Discuss John 12 Page 3

  • T Levis - In Reply on John 12 - 2 years ago
    The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof. 1Corinthians 10:26, Psalms 24:1, Psalms 89:11, Psalms 50:12, Ephesians 1:10, Daniel 2:20-22, Genesis 1:28, Luke 9:1, 1Corinthians 15:23-28, John 19:5-11

    Proverbs 29:2, Revelation 3:10,

    Matthew 28:18, Acts 1:8, Matthew 18:18, Mark 16:17-19
  • Chris - In Reply on John 12 - 2 years ago
    Yes Jeff, you can also look at John 14:30; John 16:11; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4; Ephesians 2:2.
  • Jeff Mooneyhan on John 12 - 2 years ago
    Is there a verse or verses that talks about Satan being the ruler of the world besides

    John 12:31?

    Thanks!
  • T Levis - In Reply on Matthew 28 - 2 years ago
    Johnnie,

    Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 19:1-12, Ephesians 4:5,

    I think the main point is the outward living life, dead to the flesh ( selfishness, bad actions, etc. ) resurrection in the last days, is the goal. Mark 10:38, Luke 12:50, Colossians 2:12-14, 1Peter 3:18-22,

    * Romans 6:3,4, please read all of Romans 6, chapter, Colossians 3:1-17,

    John 12:23-36, Romans 8:13, Luke 14:27-33,

    Hopefully these are helpful

    If you have trouble understanding pray for wisdom: James 1:5
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply on Isaiah 53 - 2 years ago
    Hey Patrick42

    My understanding is the arm of the LORD revealed was for Israel and Jesus came for the lost sheep of Israel Matt. 15:24 and fulfill the law and the prophets, Matt. 26:54.

    John 12:37-41 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

    Also, there is Matthew 8:14-17 Luke 22:35-38 Acts 8:26-35 Romans 10:11-21.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Richard H Priday - 2 years ago
    Predestination

    Whatever side of the whole issue one takes in regard to Predestination and free will; we all as Bible believers (unless Universalists)

    accept that some in the end are saved; and some are lost. We shall also assume that we are not of the camp that doesn't believe in a literal hell (which; by default should cause an issue with a literal heaven); and finally we will accept that eternity means eternity; not some annihilation.

    All would agree that there is a set number saved and lost in the end. Despite what may be assumed by some; there is still an impetus thrusting people out to proclaim the Gospel for "Arminians" and "Calvinists." In fact; looking at the history of Whitfield; for example and other reformers; as well as personal friends of mine who are all "Calvanists" it could be argued they are the majority of those evangelizing. The emphasis is on proclaiming the Good News and having the Spirit draw those forth who He will; rather than what some call "decisional regeneration." One could say that neither viewpoint or any in-between one in regrad to free will and predestination takes away for a true believer the infallibility of the entire text of 66 books of the Bible.

    What is most vital; therefore is to take the entire Word of God and consume it. If we try to pigeonhole anything to fit into our understanding of a doctrine and disregard those seemingly contradictory verses then we are doing violence to scripture. Revelation 22:18-19 is a dire warning against that book at least; it should stand also to other violations of scripture.

    Of course; if we are to start a Theocracy as some of the reformers did where men are forced to believe some tenet out of fear of man's punishment we are going against what we claim about God drawing all men to Himself ( John 12:32-33). The same thing can be said when peer or family pressure exists and/or someone is "culturally or born into" Christianity. When the Spirit prompts it IS time for decision.
  • Jesse - In Reply on John 12 - 2 years ago
    My apologies. I forgot to list the prophecies from Isaiah that were being fulfilled. They are: Isaiah 53:1, Isaiah 6:10, and Isaiah 6:1-8
  • Jesse - In Reply on John 12 - 2 years ago
    Jacinda,

    It doesn't seem so. Reading through John 12:37-43, this is the prophecy of Isaiah being fulfilled. It tells us that they could not believe because God had blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts. God did that to them. They were not His sheep. They had no response. So He blinded them so they could not come.

    Some of the leaders actually believed in Jesus Christ as Messiah. But because they knew the Pharisees took everyone that believed, and excommunicated them, they didn't confess Him.

    John 12:43 gives us the reason. Notice it doesn't say they love the praise of God, it says they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. They had a choice!
  • Jacinda early on John 12 - 2 years ago
    verse 43 did they ever turn away from they sin
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    What is a Lukewarm Christian?

    What does lukewarm looks like in a believer?

    What would cause a person to not know that he's lukewarm?

    They are lacking gold tried in the fire.

    They are naked lacking white raiment.

    And apparently don't know it. "and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see."

    The fining pot is for silver, and the furnace for gold: but the LORD trieth the hearts. Proverbs 17:3.

    Gold is purged of dross ( Isaiah 1:25), so by the refining fire of temptations the faithful are cleansed from pride and self-reliance and the pollutions of sin.

    When we are self-reliant, we are naked before the Lord.

    For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Hebrews 4:12-13. (I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear;

    Anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

    I believe this is blinded by pride, this reminds me of the Pharisees.

    Matthew 6:1-5.

    John 12:43. For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

    There is no conviction in a person who is self-sufficient. spreading the gospel is not on the top of their list. Walking in the spirit is only in the church building afterwards everything else is just a discussion forum or a round table or a competition where we compete for first place.

    The word of God is handled to loosely. If we have faith in the inerrancy of the word of God, we should display it cautiously.

    Don't do it as a hobby, it may not be your calling.

    Don't counseling on things you don't understand.

    The only barrier to truth is to think we already have it.
  • S Spencer - 2 years ago
    For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17.

    Often we speak of a revival, sometimes revival seems it is what the church needs rather than the nation. The nation is doing what nations do.

    The church is set apart and is to be light to ALL the world/nations.

    Here's what I observed, Some seems to minister to draw people to themselves.

    They are thinking they are that light and rightfully so. But what is you/light supposed to shine on? Who's in the midst of the candlesticks? Jesus!

    Today we see people "But not everyone" shine light upon themselves. ( Notice I didn't say "the light.)

    Is that an oil filled light?

    Can there be a revival in this way?

    I'm sure we can agree on this matter, The question is "DO I DO THIS?" We should ask ourselves.

    Here is also what we should ask ourselves.

    Does this glorify the Lord?

    Am I doing this by the Spirit of God or the lust of the flesh?

    Is it the Lords glory I am seeking?

    Is this moved by the Spirit?

    If Gods spirit resides in you you should know!

    Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

    And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. John 12:31-32.

    HOW DOES THE WORLD SEE US?

    Boy does this matter!

    Acts 2:44-47 ?

    John 13:35 ?

    Here is just a few things that would hender these 2 verses?

    Certainly Leaven and the tares plays a role.

    When the world look at us from the outside they see some of their own.

    Pride by the work of their own hands.

    Materialism.

    Racism.

    Ect.ect.

    We also get along worse than them considering we are supposed to be led by the Spirit.

    Jude 1:4

    Hebrews 5:12-14.

    2 Peter 2:10-15.

    This is why everything we do should be what is (caused) by the Holyspirit.

    Don't let pride keep you from your purpose and proper place.

    "Following Jesus and shining you light on Him!!

    Examine ourselves.

    God bless.
  • Gunilla brownfield on John 12 - 2 years ago
    In verse 42, had those Pharisees who loved the praise of men more than the praise of God truly been born again.
  • T Levis - In Reply on Leviticus 23 - 2 years ago
    Leviticus 23, goodly branch = large, considerable, pleasing in appearance

    interestingly you have symbolism here also

    Branch : Zechariah 3:8, Isaiah 11:1, John 15, Jeremiah 33:15,

    Prophetic : John 12, notice John 12:1, John 12:13,16, Hebrews 10, Colossians 2:16-17,

    Hopefully helpful
  • T Levis - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Jesus' prayers, a few; John 17, Matthew 6, Luke 11, Luke 23:33,34,46, John 12:28, John 14:13, John 14, Mark 1:35, Mark 14,

    Matthew 27:35, Mark 15:24, John 13:4-16, John 19:23,

    Hopefully these are helpful
  • T Levis - In Reply - 2 years ago
    1Thessalonians 4:16,17, gathered after the Great Tribulation

    Mark 13, Matthew 24, Luke 21, John 12:32,

    Hopefully these are helpful
  • T. Levis - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Revelation 12:9-17, John 12:20-32,

    Why do you ask? James 4:7,

    Hopefully these are helpful
  • Richard H Priday on Psalms 1 - 2 years ago
    Psalm 1 is only five verses long; but contains several very important themes. Namely; it is avoiding heeding to the council of the wicked in terms of taking to heart; the character; longevity and wisdom of the righteous and their eternal destinies; and the opposing state of the wicked.

    There are warnings for those who would esteem men and exalt those who the world does in Luke 16:15. The foolishness of God is greater than any of man's vain knowledge ( 1 Corinthians 1:25). We see this pattern among many of the Pharisees who believed but becuase they did not wish to lose their position in the Synagogue remained silent. (see John 12:42). We must heed warnings such as that of Jesus who stated that "he who confesses me before men I will confess before the Father in heaven in Matthew 10:32 and the denial of those who will deny Him in the very next verse. We see what the wicked counsel of the Jews led to with the crucifixion of Christ. At the very least we must heed to Revelation 3:11 which in my book is a very undervalued admonition about losing our reward and basically handing it over to another. We also must take care not to behave as the world does with gossip and chatter about every controversy.

    Verse 2 and 3 discuss the characteristics of the righteous. We are reminded here of Psalm 119 where the longest chapter in all scripture repeats over and over the love of the law of God which is only possible with a regenerated heart; else it ends up being religious self-righteousness. The result of such a character is perseverance of character; and blessings for this life and the one to come.

    Verse 4 and 5 discuss the wicked. It shows how they won't even stand at the judgment. That makes it clear why we shouldn't stand with them in the first place. They are compared to chaff (also seen in the N.T. and in Job 21:18; etc).

    The last verse shows how God keeps His sheep; and the wicked basically are on a default mode to destruction.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 2 years ago
    You're welcome Brother Chris.

    Not to say it's valid but it is provocative. I agree Jesus knew he was the only way and for this reason he come into the world as mentioned

    John 12:27. Now is my soul troubled; and WHAT SHALL I SAY? FATHER, SAVE ME FROM THIS HOUR: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

    ( By this verse I don't think he was trying to get off the hook )

    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I AM THE WAY, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    ( By this verse he Know it was no other way)

    Also

    Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

    That's why I believe the focus is on "IF IT BE POSSIBLE,"

    let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

    If he prayed for an escape it seems he would contradict these other verses..

    God bless
  • Don - In Reply on Revelation 2 - 2 years ago
    JAG,

    In order to get to the heart of the meaning of Revelation 2:5, one must consider the context. Revelation 2:11 relates something extremely vital to understanding the exact meaning. Bible preservation is a vitally important doctrine of Christianity, not of the original manuscripts themselves, but of the God-inspired original text. Not just wispy bodies of thoughts and ideas, but the very words and meaning. That, God's perfect Word, is what God arbitrarily preserves through the human generations ( Mark 13:31, Psalm 12:6,7, John 12:48, and others), which God has identified as the KJV for the past four centuries. Note carefully that John becomes an amanuensis to the glorified Jesus Christ. The words John wrote were dictated by Jesus. They are His direct Words to these churches. Contextually, we can easily see that the Lord's Words are doctrinal in nature. Salvation is not by "works," so Jesus is saying that, over time, the saints of the Ephesian church had drifted into some wayward error. This isn't hard to believe, for virtually all the original churches had waned in doctrine in various degrees by the end of the first century. Therefore, it is vital to obey 2 Timothy 2:15, "Study to show thyself approved unto God.rightly dividing the Word of truth."
  • T. Levis - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Lazarus, John 11, your question about those who came out of the graves, what happened to them:

    1Samuel 2:6,

    Matthew 27:52,53, 1Corinthians 15, Matthew 22:31,32, also, Luke 7:15,22, Luke 8:49-56, Luke 24, Colossians 1

    Did you see it prophesy in:? Ezekiel 37:12,13, John 5:21,25,28, Isaiah 26:19,

    Hosea 13:14, possibly Isaiah 8:1, Psalms 88:10,

    John 12:1-11,

    Romans 6, Romans 8, Revelation 20,

    John 11:25, Romans 10:9, Romans 14:7,8,9, 2Corinthians 1:9,

    Hopefully these are all helpful in answering your question & deeper questions you & others may have on the subject
  • T. Levis - In Reply on Colossians 2 - 2 years ago
    Son, Daughter of GOD: John 1:12, 1John 3:1,2, Matthew 5:9, context Matthew 5, Matthew 13:38, John 12:36, Luke 12:32, context Luke 12,

    Romans 8:14, in context please read all of Chapter Romans 8, explanation of the answer of your question in detail.

    Hopefully these are all helpful
  • David - In Reply - 2 years ago
    You said:

    "You haven't broken fellowship or erored in your walk?"

    My witness was: No one is rebuking me...

    Every true Christian believes we will be judged according to the word Jesus has spoken in his Father's name:

    Surely, the Master has said:

    He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:48

    Like God told Cain:

    If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?

    and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.

    And unto thee shall be his desire,

    and thou shalt rule over him.

    Genesis 4:7
  • Giannis - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hello Chris, just a bit of help with the greek.

    "Doulos" in greek means "slave" and nothing else, there is no case that it could be interpreted as servant or bondservant.

    Servant in old greek is "diakonos", from this word the word "deacon" (a formal servant of the church) comes from.

    Jesus was a "slave" of God, Paul was a "slave" of Christ. I Know it sounds bad in English but not in Greek.

    A slave is somebody who is not a master of his own life. He can not have plans for his life. No ambitions either. He does what his master tells him to do and when he is told to do. Time and place do not belong to him. His activities, his life is always dependant on his master's will. So Lord Jesus wants his "slaves" to be like that. Jesus' slave is not everybody. When the NT use the word slave it specifically talks about people who are ministers or charismatics. These people if they want to have result in their work/ministry they should really become like slaves. Their lives should be always directed in every single aspect by Jesus. That is why the Bible uses the word slave. Servants are not like that. I don't remember now any other verse apart from John 12:26 where the word servant is used.

    But apart from servants and slaves, we are His friends, His brothers and sisters, And His Bride.

    GBU
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply on Matthew 8 - 2 years ago
    Hey Giannis,

    I did read your post to GiGi, I read all the posts. It is ok our understandings are different. Jesus fulfilled the prophets and the law down to the last dot. Jesus is our Passover Lamb that shed His blood and was resurrected from the dead on the same day of the Feast of Firstfruits.

    My understanding is the high day that John called the Sabbath was an annual Sabbath that there are 7, not a weekly Sabbath. The Passover Day that Jesus was crucified on is a preparation day and is the preparation day in the verses you listed, all leaven had to be gone before sunset on the 14th of Nisan.

    The next day the 15th was a holy convocation, a Sabbath, and that evening when they ate the Passover meal and God delivered them out of Egypt, the 15th, Exodus 12. The last day of this seven-day feast is also a Sabbath regardless of what day of the week.

    My understanding is, Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the 10th of Nisan the first day of the week the same time people put up the Passover lambs. John 12:1-12 puts it 5 days until Passover when Jesus rode into Jerusalem. If you look at the activities of Jesus from the day, He rode in and when He is crucified in all 4 gospels you may find it will not get to Friday.

    Again, I enjoyed the conversation, I am sure we both agree Jesus shed His blood for us and resurrected from the dead giving us our only hope of salvation and eternal life with Him.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Chris - In Reply - 2 years ago
    Hello Richard. Not sure whether your comment is in reference to some one else's, so I apologize, but your reference to the woman caught in adultery ( John 8:3-11) piqued my interest.

    We know that Jesus didn't condemn the woman for her act, rather told her to desist from engaging in such encounters, and John 12:47b tells us "for I (Jesus) came not to judge the world, but to save the world", indicating that His Ministry wasn't of judgement but for souls' salvation; so it was correct that in line with His Coming, that Mercy & Forgiveness be shown & through it, sinners might see their own sin first, before casting their stones.

    But I also see another side to this, as part of the given Law, which I've never heard spoken of. The Law of God was clear & binding and the religious leaders knew it. Yet, at that time in Israel, that Law couldn't be enacted or enforced, as their was no king or judge in Israel authorized to do so. I guess the religious leaders took it upon themselves to fill that void, as they also had much sway in the domestic & religious lives of the Jews. But were they legitimate in meting out the death penalty (or, any punishment), for sins/crimes committed? They could certainly see & acknowledge the wrongs done in society, but did they have the power to exact a penalty such as this? Or, would they be limited to committing the woman to a time of separation, of introspection, repentance, & then restoration? Maybe, as a pastor/elder would do in the Church today?

    So, I detect that Jesus, in His ministry to both the woman & the leaders, was also showing to them, that such judgement rested only with God and to those He had authorized to exact it; that these religious leaders ought to confine themselves to matters of the synagogue & guidance to the Law's requirements, rather than taking on the role of judges. And after all, the Romans were their rulers/judges at that time, though generally uninterested in these Jewish 'strange' practises. Just a thought.
  • Richard H Priday on John 12 - 2 years ago
    John 12 and Predestination

    This section goes from they did not believe (as seen in John 6:64; 8:46 and others) to verse 39 of this chapter which states that they COULD not believe as prophesied in Isaiah 53:1.

    Verse 42 serves as a harsh reminder that we can have belief in Christ but we also must CONFESS with our mouths ( Romans 10:9-10) in order to have saving faith. We are reminded here of Luke 16:15 which states that which is honorable among men is an abomination to God.

    Here; it was praise of men that was the cause; and being thrown out of the synagogue; not even direct physical persecution.

    Verse 48 reminds us of the conviction of the Spirit as mentioned in John 16:8; a few chapters later. Clearly; the whole Godhead works as a unit in tandem in ways mysterious to man.

    Verse 40 goes on further to state from Isaiah about God Himself blinding men. Some other verses on that include 2 Thessalonians 2:11 where God Himself sends strong delusion so that they will believe the lie because of the previous verse where they did not LOVE the truth. Also we have Isaiah 66:4 where it says that God will choose their delusions.

    All sin stems from self justification; and self love that cannot accept the true state of our souls as fallen man because of Adam and his progeny that makes up natural man. Naked we come into this world and naked we shall go ( Job 1:21); also see Ecclesiastes 5:15. We cannot love anything above God; Jesus uses the word HATE for anything else ( Luke 14:25-26). We see the general sentiment in verse 25 of this chapter. Clearly; Christ Himself showed love in the previous chapter for Lazarus; Mary and Martha as well as John when He said "Behold your mother" to John at the cross so that he could take care of her. ( John 19:26-27).

    There were times when they sought Him out when He stated the more important principle that those who followed Him were brothers; sisters; etc. ( Luke 8:21).

    The blueprint for being a child of God or not is in John 12.
  • George H Shouey - In Reply on Revelation 22 - 2 years ago
    Read 1 Thess. 4. It is the clearest text about the Second Coming and what happens when you die. The dead come from the grave and meet the Lord in the air. Also consider this. When Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, John 11, if he was in Heaven Jesus brought him back so the Pharases could kill him. John 12:10 Jesus said "he sleeps when He was addressing comments regarding Lazarus' death. Everyone is in the grave until the resurrection of the just or the resurrection of the unjust. John 5:28-29
  • Richard H Priday - 2 years ago
    A day in the life of Christ part 3

    In looking at and comprehending Christ's unlimited attributes; we might think that with no surprises as to the assessment of men; that He wouldn't experience some of the reactions that He did. One notable example of this was with the Centurion who prayed for His child. ( Matthew 8:5-10). In His human emotions there was nothing wrong with this; in essence He was greatly rejoicing and "basking in the moment" as it were. Mark 6:1:6 shows the opposite example; that of the unbelief of those from His own hometown. This was righteous annoyance if not downright indignation; again not any surprise to the Son of God. Other times there are instances where He wept; careful study of those scriptures gives us insight as to WHY He did so; often associated with the unbelief and blindness of others. It should be noted that as the "Man of Sorrows" there is no verse showing Him laughing while on earth ( Isaiah 53:3). There is no die hard rule here; but we should carefully assess our reasoning for humor and ensure it isn't for inappropriate thoughts.

    Again; it is clear that there were varied levels of depth to Christ's speech; particularly in regard to the parables which He expounded to the Disciples privately after declaring them openly. They were designed so that those who thought they could see were revealted to be blind. ( John 9:39; etc.) He therefore upbraided His disciples frequently for not understanding. To draw all men unto Himself; therefore meant all those the Father had given to Him ( John 12:32; John 6:37 for comparison). We see His temporary solitude with the Disciples after the death of John the Baptist be abruptly halted after the crowds followed Him. Since only some of the crowd was sincere; it shows the nature of Christ in continuing to meet their needs despite the grief of Himself and the Disciples. His priorities made such decisions to care for others above His own needs (coming to serve and not be served
  • T. Levis - In Reply - 2 years ago
    LaNette M. Tolliver

    Please read : John 11:1-53,

    Luke 16:19-31, someone I believe it was "Chris" in previous discussion multiple months ago, pointed out most Parables, if not all were without name, but this one, perhaps being about Lazarus.

    John 12:1-18,

    The sisters have much also mentioned it appears : Luke 10:38-42,

    Matthew 27:56,61, Matthew 28:1, Mark 15:40,47, Mark 16:1,9, Luke 8:2, Luke 24:10, John 19:25, John 20:1-18,

    Possibly even: Romans 16:6,

    Hopefully these are helpful
  • Adam - In Reply on John 20 - 2 years ago
    Hi Suze, John 1:1 tells us that Jesus is God and other verses say He created all things.

    Verses of Jesus accepting worship:

    John 20:28

    Matthew 28:8-9

    Mark 16:1

    Matthew 2:11

    Matthew 21:9

    John 12:13

    We are also to obey Jesus:

    John 8:31

    John 14:15

    John 14:21-24

    John 15:10-14

    1 John 2:3


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