Hello Shantel. I'm unsure whether your post here is in response to me in bro. Ronald's thread or not, but you seem to have referred to my question there.
You state, "Christ is the GLORY OF GOD, his Father, he is not the Father or God; but the Son of his Father and his God." What is Jesus stating in prayer to God His Father? He is asking His Father, that the Glory He shared with Him before the creation of the world, would once again be His possession. Jesus was about to go to the Cross to fully accomplish the Father's Will for Him and mankind. While on Earth, Jesus never failed to glorify His Father: He honored & magnified (Gk. doxa) God's Name to all by His Words, His Works, & His Life.
In these final moments, Jesus prays that as His Work is now finished (v4), that He too would be glorified with the Father in the fulfilment of the work of Redemption. Jesus states that He enjoyed the Glory of the Father in Heaven (which Glory God shares with none other: Isaiah 42:8). Jesus by His Coming had to lay aside that Glory ( Philippians 2:6-8) for embracing humanity & the suffering of death; and now the Work was done, that the Father would now bring Glory to His Son, that both would be glorified together ( John 17:1) in this hour that was planned for from the foundation of the world ( 1 Peter 1:20).
Indeed, Jesus Christ "is the GLORY OF GOD" as you wrote, as God's Son He fulfilled His Father's Will completely. But Jesus also laid claim to His Glory which He shared with the Eternal God before His coming to Earth. If Jesus is not fully Divine coming forth from within the Person of God, then Who was He in Heaven sharing in God's Glory (as He claimed)? To Whom else would God share His Glory? Or does Jesus' prayer make Him a liar (even before God), or as one Who is deceived, or just maybe, a direct claim to the Divinity that He enjoyed within the Godhead in eternity. Blessings & thanks for your response.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify THOU ME with thine OWN SELF with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Christ is the GLORY OF GOD, his Father, he is not the Father or God; but the Son of his Father and his God.
We, being made ONE FLESH, by the resurrection of Christ, became and heir of God, as Christ is an heir of God.
We are the children of Christ, his sons and daughters, he is our father and our god, until his Father has put all things under Christ, then Christ will turn the kingdom back to HIS FATHER and HIS GOD, and then God will be ALL in ALL, creation as ONE:
John 17:22 And the glory that thou has GIVEN ME I have given THEM; that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE.
If there is a trinity, then we also are a part of that trinity; but a trinity implies three, yet there is going to be billions.
Psalms 136:2 O give thanks to the God of gods .....
2 Corinthians 3:18 But we ALL .... are CHANGED into the SAME IMAGE ..... even so by the Spirit of God.
Study Moses and the prophets, Christ FULFILLED them.
Luke 1:2. The use of 'beginning' here is different, as Luke relates how he learned of those accounts of the Lord through those who were with Him & eyewitnesses of those events. Here it is according to Luke's receiving the information; in John's Gospel & Epistle, of eternity past. Same word - different application.
Revelation 19:13. Indeed, it is a title carried by Jesus. But the same John, who was given this revelation, also wrote that the Word of God was made flesh & dwelt among us. In John's vision, he sees the Word of God made flesh now coming in Power & Glory, His clothing dipped in Blood (whether representative of the saints martyred or of the coming slaughter of God's enemies), & the title He wears as God's Word made flesh & now coming in the same way He left. But none of this applies, when we can find no agreement whether John writes in his Gospel, of the Word (God) coming in flesh, or He Who came in flesh became God (Divine).
John 1:10. If this means that 'the world was made through & for Jesus', then we would have to make the same apply to Colossians 1:16,17 (as the same word 'dia' is used). And by doing so, the whole meaning of those verses change, especially that 'he is before all things and by him all things consist'.
Anyway, I hope I've addressed your points, but would still appreciate if anyone, a non-trinitarian, could explain John 17:5, which thus far over the years, none have obliged me. And I find that very strange. Blessings.
Brother Ronald. Thanks for those great Scriptures which clearly support your understanding & belief that Jesus Christ made His first appearance on Earth as a human babe & His Words always pointed to His Father & His position on Earth & now in Heaven He as a Son subject to the Father. And so He is, as One coming in the flesh & giving due honor and glory to God in all things. But as you would expect, I cannot leave it there.
In the past, we have discussed John 1:1, & if I remember correctly, "In the beginning" in your understanding, is 'In the beginning of Christ's Ministry' and not 'In the beginning ('arche') of all things' as pertaining to man's perception of the infinite past. So as we read through John 1:1ff, I would find it difficult to apply 'the beginning of Christ's Ministry' to the next verses 2-4, "The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men". If Jesus was the recipient & embodiment of God's Word at His Coming to Earth, how could the "the same" (Jesus the Word) be with God in the beginning and 'all things made by Him'? And to this, the apostle speaks of in Colossians 1:13-17: that 'by Jesus were all things created..that He is before all things, and by Him all things consist'.
So, I bring up John 1 here as a spring board to a few of the other Scriptures you've quoted. As mentioned, these are all great verses, yet they only show one aspect of Jesus & not in His Fullness.
You quoted John 17:1-3. Precious verses in a part of His prayer to the Father that they both be glorified, that those whom the Father has given Him might have eternal life & the knowledge of God. But just two verses on, verse 5, Jesus adds this bold statement in His prayer, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was". Onto Page 2.
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
1 Corinthians 15:25,28 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
1:1 The heaven and the earth, two worlds framed by the Word which is God. we have been called blessing #1
1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void". We were entered in the book . "and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them."(Ps.139:16)
The Spirit of God working on 'the waters' implies 'Darkness as a cloak in which God dwells.' It gave us an understanding'. In Job we read it is compared to a "swaddling band' meaning God possessed our upkeep as though we were infants. The lack of it is mentioned in Ez.16:4 ( Job 38:9)
1:3-5 first day God separated light from darkness and set us for inheritance in light in Christ. This blessing #1 is added to us being part of the kingdom of his dear Son. Blessing is counted as the first day.
1:6-8 Blessing known as the second day: waters above the firmament is called mercy while waters below is called the grace. In his earthly ministry Jesus defined it thus, "My father worketh hitherto, and I work." ( John 5:17; Lam.3:22-23) We were called in the beginning in his Son and are kept by the grace of God.
1:9-13 The worlds framed by the word of God is the kingdom of God where the world made to appear has the dry land and the seas. The Earth abides forever because the world is called the kingdom of his dear Son.(Ec.1:4; Col.1:13). The command number Three applies to the Son. The day Three is a blessing. "And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas." Holy is his name. We are urged to be holy. "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"(Ep.1:4)
Trees of righteousness in vv.11-12, "and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself" refer to the word of God which is truth and it sanctifies us. "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."( John 17:17)
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in YOU, which was ALSO IN Jesus Christ:
Philippians 2:6 Christ being in the FORM of God, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL with God.
We are the IMAGE of God, NOT the FATHER GOD, we are heirs of our Father, as Christ is heir.
We INHERIT Son ship, being made ONE FLESH by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he had not only BROKEN the Sabbath, but said that God was his FATHER, making him EQUAL with God.
Is God your Father?
Are you EQUAL with God; or, are you THE FATHER?
Christ is not THE GOD, Christ is a god, a HEIR, and we joint HEIRS.
Psalms 136:2 O give thanks to the GOD of gods ......
John 17:21 That they maybe ONE; as thou, Father, art IN ME, that they may also be ONE, IN US, that the world may believe thou has sent me.
Ephesians 4:6 There is ONE BODY (Christ; and we, as one flesh. in Christ), and ONE SPIRIT (God, our Father)......
Ephesians 4:7 One Lord (and we as lords of our Lord), one faith (of Jesus Christ), one baptism (into the NAME or Jesus Christ)..... 2 Chronicles 7:14 ..... called by my name......
Ephesians 4:8 One God, and Father of ALL, who is above ALL, and through you ALL, and in you ALL.
Many years ago the Holy Spirit stuck John 17:3 deep into me. It speaks of eternal life being knowing God the Father and Jesus the Son. Since that time I have had a burning desire to know as much as I can about Him Scripturally while I live in this life so that I can worship Him in Spirit and in truth. But this verse also speaks of a knowing in the context of intimacy. Knowing God and being Known by God. This is a relational aspect of growing in knowledge of God the Father and Jesus Christ and both the intellectual and relational knowing are wrought in us by the Holy Spirit. I never tire of learning and growing in this respect in my walk with God,
I don't want to have a "small" view of Him that does not esteem His great worth and glory.
I hope your weekend is going well.
How are your parents doing? I have been praying for you and them and the situation facing them in these last years of their life.
I had the ultrasound today but will not know the results until the radiologist examines the scans next week. I was just praying the whole time that the scan would show normalcy in all of the organs the tech scanned: liver, gallbladder, pancreas, spleen, and kidneys. Perhaps it is a good thing after all to have this done, as it gives a baseline moving forward into the rest of my years. Will keep you posted when I hear more.
Another way that God's transcendence is expressed is in His royal and exalted glory and power.
Ps. 57:5, 97:9 speak of God being exalted above all else. He always is in the most high position from creation.
Deut. 4:39; Eccl. 5:2 speaks of God dwelling in heaven above, even the highest heavens. ) Ps 8:1, 57:5) None of us CAN go up to heaven to check Him out in His sovereign majesty. God had to come down to us in the Son for us to know what God s like. John 3 :13.
Ps. 113:5 says that He Himself is the most high ( Ps. 97:9)
So the term 'transcendence" s a convenient term to use to summarize these ways in which God is "above us"; in majesty, holiness, sovereignty, exaltation, glory, perfection, etc.
God is ontologically different and distinct from us that we can only describe Him adequately with our human language (this is called "ineffable). But in His immanence, He has revealed Himself in human terms, both verbally and in Jesus, the Son so that we can be redeemed and have fellowship with Him both now and forever. Jesus said, "This is eternal life, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom He has sent." ( John 17:3)
Though God is transcendent, He has spoken clearly and in language that we can understand with certainty His nature and actions. Romans 1:18-22 says this and that therefore no one can be blameless from ignorance.
Romans 11:33-36 does speak of His mystery, incomprehensibility, ineffability, and "deep things of God" that no man can know.
We can also understand God's transcendence as referring to his Lordship over all that is, to His power and right as the King of everything He has made in all of creation, to His sovereignty and authority over all creatures and in all of His will. This speaks to His omnipotence, omniscience, and omni-presence. ( Ps. 2:47; 93:1; 96:10-13; 97:4; 99:1)
His authority is His control over the moral sphere, over all things that happen in time, all circumstances, and all that w happen.
That is a great question! I'm not sure what the right answer would be, but it seems as though you have answered your own question by stating that "Judas was a manifestation of perdition, just as Jesus was the manifestation of God."
The phrase "son of perdition" is a title. But there is no correlation between son of perdition and Son of God, even though the word HUOIS is used in both places. Since HUIOS is referring to a son who inherits the estate from his father, then what would be Judas' inheritance? Christ has inherited all things from the Father, and we are joint heirs with Christ.
It is interesting that there are only two people in the bible that are given the title "son of perdition," Judas Iscariot and the antichrist that is to come. This is who he (Judas) was and had been his entire life.
Jesus, speaking to the Pharisees in John 8:44 says, "You are of your father the devil." Physically they are from Abraham. Spiritually they are from the devil. Here in John 17:12, Judas is called the son of perdition. Physically, he was the son of Simon. But spiritually, he was the son of the devil.
Remember back in John Chapter 6 Verse 70, "Jesus answered them, have not I chosen you 12 and one of you is a devil," a demon. Jesus didn't choose Judas to be a devil. He says one of you is already a devil. I'm choosing you as already being a devil. This gives us a hint as to what Judas' inheritance will be!
The word HUIOS used by itself would not have triggered the Jewish leaders at that time. It was the entire phrase Jesus used by claiming to be the "Son of God" that the Jews considered blasphemous. To them, He was claiming to be God, which we know He truly is God come in the flesh. By Him claiming to be God, He was making Himself equal to God (which He is).
I know it have to be frustrating when you clearly stated you were going to share YOUR thoughts on some scripture from a Greek perspective and you wasn't trying to push it on anyone and yet have to be picked apart from all sides.
Don't be discouraged, you shouldn't be surprised.
In researching the scripture as suggested, I found what I thought was interesting and would like to ask you a question.
In Matthew 16:16 you mentioned the word Son used in the Greek is "HUIOS or Uihos" and that is a title of God to the Jews. What Peter was confessing was you are the Messiah and you are God.
That is also the view held by many. Also as you stated TEKNON means a child by birth. A HUIOS is someone who inherits the estate from his father. "A title of God to the Jews."
Using the word HUIOS instead of TEKNON would cause a that!
"The Huios of God" ties you to the ever lasting essence of God!
This reminds me of Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.
MY QUESTION.
When speaking of Judas in John 17:12 isn't the word Son/Huios used in the same way, as a title instead of by birth?
John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the SON OF PERDITION; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
The word perdition means "destruction, ruin, waste." Judas was not the literal son of "ruin, destruction, and waste," but those things were the identity of Judas' life. Judas was a manifestation of perdition, just as Jesus was the manifestation of God.
Before the foundation of the world God predetermined that he would destroy sinful man from the face of the earth, and conform them to the IMAGE of his SON.
Matthew 25:34 .... Come, ye blessed of the Father, INHERIT the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
He chose the cross as his instrument.
He was going to do this ONLY ONCE.
In the fullness of time God sent his SON to take all the wrath of God for mankind, not to take the place of mankind, mankind had to also died on that cross.
Three days latter, to fulfill God's words, God resurrected CHRIST, and ALL mankind was resurrected as HEIRS OF CHRIST, his IMAGE, as he is the IMAGE of the Father.
He came to fulfill all the scriptures that were written about HIM, the kingdom of God.
There is more than enough of his speaking to the multitudes to come to the conclusion what his death and resurrection would accomplish: man becoming HIS IMAGE.
John 17:21 That they ALL may be ONE; as thou, Father, art IN ME, and I IN THEE, that they may be ONE IN US; that the world may believe thou has sent me.
Mark 10:8 And they twain, shall be ONE FLESH: so then they are no more twain but ONE FLESH.
Ephesians 2:15 ..... for to make in himself of twain ONE NEW MAN ......
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, IS IT NOT WRITTEN in your law, I SAID,Ye are gods?
Psalms 82:6 I have said: Ye are gods; and ALL OF YOU the children of the most high.
Psalms 82:7 But ye shall DIE LIKE MEN, and fall like one of the princes (Satan).
This was fulfilled on the Cross of Christ.
Isaiah 41:23 Shew the thing that are TO COME HEREAFTER, that we may know ye are gods ......
15For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord,that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,with the voice of the archangel(Michael- Daniel 12:1-3),and with the trump of GOD:and the dead in Christ shall rise first:(resurrection of the believers)
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the CLOUD(same cloud of Acts 1:9-11),to meet the Lord in the AIR(on high,3rd heaven,THE NEXT TO BE ESTABLISHED BY THE ALMIGHTY GOD- Micah 4:1-8 combined with 2Corinthians 12:2-4 and Luke 20:35-36,and John 14:3 and John 17:24,among other biblical references),and so shall we(THE ELECTS)ever be with the Lord.
Matthew 25:6&10
6And at midnight there was a cry made(TURN from the sixth to the seventh Day-Lord's Day),Behold,the bridegroom cometh;GO YOU OUT TO MEET HIM.
10...the bridegroom came;and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage:and the door was shut.
Get ready
2Thessalonians 1:7-12
7And to you who are troubled rest with us,when the Lord Jesus shall be REVEALED from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming FIRE taking VENGEANCE on them that know not GOD ( Matthew 11:27),and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9Who shall be PUNISHED with everlasting DESTRUCTION from the PRESENCE of the Lord,and from the Glory of His Power;
10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints,and to be admired in all them that believe(because our testimony among you was believed)in that day.->Lord's Day,seventh and last Day
Our mission is to take the Gospel out to the whole world whether on Church on the streets in the grocery store or on this site.
It's "shouldn't" be common that any Christian would refute that.
My post, and reply to Brother Ronald was concerning our mission.
However,
let's talk about Glorifying God for a moment in relations to what I posted.
Here goes.
An article on distractions.
"Remembering Jesus' Prayer for Unity
We all know the narrative in John 17. But let's revisit it.
John 17:11
"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE.
This was the last thing on Jesus' mind before he went to the cross. He could have been praying about anything, but he chose to pray about unity.
There is the heading Gigi to this whole conversation.
When we are as one we Glorify the Lord, not when we are divided.
Look at the previous verse.
John 17:10. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I AM GLORIFIED IN THEM.
We are many members but yet one body, one Spirit, and one Lord.
We glorify the Lord by carrying on his mission in Love not chaos.
God set up these different offices within the body for that cause!
I will post a few scriptures for lack of time and space.
Ephesians 4:1-3.
Ephesians 4:4.
Ephesians 4:7-8.
And last but certainly not least. Ephesians 4:11-13.
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY, FOR THE EDIFYING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST:
Till we all come in the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature OF THE FULNESS OF CHRIST:
We have built for a mission that Glorifies Christ!!
We all know the narrative in John 17. But let's revisit it.
John 17:11
"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE.
This was the last thing on Jesus' mind before he went to the cross. He could have been praying about anything, but he chose to pray about unity.
What does that mean for us? It means we have to be willing to break down barriers that exist among us.
Because if we don't, here's what happens:
The separation becomes more important than the story. The conflict becomes more important than the command. And the division keeps us distracted from accomplishing anything that actually matters.
Before we jump to some specific sources of division, I want to also remind us of the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control ( Gal. 5:22-23). There's one thing that each of these things require: unified community.
The essence of the evidence of the Spirit working in our lives requires us to live in unity.
So let's get specific. Here are 6 of many distractions plaguing the Church today:
1) The Distraction of Preference
We all like things done a certain way. It's part of our nature.
We like the service to be in a particular order. We like the music to be a particular style (and as we all know, some people are very particular about the volume of that music). We like our schedules to look like they're supposed to. We like our community to feel a certain way.
It's okay for us to have preferences. But the moment HOW we do ministry becomes more important than WHY we do ministry, we're in big trouble.
Methods should never guide our ministry or our interactions with others. Mission should.
A conversation based on predestination and election and determining if "we're special".
Today; in the midst of competing a discussion on Psalm 2; somehow I made a fleeting statement on how I believed in Predestination (maybe related to those who perish in Revelation who take the mark of the Beast). In any event; along with a disagreement I had with one lady who is the most vocal at this Bible Study and who is a diehard Catholic she stated that we shouldn't consider ourselves "special" related to what she considered a misguided opinion that indeed I was called and chosen (her issue was that Christ died for everyone).
Of course; even a diehard Calvanist will be the first to tell you that we aren't picked because we have any value-it is simply God's grace. My point is now that we are saved and know it; how do we define this blessing now; and in the future when He exalts us in heaven? Being His adopted children now certainly is "special"; even though as Paul said he was treated as the scum of the world ( 1 Cor. 4:13). Jesus; of course whose visage was marred more than any man for our sake on the way to the cross ( Isaiah 52:14) was uniquely loved by the Father and has a singular exaltation as Creator above all of creation as He should.
As His children we are called to be different from the world and part of His Body (see John 17:15-21). We are to be "salt and light" ( Matthew 5:13-16) and His sheep hear His voice ( John 10:27-28). What draws all men to Himself ( John 12:32) started with His Resurrection; but I would argue continues with the Spirit of God convicting men that lives within His church. To not have the power of sin and the fear of damnation as a reality is something which no one apart from His children can experience.
We should stand out; not as arrogant but as truly blessed; which comes of course from our character as well as our reverence for His Word and instructions of living; prayer and sanctification. John 15:18 shows the world hates us.
The glory of saints in light is same as the glory of the Son. "I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do./And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." ( John 17:4-5). The new name tells it all. 'To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receivethit."(Re.2:17)
Another aspect of their inheritance in Trinity. He was created "in our image and after our likeness." We already covered Body and Spirit and Soul is signified by the Lamb who was worthy to break open the book with seven seals. The body the church is female, the Bride while Christ is the Head. Soul of individual saint represents his kinship to the head. The everlasting covenant explains the Son "Male and female created he them".
Glory of Power and Wisdom is the soul aspect of Trinity so How does the Spirit explain the mercy of God? "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Is.59:9-12) The rationale behind parables, similies and allegories, the entire gamut of narrative mode the Spirit uses is to give glory so soul of man is nourished thereby. Ps.1 compares soul of man as the tree planted by the water. The Tree touches heaven and rooted from the earth. Jesus was like a tender plant ,"and as a root out of a dry ground." The covenant specifies that it was good. (Ge.1:11-12). Soul has to be good if man is planted by God. "Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." Jesus said this to the Jews. (Matt.15:13)
"The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations./ Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance."(Ps.33:11-12) This explains the essentials of the everlasting covenant.
What is the counsel of the Lord? It is the divine Will, which is a mystery"(Ep.1:9-13) and St Paul refers "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:/ In whom also we have obtained an inheritance."God first trusted in the Man so his glory was his and as the Apostle says 'In whom ye also trusted," This chapter ought to be studied closely in order to understand the nature of our inheritance ("and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,"-v.18) and it fulfills all the seven days drawn in the covenant.
The counsel of the Father gives us inheritance in the light. 'Let there be light' He commanded and there was light. God "The Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:/Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son," has shown us what is his Son. He is upon where his heart is. So we have the heart compared to the apple of his eye. "For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye." (Ze.2:5) Israel in rejecting the Son is not part of the covenant. Coming to the key text, "the thoughts of his heart to all generations./ Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance," the Spirit is referring to the saints in light. God has chosen them.
Their glory is same as the glory of the Son. John 17:4-5; A new name tells it all. Re.2:17
You're welcome,Andre4risca,I enjoyed a lot your post.I thank you very much for your kind and wise reply.I confess that I was very surprised and amazed by your response.
Yes,among theologians,and believers,followers of them,there is a conception the Planet Earth is around 6,000 years old,what is a false conception.
In the other hand,the scientific conception about the age of the Earth also is empiric,I would say the empiric conception of science on Earth's age is also false and a nonsense.
That said,what matters and prevails is the Truth.Once the two conceptions above described are wrong,both are good for nothing,I will not be brought under the power of any,I will not allow myself to be carried away by either,but where I will find the Truth?This reminds me of Pilate.What is Truth?For me what matters is the Truth, exclusively.
What I know is that JESUS' own testimony about Himself is wonderful,and reveals to us in depth the mystery of His existence in the greatness of the Universe created by GOD,the Word,GOD Father,full of heavenly bodies,and here on Earth,specifically,He populated the planet with living beings,and sat in the CIRCLE of the Earth,as is written in Isaiah 40:21-22:
21Have ye not known?have ye not heard?hath it not been told you from the beginning?have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
22It is GOD that sits upon the CIRCLE of the Earth,and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers;
I remember what JESUS said from His own existence: John 17:4-5,as follow:
4I have glorified thee-Father-on the earth:I have finished the work which thou gave me to do.( John 1:3 & 5:17,and Hebrews 1:1-2 testify about this that JESUS said.Take a look)
5And now,O Father,glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the WORLD was. John the Baptist,the angel of the LORD,testified about this,saying: John 1:18- No man hath seen GOD at any time,the only begotten Son,which is in the bosom of the Father,He has declared Him.
Some seems to prefer to minister to only other believers and have very little to say to unbelievers.
They are quick to judge and tell them where they are going but don't offer them the only way of escape. The Gospel.
In John 17:20 we see Jesus praying for our ministering to them.
"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
I once copied an article on Evangelism. Here's how it reads.
Part 1.
To evangelize means to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with someone else. Personal evangelism should be the lifestyle of every true Christian. We've been given a great gift, and our Master left us with clear instructions: "Go into all the world and make disciples of every nation" Matthew 28:19. Before we can "make disciples," we must evangelize. There are other reasons, besides Jesus' command, that should also motivate us to share the greatest news in the world with people who haven't heard it:
Evangelism is an act of love. Love must be the defining characteristic of every follower of Jesus Christ John 13:35; 1 Corinthians 13:1-7. It is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, so anyone who walks in the Spirit will demonstrate love in dealing with people Galatians 5:16, 22-23. We possess the best news in the world, and love propels us to share it with those who haven't heard. Love wants everyone to have a chance to respond to God's offer of salvation. Withholding news that could save someone's life is the utmost cruelty; therefore, those who truly love God will love the people whom Jesus came to save John 3:16-18; 1 John 4:20.
Evangelism builds our own faith. Nothing helps us learn a subject like teaching it to someone else. When we make a practice of sharing our faith with those in our lives, we strengthen our own beliefs. Regular evangelism forces us to wrestle through the hard questions, find answers for ourselves, and prepare to respond to the questions of others.
I have friends that may be unsaved judging by their testimony, lives, response to certain things such as worldly things and Church things or "Spiritual things"
I have one friend in particular that has no Spiritual insight, void of peace and have no love for what he calls "Religious people" but he enjoys to dabble in the chaotic ways of the world.
When we first met I told him I was a Christian. He doesn't go to Church for reasons I won't get into but I don't think he ever knew what Christian means or how to define one.
However, I believe he found something unique about my way of life and noticed my firm stance for what I believed in.
He began to watch his steps and began to trust and take counsel from me and left off trying to counsel me with his worldly take on life and his ignorance of God.
Today he has gained a respect for the word of God.
Our relationship to the lost world is to introduce Christ.
We do that "Not by acting out a performance" but by truth, and his word.
The word and our deeds should align. (That's God's doing).
TRUTH.
They'll understand by listening and watching us that we are not perfect but we follow that which is. (Jesus )
We have a name we must uphold. We can't follow them in this world. "The darkness that it has to offer"
We are to be a light for them to lead them out of it. We are light bearers that shines light on Christ. We show a lost world that the way to the father is through the Son.
So to your friend you are here to be a leader and not a follower. Philippians 2:15.
You are to be a Evangelist to them in some way.
The Apostles set the foundation and was left here to do this and we are here to build on it.
John 17:14-21 says it best. We don't separate ourselves from them. We separate ourselves from all aspects of their way of life.
PUT THIS IN YOUR MIND - THE RED SEA AND THE RED DRAGON
I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea,and walk through a desert,walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of pilgrimage.What about GOD's people now or in this current time?
Now GOD's people will have to go through(I mean win a war)against the Red Dragon,that's exactly it,a Red Dragon yes,this is no coincidence,it was predicted millennia ago.He's a false messiah who will soon manifest,just ahead,with great signs of lying,he will manifest in Israel like a lamb with two horns,he's a Jew,of course, and he'll speak like a Dragon. Revelation 12.3-17 and Revelation 13: 11-18.
Let's get ready to go through this not easy FINAL journey of GOD's people here until the glorious,marvelous,and day of exceedingly joy - the day 1335.Amen.
Remembering and understanding that the departure of the Hebrew people from Egypt was not without first having taken place a battle against Pharaoh(by the way,there and now is Satan himself),and when the march began for the departure of GOD's people from Egypt, then the enemy army persecuted the Hebrews,the same will happen now,initially the persecution will be by the man Beast of the sea,it is he who will first persecute the Christian believers- Revelation 13:5 - for 42 months,that is the first half of the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:v.27.This POINT is only and only the half of the way -3,5 years or 42 months,the GOD's people will need to march more 3,5 years,so the murch will last 7 years,it will not be easy this journey of course.
Again:Let's get ready to go through this not easy FINAL journey of GOD's people here until the glorious,marvelous,and day of exceendigly joy-the day 1335. Amen.
JESUS in His prayer to the Father,said: John 17:15 - I pray not that thou take them out of the world, but that thou keep them from the evil.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5
The dire/horrible/heinous/hair-raising picture of the current world of Devil,as you so well have described,it is the reflection the wicked and devilish nations of the Devil's world are already descending into hell as a whole,by the power of the Word of GOD,except the sons of GOD- John 1:12-13-of course,in LITERAL fulfilment of Malachi 4:1-3:->1For, behold,the Day cometh(seventh and last GOD's Day or seventh and last millennium),that shall burn as an oven;and all the proud,yea, and all that do wickedly,shall be stubble:and the day that cometh shall burn them up,saith the Lord of hosts,that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings;and ye shall go forth,and grow up as calves of the stall( Isaiah 43:2) .
3And ye shall tread down the wicked;for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the Day(seventh)that I shall do this,saith the Lord of hosts( 1Corinthians 15:24-26).
As you know,JESUS in His prayer to the Father,said: John 17:9-10 and 15-17:
9I pray for them:I pray not for the world,but for them which thou hast given me;for they are thine.
10And all mine are thine,and thine are mine;and I am glorified in them.
15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world,but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16They are not of the world,even as I am not of the world.
17Sanctify them through thy truth:thy Word is Truth.
Malachi 3:16-18
16Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
17And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that Day when I make up my JEWELS;and I will spare them,as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18Then shall ye return,and discern between the righteous and the wicked,between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
15We say unto you by the Word of the Lord,that we which are alive and remain unto the COMING of the Lord shall not prevent (precede) them which are asleep.
(Comment:Daniel prophesied:Dan.12:1
- At that time(END of Time) shall Michael stand up to fight against the red Dragon,whose satanic religious body has 7 heads,10 horns and a TAIL- Revelation 12:9-12;
- then there shall be a time of trouble (great tribulation), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time( Matthew 24:21);
- and at that time(current time)thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book ( Revelation 7:1-14).
Furthermore,in this current time or now,even now,from now on,the Devil shall be cast down into the bottomless pit(Re.20:1-3).
Daniel 12:2-THERE WILL BE RESURRECTION SIMULTANEOUSLY
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake(according to the prophecy of Isaiah 26:19-21.Take a look), some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Comment: So, there also shall be resurrection in fulfillment of prophecy of Isaiah combined with 1Thessalonians 4:16, as follow:
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout (shall descend from the 3rd heaven,we believers are still in the 2nd heaven-Ephesians1:3-8 combined with Philippians 3:20-21),with the voice of the archangel-MICHAEL- , and with the trump of GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thes. 4:17 - Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds( Isaiah 60:8, and 1Corinthians 15:51 combined with Philippians 3:20-21 and Revelation 5:8-14), to meet the Lord in the air(in the 3rd heavenly environment-3rd heaven-far above of the current second heaven- Luke 20:35-36 combined with Matthew 25:6): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.(Where?- Revelation 11:15-18 and Re. 5:10, and Matthew 5:5, and John 17:24. Take a look).
This upper room has been prepared for a special occasion. Who had it prepared for Jesus? In the Gospel of St John Jesus assured his disciples, "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."( John 14:3). "For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God." (He.3:4) As with the colt for his Son to go to Jerusalem God had provided all thing for life and godliness for his Son. God had appointed himas the heir of all things.
When Jesus said of foxes having holes and the birds their nests he was stating his own case as a man. In the world each one is so particular to flaunt their fashionable address God chose the upper room, and the Spirit has not given as one except that whatever God chose was in his Power and glory.
Jesus assured "My Father and I are one" and wherever he walked and abode signaled his Father to testify. "Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."(1:11). Psalmist refers to this relationship of the Father. "If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there." (Ps.139:8)
The Last supper enacted in that upper room evokes for us the same betrayal when Satan betrayed the trust of the Most High. For this reason Jesus refersto Judas as the son of perdition. "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." ( John 17:12)
We have several instances where what are presented before us is a kangaroo word in terms of the eternal Word. Thus the alabaster box is a kangaroo word for the woman who prepared the body of the Son for his burial. Ezekiel thus ingesting the roll that God gave him becomes a double for the Son. "Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this roll, and go speak unto the house of Israel."(Ez.3:1)
"What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Here the man in question is Adam. By making him a living soul he is set down in the Lucan genealogy as the son of God. On day six he was blessed and placed all his creation under his hands (Ge.1:28-29). 'Male and female created him sets him in terms of his will stated as a forerunner of Christ and his bride. Only after He sanctified the day seven Eve, was taken out of his ribs. Later He brought all his creation for his review and no helpmeet was found from them. Only then God set about creating flesh of his flesh and bone of his bones. The everlasting covenant between God and Man gives us a final separation, as with Day and Night and waters above and below the firmament and it is a precursor for the ministry of reconciliation for the Word become flesh. It is to this St Paul refers, "For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church." (Ep.5:29. )Christ and his body is therefore implied in day Six. Creation of Eve in the following chapter thus creates a family tree connecting Jesus Christ to Adam in Luke Ch.3.
The breath of God made all the difference to Adam who was formed of the ground. He correctly guessed his calling and did not find anyone worthy from without. He was created in 'his likeness' which is the head. For this reason Jesus referred the deep sleep of Adam was precursor to his own death. He as the word become flesh made himself chaste. Compare his saying, "and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."(Matt.19:12) With Jesus Christ came grace and truth. What God has joined together referred to his own case. In human likeness he nourished and cherished what God had entrusted him with. His prayer makes it clear. ( John 17:11-12)
Introdution: According to 1 Thessalonians 5:9 we are not appointed to wrath. Romans 9:22 seems to indicate that there are indeed "vessels of wrath" doomed for destruction which seems to fulfill what some call "double predestination" or wicked destined for hell. We do know that all those who are NOT written in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world will accept the Mark of the Beast and in fact worship him. ( Rev. 13:8; 17:8 and also in chapter 20). Whether we just play out what is already determined; or God knows ahead of time what we will choose is something we can argue about.
Since this Antichrist is indeed the "man of sin" ( 2 Thess. 2:3) and we can also call the son of perdition in John 17:12 as representing Judas Iscariot who also was destined to betray God and be lost according to the prophecy in Psalm 55 along with the same fate for this Beast from these and other passages; we once again see God's hand in this. God is the one according to Thessalonians that sends "strong delusion" ( 2 Thess. 2:11). That is because people loved sin so much that they didn't want to repent; and we see this with the behaviors that occur during the Trumpet judgments in particular.
These facts are sobering; we know that if it weren't for His grace we would never see clearly our sin nature and hence we all would fall for this false Messiah. This world system has nothing to offer; nor does any man who is unregenerate to give lasting peace. Neither sacrifices of animals or man's own sufferings procure any justification or forgiveness of sins; and God is not impressed with any of our accomplishments. Self gratification no doubt will be a large part of the universal appeal; along with self preservation that eventually leads to the acceptance of this infamous mark. Luke 12:12 may have double fulfillment; both for the Apostles facing martyrdom and the end time saints who refuse the mark.
Scripture is clear Jesus had no sin, Hebrews 4:151 Peter 2:221 John 3:5Romans 5:12-15.
Do you believe that the Father and the Son are one as Jesus said in Jn. 17 or that He and the Father are "in" one another and if they see Jesus, they see the Father?
Both, Jesus said I and my Father are one John 10:30 and in other places, one means unity. Jesus was one with the Father not because Jesus was God but because He was filled with the Spirit and God dwelt in him, John 14:10, as we see God was in Christ 2 Corinthians 5:19
God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by His Spirit that gave Jesus the power and authority like Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered to Jesus of His Father, Jesus did not have it, all was given to Him. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49John 14:10. This is why Jesus said if you have seen me, you have seen the Father, John 14:9.
Jesus in His prayer asked the Father that we may be one, as He and His Father are one through the words of the disciples, John 17:20-23. God and Jesus will dwell in us and we in them, 1 John 4:13-161 John 3:23-24.
How is it that Jesus AND the Father send the Holy Spirit if there is only one person as God?
Jesus said He would pray to the Father to give another comforter, John 14:16, we see in John 14:26 the Father will send in Jesus's name. In John 15:26 Jesus said I will send but this is from the Father and the Spirit of truth that proceedeth from the Father. This is not a person it is the Spirit of God.
Please don't take this wrong, in the Trinity there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each Person is fully God, coequal, coeternal, and consubstantial. I'm sorry my understanding, is Scripture does not support that, Scripture is clear the Father is above all.
Thank you, GiGi, I hope this is what you wanted I am not the best at this.
His authority came from his deity. "I and my Father are one" As his Son the voice from heaven claimed his humanity so "Trinity" was not merely a doctrine but validated the everlasting covenant. " And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased./And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness." (vv.11-12) The Spirit the third office in Trinity led him as the Lucan Gospel says. He was among men but his deity was never in jeopardy. So His power and glory is his as he makes clear in his prayer, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."( John 17:5)
As the Word become flesh his presence among them was a sign. "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."( John 14:10)
He works so all the healing we have in vv.21-45 we shall fill the dots all the way to the throne of God. Thus the healing validated the blessings mentioned in Ge.1:28. "God blessed them" and it was through his Son.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. Here is another, "And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."
"And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.
You state, "Christ is the GLORY OF GOD, his Father, he is not the Father or God; but the Son of his Father and his God." What is Jesus stating in prayer to God His Father? He is asking His Father, that the Glory He shared with Him before the creation of the world, would once again be His possession. Jesus was about to go to the Cross to fully accomplish the Father's Will for Him and mankind. While on Earth, Jesus never failed to glorify His Father: He honored & magnified (Gk. doxa) God's Name to all by His Words, His Works, & His Life.
In these final moments, Jesus prays that as His Work is now finished (v4), that He too would be glorified with the Father in the fulfilment of the work of Redemption. Jesus states that He enjoyed the Glory of the Father in Heaven (which Glory God shares with none other: Isaiah 42:8). Jesus by His Coming had to lay aside that Glory ( Philippians 2:6-8) for embracing humanity & the suffering of death; and now the Work was done, that the Father would now bring Glory to His Son, that both would be glorified together ( John 17:1) in this hour that was planned for from the foundation of the world ( 1 Peter 1:20).
Indeed, Jesus Christ "is the GLORY OF GOD" as you wrote, as God's Son He fulfilled His Father's Will completely. But Jesus also laid claim to His Glory which He shared with the Eternal God before His coming to Earth. If Jesus is not fully Divine coming forth from within the Person of God, then Who was He in Heaven sharing in God's Glory (as He claimed)? To Whom else would God share His Glory? Or does Jesus' prayer make Him a liar (even before God), or as one Who is deceived, or just maybe, a direct claim to the Divinity that He enjoyed within the Godhead in eternity. Blessings & thanks for your response.
Christ is the GLORY OF GOD, his Father, he is not the Father or God; but the Son of his Father and his God.
We, being made ONE FLESH, by the resurrection of Christ, became and heir of God, as Christ is an heir of God.
We are the children of Christ, his sons and daughters, he is our father and our god, until his Father has put all things under Christ, then Christ will turn the kingdom back to HIS FATHER and HIS GOD, and then God will be ALL in ALL, creation as ONE:
John 17:22 And the glory that thou has GIVEN ME I have given THEM; that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE.
If there is a trinity, then we also are a part of that trinity; but a trinity implies three, yet there is going to be billions.
Psalms 136:2 O give thanks to the God of gods .....
2 Corinthians 3:18 But we ALL .... are CHANGED into the SAME IMAGE ..... even so by the Spirit of God.
Study Moses and the prophets, Christ FULFILLED them.
God Bless You
Luke 1:2. The use of 'beginning' here is different, as Luke relates how he learned of those accounts of the Lord through those who were with Him & eyewitnesses of those events. Here it is according to Luke's receiving the information; in John's Gospel & Epistle, of eternity past. Same word - different application.
Revelation 19:13. Indeed, it is a title carried by Jesus. But the same John, who was given this revelation, also wrote that the Word of God was made flesh & dwelt among us. In John's vision, he sees the Word of God made flesh now coming in Power & Glory, His clothing dipped in Blood (whether representative of the saints martyred or of the coming slaughter of God's enemies), & the title He wears as God's Word made flesh & now coming in the same way He left. But none of this applies, when we can find no agreement whether John writes in his Gospel, of the Word (God) coming in flesh, or He Who came in flesh became God (Divine).
John 1:10. If this means that 'the world was made through & for Jesus', then we would have to make the same apply to Colossians 1:16,17 (as the same word 'dia' is used). And by doing so, the whole meaning of those verses change, especially that 'he is before all things and by him all things consist'.
Anyway, I hope I've addressed your points, but would still appreciate if anyone, a non-trinitarian, could explain John 17:5, which thus far over the years, none have obliged me. And I find that very strange. Blessings.
Brother Ronald. Thanks for those great Scriptures which clearly support your understanding & belief that Jesus Christ made His first appearance on Earth as a human babe & His Words always pointed to His Father & His position on Earth & now in Heaven He as a Son subject to the Father. And so He is, as One coming in the flesh & giving due honor and glory to God in all things. But as you would expect, I cannot leave it there.
In the past, we have discussed John 1:1, & if I remember correctly, "In the beginning" in your understanding, is 'In the beginning of Christ's Ministry' and not 'In the beginning ('arche') of all things' as pertaining to man's perception of the infinite past. So as we read through John 1:1ff, I would find it difficult to apply 'the beginning of Christ's Ministry' to the next verses 2-4, "The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men". If Jesus was the recipient & embodiment of God's Word at His Coming to Earth, how could the "the same" (Jesus the Word) be with God in the beginning and 'all things made by Him'? And to this, the apostle speaks of in Colossians 1:13-17: that 'by Jesus were all things created..that He is before all things, and by Him all things consist'.
So, I bring up John 1 here as a spring board to a few of the other Scriptures you've quoted. As mentioned, these are all great verses, yet they only show one aspect of Jesus & not in His Fullness.
You quoted John 17:1-3. Precious verses in a part of His prayer to the Father that they both be glorified, that those whom the Father has given Him might have eternal life & the knowledge of God. But just two verses on, verse 5, Jesus adds this bold statement in His prayer, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was". Onto Page 2.
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
1 Corinthians 15:25,28 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
God bless,
RLW
The plurality in Yehovah Elohim never refers to Angels, they don't participate in the creation.
Isaiah 44:24 reads "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb,
I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF;
So in Genesis 1:1when it reads "In the beginning God/Elohim created the heaven and the earth, it doesn't refer to Angels.
So why is Elohim used and who does this Plural name consist of?
Throughout the creation process Elohim is used.
This reasonably connects Jesus to this claim. John 1:1-3 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Also in Genesis 1:26 it reads, "And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness:
Not only did Angels "not" participate in the creation, we're not made in the image or likeness of Angels as shown in 1 Corinthians 15:44-48.
Psalms 19:1 reads, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
(The creation shows God's greatness, It's his GLORY!)
Isaiah 42:8 reads, "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another,
But listen to Jesus in John 17:5, "And now, O Father, GLORIFY THOU ME WITH THINE OWN SELF with the glory WHICH I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
God bless.
1:1 The heaven and the earth, two worlds framed by the Word which is God. we have been called blessing #1
1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void". We were entered in the book . "and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them."(Ps.139:16)
The Spirit of God working on 'the waters' implies 'Darkness as a cloak in which God dwells.' It gave us an understanding'. In Job we read it is compared to a "swaddling band' meaning God possessed our upkeep as though we were infants. The lack of it is mentioned in Ez.16:4 ( Job 38:9)
1:3-5 first day God separated light from darkness and set us for inheritance in light in Christ. This blessing #1 is added to us being part of the kingdom of his dear Son. Blessing is counted as the first day.
1:6-8 Blessing known as the second day: waters above the firmament is called mercy while waters below is called the grace. In his earthly ministry Jesus defined it thus, "My father worketh hitherto, and I work." ( John 5:17; Lam.3:22-23) We were called in the beginning in his Son and are kept by the grace of God.
1:9-13 The worlds framed by the word of God is the kingdom of God where the world made to appear has the dry land and the seas. The Earth abides forever because the world is called the kingdom of his dear Son.(Ec.1:4; Col.1:13). The command number Three applies to the Son. The day Three is a blessing. "And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas." Holy is his name. We are urged to be holy. "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"(Ep.1:4)
Trees of righteousness in vv.11-12, "and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself" refer to the word of God which is truth and it sanctifies us. "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."( John 17:17)
Philippians 2:6 Christ being in the FORM of God, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL with God.
We are the IMAGE of God, NOT the FATHER GOD, we are heirs of our Father, as Christ is heir.
We INHERIT Son ship, being made ONE FLESH by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he had not only BROKEN the Sabbath, but said that God was his FATHER, making him EQUAL with God.
Is God your Father?
Are you EQUAL with God; or, are you THE FATHER?
Christ is not THE GOD, Christ is a god, a HEIR, and we joint HEIRS.
Psalms 136:2 O give thanks to the GOD of gods ......
John 17:21 That they maybe ONE; as thou, Father, art IN ME, that they may also be ONE, IN US, that the world may believe thou has sent me.
Ephesians 4:6 There is ONE BODY (Christ; and we, as one flesh. in Christ), and ONE SPIRIT (God, our Father)......
Ephesians 4:7 One Lord (and we as lords of our Lord), one faith (of Jesus Christ), one baptism (into the NAME or Jesus Christ)..... 2 Chronicles 7:14 ..... called by my name......
Ephesians 4:8 One God, and Father of ALL, who is above ALL, and through you ALL, and in you ALL.
God Bless You
Many years ago the Holy Spirit stuck John 17:3 deep into me. It speaks of eternal life being knowing God the Father and Jesus the Son. Since that time I have had a burning desire to know as much as I can about Him Scripturally while I live in this life so that I can worship Him in Spirit and in truth. But this verse also speaks of a knowing in the context of intimacy. Knowing God and being Known by God. This is a relational aspect of growing in knowledge of God the Father and Jesus Christ and both the intellectual and relational knowing are wrought in us by the Holy Spirit. I never tire of learning and growing in this respect in my walk with God,
I don't want to have a "small" view of Him that does not esteem His great worth and glory.
I hope your weekend is going well.
How are your parents doing? I have been praying for you and them and the situation facing them in these last years of their life.
I had the ultrasound today but will not know the results until the radiologist examines the scans next week. I was just praying the whole time that the scan would show normalcy in all of the organs the tech scanned: liver, gallbladder, pancreas, spleen, and kidneys. Perhaps it is a good thing after all to have this done, as it gives a baseline moving forward into the rest of my years. Will keep you posted when I hear more.
PT. 3
Another way that God's transcendence is expressed is in His royal and exalted glory and power.
Ps. 57:5, 97:9 speak of God being exalted above all else. He always is in the most high position from creation.
Deut. 4:39; Eccl. 5:2 speaks of God dwelling in heaven above, even the highest heavens. ) Ps 8:1, 57:5) None of us CAN go up to heaven to check Him out in His sovereign majesty. God had to come down to us in the Son for us to know what God s like. John 3 :13.
Ps. 113:5 says that He Himself is the most high ( Ps. 97:9)
So the term 'transcendence" s a convenient term to use to summarize these ways in which God is "above us"; in majesty, holiness, sovereignty, exaltation, glory, perfection, etc.
God is ontologically different and distinct from us that we can only describe Him adequately with our human language (this is called "ineffable). But in His immanence, He has revealed Himself in human terms, both verbally and in Jesus, the Son so that we can be redeemed and have fellowship with Him both now and forever. Jesus said, "This is eternal life, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom He has sent." ( John 17:3)
Though God is transcendent, He has spoken clearly and in language that we can understand with certainty His nature and actions. Romans 1:18-22 says this and that therefore no one can be blameless from ignorance.
Romans 11:33-36 does speak of His mystery, incomprehensibility, ineffability, and "deep things of God" that no man can know.
We can also understand God's transcendence as referring to his Lordship over all that is, to His power and right as the King of everything He has made in all of creation, to His sovereignty and authority over all creatures and in all of His will. This speaks to His omnipotence, omniscience, and omni-presence. ( Ps. 2:47; 93:1; 96:10-13; 97:4; 99:1)
His authority is His control over the moral sphere, over all things that happen in time, all circumstances, and all that w happen.
That is a great question! I'm not sure what the right answer would be, but it seems as though you have answered your own question by stating that "Judas was a manifestation of perdition, just as Jesus was the manifestation of God."
The phrase "son of perdition" is a title. But there is no correlation between son of perdition and Son of God, even though the word HUOIS is used in both places. Since HUIOS is referring to a son who inherits the estate from his father, then what would be Judas' inheritance? Christ has inherited all things from the Father, and we are joint heirs with Christ.
It is interesting that there are only two people in the bible that are given the title "son of perdition," Judas Iscariot and the antichrist that is to come. This is who he (Judas) was and had been his entire life.
Jesus, speaking to the Pharisees in John 8:44 says, "You are of your father the devil." Physically they are from Abraham. Spiritually they are from the devil. Here in John 17:12, Judas is called the son of perdition. Physically, he was the son of Simon. But spiritually, he was the son of the devil.
Remember back in John Chapter 6 Verse 70, "Jesus answered them, have not I chosen you 12 and one of you is a devil," a demon. Jesus didn't choose Judas to be a devil. He says one of you is already a devil. I'm choosing you as already being a devil. This gives us a hint as to what Judas' inheritance will be!
The word HUIOS used by itself would not have triggered the Jewish leaders at that time. It was the entire phrase Jesus used by claiming to be the "Son of God" that the Jews considered blasphemous. To them, He was claiming to be God, which we know He truly is God come in the flesh. By Him claiming to be God, He was making Himself equal to God (which He is).
Blessings to you!
I know it have to be frustrating when you clearly stated you were going to share YOUR thoughts on some scripture from a Greek perspective and you wasn't trying to push it on anyone and yet have to be picked apart from all sides.
Don't be discouraged, you shouldn't be surprised.
In researching the scripture as suggested, I found what I thought was interesting and would like to ask you a question.
In Matthew 16:16 you mentioned the word Son used in the Greek is "HUIOS or Uihos" and that is a title of God to the Jews. What Peter was confessing was you are the Messiah and you are God.
That is also the view held by many. Also as you stated TEKNON means a child by birth. A HUIOS is someone who inherits the estate from his father. "A title of God to the Jews."
Using the word HUIOS instead of TEKNON would cause a that!
"The Huios of God" ties you to the ever lasting essence of God!
This reminds me of Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US.
MY QUESTION.
When speaking of Judas in John 17:12 isn't the word Son/Huios used in the same way, as a title instead of by birth?
John 17:12 "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the SON OF PERDITION; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
The word perdition means "destruction, ruin, waste." Judas was not the literal son of "ruin, destruction, and waste," but those things were the identity of Judas' life. Judas was a manifestation of perdition, just as Jesus was the manifestation of God.
Thanks and God bless.
I would like to add to you comment.
Predestination is predetermining something.
Before the foundation of the world God predetermined that he would destroy sinful man from the face of the earth, and conform them to the IMAGE of his SON.
Matthew 25:34 .... Come, ye blessed of the Father, INHERIT the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
He chose the cross as his instrument.
He was going to do this ONLY ONCE.
In the fullness of time God sent his SON to take all the wrath of God for mankind, not to take the place of mankind, mankind had to also died on that cross.
Three days latter, to fulfill God's words, God resurrected CHRIST, and ALL mankind was resurrected as HEIRS OF CHRIST, his IMAGE, as he is the IMAGE of the Father.
He came to fulfill all the scriptures that were written about HIM, the kingdom of God.
There is more than enough of his speaking to the multitudes to come to the conclusion what his death and resurrection would accomplish: man becoming HIS IMAGE.
John 17:21 That they ALL may be ONE; as thou, Father, art IN ME, and I IN THEE, that they may be ONE IN US; that the world may believe thou has sent me.
Mark 10:8 And they twain, shall be ONE FLESH: so then they are no more twain but ONE FLESH.
Ephesians 2:15 ..... for to make in himself of twain ONE NEW MAN ......
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, IS IT NOT WRITTEN in your law, I SAID,Ye are gods?
Psalms 82:6 I have said: Ye are gods; and ALL OF YOU the children of the most high.
Psalms 82:7 But ye shall DIE LIKE MEN, and fall like one of the princes (Satan).
This was fulfilled on the Cross of Christ.
Isaiah 41:23 Shew the thing that are TO COME HEREAFTER, that we may know ye are gods ......
God Bless You
15For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord,that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,with the voice of the archangel(Michael- Daniel 12:1-3),and with the trump of GOD:and the dead in Christ shall rise first:(resurrection of the believers)
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the CLOUD(same cloud of Acts 1:9-11),to meet the Lord in the AIR(on high,3rd heaven,THE NEXT TO BE ESTABLISHED BY THE ALMIGHTY GOD- Micah 4:1-8 combined with 2Corinthians 12:2-4 and Luke 20:35-36,and John 14:3 and John 17:24,among other biblical references),and so shall we(THE ELECTS)ever be with the Lord.
Matthew 25:6&10
6And at midnight there was a cry made(TURN from the sixth to the seventh Day-Lord's Day),Behold,the bridegroom cometh;GO YOU OUT TO MEET HIM.
10...the bridegroom came;and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage:and the door was shut.
Get ready
2Thessalonians 1:7-12
7And to you who are troubled rest with us,when the Lord Jesus shall be REVEALED from heaven with his mighty angels,
8In flaming FIRE taking VENGEANCE on them that know not GOD ( Matthew 11:27),and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9Who shall be PUNISHED with everlasting DESTRUCTION from the PRESENCE of the Lord,and from the Glory of His Power;
10When he shall come to be glorified in his saints,and to be admired in all them that believe(because our testimony among you was believed)in that day.->Lord's Day,seventh and last Day
Our purpose is to glorify God.
Our mission is to take the Gospel out to the whole world whether on Church on the streets in the grocery store or on this site.
It's "shouldn't" be common that any Christian would refute that.
My post, and reply to Brother Ronald was concerning our mission.
However,
let's talk about Glorifying God for a moment in relations to what I posted.
Here goes.
An article on distractions.
"Remembering Jesus' Prayer for Unity
We all know the narrative in John 17. But let's revisit it.
John 17:11
"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE.
This was the last thing on Jesus' mind before he went to the cross. He could have been praying about anything, but he chose to pray about unity.
There is the heading Gigi to this whole conversation.
When we are as one we Glorify the Lord, not when we are divided.
Look at the previous verse.
John 17:10. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I AM GLORIFIED IN THEM.
We are many members but yet one body, one Spirit, and one Lord.
We glorify the Lord by carrying on his mission in Love not chaos.
God set up these different offices within the body for that cause!
I will post a few scriptures for lack of time and space.
Ephesians 4:1-3.
Ephesians 4:4.
Ephesians 4:7-8.
And last but certainly not least. Ephesians 4:11-13.
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY, FOR THE EDIFYING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST:
Till we all come in the UNITY of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature OF THE FULNESS OF CHRIST:
We have built for a mission that Glorifies Christ!!
See Part 2. Staying right here in Ephesians.
Part 1
Remembering Jesus' Prayer for Unity
We all know the narrative in John 17. But let's revisit it.
John 17:11
"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, AS WE ARE.
This was the last thing on Jesus' mind before he went to the cross. He could have been praying about anything, but he chose to pray about unity.
What does that mean for us? It means we have to be willing to break down barriers that exist among us.
Because if we don't, here's what happens:
The separation becomes more important than the story. The conflict becomes more important than the command. And the division keeps us distracted from accomplishing anything that actually matters.
Before we jump to some specific sources of division, I want to also remind us of the fruit of the Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control ( Gal. 5:22-23). There's one thing that each of these things require: unified community.
The essence of the evidence of the Spirit working in our lives requires us to live in unity.
So let's get specific. Here are 6 of many distractions plaguing the Church today:
1) The Distraction of Preference
We all like things done a certain way. It's part of our nature.
We like the service to be in a particular order. We like the music to be a particular style (and as we all know, some people are very particular about the volume of that music). We like our schedules to look like they're supposed to. We like our community to feel a certain way.
It's okay for us to have preferences. But the moment HOW we do ministry becomes more important than WHY we do ministry, we're in big trouble.
Methods should never guide our ministry or our interactions with others. Mission should.
See part 2.
Today; in the midst of competing a discussion on Psalm 2; somehow I made a fleeting statement on how I believed in Predestination (maybe related to those who perish in Revelation who take the mark of the Beast). In any event; along with a disagreement I had with one lady who is the most vocal at this Bible Study and who is a diehard Catholic she stated that we shouldn't consider ourselves "special" related to what she considered a misguided opinion that indeed I was called and chosen (her issue was that Christ died for everyone).
Of course; even a diehard Calvanist will be the first to tell you that we aren't picked because we have any value-it is simply God's grace. My point is now that we are saved and know it; how do we define this blessing now; and in the future when He exalts us in heaven? Being His adopted children now certainly is "special"; even though as Paul said he was treated as the scum of the world ( 1 Cor. 4:13). Jesus; of course whose visage was marred more than any man for our sake on the way to the cross ( Isaiah 52:14) was uniquely loved by the Father and has a singular exaltation as Creator above all of creation as He should.
As His children we are called to be different from the world and part of His Body (see John 17:15-21). We are to be "salt and light" ( Matthew 5:13-16) and His sheep hear His voice ( John 10:27-28). What draws all men to Himself ( John 12:32) started with His Resurrection; but I would argue continues with the Spirit of God convicting men that lives within His church. To not have the power of sin and the fear of damnation as a reality is something which no one apart from His children can experience.
We should stand out; not as arrogant but as truly blessed; which comes of course from our character as well as our reverence for His Word and instructions of living; prayer and sanctification. John 15:18 shows the world hates us.
The glory of saints in light is same as the glory of the Son. "I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do./And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." ( John 17:4-5). The new name tells it all. 'To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receivethit."(Re.2:17)
Another aspect of their inheritance in Trinity. He was created "in our image and after our likeness." We already covered Body and Spirit and Soul is signified by the Lamb who was worthy to break open the book with seven seals. The body the church is female, the Bride while Christ is the Head. Soul of individual saint represents his kinship to the head. The everlasting covenant explains the Son "Male and female created he them".
Glory of Power and Wisdom is the soul aspect of Trinity so How does the Spirit explain the mercy of God? "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." (Is.59:9-12) The rationale behind parables, similies and allegories, the entire gamut of narrative mode the Spirit uses is to give glory so soul of man is nourished thereby. Ps.1 compares soul of man as the tree planted by the water. The Tree touches heaven and rooted from the earth. Jesus was like a tender plant ,"and as a root out of a dry ground." The covenant specifies that it was good. (Ge.1:11-12). Soul has to be good if man is planted by God. "Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." Jesus said this to the Jews. (Matt.15:13)
"The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations./ Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance."(Ps.33:11-12) This explains the essentials of the everlasting covenant.
What is the counsel of the Lord? It is the divine Will, which is a mystery"(Ep.1:9-13) and St Paul refers "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:/ In whom also we have obtained an inheritance."God first trusted in the Man so his glory was his and as the Apostle says 'In whom ye also trusted," This chapter ought to be studied closely in order to understand the nature of our inheritance ("and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,"-v.18) and it fulfills all the seven days drawn in the covenant.
The counsel of the Father gives us inheritance in the light. 'Let there be light' He commanded and there was light. God "The Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:/Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son," has shown us what is his Son. He is upon where his heart is. So we have the heart compared to the apple of his eye. "For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye." (Ze.2:5) Israel in rejecting the Son is not part of the covenant. Coming to the key text, "the thoughts of his heart to all generations./ Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance," the Spirit is referring to the saints in light. God has chosen them.
Their glory is same as the glory of the Son. John 17:4-5; A new name tells it all. Re.2:17
Yes,among theologians,and believers,followers of them,there is a conception the Planet Earth is around 6,000 years old,what is a false conception.
In the other hand,the scientific conception about the age of the Earth also is empiric,I would say the empiric conception of science on Earth's age is also false and a nonsense.
That said,what matters and prevails is the Truth.Once the two conceptions above described are wrong,both are good for nothing,I will not be brought under the power of any,I will not allow myself to be carried away by either,but where I will find the Truth?This reminds me of Pilate.What is Truth?For me what matters is the Truth, exclusively.
What I know is that JESUS' own testimony about Himself is wonderful,and reveals to us in depth the mystery of His existence in the greatness of the Universe created by GOD,the Word,GOD Father,full of heavenly bodies,and here on Earth,specifically,He populated the planet with living beings,and sat in the CIRCLE of the Earth,as is written in Isaiah 40:21-22:
21Have ye not known?have ye not heard?hath it not been told you from the beginning?have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?
22It is GOD that sits upon the CIRCLE of the Earth,and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers;
I remember what JESUS said from His own existence: John 17:4-5,as follow:
4I have glorified thee-Father-on the earth:I have finished the work which thou gave me to do.( John 1:3 & 5:17,and Hebrews 1:1-2 testify about this that JESUS said.Take a look)
5And now,O Father,glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the WORLD was. John the Baptist,the angel of the LORD,testified about this,saying: John 1:18- No man hath seen GOD at any time,the only begotten Son,which is in the bosom of the Father,He has declared Him.
Evangelizing.
Some seems to prefer to minister to only other believers and have very little to say to unbelievers.
They are quick to judge and tell them where they are going but don't offer them the only way of escape. The Gospel.
In John 17:20 we see Jesus praying for our ministering to them.
"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
I once copied an article on Evangelism. Here's how it reads.
Part 1.
To evangelize means to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with someone else. Personal evangelism should be the lifestyle of every true Christian. We've been given a great gift, and our Master left us with clear instructions: "Go into all the world and make disciples of every nation" Matthew 28:19. Before we can "make disciples," we must evangelize. There are other reasons, besides Jesus' command, that should also motivate us to share the greatest news in the world with people who haven't heard it:
Evangelism is an act of love. Love must be the defining characteristic of every follower of Jesus Christ John 13:35; 1 Corinthians 13:1-7. It is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, so anyone who walks in the Spirit will demonstrate love in dealing with people Galatians 5:16, 22-23. We possess the best news in the world, and love propels us to share it with those who haven't heard. Love wants everyone to have a chance to respond to God's offer of salvation. Withholding news that could save someone's life is the utmost cruelty; therefore, those who truly love God will love the people whom Jesus came to save John 3:16-18; 1 John 4:20.
Evangelism builds our own faith. Nothing helps us learn a subject like teaching it to someone else. When we make a practice of sharing our faith with those in our lives, we strengthen our own beliefs. Regular evangelism forces us to wrestle through the hard questions, find answers for ourselves, and prepare to respond to the questions of others.
See part 2.
I have friends that may be unsaved judging by their testimony, lives, response to certain things such as worldly things and Church things or "Spiritual things"
I have one friend in particular that has no Spiritual insight, void of peace and have no love for what he calls "Religious people" but he enjoys to dabble in the chaotic ways of the world.
When we first met I told him I was a Christian. He doesn't go to Church for reasons I won't get into but I don't think he ever knew what Christian means or how to define one.
However, I believe he found something unique about my way of life and noticed my firm stance for what I believed in.
He began to watch his steps and began to trust and take counsel from me and left off trying to counsel me with his worldly take on life and his ignorance of God.
Today he has gained a respect for the word of God.
Our relationship to the lost world is to introduce Christ.
We do that "Not by acting out a performance" but by truth, and his word.
The word and our deeds should align. (That's God's doing).
TRUTH.
They'll understand by listening and watching us that we are not perfect but we follow that which is. (Jesus )
We have a name we must uphold. We can't follow them in this world. "The darkness that it has to offer"
We are to be a light for them to lead them out of it. We are light bearers that shines light on Christ. We show a lost world that the way to the father is through the Son.
So to your friend you are here to be a leader and not a follower. Philippians 2:15.
You are to be a Evangelist to them in some way.
The Apostles set the foundation and was left here to do this and we are here to build on it.
John 17:14-21 says it best. We don't separate ourselves from them. We separate ourselves from all aspects of their way of life.
More on Evangelism.
I believe you know that the Hebrews had to cross the Red Sea,and walk through a desert,walk until they got to the Promised Land after 40 years of pilgrimage.What about GOD's people now or in this current time?
Now GOD's people will have to go through(I mean win a war)against the Red Dragon,that's exactly it,a Red Dragon yes,this is no coincidence,it was predicted millennia ago.He's a false messiah who will soon manifest,just ahead,with great signs of lying,he will manifest in Israel like a lamb with two horns,he's a Jew,of course, and he'll speak like a Dragon. Revelation 12.3-17 and Revelation 13: 11-18.
Let's get ready to go through this not easy FINAL journey of GOD's people here until the glorious,marvelous,and day of exceedingly joy - the day 1335.Amen.
Remembering and understanding that the departure of the Hebrew people from Egypt was not without first having taken place a battle against Pharaoh(by the way,there and now is Satan himself),and when the march began for the departure of GOD's people from Egypt, then the enemy army persecuted the Hebrews,the same will happen now,initially the persecution will be by the man Beast of the sea,it is he who will first persecute the Christian believers- Revelation 13:5 - for 42 months,that is the first half of the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:v.27.This POINT is only and only the half of the way -3,5 years or 42 months,the GOD's people will need to march more 3,5 years,so the murch will last 7 years,it will not be easy this journey of course.
Again:Let's get ready to go through this not easy FINAL journey of GOD's people here until the glorious,marvelous,and day of exceendigly joy-the day 1335. Amen.
JESUS in His prayer to the Father,said: John 17:15 - I pray not that thou take them out of the world, but that thou keep them from the evil.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5
Get ready, yeah, get ready
Greetings in Christ
The dire/horrible/heinous/hair-raising picture of the current world of Devil,as you so well have described,it is the reflection the wicked and devilish nations of the Devil's world are already descending into hell as a whole,by the power of the Word of GOD,except the sons of GOD- John 1:12-13-of course,in LITERAL fulfilment of Malachi 4:1-3:->1For, behold,the Day cometh(seventh and last GOD's Day or seventh and last millennium),that shall burn as an oven;and all the proud,yea, and all that do wickedly,shall be stubble:and the day that cometh shall burn them up,saith the Lord of hosts,that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings;and ye shall go forth,and grow up as calves of the stall( Isaiah 43:2) .
3And ye shall tread down the wicked;for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the Day(seventh)that I shall do this,saith the Lord of hosts( 1Corinthians 15:24-26).
As you know,JESUS in His prayer to the Father,said: John 17:9-10 and 15-17:
9I pray for them:I pray not for the world,but for them which thou hast given me;for they are thine.
10And all mine are thine,and thine are mine;and I am glorified in them.
15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world,but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16They are not of the world,even as I am not of the world.
17Sanctify them through thy truth:thy Word is Truth.
Malachi 3:16-18
16Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.
17And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that Day when I make up my JEWELS;and I will spare them,as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
18Then shall ye return,and discern between the righteous and the wicked,between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
Paul prophesied:1Tessalonians 4:15
15We say unto you by the Word of the Lord,that we which are alive and remain unto the COMING of the Lord shall not prevent (precede) them which are asleep.
(Comment:Daniel prophesied:Dan.12:1
- At that time(END of Time) shall Michael stand up to fight against the red Dragon,whose satanic religious body has 7 heads,10 horns and a TAIL- Revelation 12:9-12;
- then there shall be a time of trouble (great tribulation), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time( Matthew 24:21);
- and at that time(current time)thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book ( Revelation 7:1-14).
Furthermore,in this current time or now,even now,from now on,the Devil shall be cast down into the bottomless pit(Re.20:1-3).
Daniel 12:2-THERE WILL BE RESURRECTION SIMULTANEOUSLY
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake(according to the prophecy of Isaiah 26:19-21.Take a look), some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Comment: So, there also shall be resurrection in fulfillment of prophecy of Isaiah combined with 1Thessalonians 4:16, as follow:
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout (shall descend from the 3rd heaven,we believers are still in the 2nd heaven-Ephesians1:3-8 combined with Philippians 3:20-21),with the voice of the archangel-MICHAEL- , and with the trump of GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thes. 4:17 - Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds( Isaiah 60:8, and 1Corinthians 15:51 combined with Philippians 3:20-21 and Revelation 5:8-14), to meet the Lord in the air(in the 3rd heavenly environment-3rd heaven-far above of the current second heaven- Luke 20:35-36 combined with Matthew 25:6): and so shall we ever be with the Lord.(Where?- Revelation 11:15-18 and Re. 5:10, and Matthew 5:5, and John 17:24. Take a look).
That's for your meditation
This upper room has been prepared for a special occasion. Who had it prepared for Jesus? In the Gospel of St John Jesus assured his disciples, "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."( John 14:3). "For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God." (He.3:4) As with the colt for his Son to go to Jerusalem God had provided all thing for life and godliness for his Son. God had appointed himas the heir of all things.
When Jesus said of foxes having holes and the birds their nests he was stating his own case as a man. In the world each one is so particular to flaunt their fashionable address God chose the upper room, and the Spirit has not given as one except that whatever God chose was in his Power and glory.
Jesus assured "My Father and I are one" and wherever he walked and abode signaled his Father to testify. "Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."(1:11). Psalmist refers to this relationship of the Father. "If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there." (Ps.139:8)
The Last supper enacted in that upper room evokes for us the same betrayal when Satan betrayed the trust of the Most High. For this reason Jesus refersto Judas as the son of perdition. "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled." ( John 17:12)
We have several instances where what are presented before us is a kangaroo word in terms of the eternal Word. Thus the alabaster box is a kangaroo word for the woman who prepared the body of the Son for his burial. Ezekiel thus ingesting the roll that God gave him becomes a double for the Son. "Son of man, eat that thou findest; eat this roll, and go speak unto the house of Israel."(Ez.3:1)
"What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Here the man in question is Adam. By making him a living soul he is set down in the Lucan genealogy as the son of God. On day six he was blessed and placed all his creation under his hands (Ge.1:28-29). 'Male and female created him sets him in terms of his will stated as a forerunner of Christ and his bride. Only after He sanctified the day seven Eve, was taken out of his ribs. Later He brought all his creation for his review and no helpmeet was found from them. Only then God set about creating flesh of his flesh and bone of his bones. The everlasting covenant between God and Man gives us a final separation, as with Day and Night and waters above and below the firmament and it is a precursor for the ministry of reconciliation for the Word become flesh. It is to this St Paul refers, "For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church." (Ep.5:29. )Christ and his body is therefore implied in day Six. Creation of Eve in the following chapter thus creates a family tree connecting Jesus Christ to Adam in Luke Ch.3.
The breath of God made all the difference to Adam who was formed of the ground. He correctly guessed his calling and did not find anyone worthy from without. He was created in 'his likeness' which is the head. For this reason Jesus referred the deep sleep of Adam was precursor to his own death. He as the word become flesh made himself chaste. Compare his saying, "and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."(Matt.19:12) With Jesus Christ came grace and truth. What God has joined together referred to his own case. In human likeness he nourished and cherished what God had entrusted him with. His prayer makes it clear. ( John 17:11-12)
Introdution: According to 1 Thessalonians 5:9 we are not appointed to wrath. Romans 9:22 seems to indicate that there are indeed "vessels of wrath" doomed for destruction which seems to fulfill what some call "double predestination" or wicked destined for hell. We do know that all those who are NOT written in the Book of Life before the foundation of the world will accept the Mark of the Beast and in fact worship him. ( Rev. 13:8; 17:8 and also in chapter 20). Whether we just play out what is already determined; or God knows ahead of time what we will choose is something we can argue about.
Since this Antichrist is indeed the "man of sin" ( 2 Thess. 2:3) and we can also call the son of perdition in John 17:12 as representing Judas Iscariot who also was destined to betray God and be lost according to the prophecy in Psalm 55 along with the same fate for this Beast from these and other passages; we once again see God's hand in this. God is the one according to Thessalonians that sends "strong delusion" ( 2 Thess. 2:11). That is because people loved sin so much that they didn't want to repent; and we see this with the behaviors that occur during the Trumpet judgments in particular.
These facts are sobering; we know that if it weren't for His grace we would never see clearly our sin nature and hence we all would fall for this false Messiah. This world system has nothing to offer; nor does any man who is unregenerate to give lasting peace. Neither sacrifices of animals or man's own sufferings procure any justification or forgiveness of sins; and God is not impressed with any of our accomplishments. Self gratification no doubt will be a large part of the universal appeal; along with self preservation that eventually leads to the acceptance of this infamous mark. Luke 12:12 may have double fulfillment; both for the Apostles facing martyrdom and the end time saints who refuse the mark.
Part 5 and last Trinity discussion,
Do you believe that Jesus lived a sinless life?
Scripture is clear Jesus had no sin, Hebrews 4:15 1 Peter 2:22 1 John 3:5 Romans 5:12-15.
Do you believe that the Father and the Son are one as Jesus said in Jn. 17 or that He and the Father are "in" one another and if they see Jesus, they see the Father?
Both, Jesus said I and my Father are one John 10:30 and in other places, one means unity. Jesus was one with the Father not because Jesus was God but because He was filled with the Spirit and God dwelt in him, John 14:10, as we see God was in Christ 2 Corinthians 5:19
God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by His Spirit that gave Jesus the power and authority like Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered to Jesus of His Father, Jesus did not have it, all was given to Him. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49 John 14:10. This is why Jesus said if you have seen me, you have seen the Father, John 14:9.
Jesus in His prayer asked the Father that we may be one, as He and His Father are one through the words of the disciples, John 17:20-23. God and Jesus will dwell in us and we in them, 1 John 4:13-16 1 John 3:23-24.
How is it that Jesus AND the Father send the Holy Spirit if there is only one person as God?
Jesus said He would pray to the Father to give another comforter, John 14:16, we see in John 14:26 the Father will send in Jesus's name. In John 15:26 Jesus said I will send but this is from the Father and the Spirit of truth that proceedeth from the Father. This is not a person it is the Spirit of God.
Please don't take this wrong, in the Trinity there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons: The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, each Person is fully God, coequal, coeternal, and consubstantial. I'm sorry my understanding, is Scripture does not support that, Scripture is clear the Father is above all.
Thank you, GiGi, I hope this is what you wanted I am not the best at this.
God bless,
RLW
His authority came from his deity. "I and my Father are one" As his Son the voice from heaven claimed his humanity so "Trinity" was not merely a doctrine but validated the everlasting covenant. " And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased./And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness." (vv.11-12) The Spirit the third office in Trinity led him as the Lucan Gospel says. He was among men but his deity was never in jeopardy. So His power and glory is his as he makes clear in his prayer, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."( John 17:5)
As the Word become flesh his presence among them was a sign. "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."( John 14:10)
He works so all the healing we have in vv.21-45 we shall fill the dots all the way to the throne of God. Thus the healing validated the blessings mentioned in Ge.1:28. "God blessed them" and it was through his Son.
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. Here is another, "And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak."
"And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.