It is so hard for those who have not yet completely died (first death) to Christ to COMPREHEND that they are going to be EXACTLY like Christ.
When wheat seed is planted, the farmer ALWAYS harvest wheat seed. It's ALWAYS an exact copy of the seed planted.
This is TRUE of all seed planted including the WORD OF GOD.
Luke 8:11 The parable is this: the SEED is the Word of GOD.
This SEED; planted in us, will produce SEED EXACTLY like the SEED planted.
We become the living word, just as Christ is the living SEED (WORD).
At the death of this body of flesh, Jesus will send the angels to reap the harvest (SEED).
Ephesians 4:13 Til WE ALL come into the UNITY of the faith, and knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the FULLNESS of Christ.
Christ is the FULLNESS of the FATHER, we WILL BE the FULLNESS of Christ.
John 17:21 That they ALL may be ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE in us: that the world may BELIEVE that thou hast SENT ME.
And Jesus went to the Cross, to give the Holy Spirit to us.
Who he is and what the Holy Spirits ministry is for us. John 17:7-24
This means we can have a very close relationship with the Holy Spirit. He teaches us everything we know about Jesus. He is the Spirit of Christ.
Anything you want to understand about Jesus__is the Holy Spirits task to teach all of us. When the weight of the world crushes us; it's the Holy Spirit who Comforts us; until that moment passes. If we stray from Jesus, it is the Holy Spirit who is calling us to return to Jesus.
HE IS YOURS FOREVER. He will never leave you.
Let us all be conscious of His Presence within us.
Our bodies and our minds are His Temple.
I found that He is very apt to join with us, in spirit, when we sing and praise the Lord.
This is why Jesus told us not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit; Grieve Him or curse Him. The Holy Spirit is the 3rd member of the Godhead. ( Romans 1). He is precious. Pray WITH Him.
Your everyday life will explode and blossom with JOY. The angels hearken to praise and prayer. Wicked spirits will not hang around that kind of happiness. They will flee.
If you need help reading the Bible, a certain scripture; ASK the Holy Spirit to teach it to you.
Sister Laura, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
To understand the Father, the Son Jesus and the the rest of us (sons and daughters) you have to understand SEED and how it MULTIPLIES ITSELF.
Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The SEED is the WORD of God.
The Father is the WORD; therefore, the Father is ALSO the SEED.
When you place a SEED in fertile soil the SEED sprouts (a body). That growing sprout (body) looks nothing like the SEED planted; but when that SEED matures, the sprout (body) dies and the SEED is harvested. This harvested SEED is EXACTLY like the SEED that was planted.
The FIRST SEED was the FATHER, the FIRST SEED that came from the FATHER (SEED) was CHRIST. NOW there are TWO SEED; but the TWO are EXACTLY ALIKE (ONE), there are one in the sense that when that SEED is planted again in fertile soil it will bring forth SEED EXACTLY like the SEED planted.
GOD, the FATHER, the WORD, The SEED was FIRST BEGOTTEN in Christ; therefore, Christ became a SEED. He became the fullness: God, the FATHER,the WORD, the SEED.
When this SEED (Christ in you) is mature and HARVESTED at death of the body, the you become a SEED EXACTLY like THE FATHER and CHRIST.
John 17:21 That they all may be ONE (SEED); as thou Father, are in me, and I in thee, that they ALSO may be one (SEED), even as we are one (SEED).
1 Corinthians 15:38 But God (SEED) giveth it (SEED) a body as it has pleased him, and to every SEED his (SEED) own body.
You are going to be EXACTLY like CHRIST and ready to be planted in fertile ground and bring forth more SEED.
Isaiah 59:21 And as for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My Spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I HAVE PUT in your mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy SEED, nor out of the mouth of thy SEED'S SEED, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.
We can not began to comprehend the glory awaiting us.
I believe you gave us a view of the trinity. Gen. 1:1.In the beginning "El-o-heem'" created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2.And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the "SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Now I'm not sure if you're saying Jesus was created in verse 3 or not but we are sure it's not so according to these verses.
( ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; and without him was not any thing made that was made.)
In him was life; AND THE "LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN."
Colossians 1:16-17. For by him were all things created, that are in HEAVEN, and that are in earth, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, whether they be THROWNS, or DOMINIONS, or PRINCIPALITIES, or POWERS: (all things were created by him, and for him:)
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
"Point here is we see Angels created here as well!!
And in Job 38:4-7. The Angels shouted for joy when Jesus created the Earth.
"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
John 17:5. And now, O Father, glorify thou me WITH THINE OWN SELF with the glory which I had with thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
Now we know he didn't come in the 4th Day!
Gen 1:16. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. THE SUN. "Also created!" You see a contrast of that light and the light of Jesus in
Revelation 21:23. and Revelation 22:5.
Revelation 3:14. Means in the sense Jesus is the origin and source of Gods creation. Colossians 1:15-18. and head of the new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:17.
The final casting out did not occur until after the birth of Christ ( Rev. 12:1-5) and during the days of John the Baptist ( Matt. 11:12). It was then that the adversary began a civil war in heaven, and following his defeat there was a final casting out along with his followers ( Luke 10:18; Rev. 12:7-9); and he is in a state of rage because he knows he will be shortly bound in the bottomless pit ( Rev. 20:1). The restraints upon him during the Old Testament are no longer in place. However, the elect are protected because of the specific prayer request of Christ in John 17:18.
May CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
John wrote these words 1900 hundred years ago. It could be another 2000 years or more until the second resurrection, NO ONE KNOWS. These words have to have the same meaning to all who read them; whatever time (1900 years ago or 2000 years from now) they themselves are in.
Babylon REPRESENTS something, it is not literal.
Judah was taken into captivity by Babylon because they LOVED the world more than they loved God.
It is no different TODAY we LOVE the world more than we love God.
We (creation) are a HARLOT OF BABYLON because we have left our FIRST LOVE (our husband, Christ) and dote on the things of the world.
We to are a captive of Babylon.
Jesus came to set the CAPTIVES free (liberty in Christ).
Revelation 18:4 And I heard a voice in heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER, my people....
Come back to your HUSBAND. Become ONE.
You must DIE (first death) to the world, you must give YOUR LIFE for CHRIST as he gave HIS LIFE FOR YOU.
Colossians 1:27 ... mystery of the ages.... CHRIST (who ONLY hath immortality) IN YOU, the hope of glory.
Philippians 2:5 Let THIS MINE be in you, which was also IN CHRIST JESUS:
Philippians 2:6 Who being in the form (image) of GOD, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD.
Christ and the Father are ONE.
John 17:21 That they ALL BE ONE, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE IN US: that the world MAY BELIEVE that thou has sent me.
Jesus told Judah (his chosen) that they would DIE in Babylon.
"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
"They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." - John 17:15-17
"When the temporary becomes a higher priority for us than the eternal we have lost our way and in so doing we lose the many blessings that God wants to shower upon us." --Lynn Cooper
1 John 2:15-17. Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
John 15:18-19. If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
John 17:14-16. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
2 Corinthians 4:3-4. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2 Peter 3:10.
Sister Denise thank God for Jesus who will redeem us who believe in him and his work on the cross from the destruction that come upon all the Earth.
Greetings in the Name of Christ! You are perfectly correct. Every human being is born spiritually dead, in that he is disconnected from God because of an inherent sin nature ( 1 Cor. 15:22). God is the only source of life. Therefore, one is considered to be unplugged from God and spiritually dead until he is born again and plugged in ( John 17:3). He is then quickened and made alive. Jesus used a personal pronoun "their" when describing the dead because, until one is born again, he is merely a product a procreation, and belongs to the current world system. God bless and take care.
This John 17 : 5 is telling us that Christ is gonna be Glorfied and he says his Glorfication is the very Glorification of God the Father . Glorify thou me with thine own self, Even with the Glory I had with you before the world was, Remember he died for the whole world. and the script. says the H.G. is the Glorfication of Christ simply b/c the H.G. was not yet given b/c that Christ was not yet Glorfied thus the multiplication of Christ is the multiplication of very God, Thats y he says to whom the word came ( his seed the living word ) it made them Gods . And that is y the scripture is saying the very Father swore by his very self when he made that PROMISE OF MULTIPLICATION OF Christ, when the sower of that Good Seed ( when the book is opened that is when the sower will go forth to sow his seed thus the H.G. will be given , thats y the woman is given Birth which is the H.G. A SPRITUAL CHILD, That which is born of the spirit is spirit as God is spirit thus he will Glorfy/Multiply the Father ,as the H.G. is the Glorfication of God the FATHER. His prayer was Glorify thou me with thine own self etc and the womans child is another Father a baby God ,to whom the Word came it made them Gods . Thats ye he was praying GLORIFY me that I might Glorify you . See his multiplication VIA HIS SEED is the multiplication of VERY GOD IN US. Unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a little Child this implies a heavenly birth of Christ in US. The Father said i have Gloried it and i will Glory it again, there has been an intermission of 2 k yrs. 2 DAYS. It was glorIfied a bit at Pentecost but they ran outta of that 1 st wine the H.G. wine and we will receive that 2 nd wine on the 3 rd day the day of the marriage .At the wedding they received the best Wine the 3 rd day., Ya remember the wedding CHIEF said You have kept the best Wine for last. As Paul said when that which is perfect is come that which is done in part will be done away with.
The"Day" in Genesis 1:5(1:4+1:5)[14th Day and 15thDay of Passover] is capitalized.The word "Day",is a noun.When a noun is capitalized,it becomes a personalized noun.This"Day" is an Personalized Day.This is God's Personalized Day.It is "that Day".It is The Day of The Lord. Genesis 1:3 is not talking about day (as in sunlight),but,rather,the commission of the Gospel,to be sent("there"[Let there(the waters Rev.17:15)be light.The evening and the morning of the Day of the Lord is bumped up into every day of our lives(2cor.6:2[selfsame day]),that we may "know therefore this day(Day),and consider it in our heart".It's really ALL about JESUS!!!!!!+!See these verses(from KJV study bible). [ Gen 1:2;IS 40:13; Rom 11:34; Jer 23:18; Jer 23:22; Jer 25:5;IS 55:6; 2Cor 6:2]Also,[ Gen 1:1; John 1:1; 1John 5:20; John 17:3; 1Cor 11:4; Deut 4:35; Deut 4:39]Would you like to know more?
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let US (plural) make man in OUR (not my) image, after OUR likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in US: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (22) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as WE are one:
Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Luke 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
(31) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a SON, and shalt call his name JESUS.
(32) He shall be great, and shall be called the SON of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father (not Joseph) honour. (27) Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
Mark 10:40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is NOT MINE to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
Brother Mitchell, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
When you came to the understanding that WE CAN DO NOTHING; but, Christ does all things for us. You will BE SET FREE.
You want have to achieve the hope set before you, Christ started it. he will complete it. In fact; Christ sees it as already COMPLETE. This is what is meant by coming INTO HIS REST; the works were completed before the foundations of the world were laid.
Ephesians 1:4
Hebrews 4:3
John 15:5
Psalms 92:4-6
YOU ARE DEAD (on your cross); He is alive on HIS THRONE (in you) living HIS life FOR YOU.
Jesus Himself said in John 6:37, "All that the Father gives to me will come to me; and the one coming to me I will NEVER CAST OUT." Jesus goes on to say in John 6:39, "And this is the will of the Father who has sent me, in order that of all which he has given to me I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, but should raise it up in the last day." If you read John 17:11-12, you see that we are kept by God's power.
I firmly believe in the permanency of salvation because the Bible teaches that God is the One who saves and He does so from out of His mercy. Paul tells us in Ephesians 2:8 that grace, faith, and salvation are gifted from God.
In 1 John Chapter 5 Verse 18, John says "We know that everyone who has been born from God does not practice sin; but the one who has been born from God, God IS KEEPING him, and the evil one does not touch him." John also says in John 10:27-29, "My sheep hear my voice and I know them; and they follow me. And I give to them eternal life; and they will NEVER PERISH FOREVER and not anyone will seize them from out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to seize them from out of the hand of my Father."
Paul emphasized the keeping power of God's Spirit. He says in Ephesians 1:13-14, "In whom also after having heard the Word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, after having believed, you were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the GUARANTEE of our inheritance, for redemption of the possession, for the praise of His glory."
Paul says again in Ephesians 4:30, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God in whom you were SEALED FOR THE DAY OF REDEMPTION."
Hi Jesse. I do agree, as we see in Mark 1:41-45, that the people thronged Him & probably for the wrong reasons & this forced Jesus to withdraw from them & pursue the Father's Will in His Way & His Timing.
I also see the oft used phrase, "My hour is not yet come" (as seen in John 2:1-5: Wedding at Cana; John 7:1-9: when urged to present Himself; John 7:25-30 & John 8:20: when about to be arrested). It seems that all Jesus' miracles, His talks, even the places He went to, were directed by His Father according to the Plan laid out for Him. The Plan being, that certain things had to happen (not sooner or later) for the duration of those 33 years He lived on Earth. Even though He was encouraged by His Mother, brethren & disciples to do more miracles or take advantage of the crowds that gathered, Jesus knew that the time appointed to Him would be violated by doing so & that all that was necessary for Him to do during those years were foreordained for a reason. And so He could finally exclaim: "that His hour had come" ( Mark 14:41, John 17:1) when He knew that His Work on Earth was nearing completion, culminating at the Cross.
I wonder whether by making Himself more prominent or proving Himself as the Messiah in a greater more dynamic way, would have thwarted the Plan of God for His Life (from the cradle to the cross) and therefore would fail to bring on the full & proper results as the Father had ordained. Just a few thoughts to add to yours, Jesse.
Obviously you took my post incorrectly. I'll try using Scriptures again.
I never said Christ and the Father was not a relationship. You brought this up. I never said Christ is the Father or the Father is Christ as it seems you took it. I know it's a Father Son relationship. Again John 10:30, John 14:11, John 17:21. Revelation 3:21. For a couple.
Some say the Father being in Christ means He left Heaven. God spoke from Heaven several times proving that false. Matthew 3:17, Matthew 17:5, John 12:28.
Here are a couple stating the Spirit of Truth or Holy Ghost as He/Him: John 14:17, John 14:26. Putting the three in ONE as in 1 John 5:7.
As I've been trying to answer your questions though you seemed to have veered from mine. No one knows the depths and ways of God. He can do anything He wants. Isaiah 40:28, Isaiah 55:8-9. Just like giving all His power and authority to His Son so we honor Him just as we honor the Father. Matthew 28:18, John 5:22-23. Not knowing your beliefs on this but no one can say Christ did not exist before He was born here. Christ Himself stated this and there are other Scriptures that back this up also. John 17:4-5. All I do is use the Scriptures. I have no private interpretation as that is not what the Scriptures are for. 2 Peter 1:20.
Nothing is falling apart for me. I've given you many Scriptural verses as I have not seen one from you. Also I really don't even know your motive for making the first post the other night. The reason I made the reply is because you said something about a "man made trinity doctrine". Which I showed you is not man made it's Biblical.
Still not getting into how many titles the Father and Son share. Not knowing if it would make any difference to you.
I'm not here to argue and don't take my post that way please. You may have your own view.
Again as I hope I've answered your questions. I'll just leave the one again.
Hi James. You said, "The Word is not a person. The Word is the word. A 5 year old can understand this. God put his words in the mouth of a man. This is how the Word (the Word of God) was made flesh."
As you know, the Word of God was put into many men over the ages. Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, the prophets, & many others. Was this Word from God also made flesh in them as well? If so, of what importance, relevance or accuracy would this interpretation be? We are never told that the Word became flesh to any of these men: they were just men chosen by God to bring forth His Word to His people. As far as I can discern, the messages that came to them to be given to the people, were simply God's Word for Israel's obedience, knowledge & instruction - there was no reconstruction of that Word into a fleshly form - it was just an echo of God's direct Word to them.
But when Jesus came on the scene, He didn't just echo God's Word to Israel, but He was the Word of God - He wasn't just a Proclaimer but the Word was His Character. If this were not so, He would have been just as all the other prophets in the past (no different, no better). But Hebrews 1:1-3 tells us that this Prophet was different in His Birth ('express Image of God'), in His Glory ('the brightness of God's Glory'), in His creative Work ('made the worlds & upholds all things by His Power'), in His Sacrifice ('purging our sins'), in His return to His Glory, John 17:5 ('at the right Hand of God').
If you see this Jesus & believe that He was just another Prophet or a godly Man chosen of God, how does God's Word brought out through flesh have any relevance on God's Word made flesh? The former was given by man inspired by God. The latter was done by God sent out from within Himself, so that His Word would become flesh (man) for our sakes, which no other prophet could ever do. This separated Jesus from all others. John 1:14: "..the only begotten (unique, one of a kind) of the Father...".
Just feeling to reply to this. Not really wanting to.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST:
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and these THREE are ONE.
Revelation 19:11-14 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.
And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The WORD of GOD.
One definition from "Logos" or "Word" in Greek. In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds. A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose in John 1.
John 17:3-5 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
If you can't believe in Scripture that Jesus Christ Himself says He existed before the world was. Just one place. I can't help you.
Jesus Christ did exist before He was born. Other Scriptures state this also.
There are numerous ways that God uses to "equip and prepare us" according to what the Lord Jesus prayed for.
At the base of all spiritual living & work, lies Christ's fully accomplished work on the Cross. And after successfully providing redemption & defeating the power of Satan to all who would believe, Jesus sent to us His Spirit to confirm, seal & establish our hearts in this new life.
So with the basis of the Cross & the Gift of the Holy Spirit, God's children are being prepared for higher service & a part of that preparation is the "equipping of the saints". Those believers who remain obstinate to the Spirit's urging, never grow spiritually, never receive the abundance of Heaven, & never impact others with Christ's Love.
The Spirit gives us much so that the Purposes of God are accomplished in the believer, in the Church & in the World. He has blessed us with those with particular Gifts for the building up of Christ's Church & to use to bless others. The power of the Gospel to the unsaved is found both in the power of God's Word & by the testimony of those so changed by it. The depth & richness from the Word comes from the Holy Spirit & in those whom He fills with such knowledge so that our knowledge might also increase. And not to mention the burden of praying saints, those giving of their substance, their time, their energies, & those who would get beside those under weight of some sin or temptation, all speak of the life-giving power of God to bring about His Purposes & blessings to others.
As Jesus prayed, "I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:23: to the end that the Church may be found 'unified with the Godhead in perfection'. And this was the desire of the apostles: Jude 24; Ephesians 5:27; Colossians 1:27,28; Romans 12:1: that in the Day of Presentation, the God's people might stand pure, holy, & unashamed.
"Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee." John 17:7.
As you have read, this Scripture portion is Christ's prayer to God His Father (often called Jesus' High Priestly Prayer). This prayer shows His Glory (vv 1-5), His love for His disciples (vv 6-19), & love for all who would belong to Him (vv 20-26).
So we see this Jesus, Who enjoyed the Glory of God even before creation, now declares to His Father that He has faithfully brought God's Truths of Himself & the Kingdom of Heaven to His disciples. These disciples have "kept Thy Word' & do understand that all that He has declared to them have come from God. Jesus only spoke the words to His disciples that were given to Him by God and they received them & know for sure that Jesus came out of God (out of God's Being or Essence) & believe that God had sent Him to them & the world (v 8).
Therefore, to answer your question: the Word of God (i.e. Divinely inspired messages), the Power of God (i.e. seen in Jesus' miracles, power over the devil, etc.), & the Wisdom of God (i.e. to know how to live that God-ordered, God-centred life which far surpassed the erroneous teaching of the Jewish religious leaders), would be what Jesus received of the Father to share with His disciples. And these disciples were then to take all that they learned from their Master, to the world (v 18-23).
Jeanette, may the Spirit grace you with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, SOLD under sin.
We were naturally born flesh and blood; but a body of flesh and blood cannot obtain the spiritual world (the likeness of Christ). Christ came in the likeness of us (sinful flesh) to REDEEM (exchange our body of flesh for his body of GLORY or a glorified body).
Romans 8:6 To be carnally minded (unbelief) is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded (believing) is life (you never die you just change bodies; you are glorified with Christ, you are REDEEMED.
John 17:21-22
All this was made possible by HIS WORK ON THE CROSS AND HIS RESURRECTION. He was made like you so that you and him could die together and you and him could be resurrected together; now in THE LIKENESS OF CHRIST to live a life without sin (love God above all and your brothers and enemies as yourself)
God did not make death, proof by Jesus stated "before the world was", Saint John 17:3-5, proof by His resurrection-ascension into heaven, Saint Luke 24:51-53, eye witnessed, 1 Corinthians 15:6, is clear proof of the Holy source of life & everyone's salvation forevermore.
My comments addressed all the godless humanist "ISM's - among which, ZIONISM, 1896, and NOT the book of Genesis, which is also God's living Word prophesying the coming of Christ Jesus Messiah Lord God Savior Redeemer in GENESIS 3:15, KJV, where Christ is referred to as THE SEED OF WOMAN, and not as "descendant" or "offspring" that begs focus and concentration on carnal biological genealogical flesh lineage that contradicts God's Word in the Book of John that we are BORN OF GOD and that THE FLESH IS OF NO AVAIL ( JOHN 1: 1-18; JOHN 3:16; JOHN 6:63; JOHN 17:3; HEBREWS 8:13; HEBREWS 13:8; REVELATION 1:7; REVELATION 20, 21, 22, KJV 1611, HOLY BIBLE). ***
John 17:5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
When he was returned to his Glory he addresses his self the way he did in the old testament.
Isaiah 9:6(KJV) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, (((THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, THE PRINCE OF PEACE ))).
Can someone tell me why is the SON called the everlasting FATHER inIsaiah 9:6??
Look at the opening of Revelation 1:1.
( The Revelation of Jesus Christ.)
""The unveiling "" The climatic declaration of who he is.
Look how he declares himself to John.
Revelation 1:8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, ((THE ALMIGHTY!!))
Here is how Almighty is defined in Revelation:
Greek:
Transliteration: pantokratr
Pronunciation: pan-tok-rat'-ore
Definition: From G3956 and G2904; the all ruling that is God (as absolute and universal sovereign): - Almighty Omnipotent.
OnlytruthintheworldKJV - In Reply on Luke 1 - 3 years ago
Amen.
Praise the Lord!
Revelation 13:8
King James Version
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Does this mean there was a lamb up in heaven with it's throat slit before God said, "let there be light." ?
Of course not.
John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
As you said, of a truth, all Christians (born again of the word 1Peter 1:23/ John 3:3 and baptized in Jesus' name and filled with His Spirit John 3:5/ Acts 2:38)
had glory with the Father before the world was. Does this mean we were physically or spiritually there with the Father in heaven? Of course not.
The term "pre-existent" is an oxymoron.
Noone has ever pre-existed oneself.
If only people would (as your name suggests) read their bible, and stop listening to deceived men (theologians/ lying "pastors") they would be free indeed - John 8:31-32.
Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
As no one person is exactly the same as another. Just as well there is many different beliefs to interpreting the Scriptures. Which is said to have no private interpretation. ( 2 Peter 1:20-21.
As this has been discussed before I will put my portion. I do not say Jesus Christ is God the Father. He is the only begotten Son of God. Though He was more than just a "sinless" man. He was part man part God. Born of a virgin who was conceived by the Holy Ghost ( Matthew 1:20, Luke 1:30-35. Even at age twelve He astonished people who heard Him. He knew God was His Father then Luke 2:47-49. To me showing He did not just receive the Holy Ghost(Spirit of God) at His water baptism in the Jordan. If the sign of the Spirit descending from Heaven like a dove was for just a sign for John or for His supernatural powers only God knows. John 1:32-34.
If some think that believing Jesus Christ is more that just a man is taking something away from the Father. God wants us to honor His Son as He is the only way to the Father. Scriptures pointing to Him being more than "just" a man John 3:12-13, John 3:33-35, John 3:38, John 8:54-58, John 17:3-5, Colossians 1:12-20, Hebrews 1:1-4.
Also titles Jesus Christ, the Son of God, uses like Alpha and Omega(first and last) in the beginning of Revelation. The Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, being King of kings and Lord of Lords Revelation 17:14. Also the Word of God and King of kings and Lord of lords given to the man riding the white horse out of Heaven. I believe is Jesus Christ.
Besides all of the miracles He performed. Him being transfigured on the mountain Matthew 17:2.
There is one True Holy Living Almighty God. Saying the Father, Word, and Holy Ghost are one. Also as how many verses I have that state the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God, and the Holy Ghost are in us after being saved. To me showing Jesus Christ is the Word of God and one with God and the Holy Ghost.
Praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ and our Father in Heaven.
To OTITW KJV. Just to clarify a couple of your references.
a. Isaiah 28:11,12: "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing..." If you read this portion of Scripture, it has nothing to do with the experience of speaking in other tongues. It has to do with the Assyrian captivity, when Ephraim (one of Joseph's sons) is particularly mentioned who would go into captivity along with Israel, because of their many sins & wicked prophets & priests. Instead of hearing the Word of God through His prophets, they would receive the Word from those "with stammering lips & another tongue", i.e. another nation & another language, implying that the Word given would also be spoken in scorn & derision to God's people. This verse has nothing to do with the spiritual gift of Tongues.
b. the 'doctrine of the Trinity'. You would have a hard time to deny the Trinity, as it was not only believed by the apostles & the early Church ( John 17:5, Matthew 28:19, John 20:28, etc), but was also believed by the early Church fathers (i.e. those who were eminent men in the post-apostolic Church, after the apostle John). Names such as Ignatius ("For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God's plan..."; "There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord."). And Polycarp ("Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal High Priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth...and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead."). And not to mention Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Origen, who all believed it. This is not an RC introduced belief.
It is so hard for those who have not yet completely died (first death) to Christ to COMPREHEND that they are going to be EXACTLY like Christ.
When wheat seed is planted, the farmer ALWAYS harvest wheat seed. It's ALWAYS an exact copy of the seed planted.
This is TRUE of all seed planted including the WORD OF GOD.
Luke 8:11 The parable is this: the SEED is the Word of GOD.
This SEED; planted in us, will produce SEED EXACTLY like the SEED planted.
We become the living word, just as Christ is the living SEED (WORD).
At the death of this body of flesh, Jesus will send the angels to reap the harvest (SEED).
Ephesians 4:13 Til WE ALL come into the UNITY of the faith, and knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the FULLNESS of Christ.
Christ is the FULLNESS of the FATHER, we WILL BE the FULLNESS of Christ.
John 17:21 That they ALL may be ONE; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE in us: that the world may BELIEVE that thou hast SENT ME.
You are going to be GODS!
Who he is and what the Holy Spirits ministry is for us. John 17:7-24
This means we can have a very close relationship with the Holy Spirit. He teaches us everything we know about Jesus. He is the Spirit of Christ.
Anything you want to understand about Jesus__is the Holy Spirits task to teach all of us. When the weight of the world crushes us; it's the Holy Spirit who Comforts us; until that moment passes. If we stray from Jesus, it is the Holy Spirit who is calling us to return to Jesus.
HE IS YOURS FOREVER. He will never leave you.
Let us all be conscious of His Presence within us.
Our bodies and our minds are His Temple.
I found that He is very apt to join with us, in spirit, when we sing and praise the Lord.
This is why Jesus told us not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit; Grieve Him or curse Him. The Holy Spirit is the 3rd member of the Godhead. ( Romans 1). He is precious. Pray WITH Him.
Your everyday life will explode and blossom with JOY. The angels hearken to praise and prayer. Wicked spirits will not hang around that kind of happiness. They will flee.
If you need help reading the Bible, a certain scripture; ASK the Holy Spirit to teach it to you.
Mishael
To understand the Father, the Son Jesus and the the rest of us (sons and daughters) you have to understand SEED and how it MULTIPLIES ITSELF.
Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The SEED is the WORD of God.
The Father is the WORD; therefore, the Father is ALSO the SEED.
When you place a SEED in fertile soil the SEED sprouts (a body). That growing sprout (body) looks nothing like the SEED planted; but when that SEED matures, the sprout (body) dies and the SEED is harvested. This harvested SEED is EXACTLY like the SEED that was planted.
The FIRST SEED was the FATHER, the FIRST SEED that came from the FATHER (SEED) was CHRIST. NOW there are TWO SEED; but the TWO are EXACTLY ALIKE (ONE), there are one in the sense that when that SEED is planted again in fertile soil it will bring forth SEED EXACTLY like the SEED planted.
GOD, the FATHER, the WORD, The SEED was FIRST BEGOTTEN in Christ; therefore, Christ became a SEED. He became the fullness: God, the FATHER,the WORD, the SEED.
When this SEED (Christ in you) is mature and HARVESTED at death of the body, the you become a SEED EXACTLY like THE FATHER and CHRIST.
John 17:21 That they all may be ONE (SEED); as thou Father, are in me, and I in thee, that they ALSO may be one (SEED), even as we are one (SEED).
1 Corinthians 15:38 But God (SEED) giveth it (SEED) a body as it has pleased him, and to every SEED his (SEED) own body.
You are going to be EXACTLY like CHRIST and ready to be planted in fertile ground and bring forth more SEED.
Isaiah 59:21 And as for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My Spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I HAVE PUT in your mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy SEED, nor out of the mouth of thy SEED'S SEED, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.
We can not began to comprehend the glory awaiting us.
I believe you gave us a view of the trinity. Gen. 1:1.In the beginning "El-o-heem'" created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2.And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the "SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Now I'm not sure if you're saying Jesus was created in verse 3 or not but we are sure it's not so according to these verses.
( ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; and without him was not any thing made that was made.)
In him was life; AND THE "LIFE WAS THE LIGHT OF MEN."
Colossians 1:16-17. For by him were all things created, that are in HEAVEN, and that are in earth, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, whether they be THROWNS, or DOMINIONS, or PRINCIPALITIES, or POWERS: (all things were created by him, and for him:)
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
"Point here is we see Angels created here as well!!
And in Job 38:4-7. The Angels shouted for joy when Jesus created the Earth.
"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
John 17:5. And now, O Father, glorify thou me WITH THINE OWN SELF with the glory which I had with thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
Now we know he didn't come in the 4th Day!
Gen 1:16. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. THE SUN. "Also created!" You see a contrast of that light and the light of Jesus in
Revelation 21:23. and Revelation 22:5.
Revelation 3:14. Means in the sense Jesus is the origin and source of Gods creation. Colossians 1:15-18. and head of the new creation. 2 Corinthians 5:17.
God bles
May GOD bless!
May CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.
John wrote these words 1900 hundred years ago. It could be another 2000 years or more until the second resurrection, NO ONE KNOWS. These words have to have the same meaning to all who read them; whatever time (1900 years ago or 2000 years from now) they themselves are in.
Babylon REPRESENTS something, it is not literal.
Judah was taken into captivity by Babylon because they LOVED the world more than they loved God.
It is no different TODAY we LOVE the world more than we love God.
We (creation) are a HARLOT OF BABYLON because we have left our FIRST LOVE (our husband, Christ) and dote on the things of the world.
We to are a captive of Babylon.
Jesus came to set the CAPTIVES free (liberty in Christ).
Revelation 18:4 And I heard a voice in heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER, my people....
Come back to your HUSBAND. Become ONE.
You must DIE (first death) to the world, you must give YOUR LIFE for CHRIST as he gave HIS LIFE FOR YOU.
Colossians 1:27 ... mystery of the ages.... CHRIST (who ONLY hath immortality) IN YOU, the hope of glory.
Philippians 2:5 Let THIS MINE be in you, which was also IN CHRIST JESUS:
Philippians 2:6 Who being in the form (image) of GOD, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD.
Christ and the Father are ONE.
John 17:21 That they ALL BE ONE, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be ONE IN US: that the world MAY BELIEVE that thou has sent me.
Jesus told Judah (his chosen) that they would DIE in Babylon.
Paul said, I DIE DAILY.
ARE YOU ON YOUR DEATH BED?
"They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." - John 17:15-17
"When the temporary becomes a higher priority for us than the eternal we have lost our way and in so doing we lose the many blessings that God wants to shower upon us." --Lynn Cooper
1 John 2:15-17. Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
John 15:18-19. If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
John 17:14-16. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
2 Corinthians 4:3-4. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2 Peter 3:10.
Sister Denise thank God for Jesus who will redeem us who believe in him and his work on the cross from the destruction that come upon all the Earth.
God bless.
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in US: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (22) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as WE are one:
Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Luke 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
(31) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a SON, and shalt call his name JESUS.
(32) He shall be great, and shall be called the SON of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father (not Joseph) honour. (27) Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
Mark 10:40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is NOT MINE to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
When you came to the understanding that WE CAN DO NOTHING; but, Christ does all things for us. You will BE SET FREE.
You want have to achieve the hope set before you, Christ started it. he will complete it. In fact; Christ sees it as already COMPLETE. This is what is meant by coming INTO HIS REST; the works were completed before the foundations of the world were laid.
Ephesians 1:4
Hebrews 4:3
John 15:5
Psalms 92:4-6
YOU ARE DEAD (on your cross); He is alive on HIS THRONE (in you) living HIS life FOR YOU.
YOU have become ONE WITH CHRIST.
John 17:21
Luke 14:27
Matthew 10:38
Luke 9:23
We are THE POT he is THE POTTER.
Jesus Himself said in John 6:37, "All that the Father gives to me will come to me; and the one coming to me I will NEVER CAST OUT." Jesus goes on to say in John 6:39, "And this is the will of the Father who has sent me, in order that of all which he has given to me I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING, but should raise it up in the last day." If you read John 17:11-12, you see that we are kept by God's power.
I firmly believe in the permanency of salvation because the Bible teaches that God is the One who saves and He does so from out of His mercy. Paul tells us in Ephesians 2:8 that grace, faith, and salvation are gifted from God.
In 1 John Chapter 5 Verse 18, John says "We know that everyone who has been born from God does not practice sin; but the one who has been born from God, God IS KEEPING him, and the evil one does not touch him." John also says in John 10:27-29, "My sheep hear my voice and I know them; and they follow me. And I give to them eternal life; and they will NEVER PERISH FOREVER and not anyone will seize them from out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one is able to seize them from out of the hand of my Father."
Paul emphasized the keeping power of God's Spirit. He says in Ephesians 1:13-14, "In whom also after having heard the Word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also, after having believed, you were SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the GUARANTEE of our inheritance, for redemption of the possession, for the praise of His glory."
Paul says again in Ephesians 4:30, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God in whom you were SEALED FOR THE DAY OF REDEMPTION."
(One more post to come)
I also see the oft used phrase, "My hour is not yet come" (as seen in John 2:1-5: Wedding at Cana; John 7:1-9: when urged to present Himself; John 7:25-30 & John 8:20: when about to be arrested). It seems that all Jesus' miracles, His talks, even the places He went to, were directed by His Father according to the Plan laid out for Him. The Plan being, that certain things had to happen (not sooner or later) for the duration of those 33 years He lived on Earth. Even though He was encouraged by His Mother, brethren & disciples to do more miracles or take advantage of the crowds that gathered, Jesus knew that the time appointed to Him would be violated by doing so & that all that was necessary for Him to do during those years were foreordained for a reason. And so He could finally exclaim: "that His hour had come" ( Mark 14:41, John 17:1) when He knew that His Work on Earth was nearing completion, culminating at the Cross.
I wonder whether by making Himself more prominent or proving Himself as the Messiah in a greater more dynamic way, would have thwarted the Plan of God for His Life (from the cradle to the cross) and therefore would fail to bring on the full & proper results as the Father had ordained. Just a few thoughts to add to yours, Jesse.
Obviously you took my post incorrectly. I'll try using Scriptures again.
I never said Christ and the Father was not a relationship. You brought this up. I never said Christ is the Father or the Father is Christ as it seems you took it. I know it's a Father Son relationship. Again John 10:30, John 14:11, John 17:21. Revelation 3:21. For a couple.
Some say the Father being in Christ means He left Heaven. God spoke from Heaven several times proving that false. Matthew 3:17, Matthew 17:5, John 12:28.
Here are a couple stating the Spirit of Truth or Holy Ghost as He/Him: John 14:17, John 14:26. Putting the three in ONE as in 1 John 5:7.
As I've been trying to answer your questions though you seemed to have veered from mine. No one knows the depths and ways of God. He can do anything He wants. Isaiah 40:28, Isaiah 55:8-9. Just like giving all His power and authority to His Son so we honor Him just as we honor the Father. Matthew 28:18, John 5:22-23. Not knowing your beliefs on this but no one can say Christ did not exist before He was born here. Christ Himself stated this and there are other Scriptures that back this up also. John 17:4-5. All I do is use the Scriptures. I have no private interpretation as that is not what the Scriptures are for. 2 Peter 1:20.
Nothing is falling apart for me. I've given you many Scriptural verses as I have not seen one from you. Also I really don't even know your motive for making the first post the other night. The reason I made the reply is because you said something about a "man made trinity doctrine". Which I showed you is not man made it's Biblical.
Still not getting into how many titles the Father and Son share. Not knowing if it would make any difference to you.
I'm not here to argue and don't take my post that way please. You may have your own view.
Again as I hope I've answered your questions. I'll just leave the one again.
Do you believe the Scriptures I've posted?
Thank you. God Bless.
As you know, the Word of God was put into many men over the ages. Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, the prophets, & many others. Was this Word from God also made flesh in them as well? If so, of what importance, relevance or accuracy would this interpretation be? We are never told that the Word became flesh to any of these men: they were just men chosen by God to bring forth His Word to His people. As far as I can discern, the messages that came to them to be given to the people, were simply God's Word for Israel's obedience, knowledge & instruction - there was no reconstruction of that Word into a fleshly form - it was just an echo of God's direct Word to them.
But when Jesus came on the scene, He didn't just echo God's Word to Israel, but He was the Word of God - He wasn't just a Proclaimer but the Word was His Character. If this were not so, He would have been just as all the other prophets in the past (no different, no better). But Hebrews 1:1-3 tells us that this Prophet was different in His Birth ('express Image of God'), in His Glory ('the brightness of God's Glory'), in His creative Work ('made the worlds & upholds all things by His Power'), in His Sacrifice ('purging our sins'), in His return to His Glory, John 17:5 ('at the right Hand of God').
If you see this Jesus & believe that He was just another Prophet or a godly Man chosen of God, how does God's Word brought out through flesh have any relevance on God's Word made flesh? The former was given by man inspired by God. The latter was done by God sent out from within Himself, so that His Word would become flesh (man) for our sakes, which no other prophet could ever do. This separated Jesus from all others. John 1:14: "..the only begotten (unique, one of a kind) of the Father...".
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST:
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and these THREE are ONE.
Revelation 19:11-14 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.
And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The WORD of GOD.
One definition from "Logos" or "Word" in Greek. In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds. A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose in John 1.
John 17:3-5 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
If you can't believe in Scripture that Jesus Christ Himself says He existed before the world was. Just one place. I can't help you.
Jesus Christ did exist before He was born. Other Scriptures state this also.
God Bless.
Am so blessed for you
At the base of all spiritual living & work, lies Christ's fully accomplished work on the Cross. And after successfully providing redemption & defeating the power of Satan to all who would believe, Jesus sent to us His Spirit to confirm, seal & establish our hearts in this new life.
So with the basis of the Cross & the Gift of the Holy Spirit, God's children are being prepared for higher service & a part of that preparation is the "equipping of the saints". Those believers who remain obstinate to the Spirit's urging, never grow spiritually, never receive the abundance of Heaven, & never impact others with Christ's Love.
The Spirit gives us much so that the Purposes of God are accomplished in the believer, in the Church & in the World. He has blessed us with those with particular Gifts for the building up of Christ's Church & to use to bless others. The power of the Gospel to the unsaved is found both in the power of God's Word & by the testimony of those so changed by it. The depth & richness from the Word comes from the Holy Spirit & in those whom He fills with such knowledge so that our knowledge might also increase. And not to mention the burden of praying saints, those giving of their substance, their time, their energies, & those who would get beside those under weight of some sin or temptation, all speak of the life-giving power of God to bring about His Purposes & blessings to others.
As Jesus prayed, "I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:23: to the end that the Church may be found 'unified with the Godhead in perfection'. And this was the desire of the apostles: Jude 24; Ephesians 5:27; Colossians 1:27,28; Romans 12:1: that in the Day of Presentation, the God's people might stand pure, holy, & unashamed.
As you have read, this Scripture portion is Christ's prayer to God His Father (often called Jesus' High Priestly Prayer). This prayer shows His Glory (vv 1-5), His love for His disciples (vv 6-19), & love for all who would belong to Him (vv 20-26).
So we see this Jesus, Who enjoyed the Glory of God even before creation, now declares to His Father that He has faithfully brought God's Truths of Himself & the Kingdom of Heaven to His disciples. These disciples have "kept Thy Word' & do understand that all that He has declared to them have come from God. Jesus only spoke the words to His disciples that were given to Him by God and they received them & know for sure that Jesus came out of God (out of God's Being or Essence) & believe that God had sent Him to them & the world (v 8).
Therefore, to answer your question: the Word of God (i.e. Divinely inspired messages), the Power of God (i.e. seen in Jesus' miracles, power over the devil, etc.), & the Wisdom of God (i.e. to know how to live that God-ordered, God-centred life which far surpassed the erroneous teaching of the Jewish religious leaders), would be what Jesus received of the Father to share with His disciples. And these disciples were then to take all that they learned from their Master, to the world (v 18-23).
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, SOLD under sin.
We were naturally born flesh and blood; but a body of flesh and blood cannot obtain the spiritual world (the likeness of Christ). Christ came in the likeness of us (sinful flesh) to REDEEM (exchange our body of flesh for his body of GLORY or a glorified body).
Romans 8:6 To be carnally minded (unbelief) is DEATH; but to be spiritually minded (believing) is life (you never die you just change bodies; you are glorified with Christ, you are REDEEMED.
John 17:21-22
All this was made possible by HIS WORK ON THE CROSS AND HIS RESURRECTION. He was made like you so that you and him could die together and you and him could be resurrected together; now in THE LIKENESS OF CHRIST to live a life without sin (love God above all and your brothers and enemies as yourself)
Romans 8:29
When he was returned to his Glory he addresses his self the way he did in the old testament.
Isaiah 9:6(KJV) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, (((THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, THE PRINCE OF PEACE ))).
Can someone tell me why is the SON called the everlasting FATHER inIsaiah 9:6??
Look at the opening of Revelation 1:1.
( The Revelation of Jesus Christ.)
""The unveiling "" The climatic declaration of who he is.
Look how he declares himself to John.
Revelation 1:8I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, ((THE ALMIGHTY!!))
Here is how Almighty is defined in Revelation:
Greek:
Transliteration: pantokratr
Pronunciation: pan-tok-rat'-ore
Definition: From G3956 and G2904; the all ruling that is God (as absolute and universal sovereign): - Almighty Omnipotent.
KJV Usage: Almighty(9x), omnipotent(1x).
Occurs: 10
In verses: 10
"" ME AND MY FATHER ARE ONE""
Praise the Lord!
Revelation 13:8
King James Version
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Does this mean there was a lamb up in heaven with it's throat slit before God said, "let there be light." ?
Of course not.
John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
As you said, of a truth, all Christians (born again of the word 1Peter 1:23/ John 3:3 and baptized in Jesus' name and filled with His Spirit John 3:5/ Acts 2:38)
had glory with the Father before the world was. Does this mean we were physically or spiritually there with the Father in heaven? Of course not.
The term "pre-existent" is an oxymoron.
Noone has ever pre-existed oneself.
If only people would (as your name suggests) read their bible, and stop listening to deceived men (theologians/ lying "pastors") they would be free indeed - John 8:31-32.
Isaiah 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
It was over before it began.
Hallelujah!
As this has been discussed before I will put my portion. I do not say Jesus Christ is God the Father. He is the only begotten Son of God. Though He was more than just a "sinless" man. He was part man part God. Born of a virgin who was conceived by the Holy Ghost ( Matthew 1:20, Luke 1:30-35. Even at age twelve He astonished people who heard Him. He knew God was His Father then Luke 2:47-49. To me showing He did not just receive the Holy Ghost(Spirit of God) at His water baptism in the Jordan. If the sign of the Spirit descending from Heaven like a dove was for just a sign for John or for His supernatural powers only God knows. John 1:32-34.
If some think that believing Jesus Christ is more that just a man is taking something away from the Father. God wants us to honor His Son as He is the only way to the Father. Scriptures pointing to Him being more than "just" a man John 3:12-13, John 3:33-35, John 3:38, John 8:54-58, John 17:3-5, Colossians 1:12-20, Hebrews 1:1-4.
Also titles Jesus Christ, the Son of God, uses like Alpha and Omega(first and last) in the beginning of Revelation. The Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, being King of kings and Lord of Lords Revelation 17:14. Also the Word of God and King of kings and Lord of lords given to the man riding the white horse out of Heaven. I believe is Jesus Christ.
Besides all of the miracles He performed. Him being transfigured on the mountain Matthew 17:2.
There is one True Holy Living Almighty God. Saying the Father, Word, and Holy Ghost are one. Also as how many verses I have that state the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God, and the Holy Ghost are in us after being saved. To me showing Jesus Christ is the Word of God and one with God and the Holy Ghost.
Praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ and our Father in Heaven.
God shall never allow His Son to be crucified afresh...
Matt 12:30...
a. Isaiah 28:11,12: "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing..." If you read this portion of Scripture, it has nothing to do with the experience of speaking in other tongues. It has to do with the Assyrian captivity, when Ephraim (one of Joseph's sons) is particularly mentioned who would go into captivity along with Israel, because of their many sins & wicked prophets & priests. Instead of hearing the Word of God through His prophets, they would receive the Word from those "with stammering lips & another tongue", i.e. another nation & another language, implying that the Word given would also be spoken in scorn & derision to God's people. This verse has nothing to do with the spiritual gift of Tongues.
b. the 'doctrine of the Trinity'. You would have a hard time to deny the Trinity, as it was not only believed by the apostles & the early Church ( John 17:5, Matthew 28:19, John 20:28, etc), but was also believed by the early Church fathers (i.e. those who were eminent men in the post-apostolic Church, after the apostle John). Names such as Ignatius ("For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God's plan..."; "There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord."). And Polycarp ("Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal High Priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth...and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his Father who raised him from the dead."). And not to mention Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Origen, who all believed it. This is not an RC introduced belief.