The cleansing offer here, is from the evil one, who rules in the old Adamic nature, the first birth.
The dead works are by Satan influence upon hearts & minds, thus we yielding our member unto unrighteousness Rom 6:16
The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is obedience to the Spirit. Rom 8:14
Hebrews 10:5-10
The nature of the Salvation that Christ offer was to rid us of sin. John 1:29 "ONCE & FOR ALL".
Bring us to a life of obedience, by the Spirit through the new birth 1Pet 1:2
Hebrews 10:14-18 Where the remission of these are, there is no more offering for sin.
& why, as stated in v 16,17 , the expression here is they that are sanctified, by obedience to His holy will & are made perfect, they sin no more. Christ being formed in the heart by God writing His Commandment on the tablet of our heart & placing His fear there Jeremiah 32:40
Hebrews 10:26-31
If we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the Truth, the Grace of God that appears to all mankind Titus 2:11-13
I have been reading and studying the Scriptures you have posted, I will touch on a few, by the way, great work. Again, I know my understanding may be different and I do not want to offend, I do thank you for this discussion.
John 1:4 "In him was life; and the life was the light of men." This life came from the Father,
My understanding of this, it is part of John's prolog to his gospel as John writes, "In the beginning" is the beginning of Jesus's ministry, not before creation. Mark used it in Mark 1:1 also in Luke 1:2 and John uses it again in 1 John 1:1 "From the beginning" he is again talking about the beginning of Jesus's ministry, "the Word of life" which was the eternal life from the Father, John 5:26. This life is that light that shined and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we behold his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
Jesus the true only begotten Son of God, who came out from the Father John 16:27. He was sent by the Father, Galatians 4:4 from the glory of the Father, the same matter, and divinity as the Father, and the Word was made flesh, born of a virgin and walked among us. We see in Revelation 19:13 His name is called The Word of God. Full of unfailing love and obedience to the Father, God was manifested in Him on earth 1 John 1:21 John 4:21 John 4:9. Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit without measure.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Will study more of your posts and reply, if you want to continue the conversation, I understand your time is tight.
Thank you, brother, I know I differ in this fervently held belief from most, and not believing it is offensive to many. I just would like to share just a little of my understanding of where I am on this, I know many will disagree.
We cannot deny the divinity of Christ, He came forth from the Father. Do I believe Jesus was created? NO. Do I believe the Son of God began at Bethlehem, at His birth? NO. If we look at Micah 5:2 at the prophecy of His birth Micah says He will come forth, the Hebrew word yatsa means to go or come out.
"Whose goings forth have been from old, from everlasting." The Hebrew word for everlasting is olam means long duration, antiquity, futurity, and days of eternity.
Jesus came forth and was the Son of God before creation as we see He is the beginning of creation all came through Him and for Him, Rev. 3:14Colossians 1:16. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God who came forth from the Father, (came out of) not created. Does Jesus confirm this, John, 7:29 John 8:42John 16:27John 17:8?
My understanding is Jesus is the literal Son of God, truly begotten of the Father. Jesus came out from God, His true Son, of the same matter, and divinity as the Father with divine inheritance, John 5:26John 6:57Heb. 1:4, not a title as a part of God. God truly gave His true only begotten Son John 3:16.
As the Gospel of Jesus tells us, all who believeth that Jesus is truly the only begotten Son of God. My understanding is if I do not believe Jesus is truly the Son of God I deny Him. That brings in 1 John 2:22 if I say Jesus is God, I deny that there is a Father and a Son.
Just a little and thank you again for your caring reply, you do not have to reply I just wanted to tell just a little.
First, I ask your forgiveness, and say the KJV is one of the most trustworthy English translations, but they are not perfect. When we study pray, and the Holy Spirit will give us understanding, we can trust the Holy Spirit will lead and teach us because the Spirit is truth, 1 John 5:6 do not doubt that. Believe the Scripture by being led by the Holy Spirit, not the traditions of man.
(Milk, then meat) it is a lifelong walk, and some answers will not be known but the one answer that matters is Jesus is the way.
John's gospel, his letters, and Revelation have one thing in common, to show and give evidence that Jesus is the Christ/Messiah, the only begotten Son of God who the Father sent, and in Him is life, our salvation, eternal life. Acts 4:11-12 The Father sent the Son John 4:34John 5:30John 6:29 Jesus came down from heaven to do the will of the Father John 6:38.
Jesus came out from God John 16:27 Jesus is the beginning of creation Rev. 3:14 Before Mary could touch Him, He said I ascend unto my Father, and to my God John 20:17 John's writings are full of who Jesus was, is, and will be.
What I posted was not a lie, it is a fact, maybe I should not have posted it on an open forum like this. I wanted to inspire the study, searching for the truth, and not causing doubt. It touches on a subject that many consider non-discussable, the Trinity doctrine.
This is from my heart; this doctrine has been placed equal to the gospel of Jesus. In many Churches, you are not saved and are not a Christian if you do not believe and confess this doctrine. Does the Church have the authority to say this?
Is there any Scripture that says our salvation is dependent on this doctrine that was 400 years after the Scriptures we have? Was it even discussed by Peter, John, Paul, or in any of the letters we have? I'll leave it there.
I agree with your statement David, but I think we need to be more specific. I wont call you intoxicated like Frankie did, but I do believe that you are just ignorant to certain scriptures. By ignorant I'm using it as the Bible does in the sense of you just haven't been taught.
So the Bible is the FINAL authority in the Christian life ( 2 Peter 1:19). I agree with Frankie that you need the Holy Spirit to discern the things of God in His word. The Bible clearly states that in 1 Peter 1:11-12. The Bible also says that we need a preacher, because how can we hear without one ( Romans 10:14). So the Bible was given by the Holy Spirit/God and needs to be discerned through that, because the Bible is of no private interpretation ( 2 Peter 1:20-21). God had a specific meaning for each word and only He can tell us what that is.
I also believe what the Bible says in Acts 2:17 that in the last days people will prophesy, have dreams, and visions. If the Bible says it, then it's true. That being said, since the Bible is the final authority, if anything they say happened in the prophesy, dream, or vision that goes against the Bible, then it's a false dream.
Here's how to discern if they are truly a "prophet" in the sense of them prophesying, dreaming, and having visions:
1. Does it follow scripture ( 2 Peter 3:16)
2. Look at their fruits ( Matthew 7:15-20)
3. It doesn't breed confusion ( 1 Corinthians 14:29-33)
4. It is of the Holy Ghost/Jesus ( 1 Corinthians 12:1-3, John 16:13-15)
I hope this was a help to you and there is definitely more studying that can go into this, but that's about the summary of this.
From what you've express in your open statement, it seems your understanding comes from a searching of collective consciences in their studying of the Scriptures, from the conceiving of one's own brain from the letter.
Friend.. please bear with me,
There's a surer Way, & that is to choose the better part Luke 10:39Luke 10:42
The Spirit who inspired the Scriptures, is alone the Opener of them, freely giving us their true import. 1Cor 2:13,14
For this He was sent John 16:7, John 16:13
His words are a certainty, a infallible foundation that we can bottom on or trust in.
I wasn't giving my opinion of these Scriptures, referencing Jesus own words with His disciples on the question they ask of Him, Matt 24:3 quoting His words several times in His disclosure to them, for in Him is Psalms 36:9
You've stated; "We also see things that have not yet been fulfilled" in a sense, yes, in a sense, no,
I'll explain; Jesus plainly states, 24:34 its clear He's referring to these end time events in a "present tense", many time to His disciples, They were fulfilled in them, & to all in their generation & every generation since, & will be fulfilled in the generations to come until Rev 11:15
Who inspired the holy men of God to write the Bible, which the Bible points to as the Giver of all Life, that we may freely become partake of the Life of Christ, that we may possess a personal intimate relationship with our Father though His Son Jesus Christ, who will cleanse us from all sin that we may become sons of God, by which God by His Spirit makes all these thing possible.
1Cor 15:45Job 33:4Rom 8:9John 10:10
The letter can not do this & was not given to do this. Meaning the Strong Concordance or what wherever else their is out there, it maybe helpful to the little children, but its not necessary, man have put them in the place of His Spirit in discerning the things of God.,..
For the Spirit is given for this very purpose to guide, convict, teach, comfort & counsel us. Jesus states, John 16:7
He bringing us into the very Life of God the Scriptures give witness too, that all the holy men & women of God enjoy by His Spirit
John 3:27 God,
For the Father seeketh such to worship Him, meaning being led by His Spirit & Truth in all things that pertaineth to this life & without His Spirit leading us nothing is acceptable to Him. Jesus said that I only say & do as the Father reveals it to Me, our Forerunner
David,
The Spirit will always point to the Life of Christ as our Example, John 17:17-19 meaning the words God's Spirit led Him to say & do, sanctifies Him & us. 1John 2:61John 4:17 & will alway align Himself to the Scriptures which He, Himself inspired, along with mans nobler part, "sound reasoning". His Spirit bearing witness with our spirit.
This is not against Scriptures, by no means, but fulfills them, we can't understand the truth imported by them, without the One who inspired them as Scripture plainly reveals 1Cor 2:9-14.
Job 32:8
You keep making these dogmatic statements, contrary to the Scriptures you point too!
I don't know which website you personally found this, I've stated a few times the writing of the Quakers, specifically between 1646-1700.
But,
Lets look at what you found & quoted:
""That leads us to the second key principle, our belief in continued revelation. In the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, we read many stories of God communicating directly with people. Friends believe God's revelations have never stopped, and that God might reach out to any one of us at any time."
They're referencing the Bible, it does not say anything concerning addition or subtraction from the Scriptures was made. Could it be an opening of their understanding of the Scriptures? This would be a continuing revelation as the Scriptures give witness to. John 16:131Cor 3:2
God must be free to speak to the relevant things in our lives & society, this would be a revelation too!
David0921
You're the one who are injecting this prejudice opinion of Divine Revelation apart from the Bible that's no were stated here in your quote!
One other thing that been on my heart to speak to you, if you would just open yourself to Holy Spirit & allow Him to speak, move & work in you His own Way, & that would be spiritually, what a bond-servant Christ would have for Himself in you. His Spirit was sent to replace Christ manifestation in the flesh, John 16:7 to teach us all things, is not a lie, & to be ever present with us, I've been pointing this out Scripturally over & over, but it appears that for now it is hidden from you, for you have not had enough humble pie from you last "no visions or dreams statement.
Friend; just for the record, I've had many, many, many humble pies through the years, His longsuffering love was exceedingly extend towards me, blessing & praise to His Holy Name.
Here are some Scriptures to point you in the right direction, 1Cor 2:9-13, John 16:13;
Quietly turn, looking within you & listen to the still small Voice of conscience, the one that corrects you when you done something wrong & admonishes you for it. This is the Spirit of Grace appearing within you, who is Christ Col 1:27,28 who been hidden within us, which God willed to make known unto us. Its 1John 2:27
What God requires of us is to live according to the Truth that we now know, & as we are faithful in exercising His Truth, by being doers of the Word, James 1:22-25, we grow in Grace & more Light is given unto us, Thus Proverb 4:18
In my own life journey God lead me to pray for a deeper love for Him, who is the personification of Truth. 2 Thess 2:10,11 so in my understanding of these verses, if I would truly love God more than myself. God would break the deception that I was presently in & keep me from being deceive, all through a devout love for His Truth.
So wait upon the Lord in quietness & stillness of heart, & in simplicity of soul seek His Face 2 Cor 4:6,7, He is Treasure in our earthen vessels, the excellency of the power to open our understand to received the things of God that been freely given unto us, it is not of ourselves, but of God.
Your very desire to draw closer to Him, came from the Father John 6:44 by His Spirit within you, continue in His love.
I've been reading the comments concerning the word of God, the Bible.
It appears that y'all have come to a conclusion that the Scriptures are to be the rule & guide of a Christian life, or at least finally stated this conclusion. Friends, no its not!
The Guide & Rule of a Christian life is not the Scriptures, but the Spirit, that gave forth the Scriptures
Jesus said, John 16:13, He didn't say the letter would lead us into all truth, but the Spirit. 1John 2:272Pet 1:3
Rom 8:14; not the letter, but led by the Spirit are the sons & daughters of God
Psalms 143:10Gal 4:10Rom 8:16Rom 8:9
Friends, you who are fermented on the Scriptures, do you not hear what the letters has to say?
2Cor 3:61Cor 2:9-13Rev 2:7,11Rev 2:29 etc;
Jesus was made like unto us in all things, & is our Example, its recorded in Scriptures John 7:15 was not taught by man, but taught & lead by God Spirit John 5:192Cor 5:19,20Rom 8:11 & was made 1Cor 15:45 to all that will receive Him in Spirit.
John the Baptist, was in the wilderness unto the day of his appearing; Luke 1:80 it is written Luke 3:2John 1:33 the Spirit of God came to him, taught him & empowered him for the life & ministry chosen for him from the foundation of the world.
The same principle applies to us this day, God has not change, He works the same way He always has & that's by His Spirit.
As I stated previously the Scripture true glory & honor are they give us a true testimony of Christ & point to Him who did return as He promised, & that in Spirit. The Scriptures are very profitable indeed when honor for which they were given forth. The NT is the administration of the Spirit 2Cor 3:8
Paul says Philippians 1:19 The Spirit of Christ is what lead him & taught him all that we read of in his writing. He counted all the knowledge & understanding that he previously attain to & live as Dung, Philippians 3:5-8 compare to the experiential knowledge John 5:17 he received from Holy Spirit. 1John 4:6 do you hear Him?
The Scriptures are the words of God, & a testimony of Him, but not God the Word, who was in the beginning with God before the Scriptures were written. The Jews had the Scriptures the words of God, & crucified the Word of God that was in the beginning with God. John 5:39 As then so now, people refuse to come to Him who has return to us by His Spirit John 16:13, they stick to the letters of the Scriptures without coming to the Author of the Scriptures, & honor the letter before the Author, just like the hardhearted Jews. Jesus said Matt 11:28, a living breathing person, a God who is a Spirit.
The true dignity & honoring of the Scriptures is that they give us a true testimony of Him, & points to His return in Spirit bringing us the words of salvation Hebrews 9:28 Here they are profitable for doctrine 2 Timothy 3:16 confirming to us what the Spirit declare. The Spirit that gave the Scriptures forth, He comes again to bring us into the personal experiential knowledge of them. For only He knows the mind of God 1Cor 2:10,11 thus the Scripture have their rightful place & shine forth their glory for which they were given.
One of the Quakers beliefs, Rom 8:14 a continuous revelation of God's will; correct!
This is the 2nd time you admonish me to pay attention, ok; lets look at the Scripture you refer too!
Gal 1:15-17 "call me by His Grace, to reveal His Son in me" Which is John 1:9Titus 2:11 God spiritual appearance within him, both Scriptures says to "ALL MANKIND" so everyone has this experience, which is fulfilling 2Cor 4:6
What was Paul doing in Arabia? Living & working just like we do, its in our everyday ordinary experiences in life that God works out His great salvation, the sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling of the Blood/Life of Jesus within us, which is the washing of regeneration & renewing in the Holy Spirit, as we seek to be led by the Spirit of God everyday to know His holy will. Matt 6:11 the revelation of Jesus Christ, diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in "EVERY HEART".
Friend, your missing out on your personal revelation of Jesus Christ unto you! That you may experience 1John 1: 1-4
2Thess 3:9 for them to follow their examples requires them to be enlighten & empowered by the same Power that they themselves walk in, though everyone doesn't walk in the same measure of the Power, according to their calling within His body. 1Cor12:18
This answers your opinion, what are the ministries for?
I, by no means are saying that God has not a purpose for these gifts that He has given, but they must be subjugated in their proper places. 1Cor12:25 is this case in the government structure of today's Christianity? No, by no means!
Christ is the Head, who speaks directly to the whole body. John 1:9Titus 2:111John 2:27Isa 54:13John 16:13Hebrews 8:10,11 which happens in our everyday ordinary life experiences in relationships, works etc; that God maybe Col 1:18
For some reason I thought you were saying the mystery was that salvation went out to the Gentiles and the Desciples wasn't commissioned to preach to them until Paul and Stephen.
Paul was born out of due time so he would be late in the commission.
I believe Christ came to gather the lost sheep of Israel as mentioned in Matthew 15:24.
I agree there was a lot to be fulfilled that was Prophesied in the old testament.
Even his death was prophesied.
Salvation to the heathen.
Even his deity was prophesied " Isaiah 9:6." so I don't hold the view as Gigi as this being the mystery mentioned in Ephesians 3:5-6.
I believe the Mystery goes further than just extending salvation to the Gentiles but that they would be Joint heirs and how it would be accomplished.
By way of the cross and by rebirth by the Holyspirit.
Even when he rose from the dead they asked when was he going to restore the kingdom.
Even when he appeared to them after he rose from the dead some didn't believe.
Not until they received the Holyspirit were they able to comprehend his work.
Being born of God's spirit and baptized into one body was not revealed to them neither could they comprehend it.
I believe this is what Jesus is saying in John 16:12-14.
Also John 14:26 gives an example of how the Holyspirit would reveal revelation to them that the natural mind couldn't comprehend.
I would say that there are two functions of scripture; which come from it's record. Strictly speaking; we have the Old Testament (some say the New Testament concealed); and the New (which some say is the Old Testament revealed). It is the account given
through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit ( 2 Tim. 3:16) which is useful for teaching; instruction in righteousness; etc. It contains
eternal truths as to the past; present and future state of man's soul as well as the environment which will exist (eventually a new heaven and earth for those saved; and the lake of fire for those whose names are NOT in the Book of Life. ( Rev. 20:15).
The functions; therefore would be a declaration of a future for those saved; to whom have been called and chosen and who have
heard His voice ( John 10:27); and for others who have not ( John 3:18) who are judged by their works and have rejected Christ
to save them from their unregenerate state.
John 16:8 shows that the function of the Holy Spirit is to reprove the world in relation to sin; righteousness and judgment.
The writings and copies of texts are so accurate that if one LETTER was off on the count of the Pentateuch (first five texts of
the Bible) it would be destroyed and started again. This also demonstrates certain patterns in scripture which I won't venture
into here; but the Bible of course is also useful for history; lessons of sins to avoid; and every other instruction manual on practical wisdom for our lives and has different forms that are poetic; prophetic; acrostic; and intersect personal lives with larger themes seemlessly. Therefore there are many applications which the Bible can be beneficial for (even as a learning tool for a given language before it was kicked out of the schools).
Verleen, This is for the questions asked about the Holy Ghost. I am a messianic believer of Jesus {Yashua is his real name, Ya=God. Shua=Salvation} I pray I can clarify some of your doubts.
1.{ John 3:16} God so loved the world, that he sent his only begotten son, that whoever believed on him shall not perish but have everlasting life, this is Jesus who was, and still is the savior of mankind, he came to teach us on how we can have everlasting life. he gave us the example that we should be baptized as he was. The Holy Spirit descended upon him and abode in him, { Luke 4:1}, {Mathew 3:16} this was necessary for him to begin his ministry to the people of Israel. It was through the Holy spirit that he performed the miracles mentioned in the Bible. { Mark 5:41} and by whom he taught with authority.
2. The New Testament Church became to being through the four Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, these four were witnesses, of Jesus's Divine teachings. Jesus, he told them he will send his Holy Spirit, { John 14:26}, { Acts 2:4}, { Acts 4:31}
Here again, the Holy Spirit enabled them to perform miracles and teach others {also the Gentiles} about the Kingdom of God. { Acts 10:19}
3. There are true Believers who worship God, in truth and in the Spirit, for God is a Spirit so we must worship in the Spirit. This of course is after believing that God sent his Son, as the word says, that whoever believes in Jesus as our Savior must be Baptized in his real name, as the Hebrew Bible instructs us, his name is "Yashua" He is a newborn person, therefore, this born-again person will also receive the Holy Spirit. {Psalm32:8}, { John 16:13}, { john 3:5}. I hope that these verses from the Bible, will help you understand the Importance the Holy Spirit has had in the life of Jesus in his teachings, the New Testament brought about by the four gospels of the Apostles, and to our very own lives today. This is a wonderful promise given to us who believe in the Savior, { Numbers 23;19} God Bless you.
The last posting discusses repentance. John 16:8 is a theme I have repeated several times in regard to sin; righteousness and judgment to come being the primary purpose of the Holy Spirit today. In many testimonies there is little emphasis on sin that
someone is saved from; especially a grasp of the sin NATURE. God's love is usually described in some detail; but any concept of a foreign righteousness that we experience (such as with Daniel; Isaiah and John the Revelator when they encountered the risen Christ; or Paul's Damascus Road experience in Acts 9 which brings us flat on our faces is often lacking.
We see these issues especially with the heaven and hell encounters that are described (whether real or fallacious). Trying to
sort out fact from fiction is too involved to have a detailed analysis in this posting. In these type of testimonies especially; but also in many others we see the concept of "losing one's salvation" as a common theme. A general warning here in such a mindset is discarding clear scriptures on the subject as well as taking hope away for those who truly love Christ by causing them to live in constant fear that a particular sin can make them be lost. This needs to be balanced with those who are too confident that they are saved who haven't tested themselves to see if they are in the faith ( 2 Cor. 13:5-6).
It is understandable with a number of young people especially who had an initial faith in God or exposure to the Gospel who repent as a Prodigal son after a time of rebellion may see how the love of Christ was a constant thing in their lives in the background. What we don't see is too many people who clearly understand that we are enemies of God; and alienated from His presence before coming to faith ( Romans 5:10 etal).
And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. (PHillipians 1:28).
There is only ONE SIN ..... UNBELIEF .....all other sins are COVERED by the blood of Christ.
John 16:8 And when HE IS COME, he (the Holy Ghost) will reprove the world of SIN .... UNBELIEF ..... the HOLY Ghost is going to rule the world with a rod or iron (truth and mercy)
John 16:9 OF SIN, because they BELIEVE NOT on me (THE WORD) .....
Most believe Jesus came for the WORKS of the cross ..... they don't BELIEVE those WORKS ....
ALL BODIES DIED (yours, mine, and Christ's) on the cross 2000 years ago; ONLY ONE BODY arose, the BODY of CHRIST.
1 Corinthians 12:27 ... NOW ye are the BODY of Christ ..... who did NO SIN .....
There is NO .... I, me, myself ... ONLY ONE BODY .... the body of Christ ..... all creation, the NEW CREATION ....
John 17:22 And the glory that thou (the Spirit that raised Christ) has given me, I have GIVEN THEM (the new creation) that they may be ONE as we are ONE.
If you don't BELIEVE his WORDS your continuing in SIN ..... if you BELIEVE his WORDS you CANNOT SIN .... your just doing what Christ WILLS and Causes you TO DO.
Colossians 1:27 ..... this MYSTERY .... Christ in YOU ......
Ezekiel 36:27 And I (the Holy Ghost) will put my Spirit IN YOU (his body) and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and keep my judgements, and DO THEM.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God that WORKETH IN YOU both to WILL and to do his good pleasure.
Most don't BELIEVE the WORD.
God is giving you eyes to SEE his truth, your Christ's BODY, he is causing you to DO his good pleasure; therefore, you; his body, CANNOT SIN, because it's HIS WORKS, not your works.
Revelation 2:26 ....and he that keepeth MY WORKS to the end, to him will I give power over the nations ....as I have been given of my Father .....
God bless you as Christ CAUSES us to walk in TRUTH.
I see it as you do concerning the indwelling of the spirit upon the people of Israel. It was different than the way he indwells the Church.
In the Old Testament God often spoke in types, allegorically and similitudes. They also didn't have spiritual understanding of the new covenant ministry and the Church.
We see this evident when the Lord was talking to Nicodemus and also the Samaritan woman at the Well.
They had no idea what being born from above meant or what worshiping in truth and in spirit meant.
They didn't have the Holyspirit IN them as you see mentioned in Ezekiel 36:26-27
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, AND "CAUSE" YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES, AND YE SHALL KEEP MY JUDGMENTS, AND DO THEM.
(He will cause them to walk in his statutes,) "That hadn't taken place yet "
The death burial and resurrection hasn't taken place yet, Therefore the baptism of the Holyspirit that quickens the believer wasn't a part of their ministry and wasn't meant to be. If it had been part of their ministry righteousness would have come by the law.
We would be under the Leviticus priesthood and Christ wouldn't be our High Priest.
The spirit would come upon them to minister but It seems there was a certain season for certain things he would reveal to them.
Also God spoke to them by prophets he would anoint, today he speaks to us by his Spirit that teaches us the things of Christ as mentioned in John 14:26. (Church things!) "Something that wasn't revealed to them at that time".
Without the Holyspirit they would not have had an blood tipped ear to receive them. John 16:12-14.
Note;
I'm not digging into eschatology but focusing on Israel and their sacrifices and the law, what God required of them and what thet put their trust in.
Hello Alan Gbu....Lemme give ya my take on the parable of the Sower and his seed in Matthew 13.....My take is the wheat is a Baby Christ simply b/c the Sower of the good seed is Christ the bridegroom.....Thats y he has to know us in order the sow his good seed in our hearts.....Jesus said b/c i have spoken these Words ( his seed ) sorrows has filled your hearts.... a spiritual pregnancy.....But after the Child is born her sorrows are turned into Joy.... John 16:21....But the Child is spirit as he says that which is born of the spirit is spirit.....Thats the H.G. that Child of Promise....That New Creature that has to be born in us via his good seed.....Resulting in our new hearts and new Spirits....A new innerman that has to be born in us.....1 st the Child is born in us....Being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of God that liveth and abideth forever.....then the son, then the fullnest of the Kingdom of God in the Son the H.G. 3 measures....Untill we come into the full statue of the son of God.....Unless you receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child ( our new birth ) you will in no wise enter there in.....Whosoever receiveth one such Child in my name receiveth me....That was the great Promise.....I will multiply thy seed as the stars of Heaven....Thus the sower and his precious seed has to be sown in our hearts......Thats y he has to KNOW us.....And this knowledge is gonna cover this whole earth as the waters cover the seas..... Isaiah 11:9.....ok lemme go.....Hope this can be of some help to ya.....Gbu.....When Isaiah saw the Kingdom coming he said unto us a Child is born, unto us a son is given. Isaiah 9 :6.....I love it
Now He sits at the Right Hand of Power until Psalms 110:1-4 far above all Ephesians 1:20-22. As He works out the redemption that He purchase by His Blood/Life to everyone that would believe in His appearance in Spirit within the conscience, 2 Cor 4:6 He promise the disciples that He would not leave them comfortless, I will come back to you, that your joy maybe full. He pointed to this in the coming of Holy Spirit. John 16:7 the still small Voice in our heart that accuses us when we're wrong, & commends us when we obey Him, Rom 2:15 This is the Treasure we 2 Cor 4:7 that excellency of the power to understand & receive the things of God, is not of ourselves, but of God, for they are only spiritually discerned, 1 Cor 2:11-13
Isa 53, Now as then, Christ walks the same path as He did then, but in Spirit, He is despised, rejected of men, we esteem Him not, He's experiences the sorrow & grief in mankind unbelief of Him by His appearances in Spirit within our hearts. He has no form of comeliness that we such desire Him, meaning; the Word spoke in our hearts is Christ in Spirit, that Word is God, John 1:1; His first works within us John 16:8Titus 2:11,12 When we reject His reproof of correction, through unbelief, His words has finds no place in our hearts, we hidden our faces from Him, & run to other things to drown out His Voice, the tender motions of Holy Spirit in His proffering of salvation.
It is indeed Christ within conscience, the mystery Col 1:26-28 Jesus said to the Jews, John 5:39 as then now, God is a Spirit, we must come to Him in & by His Spirit John 14:6 When Jesus said; Matt 11:25 He wasn't stating the Scriptures, Pastors, bible studies etc; but to Him personally. The Scriptures are profitable as we honor them in their right place, the words of God, but not God the Word, who was in the beginning with God, before the Scriptures were. The true glory & honor of the Scriptures is they give us a true testimony of Him, & that they point us to His 2nd coming in Spirit. Hebrews 9:28John 16:13 OT promise Isa 54:13 it is only by receiving Him in His Spirit appearance within our hearts/conscience that we receive Him, that He may work out His great salvation for us. There is no other way! John 14:6 For in the working of the operations of faith, Rom 10:17 which is in Rom 10:8 we come into relationship & fellowship with Him who suffered so on our behalf. We experience 1John 1:1-3 in the work of redemption. Trust & love is increased as we grow in Grace.
4. 1 John 1:7-10; We all come into the world as miserable sinners Rom 3:23; but with the coming of Christ/Grace we don't have to stay that way, Rom 3:24; through the obedience of faith in the Light of His Countenance that shine in our heart, 7-10 explains the operations of Grace appearance, John 16:8 bringing these to seeds into judgment within conscience, if we then say we have not sin, we deceive ourselves ,make Him a liar & the Truth/Word is not engraft within us. But if received, He cleanses us from all unrighteousness, iniquity, transgression & sin, Titus 2:14; By receiving His convictions, is the Power received, & everyone that 1John 3:3; is experience. So there a time when He finds us in sin, & a time that He cleanse from all sin.
5. Jude 1:21-24; ; Keeping yourselves in the love of God/ is by keeping His commandments, 1John 2:3-6; John 14:24; the Light of His Countenance that shine in our hearts
& in doing so He will keep you from falling, present you faultless! This is obviously from sinning against Him.
1 John 2:3-5: speaks of keeping Jesus' Commandments, not specifically the Ten Commandments (there is a clear difference between them). Psalm 119: the Laws, Precepts, Judgements, etc. given to Israel; not to those in Christ Jesus.
"How do I determine what is sin and what is not?" The Holy Spirit Who resides in my life instructs me in all things I need to know or be alerted to: of ALL of God's Laws, of where I slip up, of things just not quite right that can be regarded as sin ( John 16:13; 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 4:30). The Decalogue in & of itself falls far short of what God would require of me. In other words, I would rather be subservient & obedient to the Spirit than to the Letter of the Law. And when I fail Him, I am gently instructed & helped to learn & follow His Path.
"So when we say that the Decalogue, the 10 Commandments, are not for us today", I certainly don't mean the Truth contained therein, including all other Laws, whether Israel or Gentile-specific, but I refer to the purpose of the Decalogue, as a whole package of Laws for Israel that demanded obedience or punishment (including obedience to the 4th Commandment).
This type of Law has no bearing on those now IN CHRIST, who have been delivered from that Law of sin & death ( Romans 7:6; Romans 8:2). If there was no Holy Spirit to indwell the believer, then yes, we must grab onto & perform all the laws we can find in God's Word & hope for the best in the Judgement. But the believer's salvation is secure because it is all of God (His Great Plan), all of Jesus (His Great Sacrifice) and of His Spirit (His Great Ministry), Who will 'present us faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy'. My obedience & confidence rests only in the Person of the Godhead, enjoying the liberty of serving Him as He directs & not conforming to a set of rules that was prescribed to judgement & death.
Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.
I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;
Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;
As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.
Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.
This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;
It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;
Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.
The person of the Holy Spirit is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person. As a Person, as JESUS was in flesh and bones, he is completely unknown, and he has several missions, as JESUS said: John 16:12-15 & 8-11:
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; but whatsoever HE SHALL HEAR, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father has are mine:therefore said I, that he shall take of mine,and shall shew it unto you.
8 When he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of Judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of Judgment, because the prince of this world is Judged.
WOULDN'T THE PERSON OF THE HOLY SPIRIT BE THE YOUNGER BROTHER OF JESUS? LUKE 15:32 - THE LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE BROTHER OF JESUS?
- The Person of he Holy Spirit has not genealogy as JESUS has; why? Because he is not a Jew.
- The NAME of JESUS is known of men, and is also known of the angels, and He is known of the demons too. But the person of the Holy Spirit has a NAME written that no MAN knows, but he himself. He has not genealogy as JESUS has.
- JESUS came from heaven and He was born in Israel. John 6:v.38 - I came down from heaven not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.
In other hand, the prophetic birth of the person of Holy Spirit is not in Israel, its in a Gentile nation.His birth is within the body of Christ-the Church-and as JESUS said, he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that he speaks, he shall receive of mine, he shall take of mine.
JESUS existed before the world was, the person of HS is the ancient of days
To everyone that has been following this conversation
In Chris last point, he has a solid reasoning concerning the Scriptures that we now possess.
Yet, none of the translations are 100% accurate, one says the meaning is this, & another says no, its this.
Ephesians 4:5; & He's the John 1;1; is Christ divided? Look back in history & take note how much blood was shed because of this division of the Word. Is this not turning Christ words against His works. The Lord is One.
Reading over the whole of our conversation, the intent I purpose to reveal was not the discrediting of the Scriptures, but that they are spiritually discerned. That man un-regenerated heart Jeremiah 17:9, would shun the cross & choose another method than ordain of God to know him. & lets keep in mind that the Scriptures are only 2Timothy 3:16; the Strong's Complete Exhausted Concordance, etc; is not! Though ever so skillfully endeavored. Man has turn this note worthy endeavor into a replacement of Him. The promise is that God will teach His people Himself, Isa 54:13; the results; we come to know Him, a personal intimate fellowship; 1John 1:1-3; This has been God's heart desire from the beginning & only by coming in the Way that He has provided will make this a reality, along with all His other promises. We must look to His Spirit John 16:13, Zechariah 4:6;
I thought it fitting to also point out how those in leadership will also be held accountable on this subject. There are few in ministry who will ask the congregation to pray for their needs; or who will openly acknowledge when they have done something amiss. Specifically; it is methodologies that are often held from worldly experience that are used to build up ministries; such as slick advertising campaigns. I prefer to hold to the seeker unfriendly camp; or perhaps what has been coined "your worst life now". Such advice is exemplified in Paul's harsh retort to the Corinthians who were living "like kings" at the time ( 1 Cor. 4:8). Sounds familiar; right? It would be wonderful to see the Gospel preached out of envy ( Philippians 1:15-16). That would be the case if the world was being turned "upside down" ( Acts 17:6); but in truth there are few that want to go down in a blaze of glory which the martyrdom at the time exemplified.
Exhortation; or iron sharpening iron ( Prov. 27:17) is also becoming a rare art heading toward extinction. Sin may be covered by the blood; but undoubtably still can lead to death; at least as far as the body is concerned. Such is the case with 1 Corinthians 11:30. For us to not have some awareness of the Holy Spirit convicting us of sin after salvation ignores passages such as Galatians 5:17. It is easy to ignore the desires of the Holy Spirit in the contentious struggle and just focus on the struggle with the flesh; for conflict to occur evidence of the Spirit's sanctification must be present. Again; without such things all of our "good deeds" simply are a remake of our actions to satiate God to the best of our ability; without ceding control to the Lord's authority and power. His RIGHTEOUSNESS is the only way we are going to want to obey His commandments; the whole emphasis of Psalm 119 as an example. And the Bema Seat keeps us humble now; every action is judged ( 1 Cor. 3:13)
The subject matter here is on sin; righteousness and judgment to come as the role of the Holy Spirit; and undoubtably I have made several postings on that subject. 1 John 4:3-5 is another fundamental precept as to the origin of a spirit; as well as verses involving the fear of the Lord as the beginning of wisdom.
I would venture to say that often things seem to be backwards in given testimonies on the initial experiences with God or the Holy Spirit. A genuine conversion gives us a sort of "smackdown" in regard to us being enemies of God; which should occur when we realize that we have been heading to hell up until that point and that our sin NATURE is the real source of this enmity. Many like to tout about this sin or that sin but don't get to the source of the problem; namely a heart problem. This; of course simply substitutes one action for another; where we start living with a works based merit (whether we realize this fully or not).
One wouldn't want to have a decayed; maggot filled month old steak; no matter how well it is carefully seasoned; prepared and cooked! We are all enemies of God; and only His atonement can bridge that gap and repair the damage. Running away from God or having some natural repulsion at first I would say is a better indicator of true faith of a real experience with Christ. His love; of course is understood as pure and Holy and righteous; but our desire to avoid consequences; and find some other remedy for our condition usually causes a desire to escape. Only when we understand our sin NATURE can we begin to accept our helpless; hopeless state.
Judgment to come involves individual as well as national destinies. Much of the persecution of the Prophets came from these warnings; and a true messenger of God also is persecuted for the same. Hell is unpalatable but a necessary subject; as God's love is always balanced by justice. Thus; our love should grow during sanctification; not just be reactionary.
1Jn 1:8-10 explains the operations of John 16:8; & the exercises of Hebrews 5:13;14; when He convicts of sin or of righteousness, He bring these two seeds of thought within into judgment. The still small Voice of conscience that reproves us of sinful thoughts, words or actions, this is Grace Titus 2:11 / Light John 1:9 Christ spiritual appearance within our hearts, Ephesians 5:13; to 1 John 3:8; if rejected, His word has no place within us, & we call Him a liar & why? John 3:19,20; Rom 1:18,19; rejecting Him, we suppress the Truth in unrighteousness. Therefore we don't John 1:12; but if we receive His convictions, we received the power that comes with the conviction to become the sons of God, for the 1Cor 12:7; More insight of the Spirit operations within conscience, Rom 2:15;
So there's a time when Holy Spirit comes to us as sinners, for Rom 3:23 & a time ( if we received His words ) repentance is granted & we're cleanse from all sin. 1 John 1:9; Titus 2:14; 2Cor 7:1; by the 1 Pet 1:23; = Light, becoming Matt 5:48; 1 Pet 1:15,16; for they that are 1Cor 6:17 & in Him 1 John 3:5; All by the working of Grace / Light / Spirit appearance within conscience.
Friends
Concerning Hebrews 9:14
The cleansing offer here, is from the evil one, who rules in the old Adamic nature, the first birth.
The dead works are by Satan influence upon hearts & minds, thus we yielding our member unto unrighteousness Rom 6:16
The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is obedience to the Spirit. Rom 8:14
Hebrews 10:5-10
The nature of the Salvation that Christ offer was to rid us of sin. John 1:29 "ONCE & FOR ALL".
Bring us to a life of obedience, by the Spirit through the new birth 1Pet 1:2
Hebrews 10:14-18 Where the remission of these are, there is no more offering for sin.
& why, as stated in v 16,17 , the expression here is they that are sanctified, by obedience to His holy will & are made perfect, they sin no more. Christ being formed in the heart by God writing His Commandment on the tablet of our heart & placing His fear there Jeremiah 32:40
Hebrews 10:26-31
If we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the Truth, the Grace of God that appears to all mankind Titus 2:11-13
The Holy Spirit who John 16:8
I have been reading and studying the Scriptures you have posted, I will touch on a few, by the way, great work. Again, I know my understanding may be different and I do not want to offend, I do thank you for this discussion.
John 1:4 "In him was life; and the life was the light of men." This life came from the Father,
My understanding of this, it is part of John's prolog to his gospel as John writes, "In the beginning" is the beginning of Jesus's ministry, not before creation. Mark used it in Mark 1:1 also in Luke 1:2 and John uses it again in 1 John 1:1 "From the beginning" he is again talking about the beginning of Jesus's ministry, "the Word of life" which was the eternal life from the Father, John 5:26. This life is that light that shined and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we behold his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
Jesus the true only begotten Son of God, who came out from the Father John 16:27. He was sent by the Father, Galatians 4:4 from the glory of the Father, the same matter, and divinity as the Father, and the Word was made flesh, born of a virgin and walked among us. We see in Revelation 19:13 His name is called The Word of God. Full of unfailing love and obedience to the Father, God was manifested in Him on earth 1 John 1:2 1 John 4:2 1 John 4:9. Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit without measure.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Will study more of your posts and reply, if you want to continue the conversation, I understand your time is tight.
God bless,
RLW
Thank you, brother, I know I differ in this fervently held belief from most, and not believing it is offensive to many. I just would like to share just a little of my understanding of where I am on this, I know many will disagree.
We cannot deny the divinity of Christ, He came forth from the Father. Do I believe Jesus was created? NO. Do I believe the Son of God began at Bethlehem, at His birth? NO. If we look at Micah 5:2 at the prophecy of His birth Micah says He will come forth, the Hebrew word yatsa means to go or come out.
"Whose goings forth have been from old, from everlasting." The Hebrew word for everlasting is olam means long duration, antiquity, futurity, and days of eternity.
Jesus came forth and was the Son of God before creation as we see He is the beginning of creation all came through Him and for Him, Rev. 3:14 Colossians 1:16. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God who came forth from the Father, (came out of) not created. Does Jesus confirm this, John, 7:29 John 8:42 John 16:27 John 17:8?
My understanding is Jesus is the literal Son of God, truly begotten of the Father. Jesus came out from God, His true Son, of the same matter, and divinity as the Father with divine inheritance, John 5:26 John 6:57 Heb. 1:4, not a title as a part of God. God truly gave His true only begotten Son John 3:16.
As the Gospel of Jesus tells us, all who believeth that Jesus is truly the only begotten Son of God. My understanding is if I do not believe Jesus is truly the Son of God I deny Him. That brings in 1 John 2:22 if I say Jesus is God, I deny that there is a Father and a Son.
Just a little and thank you again for your caring reply, you do not have to reply I just wanted to tell just a little.
God bless,
RLW
First, I ask your forgiveness, and say the KJV is one of the most trustworthy English translations, but they are not perfect. When we study pray, and the Holy Spirit will give us understanding, we can trust the Holy Spirit will lead and teach us because the Spirit is truth, 1 John 5:6 do not doubt that. Believe the Scripture by being led by the Holy Spirit, not the traditions of man.
(Milk, then meat) it is a lifelong walk, and some answers will not be known but the one answer that matters is Jesus is the way.
John's gospel, his letters, and Revelation have one thing in common, to show and give evidence that Jesus is the Christ/Messiah, the only begotten Son of God who the Father sent, and in Him is life, our salvation, eternal life. Acts 4:11-12 The Father sent the Son John 4:34 John 5:30 John 6:29 Jesus came down from heaven to do the will of the Father John 6:38.
Jesus came out from God John 16:27 Jesus is the beginning of creation Rev. 3:14 Before Mary could touch Him, He said I ascend unto my Father, and to my God John 20:17 John's writings are full of who Jesus was, is, and will be.
What I posted was not a lie, it is a fact, maybe I should not have posted it on an open forum like this. I wanted to inspire the study, searching for the truth, and not causing doubt. It touches on a subject that many consider non-discussable, the Trinity doctrine.
This is from my heart; this doctrine has been placed equal to the gospel of Jesus. In many Churches, you are not saved and are not a Christian if you do not believe and confess this doctrine. Does the Church have the authority to say this?
Is there any Scripture that says our salvation is dependent on this doctrine that was 400 years after the Scriptures we have? Was it even discussed by Peter, John, Paul, or in any of the letters we have? I'll leave it there.
I am sorry if I have offended you.
Love you all and God bless,
RLW
I left out the most important aspect!
Even though the Apostles walked, saw, and heard Jesus in person, they couldn't perceive the spiritual truth.
They had to wait on the Holyspirit.
John 16:13-14.
Bless you
So the Bible is the FINAL authority in the Christian life ( 2 Peter 1:19). I agree with Frankie that you need the Holy Spirit to discern the things of God in His word. The Bible clearly states that in 1 Peter 1:11-12. The Bible also says that we need a preacher, because how can we hear without one ( Romans 10:14). So the Bible was given by the Holy Spirit/God and needs to be discerned through that, because the Bible is of no private interpretation ( 2 Peter 1:20-21). God had a specific meaning for each word and only He can tell us what that is.
I also believe what the Bible says in Acts 2:17 that in the last days people will prophesy, have dreams, and visions. If the Bible says it, then it's true. That being said, since the Bible is the final authority, if anything they say happened in the prophesy, dream, or vision that goes against the Bible, then it's a false dream.
Here's how to discern if they are truly a "prophet" in the sense of them prophesying, dreaming, and having visions:
1. Does it follow scripture ( 2 Peter 3:16)
2. Look at their fruits ( Matthew 7:15-20)
3. It doesn't breed confusion ( 1 Corinthians 14:29-33)
4. It is of the Holy Ghost/Jesus ( 1 Corinthians 12:1-3, John 16:13-15)
I hope this was a help to you and there is definitely more studying that can go into this, but that's about the summary of this.
Hi Ronald
From what you've express in your open statement, it seems your understanding comes from a searching of collective consciences in their studying of the Scriptures, from the conceiving of one's own brain from the letter.
Friend.. please bear with me,
There's a surer Way, & that is to choose the better part Luke 10:39 Luke 10:42
The Spirit who inspired the Scriptures, is alone the Opener of them, freely giving us their true import. 1Cor 2:13,14
For this He was sent John 16:7, John 16:13
His words are a certainty, a infallible foundation that we can bottom on or trust in.
I wasn't giving my opinion of these Scriptures, referencing Jesus own words with His disciples on the question they ask of Him, Matt 24:3 quoting His words several times in His disclosure to them, for in Him is Psalms 36:9
You've stated; "We also see things that have not yet been fulfilled" in a sense, yes, in a sense, no,
I'll explain; Jesus plainly states, 24:34 its clear He's referring to these end time events in a "present tense", many time to His disciples, They were fulfilled in them, & to all in their generation & every generation since, & will be fulfilled in the generations to come until Rev 11:15
the Rule & Guide of a Christian life
Who inspired the holy men of God to write the Bible, which the Bible points to as the Giver of all Life, that we may freely become partake of the Life of Christ, that we may possess a personal intimate relationship with our Father though His Son Jesus Christ, who will cleanse us from all sin that we may become sons of God, by which God by His Spirit makes all these thing possible.
1Cor 15:45 Job 33:4 Rom 8:9 John 10:10
The letter can not do this & was not given to do this. Meaning the Strong Concordance or what wherever else their is out there, it maybe helpful to the little children, but its not necessary, man have put them in the place of His Spirit in discerning the things of God.,..
For the Spirit is given for this very purpose to guide, convict, teach, comfort & counsel us. Jesus states, John 16:7
He bringing us into the very Life of God the Scriptures give witness too, that all the holy men & women of God enjoy by His Spirit
John 3:27 God,
For the Father seeketh such to worship Him, meaning being led by His Spirit & Truth in all things that pertaineth to this life & without His Spirit leading us nothing is acceptable to Him. Jesus said that I only say & do as the Father reveals it to Me, our Forerunner
David,
The Spirit will always point to the Life of Christ as our Example, John 17:17-19 meaning the words God's Spirit led Him to say & do, sanctifies Him & us. 1John 2:6 1John 4:17 & will alway align Himself to the Scriptures which He, Himself inspired, along with mans nobler part, "sound reasoning". His Spirit bearing witness with our spirit.
This is not against Scriptures, by no means, but fulfills them, we can't understand the truth imported by them, without the One who inspired them as Scripture plainly reveals 1Cor 2:9-14.
Job 32:8
You keep making these dogmatic statements, contrary to the Scriptures you point too!
Friend, your intoxicated. Rev 17:2 Rev 18:3,4
in L & T
I don't know which website you personally found this, I've stated a few times the writing of the Quakers, specifically between 1646-1700.
But,
Lets look at what you found & quoted:
""That leads us to the second key principle, our belief in continued revelation. In the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament, we read many stories of God communicating directly with people. Friends believe God's revelations have never stopped, and that God might reach out to any one of us at any time."
They're referencing the Bible, it does not say anything concerning addition or subtraction from the Scriptures was made. Could it be an opening of their understanding of the Scriptures? This would be a continuing revelation as the Scriptures give witness to. John 16:13 1Cor 3:2
God must be free to speak to the relevant things in our lives & society, this would be a revelation too!
David0921
You're the one who are injecting this prejudice opinion of Divine Revelation apart from the Bible that's no were stated here in your quote!
One other thing that been on my heart to speak to you, if you would just open yourself to Holy Spirit & allow Him to speak, move & work in you His own Way, & that would be spiritually, what a bond-servant Christ would have for Himself in you. His Spirit was sent to replace Christ manifestation in the flesh, John 16:7 to teach us all things, is not a lie, & to be ever present with us, I've been pointing this out Scripturally over & over, but it appears that for now it is hidden from you, for you have not had enough humble pie from you last "no visions or dreams statement.
Friend; just for the record, I've had many, many, many humble pies through the years, His longsuffering love was exceedingly extend towards me, blessing & praise to His Holy Name.
Proverbs 6:23 1 Pet 5:5
In love & truth
Here are some Scriptures to point you in the right direction, 1Cor 2:9-13, John 16:13;
Quietly turn, looking within you & listen to the still small Voice of conscience, the one that corrects you when you done something wrong & admonishes you for it. This is the Spirit of Grace appearing within you, who is Christ Col 1:27,28 who been hidden within us, which God willed to make known unto us. Its 1John 2:27
What God requires of us is to live according to the Truth that we now know, & as we are faithful in exercising His Truth, by being doers of the Word, James 1:22-25, we grow in Grace & more Light is given unto us, Thus Proverb 4:18
In my own life journey God lead me to pray for a deeper love for Him, who is the personification of Truth. 2 Thess 2:10,11 so in my understanding of these verses, if I would truly love God more than myself. God would break the deception that I was presently in & keep me from being deceive, all through a devout love for His Truth.
So wait upon the Lord in quietness & stillness of heart, & in simplicity of soul seek His Face 2 Cor 4:6,7, He is Treasure in our earthen vessels, the excellency of the power to open our understand to received the things of God that been freely given unto us, it is not of ourselves, but of God.
Your very desire to draw closer to Him, came from the Father John 6:44 by His Spirit within you, continue in His love.
Psalm 51:6
In love & truth,
I've been reading the comments concerning the word of God, the Bible.
It appears that y'all have come to a conclusion that the Scriptures are to be the rule & guide of a Christian life, or at least finally stated this conclusion. Friends, no its not!
The Guide & Rule of a Christian life is not the Scriptures, but the Spirit, that gave forth the Scriptures
Jesus said, John 16:13, He didn't say the letter would lead us into all truth, but the Spirit. 1John 2:27 2Pet 1:3
Rom 8:14; not the letter, but led by the Spirit are the sons & daughters of God
Psalms 143:10 Gal 4:10 Rom 8:16 Rom 8:9
Friends, you who are fermented on the Scriptures, do you not hear what the letters has to say?
2Cor 3:6 1Cor 2:9-13 Rev 2:7,11 Rev 2:29 etc;
Jesus was made like unto us in all things, & is our Example, its recorded in Scriptures John 7:15 was not taught by man, but taught & lead by God Spirit John 5:19 2Cor 5:19,20 Rom 8:11 & was made 1Cor 15:45 to all that will receive Him in Spirit.
John the Baptist, was in the wilderness unto the day of his appearing; Luke 1:80 it is written Luke 3:2 John 1:33 the Spirit of God came to him, taught him & empowered him for the life & ministry chosen for him from the foundation of the world.
The same principle applies to us this day, God has not change, He works the same way He always has & that's by His Spirit.
As I stated previously the Scripture true glory & honor are they give us a true testimony of Christ & point to Him who did return as He promised, & that in Spirit. The Scriptures are very profitable indeed when honor for which they were given forth. The NT is the administration of the Spirit 2Cor 3:8
Paul says Philippians 1:19 The Spirit of Christ is what lead him & taught him all that we read of in his writing. He counted all the knowledge & understanding that he previously attain to & live as Dung, Philippians 3:5-8 compare to the experiential knowledge John 5:17 he received from Holy Spirit. 1John 4:6 do you hear Him?
in L & T
The true dignity & honoring of the Scriptures is that they give us a true testimony of Him, & points to His return in Spirit bringing us the words of salvation Hebrews 9:28 Here they are profitable for doctrine 2 Timothy 3:16 confirming to us what the Spirit declare. The Spirit that gave the Scriptures forth, He comes again to bring us into the personal experiential knowledge of them. For only He knows the mind of God 1Cor 2:10,11 thus the Scripture have their rightful place & shine forth their glory for which they were given.
One of the Quakers beliefs, Rom 8:14 a continuous revelation of God's will; correct!
This is the 2nd time you admonish me to pay attention, ok; lets look at the Scripture you refer too!
Gal 1:15-17 "call me by His Grace, to reveal His Son in me" Which is John 1:9 Titus 2:11 God spiritual appearance within him, both Scriptures says to "ALL MANKIND" so everyone has this experience, which is fulfilling 2Cor 4:6
What was Paul doing in Arabia? Living & working just like we do, its in our everyday ordinary experiences in life that God works out His great salvation, the sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling of the Blood/Life of Jesus within us, which is the washing of regeneration & renewing in the Holy Spirit, as we seek to be led by the Spirit of God everyday to know His holy will. Matt 6:11 the revelation of Jesus Christ, diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in "EVERY HEART".
Friend, your missing out on your personal revelation of Jesus Christ unto you! That you may experience 1John 1: 1-4
2Thess 3:9 for them to follow their examples requires them to be enlighten & empowered by the same Power that they themselves walk in, though everyone doesn't walk in the same measure of the Power, according to their calling within His body. 1Cor12:18
This answers your opinion, what are the ministries for?
I, by no means are saying that God has not a purpose for these gifts that He has given, but they must be subjugated in their proper places. 1Cor12:25 is this case in the government structure of today's Christianity? No, by no means!
Christ is the Head, who speaks directly to the whole body. John 1:9 Titus 2:11 1John 2:27 Isa 54:13 John 16:13 Hebrews 8:10,11 which happens in our everyday ordinary life experiences in relationships, works etc; that God maybe Col 1:18
In Love & Truth
I believe we are in agreement.
For some reason I thought you were saying the mystery was that salvation went out to the Gentiles and the Desciples wasn't commissioned to preach to them until Paul and Stephen.
Paul was born out of due time so he would be late in the commission.
I believe Christ came to gather the lost sheep of Israel as mentioned in Matthew 15:24.
I agree there was a lot to be fulfilled that was Prophesied in the old testament.
Even his death was prophesied.
Salvation to the heathen.
Even his deity was prophesied " Isaiah 9:6." so I don't hold the view as Gigi as this being the mystery mentioned in Ephesians 3:5-6.
I believe the Mystery goes further than just extending salvation to the Gentiles but that they would be Joint heirs and how it would be accomplished.
By way of the cross and by rebirth by the Holyspirit.
Even when he rose from the dead they asked when was he going to restore the kingdom.
Even when he appeared to them after he rose from the dead some didn't believe.
Not until they received the Holyspirit were they able to comprehend his work.
Being born of God's spirit and baptized into one body was not revealed to them neither could they comprehend it.
I believe this is what Jesus is saying in John 16:12-14.
Also John 14:26 gives an example of how the Holyspirit would reveal revelation to them that the natural mind couldn't comprehend.
God bless.
through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit ( 2 Tim. 3:16) which is useful for teaching; instruction in righteousness; etc. It contains
eternal truths as to the past; present and future state of man's soul as well as the environment which will exist (eventually a new heaven and earth for those saved; and the lake of fire for those whose names are NOT in the Book of Life. ( Rev. 20:15).
The functions; therefore would be a declaration of a future for those saved; to whom have been called and chosen and who have
heard His voice ( John 10:27); and for others who have not ( John 3:18) who are judged by their works and have rejected Christ
to save them from their unregenerate state.
John 16:8 shows that the function of the Holy Spirit is to reprove the world in relation to sin; righteousness and judgment.
The writings and copies of texts are so accurate that if one LETTER was off on the count of the Pentateuch (first five texts of
the Bible) it would be destroyed and started again. This also demonstrates certain patterns in scripture which I won't venture
into here; but the Bible of course is also useful for history; lessons of sins to avoid; and every other instruction manual on practical wisdom for our lives and has different forms that are poetic; prophetic; acrostic; and intersect personal lives with larger themes seemlessly. Therefore there are many applications which the Bible can be beneficial for (even as a learning tool for a given language before it was kicked out of the schools).
Hope that is a good start.
Agape; RIch P
1.{ John 3:16} God so loved the world, that he sent his only begotten son, that whoever believed on him shall not perish but have everlasting life, this is Jesus who was, and still is the savior of mankind, he came to teach us on how we can have everlasting life. he gave us the example that we should be baptized as he was. The Holy Spirit descended upon him and abode in him, { Luke 4:1}, {Mathew 3:16} this was necessary for him to begin his ministry to the people of Israel. It was through the Holy spirit that he performed the miracles mentioned in the Bible. { Mark 5:41} and by whom he taught with authority.
2. The New Testament Church became to being through the four Gospels of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, these four were witnesses, of Jesus's Divine teachings. Jesus, he told them he will send his Holy Spirit, { John 14:26}, { Acts 2:4}, { Acts 4:31}
Here again, the Holy Spirit enabled them to perform miracles and teach others {also the Gentiles} about the Kingdom of God. { Acts 10:19}
3. There are true Believers who worship God, in truth and in the Spirit, for God is a Spirit so we must worship in the Spirit. This of course is after believing that God sent his Son, as the word says, that whoever believes in Jesus as our Savior must be Baptized in his real name, as the Hebrew Bible instructs us, his name is "Yashua" He is a newborn person, therefore, this born-again person will also receive the Holy Spirit. {Psalm32:8}, { John 16:13}, { john 3:5}. I hope that these verses from the Bible, will help you understand the Importance the Holy Spirit has had in the life of Jesus in his teachings, the New Testament brought about by the four gospels of the Apostles, and to our very own lives today. This is a wonderful promise given to us who believe in the Savior, { Numbers 23;19} God Bless you.
The last posting discusses repentance. John 16:8 is a theme I have repeated several times in regard to sin; righteousness and judgment to come being the primary purpose of the Holy Spirit today. In many testimonies there is little emphasis on sin that
someone is saved from; especially a grasp of the sin NATURE. God's love is usually described in some detail; but any concept of a foreign righteousness that we experience (such as with Daniel; Isaiah and John the Revelator when they encountered the risen Christ; or Paul's Damascus Road experience in Acts 9 which brings us flat on our faces is often lacking.
We see these issues especially with the heaven and hell encounters that are described (whether real or fallacious). Trying to
sort out fact from fiction is too involved to have a detailed analysis in this posting. In these type of testimonies especially; but also in many others we see the concept of "losing one's salvation" as a common theme. A general warning here in such a mindset is discarding clear scriptures on the subject as well as taking hope away for those who truly love Christ by causing them to live in constant fear that a particular sin can make them be lost. This needs to be balanced with those who are too confident that they are saved who haven't tested themselves to see if they are in the faith ( 2 Cor. 13:5-6).
It is understandable with a number of young people especially who had an initial faith in God or exposure to the Gospel who repent as a Prodigal son after a time of rebellion may see how the love of Christ was a constant thing in their lives in the background. What we don't see is too many people who clearly understand that we are enemies of God; and alienated from His presence before coming to faith ( Romans 5:10 etal).
And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. (PHillipians 1:28).
There is only ONE SIN ..... UNBELIEF .....all other sins are COVERED by the blood of Christ.
John 16:8 And when HE IS COME, he (the Holy Ghost) will reprove the world of SIN .... UNBELIEF ..... the HOLY Ghost is going to rule the world with a rod or iron (truth and mercy)
John 16:9 OF SIN, because they BELIEVE NOT on me (THE WORD) .....
Most believe Jesus came for the WORKS of the cross ..... they don't BELIEVE those WORKS ....
ALL BODIES DIED (yours, mine, and Christ's) on the cross 2000 years ago; ONLY ONE BODY arose, the BODY of CHRIST.
1 Corinthians 12:27 ... NOW ye are the BODY of Christ ..... who did NO SIN .....
There is NO .... I, me, myself ... ONLY ONE BODY .... the body of Christ ..... all creation, the NEW CREATION ....
John 17:22 And the glory that thou (the Spirit that raised Christ) has given me, I have GIVEN THEM (the new creation) that they may be ONE as we are ONE.
If you don't BELIEVE his WORDS your continuing in SIN ..... if you BELIEVE his WORDS you CANNOT SIN .... your just doing what Christ WILLS and Causes you TO DO.
Colossians 1:27 ..... this MYSTERY .... Christ in YOU ......
Ezekiel 36:27 And I (the Holy Ghost) will put my Spirit IN YOU (his body) and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and keep my judgements, and DO THEM.
Philippians 2:13 For it is God that WORKETH IN YOU both to WILL and to do his good pleasure.
Most don't BELIEVE the WORD.
God is giving you eyes to SEE his truth, your Christ's BODY, he is causing you to DO his good pleasure; therefore, you; his body, CANNOT SIN, because it's HIS WORKS, not your works.
Revelation 2:26 ....and he that keepeth MY WORKS to the end, to him will I give power over the nations ....as I have been given of my Father .....
God bless you as Christ CAUSES us to walk in TRUTH.
I see it as you do concerning the indwelling of the spirit upon the people of Israel. It was different than the way he indwells the Church.
In the Old Testament God often spoke in types, allegorically and similitudes. They also didn't have spiritual understanding of the new covenant ministry and the Church.
We see this evident when the Lord was talking to Nicodemus and also the Samaritan woman at the Well.
They had no idea what being born from above meant or what worshiping in truth and in spirit meant.
They didn't have the Holyspirit IN them as you see mentioned in Ezekiel 36:26-27
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, AND "CAUSE" YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES, AND YE SHALL KEEP MY JUDGMENTS, AND DO THEM.
(He will cause them to walk in his statutes,) "That hadn't taken place yet "
The death burial and resurrection hasn't taken place yet, Therefore the baptism of the Holyspirit that quickens the believer wasn't a part of their ministry and wasn't meant to be. If it had been part of their ministry righteousness would have come by the law.
We would be under the Leviticus priesthood and Christ wouldn't be our High Priest.
The spirit would come upon them to minister but It seems there was a certain season for certain things he would reveal to them.
Also God spoke to them by prophets he would anoint, today he speaks to us by his Spirit that teaches us the things of Christ as mentioned in John 14:26. (Church things!) "Something that wasn't revealed to them at that time".
Without the Holyspirit they would not have had an blood tipped ear to receive them. John 16:12-14.
Note;
I'm not digging into eschatology but focusing on Israel and their sacrifices and the law, what God required of them and what thet put their trust in.
I'm fully in agreement with you.
God bless you.
God bless.
Now He sits at the Right Hand of Power until Psalms 110:1-4 far above all Ephesians 1:20-22. As He works out the redemption that He purchase by His Blood/Life to everyone that would believe in His appearance in Spirit within the conscience, 2 Cor 4:6 He promise the disciples that He would not leave them comfortless, I will come back to you, that your joy maybe full. He pointed to this in the coming of Holy Spirit. John 16:7 the still small Voice in our heart that accuses us when we're wrong, & commends us when we obey Him, Rom 2:15 This is the Treasure we 2 Cor 4:7 that excellency of the power to understand & receive the things of God, is not of ourselves, but of God, for they are only spiritually discerned, 1 Cor 2:11-13
Isa 53, Now as then, Christ walks the same path as He did then, but in Spirit, He is despised, rejected of men, we esteem Him not, He's experiences the sorrow & grief in mankind unbelief of Him by His appearances in Spirit within our hearts. He has no form of comeliness that we such desire Him, meaning; the Word spoke in our hearts is Christ in Spirit, that Word is God, John 1:1; His first works within us John 16:8 Titus 2:11,12 When we reject His reproof of correction, through unbelief, His words has finds no place in our hearts, we hidden our faces from Him, & run to other things to drown out His Voice, the tender motions of Holy Spirit in His proffering of salvation.
It is indeed Christ within conscience, the mystery Col 1:26-28 Jesus said to the Jews, John 5:39 as then now, God is a Spirit, we must come to Him in & by His Spirit John 14:6 When Jesus said; Matt 11:25 He wasn't stating the Scriptures, Pastors, bible studies etc; but to Him personally. The Scriptures are profitable as we honor them in their right place, the words of God, but not God the Word, who was in the beginning with God, before the Scriptures were. The true glory & honor of the Scriptures is they give us a true testimony of Him, & that they point us to His 2nd coming in Spirit. Hebrews 9:28 John 16:13 OT promise Isa 54:13 it is only by receiving Him in His Spirit appearance within our hearts/conscience that we receive Him, that He may work out His great salvation for us. There is no other way! John 14:6 For in the working of the operations of faith, Rom 10:17 which is in Rom 10:8 we come into relationship & fellowship with Him who suffered so on our behalf. We experience 1John 1:1-3 in the work of redemption. Trust & love is increased as we grow in Grace.
John 17:3
In love & truth
4. 1 John 1:7-10; We all come into the world as miserable sinners Rom 3:23; but with the coming of Christ/Grace we don't have to stay that way, Rom 3:24; through the obedience of faith in the Light of His Countenance that shine in our heart, 7-10 explains the operations of Grace appearance, John 16:8 bringing these to seeds into judgment within conscience, if we then say we have not sin, we deceive ourselves ,make Him a liar & the Truth/Word is not engraft within us. But if received, He cleanses us from all unrighteousness, iniquity, transgression & sin, Titus 2:14; By receiving His convictions, is the Power received, & everyone that 1John 3:3; is experience. So there a time when He finds us in sin, & a time that He cleanse from all sin.
5. Jude 1:21-24; ; Keeping yourselves in the love of God/ is by keeping His commandments, 1John 2:3-6; John 14:24; the Light of His Countenance that shine in our hearts
& in doing so He will keep you from falling, present you faultless! This is obviously from sinning against Him.
1 John 2:3-5: speaks of keeping Jesus' Commandments, not specifically the Ten Commandments (there is a clear difference between them). Psalm 119: the Laws, Precepts, Judgements, etc. given to Israel; not to those in Christ Jesus.
"How do I determine what is sin and what is not?" The Holy Spirit Who resides in my life instructs me in all things I need to know or be alerted to: of ALL of God's Laws, of where I slip up, of things just not quite right that can be regarded as sin ( John 16:13; 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 4:30). The Decalogue in & of itself falls far short of what God would require of me. In other words, I would rather be subservient & obedient to the Spirit than to the Letter of the Law. And when I fail Him, I am gently instructed & helped to learn & follow His Path.
"So when we say that the Decalogue, the 10 Commandments, are not for us today", I certainly don't mean the Truth contained therein, including all other Laws, whether Israel or Gentile-specific, but I refer to the purpose of the Decalogue, as a whole package of Laws for Israel that demanded obedience or punishment (including obedience to the 4th Commandment).
This type of Law has no bearing on those now IN CHRIST, who have been delivered from that Law of sin & death ( Romans 7:6; Romans 8:2). If there was no Holy Spirit to indwell the believer, then yes, we must grab onto & perform all the laws we can find in God's Word & hope for the best in the Judgement. But the believer's salvation is secure because it is all of God (His Great Plan), all of Jesus (His Great Sacrifice) and of His Spirit (His Great Ministry), Who will 'present us faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy'. My obedience & confidence rests only in the Person of the Godhead, enjoying the liberty of serving Him as He directs & not conforming to a set of rules that was prescribed to judgement & death.
Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.
I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;
Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;
As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.
Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.
This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;
It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;
Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.
THE PERSON OF HOLY SPIRIT-AN UNKNOWN PERSON
The person of the Holy Spirit is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person. As a Person, as JESUS was in flesh and bones, he is completely unknown, and he has several missions, as JESUS said: John 16:12-15 & 8-11:
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; but whatsoever HE SHALL HEAR, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father has are mine:therefore said I, that he shall take of mine,and shall shew it unto you.
8 When he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of Judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of Judgment, because the prince of this world is Judged.
WOULDN'T THE PERSON OF THE HOLY SPIRIT BE THE YOUNGER BROTHER OF JESUS? LUKE 15:32 - THE LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE BROTHER OF JESUS?
- The Person of he Holy Spirit has not genealogy as JESUS has; why? Because he is not a Jew.
- The NAME of JESUS is known of men, and is also known of the angels, and He is known of the demons too. But the person of the Holy Spirit has a NAME written that no MAN knows, but he himself. He has not genealogy as JESUS has.
- JESUS came from heaven and He was born in Israel. John 6:v.38 - I came down from heaven not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.
In other hand, the prophetic birth of the person of Holy Spirit is not in Israel, its in a Gentile nation.His birth is within the body of Christ-the Church-and as JESUS said, he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that he speaks, he shall receive of mine, he shall take of mine.
JESUS existed before the world was, the person of HS is the ancient of days
In Chris last point, he has a solid reasoning concerning the Scriptures that we now possess.
Yet, none of the translations are 100% accurate, one says the meaning is this, & another says no, its this.
Ephesians 4:5; & He's the John 1;1; is Christ divided? Look back in history & take note how much blood was shed because of this division of the Word. Is this not turning Christ words against His works. The Lord is One.
Reading over the whole of our conversation, the intent I purpose to reveal was not the discrediting of the Scriptures, but that they are spiritually discerned. That man un-regenerated heart Jeremiah 17:9, would shun the cross & choose another method than ordain of God to know him. & lets keep in mind that the Scriptures are only 2Timothy 3:16; the Strong's Complete Exhausted Concordance, etc; is not! Though ever so skillfully endeavored. Man has turn this note worthy endeavor into a replacement of Him. The promise is that God will teach His people Himself, Isa 54:13; the results; we come to know Him, a personal intimate fellowship; 1John 1:1-3; This has been God's heart desire from the beginning & only by coming in the Way that He has provided will make this a reality, along with all His other promises. We must look to His Spirit John 16:13, Zechariah 4:6;
In love & truth
Frankie J
I thought it fitting to also point out how those in leadership will also be held accountable on this subject. There are few in ministry who will ask the congregation to pray for their needs; or who will openly acknowledge when they have done something amiss. Specifically; it is methodologies that are often held from worldly experience that are used to build up ministries; such as slick advertising campaigns. I prefer to hold to the seeker unfriendly camp; or perhaps what has been coined "your worst life now". Such advice is exemplified in Paul's harsh retort to the Corinthians who were living "like kings" at the time ( 1 Cor. 4:8). Sounds familiar; right? It would be wonderful to see the Gospel preached out of envy ( Philippians 1:15-16). That would be the case if the world was being turned "upside down" ( Acts 17:6); but in truth there are few that want to go down in a blaze of glory which the martyrdom at the time exemplified.
Exhortation; or iron sharpening iron ( Prov. 27:17) is also becoming a rare art heading toward extinction. Sin may be covered by the blood; but undoubtably still can lead to death; at least as far as the body is concerned. Such is the case with 1 Corinthians 11:30. For us to not have some awareness of the Holy Spirit convicting us of sin after salvation ignores passages such as Galatians 5:17. It is easy to ignore the desires of the Holy Spirit in the contentious struggle and just focus on the struggle with the flesh; for conflict to occur evidence of the Spirit's sanctification must be present. Again; without such things all of our "good deeds" simply are a remake of our actions to satiate God to the best of our ability; without ceding control to the Lord's authority and power. His RIGHTEOUSNESS is the only way we are going to want to obey His commandments; the whole emphasis of Psalm 119 as an example. And the Bema Seat keeps us humble now; every action is judged ( 1 Cor. 3:13)
The subject matter here is on sin; righteousness and judgment to come as the role of the Holy Spirit; and undoubtably I have made several postings on that subject. 1 John 4:3-5 is another fundamental precept as to the origin of a spirit; as well as verses involving the fear of the Lord as the beginning of wisdom.
I would venture to say that often things seem to be backwards in given testimonies on the initial experiences with God or the Holy Spirit. A genuine conversion gives us a sort of "smackdown" in regard to us being enemies of God; which should occur when we realize that we have been heading to hell up until that point and that our sin NATURE is the real source of this enmity. Many like to tout about this sin or that sin but don't get to the source of the problem; namely a heart problem. This; of course simply substitutes one action for another; where we start living with a works based merit (whether we realize this fully or not).
One wouldn't want to have a decayed; maggot filled month old steak; no matter how well it is carefully seasoned; prepared and cooked! We are all enemies of God; and only His atonement can bridge that gap and repair the damage. Running away from God or having some natural repulsion at first I would say is a better indicator of true faith of a real experience with Christ. His love; of course is understood as pure and Holy and righteous; but our desire to avoid consequences; and find some other remedy for our condition usually causes a desire to escape. Only when we understand our sin NATURE can we begin to accept our helpless; hopeless state.
Judgment to come involves individual as well as national destinies. Much of the persecution of the Prophets came from these warnings; and a true messenger of God also is persecuted for the same. Hell is unpalatable but a necessary subject; as God's love is always balanced by justice. Thus; our love should grow during sanctification; not just be reactionary.
1Jn 1:8-10 explains the operations of John 16:8; & the exercises of Hebrews 5:13;14; when He convicts of sin or of righteousness, He bring these two seeds of thought within into judgment. The still small Voice of conscience that reproves us of sinful thoughts, words or actions, this is Grace Titus 2:11 / Light John 1:9 Christ spiritual appearance within our hearts, Ephesians 5:13; to 1 John 3:8; if rejected, His word has no place within us, & we call Him a liar & why? John 3:19,20; Rom 1:18,19; rejecting Him, we suppress the Truth in unrighteousness. Therefore we don't John 1:12; but if we receive His convictions, we received the power that comes with the conviction to become the sons of God, for the 1Cor 12:7; More insight of the Spirit operations within conscience, Rom 2:15;
So there's a time when Holy Spirit comes to us as sinners, for Rom 3:23 & a time ( if we received His words ) repentance is granted & we're cleanse from all sin. 1 John 1:9; Titus 2:14; 2Cor 7:1; by the 1 Pet 1:23; = Light, becoming Matt 5:48; 1 Pet 1:15,16; for they that are 1Cor 6:17 & in Him 1 John 3:5; All by the working of Grace / Light / Spirit appearance within conscience.
In Love & Truth
Frankie J