In my mind, this becomes a salvation based on human effort to please God, rather than a believer's spirit & Will secured & resting in God's Salvation & living the Christian life (with its ups & downs) in the power of the Spirit. And it is the Holy Spirit that secures & nourishes the believer to remain faithful & true to the One Who has purchased him and not our efforts to ensure our salvation is secure.
What the apostles did by warning the Churches was to alert them to false teaching & if they were truly saved, to avoid the disciplining of the Lord, which He gives to all whom He loves. Just thought to add my belief to further define the life of a truly saved believer & God's continual work in him, ensuring nothing separates him "from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord". Blessings to you brother.
Even if I use a personal example: when have I strayed into some sin & not felt the gentle tug of the Spirit - when have I persisted in that sin & not been drawn into deep conviction & sorrow for grieving the Lord Whom I love? Can I ever see myself being so drawn away, that I am willing to give up Christ for the World? Never. God's Spirit will persist with me, bearing upon my self-will & obstinacy, to restore me back to the Father. At least that's been my experience, & I perceive what Jesus spoke concerning the eternal security of those whom the Lord has secured ( John 6:39; John 10:27,28). But if I sense no conviction & a life of sin is more preferable, I would readily admit that I wasn't even saved - at least not saved by God, but saved by my reckoning.
Then in contrast & what perplexes me: if I would believe that my salvation could be lost due to gross sin or leaving the faith, that would mean that I would never know in the present, that I'm truly saved & accepted. Why? Because of the real possibility that I could become unsaved. Then what should I do to return back to the Lord & re-gain His Holy Spirit? Obviously, to repent of my sin & cleave to Him, as I did at the first. But would that be enough, since I would never know the intensity of the sin that separated me from God, to the measure of righteousness that would please Him & send His Spirit back to me. Then how much could I obey Him & earnestly follow Him to ensure my salvation? Or maybe, to hold such a belief means that only in that Day of Judgement will a Christian know whether he has believed enough, done enough, repented enough, to be accepted by God?
Thanks again brother for your response. Actually, I see that my understanding of who are blood-bought, Spirit-filled believers & followers of Christ are not always the same as another's understanding. Maybe, my view is too restrictive, too narrow; but I feel compelled to hold this view considering what Jesus & the apostles described of one who is genuine & a true believer. As well, I try my best to avoid making judgement on the spiritual condition of others who profess belief in Christ - I simply don't have that authority or the ability to discern a heart's condition. If I have to deal with struggles within myself, I certainly would not be in a position to discern where a person is at before the Lord. Therefore, in the Church, there can not only be false teachers (as we've already discussed & seen in the epistles), but also false Christians (i.e. amongst the laity & Church leadership). Just because a 'Christian' appearance is seen by man, doesn't mean that this reflects the condition of the heart before God. And yet, we must accept one another as those in Christ, & encourage one another in our walk of faith.
So, if we understand that a true believer is one who is saved through Christ's Sacrifice & has the Holy Spirit in residence, becoming God's blood-bought child, what would it take for God to allow such a child to increasingly become wayward, returning back to his old sinful life, & be lost into Satan's clutches? I not only see that God would not permit it (as His Spirit cannot be willy-nilly given & taken away making God's deep work in the heart a farce), but also He immediately lovingly applies intervention to alert & restore the wayward one.
I've read your answers and I see how you understand some scriptures and since it seems that we see things differently, I will make a summary of what we agree with and of what we disagree.
It seems that we agree that a man who was saved by God's grace may sometimes, for his own (bad) reasons, change course and return to his original sinful life with all those consequences that accompany such an action. One may as well stay in the church but live in a sinful condition, that is he doesn't want to correct some things he does wrongly.
God uses any way His wisdom chooses to bring that child of His back, often by permitting hard situations to go through one's life or even permits satan to "distruct" them to a specific extend, or even He Himself "punishes" His children for a good purpose.
And it is here where our disagreement begins from, if I get it right. In my opinion you don't consider that God is powerless in front of some situations, He is actually powerless in front of man's free will, He can not violate it, He can not force people to do something they don't want to do. He works in many different ways, He makes all sort of efforts, He uses any possible way, to make people repent and return back even in the last minute of their lives. But those efforts do not always succeed not because God is not capable of but because man does not cooperate with Him, does not obey, does not repent, keeps his heart hard as stone.
God's will is that all people get saved, but not all will be saved. His Will stops infront of man's will. This is what His righteouness says to Him. There is always a condition for people to get and keep salvation. Their cooperation with God
Your belief is that finally God always succeeds in His efforts to bring His children back into repentance. But I think that there are many examples in both NT and OT that show us (in my opinion) that the opposite may sometimes happen.
Anyway, thanks for your response and the conversation we are having.
Does Satan have the authority to take away life? I believe that only God gives & takes away life. In Satan's domain (i.e. outside the Church to which a sinning believer might be sent), pain & destruction may well be the physical demise of the believer, to the end that his "spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus".
Re: "untimely death". I mean that a life was shortened because of God's action against sin. We see this in many instances in the OT & NT, & especially that we have already mentioned Ananias & Sapphira ( Acts 5); 1 Corinthians 11:27-30; Acts 12:21-23.
Re: Hebrews 10:26,27 & we can add, Hebrews 6:4-6 as well; these verses have been discussed previously by bro Jesse & myself & too long to deal with here.
Re: Acts 21:20. All I can see from this limited detail, is that the Church (the Jewish component), hadn't properly dealt with the separation of the Law & the liberty they ought to have enjoyed in Christ. Much like today, when those coming out of other religions or cults, might take a long time to understand & resolve matters that have been indoctrinated deep into their minds. The fact that the Jerusalem council seemed to understand & accept this matter didn't warrant them to address it. However, Paul always did & was taken to task for doing so.
I hope I've addressed the points you raised, brother. I know we will see these things differently, but I hope you can also see how I understand it: the Lord knows His children & they have been brought into His family by His indwelling Spirit. Does God make an error in doing so? Or, are His children secure in Him & when they err, His correction done in love, will always bring us back into fellowship. If it doesn't do so, then, speaking personally, I would have to question my salvation, that it was merely a mental or emotional assent given, without a true change in heart & spirit. And that's the only way I can understand some of these difficult, apparently contentious, Scriptures. Every blessing.
b. I note your understanding of the two Greek words in question, that there is no significant difference between them. But why I earlier suggested that "fail" indicates 'falling short', is because of the earlier verses 5-11, indicating that believers who err, must be recipients of God's Chastisement - if not, those believers are imposters (illegitimate). So why then do we read verses 12-15, speaking about their learning from God's Discipline, to follow peace with all men, & holiness of life, and having careful introspection (episkopeo)? That they might not 'fail' (fall short) of God's Grace. If we apply 'failing God's Grace' to 'loss of salvation', then God's Discipline seems unnecessary, as that would provide no correction to bring one back to holy living. But to the true believer, God's Discipline must bring about the desired results, because if it didn't, then we would be illegitimate, even as Esau relinquished his birthright & was rejected.
c. Re: the prodigal son parable. I think that the point of the story was that a son wanted to go out on his own, fell into hard times, came to his senses, & was joyfully received back by his father. I don't see any reference here to "God's punishment to cause a change of course & come back". It is as you say, 'the son's decision' to return & he was welcomed home, just as a wayward believer would, returning back setting his eyes only on God. No chastisement or punishment here, as this parable wasn't suggesting that. But we do read of God's disciplining in Hebrews 12. How that takes place can be different to each one of us: whether the gentle urging of the Holy Spirit, a stern message from the pulpit, sickness, even death (as was for Ananias & Sapphira). The point is, that a believer will receive the Word from the Lord in some way & will be corrected. Why? Because he is a blood-bought child of a loving God, even as a loving earthly father would never reject his child but first offer correction & restoration.
Thank you bro Giannis for your lengthy reply - & I trust you had a profitable time away. I'll try to deal with the points you raised.
a. Agreed, Galatians is written to believers & in Galatians 5:1, we read of Paul's urgent warning to stand fast in the liberty given by Christ & not be swayed by others to become entangled into legalistic bondage (the Law/circumcision). And so Paul lays out the Truth to these who may be considering/drifting towards this false teaching: 'if your justification comes by obedience to the Law, then God's Grace (salvation) would no longer be yours.' I see this as a warning towards a principal: 'Law & Grace don't mix, so stand fast in Christ's liberty.' Hopefully, those erring Galatians would heed Paul's teaching rather than the false ones, & hold onto the Truth.
But your question would be, 'what about those who don't heed it, won't they fall from God's Grace?' I agree that they would, but did anyone from their midst, come to this sad state of losing their salvation? Or was it simply Paul's warning to the Church about this false doctrine, that righteousness doesn't come by obedience to the Law, therefore don't be fooled by this teaching. And to add, Paul says in verse 10, "I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be." I guess, it depends how one wants to view this passage in Galatians: as a warning against false teachers or as a teaching that salvation can be lost.
Hello Chris. Sorry for my delayed answer but I just managed to get back to you.
a. Paul's letter to Galatians is not addressed to unbelievers but to the church, the saved saints of Galatia. What happened there? Some christians from other places who were Jews came to Galatia and tought people there that they can not be saved by the grace of Jesus only, but through Moses' law as well. Those people that were drifted towards such teaching were not unbelievers but were members of the local church, saved people that is. In verse 5:4 Paul tells them "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.". So one who is saved if he changes course and seeks salvation through works (Mosaic Law) then he looses God's grace, which grace in this case means salvation. Why? Because He seeks ijustification through works and not Jesus' Blood. As you write the greek word "ekpipto" is used, translated as "fallen", which is accurate enough
b. Paul's letter to Hebrews is also addressed to believers. What Paul says is that if somebody has a root of bitterness in his heart, and does nothing about it, and keeps being in an unforgivable situation, then he lacks in God's grace. Why? Because he doesn't repent and stays in his sin. The greek "hystero" is translated as "fail" which is not the same but doesn't make any significant difference. Hystero means "lack in", "left behnd", the word Hysterisis in Physics comes from this word. What Paul means is that if a believer stays in a state that he doesn't want to repent or doesn't make any efford to correct his sin, then God's grace is not upon him. Paul uses Esau as an example for somebody who doesn't repent for his sin but still wants to get the blessing, and that can not be possible. The same happens for fornicators and profane persons. Pay attention Paul doesn't talk to unbelievers, there is no point for that, those have to come to faith to be saved. He talks to believers
c. It is not God who punishes people to make them change course and come back. In the story of the prodigal son, the father didn't go after his son to bring him back. It was the hard times that the son lived through, outside his father's protection, that made him decide to go back. Once a person is outside God's protection, satan is incharge. Paul says to Corinthians about that believer who was living wth his father's wife. 1 Cor 5:5 "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." How come satan has the authority to destruct a believer? Because he lives in an unforgivable sin. Will that person eventually repent and return? Maybe yes, maybe no. In our lives we have seen many cases that prodigal sons never come back, and this is a reality. Judas never came back, Demas never came back, neither did Ananias and Sapphira did.
Often the parable of the shepherd and the lost sheep is used to justify the belief of a secured salvation, but in this case the sheep got lost, was confused, lost his vision and his way, so Jesus looked for it and brought it back. But in the parable of the prodigal son, the son didn't loose his way, wasn't confused, wasn't lost somehow, but he freely decided to go away from his house and live his sinful life spending his father's fortune. In this case father never went after him but waited for his son in the house, if he finally did come back.
d. What do you mean with "an untimely death will follow if warnings are not heeded". Doesn't this mean that he died in his sin and was eventually lost? Weren't those Jews that disobeyed Mose's Law went to hell, like all those that didn't make it in the promised land because they believed in the spies' stories? And so many other examples in OT.
Well it really gets long, I hope I don't tire you.
Please read Ezekiel 18:24. "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die." Since one's righteousness will not be mentioned, and he will die in his sin, what should I therefore conclude? That he is going to hell, isn't it so?
Hebrews 10:26-27 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."
In the above Paul doesn't talk about unbelievers, for those salvation is always available even if they once rejected it. Paul talks about people who were once in faith but later lost their faith and believed that Jesus' sacrifice and Blood were nothing really.
So brother my belief is that if ones turns away from God, and despite God's efforts to make him repent, he dies in his sin then he will not enter Heaven but hell.
Now I want to ask you a question. We agree that if somebody seeks salvation not only through Jesus' sacrifice, but through works, then he is not granted salvation. So what do you make of those Jews that believed to Jesus but still obeyed the Law of Moses. James said to Paul in Acts 21:20 "And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:". Those thousands of Jews were saved, weren't they? But how come since they were zealous of the law?
I don't mean to be offensive even if sometimes it seems so. If we don't agree it is OK, we actually know what we both believe but we try to get to a possible agreement
THE CUSTOM OF FEET WASHING and JESUS - In Reply - 2 years ago
The Old Testament references ( Genesis 18:4; 19:2; 24:32; 43:24; Judges 19:21; 1 Samuel 25:41; 2 Samuel 11:8; Song of Solomon 5:3; Psalms 58:10) show that the washing of the feet was the first act on entering the tent or house after a journey. The Orientals wore only sandals, and this washing was refreshing as well as cleanly. In the case of ordinary people, the host furnished the water, and the guests washed their own feet, but in the richer houses, the washing was done by a slave. It was looked upon as the lowliest of all services ( 1 Samuel 25:41). Jesus pointedly contrasts Simon's neglect of even giving Him water for His feet with the woman's washing His feet with tears and wiping them with her hair ( Luke 7:44). On the last evening of His life, Jesus washed the disciples' feet ( John 13:1-16). Their pride, heightened by the anticipations of place in the Messianic kingdom whose crisis they immediately expected, prevented their doing this service for each other. Possibly the same pride had expressed itself on this same evening in a controversy about places at table. Jesus, conscious of His divine dignity and against Peter's protest, performed for them this lowliest service. His act of humility actually cleansed their hearts of selfish ambition, killed their pride, and taught them the lesson of love.
Great parallel verses and if that expression of humility and service can come from the Lord we should have no problem serving one another.
John 13:12-17 So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.
Hi Giannis. Just one matter that struck me, from Richards reference to Galatians 5:4 ("falling from grace") & your reference to Hebrews 12:15 ("failing the grace of God"). Both Greek words are different as you know: (ekpipto; hustereo), indicating a different application. One, where those who seek justification by the Law instead of the Grace of God do not have salvation, and the other, those who don't "diligently" look to their manner of living (holiness), will receive the Lord's chastisement & fall short (fail) of God's Grace.
I seem to see a difference here: one where salvation is never possessed because of trusting in the Law, and the other, where salvation is undermined, not enjoying the fullness of God's Grace, receiving chastisement. The Hebrews writer goes on to write about Esau (v16) who relinquished his birthright (akin to a sinner rejecting God's Offer of salvation meant to be received & enjoyed by all, having lost all hope). He then introduces Moses ("him that spake on Earth" v25): if the Israelite disobeyed Moses' warnings, punishment of death ensued. And then to Jesus, the Mediator of the New Covenant (v24): how much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him.
In all these warnings, chastisement of the believer is God's Rod to bring the erring child back into line. But as those who refused to obey Moses under the Law & those who turn away from obeying Jesus under Grace, an untimely death will follow if warnings are not heeded. Some see the "shall we not escape" (v25), indicating that salvation would be lost if we turn away from Christ (as in Esau's rejection), but my question: is the matter of salvation spoken of here, or, the matter of death (as those so judged under Moses)? Does the believer lose his salvation or is he first chastised, even to loss of life, if he refuses to listen (he turns away - his ears/heart) from Jesus? An interesting passage; trying to marry up all the verses associated with it from verses 5 to 25.
"15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it (the blessing) carefully with tears."
Can one fall of the grace of God? One case is the above. Verse 15 says because of a root of bitterness in a believers heart this can happen.
In verse 16,17 a person that is a fornicator or a profane person can not inherit the blessing(salvation). How come? Isn't the grace and forgiveness of God available to all people? Yes but under the condition of repentance (and not only). If one chooses to not repent for sins he does, even if that person is a believer, then the grace of God is not available to him, like Judas. If one chooses to leave God's way and get back to his original sinful life then the grace of God is not available to him, like Demas. There is always a condition so that the grace and forgiveness of God is available to people. And this is called Repentance. Believers who eventually leave this world in their unforgiven sins do not enter Heaven.
Judas most possibly didn't repent for Jesus' betrayal, and even if he actually did repent he didn't proceed with asking God's grace and forgiveness. Repentance is not enough, if not asking God to forgive and not asking for Jesus' Blood. Wordly people often repent for things they do but they are not forgiven by God because they don't ask for forgiveness and the Blood of Jesus. The 5 unwise virgins (virgin means believer) were not allowed into the Marriage because they ended up in darkness, not having light in their lamps. The light represants a pure life. Darkness represants a life with sins.
Could it be said, that retreating from grace is a condition that we, who believe, at one time or another might experiance?
Becoming as little children, learning as we go?
Your insight of Judas heart after He betrayed Christ, had become the unforgivable sin. It was true also of Simon his father who did not recognize the Savior. The "Hypnotic pull" you refer too, is the Power for his Father followed with the money for His Son!
Knowing the word as you do and backing it up with its verses, is a complete use and application of the word of God.
Judas did not follow Christ after his denial, as the others did. The desciples watched and followed
Judas did not believe, nor as you say was baptised, this spiritual condition would be his demise, as He threw himself off a cliff!
Godly sorrow leads to repentance; worldly sorrow to death. ( 2 Cor. 7:10). Note that it also leads to salvation and no regret.
This is illustrated with Peter who clearly knew Christ; but he in a sense had to be "converted" ( Luke 22:32) from the mindset of his old nature. This would be accomplished after the Resurrection and confirmed by the questioning of Christ as to whether he loved Him and the prophesied death for Christ that he would have to endure in the future ( John 21:18).
Judas Iscariot was only sorry for the consequences of what he did and still only saw Christ as the world did; a good man. Satan had held him for years with his greed and of course he betrayed Christ for a pittance: 30 pieces of silver. This suicidal mindset was probably a result of Satan's hypnotic pull suddenly ending; perhaps when whatever human conscience he had finally recovered. There was never any recognition given of Christ's Holiness nor was Judas ever rebuked by Him as Peter often was and no doubt everyone else. He "rebukes all those He loves" ( Rev. 3:19). Even though the other disciples ran away they still stayed from afar to witness what was happening. Judas couldn't face that. It is tragic that he could get to see the Resurrection 3 days later. He only faced an end to all meaningful existence in his mind; not realizing that he then should have sought repentance and a right standing with God. It is the sin nature which is the root cause; and we need to be Born Again to put our old self to death.
Galatians 5:4 discusses "falling from grace" in terms of attempting to follow the law again and whoever breaks it is accursed; where anyone who breaks the law even in one area according to James 2:10 breaks it all. Falling from grace would mean once trusting in grace then going back to the law; hence never really having a salvation experience where we are enlightened to grace being needed and our own helpless ability to follow the Lord. (see Romans 8:5-8).
This chapter; and the following are part of a private discourse between Christ and the 12 Disciples and demonstrate what has been prophesied in both veiled and now clear language as to what would happen to Christ; who whould betray Him; and once again God's inseparable relation to Christ when He is glorified as well as His elect (or chosen as stated in verse 18).
It is clear that Judas Iscariot was also called AND chosen for the evil betrayal; which was prophesied in Psalm 41:9. This verse ALSO shows how Judas was a "close friend who He trusted". There was pain because of the betrayal for this reason despite the inevitability of it Jesus gave him the sop which was traditionally given to a guest of honor. (Verse 26). This is why we cannot make election or predestination a mere intellectual concept. If Christ could love someone who was to be the "son of perdition" ( John 17:2) then who are we to not love our enemies; and pray for those who despitefully use us? ( Matt. 5:44).
We also need to see how Jesus loved His own unto the end (verse 1). Jesus surely had other things that could preoccupy Him after the Passover meal. Instead; He decided to reassure His disciples who still didn't get much of what He was saying. Verse 36 was the first hint that Peter would be restored after his fall into denial of Christ. He would die eventually and be with Christ. Here; he showed how being a servant was paramount in being a Godly example.
This was the culmination of what He had been saying for the last few years; and in a a few short days it would finally be clear to the Disciples what these concepts meant. Since all but one of the 12 would be martyred eventually; they had to strip themselves of any self reliance and follow the Master's footsteps. Divine help through the Spirit for all these things would soon arrive at Pentecost.
The medical term is called " hematohidrosis " extreme levels of stress, can cause it. " There are multiple blood veins netted around the sweat glands, in net formation, that constrict under the pressure of great stress" "fear and intense mental contemplation are the most frequent causes" recorded under National Library of Medicine, .gov
It can & did occur. Luke 22:44, "sweat as it were great drops of blood"
Let's look into Jesus' stress._._ he had known people were plotting to kill him, Matthew 17:22-23, Matthew 21:38, Mark 9:31, Luke 20:14, Luke 22:2, Jesus knew it was the religious hypocrites that were plotting instead of teaching the sheep (his beloved sheep) John 8:37, John 7:1,19,20 even calling him opposite of Christ, John 10:19,20,
Mark 10:34, here: Jesus even knew how & explained it. Isaiah 52, Psalms 22,
He knew he would be on public display, clothing taken from him, they would gamble for them: Psalms 22:18,19
Jesus knew he was being betrayed & even said go quickly, John 13:27,
Jesus knew the followers would scatter, anyone who loves those who depend on them in anyway never wishes to leave them, especially unprepared, afraid, in danger, alone, being pursued, John 17, John 10:11,12, Luke 12:4, Matthew 24:9,
Those are only some of the details. Extreme stress none of us have faced to that level. Hebrews 4:15,
Hopefully these are helpful to your discussion/ debate / controversy. 2Timothy 3:16,
In the discourse to Nicodemus; the Godhead is once again refered to as "we" in v. 11. The famous John 3:16 has been used to raise an apparent contradiction. The "whosoever" has been considered the elect according to some. We should also keep in mind that we ALL were a part of the world before we were saved. Therefore; that shows our limit to the scope of time and space to the specifics of when we went from death to life. We should also bear in mind that there is a process involved where the Spirit convicts of sin; righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8). Repentance is also said to be something granted by God ( Acts 5:31; etal). Our own consciousness even in a darkened state can recognize consequences for sin and fear judgment
but until we see the light and undergo a heart change we won't want to be reproved (v. 20). (also see Ezekiel 11:19). After we are saved; there must be good works and continuing sanctification as v. 21 alludes to. Therefore; there is transformation occurring before we understand and make a verbal confession; and it continues throughout our lives.
The last part of the passage from verse 22 on show Johns discoursse; once again highlighting election. Verse 27 states that a man cannot recieve anything unless it be "given him from heaven". This theme is repeated in v. 31 and 32 that with earthly uderstanding no man receiveth his testimony (v. 32). Verse 33 seems to show to some extent how a believer is sealed as is shown in Ephesians 1:13-14 (I could use further clarification of that). Nonetheless; v. 36 again shows that someone who believes "on the Son" has everlasting life; and the contrary for those who don't including God's wrath.
The end of this passage is given more detail in other scriptures; including John. We must not only believe; but do as He says; for those who love Him will keep His commandments ( John 14:15). This makes love for one another paramount ( John 13:34)
James, brother in Faith of Jesus Christ our Savior
John 13:34,35, Matthew 22:39, we all are to love one another
James 1:27, 2Timothy 2:24, Catholic have hospitals for wounded, known for helping widows & orphans, yet we all should be humbly teachable
Matthew 25:31-46,
Romans 14:4, GOD will judge ultimately, Romans 14:12,
These scriptures alert me: Jeremiah 7:18, Jeremiah 44:17-30 not to worship Queen of heaven, not to give offering either,
Matthew 23:9, call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father which is in heaven. Matthew 23, please read whole chapter, it actually corrects several Christian churches & leadership titles.
John 14:6, Acts 4:10-12,
1Timothy 4:1-3, false to teach forbidding to marry, 1Corinthians 7:28, 1Corinthians 7:2-6, by leaving these out of teaching & allowing into ministry, only the supposed abstainer may have perpetrated the horrible stain in that part of the Church today.
Jesus says in John 15:1-2 "my Father is the husbandman." Vine dresser"
This emphasizes fruit barring is a work of the Holyspirirt, not of you.
Let's consider that for a moment, FRUIT IS NOT GIFTS AND IT'S NOT SERVING AND IT'S NOT BY COMMAND.
So, when we come across these scriptures John 13:34-35. Mattthew 7:20. 1 John 2:11. 1 John 4:20. these are the marks of a Christian and is the ONLY way they are identified! And if you cannot be Identified by this you have John 15:6 to deal with.
Your faithfulness, intelligence, commitment, being noble, teaching, serving is all good but you're not identified as a Christian by none of these and can be told I "NEVER" knew you! Matthew 7:22-23.
Let's be clear on the recipient of this love that validates our position.
We are to love everyone, but our validation is specifically towards the Brothern.
The passages in 1 John speaks expressly about HATING you Brother.
God is truth, God is light, and God is Love. We are to worship God in truth and in Spirit. When the truth is spoken it shines light on darkness, and those in darkness hates the light and they will hate you!
HUMILITY.
Another fruit with great virtue. Woks of the law couldn't bring this either. It brought pride!
Being connect to the genuine vine brings humility. Look at what the Lord tells the Pharisees in Matthew 21:33-44. Right away you see the contrast of the two vines. Israel was to be a vine, but they became a degenerate vine. Jeremiah 2:9.
Now, place your attention on vs 43. Therefore, say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The Church) Peter calls the Church a Holy nation in 1 Peter 2:9.
Humility cast out pride doesn't it. We tend to want to place our spirituality on things we do, putting ourselves on display and pointing people towards us instead of Christ.
The power of the Holyspirit displayed in Peter "After" conversion!
If we revisit Luke 22:32 "WHEN THOU ART CONVERTED, strengthen thy brethren" Wow! by now you would have thought he was already converted by just going through the motion of just following Jesus. No! An outward expression means nothing unless there's an inward cleansing. You see an example of this in Matthew 23:26 when the Lord rebuked the Pharisees.
But let's look at the difference in Peter after his conversion. We know by the Gospels Peter and the Desciples denied the Lord, fearing death. In John 21:18-19 the Lord tells Peter by which death he should glorify God, then he tells Peter "Follow me" This reminds us of John 13:36-37.
After Peters conversion and when he was strengthened by the Holyspirit Peter preached boldly whilst knowing his fate.
2 Peter 1:14. Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
This ought to be humbling! All you do should be to the Glory of God. When we're born again everything you have or do is supplied by the Holyspirit, Not of yourselves. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:7-9
If you don't Love your brother it is because you can't! And you can't because God is not in you!!
God says He resists the proud, but He is always on the side of the humble. "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; pride and arrogance and the evil way and the perverse mouth I hate" Proverbs 8:13.
John tells us that "the pride of life-is not of the Father but is of the world" ( 1 John 2:16). Where does the pride of life come from? If there is anything that comes from the devil, that is it.
Even our salvation should spoken of with humility, It is something about which to glorify God. It should humble you being you had no part in it.
Paul writes, "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus" Philippians 2:5.
What kind of mind did He have? Lowliness of mind. He said, "Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle meek] and lowly in heart. Matthew 11:29.
Pride is destroying the testimony of many Christians and has made them ineffective for God. They go in for show and draw people after themselves but they are building nothing more than wood hay and stubble.
Jesus tought a lesson in Humility in John 13:8-15. ( Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.)
Matthew 23:11-12. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:25-26.
There is an interesting contrast when you look at the Greek words for "love" used in John 21:15-17. When Jesus asked Peter, "Do you love me?" in John 21:15-16, He used the Greek word "agape," this Love us immeasurable, it means to be totally given in to! Only the Holyspirit can produce this.
Both times, Peter responded with "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you," using the Greek word phileo, which refers more to a brotherly/friendship type of love.
The third time Jesus asks, "Do you love me?" in John 21:17, He uses the word phileo! The Lord reduced the measure of love to peters and our capability.
Notice Peters reaction "Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, "phileo" thou me?"
The Lord knew Peter couldn't Agape him because the Holyspirit wasn't given to them yet.
I believe he was tasking Peter pointing him back to what he thought he could do on his own strength in Matthew 26:31-35.
It do well to note all the disciples thought they would be willing to die with Christ.
The Lord forewarned Peter in
Luke 22:31-32. And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
In the John account we see two interesting things right before the bold statement from Peter and the disciples,
First
John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. Later they showed this was a command they couldn't do on their own.
Second.
The commandment wasn't given until after Judas departed.
John 13:26-30.
All these scriptures suggests all our service we do don't even begin until after the New birth through baptism of the Holyspirit.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13.
I gave a recent post on the old man being crucified with Christ and given life being quickened by the Spirit. In other words, being baptized into Christ death and resurrection. Romans 6:3-4. Romans 8:8-13,
Paul gives gave these verses as a rebuttal to anyone having the old nature having dominion over them.
Here are some highly ignored verses and is whereby we "know! whether God spirit is in us or not. And is what should be a great concern!
A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:34-35.
He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11.
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us.
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. 1 John 4:16-21.
Now "if" we have been baptized in Christ, we have the love of God in us to love one another.
In my mind, this becomes a salvation based on human effort to please God, rather than a believer's spirit & Will secured & resting in God's Salvation & living the Christian life (with its ups & downs) in the power of the Spirit. And it is the Holy Spirit that secures & nourishes the believer to remain faithful & true to the One Who has purchased him and not our efforts to ensure our salvation is secure.
What the apostles did by warning the Churches was to alert them to false teaching & if they were truly saved, to avoid the disciplining of the Lord, which He gives to all whom He loves. Just thought to add my belief to further define the life of a truly saved believer & God's continual work in him, ensuring nothing separates him "from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord". Blessings to you brother.
Even if I use a personal example: when have I strayed into some sin & not felt the gentle tug of the Spirit - when have I persisted in that sin & not been drawn into deep conviction & sorrow for grieving the Lord Whom I love? Can I ever see myself being so drawn away, that I am willing to give up Christ for the World? Never. God's Spirit will persist with me, bearing upon my self-will & obstinacy, to restore me back to the Father. At least that's been my experience, & I perceive what Jesus spoke concerning the eternal security of those whom the Lord has secured ( John 6:39; John 10:27,28). But if I sense no conviction & a life of sin is more preferable, I would readily admit that I wasn't even saved - at least not saved by God, but saved by my reckoning.
Then in contrast & what perplexes me: if I would believe that my salvation could be lost due to gross sin or leaving the faith, that would mean that I would never know in the present, that I'm truly saved & accepted. Why? Because of the real possibility that I could become unsaved. Then what should I do to return back to the Lord & re-gain His Holy Spirit? Obviously, to repent of my sin & cleave to Him, as I did at the first. But would that be enough, since I would never know the intensity of the sin that separated me from God, to the measure of righteousness that would please Him & send His Spirit back to me. Then how much could I obey Him & earnestly follow Him to ensure my salvation? Or maybe, to hold such a belief means that only in that Day of Judgement will a Christian know whether he has believed enough, done enough, repented enough, to be accepted by God?
Thanks again brother for your response. Actually, I see that my understanding of who are blood-bought, Spirit-filled believers & followers of Christ are not always the same as another's understanding. Maybe, my view is too restrictive, too narrow; but I feel compelled to hold this view considering what Jesus & the apostles described of one who is genuine & a true believer. As well, I try my best to avoid making judgement on the spiritual condition of others who profess belief in Christ - I simply don't have that authority or the ability to discern a heart's condition. If I have to deal with struggles within myself, I certainly would not be in a position to discern where a person is at before the Lord. Therefore, in the Church, there can not only be false teachers (as we've already discussed & seen in the epistles), but also false Christians (i.e. amongst the laity & Church leadership). Just because a 'Christian' appearance is seen by man, doesn't mean that this reflects the condition of the heart before God. And yet, we must accept one another as those in Christ, & encourage one another in our walk of faith.
So, if we understand that a true believer is one who is saved through Christ's Sacrifice & has the Holy Spirit in residence, becoming God's blood-bought child, what would it take for God to allow such a child to increasingly become wayward, returning back to his old sinful life, & be lost into Satan's clutches? I not only see that God would not permit it (as His Spirit cannot be willy-nilly given & taken away making God's deep work in the heart a farce), but also He immediately lovingly applies intervention to alert & restore the wayward one.
I've read your answers and I see how you understand some scriptures and since it seems that we see things differently, I will make a summary of what we agree with and of what we disagree.
It seems that we agree that a man who was saved by God's grace may sometimes, for his own (bad) reasons, change course and return to his original sinful life with all those consequences that accompany such an action. One may as well stay in the church but live in a sinful condition, that is he doesn't want to correct some things he does wrongly.
God uses any way His wisdom chooses to bring that child of His back, often by permitting hard situations to go through one's life or even permits satan to "distruct" them to a specific extend, or even He Himself "punishes" His children for a good purpose.
And it is here where our disagreement begins from, if I get it right. In my opinion you don't consider that God is powerless in front of some situations, He is actually powerless in front of man's free will, He can not violate it, He can not force people to do something they don't want to do. He works in many different ways, He makes all sort of efforts, He uses any possible way, to make people repent and return back even in the last minute of their lives. But those efforts do not always succeed not because God is not capable of but because man does not cooperate with Him, does not obey, does not repent, keeps his heart hard as stone.
God's will is that all people get saved, but not all will be saved. His Will stops infront of man's will. This is what His righteouness says to Him. There is always a condition for people to get and keep salvation. Their cooperation with God
Your belief is that finally God always succeeds in His efforts to bring His children back into repentance. But I think that there are many examples in both NT and OT that show us (in my opinion) that the opposite may sometimes happen.
Anyway, thanks for your response and the conversation we are having.
GBU
Does Satan have the authority to take away life? I believe that only God gives & takes away life. In Satan's domain (i.e. outside the Church to which a sinning believer might be sent), pain & destruction may well be the physical demise of the believer, to the end that his "spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus".
Re: "untimely death". I mean that a life was shortened because of God's action against sin. We see this in many instances in the OT & NT, & especially that we have already mentioned Ananias & Sapphira ( Acts 5); 1 Corinthians 11:27-30; Acts 12:21-23.
Re: Hebrews 10:26,27 & we can add, Hebrews 6:4-6 as well; these verses have been discussed previously by bro Jesse & myself & too long to deal with here.
Re: Acts 21:20. All I can see from this limited detail, is that the Church (the Jewish component), hadn't properly dealt with the separation of the Law & the liberty they ought to have enjoyed in Christ. Much like today, when those coming out of other religions or cults, might take a long time to understand & resolve matters that have been indoctrinated deep into their minds. The fact that the Jerusalem council seemed to understand & accept this matter didn't warrant them to address it. However, Paul always did & was taken to task for doing so.
I hope I've addressed the points you raised, brother. I know we will see these things differently, but I hope you can also see how I understand it: the Lord knows His children & they have been brought into His family by His indwelling Spirit. Does God make an error in doing so? Or, are His children secure in Him & when they err, His correction done in love, will always bring us back into fellowship. If it doesn't do so, then, speaking personally, I would have to question my salvation, that it was merely a mental or emotional assent given, without a true change in heart & spirit. And that's the only way I can understand some of these difficult, apparently contentious, Scriptures. Every blessing.
b. I note your understanding of the two Greek words in question, that there is no significant difference between them. But why I earlier suggested that "fail" indicates 'falling short', is because of the earlier verses 5-11, indicating that believers who err, must be recipients of God's Chastisement - if not, those believers are imposters (illegitimate). So why then do we read verses 12-15, speaking about their learning from God's Discipline, to follow peace with all men, & holiness of life, and having careful introspection (episkopeo)? That they might not 'fail' (fall short) of God's Grace. If we apply 'failing God's Grace' to 'loss of salvation', then God's Discipline seems unnecessary, as that would provide no correction to bring one back to holy living. But to the true believer, God's Discipline must bring about the desired results, because if it didn't, then we would be illegitimate, even as Esau relinquished his birthright & was rejected.
c. Re: the prodigal son parable. I think that the point of the story was that a son wanted to go out on his own, fell into hard times, came to his senses, & was joyfully received back by his father. I don't see any reference here to "God's punishment to cause a change of course & come back". It is as you say, 'the son's decision' to return & he was welcomed home, just as a wayward believer would, returning back setting his eyes only on God. No chastisement or punishment here, as this parable wasn't suggesting that. But we do read of God's disciplining in Hebrews 12. How that takes place can be different to each one of us: whether the gentle urging of the Holy Spirit, a stern message from the pulpit, sickness, even death (as was for Ananias & Sapphira). The point is, that a believer will receive the Word from the Lord in some way & will be corrected. Why? Because he is a blood-bought child of a loving God, even as a loving earthly father would never reject his child but first offer correction & restoration.
Thank you bro Giannis for your lengthy reply - & I trust you had a profitable time away. I'll try to deal with the points you raised.
a. Agreed, Galatians is written to believers & in Galatians 5:1, we read of Paul's urgent warning to stand fast in the liberty given by Christ & not be swayed by others to become entangled into legalistic bondage (the Law/circumcision). And so Paul lays out the Truth to these who may be considering/drifting towards this false teaching: 'if your justification comes by obedience to the Law, then God's Grace (salvation) would no longer be yours.' I see this as a warning towards a principal: 'Law & Grace don't mix, so stand fast in Christ's liberty.' Hopefully, those erring Galatians would heed Paul's teaching rather than the false ones, & hold onto the Truth.
But your question would be, 'what about those who don't heed it, won't they fall from God's Grace?' I agree that they would, but did anyone from their midst, come to this sad state of losing their salvation? Or was it simply Paul's warning to the Church about this false doctrine, that righteousness doesn't come by obedience to the Law, therefore don't be fooled by this teaching. And to add, Paul says in verse 10, "I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be." I guess, it depends how one wants to view this passage in Galatians: as a warning against false teachers or as a teaching that salvation can be lost.
Hello Chris. Sorry for my delayed answer but I just managed to get back to you.
a. Paul's letter to Galatians is not addressed to unbelievers but to the church, the saved saints of Galatia. What happened there? Some christians from other places who were Jews came to Galatia and tought people there that they can not be saved by the grace of Jesus only, but through Moses' law as well. Those people that were drifted towards such teaching were not unbelievers but were members of the local church, saved people that is. In verse 5:4 Paul tells them "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.". So one who is saved if he changes course and seeks salvation through works (Mosaic Law) then he looses God's grace, which grace in this case means salvation. Why? Because He seeks ijustification through works and not Jesus' Blood. As you write the greek word "ekpipto" is used, translated as "fallen", which is accurate enough
b. Paul's letter to Hebrews is also addressed to believers. What Paul says is that if somebody has a root of bitterness in his heart, and does nothing about it, and keeps being in an unforgivable situation, then he lacks in God's grace. Why? Because he doesn't repent and stays in his sin. The greek "hystero" is translated as "fail" which is not the same but doesn't make any significant difference. Hystero means "lack in", "left behnd", the word Hysterisis in Physics comes from this word. What Paul means is that if a believer stays in a state that he doesn't want to repent or doesn't make any efford to correct his sin, then God's grace is not upon him. Paul uses Esau as an example for somebody who doesn't repent for his sin but still wants to get the blessing, and that can not be possible. The same happens for fornicators and profane persons. Pay attention Paul doesn't talk to unbelievers, there is no point for that, those have to come to faith to be saved. He talks to believers
to be cont...
c. It is not God who punishes people to make them change course and come back. In the story of the prodigal son, the father didn't go after his son to bring him back. It was the hard times that the son lived through, outside his father's protection, that made him decide to go back. Once a person is outside God's protection, satan is incharge. Paul says to Corinthians about that believer who was living wth his father's wife. 1 Cor 5:5 "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." How come satan has the authority to destruct a believer? Because he lives in an unforgivable sin. Will that person eventually repent and return? Maybe yes, maybe no. In our lives we have seen many cases that prodigal sons never come back, and this is a reality. Judas never came back, Demas never came back, neither did Ananias and Sapphira did.
Often the parable of the shepherd and the lost sheep is used to justify the belief of a secured salvation, but in this case the sheep got lost, was confused, lost his vision and his way, so Jesus looked for it and brought it back. But in the parable of the prodigal son, the son didn't loose his way, wasn't confused, wasn't lost somehow, but he freely decided to go away from his house and live his sinful life spending his father's fortune. In this case father never went after him but waited for his son in the house, if he finally did come back.
d. What do you mean with "an untimely death will follow if warnings are not heeded". Doesn't this mean that he died in his sin and was eventually lost? Weren't those Jews that disobeyed Mose's Law went to hell, like all those that didn't make it in the promised land because they believed in the spies' stories? And so many other examples in OT.
to be cont...
Chris
Well it really gets long, I hope I don't tire you.
Please read Ezekiel 18:24. "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die." Since one's righteousness will not be mentioned, and he will die in his sin, what should I therefore conclude? That he is going to hell, isn't it so?
Hebrews 10:26-27 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."
In the above Paul doesn't talk about unbelievers, for those salvation is always available even if they once rejected it. Paul talks about people who were once in faith but later lost their faith and believed that Jesus' sacrifice and Blood were nothing really.
So brother my belief is that if ones turns away from God, and despite God's efforts to make him repent, he dies in his sin then he will not enter Heaven but hell.
Now I want to ask you a question. We agree that if somebody seeks salvation not only through Jesus' sacrifice, but through works, then he is not granted salvation. So what do you make of those Jews that believed to Jesus but still obeyed the Law of Moses. James said to Paul in Acts 21:20 "And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:". Those thousands of Jews were saved, weren't they? But how come since they were zealous of the law?
I don't mean to be offensive even if sometimes it seems so. If we don't agree it is OK, we actually know what we both believe but we try to get to a possible agreement
God Blessings
Great parallel verses and if that expression of humility and service can come from the Lord we should have no problem serving one another.
John 13:12-17 So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them.
God Bless
I seem to see a difference here: one where salvation is never possessed because of trusting in the Law, and the other, where salvation is undermined, not enjoying the fullness of God's Grace, receiving chastisement. The Hebrews writer goes on to write about Esau (v16) who relinquished his birthright (akin to a sinner rejecting God's Offer of salvation meant to be received & enjoyed by all, having lost all hope). He then introduces Moses ("him that spake on Earth" v25): if the Israelite disobeyed Moses' warnings, punishment of death ensued. And then to Jesus, the Mediator of the New Covenant (v24): how much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him.
In all these warnings, chastisement of the believer is God's Rod to bring the erring child back into line. But as those who refused to obey Moses under the Law & those who turn away from obeying Jesus under Grace, an untimely death will follow if warnings are not heeded. Some see the "shall we not escape" (v25), indicating that salvation would be lost if we turn away from Christ (as in Esau's rejection), but my question: is the matter of salvation spoken of here, or, the matter of death (as those so judged under Moses)? Does the believer lose his salvation or is he first chastised, even to loss of life, if he refuses to listen (he turns away - his ears/heart) from Jesus? An interesting passage; trying to marry up all the verses associated with it from verses 5 to 25.
A few thought about what you have written...
Hebrews 12:15-17
"15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it (the blessing) carefully with tears."
Can one fall of the grace of God? One case is the above. Verse 15 says because of a root of bitterness in a believers heart this can happen.
In verse 16,17 a person that is a fornicator or a profane person can not inherit the blessing(salvation). How come? Isn't the grace and forgiveness of God available to all people? Yes but under the condition of repentance (and not only). If one chooses to not repent for sins he does, even if that person is a believer, then the grace of God is not available to him, like Judas. If one chooses to leave God's way and get back to his original sinful life then the grace of God is not available to him, like Demas. There is always a condition so that the grace and forgiveness of God is available to people. And this is called Repentance. Believers who eventually leave this world in their unforgiven sins do not enter Heaven.
Judas most possibly didn't repent for Jesus' betrayal, and even if he actually did repent he didn't proceed with asking God's grace and forgiveness. Repentance is not enough, if not asking God to forgive and not asking for Jesus' Blood. Wordly people often repent for things they do but they are not forgiven by God because they don't ask for forgiveness and the Blood of Jesus. The 5 unwise virgins (virgin means believer) were not allowed into the Marriage because they ended up in darkness, not having light in their lamps. The light represants a pure life. Darkness represants a life with sins.
GBU
Becoming as little children, learning as we go?
Your insight of Judas heart after He betrayed Christ, had become the unforgivable sin. It was true also of Simon his father who did not recognize the Savior. The "Hypnotic pull" you refer too, is the Power for his Father followed with the money for His Son!
Knowing the word as you do and backing it up with its verses, is a complete use and application of the word of God.
Judas did not follow Christ after his denial, as the others did. The desciples watched and followed
Judas did not believe, nor as you say was baptised, this spiritual condition would be his demise, as He threw himself off a cliff!
Thank you for sharing!
This is illustrated with Peter who clearly knew Christ; but he in a sense had to be "converted" ( Luke 22:32) from the mindset of his old nature. This would be accomplished after the Resurrection and confirmed by the questioning of Christ as to whether he loved Him and the prophesied death for Christ that he would have to endure in the future ( John 21:18).
Judas Iscariot was only sorry for the consequences of what he did and still only saw Christ as the world did; a good man. Satan had held him for years with his greed and of course he betrayed Christ for a pittance: 30 pieces of silver. This suicidal mindset was probably a result of Satan's hypnotic pull suddenly ending; perhaps when whatever human conscience he had finally recovered. There was never any recognition given of Christ's Holiness nor was Judas ever rebuked by Him as Peter often was and no doubt everyone else. He "rebukes all those He loves" ( Rev. 3:19). Even though the other disciples ran away they still stayed from afar to witness what was happening. Judas couldn't face that. It is tragic that he could get to see the Resurrection 3 days later. He only faced an end to all meaningful existence in his mind; not realizing that he then should have sought repentance and a right standing with God. It is the sin nature which is the root cause; and we need to be Born Again to put our old self to death.
Galatians 5:4 discusses "falling from grace" in terms of attempting to follow the law again and whoever breaks it is accursed; where anyone who breaks the law even in one area according to James 2:10 breaks it all. Falling from grace would mean once trusting in grace then going back to the law; hence never really having a salvation experience where we are enlightened to grace being needed and our own helpless ability to follow the Lord. (see Romans 8:5-8).
Consequently, without time or space, a moment in time ,if you will, without fear, who walk in the same paths of those that do and will love Him.
A pure condition that only looks too Him.
Even with the questions as the apostles had, we follow Him, waiting to see His next miracle, that will happen.
Are we like the apostles that are waiting and watching!?
Beholding the truths of His word?
How this one, Judas could not see, is an example of brothers whom I've known who have fallen by the wayside! Including myself!
Is falling from grace the same as Satan entering into the soul. What would it take to change our mind? Money?
These things we may soon find out!
Living in a time, this evil one waiting once again to control us.
Being a follower of Christ is, and will be the constant subject of interference in our relationship to our Father.
Is falling from grace the same as denial?
I think not, if it were, than Judas would not have tried giving back the money!
If I am wrong, please show me why.
This chapter; and the following are part of a private discourse between Christ and the 12 Disciples and demonstrate what has been prophesied in both veiled and now clear language as to what would happen to Christ; who whould betray Him; and once again God's inseparable relation to Christ when He is glorified as well as His elect (or chosen as stated in verse 18).
It is clear that Judas Iscariot was also called AND chosen for the evil betrayal; which was prophesied in Psalm 41:9. This verse ALSO shows how Judas was a "close friend who He trusted". There was pain because of the betrayal for this reason despite the inevitability of it Jesus gave him the sop which was traditionally given to a guest of honor. (Verse 26). This is why we cannot make election or predestination a mere intellectual concept. If Christ could love someone who was to be the "son of perdition" ( John 17:2) then who are we to not love our enemies; and pray for those who despitefully use us? ( Matt. 5:44).
We also need to see how Jesus loved His own unto the end (verse 1). Jesus surely had other things that could preoccupy Him after the Passover meal. Instead; He decided to reassure His disciples who still didn't get much of what He was saying. Verse 36 was the first hint that Peter would be restored after his fall into denial of Christ. He would die eventually and be with Christ. Here; he showed how being a servant was paramount in being a Godly example.
This was the culmination of what He had been saying for the last few years; and in a a few short days it would finally be clear to the Disciples what these concepts meant. Since all but one of the 12 would be martyred eventually; they had to strip themselves of any self reliance and follow the Master's footsteps. Divine help through the Spirit for all these things would soon arrive at Pentecost.
It can & did occur. Luke 22:44, "sweat as it were great drops of blood"
Let's look into Jesus' stress._._ he had known people were plotting to kill him, Matthew 17:22-23, Matthew 21:38, Mark 9:31, Luke 20:14, Luke 22:2, Jesus knew it was the religious hypocrites that were plotting instead of teaching the sheep (his beloved sheep) John 8:37, John 7:1,19,20 even calling him opposite of Christ, John 10:19,20,
Mark 10:34, here: Jesus even knew how & explained it. Isaiah 52, Psalms 22,
He knew he would be on public display, clothing taken from him, they would gamble for them: Psalms 22:18,19
Jesus knew he was being betrayed & even said go quickly, John 13:27,
Jesus knew the followers would scatter, anyone who loves those who depend on them in anyway never wishes to leave them, especially unprepared, afraid, in danger, alone, being pursued, John 17, John 10:11,12, Luke 12:4, Matthew 24:9,
Those are only some of the details. Extreme stress none of us have faced to that level. Hebrews 4:15,
Hopefully these are helpful to your discussion/ debate / controversy. 2Timothy 3:16,
In the discourse to Nicodemus; the Godhead is once again refered to as "we" in v. 11. The famous John 3:16 has been used to raise an apparent contradiction. The "whosoever" has been considered the elect according to some. We should also keep in mind that we ALL were a part of the world before we were saved. Therefore; that shows our limit to the scope of time and space to the specifics of when we went from death to life. We should also bear in mind that there is a process involved where the Spirit convicts of sin; righteousness and judgment to come ( John 16:8). Repentance is also said to be something granted by God ( Acts 5:31; etal). Our own consciousness even in a darkened state can recognize consequences for sin and fear judgment
but until we see the light and undergo a heart change we won't want to be reproved (v. 20). (also see Ezekiel 11:19). After we are saved; there must be good works and continuing sanctification as v. 21 alludes to. Therefore; there is transformation occurring before we understand and make a verbal confession; and it continues throughout our lives.
The last part of the passage from verse 22 on show Johns discoursse; once again highlighting election. Verse 27 states that a man cannot recieve anything unless it be "given him from heaven". This theme is repeated in v. 31 and 32 that with earthly uderstanding no man receiveth his testimony (v. 32). Verse 33 seems to show to some extent how a believer is sealed as is shown in Ephesians 1:13-14 (I could use further clarification of that). Nonetheless; v. 36 again shows that someone who believes "on the Son" has everlasting life; and the contrary for those who don't including God's wrath.
The end of this passage is given more detail in other scriptures; including John. We must not only believe; but do as He says; for those who love Him will keep His commandments ( John 14:15). This makes love for one another paramount ( John 13:34)
Numbers 16:5,
Matthew 20:16, Matthew 22:14,
John 6:70, John 13:18, Acts 1:2,
Hopefully these are helpful
John 13:34,35, Matthew 22:39, we all are to love one another
James 1:27, 2Timothy 2:24, Catholic have hospitals for wounded, known for helping widows & orphans, yet we all should be humbly teachable
Matthew 25:31-46,
Romans 14:4, GOD will judge ultimately, Romans 14:12,
These scriptures alert me: Jeremiah 7:18, Jeremiah 44:17-30 not to worship Queen of heaven, not to give offering either,
Matthew 23:9, call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father which is in heaven. Matthew 23, please read whole chapter, it actually corrects several Christian churches & leadership titles.
John 14:6, Acts 4:10-12,
1Timothy 4:1-3, false to teach forbidding to marry, 1Corinthians 7:28, 1Corinthians 7:2-6, by leaving these out of teaching & allowing into ministry, only the supposed abstainer may have perpetrated the horrible stain in that part of the Church today.
Hopefully these are helpful in this discussion
Jesus says in John 15:1-2 "my Father is the husbandman." Vine dresser"
This emphasizes fruit barring is a work of the Holyspirirt, not of you.
Let's consider that for a moment, FRUIT IS NOT GIFTS AND IT'S NOT SERVING AND IT'S NOT BY COMMAND.
So, when we come across these scriptures John 13:34-35. Mattthew 7:20. 1 John 2:11. 1 John 4:20. these are the marks of a Christian and is the ONLY way they are identified! And if you cannot be Identified by this you have John 15:6 to deal with.
Your faithfulness, intelligence, commitment, being noble, teaching, serving is all good but you're not identified as a Christian by none of these and can be told I "NEVER" knew you! Matthew 7:22-23.
Let's be clear on the recipient of this love that validates our position.
We are to love everyone, but our validation is specifically towards the Brothern.
The passages in 1 John speaks expressly about HATING you Brother.
God is truth, God is light, and God is Love. We are to worship God in truth and in Spirit. When the truth is spoken it shines light on darkness, and those in darkness hates the light and they will hate you!
HUMILITY.
Another fruit with great virtue. Woks of the law couldn't bring this either. It brought pride!
Being connect to the genuine vine brings humility. Look at what the Lord tells the Pharisees in Matthew 21:33-44. Right away you see the contrast of the two vines. Israel was to be a vine, but they became a degenerate vine. Jeremiah 2:9.
Now, place your attention on vs 43. Therefore, say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The Church) Peter calls the Church a Holy nation in 1 Peter 2:9.
Humility cast out pride doesn't it. We tend to want to place our spirituality on things we do, putting ourselves on display and pointing people towards us instead of Christ.
more to come.
Its Christ faith were saved by not ours!
See part 9.
The power of the Holyspirit displayed in Peter "After" conversion!
If we revisit Luke 22:32 "WHEN THOU ART CONVERTED, strengthen thy brethren" Wow! by now you would have thought he was already converted by just going through the motion of just following Jesus. No! An outward expression means nothing unless there's an inward cleansing. You see an example of this in Matthew 23:26 when the Lord rebuked the Pharisees.
But let's look at the difference in Peter after his conversion. We know by the Gospels Peter and the Desciples denied the Lord, fearing death. In John 21:18-19 the Lord tells Peter by which death he should glorify God, then he tells Peter "Follow me" This reminds us of John 13:36-37.
After Peters conversion and when he was strengthened by the Holyspirit Peter preached boldly whilst knowing his fate.
2 Peter 1:14. Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
This ought to be humbling! All you do should be to the Glory of God. When we're born again everything you have or do is supplied by the Holyspirit, Not of yourselves. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Romans 8:7-9
If you don't Love your brother it is because you can't! And you can't because God is not in you!!
More on the command to Love in part 6.
Humility is the opposite of pride.
God says He resists the proud, but He is always on the side of the humble. "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; pride and arrogance and the evil way and the perverse mouth I hate" Proverbs 8:13.
John tells us that "the pride of life-is not of the Father but is of the world" ( 1 John 2:16). Where does the pride of life come from? If there is anything that comes from the devil, that is it.
Even our salvation should spoken of with humility, It is something about which to glorify God. It should humble you being you had no part in it.
Paul writes, "Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus" Philippians 2:5.
What kind of mind did He have? Lowliness of mind. He said, "Take my yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle meek] and lowly in heart. Matthew 11:29.
Pride is destroying the testimony of many Christians and has made them ineffective for God. They go in for show and draw people after themselves but they are building nothing more than wood hay and stubble.
Jesus tought a lesson in Humility in John 13:8-15. ( Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.)
Matthew 23:11-12. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:25-26.
God bless.
There is an interesting contrast when you look at the Greek words for "love" used in John 21:15-17. When Jesus asked Peter, "Do you love me?" in John 21:15-16, He used the Greek word "agape," this Love us immeasurable, it means to be totally given in to! Only the Holyspirit can produce this.
Both times, Peter responded with "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you," using the Greek word phileo, which refers more to a brotherly/friendship type of love.
The third time Jesus asks, "Do you love me?" in John 21:17, He uses the word phileo! The Lord reduced the measure of love to peters and our capability.
Notice Peters reaction "Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, "phileo" thou me?"
The Lord knew Peter couldn't Agape him because the Holyspirit wasn't given to them yet.
I believe he was tasking Peter pointing him back to what he thought he could do on his own strength in Matthew 26:31-35.
It do well to note all the disciples thought they would be willing to die with Christ.
The Lord forewarned Peter in
Luke 22:31-32. And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
In the John account we see two interesting things right before the bold statement from Peter and the disciples,
First
John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. Later they showed this was a command they couldn't do on their own.
Second.
The commandment wasn't given until after Judas departed.
John 13:26-30.
All these scriptures suggests all our service we do don't even begin until after the New birth through baptism of the Holyspirit.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Philippians 2:13.
See Part 5.
God bless.
Here by we know.
A Child of God can and should examine themselves.
I gave a recent post on the old man being crucified with Christ and given life being quickened by the Spirit. In other words, being baptized into Christ death and resurrection. Romans 6:3-4. Romans 8:8-13,
Paul gives gave these verses as a rebuttal to anyone having the old nature having dominion over them.
Here are some highly ignored verses and is whereby we "know! whether God spirit is in us or not. And is what should be a great concern!
A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:34-35.
He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes. 1 John 2:9-11.
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us.
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. 1 John 4:16-21.
Now "if" we have been baptized in Christ, we have the love of God in us to love one another.
This is virtue by being in him and him in you.
see part 2.