:12 Wilt thou believe him (a prophecy of the Messiah), that he (Christ) may bring home the SEED (the word of God), and gather it (the word of God)(the SEED)(the WHEAT)(all symbols of CHRIST) into the barn (a symbol of the TEMPLE)
John 12:24 ... except a corn of WHEAT (SEED)(word of God)(CHRIST) fall into the ground (the grave)and DIE, it (Christ)(the WORD)(the SEED) (the WHEAT) abideth alone, but if it (Christ, the SEED, the WORD, the WHEAT) DIE, it (CHRIST) bringeth forth much FRUIT.
Wheat makes more WHEAT, Christ makes MORE CHRIST.
Ephesians 4:4 ..... ONE body .... ONE Spirit ....
John 17:22 .... that they may be ONE as we are ONE ......
Christ ONLY was raised from the DEAD.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIED ANYMORE: but they are EQUAL to the ANGELS, being the children of the RESURRECTION.
Isaiah 63:9 ... and the ANGEL of HIS PRESENCE SAVED THEM ....
God bless you.
There is only ONE SIN ..... UNBELIEF .....all other sins are COVERED by the blood of Christ.
John 16:8 And when HE IS COME, he (the Holy Ghost) will reprove the world of SIN .... UNBELIEF ..... the HOLY Ghost is going to rule the world with a rod or iron (truth and mercy)
John 16:9 OF SIN, because they BELIEVE NOT on me (THE WORD) .....
Most believe Jesus came for the WORKS of the cross ..... they don't BELIEVE those WORKS ....
ALL BODIES DIED (yours, mine, and Christ's) on the cross 2000 years ago; ONLY ONE BODY arose, the BODY of CHRIST.
1 Corinthians 12:27 ... NOW ye are the BODY of Christ ..... who did NO SIN .....
There is NO .... I, me, myself ... ONLY ONE BODY .... the body of Christ ..... all creation, the NEW CREATION ....
John 17:22 And the glory that thou (the Spirit that raised Christ) has given me, I have GIVEN THEM (the new creation) that they may be ONE as we are ONE.
If you don't BELIEVE his WORDS your continuing in SIN ..... if you BELIEVE his WORDS you CANNOT SIN .... your just doing what Christ WILLS and Causes you TO DO.
Colossians 1:27 ..... this MYSTERY .... Christ in YOU ......
Ezekiel 36:27 And I (the Holy Ghost) will put my Spirit IN YOU (his body) and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and keep my judgements, and DO THEM.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God that WORKETH IN YOU both to WILL and to do his good pleasure.
Most don't BELIEVE the WORD.
God is giving you eyes to SEE his truth, your Christ's BODY, he is causing you to DO his good pleasure; therefore, you; his body, CANNOT SIN, because it's HIS WORKS, not your works.
Revelation 2:26 ....and he that keepeth MY WORKS to the end, to him will I give power over the nations ....as I have been given of my Father .....
God bless you as Christ CAUSES us to walk in TRUTH.
Isa 53, Now as then, Christ walks the same path as He did then, but in Spirit, He is despised, rejected of men, we esteem Him not, He's experiences the sorrow & grief in mankind unbelief of Him by His appearances in Spirit within our hearts. He has no form of comeliness that we such desire Him, meaning; the Word spoke in our hearts is Christ in Spirit, that Word is God, John 1:1; His first works within us John 16:8 Titus 2:11,12 When we reject His reproof of correction, through unbelief, His words has finds no place in our hearts, we hidden our faces from Him, & run to other things to drown out His Voice, the tender motions of Holy Spirit in His proffering of salvation.
It is indeed Christ within conscience, the mystery Col 1:26-28 Jesus said to the Jews, John 5:39 as then now, God is a Spirit, we must come to Him in & by His Spirit John 14:6 When Jesus said; Matt 11:25 He wasn't stating the Scriptures, Pastors, bible studies etc; but to Him personally. The Scriptures are profitable as we honor them in their right place, the words of God, but not God the Word, who was in the beginning with God, before the Scriptures were. The true glory & honor of the Scriptures is they give us a true testimony of Him, & that they point us to His 2nd coming in Spirit. Hebrews 9:28 John 16:13 OT promise Isa 54:13 it is only by receiving Him in His Spirit appearance within our hearts/conscience that we receive Him, that He may work out His great salvation for us. There is no other way! John 14:6 For in the working of the operations of faith, Rom 10:17 which is in Rom 10:8 we come into relationship & fellowship with Him who suffered so on our behalf. We experience 1John 1:1-3 in the work of redemption. Trust & love is increased as we grow in Grace.
John 17:3
In love & truth
John 17:17 involves Christ's prayer for us to be sanctified; and involves His Word and the truth. James 1:23 and 24 reminds us that we need to be "doers"; and he compares a man in front of a mirror forgetting what he looks like as an example. I am not sure of the context; but I would also quote the verse from Hebrews 10:25 in this posting. The first passage shows the danger of ignoring our own walk; possibly showing us how we forget what we say; or invoking a memory that we are still with a fallen nature; the second passage also shows how forgetting to do corporate worship can also make us forget the experience.
I state this fact first because I find that no matter how long I learn the scriptures; grow in wisdom and understanding; etc. that it is in the fellowship of the saints where I once again recognize God's presence; and witness anew those with different gifts.
The danger of being prideful as to our own continued growth; particularly when it comes to learning things from other believers is one important reason to continue in regular church attendance as well as; of course witnessing with fellow believers; small groups; corporate prayer; etc.
The fact is; that as long as we dwell in this mortal flesh; there is potential to fall into sin. This is one reason we need to be careful not to idolize someone who appears to be someone mature in the faith. On the other hand; it is imperative to have others such as Paul with Timothy or Christ with the Disciples for instruction and discipleship; as "iron sharpens iron" ( Prov. 27:17). Proverbs 27:6 states "faithful are the wounds of a friend." Surely this sort of relationship is rare and needed in the church today.
As a father with a child; instruction in righteousness should bring us to maturity in our own spiritual walk so that we can go out and make Disciples ourselves as Christ instructed ( Matt. 28:19-20). We need to get beyond "decisions" for Christ that way.
Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.
I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;
Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;
As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.
Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.
This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;
It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;
Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.
In general; there is a set series of events that are going to consume the time period known as "Jacob's trouble" ( Jeremiah 30:7).
The incense of the prayers of the saints which encompass the initial scene in Revelation 5:8 prior to the seal judgments; and Revelation 8:3-4 (in that case before the Trumpet Judgments) show a sort of collective mass of prayers; either reflecting directly the persecutions on the earth at the time; or answering Millennia old prayers of saints long since forgotten by man; but held by God. (see Psalm 56:8).
Because of this; we see a difference in prophetic utterances such as Acts 21:10; and Acts 11:27-28. Such utterances indicate that the choices made (i.e. Paul heading straight to Jerusalem; preparing for a famine) certainly make these things conditional.
In Revelation it is generally structured indicating great events with associated signs and wonders that are already designed and predicted in detail. However; as with anything else there is latitude apparently for the two prophets to cause things as they wish in regard to droughts; etc. ( Rev. 11:6). Undoubtably some details are not straightforward (such as which part of the world the 1/4 die in the seal judgments). Safe to say it ain't going to be a fun time here on planet earth; that's for sure.
Looking at the Second Coming of Christ; no doubt great deception will occur with multitudes of false prophets at the time of the end. Antichrist Himself will basically act as a substitute for Christ; and will be the only man other than Judas Iscariot to be doomed to perdition. ( John 17:12; 2 Thess. 2:3). God will use him to make rulers agree to submit to his authority; as well as destroying the false "Mystery Babylon" which encompasses all the world's false religions sort of rolled into one. ( Revelation 18:17).
There are suspect individuals that certainly match many characteristics of such an individual. More in next post.
Your strengthening the fig leaf covering here!
Chris, tell me, the experience you spoke of in your car, did you pull out your Strong's concordance for understanding, to correct your thoughts or for that matter to make you aware them? Or, was it the Light of God Spirit within you, that admonish you? Ephesians 5:13;
New life equated; being free from sin, not just in & of itself, but the best part, being partakers of the Divine Nature, union with John 17:21,22,23; Jesus came to show us the image & likeness that God created man in, Matt 11:29; Gal 5:22-24; this is the true dignity & glory of our creation, & how he took dominion over the earth. Mark 6:48,49; Mark 4:39-41; Matt 17:27; etc; fulfilling Gen 1:26 & will ultimately fulfill it through His body, the church, here on earth as it is in heaven.
I have not stated; as you're implying the perfecting of the body, physically, it still remains under the penalty of sin consequences. Yet can be pure & holy, being animated by the new birth & renewing of the mind by His Spirit; John 3:3-6; 1Thess 5:23,24; "wholly", not of position only, but possession.
Part 4
The service in the temple made by hands was over as Jesus told the woman at the well, John 4:21-24. Soon in that generation, it would be physically gone and never be again. The animal sacrifices that never covered sin ended on the cross, the whole Levitical priesthood and sacrificial shadow service, Hebrews 7:11-13. Only the Messiah Himself could legitimately abolish once and forever the system of symbols that pointed forward to the atoning self-sacrifice of the spotless Lamb of God.
This was the cause of the sacrifices and oblations to cease in Dan 9:27. This unveils one of the most profound and decisive revelations of the Messiah's mission, the very goal, the things determined by the seventy-weeks prophecy, God's will, the work Jesus was sent to do John 5:36 John 17:54-6 the sixfold goal of Daniel 9:24.
In vs. 26 after 69 weeks the Messiah is cut off, which after means it is in the 70th week. The people of the prince that shall come are the judgment of God not in these 70 weeks. This connection between the coming of the Messiah and the destruction of the city is the crucial message of Daniel 9:26, 27. They had 490 years to be ready and accept their Messiah and the people of the prince that shall come is the outcome of Jerusalem's rejection of her Messiah.
Jesus related the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 to Israel's final refusal to accept Him as her Messiah, Matt. 21:33-44 Matt. 23:37-38; Luke 19:41-44. The abomination Jesus was referring to in Matt. 24:15 and Mark 13:14 was not to the future but to their near future when the Roman army would destroy Jerusalem and the Temple in their generation Luke 21:20-24.
See Part 5
Rom 5:12-14
I would agree with all except, for the last sentence, beginning with "Absolute Purity". Luke 6:40; 1John 4:17; Rom 12:1; the plain write of the words used denotes we're still living in this world.
Hypocrites; I don't believe you intentionally imply this, yet the results of your statement implying this. They did not speak of the new birth, but from the new birth, 2Cor 5:17; Ezekiel 36:25,26,27; heart of flesh; denotes our life now in the flesh. Eph 4:24; you put Him on, here; Col 3:10; The apostles lived, enjoy & possessed what they preached; Philippians 3:15,16; Again, what God required of us is to live according to the measure of the Truth that He has revealed, the apostles received Acts 1:8' Eph 1:19; Eph 3:20; Col 1:29; to do so.
You stated "has sin left them or ever leave them: Never, but they can have victory over sin; this is an oxymoron. Being born again of His Spirit alias; Matt 3:11-12; the threshing floor of the heart is thoroughly purge of the chaff. (sin nature), the spiritual old man of sin, the Adamic nature that animates the flesh. He's deny, mortify & final crucify, he's dead & self is seen no more. All by the Grace appearance within our hearts.
Friend,,,,your covering yourself, but not with the Spirit of the Lord, but with; Gen 3:7;
Your the understanding is veiled, for only the spirit of darkness would plead for sin to remain within one, after all that God has wrought & revealed to us through His Son. For he (Satan) knows that despite one's profession, though maybe ever so high or lofty, & profess with elegant words, it what one does that defines him, Rom 6:16; John 8:34; Rom 2:6;
Hebrews 9:11,12,13,14,15; do you hear what the Spirit is saying here? The flesh purified, OT, now in NT even our conscience cleanse, the heart. Eternal inheritance Roman 8:17; 2 Pet 1:4; John 17:21-23;
Therefore, 2Cor 7:1;
In Love & Truth
Frankie J
"what I believe the Bible declares"
This is just the point David,I've been making all alone. Faith does not come by reading, studying, pastor preaching, Sunday school, etc: Its comes by Rom 10:17; this is the faith that Paul preached, speaking to you personally within your heart. These others maybe good execises to support & encourage if there inspired by Holy Spirit. But it cannot stand alone or take the place of having a personal relationship with Jesus, & this is what God has set His heart upon. John 14:21,23,26; John 17:21,22,23; Our faith is cannot be base on other people experinences, though ever be so helpful. In the work of regeneration we come to 1John 1:1-4 Here John is speaking of His Spirit appearance within our hearts, the Life/Light was manifested, Grace appearance. As we diligently hearken to His still small Voice we come to experiential knowledge of the Lord, 1John 5:20; "we have heard, seen with our eyes & have looked upon & our hands have handled of the Word of Life, spiritually, in this working out of our salvation. Hebrews 9:28; 2Cor 4:6,7; that the excellency to the Power to understand & receive the things of God, is of God & not of ourselves. John 3:27; We come to know His mind/will & good pleasure. Its what King David experience in Psalm 119:130; it what made him more wiser than his teacher Psalms 119:99; it was his Psalm 119:105; Psalm 123:2; Psalm 59:9; Psalm 69:3 & he commands his soul to wait upon the Lord Psalm 62:5; its call in Scripture the Key of David, Rev 3:7; He alone can Rev 5:2,5; Isa 22:22: He is the Treasure we have in these earthen vessel. Col 1:26,27,28; 1 Cor 2:12;
Blessing to you, you have a great desire & a zeal David.
in Love & Truth
Frankie J
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God CANNOT commit sin, for his SEED (GOD) remaineth in him, and he CANNOT SIN because he is born of God.
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my Spirit (God is Spirit) in YOU and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgements and DO them.
The kingdom of God only COMES to you if you believe what the word says.
Matthew 12:28 But if I (the Spirit of TRUTH) cast out devils (the spirit of deception) by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has COME unto you.
Was Paul saying something different; or, was he agreeing agreeing that is GOD IN YOU; HIS flesh and bone, that keeps you from sinning and not of yourself (your DEAD) only a NEW CREATION exist.
When you BELIEVE you are going to keep sinning in this life, then your going to keep sinning.
Matthew 8:13 .... and as thou hast BELIEVE, so be it done unto you ........
Do you BELIEVE you are a NEW CREATION, the flesh and bone OF CHRIST?
John 17:22 And the glory that thou has given me, I have GIVEN them, that they may be ONE as we are ONE.
If you don't believe that scripture, then the Kingdom of God has not YET COME to you.
God bless you
21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
22 It is GOD that sitteth upon the circle of the Earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; ...
That said, we must remember what JESUS said from His own existence: - John 17:4-5KJV: as follow:
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. ( John 1:3, and 5:17, and Hebrews 1:1-2KJV testify about this that JESUS said. Take a look.)
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the WORLD was. (John the Baptist, the angel of the LORD, testified about this, saying: John 1:18KJV- 18 No man hath seen GOD at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.)
Paul testified, saying: Colossians 1:14-16KJV:
14 In JESUS we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the INVISIBLE GOD -the Word- the Word is GOD- , the firstborn of every creature (the Word made flesh):
16 For by Him -by JESUS- were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: ( John 1:3, and 5:17, and Hebrews 1:1-2 confirm)
John 17:22 The glory that thou hast given me, I have GIVEN them; that they my be ONE, as we are ONE.
Oh! the grace of God that is given to man.
God bless you
Hello everyone, Had an interesting question asked at our men's Bible group. " Our we sinners because we sin, or do we sin because where're sinners". Would like to hear your comments based from the Bible . Thank you
MountHoreb Response to Leoj:
When reading the bible, A Sinner is someone who has a leaning or urge to go against the will of Jehovah God ( Psalm 83:18)
God Saids one thing; a Sinner is inclined to go the other way. we have an example at Genesis 3
Point: Romans 5:12-15
There is Hope: John 3:16,17; 1 Timothy 1:8-10; 2 Timothy 3:16,17; John 17:3
Jehovah ( psalm 83:18) is not looking for perfection. he is like a father and we are like his Children prone to mistakes.
our father is looking for us to tell him the truth, to be humble, to cry to him and repent especially if it's something that
is to difficult to handle on our own. as sinners we need the spirit of God in order to have self-control in all things. This is why Jesus said what he said at Matthew 6:9-12; 1 Peter 5:6-11
Point: Luke 24:45-48; Romans 7:7-25
Hope these scriptures help. Thanks
I note that Jesus is stating, "WE speak...WE have seen...OUR witness". Who are the WE/OUR here? Surely it can't be anyone on Earth, as none present with Jesus or even seen in the Old Testament have ever spoken of or seen those mysterious things of Heaven. But 'in very Truth', Jesus states that there is a Divine Presence both in Heaven & now on Earth that has made such mysteries & Truths known to man.
So when Jesus states, "...even the Son of Man which is in heaven", the already perplexed Nicodemus is hit with an almost uncomprehendable Character of God & this Man before him stating that He was in Heaven, now here as a Son of man, who still has a Presence in Heaven. Even though there is insufficient Scripture to state precisely what Jesus was trying to indicate to Nicodemus, it seems that we won't be far from the Truth, that Jesus by coming to Earth, laid aside His Glory (see John 17:5; Philippians 2:7; Hebrews 2:9), so that He could take on flesh & live as a Man. But where did He leave His Glory, that He take on a position beneath God's Holy angels? I feel that this Divine Person of the Godhead left that part of His Majesty in Heaven, while He walked this Earth as the humble Servant of men. To Nicodemus this would have been inconceivable, but Jesus' always held His Presence in Heaven as on Earth - His contact with His Father & His angels were separated only by position, not by relationship & possession. Likewise, our relationship to the Godhead must also be.
All of us are asked to be in the world but not of it as believers. ( John 17:15-21). That which appeals to the flesh is not of God and the flesh and the Spirit contend with one another ( Galatians 5:17). We understand this in light of the fact that we are not to think that anything done in the flesh is inherently evil as those who accused Christ of being a "glutton and winebibber" ( Matt. 11:19). Marriage is honorable and the marriage bed undefiled ( Heb. 13:4); but God judges all those who go outside of the parameters God has set forth as indicated by the rest of that passage. We see more of this in the book of Corinthians ( 1 Cor. 10:31) to give glory to God whenever we eat or drink or do anything else.
In this world; the spirits of disobedience ( Eph. 2:2) and the Prince of the power of the air were who we were subjected to. 2 Corinthians 4:4 states that the god of this world has blinded men's minds to the truth. We should as believers hold fast to the promises of God in regard to verses such as Luke 10:19 as to Christ's victory over Satan and his minions. What the enemy can do; however is gain legal access into our lives with unconfessed sins; and destroy our testimony. I think I can say fairly confidently that the warfare in Ephesians 6 is almost always increased once one truly is saved; and particularly when the Lord has great plans in our lives. Great; of course is defined as important for His Kingdom not necessarily seen or acknowledged by anyone; or just a few should we need encouragement.
We should expect that much physical; emotional and mental suffering in our lives is due to interference from these entities. It is hard to extricate spiritual warfare in regard to the wounds on the soul and those on our physical body. I will elaborate on victory in future posts.
it is Jehovah's ( psalm 83:18) will for believers to understand and bear fruit.
2Timothy 3:15-17; Matthew 7:7,8; Mark 4:20; John 17:3
So yes, God is All-knowing & certainly Jesus knew about Judas' betrayal even before he was appointed amongst the twelve, but through that Divine Knowledge, the prophecy had already been made approx 1000 years earlier (in Psalm 41:9). See also Psalm 55:12-15; Psalm 69:25; and Psalm 109:6-8: these passages also allude to the one who would ultimately betray Jesus. And the Apostle Peter also refers to Psalm 69:25, in his message in Acts 1:20. So yes, this betrayal was pre-ordained, in accordance with prophecy. And there could be other reasons why God permitted/ordained this to happen. Reasons such as proof of the veracity of God's Word & Power, a powerful testimony to the disciples of true discipleship & faithfulness in spite of doubts & Satan's taunts, and even to Judas, of his harboring great sin & allowing it to be manifested to the point of killing the Messiah. Jesus had to die to pay the ransom for our sins, "but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born" ( Matthew 26:24).
Should we then feel sorry for Judas, thinking 'this poor man was ordained to pre-mature death & had not choice in the matter?' No, Judas acted because of his own wickedness (not forced upon him by God); Judas because of his sin, fulfilled the prophecy & Plan of God for him & Jesus' Sacrifice.
Assurance of salvation, cont.
In the gospels we read the story of Judas. A disciple, an apostle, he baprized new believers in water like the rest ( John 4:2), he was given authority over the Spirit to perform miracles and healings ( Luke 9:6), cast out demons, he was sent by Jesus to preach salvation ( Matthew 10:5-15), he was told that he, together with the rest, in the Judgement will sit on a throne and judge the 12 tribes of Israel. But in the midtime Judas allowed his heart to love money more than Jesus and eventually his love for money led him to become Jesus' trator. Why? Because his heart deceived him. People who hold the belief that salvation can not be lost try to overcome Judas' example by saying that he wasn't actually saved. for that they use the verse in John 17:12, "While I (Jesus) was with them (the 12) in the world, I kept them in thy name (Saviour): those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." So a sinful man, not saved, was sent to preach salvation to Israel? Was given gifts of healing and performing miracles? A son of satan who casts out devils? Really? No, not really. What Jesus says is that he managed to save all but Judas because Judas took the decision for himself to become a traitor, a son of perdition, like the Scriptures said and so the prophesy was fulfilled. And something else. Even if Judas never betrayed Jesus, still the Jews would capture Him sometime, one way or another. Judas wasn't their only choise.
Another example of a man who let his heart deceive him is Demas, a companion of Paul during his ministry. But eventually he left Paul, 2 Timothy 4:10, "For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; ...". Demas eventually loved the sinful world more than God and left Paul. Who was Demas? We don't really know. But we know that Paul was very strict when he selected his partners in the ministry.
It's God; the WORD, that says we will be gods.
Psalms 82:6 I (the WORD) have said, Ye are gods the children of the most high.
Are these God's words.
Just because you don't believe those words doesn't make those words not true.
John 17:22 And the glory that thou gavest me I have given them, that they may be ONE, as we are ONE.
You believe the Father and son are ONE, and they both are Gods, YET you denied that WE being ONE with the Father and son makes us a god also.
I don't understand how you can say these scripture mean something else, they are very plain and straight forward.
God Bless you.
God has given you a new name.
The resurrection made all things NEW, including your name.
Isaiah 62:2 ...... and thou shall be called by a new name ....
Revelation 2:17 ...and I will give him a white stone, and in that stone a NEW NAME written, which no man knoweth but he that RECEIVETH it.
Revelation 3:12 ...and i will write upon him my new name ...
If you don't YET know your new name, the word of God tells you what that name is.
You were married to Christ by his and your resurrection TOGETHER, the bride takes the name of her husband,
You were baptised in the NAME of Jesus.
There was only ONE BODY raised at the resurrection, and that ONE BODY was given LIFE by ONE SPIRIT.
1 Corinthians 12:27 NOW you are the body of Christ .....
Luke 8:11 .... the SEED is the WORD OF GOD .....
Isaiah 59:21 And this is my covenant with them (YOU), saith the Lord, the words that I (the Father) have put in your (Christ's) mouth, shall not depart out of your (Christ is the WORD, the SEED) mouth, nor out of thy SEED (your born again by the WORD of GOD----you become SEED) nor out of the mouth of thy SEED'S SEED (your are going to bear fruit---SEED), saith the Lord, from henceforth (the resurrection) and forever.
You are the BODY OF CHRIST.
Revelation 19:16 And he had on his vesture and on his thigh (body) written, THE LORD OF LORDS AND THE KING OF KINGS
Revelation 19:13 ...and his name is called THE WORD OF GOD ....
Revelation 1:1 The REVELATION (the revealing) of Jesus Christ .....
Revelation 1:11 .... I AM .... the first (man) ....I AM .... the last (man)
Exodus 3:13 .... I AM that I AM .... I AM hath sent ME to YOU ....
John 17:22 ...and the GLORY that thou has given me, I have GIVEN THEM ....that they may be ONE as we are ONE ...
You were given a NEW NAME, a gift of GOD, by the death and resurrecting of CHRIST.
God bless you.
In the first part of Genesis the creation is a prophecy of the new heaven and new earth in Revelation.
Adam was put in a deep sleep; the word uses sleep as death, so Adam DIED and God took a rib; a bone, from Adam and made a WOMAN, the same woman in Revelation 12, we became the flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone.
Genesis 5:2 Male and female created (by the resurrection and NEW CREATION) he them; and blessed them, and called their NAME ADAM (we are baptised in his name), in the day they were created.
The resurrection made all things NEW; the new heaven and the new earth, ONE BODY arose, ONE SPIRIT gave that BODY LIFE we are all that NEW BODY and LIVE by that ONE SPIRIT.
John 17:21 That they (the NEW creation) may be ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they (the NEW creation) may be ONE, as we are ONE.
All this was done before the foundations of the world.
You can't put a time line; God is eternal, no beginning and no end, the WORD always was; you ALWAYS were, you just had no KNOWLEDGE, of your being ONE with the WORD, OUR time in the flesh is to bring us to TRUTH, we are ONE with our GOD.
He is the LIGHT; the SUN, were are the MOON, that reflects that LIGHT.
Look at Genesis with the mind of Christ; remember GOD'S WORD, seeing they SEE NOT.
You can't use eyes of flesh.
God bless you.