John 14 Predestination and the work and blessed assurance of the Godhead.
As we continue here and the following chapter; we see how Christ gave comfort and assurance immediately before the trial at Gethsemene which He knew was imminent. Heaven itself is mentioned right off the bat in verse 3. This; of course leads to confusion and further questions.
The answer in verse 6 is that no one comes to the Father but by me (Christ). So; the access to heaven is the priority; and that essentially is showing them how the Father makes Himself known. Previously; the emphasis was on understanding who Christ was and that no one could know HIM unless the Father had elected them. Thomas was told that he was soon to understand in verse 7; followed by Phillip's request to see the Father (obviously he still didn't get things completely). He then explains the Godhead and how the Holy Spirit would come soon at Pentacost to remain with them (verse 18-21) and continues to show how prayers are answered in understanding these concepts. He promises peace despite the remorse over His upcoming death; and comfort as the Holy Spirit will remind them of these things; with further reminders of these things just spoken as well.
Before we do a V-8 moment as to the apparent dullness of mind these 12 Disciples appeared to demonstrate; we should all be reminded that without the Holy Spirit we are toast; and if it weren't for restraint being enacted by God Satan would have destroyed all of us and the whole earth by now. We should see at least occasionally as Christ saw; that we are indeed seated at heavenly places and perceive the spiritual world and the unseen and not focus in on what our five senses and the devil are constantly promoting. We need to take on the milk of the Word as babes before we can mature and discipline helps; nonetheless we can do nothing without Him ( John 15:5).
John 15: Predestination and the work and blessed assurance of the Godhead.
As we continue here and the following chapter; we see how Christ gave comfort and assurance immediately before the trial at Gethsemene which He knew was imminent. Heaven itself is mentioned right off the bat in verse 3. This; of course leads to confusion and further questions.
The answer in verse 6 is that no one comes to the Father but by me (Christ). So; the access to heaven is the priority; and that essentially is showing them how the Father makes Himself known. Previously; the emphasis was on understanding who Christ was and that no one could know HIM unless the Father had elected them. Thomas was told that he was soon to understand in verse 7; followed by Phillip's request to see the Father (obviously he still didn't get things completely). He then explains the Godhead and how the Holy Spirit would come soon at Pentacost to remain with them (verse 18-21) and continues to show how prayers are answered in understanding these concepts. He promises peace despite the remorse over His upcoming death; and comfort as the Holy Spirit will remind them of these things; with further reminders of these things just spoken as well.
Before we do a V-8 moment as to the apparent dullness of mind these 12 Disciples appeared to demonstrate; we should all be reminded that without the Holy Spirit we are toast; and if it weren't for restraint being enacted by God Satan would have destroyed all of us and the whole earth by now. We should see at least occasionally as Christ saw; that we are indeed seated at heavenly places and perceive the spiritual world and the unseen and not focus in on what our five senses and the devil are constantly promoting. We need to take on the milk of the Word as babes before we can mature and discipline helps; nonetheless we can do nothing without Him ( John 15:5).
About the people that have not heard of Jesus you quote Romans 1:20. OK but in those verses people will not have an excuse for not believing in the existence of God. But God who? Muslims believe in God, but in another God. So for the muslims that in the past never heard of Jesus but still believed in a God (the one they knew), how is God going to judge them? This is where, I think, verses in Romans 1:11-16 come in. In my understanding they will be judged according to their life, according to what they know it is right, according to what their consience says to them, and we all know that there is not a single man in the world who doesn't know what is right or wrong. How strict is God going to be to them? One cannot know really.
But even for the other religions today who have heard of Jesus, is it enough that they have heard of Jesus? Is that considered that Jesus was preached to them? Ans if Jesus was actually preached to them, without any proof, say by those denominations like Catholics etc, is this enough? In verse John 15:24 it says "If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father." Which means, if I get it right, that if the one who preaches about Jesus is unable to bring forth a proof that God exists people do not sin if not believing. See what Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 2:4-5 "And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God."
Paul's preaching was not just words but with proof of God's power. Paul Himself wouldn't believe in Jesus if Jesus didn't appear to him. Same with Sergius Paulus in Cyprus, same with the guard in Philippii. So we see that Gospel was preach with proof
Now let's go to us nowadays. Is it enough that we preach the Gospel without the power that God showed in the early times?
Hi Barb, I don't think it must be one or the other.
The Bible is full of metaphors to explain things like our relationship to God. I see T. Levis shared scriptures for "sons", so I'll share different ones:
Even if I say Giannis has explained it very well, if you not "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:20-1. I can only perceived by reading "Nats if Jesus is God" you are still searching if Jesus Christ is God. I would be happy to show you how to be saved and obtain the Holy Spirit. Only then the verses you have inquired about will make sense to you because the Holy Spirit will guide you to the truth.
In John 10:36 Jesus Christ himself said He is the Son of God. If you read the entire conversation between the unbelieving Jews and Jesus Christ they will not believe no matter how anybody explained it to them. It is already prophesied in Isaiah 6:9-10, Isaiah 42:20; Jeremiah 5:21; Acts 28:27; Roman's 11.8
In John 14:28 the situation was that Jesus was about to fulfill another prophesy and that was to die on the cross for the sins of the world 1 John 2:2. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Colossians 2:2-3. When Jesus was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures, Jesus fulfilled what God the Father sent Jesus to do on earth. The mystery is that God the Father is greater than Jesus the Son of God. Remember Jesus came to Virgin Mary from God the Father. Then Jesus has to go unto the Father after Jesus rose the third day so the Comforter (i.e. Holy Spirit) will be fulfilled. John 14:16; John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:7. There is only one God. Romans 3:30; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 4:6; 1 Timothy 2:5; James 2:19. Hope this helps and that you be saved soon. Good question.
All those on earth can see Romans 1 and Psalm 19 written in their consciousnesses as they see the creation and how God made things to be. Many today have heard of Christ; but it is as the Parable of the seed and the sower. To proceed to salvation; there must be the Word that takes root; and continues PAST trials and temptations to the point of producing fruit and is continually purged to produce MORE fruit. ( John 15:2). All men fear God and will bow down to worship Him someday. ( Isaiah 45:23; Philippians 2:10-11). Unregenerate man needs a heart change though; he only fears the consequences; not how He has offended a Holy God. An unsaved man can not love Christ or God for that matter. John exposes these things.
If we are truly seeking understanding; I believe He will show us that we are vile sinners and on the way to hell. Those who are not saved or cannot hear His voice (again John describes those people) we have no desire to see who we really are; and find things in this world to our satisfaction. That has much to do with the god of this world; again who IS our God before salvation ( Eph. 2:2). Try to tell someone they are a sinner; that is hard but to say that they are truly following Satan is a whole other matter. Nonetheless; we see again in John Christ speaking this to the Pharisees. This is a fair warning to those who hold onto religious practices apart from a Spirit filled life. It is also sobering to think of those sins that we find outwardly appalling (fornication for instance) when we ignore pride; greed and even gossip because we are so accustomed to behaving this way in our society.
It needs to be said (which should be left unsaid) that since we don't understand fully the hidden counsel of God ( Deut 29:29) that we have no place to be arrogant about understanding these doctrines; and we must acknowledge the grievous sins that Calvin and Luther did while correctly expounding on these principles.
Job 2:3 And the LORD (God the Father) said unto Satan ( John 8:44 and his children, all flesh and blood), Hast thou considered my servant Job (a metaphor for Christ) that there is none like him (Christ) in the earth, a perfect and upright man (Christ), one (Christ) that feareth God (the Father), and escheweth evil? and he (Christ) still holdest fast his integrity, although thou (Satan and his children, flesh and blood)) movest ME (God the Father) AGAINST HIM (Christ), to DESTROY HIM (Christ) WITHOUT A CAUSE.
Psalms 119:161 Princes ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 of this world, Children of Satan) have persecuted me (Christ) WITHOUT A CAUSE, but I (Christ) stand in awe of the (Father's) word.
John 15:25 But THIS (Christ death and resurrection) COMETH TO PASS, that the WORD might be FULFILLED that is written in their law, They hated me WITHOUT A CAUSE.
Concept of "Master". Over and over in the Gospels; Christ is addressed as "Master". We hear of God's love and salvation; less frequently with an emphasis on Him being Lord of our lives; rarely master. I had one friend of mine from a couple years back frequently start his prayers with that term. We can argue about the slave mentality of the ancient cultures; but how often do we think of ourselves as "unworthy servants" just doing what is required? (See Luke 17:7-10). It is sobering also to think that the scriptures show the absurdity of many today who think that somehow they will treat the servants any better than their "Master" (see John 15:20). As adopted children; we have certain rights and privileges that the "hired hands" don't have. Nonetheless since we are Temples of the Holy Spirit we are to honor God's presence and not grieve the Spirit. We are His possession and are to be fit for His use as He sees fit.
Of course; this all fits in with the fear of the Lord ( Prov. 1:7 etal). It seems like backward logic; at least to the world; who consider themselves free but in reality are slaves to sin ( Romans 6:20 and many other like verses). If we love Him; we obey His commandments. ( 1 John 5:2-3). Love and obedience are NOT mutually exclusive concepts; nor can either survive on their own. Now His saints are free to choose to serve God or to sin; a concept many who correctly believe what's known as the "Grace Gospel" seem to have trouble with. Before we are saved; we are only able to sin. The truth is hidden; as it were like the Parables are to the lost. This ties into His Diety as God in the flesh; hence no earthly saints are to be given special titles such as "Father" ( Matt. 23:9). Let us strive therefore so that we can avoid unnecessary discipline through sins. The way the world views punishment now; His chastisements may seem unduly harsh. It is better than ultimate judgment in hell; and for our own good.
An individual's salvation being predestinated is wholly unbiblical. The teaching makes the Bible contradict itself and in such cases you know you have something wrong as the Bible does not contradict itself. * John 15:16&17 KJV Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained (appointed) you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit ,and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you. These things I command you, that ye love one another.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. So you see, we must believe in Him and never get the mark of the beast or deny Him and we will all be in heaven. funny thing is God already knows all, so that being said...He already knows who will or will not choose Him. He will never leave us or forsake us till His will be done and are all saved. We turn from Him and forsake Him. choose wisely ppl for you never know when it is your time. In the blink of an eye. That split second could be your last. I for one aint taken that chance in being wrong. It's a no brainer! all these little unimportant things in life are a waist of time. BELIEVE AND RECEIVE..!
Another commandment in addition to the blood on the door posts in Egypt and the scarlet thread was they had to remain in the house. The scarlet thread and blood did no good if they went outside their house. I liken this to we have to keep the commandments of Christ and abide in his house or the blood will not avail anything. St. John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
I'm going to take John 15:26 first, and this is one that has been taken out of context to show that God predestines people to heaven or hell.
Jesus says, You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: So people use this text as a text to show that predestination, that God chooses people to be saved, and that He chooses some to not be saved.
The problem is that the Greek word for chosen here, and please keep in mind that He's talking to his apostles, the final 11 or 12 that are with Him, and it's the same word used in Luke 6:13 that has a do with the Lord choosing the apostles from out of the disciples and that is what the text means in context.
He hasn't chosen them to be saved and leaving everybody else to be lost. He has chosen these apostles from out of His disciples. So these people were already His disciples but He made choices who would step up and become the apostles.
I am off to bed. I will look at the other verses and respond tomorrow.
Hello, thank you for this reply! it really helped me understand some verses. But what about verses such as John 15:16, or Proverbs 16:4 and Romans 9:22-23? these verses seem to say that God predestines us from my understanding.
No Martha, the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ are one & self-same Spirit. We understand this because of the Deity of the Spirit (i.e. the Holy Spirit is a vital Person within the Godhead, or Trinity), & by the procession of the Spirit (i.e. the Spirit proceeding from both the Father & the Son, without any change or division in God's Nature).
a. the Spirit's Deity.
Proven by His Names (Equality: 1 Corinthians 6:11; Doing the Work of God: Romans 8:15; John 14:16).
Proven by His Characteristics (All-knowing: 1 Corinthians 2:10,11; Everywhere: Psalm 139:7; All-powerful: Genesis 1:2; Truth: 1 John 5:6; Holiness: Luke 11:13; Life: Romans 8:2; Wisdom: Isaiah 40:13).
Proven by His Works (In creation: Genesis 1:2; Inspiration: 2 Peter 1:21; Begetting Christ: Luke 1:35; Convincing men: John 16:8; Regenerating: John 3:5,6; Comforting: John 14:16; Interceding: Romans 8:26,27; Sanctifying: 2 Thessalonians 2:13).
Proven by His equality with the Father & Son ( Acts 5:3,4; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14).
b. the Spirit's Procession.
Proceeded from the Father ( John 15:26).
Proceeded from the Son ( Galatians 4:6; Romans 8:9; John 16:7).
So, I hope you can see that the Holy Spirit, whether spoken of God or of Jesus, is the same Spirit, for He is one with the Father & the Son. Then when we come to 1 Corinthians 12:13, "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit", again the one & same Holy Spirit is seen here, but we now see His special work where His coming into our lives, affects our spirits and baptizes us (brings us into union) with the whole family of God (into one Body, i.e. of Christ).
Jesus says in John 15:1-2 "my Father is the husbandman." Vine dresser"
This emphasizes fruit barring is a work of the Holyspirirt, not of you.
Let's consider that for a moment, FRUIT IS NOT GIFTS AND IT'S NOT SERVING AND IT'S NOT BY COMMAND.
So, when we come across these scriptures John 13:34-35. Mattthew 7:20. 1 John 2:11. 1 John 4:20. these are the marks of a Christian and is the ONLY way they are identified! And if you cannot be Identified by this you have John 15:6 to deal with.
Your faithfulness, intelligence, commitment, being noble, teaching, serving is all good but you're not identified as a Christian by none of these and can be told I "NEVER" knew you! Matthew 7:22-23.
Let's be clear on the recipient of this love that validates our position.
We are to love everyone, but our validation is specifically towards the Brothern.
The passages in 1 John speaks expressly about HATING you Brother.
God is truth, God is light, and God is Love. We are to worship God in truth and in Spirit. When the truth is spoken it shines light on darkness, and those in darkness hates the light and they will hate you!
HUMILITY.
Another fruit with great virtue. Woks of the law couldn't bring this either. It brought pride!
Being connect to the genuine vine brings humility. Look at what the Lord tells the Pharisees in Matthew 21:33-44. Right away you see the contrast of the two vines. Israel was to be a vine, but they became a degenerate vine. Jeremiah 2:9.
Now, place your attention on vs 43. Therefore, say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The Church) Peter calls the Church a Holy nation in 1 Peter 2:9.
Humility cast out pride doesn't it. We tend to want to place our spirituality on things we do, putting ourselves on display and pointing people towards us instead of Christ.
Psalms 24:1, ._.The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell there in"
the Lord meaning.. Yhvh = translated, The proper name of GOD of Israel = Eternal 2. Jehovah 'Jewish name'
Earth = earth, land, nations, wilderness, world,
Exodus 9:29,
1Corinthians 10:26 "For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.'' the Lord's meaning 1. Supreme in authority, 2. Controller 3. supremacy, master,
Chris gave you great scripture but I want to point to the bigger more complete picture.
Ephesians 6:12, world = aion translated = an age, 1Corinthians 2:6, 1Corinthians 1:20,
John 15:19, meaning translated = kosmos= orderly arrangement, 2. The world including it's inhabitants, John 3:15-17, 1Corinthians 7:31,
John 1:10, 1John 2:16, Proverbs 29:2,
1John 5:4, John 16:33, 1Corinthians 15:24-28, John 17, 1John 3:10-16, John 9:5, 1Corinthians 6:2, Genesis 1:28, Luke 22:25-30, Matthew 10:8, Matthew 28:18-20, Luke 9:1-2, Luke 10:9, Mark 16:15-19
Let's keep these two verses in mind while we go through this section.
Matthew 22:36-37. and 1 John 4:21.
and remember the context in the previous sections.
Notice the highlights!
Jesus answered and said unto him, "IF" a man love/Agape me
( HE WILL ) keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
( He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings and the word which ye hear is not mine but the Father's which sent me.
These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:23--26.
We've established that Agape is a fruit and can't be achieved by the flesh, "Mans efforts"
Man can not produce the fruit, the vine does. Man is the branch, he bares the fruit. John 15:4-5.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, NEITHER CAN A CORRUPT TREE BRING FORTH GOOD FRUIT.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Matthew 7:15-20. When you look at Matthew 7:13-14 the corrupt tree is any other way to God presented in the wide gate. for instance "WORKS"
That's why these often misused verses follows, Matthew 7:22-23.
This is a fruitless deceived group that thought they worked their way into Heaven.
So tell me why isn't the significance of Loving one another sought after and debated above anything else when it's paramount?
Because some know they don't have that love on display and don't bare it.
Matthew 6:5-34, Matthew 7:7-27, Matthew 10:29-33, John 14:11-28, John 15, note John 15:16, John 16:23,24,26,27,
Honestly, I've had answered prayer in very immediate dangerous situations, just crying "GOD, help me" possibly even just "GOD" it's possibly because GOD knows if we love Jesus. Romans 8:27,
1 Peter 2:9 - But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
John 15:16 - Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
I believe the question is, "is water baptism ESSENTIAL for salvation?" No! It's the Holy spirit that gives life to a sinner dead in trespasses and sin.
Ephesians 1:22-Ephesians 2:1 "And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins."
I was water baptized, it was ritual and pointed to what has already taken place once I believed. I was put into the body of believers by the spirit."
Now whatever good I do is by the power of the Holyspirit. that is what the baptism is all about. A NEW LIFE! The focus is on the resurrection! By which way were we given new life?
Therefore, we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4.
The disciples were given a command to go out teach all nations baptizing them, which was a dispensational teaching. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matt 28:19.
What we have here is a picture of those being saved grafted into the genuine vine, one that gives life and produces fruit as seen in john 15:1-5. And Paul hammers at this in Romans 11.
The emphasis is on the Holyspirit empowering the believer.
S Spencer. Romans 8:1-11. - In Reply - 2 years ago
Part 3.
In Acts 15 the Disciples have a counsel on whether the Gentiles should be circumcised and keep the law, then Peter stands up to address the matter. Acts 15:7-11. Here you have the apostle Peter "A Jew" saying in verse 11, we Jews shall be saved in the same manner as the Gentiles! (By faith) "He's declaring "we jews have to come to the Lord by a new covenant".
This is the new birth spoken by Jesus in John 3:5 when speaking to Nicodemus. This is that which is spoken in
Jeremiah 31:31-34.
So here we have a new birth that provides a new nature that is generated by the Holyspirit. You see aspects of this in
Romans 6:1-23. Also, this is what is meant in John 4:21-24.
Here we have the quickening spirit by the second Adam that gives life under a new covenant where the old covenant brought death to the fleshly descendants of the first Adam. 1 Corinthians 15:45-50. and 2 Corinthians 5:1-6.
Ephesians 2:1-5 sums it up.
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
"AGAIN We're not talking about "Justification" we're talking about sanctification. Romans 5:1-21 handles justification.
GRAFTED INTO THE VINE BY THE RESURECTION OF CHRIST.
John 15:1-5.
Romans 6:6.
Now take these chapters in order-
Romans 6:1-23.
Romans 7:1-25.
Romans 8:1-39.
We are Justified and Sanctified by the blood of Christ and given a new nature under a new covenant that bares fruit by the power of the Holyspirit.
Here is a very important truth that is not discussed often and one that can tie a lot of loose ends.
What does works of the flesh and the works of law have in common? And how does it contrast Fruit of the Spirit. And what does baptism "Not water baptism" has to do with it?
When talking about salvation we like to consider verses like John 3:16. Romans 10:9. and others. But what does born from above spoken by Jesus in John 3:7 means and how should the new birth effect the believer in a way the old nature could not?
Here's just a few reference verses.
Galatians 2:16. Galatians 5:19-21.
Galatians 5:22-24. John 15:1-6.
John 3:7.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So, then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Romans 8:1-11.
I agree with the way you adressed this topic before. I believe you helped break down the biggest most divisive issue, when there is hypocrisy with abuses & blatant unrepented sins, there is accountability. I believe Jesus clearly taught accountability & old testament usually addressed as within Church / temple & leadership within, also: Isaiah 9:17, Matthew 20:1-19, Luke 20:45-47, Luke 11:39-54, Matthew 23, Isaiah 1:17, Isaiah 1, Isaiah 58, Jeremiah 7:1-17, Jeremiah 22:3, Jeremiah 34:8-12 ._..
I believe you Chris or possibly someone else addressed the question we're they ever really saved?
I address this question as to answer the many outside the church who ask because of injustice etc. This site is for those, I believe most of all.
Faith Knight, I also agree with Adam & Chris this is an issue with disagreement. & hesitation is possibly warning. But, I included scripture covering love, meekness in the way, its addressed. John 15:18,24,25, Luke 21:17, Zechariah 13:6,
Count the cost? Luke 14:26-35,
Said in sincerity of Love, through the fellowship of Faith in Jesus Christ
Talking about Prophesy... Rev. 19 : 10 I am of thy fellow servants and of thy brethren that have the Testimony of Jesus.
.....Worship God..For the Testimony of Jesus is the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY
..... John 15: 26...But when he the Comforter is come whom i will send to you from the Father, even the spirit of truth from the Father he will TESTIFY OF ME...So we see that the H.G. The Comforter IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY.
....Whats the meaning of all this, it simply means that under this New Covenant , He wants to give us the Comforter which is the H.G that is greater then any Prophet and is God...The H.G. is that Child of Promise...The multiplication of very God in humanity.
....And the H.G. is the gift of God as Jesus said and the only Gift we will ever need...And is the spirit of Prophecy
......When Jesus said behold i send the Promise of my Father upon you that was the Gift of the H.G...That New Covenant Gift the spirit of Prophecy....This is also the manchild the H.G. that we are gonna birth via his good seed the word that will rule all nations.....To whom the word came it made them Gods and this scripture cannot be broken...As Jesus said
....This Gift of God and the New Covenant is beyond mans Comprehension...The Prophets saw it and wondered what manner of love has the father bestowed upon US....That we should becalled the sons of God impling absolute sons like Jesus was an absolute Son...God Almighty....Remember God swore by himself when he made that Promise of Multiplication of Christ.
....Behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world....And initiates a New Covenant in his Blood....I will know them ALL from the least to the greatest...If i be lifted up ( his blood ) I will draw ALL men unto me..
....This New Covenant is all inclusive and Mans carnal minds cannot Comprehend it....The thieves and harlots and whormongers are gonna be there simply b/c there is no sin too strong for his Blood..In Adam we ALL died but in Christ we will ALL live. GB.
As we continue here and the following chapter; we see how Christ gave comfort and assurance immediately before the trial at Gethsemene which He knew was imminent. Heaven itself is mentioned right off the bat in verse 3. This; of course leads to confusion and further questions.
The answer in verse 6 is that no one comes to the Father but by me (Christ). So; the access to heaven is the priority; and that essentially is showing them how the Father makes Himself known. Previously; the emphasis was on understanding who Christ was and that no one could know HIM unless the Father had elected them. Thomas was told that he was soon to understand in verse 7; followed by Phillip's request to see the Father (obviously he still didn't get things completely). He then explains the Godhead and how the Holy Spirit would come soon at Pentacost to remain with them (verse 18-21) and continues to show how prayers are answered in understanding these concepts. He promises peace despite the remorse over His upcoming death; and comfort as the Holy Spirit will remind them of these things; with further reminders of these things just spoken as well.
Before we do a V-8 moment as to the apparent dullness of mind these 12 Disciples appeared to demonstrate; we should all be reminded that without the Holy Spirit we are toast; and if it weren't for restraint being enacted by God Satan would have destroyed all of us and the whole earth by now. We should see at least occasionally as Christ saw; that we are indeed seated at heavenly places and perceive the spiritual world and the unseen and not focus in on what our five senses and the devil are constantly promoting. We need to take on the milk of the Word as babes before we can mature and discipline helps; nonetheless we can do nothing without Him ( John 15:5).
As we continue here and the following chapter; we see how Christ gave comfort and assurance immediately before the trial at Gethsemene which He knew was imminent. Heaven itself is mentioned right off the bat in verse 3. This; of course leads to confusion and further questions.
The answer in verse 6 is that no one comes to the Father but by me (Christ). So; the access to heaven is the priority; and that essentially is showing them how the Father makes Himself known. Previously; the emphasis was on understanding who Christ was and that no one could know HIM unless the Father had elected them. Thomas was told that he was soon to understand in verse 7; followed by Phillip's request to see the Father (obviously he still didn't get things completely). He then explains the Godhead and how the Holy Spirit would come soon at Pentacost to remain with them (verse 18-21) and continues to show how prayers are answered in understanding these concepts. He promises peace despite the remorse over His upcoming death; and comfort as the Holy Spirit will remind them of these things; with further reminders of these things just spoken as well.
Before we do a V-8 moment as to the apparent dullness of mind these 12 Disciples appeared to demonstrate; we should all be reminded that without the Holy Spirit we are toast; and if it weren't for restraint being enacted by God Satan would have destroyed all of us and the whole earth by now. We should see at least occasionally as Christ saw; that we are indeed seated at heavenly places and perceive the spiritual world and the unseen and not focus in on what our five senses and the devil are constantly promoting. We need to take on the milk of the Word as babes before we can mature and discipline helps; nonetheless we can do nothing without Him ( John 15:5).
About the people that have not heard of Jesus you quote Romans 1:20. OK but in those verses people will not have an excuse for not believing in the existence of God. But God who? Muslims believe in God, but in another God. So for the muslims that in the past never heard of Jesus but still believed in a God (the one they knew), how is God going to judge them? This is where, I think, verses in Romans 1:11-16 come in. In my understanding they will be judged according to their life, according to what they know it is right, according to what their consience says to them, and we all know that there is not a single man in the world who doesn't know what is right or wrong. How strict is God going to be to them? One cannot know really.
But even for the other religions today who have heard of Jesus, is it enough that they have heard of Jesus? Is that considered that Jesus was preached to them? Ans if Jesus was actually preached to them, without any proof, say by those denominations like Catholics etc, is this enough? In verse John 15:24 it says "If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father." Which means, if I get it right, that if the one who preaches about Jesus is unable to bring forth a proof that God exists people do not sin if not believing. See what Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 2:4-5 "And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God."
Paul's preaching was not just words but with proof of God's power. Paul Himself wouldn't believe in Jesus if Jesus didn't appear to him. Same with Sergius Paulus in Cyprus, same with the guard in Philippii. So we see that Gospel was preach with proof
Now let's go to us nowadays. Is it enough that we preach the Gospel without the power that God showed in the early times?
GBU
The Bible is full of metaphors to explain things like our relationship to God. I see T. Levis shared scriptures for "sons", so I'll share different ones:
Be like children:
Matthew 18:3
Romans 8:17
Galatians 4:6
Be people and sheep:
Psalms 100:3
John 10:11
Jeremiah 50:6
We're clay:
Isaiah 64:8
We're branches:
John 15:5
We're salt:
Matthew 5:13
I'm sure there's more.
Even if I say Giannis has explained it very well, if you not "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:20-1. I can only perceived by reading "Nats if Jesus is God" you are still searching if Jesus Christ is God. I would be happy to show you how to be saved and obtain the Holy Spirit. Only then the verses you have inquired about will make sense to you because the Holy Spirit will guide you to the truth.
In John 10:36 Jesus Christ himself said He is the Son of God. If you read the entire conversation between the unbelieving Jews and Jesus Christ they will not believe no matter how anybody explained it to them. It is already prophesied in Isaiah 6:9-10, Isaiah 42:20; Jeremiah 5:21; Acts 28:27; Roman's 11.8
In John 14:28 the situation was that Jesus was about to fulfill another prophesy and that was to die on the cross for the sins of the world 1 John 2:2. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Colossians 2:2-3. When Jesus was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures, Jesus fulfilled what God the Father sent Jesus to do on earth. The mystery is that God the Father is greater than Jesus the Son of God. Remember Jesus came to Virgin Mary from God the Father. Then Jesus has to go unto the Father after Jesus rose the third day so the Comforter (i.e. Holy Spirit) will be fulfilled. John 14:16; John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:7. There is only one God. Romans 3:30; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Ephesians 4:6; 1 Timothy 2:5; James 2:19. Hope this helps and that you be saved soon. Good question.
All those on earth can see Romans 1 and Psalm 19 written in their consciousnesses as they see the creation and how God made things to be. Many today have heard of Christ; but it is as the Parable of the seed and the sower. To proceed to salvation; there must be the Word that takes root; and continues PAST trials and temptations to the point of producing fruit and is continually purged to produce MORE fruit. ( John 15:2). All men fear God and will bow down to worship Him someday. ( Isaiah 45:23; Philippians 2:10-11). Unregenerate man needs a heart change though; he only fears the consequences; not how He has offended a Holy God. An unsaved man can not love Christ or God for that matter. John exposes these things.
If we are truly seeking understanding; I believe He will show us that we are vile sinners and on the way to hell. Those who are not saved or cannot hear His voice (again John describes those people) we have no desire to see who we really are; and find things in this world to our satisfaction. That has much to do with the god of this world; again who IS our God before salvation ( Eph. 2:2). Try to tell someone they are a sinner; that is hard but to say that they are truly following Satan is a whole other matter. Nonetheless; we see again in John Christ speaking this to the Pharisees. This is a fair warning to those who hold onto religious practices apart from a Spirit filled life. It is also sobering to think of those sins that we find outwardly appalling (fornication for instance) when we ignore pride; greed and even gossip because we are so accustomed to behaving this way in our society.
It needs to be said (which should be left unsaid) that since we don't understand fully the hidden counsel of God ( Deut 29:29) that we have no place to be arrogant about understanding these doctrines; and we must acknowledge the grievous sins that Calvin and Luther did while correctly expounding on these principles.
As Paul travelled to Damascus he had not intentions of being saved, but it was his will that he was to kill Christ's children.
God FORCED Paul; to cause Paul's will, to BECOME GOD's WILL.
Paul is our EXAMPLE.
God's WILL, will be done.
What ever God has purposed for you, WILL BE DONE, and you have no say.
Did Jacob and Esau have a choice?
Did King Cyrus have a choice?
Did the King of Assyria have a choice?
Did Pharaoh have a choice?
No, the words were spoken of the path thy would take before the foundations of the world were laid.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, I have CHOSEN YOU ....
Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter POWER OVER the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel of HONOUR, and another unto DISHONOUR.
MAN teaches FREE WILL, God is the KING of the Kingdom, and the KING'S WILL RULES ALL.
God Bless You.
Job is a PROPHECY of Christ.
Job 2:3 And the LORD (God the Father) said unto Satan ( John 8:44 and his children, all flesh and blood), Hast thou considered my servant Job (a metaphor for Christ) that there is none like him (Christ) in the earth, a perfect and upright man (Christ), one (Christ) that feareth God (the Father), and escheweth evil? and he (Christ) still holdest fast his integrity, although thou (Satan and his children, flesh and blood)) movest ME (God the Father) AGAINST HIM (Christ), to DESTROY HIM (Christ) WITHOUT A CAUSE.
Psalms 119:161 Princes ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 of this world, Children of Satan) have persecuted me (Christ) WITHOUT A CAUSE, but I (Christ) stand in awe of the (Father's) word.
John 15:25 But THIS (Christ death and resurrection) COMETH TO PASS, that the WORD might be FULFILLED that is written in their law, They hated me WITHOUT A CAUSE.
God Bless You.
Of course; this all fits in with the fear of the Lord ( Prov. 1:7 etal). It seems like backward logic; at least to the world; who consider themselves free but in reality are slaves to sin ( Romans 6:20 and many other like verses). If we love Him; we obey His commandments. ( 1 John 5:2-3). Love and obedience are NOT mutually exclusive concepts; nor can either survive on their own. Now His saints are free to choose to serve God or to sin; a concept many who correctly believe what's known as the "Grace Gospel" seem to have trouble with. Before we are saved; we are only able to sin. The truth is hidden; as it were like the Parables are to the lost. This ties into His Diety as God in the flesh; hence no earthly saints are to be given special titles such as "Father" ( Matt. 23:9). Let us strive therefore so that we can avoid unnecessary discipline through sins. The way the world views punishment now; His chastisements may seem unduly harsh. It is better than ultimate judgment in hell; and for our own good.
Agape.
Numbers 16:5,
Matthew 20:16, Matthew 22:14,
John 6:70, John 13:18, Acts 1:2,
Hopefully these are helpful
Verses of Jesus accepting worship:
John 20:28
Matthew 28:8-9
Mark 16:1
Matthew 2:11
Matthew 21:9
John 12:13
We are also to obey Jesus:
John 8:31
John 14:15
John 14:21-24
John 15:10-14
1 John 2:3
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. So you see, we must believe in Him and never get the mark of the beast or deny Him and we will all be in heaven. funny thing is God already knows all, so that being said...He already knows who will or will not choose Him. He will never leave us or forsake us till His will be done and are all saved. We turn from Him and forsake Him. choose wisely ppl for you never know when it is your time. In the blink of an eye. That split second could be your last. I for one aint taken that chance in being wrong. It's a no brainer! all these little unimportant things in life are a waist of time. BELIEVE AND RECEIVE..!
I'm going to take John 15:26 first, and this is one that has been taken out of context to show that God predestines people to heaven or hell.
Jesus says, You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: So people use this text as a text to show that predestination, that God chooses people to be saved, and that He chooses some to not be saved.
The problem is that the Greek word for chosen here, and please keep in mind that He's talking to his apostles, the final 11 or 12 that are with Him, and it's the same word used in Luke 6:13 that has a do with the Lord choosing the apostles from out of the disciples and that is what the text means in context.
He hasn't chosen them to be saved and leaving everybody else to be lost. He has chosen these apostles from out of His disciples. So these people were already His disciples but He made choices who would step up and become the apostles.
I am off to bed. I will look at the other verses and respond tomorrow.
When it comes to Power you have none apart from what is granted by the Holyspirit.
John 15:5.
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Luke 24:49.
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
I hope this helps.
God bless.
1John 2:27,
John 14:13,14, John 16:23,
Luke 11:2-13, Matthew 6, Matthew 7:7-12, John 15:7,16, 1John 3:22, 1John 5:14,15,
Matthew 18:19, Matthew 21:22,
James 1:5, Matthew 6,
Hopefully these are even more helpful, straight from GOD's book,
John 17,
a. the Spirit's Deity.
Proven by His Names (Equality: 1 Corinthians 6:11; Doing the Work of God: Romans 8:15; John 14:16).
Proven by His Characteristics (All-knowing: 1 Corinthians 2:10,11; Everywhere: Psalm 139:7; All-powerful: Genesis 1:2; Truth: 1 John 5:6; Holiness: Luke 11:13; Life: Romans 8:2; Wisdom: Isaiah 40:13).
Proven by His Works (In creation: Genesis 1:2; Inspiration: 2 Peter 1:21; Begetting Christ: Luke 1:35; Convincing men: John 16:8; Regenerating: John 3:5,6; Comforting: John 14:16; Interceding: Romans 8:26,27; Sanctifying: 2 Thessalonians 2:13).
Proven by His equality with the Father & Son ( Acts 5:3,4; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14).
b. the Spirit's Procession.
Proceeded from the Father ( John 15:26).
Proceeded from the Son ( Galatians 4:6; Romans 8:9; John 16:7).
So, I hope you can see that the Holy Spirit, whether spoken of God or of Jesus, is the same Spirit, for He is one with the Father & the Son. Then when we come to 1 Corinthians 12:13, "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit", again the one & same Holy Spirit is seen here, but we now see His special work where His coming into our lives, affects our spirits and baptizes us (brings us into union) with the whole family of God (into one Body, i.e. of Christ).
Jesus says in John 15:1-2 "my Father is the husbandman." Vine dresser"
This emphasizes fruit barring is a work of the Holyspirirt, not of you.
Let's consider that for a moment, FRUIT IS NOT GIFTS AND IT'S NOT SERVING AND IT'S NOT BY COMMAND.
So, when we come across these scriptures John 13:34-35. Mattthew 7:20. 1 John 2:11. 1 John 4:20. these are the marks of a Christian and is the ONLY way they are identified! And if you cannot be Identified by this you have John 15:6 to deal with.
Your faithfulness, intelligence, commitment, being noble, teaching, serving is all good but you're not identified as a Christian by none of these and can be told I "NEVER" knew you! Matthew 7:22-23.
Let's be clear on the recipient of this love that validates our position.
We are to love everyone, but our validation is specifically towards the Brothern.
The passages in 1 John speaks expressly about HATING you Brother.
God is truth, God is light, and God is Love. We are to worship God in truth and in Spirit. When the truth is spoken it shines light on darkness, and those in darkness hates the light and they will hate you!
HUMILITY.
Another fruit with great virtue. Woks of the law couldn't bring this either. It brought pride!
Being connect to the genuine vine brings humility. Look at what the Lord tells the Pharisees in Matthew 21:33-44. Right away you see the contrast of the two vines. Israel was to be a vine, but they became a degenerate vine. Jeremiah 2:9.
Now, place your attention on vs 43. Therefore, say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The Church) Peter calls the Church a Holy nation in 1 Peter 2:9.
Humility cast out pride doesn't it. We tend to want to place our spirituality on things we do, putting ourselves on display and pointing people towards us instead of Christ.
more to come.
Its Christ faith were saved by not ours!
See part 9.
the Lord meaning.. Yhvh = translated, The proper name of GOD of Israel = Eternal 2. Jehovah 'Jewish name'
Earth = earth, land, nations, wilderness, world,
Exodus 9:29,
1Corinthians 10:26 "For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.'' the Lord's meaning 1. Supreme in authority, 2. Controller 3. supremacy, master,
Chris gave you great scripture but I want to point to the bigger more complete picture.
Ephesians 6:12, world = aion translated = an age, 1Corinthians 2:6, 1Corinthians 1:20,
John 15:19, meaning translated = kosmos= orderly arrangement, 2. The world including it's inhabitants, John 3:15-17, 1Corinthians 7:31,
John 1:10, 1John 2:16, Proverbs 29:2,
1John 5:4, John 16:33, 1Corinthians 15:24-28, John 17, 1John 3:10-16, John 9:5, 1Corinthians 6:2, Genesis 1:28, Luke 22:25-30, Matthew 10:8, Matthew 28:18-20, Luke 9:1-2, Luke 10:9, Mark 16:15-19
2Peter 3:13, Isaiah 65:17, Revelation 21, Ephesians 6:10-18
Hopefully these are helpful in deeper understanding, you can also pray for wisdom, James 1:5,
Fruit barring.
Let's keep these two verses in mind while we go through this section.
Matthew 22:36-37. and 1 John 4:21.
and remember the context in the previous sections.
Notice the highlights!
Jesus answered and said unto him, "IF" a man love/Agape me
( HE WILL ) keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
( He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings and the word which ye hear is not mine but the Father's which sent me.
These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:23--26.
We've established that Agape is a fruit and can't be achieved by the flesh, "Mans efforts"
Man can not produce the fruit, the vine does. Man is the branch, he bares the fruit. John 15:4-5.
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, NEITHER CAN A CORRUPT TREE BRING FORTH GOOD FRUIT.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Matthew 7:15-20. When you look at Matthew 7:13-14 the corrupt tree is any other way to God presented in the wide gate. for instance "WORKS"
That's why these often misused verses follows, Matthew 7:22-23.
This is a fruitless deceived group that thought they worked their way into Heaven.
So tell me why isn't the significance of Loving one another sought after and debated above anything else when it's paramount?
Because some know they don't have that love on display and don't bare it.
God bless.
Honestly, I've had answered prayer in very immediate dangerous situations, just crying "GOD, help me" possibly even just "GOD" it's possibly because GOD knows if we love Jesus. Romans 8:27,
Hopefully these are helpful
Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.
1 Peter 2:9 - But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
John 15:16 - Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Streetpreacher
1Peter 4:3,4,5
Hopefully these are helpful
Thanks for replying.
I believe the question is, "is water baptism ESSENTIAL for salvation?" No! It's the Holy spirit that gives life to a sinner dead in trespasses and sin.
Ephesians 1:22- Ephesians 2:1 "And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins."
I was water baptized, it was ritual and pointed to what has already taken place once I believed. I was put into the body of believers by the spirit."
Now whatever good I do is by the power of the Holyspirit. that is what the baptism is all about. A NEW LIFE! The focus is on the resurrection! By which way were we given new life?
Therefore, we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4.
The disciples were given a command to go out teach all nations baptizing them, which was a dispensational teaching. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matt 28:19.
What we have here is a picture of those being saved grafted into the genuine vine, one that gives life and produces fruit as seen in john 15:1-5. And Paul hammers at this in Romans 11.
The emphasis is on the Holyspirit empowering the believer.
God bless.
In Acts 15 the Disciples have a counsel on whether the Gentiles should be circumcised and keep the law, then Peter stands up to address the matter. Acts 15:7-11. Here you have the apostle Peter "A Jew" saying in verse 11, we Jews shall be saved in the same manner as the Gentiles! (By faith) "He's declaring "we jews have to come to the Lord by a new covenant".
This is the new birth spoken by Jesus in John 3:5 when speaking to Nicodemus. This is that which is spoken in
Jeremiah 31:31-34.
So here we have a new birth that provides a new nature that is generated by the Holyspirit. You see aspects of this in
Romans 6:1-23. Also, this is what is meant in John 4:21-24.
Here we have the quickening spirit by the second Adam that gives life under a new covenant where the old covenant brought death to the fleshly descendants of the first Adam. 1 Corinthians 15:45-50. and 2 Corinthians 5:1-6.
Ephesians 2:1-5 sums it up.
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
"AGAIN We're not talking about "Justification" we're talking about sanctification. Romans 5:1-21 handles justification.
GRAFTED INTO THE VINE BY THE RESURECTION OF CHRIST.
John 15:1-5.
Romans 6:6.
Now take these chapters in order-
Romans 6:1-23.
Romans 7:1-25.
Romans 8:1-39.
We are Justified and Sanctified by the blood of Christ and given a new nature under a new covenant that bares fruit by the power of the Holyspirit.
God bless.
Here is a very important truth that is not discussed often and one that can tie a lot of loose ends.
What does works of the flesh and the works of law have in common? And how does it contrast Fruit of the Spirit. And what does baptism "Not water baptism" has to do with it?
When talking about salvation we like to consider verses like John 3:16. Romans 10:9. and others. But what does born from above spoken by Jesus in John 3:7 means and how should the new birth effect the believer in a way the old nature could not?
Here's just a few reference verses.
Galatians 2:16. Galatians 5:19-21.
Galatians 5:22-24. John 15:1-6.
John 3:7.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So, then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Romans 8:1-11.
I agree with the way you adressed this topic before. I believe you helped break down the biggest most divisive issue, when there is hypocrisy with abuses & blatant unrepented sins, there is accountability. I believe Jesus clearly taught accountability & old testament usually addressed as within Church / temple & leadership within, also: Isaiah 9:17, Matthew 20:1-19, Luke 20:45-47, Luke 11:39-54, Matthew 23, Isaiah 1:17, Isaiah 1, Isaiah 58, Jeremiah 7:1-17, Jeremiah 22:3, Jeremiah 34:8-12 ._..
I believe you Chris or possibly someone else addressed the question we're they ever really saved?
I address this question as to answer the many outside the church who ask because of injustice etc. This site is for those, I believe most of all.
Faith Knight, I also agree with Adam & Chris this is an issue with disagreement. & hesitation is possibly warning. But, I included scripture covering love, meekness in the way, its addressed. John 15:18,24,25, Luke 21:17, Zechariah 13:6,
Count the cost? Luke 14:26-35,
Said in sincerity of Love, through the fellowship of Faith in Jesus Christ
Take heart sister, GOD knows & it's all through the Bible that HE cares about how people are treated. Especially in HIS Church: Matthew 23:13
Matthew 23, Mark 7:6, John 15:18, Matthew 7:15-27,
Read Also: Romans 12, whole chapter
Hopefully these help & encourage you, also guide you to keep on smiling & blessing,
.....Worship God..For the Testimony of Jesus is the SPIRIT OF PROPHECY
..... John 15: 26...But when he the Comforter is come whom i will send to you from the Father, even the spirit of truth from the Father he will TESTIFY OF ME...So we see that the H.G. The Comforter IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY.
....Whats the meaning of all this, it simply means that under this New Covenant , He wants to give us the Comforter which is the H.G that is greater then any Prophet and is God...The H.G. is that Child of Promise...The multiplication of very God in humanity.
....And the H.G. is the gift of God as Jesus said and the only Gift we will ever need...And is the spirit of Prophecy
......When Jesus said behold i send the Promise of my Father upon you that was the Gift of the H.G...That New Covenant Gift the spirit of Prophecy....This is also the manchild the H.G. that we are gonna birth via his good seed the word that will rule all nations.....To whom the word came it made them Gods and this scripture cannot be broken...As Jesus said
....This Gift of God and the New Covenant is beyond mans Comprehension...The Prophets saw it and wondered what manner of love has the father bestowed upon US....That we should becalled the sons of God impling absolute sons like Jesus was an absolute Son...God Almighty....Remember God swore by himself when he made that Promise of Multiplication of Christ.
....Behold the lamb of God that taketh away the sins of the world....And initiates a New Covenant in his Blood....I will know them ALL from the least to the greatest...If i be lifted up ( his blood ) I will draw ALL men unto me..
....This New Covenant is all inclusive and Mans carnal minds cannot Comprehend it....The thieves and harlots and whormongers are gonna be there simply b/c there is no sin too strong for his Blood..In Adam we ALL died but in Christ we will ALL live. GB.