Christ as the brightness of glory witnessed in his body. The logos aspect of the Son is the Witness so he explains, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."( John 5:19). So we shall see what this cloud consists of. Jesus in his prayer made clear of those whom his Father had entrusted before the worlds began. "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me."( John 17:16)
Jude in his epistle refers to them, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,/To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed." They are witnesses as the Son is appointed to judge the ungodly. (Jude vv.14-15) In short this cloud of witness are created from the Father Son relationship. The eternal Law serves the proof of their disobedience and as God is just their witness shall stand outside what Satan may bring up against. Also refer De.33:2.
We see them in the Book of Daniel, as witnesses, "And they brought him near before him./ And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." (Dan.7:13-14)
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us"(He. 12:1-2)
There have been a number of posts where I have brought up the fact that God chastises all those He loves ( Heb. 12:6; Proverbs 3:12). The alternative to that is eventually the judgment of our works; which of course without Christ leads to damnation as no one does good; not even one ( Rom. 3:11-12; Psalm 53:3).
What hasn't been discussed is the fact that those living through the same event could personally be experiencing chastisement or judgment depending on the state of the individuals in question. This can be illustrated in 1 Cor. 10:1-5 where everyone went through the sea but God's displeasure caused many to die. In fact; only Joshua and Caleb were to survive from that generation to enter the Promised Land. Moses himself could only see it from afar. This is not to say that all were lost who came out of Egypt who peerished in an eternal sense (as we see with Moses); but the pattern is there. God performed what He promised in deliverance; despite the complaints in the wilderness He provided for their needs.
This pattern can be seen in the judgments of Revelation. God uses the Tribulation to purify His people and bring a countless multitude to the Lord through martyrdom ( Rev. 7:9-11 etc). There are also those with the mark of God who may be so spiritually pure that chastisement is not really needed ( Rev. 7:1-8).
Clearly even today the attitude of someone in this life in a similar situation is vastly different depending if they are walking in the Spirit or in the flesh. Luke 12:48 shows the principle of more responsibility to those who are given much; that is we have the Spirit of God who has overcome the world living in us as saints. We have overcome the world but are still living in the world ( John 17:16-26).
We must always remember that Christ has won the war; we are in battles leading to the inevitable victory against a vanquished foe. Let your light shine therefore before men ( Matt. 5:16).
Concerning his ministry Jesus was on his last lap moving towards Jerusalem. "From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples"(16:21). He confided to his disciples what must occur there."How that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day." The transfiguration is to be understood as a preview of the glory that awaited him. It was also an invitation to his disciples including Judas Iscariot, whom he knew would betray him. In his prayer he makes it clear. "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept,"( John 17:12) Once again we read that they were to keep it a secret till his resurrection.
"Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,/And was transfigured before them."
Why three instead of 12 disciples? The Spirit has shown us the representative nature of Salvation Plan of God. Ro.5: the Spirit makes Jesus and Adam as representatives of the Law of the Spirit and law of sin respectively.The Number Three refers Trinity as well as a tag for the Son. The New Jerusalem is foursquare "On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates." and "On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates."(Re.21:16-21) We see four cardinal directions measurement of each as that of man and angel. Pearl symbolizes the soul of our spiritual bodies where man component refers to the Son. The Spirit helped us understand the mystery of one pearl of great price (13:45-46) New Jerusalem on the east has three gates and identical with the other three. The three pearls are as one. (Every several gate was one pearl-v.21)
If God willing I shall take up with this topic in the coming Year. May God bless you and keep you all in Jesus name, Amen.
"Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord."(v.51)
Jesus having explained the parables to the disciples treats each of them as a scribe 'a man that is an householder.' They had understood what the power of the Spirit could do in their missionary circuit so the understanding came from their association with Jesus as the Word become flesh. These disciples were called before the foundation of the world. ( John 17:8)
Principle of Similitude sets Jesus Christ as the bread from heaven. The body of man is nourished by food. How it is set in terms of his body spirit and soul we can apply in terms of the Word sent forth. (Is.55:11) The preacher gives us an instance."Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days." The twelve disciples are a proof to it. Their association gives them an understanding of the kingdom of heaven as never before. Jesus as the Word become flesh.
When God created man it was 'in our image after our likeness' Consequently Trinity must be compared the like compared with the like. God breathed into the nostrils and made him a living soul. So truth is knowable. Heart can be most deceitful in man of which the despair of the prophet we read here. Despair of the conflict between law of sin against the Law of Spirit he speaks as an ongoing war, "My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war."(Je.4:19) Soul, sovereignty of which rests upon God and it is the reality of man. The nacre around which the word of God builds up compares to a pearl."Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:/Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it."(vv.45-46) Man sells all as the disciples who left all behind in order to win Christ.
"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:/Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it".
Parables of Jesus are mysteries, the centre of gravity of which falls in his example. His divinity and humanity in the manner he solved the two-in-one problem made the Word doable. It is of significance that in eternity we read the holy city of God is adorned with pearls, "And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl(Re.21:21) We are considering formation of soul as one pearl of great price. Having escaped condemnation we are many members of the body of Christ, collectively soul has become merged into one. So prayer of Jesus 'that they may be one, as we are,' is our reality. ( John 17:11)
It was not simply a question of ethics or moral that directed our lives but the Spirit. Our in-house tutor held a candle so our inner man may grow from glory to glory. It learned to trust, man child of our redemption.
So when Jesus says, 'Learn of me' we are exercising faith. If Jesus could forgive his enemies so can I. He shed his blood for us and he would having fulfilled the will of his Father say'It is finished'. This is the doctrine of Jesus where his life is on the line. In perfecting the will of his Father he testified faith. There is only one faith. It is the soul representing a child of God where faith is the DNA of our Father.
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?/Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?(Mk.36-37)"
To recap: Body of Christian is to live as Christ did in his body; with the indwelling Spirit we give faith its best possible demonstration so we glorify our Savior Lord . This is Christian Living.
"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease."
He (Jesus) gave them power,
In the Prayer of Jesus we have it explained. "As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him./And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."( John 17:2-3) Their power came the Word ("Thy word is truth") so God in the Father-Son Relationship gave them certain privileges in the kingdom of heaven as such what actions they did on the earth was on their behalf. For example it conferred knowledge with regards to the Son so Jesus did not have to talk to them in mysteries.("Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven,"-13:11)The disciples were raw and untested and we shall see they were left to grow in their service with their ups and down, so in the end they were more as friends than as servants. "It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord"(v.25) Association therefore devolved from heaven where Jesus served as the Intercessor before his Father and historically began with the 12 the tag for the Gospel of Christ. The number served so where Judas Iscariot fell of another Apostle stepped into the breach.
" From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."( Job 1:7) There we have Satan's mobility to wreak havoc wherever and whenever possible.Power against unclean spirits necessitated a different approach. These spirits have no fixed abode even as Satan the prince of the power of air could go anywhere and attack the strongholds of man whenever it suited him. For this purpose Jesus Christ established the principle of Association. (10:40)
Thank you, there is no reason to post more you have answered my questions. I have studied John and all the New Testament and as you see this doctrine, I do not see it was taught in any of the books of the New Testament that we must believe it for salvation. What I do see is the only way of salvation is belief in Jesus our Lord Messiah the Son of God sent by the Father. Galatians 4:4
In John, I see a loving Son obedient to the Father who Jesus says is greater than Him. When Jesus was anointed with the Spirit of God without limit or measure the Father who dwelt in Jesus is the one who did the works. John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
All that Jesus had was given to Him from the Father, John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Thank you for discussing this with me may our love for each other overcome any disagreement.
Thank you for this discussion, it is good to hear salvation is not dependent on this doctrine I have been told in many Churches I have attended I was not saved and was a heretic and shunned.
You know Greek better than I, but my understanding is the word Godhead which was added in the 1500s was translated twice and is misleading. Godhead is in the Bible 3 times, Acts 17:29, Greek word theios which means divine, Romans 1:20, Greek word theiotes which means divinity, divine nature, and Colossians 2:9 Greek word Theotetos which means deity.
The verse Colossians 2:9, in Jesus, dwelleth all the fulness of the deity of God, Jesus was filled without measure with God's Spirit/Holy Spirit John 3:34. John the Baptist said God had told him when Jesus was anointed/baptized John 1:32-33. God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by the Spirit. God gave Jesus power and authority Matthew 11:27. In John 1:14 we probably differ, God in Jesus dwelt/tabernacled among us. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49John 14:10.
Mark 2:5-8 in Matthew 11:25 Things were hidden from the wise and prudent, Scribes, Sadducees, and Pharisees were the ones accusing Jesus of blasphemy, as we see in Matthew 9:6-8, the same event multitudes glorified God. Jesus was given full authority in Matthew 28:18 and John 17:2-3 that we should know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent, same as all the introductions, greetings, and blessings given to the followers of Christ in the New Testament were from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ and in Revelation 21:22.
All authority has been given to Jesus by the Father until the last enemy, death is put under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:25-28Revelation 20:14.
"But the importance is that everybody must settle it in their own hearts and minds about who Jesus is." So true. This has been discussed I think most know my understanding on this.
Was He just a great man? 1 Timothy 2:5Numbers 23:19 1 Hosea 11:19 Corinthians 15:21-22 Was He just a great teacher? John 3:2 Was He a great healer? Luke 4:18-19 Was He a prophet? Deuteronomy 18:18 Was He the brother of Satan? No, He is the only begotten Son, John 3:161 John 4:14. Was He Michael the archangel? No, Hebrews 1:5. Or was He God in the flesh? 1 Timothy 3:16 manifest, (make clear, make known) John 5:19. Did Peter give the right answer? Yes.
This doctrine was developed almost 400 years after Jesus's crucifixion, today in Christianity salvation is dependent on the belief in the Trinity doctrine. If that is true. Why is it not taught anywhere in the New Testament?
If Jesus is God why would God have to anoint Him with His Spirit? Did Jesus do the works and the miracles or did God the Father by His Spirit/Holy Spirit? Is salvation at the mercy of the belief in the Trinity doctrine? Did Jesus say the Father was His God? Could God fulfill the law that was made for man? Did God give Himself or His Son that we would not perish? If we say Jesus is God, do we deny the Son?
Jesus said this, John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Very little of the fear of the LORD is seen in the lives of people. Very little fear of the LORD is being witnessed among those who claim they have faith in GOD. How do I know this? Because the bible says "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of WISDOM" Proverbs 9:10 It is evident among us, that there's not too many operating under the wisdom, and guise of the LORD. What do we need? Do we need a bright light to shine out the heavens causing us to go blind before we acknowledge the only ONE true GOD? People are either too distracted, or their bored out of their GORD. Have we invited too much of the world into our lives? Jesus said in John 17:16 "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world." With that we should be less inclined from going from the things of GOD, to being godly, or holy. Is that boring to some? Probably. Thanks to so many in our pulpits, who feel the need for worldly invention rather than good old fashioned prayer, many have sloped. Some people don't even know how to pray. Prayer should be instinctive for any child of GOD. Godliness, or holiness is looked at as Old fashioned. Who told you those lies? Let me guess. If a genuine fear of GOD doesn't start to make it's way back into the hearts of believers, there won't be a single person among you operating in God's love. On the contrary we will witness a forgery, and there won't be anything solid to grasp onto. Toss me a raft, and you get a twig instead, if we even get that! No more fear of GOD can be seen in our world. It has vanished like the wind. When was the last time you bowed your face to the ground? Not in front of people, because if your doing that you have something wrong with you. Is putting on a show in front of people showing me, and everyone else how holy you are? No, you have your reward. I sigh in disgust over these facts, and they are facts. We can either get it right, and change the way we do things, or you can be like clouds without rain. Offering nothing.
"The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light./ But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!"
The single eye here is the eye of faith. "These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven"( John 17:1). The Spirit is laying emphasis on the eye of faith, which we see in the life of Elijah who laid the condition for Elisha to receive a double portion of his Spirit. "And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me./And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so." (2 Ki.8:9-10) The double portion included that of the Son and of the prophet. The first one ties up the eye of faith to the Father as a double for the Son. It is thus the Spirit has set forth the redoubtable prophet as a stand-in. The same principle we have in the brazen serpent set up on the pole in the wilderness. "And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."(Nu.21:9) The Spirit uses 'behold' in a special sense and here in past tense we see the eye of faith connecting man with the Son, albeit a symbol but determined in the divine Will as with the slain Lamb before the foundation of the world.
" Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son,"(1:23). Eye of faith of Mary believed and also the word of God. "And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. "( Luke 1:38)
Peter healed a cripple and he first made sure he had his eye of faith open.And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us./And he gave heed unto them, "(Ac.3:4-7)
Thank you for sharing your understanding on this topic. I always enjoy my discussions with you. We are in agreement that God is love. In fact, God is Agape, the highest form of love that exists. We are in agreement that God does not have pleasure in the death of the wicked. That's why He has provided a way for the wicked to be redeemed. We are in agreement that God does not want us to perish. Some take this word perish to mean cease to exist completely. Some teach annihilation. That, I do not agree with. I also don't agree that Hell is only the grave because both believers and non-believers alike are going to end up in a grave (unless the Lord comes for us first).
I agree that the bible tells in Ezekiel Chapter 18 that the soul that sinneth shall die. I believe it is the soul that makes up our entire being. Can our fleshly body exist without a soul? As far as salvation goes, did Christ come to redeem our flesh, or did He come to redeem our soul? I say that my soul has been redeemed, not my flesh. My flesh is rotten to the core! I agree that there are different degrees of punishment, but as you know, I also believe that whatever the degree of punishment is, it will be forever.
In my studies of the Greek, I have come to learn that the word for death means separation. This is why I believe that when our physical body of flesh dies, our soul will separate from our fleshly body. The body will rot and decay in the grave, not cease to exist as some say. I do not believe in soul sleep.
I do agree with you that eternal life is a promise. However, what we differ on is when this eternal life begins. For me, I believe I have eternal life right now. There are several verses in scripture that speak of eternal life/salvation being present tense ( 1 John 5:11, 1 John 5:13, John 17:3, John 10:28-30, John 3:36, John 4:14, 1 Timothy 6:12). These are just some verses that speak of eternal salvation being present, not future.
You're quite right, Shabbat Keeper, that would be the gist of my comments: "that the unsaved will be tormented eternally". I gave those Scriptures earlier on for you to look at & they all point to a time of final judgement, where those who die in their sins without Christ are consigned into an eternity of suffering. So when you get time, have a look at those verses/passages (found in my two page comment), & let us know how you read them - are they simply idle threatening words from Jesus, maybe words that we should overlook/avoid, or is there another meaning to them? I know the verses that you, Jema & others refer to, where death is seen as both a finality & a judgement. And if these verses only were there, I could agree with you. But they are not the only verses that speak of death & then eternity - there are other passages as well. So I would be interested in how you read those verses, so that I (and maybe others here) may know the way you understand & exegete the Scriptures. Thank you.
Just as an unrelated example: I've often given John 17:5, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was", asking for comment. I have always hoped that someone who rejects the Deity of Christ (i.e. Christ came from God's Person & wasn't just a supernaturally created Being) would exegete that verse for me. But so far none have come back on it. I wonder why? Simply because it (& others such as I gave you to consider about eternal suffering), are incompatible to the beliefs that are strongly held. So, I look forward to you thoughts whenever you are able. Thank you.
Yes, there is an eternal joyous life for those who submit to God, so also there is eternal suffering for those who reject Him. How do you look at these verses? Are they to be avoided, re-interpreted, just given in error, or whatever one may choose to apply to them?
These are the matters we face here in addressing core biblical issues of eternity, the trinity, second coming, etc. And they are important; how we believe them & then share the Gospel with others can prove the genuineness of their faith when turning to Christ. I believe this is one major reason that we see an over-abundance of 'spurious faith' (i.e. a faith not based on the full Gospel message of the Bible, but with a leaning towards 'turn to Jesus & all will be well with your soul & live happily ever after in His Kingdom'). This is not the reason that Jesus came from His Glory ( John 17:5) to Earth to die a sinner's death - He came to give a Divinely prepared path & a living hope for the lost sinner to not face eternal condemnation: that's why it took the Son of God to come & lay down His Life, or else why not a spotless Heaven-provided Lamb? God laid down His Life through His Son which speaks to us of Love that is truly Agape & of the seriousness of our sins before Him & the certainty of His eternal Judgement to those who spurn that Love & offer of forgiveness. I'm sorry to have written at length on this subject, as it's one that is very close to my heart, when considering the great worth & cost of our salvation, in light of the Scriptures & of my own testimony.
Where do you get such gospel that santifcstion is a life long process? It does not exist in the bible. The bible says this.
John 17:17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
The apostle Peter talked about once we have known the truth and turn away from it there is no more sacrifice for sin.
2nd Peter 2:20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[21] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[22] But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Obviously Peter was writing about people who were once santified. Acts chapter 5 Annians and Saphara two holy santified people who decided to do their own thing and obey a different voice, the voice of the devil as the man of God Peter knew who deceived them in not putting their share if the offerings as thry were supposed to.
Acts 5:3] But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
[4] Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
[5] And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
We became sanctified instantly the moment you accept Jesus Christ and his words from the Gospel of Christ.
Col 1:28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Luke 6:40] The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
John 17:23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
After:
Acts 3:16] And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
Romans 12:2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1st Cor 2:6] Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1st Cor 1:10] Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Philippians 3:15] Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Col 1:28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
2nd Timothy 3:17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Hebrews 13:20] Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
[21] Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Amen, when the preacher behind the pulpit does not believe in perfection, neither will the church. The man of God has to be perfect, unlike what we hear today unbelief.
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins."(v.21)
Here we have two names which distinguish as we ascribe deity and humanity to the Word becoming flesh.
In this context we do not find God naming Adam. In the Lucan genealogy Adam is qualified as the son of God.("Adam, which was the son of God"- Luke 3:38) The angel who appeared to Mary informs on the other hand of her child, "which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God"- Luke 1:35) One is a son because of the breath of God making him a living soul. The other signifies the Fellowship of God with Man on the basis of the Father Son relationship. This is consequential as far as salvation Plan for man is concerned. "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."(Ac.4:12)
In vv.22-23 we have another name, "That it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,/ Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." God with us is synonymous with Word which is the constitution or Law of the kingdom of God. Knowledge of the glory of God is tied up Jesus Christ. In his prayer he remarks of the glory, "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."( John 17:5)
"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." What does the face indicate? God named the firmament heaven (Ge.1:8) so heaven declares the glory (Ps.19:1) indicates a face to which the Magi could read as well as any man by faith would know the will of his Father. God showed only 'back parts' to Moses, meaning through the Law of Moses.
Good Evening, I am getting back to posting on God's MAJESTY
Pt. 2
God is exalted far above all else by nature, not because we place him in this place of esteem.
Gen. 14:22 attests that He is God Most High, as how Abraham, Isaac and Jacob knew him.
Ps. 113:5 states that God is the One who is enthroned on high. No one put Him there by appointment. He did not ascend to this position. He has always occupied this place of highest sovereignty. Jesus, in His humiliation of becoming a man, is the only one who ascended to the highest place of God. Ph. 2:9
He ascended back to the glory He always had with the Father prior to His incarnation. John 17:5
There is nothing and no one greater than He and this is eternally so.
Ps. 111:3 says that Glorious and majestic are God's deeds.
Ps. 145: tells of the glorious splendor of His majesty.
The Scriptures say that He is majestic in:
power ( Ex. 15:6
holiness ( Ex. 15:11)
voice ( Job 37:4)
deeds (111:3)
beauty (Ez. 31:7)
splendor ( 1Chr. 29:11)
authority ( Jude 1:25)
victory ( Ps. 45:4)
in raiment (93:1)
His majesty in incomparable (Ez. 31:3)
2 Thes. 2:8 says that the enemies of God will be destroyed by the splendor of His coming.
Neh. 9:5 says that He is exalted above all that could be praised.
Ps. 92:10 says that God is exalted forever.
Ps. 113:4 says God is exalted above the nations. Nothing rises above Him.
Ps. 138:2 says God is exalted above ALL things.
And who can pass up Isaiah's vision of the Lord upon His throne High and exalted! Is. 6:1 Read the way He is described here. Awesome!
Micah 6:6 tells us to bow down before the exalted God.
Let us have a high view of God, esteeming Him to be the best of all, pre-eminent in all things, the height of perfection, the One no one can supplant, the absolute sublimity of anything worthy and holy. His majesty surpasses all that any being can imagine or think. Even the angels do not know the full extent of His majesty, but cry Holy, holy.
You say you believe, but is HALF BELIEF enough to get you into the Kingdom of God or does God require TOTAL BELIEF of his WORKS.
You say you believe in the works of the resurrection.
But is belief in half the WORKS of Christ resurrection enough or does it takes total belief to OBTAIN the Kingdom of God.
I don't think you know what the kingdom of God is, YET.
What were the WORKS of Christ's resurrection:
OUR sins of the flesh were forgiven and covered by the Lambs blood.
DEATH was conquered, and IMMORTALITY, the gift of God, established, and CHRIST ONLY hath IMMORTALITY ( 1 Timothy 6:16).
Christ ONLY arose, and we as JOINT HEIRS.
Here is where you STOP BELIEVING.
Mark 10:8 And THEY twain shall be ONE flesh: so then THEY are NO MORE twain, but ONE FLESH.
So whose flesh are you, Christ flesh,
Or is Christ, your flesh.
The word gives the answer;
1 Corinthians 15:50 ....flesh and blood cannot INHERIT the kingdom of GOD .....
You INHERIT the Kingdom of God, it is not a place, it is a person.
Genesis 2:23 This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: for SHE, Christ wife, shall be called WOMAN, because SHE is taken out of MAN ( Revelation 12).
1 Corinthians 15:53 ..... this mortal shall PUT on IMMORTALITY .......
1 Timothy 6:16 ..... Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY .....
John 17:22 ..... that THEY may be ONE, as WE are ONE .....
You believe Christ and his Father are ONE.
Yet, you DON'T BELIEVE, you we made ONE with them by the resurrection of Christ.
These are not my words that you don't believe.
John 10:34 JESUS SAID, is it not WRITTEN in your LAW, I said, ye are gods ...... Psalms 82:6 .......
Isaiah 55:11 My WORD WILL NOT return unto me VOID .....but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the THING whereto I sent it.
Isaiah 28:21 ....that he may do HIS WORK, his strange WORK, and BRING TO PASS HIS ACT, his strange act.
Can you enter the Kingdom of God, ONLY BELIEVING half of God's WORD.
I pray right now that the Lord God will quickly answer Your prayer request here and comfort You in your cry for His help and assurance of your salvation and security in Him. I pray that our Heavenly Father will take away all your feelings of sadness, all your burdens of sin, and all of your worries about your standing before Him. Jesus stands before the Father as our mediator as our defense and righteousness, and we are in Him as He mediates as our Priest and King. In this way we are seated in heavenly places already, because if we believe on Him we are in Him as He says in John 14:20
"At that time (when the Comforter, Holy Spirit comes) you will shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."
And in John 14:27 Jesus says, "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you; not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled; neither let it be afraid."
May these words comfort you today, Parkerdy
You are God's child, equally loved and shared by the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. God has taken you as His treasured possession to live with Him forever. In this life we have the Spirit as our surety, our guarantee of the promise of the resurrection and life now and forever with the indwelling Spirit of God.
"All mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them." John 17:10,
May you live in the freedom, faith, and peace f o Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and His Father, and of the precious gift of the Holy Spirit. God has you covered, truly, and your sins are forgiven. You can walk afresh in fellowship with our God without guilt or fear. May the Spirit fill you with this truth today. Amen.
This is a difficult subject to discuss openly. Being one is to be united in the holy love of God. The way we can do this is to become one with His Son, Jesus Christ the only way to the Father, John 14:6. When a man and woman are married, they become one as we through faith become one in Jesus. When Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist Jesus was filled without measure with the Holy Ghost/Spirit, God's Spirit, John 3:34.
God was manifested in Jesus, John 14:101 Tim. 3:10. Jesus was the Tabernacle of God, John 10:38. Jesus and the Father are one John 10:30 and Jesus told us we can be one as He and the Father are one, John 17:20-23. Jesus did nothing on His own, only the will of the Father, Jesus was obedient to the Father, Rom. 5:19 and as you said, Jesus was sent by the Father, John 5:30. The doctrine Jesus laid out was not His doctrine but His who sent Him, the Father, John 7:16.
All things are delivered unto Jesus of the Father, Matt. 11:27 and all in heaven and earth is under Jesus's feet, 1 Cor. 15:27 and will be until the last enemy is under His feet, that is death, Rev. 20:14. Jesus said the Father was greater than Him, John 14:28. Scripture says Jesus has a God, 2 Cor. 11:3 1 Eph. 1:3Eph. 1:17Col 1:3 Jesus said He had a God John 20:17.
In the garden, Jesus prayed to the Father that the cup He was about to partake could pass if there was another way, but said not His will but the Father's will, Matt. 26:39. All the introductions, greetings, and blessings in the Scriptures in the New Testament that are given to the followers of Christ and called to be saints from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, two not three.
Rom. 1:7-81 Cor. 1:3-41 John 1:32 John 1:32 Cor. 1:2-3Gal. 1:3-4Eph. 1:2-3Phil. 1:2Col. 1:2-3 2 Thess.1:2 1 Tim.1:2 2 Tim.1:2 Titus 1:4Philemon 1:32 Pet. 1:2.
You must study the Scriptures letting the Holy Spirit the Spirit of God guide you to your understanding, not from my reply, or man.
"For all my ways are before thee"(v. 168b) links to the last section under the last Hebrew letter 'Tau'* which means Truth. This validates 'the word' ('Thy word is truth'- John 17:18) which forms the focus of the entire psalm. "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."(v.160)
Here is a penitent psalm where the psalmist confesses that all his ways are before God. "And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account."(He. 4:13). "Sheol is naked before God, and Abaddon has no covering."( Job 26:6-ESV)
"Let my cry come near before thee, OLord: give me understanding according to thy word./Let my supplication come before thee: deliver me according to thy word./My lips shall utter praise, when thou hast taught me thy statutes."
"My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness./Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts./I have longed for thy salvation, OLord; and thy law is my delight./Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me."
The penitent man rests his case: "I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments."(v.176)
*Note:Tav is the last letter of the Hebrew word emet, which means'truth'. The midrash explains that emet is made up of the first, middle, and last letters of the Hebrew alphabet.
You need to study all the verses related to Christ resurrection.
The whole gospel is about a new covenant, not a covenant of rules, but a complete new creation (covenant), no longer man as a flesh and blood being made from dust.
BUT, a new creation of man being MADE ONE with Christ, a MARRIAGE, your the body, he's the LIFE, this is the gift of GOD, eternal LIFE by your marriage to the only ONE who has eternal life, JESUS CHRIST.
You don't have to quit driving cars are watching TV, but you do have to come to TRUTH of the resurrection of Christ and what happened to all creation by his resurrection, and that takes studying his word and letting the spirit of truth, GOD'S WORD reveal this truth to you.
Your brick and mortar churches won't teach you this truth, which is shameful, they teach a doctrine of YOUR WORKS, you have to help Christ save you.
They will not believe that you were married to Christ at his resurrection, YOU WERE MADE ONE, as he and his Father are ONE.
John 17:22 And the glory that thou gavest me,I HAVE GIVEN THEM, that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE.
Colossians 1:27 ..... this mystery ..... Christ in you ......
Galatians 2:20 I am CRUCIFIED with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet, NOT I, but Christ lives IN ME ....
Notice it's NO LONGER YOU that lives, you DIED on the cross, yoru NOW the BODY of Christ.
You were married to Christ at his resurrection, YOU and CHRIST became ONE.
John 17:22 And the glory that thou (God) gave me (Christ), I (Christ have given them (you Angel), that even as we (God and Christ) are ONE, that they (you Angel) are ONE in us.
Christ as the brightness of glory witnessed in his body. The logos aspect of the Son is the Witness so he explains, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."( John 5:19). So we shall see what this cloud consists of. Jesus in his prayer made clear of those whom his Father had entrusted before the worlds began. "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me."( John 17:16)
Jude in his epistle refers to them, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,/To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed." They are witnesses as the Son is appointed to judge the ungodly. (Jude vv.14-15) In short this cloud of witness are created from the Father Son relationship. The eternal Law serves the proof of their disobedience and as God is just their witness shall stand outside what Satan may bring up against. Also refer De.33:2.
We see them in the Book of Daniel, as witnesses, "And they brought him near before him./ And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." (Dan.7:13-14)
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us"(He. 12:1-2)
There have been a number of posts where I have brought up the fact that God chastises all those He loves ( Heb. 12:6; Proverbs 3:12). The alternative to that is eventually the judgment of our works; which of course without Christ leads to damnation as no one does good; not even one ( Rom. 3:11-12; Psalm 53:3).
What hasn't been discussed is the fact that those living through the same event could personally be experiencing chastisement or judgment depending on the state of the individuals in question. This can be illustrated in 1 Cor. 10:1-5 where everyone went through the sea but God's displeasure caused many to die. In fact; only Joshua and Caleb were to survive from that generation to enter the Promised Land. Moses himself could only see it from afar. This is not to say that all were lost who came out of Egypt who peerished in an eternal sense (as we see with Moses); but the pattern is there. God performed what He promised in deliverance; despite the complaints in the wilderness He provided for their needs.
This pattern can be seen in the judgments of Revelation. God uses the Tribulation to purify His people and bring a countless multitude to the Lord through martyrdom ( Rev. 7:9-11 etc). There are also those with the mark of God who may be so spiritually pure that chastisement is not really needed ( Rev. 7:1-8).
Clearly even today the attitude of someone in this life in a similar situation is vastly different depending if they are walking in the Spirit or in the flesh. Luke 12:48 shows the principle of more responsibility to those who are given much; that is we have the Spirit of God who has overcome the world living in us as saints. We have overcome the world but are still living in the world ( John 17:16-26).
We must always remember that Christ has won the war; we are in battles leading to the inevitable victory against a vanquished foe. Let your light shine therefore before men ( Matt. 5:16).
vv.1-9
Concerning his ministry Jesus was on his last lap moving towards Jerusalem. "From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples"(16:21). He confided to his disciples what must occur there."How that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day." The transfiguration is to be understood as a preview of the glory that awaited him. It was also an invitation to his disciples including Judas Iscariot, whom he knew would betray him. In his prayer he makes it clear. "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept,"( John 17:12) Once again we read that they were to keep it a secret till his resurrection.
"Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,/And was transfigured before them."
Why three instead of 12 disciples? The Spirit has shown us the representative nature of Salvation Plan of God. Ro.5: the Spirit makes Jesus and Adam as representatives of the Law of the Spirit and law of sin respectively.The Number Three refers Trinity as well as a tag for the Son. The New Jerusalem is foursquare "On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates." and "On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates."(Re.21:16-21) We see four cardinal directions measurement of each as that of man and angel. Pearl symbolizes the soul of our spiritual bodies where man component refers to the Son. The Spirit helped us understand the mystery of one pearl of great price (13:45-46) New Jerusalem on the east has three gates and identical with the other three. The three pearls are as one. (Every several gate was one pearl-v.21)
If God willing I shall take up with this topic in the coming Year. May God bless you and keep you all in Jesus name, Amen.
"Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord."(v.51)
Jesus having explained the parables to the disciples treats each of them as a scribe 'a man that is an householder.' They had understood what the power of the Spirit could do in their missionary circuit so the understanding came from their association with Jesus as the Word become flesh. These disciples were called before the foundation of the world. ( John 17:8)
Principle of Similitude sets Jesus Christ as the bread from heaven. The body of man is nourished by food. How it is set in terms of his body spirit and soul we can apply in terms of the Word sent forth. (Is.55:11) The preacher gives us an instance."Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days." The twelve disciples are a proof to it. Their association gives them an understanding of the kingdom of heaven as never before. Jesus as the Word become flesh.
When God created man it was 'in our image after our likeness' Consequently Trinity must be compared the like compared with the like. God breathed into the nostrils and made him a living soul. So truth is knowable. Heart can be most deceitful in man of which the despair of the prophet we read here. Despair of the conflict between law of sin against the Law of Spirit he speaks as an ongoing war, "My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war."(Je.4:19) Soul, sovereignty of which rests upon God and it is the reality of man. The nacre around which the word of God builds up compares to a pearl."Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:/Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it."(vv.45-46) Man sells all as the disciples who left all behind in order to win Christ.
"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:/Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it".
Parables of Jesus are mysteries, the centre of gravity of which falls in his example. His divinity and humanity in the manner he solved the two-in-one problem made the Word doable. It is of significance that in eternity we read the holy city of God is adorned with pearls, "And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl(Re.21:21) We are considering formation of soul as one pearl of great price. Having escaped condemnation we are many members of the body of Christ, collectively soul has become merged into one. So prayer of Jesus 'that they may be one, as we are,' is our reality. ( John 17:11)
It was not simply a question of ethics or moral that directed our lives but the Spirit. Our in-house tutor held a candle so our inner man may grow from glory to glory. It learned to trust, man child of our redemption.
So when Jesus says, 'Learn of me' we are exercising faith. If Jesus could forgive his enemies so can I. He shed his blood for us and he would having fulfilled the will of his Father say'It is finished'. This is the doctrine of Jesus where his life is on the line. In perfecting the will of his Father he testified faith. There is only one faith. It is the soul representing a child of God where faith is the DNA of our Father.
"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?/Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?(Mk.36-37)"
To recap: Body of Christian is to live as Christ did in his body; with the indwelling Spirit we give faith its best possible demonstration so we glorify our Savior Lord . This is Christian Living.
"And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease."
He (Jesus) gave them power,
In the Prayer of Jesus we have it explained. "As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him./And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."( John 17:2-3) Their power came the Word ("Thy word is truth") so God in the Father-Son Relationship gave them certain privileges in the kingdom of heaven as such what actions they did on the earth was on their behalf. For example it conferred knowledge with regards to the Son so Jesus did not have to talk to them in mysteries.("Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven,"-13:11)The disciples were raw and untested and we shall see they were left to grow in their service with their ups and down, so in the end they were more as friends than as servants. "It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord"(v.25) Association therefore devolved from heaven where Jesus served as the Intercessor before his Father and historically began with the 12 the tag for the Gospel of Christ. The number served so where Judas Iscariot fell of another Apostle stepped into the breach.
" From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."( Job 1:7) There we have Satan's mobility to wreak havoc wherever and whenever possible.Power against unclean spirits necessitated a different approach. These spirits have no fixed abode even as Satan the prince of the power of air could go anywhere and attack the strongholds of man whenever it suited him. For this purpose Jesus Christ established the principle of Association. (10:40)
Thank you, there is no reason to post more you have answered my questions. I have studied John and all the New Testament and as you see this doctrine, I do not see it was taught in any of the books of the New Testament that we must believe it for salvation. What I do see is the only way of salvation is belief in Jesus our Lord Messiah the Son of God sent by the Father. Galatians 4:4
In John, I see a loving Son obedient to the Father who Jesus says is greater than Him. When Jesus was anointed with the Spirit of God without limit or measure the Father who dwelt in Jesus is the one who did the works. John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
All that Jesus had was given to Him from the Father, John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Thank you for discussing this with me may our love for each other overcome any disagreement.
God bless,
RLW
yes, we were first married to the law: written in stones.
that was our school teacher.
we learned from our schoolmaster: that that law leads to death.
christ came and changed the law, from death to life by the life of the spirit indwelling us.
all creation (sinful flesh) died on the cross of christ.
only the body of christ arose, by the spirit of life, a new cretion, one flesh, one body.
2 timothy 1:1 ... according to the promise of life, which is christ jesus ....
john 17:22 and the glory thou gavest me, i have given them, that they may be one, even as we are one.
all by the works of christ's cross.
god bless you!
Thank you for this discussion, it is good to hear salvation is not dependent on this doctrine I have been told in many Churches I have attended I was not saved and was a heretic and shunned.
You know Greek better than I, but my understanding is the word Godhead which was added in the 1500s was translated twice and is misleading. Godhead is in the Bible 3 times, Acts 17:29, Greek word theios which means divine, Romans 1:20, Greek word theiotes which means divinity, divine nature, and Colossians 2:9 Greek word Theotetos which means deity.
The verse Colossians 2:9, in Jesus, dwelleth all the fulness of the deity of God, Jesus was filled without measure with God's Spirit/Holy Spirit John 3:34. John the Baptist said God had told him when Jesus was anointed/baptized John 1:32-33. God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by the Spirit. God gave Jesus power and authority Matthew 11:27. In John 1:14 we probably differ, God in Jesus dwelt/tabernacled among us. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49 John 14:10.
Mark 2:5-8 in Matthew 11:25 Things were hidden from the wise and prudent, Scribes, Sadducees, and Pharisees were the ones accusing Jesus of blasphemy, as we see in Matthew 9:6-8, the same event multitudes glorified God. Jesus was given full authority in Matthew 28:18 and John 17:2-3 that we should know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent, same as all the introductions, greetings, and blessings given to the followers of Christ in the New Testament were from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ and in Revelation 21:22.
All authority has been given to Jesus by the Father until the last enemy, death is put under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:25-28 Revelation 20:14.
May our discussion inspire study.
God bless,
RLW
"But the importance is that everybody must settle it in their own hearts and minds about who Jesus is." So true. This has been discussed I think most know my understanding on this.
Was He just a great man? 1 Timothy 2:5 Numbers 23:19 1 Hosea 11:19 Corinthians 15:21-22 Was He just a great teacher? John 3:2 Was He a great healer? Luke 4:18-19 Was He a prophet? Deuteronomy 18:18 Was He the brother of Satan? No, He is the only begotten Son, John 3:16 1 John 4:14. Was He Michael the archangel? No, Hebrews 1:5. Or was He God in the flesh? 1 Timothy 3:16 manifest, (make clear, make known) John 5:19. Did Peter give the right answer? Yes.
This doctrine was developed almost 400 years after Jesus's crucifixion, today in Christianity salvation is dependent on the belief in the Trinity doctrine. If that is true. Why is it not taught anywhere in the New Testament?
If Jesus is God why would God have to anoint Him with His Spirit? Did Jesus do the works and the miracles or did God the Father by His Spirit/Holy Spirit? Is salvation at the mercy of the belief in the Trinity doctrine? Did Jesus say the Father was His God? Could God fulfill the law that was made for man? Did God give Himself or His Son that we would not perish? If we say Jesus is God, do we deny the Son?
Jesus said this, John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Acts 4:12 God bless,
RLW
Very little of the fear of the LORD is seen in the lives of people. Very little fear of the LORD is being witnessed among those who claim they have faith in GOD. How do I know this? Because the bible says "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of WISDOM" Proverbs 9:10 It is evident among us, that there's not too many operating under the wisdom, and guise of the LORD. What do we need? Do we need a bright light to shine out the heavens causing us to go blind before we acknowledge the only ONE true GOD? People are either too distracted, or their bored out of their GORD. Have we invited too much of the world into our lives? Jesus said in John 17:16 "They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world." With that we should be less inclined from going from the things of GOD, to being godly, or holy. Is that boring to some? Probably. Thanks to so many in our pulpits, who feel the need for worldly invention rather than good old fashioned prayer, many have sloped. Some people don't even know how to pray. Prayer should be instinctive for any child of GOD. Godliness, or holiness is looked at as Old fashioned. Who told you those lies? Let me guess. If a genuine fear of GOD doesn't start to make it's way back into the hearts of believers, there won't be a single person among you operating in God's love. On the contrary we will witness a forgery, and there won't be anything solid to grasp onto. Toss me a raft, and you get a twig instead, if we even get that! No more fear of GOD can be seen in our world. It has vanished like the wind. When was the last time you bowed your face to the ground? Not in front of people, because if your doing that you have something wrong with you. Is putting on a show in front of people showing me, and everyone else how holy you are? No, you have your reward. I sigh in disgust over these facts, and they are facts. We can either get it right, and change the way we do things, or you can be like clouds without rain. Offering nothing.
"The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light./ But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!"
The single eye here is the eye of faith. "These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven"( John 17:1). The Spirit is laying emphasis on the eye of faith, which we see in the life of Elijah who laid the condition for Elisha to receive a double portion of his Spirit. "And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me./And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so." (2 Ki.8:9-10) The double portion included that of the Son and of the prophet. The first one ties up the eye of faith to the Father as a double for the Son. It is thus the Spirit has set forth the redoubtable prophet as a stand-in. The same principle we have in the brazen serpent set up on the pole in the wilderness. "And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."(Nu.21:9) The Spirit uses 'behold' in a special sense and here in past tense we see the eye of faith connecting man with the Son, albeit a symbol but determined in the divine Will as with the slain Lamb before the foundation of the world.
" Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son,"(1:23). Eye of faith of Mary believed and also the word of God. "And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. "( Luke 1:38)
Peter healed a cripple and he first made sure he had his eye of faith open.And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us./And he gave heed unto them, "(Ac.3:4-7)
The Book of Ezekiel takes the spirit of truth to teach you, and lots of meditation.
Ezekiel 1:1 ..... and I saw VISIONS of GOD .... Keep these word at the front of you mind ....
Ephesians 4:4 ... ONE Spirit .... ONE Body ....
Ephesians 4:5 ... ONE God .... Father of ALL (creation, the four creatures).... above ALL .... through ALL ... IN YOU ALL ....
You will have to add many scriptures from the entirety of the word to see the prophecy; which is always the kingdom of God
All creation being made ONE FLESH with Christ and his Father.
A wheel within a wheel (Christ in you)
Ezekiel 1:20 Wheresoever the SPIRIT WENT, THEY WENT ...
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit in you and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes, and keep my judgements an DO THEM.
John 17:22 And the glory that thou gavest me, I have given them, that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE.
God Bless YOU
(Part 1 of 2):
Thank you for sharing your understanding on this topic. I always enjoy my discussions with you. We are in agreement that God is love. In fact, God is Agape, the highest form of love that exists. We are in agreement that God does not have pleasure in the death of the wicked. That's why He has provided a way for the wicked to be redeemed. We are in agreement that God does not want us to perish. Some take this word perish to mean cease to exist completely. Some teach annihilation. That, I do not agree with. I also don't agree that Hell is only the grave because both believers and non-believers alike are going to end up in a grave (unless the Lord comes for us first).
I agree that the bible tells in Ezekiel Chapter 18 that the soul that sinneth shall die. I believe it is the soul that makes up our entire being. Can our fleshly body exist without a soul? As far as salvation goes, did Christ come to redeem our flesh, or did He come to redeem our soul? I say that my soul has been redeemed, not my flesh. My flesh is rotten to the core! I agree that there are different degrees of punishment, but as you know, I also believe that whatever the degree of punishment is, it will be forever.
In my studies of the Greek, I have come to learn that the word for death means separation. This is why I believe that when our physical body of flesh dies, our soul will separate from our fleshly body. The body will rot and decay in the grave, not cease to exist as some say. I do not believe in soul sleep.
I do agree with you that eternal life is a promise. However, what we differ on is when this eternal life begins. For me, I believe I have eternal life right now. There are several verses in scripture that speak of eternal life/salvation being present tense ( 1 John 5:11, 1 John 5:13, John 17:3, John 10:28-30, John 3:36, John 4:14, 1 Timothy 6:12). These are just some verses that speak of eternal salvation being present, not future.
Part 2 to follow...
I appreciate what you have said here.
I also believe that the Word teaches that the Holy Spirit is the one who regenerates us through the washing of the word.
( Titus 3:5)
He sanctifies us ( John 17:5) ( Romans 15:16) He gives us life (6:63)
The Spirit puts to death the works of sin in us ( Romans 8:13)
He baptizes us into Christ ( 1 Cor. 12:13)
The Spirit gives us access to the Father ( Eph. 2:18)
He teaches us. ( John 14:26)
There are many more things that Scriptures say about what the Spirit does in and for us.
Just as an unrelated example: I've often given John 17:5, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was", asking for comment. I have always hoped that someone who rejects the Deity of Christ (i.e. Christ came from God's Person & wasn't just a supernaturally created Being) would exegete that verse for me. But so far none have come back on it. I wonder why? Simply because it (& others such as I gave you to consider about eternal suffering), are incompatible to the beliefs that are strongly held. So, I look forward to you thoughts whenever you are able. Thank you.
Yes, there is an eternal joyous life for those who submit to God, so also there is eternal suffering for those who reject Him. How do you look at these verses? Are they to be avoided, re-interpreted, just given in error, or whatever one may choose to apply to them?
These are the matters we face here in addressing core biblical issues of eternity, the trinity, second coming, etc. And they are important; how we believe them & then share the Gospel with others can prove the genuineness of their faith when turning to Christ. I believe this is one major reason that we see an over-abundance of 'spurious faith' (i.e. a faith not based on the full Gospel message of the Bible, but with a leaning towards 'turn to Jesus & all will be well with your soul & live happily ever after in His Kingdom'). This is not the reason that Jesus came from His Glory ( John 17:5) to Earth to die a sinner's death - He came to give a Divinely prepared path & a living hope for the lost sinner to not face eternal condemnation: that's why it took the Son of God to come & lay down His Life, or else why not a spotless Heaven-provided Lamb? God laid down His Life through His Son which speaks to us of Love that is truly Agape & of the seriousness of our sins before Him & the certainty of His eternal Judgement to those who spurn that Love & offer of forgiveness. I'm sorry to have written at length on this subject, as it's one that is very close to my heart, when considering the great worth & cost of our salvation, in light of the Scriptures & of my own testimony.
John 17:17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
The apostle Peter talked about once we have known the truth and turn away from it there is no more sacrifice for sin.
2nd Peter 2:20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[21] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[22] But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Obviously Peter was writing about people who were once santified. Acts chapter 5 Annians and Saphara two holy santified people who decided to do their own thing and obey a different voice, the voice of the devil as the man of God Peter knew who deceived them in not putting their share if the offerings as thry were supposed to.
Acts 5:3] But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
[4] Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
[5] And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
We became sanctified instantly the moment you accept Jesus Christ and his words from the Gospel of Christ.
Col 1:28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Luke 6:40] The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
John 17:23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
After:
Acts 3:16] And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
Romans 12:2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1st Cor 2:6] Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
1st Cor 1:10] Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
Philippians 3:15] Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Col 1:28] Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
2nd Timothy 3:17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Hebrews 13:20] Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
[21] Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Amen, when the preacher behind the pulpit does not believe in perfection, neither will the church. The man of God has to be perfect, unlike what we hear today unbelief.
"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins."(v.21)
Here we have two names which distinguish as we ascribe deity and humanity to the Word becoming flesh.
In this context we do not find God naming Adam. In the Lucan genealogy Adam is qualified as the son of God.("Adam, which was the son of God"- Luke 3:38) The angel who appeared to Mary informs on the other hand of her child, "which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God"- Luke 1:35) One is a son because of the breath of God making him a living soul. The other signifies the Fellowship of God with Man on the basis of the Father Son relationship. This is consequential as far as salvation Plan for man is concerned. "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."(Ac.4:12)
In vv.22-23 we have another name, "That it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,/ Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." God with us is synonymous with Word which is the constitution or Law of the kingdom of God. Knowledge of the glory of God is tied up Jesus Christ. In his prayer he remarks of the glory, "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."( John 17:5)
"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." What does the face indicate? God named the firmament heaven (Ge.1:8) so heaven declares the glory (Ps.19:1) indicates a face to which the Magi could read as well as any man by faith would know the will of his Father. God showed only 'back parts' to Moses, meaning through the Law of Moses.
Pt. 2
God is exalted far above all else by nature, not because we place him in this place of esteem.
Gen. 14:22 attests that He is God Most High, as how Abraham, Isaac and Jacob knew him.
Ps. 113:5 states that God is the One who is enthroned on high. No one put Him there by appointment. He did not ascend to this position. He has always occupied this place of highest sovereignty. Jesus, in His humiliation of becoming a man, is the only one who ascended to the highest place of God. Ph. 2:9
He ascended back to the glory He always had with the Father prior to His incarnation. John 17:5
There is nothing and no one greater than He and this is eternally so.
Ps. 111:3 says that Glorious and majestic are God's deeds.
Ps. 145: tells of the glorious splendor of His majesty.
The Scriptures say that He is majestic in:
power ( Ex. 15:6
holiness ( Ex. 15:11)
voice ( Job 37:4)
deeds (111:3)
beauty (Ez. 31:7)
splendor ( 1Chr. 29:11)
authority ( Jude 1:25)
victory ( Ps. 45:4)
in raiment (93:1)
His majesty in incomparable (Ez. 31:3)
2 Thes. 2:8 says that the enemies of God will be destroyed by the splendor of His coming.
Neh. 9:5 says that He is exalted above all that could be praised.
Ps. 92:10 says that God is exalted forever.
Ps. 113:4 says God is exalted above the nations. Nothing rises above Him.
Ps. 138:2 says God is exalted above ALL things.
And who can pass up Isaiah's vision of the Lord upon His throne High and exalted! Is. 6:1 Read the way He is described here. Awesome!
Micah 6:6 tells us to bow down before the exalted God.
Let us have a high view of God, esteeming Him to be the best of all, pre-eminent in all things, the height of perfection, the One no one can supplant, the absolute sublimity of anything worthy and holy. His majesty surpasses all that any being can imagine or think. Even the angels do not know the full extent of His majesty, but cry Holy, holy.
You say you believe, but is HALF BELIEF enough to get you into the Kingdom of God or does God require TOTAL BELIEF of his WORKS.
You say you believe in the works of the resurrection.
But is belief in half the WORKS of Christ resurrection enough or does it takes total belief to OBTAIN the Kingdom of God.
I don't think you know what the kingdom of God is, YET.
What were the WORKS of Christ's resurrection:
OUR sins of the flesh were forgiven and covered by the Lambs blood.
DEATH was conquered, and IMMORTALITY, the gift of God, established, and CHRIST ONLY hath IMMORTALITY ( 1 Timothy 6:16).
Christ ONLY arose, and we as JOINT HEIRS.
Here is where you STOP BELIEVING.
Mark 10:8 And THEY twain shall be ONE flesh: so then THEY are NO MORE twain, but ONE FLESH.
So whose flesh are you, Christ flesh,
Or is Christ, your flesh.
The word gives the answer;
1 Corinthians 15:50 ....flesh and blood cannot INHERIT the kingdom of GOD .....
You INHERIT the Kingdom of God, it is not a place, it is a person.
Genesis 2:23 This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: for SHE, Christ wife, shall be called WOMAN, because SHE is taken out of MAN ( Revelation 12).
1 Corinthians 15:53 ..... this mortal shall PUT on IMMORTALITY .......
1 Timothy 6:16 ..... Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY .....
John 17:22 ..... that THEY may be ONE, as WE are ONE .....
You believe Christ and his Father are ONE.
Yet, you DON'T BELIEVE, you we made ONE with them by the resurrection of Christ.
These are not my words that you don't believe.
John 10:34 JESUS SAID, is it not WRITTEN in your LAW, I said, ye are gods ...... Psalms 82:6 .......
Isaiah 55:11 My WORD WILL NOT return unto me VOID .....but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the THING whereto I sent it.
Isaiah 28:21 ....that he may do HIS WORK, his strange WORK, and BRING TO PASS HIS ACT, his strange act.
Can you enter the Kingdom of God, ONLY BELIEVING half of God's WORD.
I pray right now that the Lord God will quickly answer Your prayer request here and comfort You in your cry for His help and assurance of your salvation and security in Him. I pray that our Heavenly Father will take away all your feelings of sadness, all your burdens of sin, and all of your worries about your standing before Him. Jesus stands before the Father as our mediator as our defense and righteousness, and we are in Him as He mediates as our Priest and King. In this way we are seated in heavenly places already, because if we believe on Him we are in Him as He says in John 14:20
"At that time (when the Comforter, Holy Spirit comes) you will shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."
And in John 14:27 Jesus says, "Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you; not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled; neither let it be afraid."
May these words comfort you today, Parkerdy
You are God's child, equally loved and shared by the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. God has taken you as His treasured possession to live with Him forever. In this life we have the Spirit as our surety, our guarantee of the promise of the resurrection and life now and forever with the indwelling Spirit of God.
"All mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them." John 17:10,
May you live in the freedom, faith, and peace f o Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ and His Father, and of the precious gift of the Holy Spirit. God has you covered, truly, and your sins are forgiven. You can walk afresh in fellowship with our God without guilt or fear. May the Spirit fill you with this truth today. Amen.
This is a difficult subject to discuss openly. Being one is to be united in the holy love of God. The way we can do this is to become one with His Son, Jesus Christ the only way to the Father, John 14:6. When a man and woman are married, they become one as we through faith become one in Jesus. When Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist Jesus was filled without measure with the Holy Ghost/Spirit, God's Spirit, John 3:34.
God was manifested in Jesus, John 14:10 1 Tim. 3:10. Jesus was the Tabernacle of God, John 10:38. Jesus and the Father are one John 10:30 and Jesus told us we can be one as He and the Father are one, John 17:20-23. Jesus did nothing on His own, only the will of the Father, Jesus was obedient to the Father, Rom. 5:19 and as you said, Jesus was sent by the Father, John 5:30. The doctrine Jesus laid out was not His doctrine but His who sent Him, the Father, John 7:16.
All things are delivered unto Jesus of the Father, Matt. 11:27 and all in heaven and earth is under Jesus's feet, 1 Cor. 15:27 and will be until the last enemy is under His feet, that is death, Rev. 20:14. Jesus said the Father was greater than Him, John 14:28. Scripture says Jesus has a God, 2 Cor. 11:3 1 Eph. 1:3 Eph. 1:17 Col 1:3 Jesus said He had a God John 20:17.
In the garden, Jesus prayed to the Father that the cup He was about to partake could pass if there was another way, but said not His will but the Father's will, Matt. 26:39. All the introductions, greetings, and blessings in the Scriptures in the New Testament that are given to the followers of Christ and called to be saints from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, two not three.
Rom. 1:7-8 1 Cor. 1:3-4 1 John 1:3 2 John 1:3 2 Cor. 1:2-3 Gal. 1:3-4 Eph. 1:2-3 Phil. 1:2 Col. 1:2-3 2 Thess.1:2 1 Tim.1:2 2 Tim.1:2 Titus 1:4 Philemon 1:3 2 Pet. 1:2.
You must study the Scriptures letting the Holy Spirit the Spirit of God guide you to your understanding, not from my reply, or man.
God bless,
RLW
"For all my ways are before thee"(v. 168b) links to the last section under the last Hebrew letter 'Tau'* which means Truth. This validates 'the word' ('Thy word is truth'- John 17:18) which forms the focus of the entire psalm. "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."(v.160)
Here is a penitent psalm where the psalmist confesses that all his ways are before God. "And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account."(He. 4:13). "Sheol is naked before God, and Abaddon has no covering."( Job 26:6-ESV)
"Let my cry come near before thee, OLord: give me understanding according to thy word./Let my supplication come before thee: deliver me according to thy word./My lips shall utter praise, when thou hast taught me thy statutes."
"My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness./Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts./I have longed for thy salvation, OLord; and thy law is my delight./Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me."
The penitent man rests his case: "I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments."(v.176)
*Note:Tav is the last letter of the Hebrew word emet, which means'truth'. The midrash explains that emet is made up of the first, middle, and last letters of the Hebrew alphabet.
You need to study all the verses related to Christ resurrection.
The whole gospel is about a new covenant, not a covenant of rules, but a complete new creation (covenant), no longer man as a flesh and blood being made from dust.
BUT, a new creation of man being MADE ONE with Christ, a MARRIAGE, your the body, he's the LIFE, this is the gift of GOD, eternal LIFE by your marriage to the only ONE who has eternal life, JESUS CHRIST.
You don't have to quit driving cars are watching TV, but you do have to come to TRUTH of the resurrection of Christ and what happened to all creation by his resurrection, and that takes studying his word and letting the spirit of truth, GOD'S WORD reveal this truth to you.
Your brick and mortar churches won't teach you this truth, which is shameful, they teach a doctrine of YOUR WORKS, you have to help Christ save you.
They will not believe that you were married to Christ at his resurrection, YOU WERE MADE ONE, as he and his Father are ONE.
John 17:22 And the glory that thou gavest me,I HAVE GIVEN THEM, that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE.
DON'T BE DECEIVE
God Bless YOU!
Since you have not yet received an answer to your question, I would like to reply.
There are two baptisms, John baptism of water, and Christ's baptism of truth and life.
The true gospel has been lost to the traditions and teachings of man.
The true gospel is what happened at Christ death and resurrection.
You were BAPTISED into the DEATH and RESURRECTION of Christ, you were baptised into the NAME of Jesus.
You DIED with Christ, you arose with Christ, you and Christ were MARRIED and became ONE, being raised together as ONE.
All creation was MADE NEW, the new heavens and the new earth, at his resurrection.
Salvation is about BELIEVING what God says he HAS DONE.
Your saved from DEATH.
1 Timothy 5:16 Christ ONLY has IMMORTALITY ...
1 Corinthians 15:53 ... this mortal must PUT ON IMMORTALITY .....Christ only has immortality......
Your were BAPTISED into LIFE of Christ by his resurrection.
John 14:6 I AM the LIFE ....
Romans 8:29 .... being predestinate (by the BAPTISM of his resurrection) TO BE conformed to the IMAGE of his son.
You were RAISED a NEW CREATION;
John 17:22 And the GLORY that thou has given me, I HAVE GIVEN THEM, that they maybe ONE, even as we are ONE.
BELIEVE what God has done.
God BLESS YOU!
God is Spirit:
Christ is a man, the BODY of God.
Christ has a GOD and a Father, but is is not THE GOD.
God is the LIFE of Christ, God's BODY.
Christ, the Body, only does what the SPIRIT, his God and Father, CAUSES him to say and do.
All creation DIED on the cross of Christ, a NEW CREATION arose WITH CHRIST.
Only ONE BODY AROSE from the grave, the BODY of CHRIST.
IMMORTAL LIFE; Christ, never again to die, was resurrected, we were JOINT HEIRS with Christ at his resurrection.
John 17:22 And the glory that thou has given me, I have given them, even as we are ONE, that they may also be ONE.
Christ is a man with a glorified BODY, he can stand in the flesh, or be the spirit of truth, physically present or omnipresent.
When you are harvested by the angels, in the twinkling of an eye, you will be the IMAGE of CHRIST.
1 Corinthians 15:53 .....This mortal (you) shall PUT ON IMMORTALITY ...
1 Timothy 6:16 ...... Christ ONLY hath IMMORTALITY ......
The gift of God is eternal LIFE, Christ is eternal life, your GIFT is being JOINT HEIR of GOD, by Christ
Christ is IN HEAVEN, at the right hand of his Father, but that heaven is the NEW HEAVEN ....this mystery ..... CHRIST IN YOU ....
Christ SECOND COMING .... like a thief, no one saw him save the one that RECEIVED HIM.
God Bless YOU!
By whom (BY Christ) HE (God) made the worlds.
Angel, Christ's BODY is YOU.
Colossians 1:27 ..... this mystery ..... Christ in you ......
Galatians 2:20 I am CRUCIFIED with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet, NOT I, but Christ lives IN ME ....
Notice it's NO LONGER YOU that lives, you DIED on the cross, yoru NOW the BODY of Christ.
You were married to Christ at his resurrection, YOU and CHRIST became ONE.
John 17:22 And the glory that thou (God) gave me (Christ), I (Christ have given them (you Angel), that even as we (God and Christ) are ONE, that they (you Angel) are ONE in us.
God Bless YOU!
Why would you say we are NOTHING.
John 17:22 And the glory that thou gave me, I have given them, that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE.
I don't think you understand what happened at the resurrection of Christ.
God Bless you with eyes to see.