"Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour."
Three hours as the Spirit records it intends the darkness as a sign independent of natural cause of a solar eclipse. The number Three decidedly favors the spiritual darkness enveloping in their rejection of the Son; by the same token we have another sign, of graves letting out their contents as though in protest; The torn veil of the temple is a symbolic act as the word of God fulfilling as in the case of the hour of darkness that had now taken over the land. Jesus was correct in the timing. "I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me./But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled." (26:55-56) The word of God zeroed in, that the Word become flesh could not have missed. (To digress a little, obedience of Jesus Christ was perfected in letting the word of his Father work with him.)
The voice came from heaven and in the Gospel of John Jesus explains it clearly. "Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes."( John 12:30). It was while he was alive. By the same token the death of the Son could not have passed on without some visible signs of it. There are so many strange signs and bizarre light and sound show in the sky. What does the man on the street say,"UFO sighting." His reasonable mind wants to hitch his mind to anything however silly it may be. But he rejects any suggestion that rejecting the word concerning shall have serious consequences. The mind of the centurion who witnessed the events, was much more of noble cast. " they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God."(v.54) Consider the chief priests and the Pharisees who would hush up his resurrection, what was their mind like? (vv.62-66) Do you think the modern churches shall disband their churches or abjure their heresies in the face of truth revealed?
I work with the Word of GOD, and I have already answered your questions several times.
I work with the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, don't you understand? Two thousand years ago the Word Himself was made flesh by the NAME of JESUS, yes, by the NAME of JESUS, as He promised to His people through the prophets- Hebrews 1:1-3, as I have said in answering your questions. But you are masked by a pretense, and you pretend have not seen, your lack of interest in the Word of GOD reveals who really dominates your life.
I reapeat. I work with the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, don't you understand? Why do you not understand my speech? It's because you are unable to hear the true and pure Word of Truth. Your lack of interest in the Word of GOD reveals who dominates you your life.
I repeat. I work with the Word of GOD, and I have already answered your questions several times, but not according your evil and disguised spirit, for the Word of GOD -the Word is GOD Himself- recommends saying: Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like unto him-Prov.26:4. And the Word states that "when the fool speaks pleasantly, believe him not / don't trust him: for there are SEVEN abominations in his heart. And my Lord JESUS clearly revealed, saying: Luke 11:23-24 and 26:
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
Furthemore, my Lord JESUS left very clear, saying: John 12:47-48:
If any man hear my words, and believe not, I Judge him not: for I came not to Judge the world, but to save the world. But already hath one that Judgeth him:...
"He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake./Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me."
"For his name's sake" is what holiness does. Holy is his name as Mary would cry out inspired by it is doable. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father./And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son./ If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it." John 14:12-14)
Manufacturing names gave the nation of Israel something to crow about which simply meant nothing since holiness of their names did not go deeper to be 'be holy for I am holy." Their heart was not right that they observed the minutiae of the requirements of Law without knowing the fulfillment of the Law was represented in the Son whom God had sent.They rejected him proving that their heart was estranged all along. A no better example we need seek than the time God gave the nation of Israel the decalogue. "And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die."(Ex.20:19). Jesus was among them when a voice from heaven spoke. "Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again./The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him./Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes."( John 12:28-30) God had judged their hypocrisy.
Holiness of name is doable and a clear proof of it is in the glory it sheds."I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do."(17:4) Jesus Christ in his humanity finished the work proving it was doable.
Vs 5 The plan of God, predetermined glory, Jesus knew the Scriptures. All that was to happen to Him and the glory He would receive after He suffered on the cross had already been spoken by the prophets in the past tense as though they had already happened.
As Jesus was on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:25-26, He talks about them not believing what the prophets had written about what was to happen to Jesus. The first man to be raised from the dead in a glorified body and God placed Him on His right hand on the throne a man, not a god.
Jesus was a man who was tempted like us and fulfilled all His Father asked Him we see hundreds of prophecies Jesus fulfilled and the man Jesus did it without one sin. Only a man could undo what the first man did. God could not do that because He cannot sin or die. The law was made for man and the curse of sin was on man, not God.
In Verses 20-22, Jesus had not yet been crucified and the glory the Father had given Him Jesus has given it to us today "but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;" This glory we will receive when Jesus returns and we are resurrected in our glorified bodies, we have it now, but it will not be manifest until Jesus returns.
If Jesus was a co-equal God in the three-person God, how could He be given anything He would already have it? Malachi 3:6 says God does not change so God cannot change, Numbers 23:19Isaiah 46:10Psalm 33:11Acts 17:26 The glory Jesus was asking for, He would receive when He resurrected.
The Spirit could not be given because Jesus had not been glorified (resurrected) John 7:39 Things were hidden from the disciples until Jesus was glorified (resurrected) John 12:16.
2 Timothy 1:9-10 It was given before creation so, John 17:24 we will be where He is when we are resurrected, Jesus was given glory with the Father before all creation in God's mind and plan. Ephesians 1:4
I hope this makes sense I am not the best at this.
The Passover and the Festival of the Unleavened Bread Le.23:5
Ex.12:1-6
And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,/ This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
God spoke to Moses in the land of Egypt. Before the children of Israel could claim the Promised Land 'this month' signified altogether a new walk with God. When He says, 'Now is the day of salvation' it is God's Time. It is thus we look at the spiritual significance of a new year. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new (2 Co.5:17)".
Their observance of Tisri was after the traditions of their fathers. Not so with God.
Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house'(12:3)
'A lamb for an house' is highly significant.' On the tenth day, which entails a time lapse. The house or the nation the symbolism of the lamb remains consistent with the slain Lamb before the foundation of the world. It is the emblem for Salvation Plan in the divine Will through ages. What does the numberTen signify? Ten is a full hand or measure. It has another significance, under the Law: judgment
The Passover day also coincided with Joshua (Hellenized form of the name is Jesus) leading the people, "And the people came up out of Jordan on the tenth day of the first month, and encamped in Gilgal, in the east border of Jericho (Josh.4:19)". Here is another: And Christ, our Paschal Lamb, on this day entered Jerusalem, riding on an ass; the people bearing palm branches, and crying, Hosanna, ( John 12:12-13).
Thank you for this discussion, it is good to hear salvation is not dependent on this doctrine I have been told in many Churches I have attended I was not saved and was a heretic and shunned.
You know Greek better than I, but my understanding is the word Godhead which was added in the 1500s was translated twice and is misleading. Godhead is in the Bible 3 times, Acts 17:29, Greek word theios which means divine, Romans 1:20, Greek word theiotes which means divinity, divine nature, and Colossians 2:9 Greek word Theotetos which means deity.
The verse Colossians 2:9, in Jesus, dwelleth all the fulness of the deity of God, Jesus was filled without measure with God's Spirit/Holy Spirit John 3:34. John the Baptist said God had told him when Jesus was anointed/baptized John 1:32-33. God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by the Spirit. God gave Jesus power and authority Matthew 11:27. In John 1:14 we probably differ, God in Jesus dwelt/tabernacled among us. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49John 14:10.
Mark 2:5-8 in Matthew 11:25 Things were hidden from the wise and prudent, Scribes, Sadducees, and Pharisees were the ones accusing Jesus of blasphemy, as we see in Matthew 9:6-8, the same event multitudes glorified God. Jesus was given full authority in Matthew 28:18 and John 17:2-3 that we should know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent, same as all the introductions, greetings, and blessings given to the followers of Christ in the New Testament were from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ and in Revelation 21:22.
All authority has been given to Jesus by the Father until the last enemy, death is put under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:25-28Revelation 20:14.
Speaking of Judgment,JESUS said"the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net,that was cast into the sea,and gathered of every kind:Which,when it was full,they drew to shore,and gathered the good into vessels,but cast the bad away-Mat.13:47-48 compared with Mat.25:30.
Paul said:"For we must all appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ;that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done,whether it be good or bad-2Cor.5:10.
JESUS said: John 12:47-48:->47 if any man hear my words, and believe not,I Judge him not:for I came not to judge the world,but to save the world.48 He that rejecteth me,and receiveth not my words,hath one that Judgeth him:the WORD that I have spoken,the same shall Judge him in the last Day(seventh and last Day,seventh and last millennium.Well,it already arrived)
JESUS is in heaven now and is sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.He will not come here again except to caught His people to the new heavenly place( Luke 20:35-36 combined with 1Thes.4:15-17),but it is necessary to have lamp and oil, otherwise will be lost for ever.But Judgment will be given to the saints of the most High;the time came that the saints shall possess the kingdom,and they shall take away the dominion,to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom and dominion,and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven,shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,and all dominions shall serve and obey him-Dan.7:22&26-27.
And Peter said:The time is come that Judgment must begin at the house of GOD:and if it first begin at us,what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of GOD?And if the righteous scarcely be saved,where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?1Pe.4:17-18
JESUS warned,saying:at midnight there was a crie made,Behold,the bridegroom came;go ye out to meet him,they that are ready go in with him to the marriage:the door shall be shut.
There are different places in the prophecies that say Christ will pour out the same plagues that were poured out on the Egyptians.
But, they want be LITERAL as they were in Egypt.
Hail mingled with fire was one of the plagues in Egypt, as was frogs.
Ezekiel 13:11 ....oh great hailstones shall fall, and a stormy wind shall rend it....
Ezekiel 38:22 And I will plead with him with pestilence and blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon many people that are with him, and overflowing rain, and great hailstone, fire and brimstone.
Isaiah 30:30 And the Lord SHALL CAUSE his glorious voice (his word) to be heard, and shall show the lighting down his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the FLAME of a devouring FIRE, with scattering, and tempest and hailstones.
So all these are SYMBOLIC of something that is going to judge God's people, as did the plagues judge the Egyptians.
John 5:22 ... God hath committed all judgement to the Son ...
So these symbols of judgement are symbols of Christ, and Christ is the Word, and the WORD(S) of God JUDGES US.
John 12:48 ... the words that I have spoken, the same words will judge you .....
Isaiah 28:2 Behold the Lord has a mighty and strong one (the WORD), which as a tempest of HAIL and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters, shall cast down to earth with the hand
Isaiah 28:3 The crown of PRIDE .....
Isaiah 28:5 In that day (of judgement when one believes God's word) the Lord (the WORD) shall be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty,unto the residue his people.
Isaiah 28:8 But they (the residue of his people) have also ERRED THROUGH WINE (explained in other scriptures, but is not alcoholic wine), and through strong drink (not alcohol) are OUT OF THE WAY (Christ is the way) .... they err in VISION and stumble in JUDGEMENT.
you have not understood what I wrote. No; I do not agree with your interpretation of these Scriptures. I do agree with your understanding of these modernization of the Scriptures.
It's only God's Spirit that can lead us into the riches of the treasures of God's Wisdom & Understanding for His Name Sake.
This is by Grace / Light 2Cor 4:6,7
This is what Jesus meant in John 12:44-50 John 6:63Rev 19:10
The Word of God speaking in the heart, that's near us, the Word of Faith that Paul preached.
Who rides a white horse, who is Faithful & True, with a two edged sword coming out of His mouth, & in Rightousness He doth judge & make war against the principalities & powers of darkness in heavenly places within our heart.
And whosoever receive Him in this manner, receive power to become the sons & daughters of God.
and whosoever don't will remain in their sins, no matter how high a profession or form of godliness without the Power.
Lev 26:15-21 God is speaking to His people, the history of the children of Israel full of this. 2 Chronicles 7:14Jeremiah 3:22Hosea 6:1,2
Christ brings this into the NT John 12:40Acts 28:27
Hebrews 12:5-11 speaking of His children
He does this in His merciful lovingkindness to us, we being so blinded by the deceitfulness of sin, it must be scourge out, define as "to flog" lit or fig, God as a father chastising and training men as children by affliction,
Chastisement; Education or training; by implication, disciplinary correction, chastening, instruction, nurture.
There's two kinds of fear, & many manifestations of each, all grounded in one of the two, godly fear which foundation is grounded in obedient reverential love for God.
The other, Satan counter part, grounded in disobedience which brings torment, where condemnation & guilt in one's own heart follows them wherever they go, for they have offended the Holy God; they having continue in disobedience to the Grace of God which appears in their hearts.
God's love in chastising correction, cast this fear & torment out
& why? John 14:21, which defines love, which makes way for John 14:23 one's habitation becomes a dwelling place for Perfect Love in the work of Sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling of the Blood/Life of Jesus.
thus "for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness.
Hebrews 12:11 exercising the Grace of God, the Word of Righteousness in discerning between Good & evil,, there's suffering in the Cross to learn righteousness. 1Pet 4:1
Then we have Job, who God said is perfect, Job 2:3; which trials, suffering & afflictions is of a much higher concept than punishment for disobedience, James 5:11
Hebrews 11:33 for this purpose "obtain a better resurrection"
one eighty, you would do well to live out your call name.
your in darkness, deceived; dwelling, speaking & judging falsely against God
While speaking of the unpardonable sin against the Holy Ghost it is as though coming from Trinity. (Matt.12:31-32). 'Therefore I say unto you' in v.31 is from the Son and the following verse is from the Father. This coming from the Holy Ghost would go against his own narrative mode. In the Gospel of John Jesus speaking about the Holy Ghost speaks thus," Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.( John 16:13). 'He shall not speak of himself'. For this reason it is implied that the Trinity is witnessing the unpardonable sin is accounted on anyone who disregards the warning.
There is a time lapse, which is not because God is slow in hearing the prayers of a saint. The Holy Ghost the third office organizes the will of God according to the Word so the timing is perfect. In Daniel's case the angel of his Presence had to attend what changes in the light of his request. "The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia," (Dan.10:13-ESV).This mode of parenthesis ought to inform the length breadth and depth of Power and Wisdom of God.
The intent of the word wide web also throws light on the Law. "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple."(Ps.19:7) Jesus obeyed the will of his Father and it was not only in big events like his death and resurrection but in obedience to the word. Marriage at Cana has this" "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come."( John 2:4), and this, "Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready." ( John 7:6). "And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified."( John 12:23)
Let's step back and think for a moment. What is heaven exactly? Surely a large factor there is that we will SERVE God forever.
John 12:26 says in KJV: If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Let us examine the same verse in the amplified version:
If anyone serves Me, he must [continue to faithfully] follow Me [without hesitation, holding steadfastly to Me, conforming to My example in living and, if need be, suffering or perhaps dying because of faith in Me]; and wherever I am [in heaven's glory], there will My servant be also. If anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.
I am not an expert on translations but it would seem eternally serving God is a theme here! Revelation 7:13-15 and Revelation 22:3 make this abundantly clear as to the serving of God eternally of His saints. Worship is also inextricably tied to being a servant; and the ruling and reigning with Christ is part and parcel with the destiny of the church as Kings and Priests before the throne as well ( Revelation 5:10; etal).
Now as we assess this life; surely we see this attitude of service begins here; and Christ of course laid out the perfect example with His life. Mark 10:45 shows how Christ came not to be served but to serve; if God incarnate followed that principal surely His disciples must do the same.
As to work in heaven; surely it won't be a drudgery. The curse with the thorns and sweat on the brow will be gone that we inherited in the garden. We won't have unreasonable taskmasters; stressful deadlines; and other difficulties. Work no doubt will be a cooperative effort since we will all be together in performing tasks. No doubt individual things will be suitable for us as well.
The world at large cannot serve without some benefit for themselves; just like we can't love unconditionally (see Matthew 5:34).
Judgment on Babylon (Is.13:1-3,12) present God shaking a hand, " Shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles (Is.13:2)".
An abstract idea of anger of the Lord God is translated into a physical act. So raising a banner is synonymous with the battle cry. It is always done before the opposing army so the standard of the army is to be seen by all; especially for the cohorts for whom colours are invested with a feeling, consequently a morale booster.
Up, down or mid-air
The Spirit has arranged the narrative on the basis to glorify the Son. This is what St Paul speaks of his fullness: "For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.(Col.1:16-17; John 1:3
So the body that God has prepared before the worlds began (He.10:5) naturally creates a frame of reference wherever such diverse things for example, rock, water bread are mentioned.
As mediator he is positioned in mid-air in death ('And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself- John 12:32-NIV). From the narrative of the Father the Spirit sets down the pole with brazen serpent to counterbalance so the cross serves as symbol for his intercessory role upholding both heaven and the earth. (See under A- Ark of Noah)
Jesus died and preached the gospel to the captives. "What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?(Ep.4:8-10-NIV)"
The sign of the fleece of "Behold, I will put a fleece of wool in the floor; and if the dew be on the fleece only, and it be dry upon all the earth beside, then shall I know(Ju.6:37)." This dew is a symbol holiness of God expressed as mercy. The fleece is significant and the symbol refers to the slain Lamb as well.
Next day the sign that Gideon asked for was just the reverse, "Let me prove, I pray thee, but this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew./ And God did so that night: for it was dry upon the fleece only, and there was dew on all the ground. (Ju.39-40)" Redemption by the blood of Jesus serves as a sign for Gideon while it (dew on the ground) explains Jesus as 'the Savior of the world'. In Jesus we are hidden in Christ while in body.
This sign holds yet another great spiritual truth as to the bodies we shall put on in the day of regeneration. After death the term 'spiritual bodies' explains the process in which the inner man with the indwelling Spirit is part of the body of Christ at the day of regeneration.
This shall explain the significance of this verse "Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion(Is,8:18)". Israel is a stand in for New Jerusalem as Adam is a stand in for last Adam in eternity.
The Spirit organized the entire God document where the mode of inversion is the norm. Thus God framed worlds of the Spirit (invisible) and what is seen is the world of the body. God sends his Son to the world so whosoever received may reign with him in heavenly place. He chose the foolish things to confound the wise is yet another. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit." ( John 12:24) "So also is the resurrection of the dead."(1 Co.15:42-46)
Isaiah 9:6 his name shall be called does not make him what the name is many Hebrew names have God in them. Jesus says He came in His Father's name.
John 1:1-4 What is the beginning that John is referencing here? Is this the beginning/creation or is this John's prologue of his gospel, the beginning of Jesus's ministry, as in Luke 1:2 or 1 John 1:1? The word of God was in Jesus for everything Jesus said was not His words but the Father's words who sent Him, John 4:16John 12:49John 14:24.
Jesus was the Tabernacle of God; God was manifested in Jesus, and this is the light that shined. The light that shined was eternal life 1 John 1:2. This life was given to the Son from the Father John 5:26 and we can have this gift through Jesus Christ our Lord Romans 6:23. Jesus proclaimed the Father, the Father was the Word which was proclaimed to the world, and the Word was God. In Revelation 19:13, Jesus's name is the Word of God.
John 10:30John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: As God and Jesus are one through Jesus we also can be one in unity and purpose.
John 14:9 The Father was in Jesus by God's Spirit everything Jesus did and said was from the Father. This is what Jesus is telling them in verse 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
I understand we differ, and this doctrine is deeply rooted, I do not want to offend anyone. I have studied the creation of it, and it was as much or more political than Scriptural, especially considering the number of lives that were taken because of it.
No, I do not mind. I understand the Trinity doctrine is deeply rooted, and I do not want to offend. But this doctrine was placed equal in value with there is only salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ. Without this doctrine one cannot be saved, please let me know if that is wrong.
My understanding, God cannot sin, and God cannot be tempted, Scripture is clear God sent His only begotten Son not Himself, John 3:16. Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit without measure to do all the miracles, and the work Jesus was sent to do by the Father. John 8:29John 12:44John 14:24.
Jesus humbled Himself, Phil. 2:8 Jesus was made flesh for the suffering of death, Heb. 2:9. Jesus was tempted the same as we are, Heb. 4:15. Jesus was born under the law, Gal. 4:4. Jesus fulfilled the law that only flesh could do. If he was not able to sin He could not fulfill the law, it would be a farce, God could not fulfill a law He wrote for man, man had to fulfill it. Matt. 12:28Luke 4:1John 3:34
Everlasting in Isaiah 9:6 it is the Hebrew word ad that means perpetuity a bond or a contract without an end, forever. We both agree God is eternal no beginning or end, but the Son is begotten/brought into existence before anything not created. When that was? Scripture only covers from the beginning.
Isaiah 9:6 Some things have been debated some say it was about Hezekiah. I feel it is about Jesus, but it could be looked at, as part of it about His first coming and part of it when He sets up the kingdom on earth. The titles or names in this verse, and how we understand them.
"His name shall be called" Many Hebrew names have God in them but that does not change who they are and mean they are God. The name is a vehicle to express things of God, it is the power of the name. and we see this through scripture. God was manifested through His Son, 1 John 1:1-2. That was what Jesus was saying to Philip in John 14:8-11. Jesus said; "the works that I do in my Father's name."
Hi Jeff. Yes, in Revelation 12:10 we read, "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren IS CAST DOWN, which accused them before our God day and night." However, in trying to piece together Satan's former position in Heaven or on Earth now & all that transpired in-between, is not always easy as I would relegate teaching on this doctrine (of Satan) amongst the many that the Bible gives sparse information & therefore cannot be fully understood. Therefore, in reading about Satan & his angels (the ones that followed him after he was booted out of God's Presence), often brings conflicts in our understanding & agreement.
For example, we know that Satan was already with sin & banished from God's Presence right at the time of the creation of man & woman ( Genesis 3:14,15, where Satan had used an animal to tempt man to also become like him & his quest to be like God). And Ezekiel 28:12-15, of Satan who infected the King of Tyrus to also usurp the Throne of God (see also Isaiah 14:12-15, where Satan also used the Babylonian king). Yet, we read that Satan still had access to Heaven, whereas Revelation 12:7-9 tells us that only after the "war in Heaven", Satan & his angels lost the battle, & was cast down to the Earth for all time.
So, in my cautious understanding, Satan no longer has access into Heaven, though in some way he still manages to bring accusation before God against those who belong to Jesus. But Satan & his work were judged at the Cross ( John 12:31), and though his work continues to tempt & blind the hearts of men since then, he knows his time is short ( Revelation 12:12), that in a future day he will be confined in the abyss ( Revelation 20:2,3), & at the end of the Millennium period, be locked away forever in the Lake of Fire ( Revelation 20:10). This is how I try to piece it all together - though not without conjecture or error.
You quote Job 39:12 and you assign the "seed" to being the word of God. What you are doing is 'spiritualising' a statement of God to Job that was a literal question being put to Job by God that required from Job a literal answer. As Job had none aren't you being somewhat presumptuous here in your claims as to what the seed and the barn mean? An illustration of God's questioning of Job is shown in the verses below:
Job 39:1 "Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth [their offspring]? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve? 2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil [their gestation]? or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?"
Anyone can spiritualise scripture to make it say whatever they want it to say - but it doesn't mean that it is true. Therefore, I reject what you say about this verse.
In regards to your view on John 12:24, although Jesus compares Himself to a grain of wheat as you say, His death was aimed to bring "many sons to glory" ( Hebrews 2:10) through the new birth ( John 3:3-8). Jesus could not establish a glorious church on Earth through His people unless He died and was glorified ( John 7:37-39; Acts 2:33; Eph. 1). Christians today are expected to die as Christ did - but NOT in the physical sense but in the spiritual sense:
- In this, we are to crucify our 'Old Man' nature until "he" is DEAD - Romans 6:6.-
- If we haven't, then spiritually speaking, God sees us as "walking in the flesh" ( Romans 8:1, 7).
However, if we are truly "born-again", we will share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with others so as to bring more lost souls into God's kingdom. By doing this, we (as being that "corn of wheat) will then "...bringeth forth much fruit" - meaning, the lost souls into God's kingdom through personal evangelism, "...some [corns'] an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. 9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear!" ( Matt 13:3-9).
I never said nor believed you complained to administration, others read your comments and can react to those comments.
We are ALL the BODY of Christ, by the resurrection of Christ, ALL have become ONE, even our prodigal sons, even though they have not AS YET come to that truth, they will be DRAWN back to CHRIST.
God speaks of things that ARE NOT, as if they ALREADY ARE.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I WILL draw ALL MEN unto me.
Genesis 18:14 ... at the TIME APPOINTED, I will return to thee, according to the TIME of LIFE ....
Matthew 13:30 Let them grow together (the wheat and the tares) ......but gather the wheat into the barn ....
Job 39:12 Wilt thou believe him (a prophecy of the Messiah), that he (Christ) may bring home the SEED (the word of God), and gather it (the word of God)(the SEED)(the WHEAT)(all symbols of CHRIST) into the barn (a symbol of the TEMPLE)
John 12:24 ... except a corn of WHEAT (SEED)(word of God)(CHRIST) fall into the ground (the grave)and DIE, it (Christ)(the WORD)(the SEED) (the WHEAT) abideth alone, but if it (Christ, the SEED, the WORD, the WHEAT) DIE, it (CHRIST) bringeth forth much FRUIT.
Wheat makes more WHEAT, Christ makes MORE CHRIST.
Ephesians 4:4 ..... ONE body .... ONE Spirit ....
John 17:22 .... that they may be ONE as we are ONE ......
Christ ONLY was raised from the DEAD.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIED ANYMORE: but they are EQUAL to the ANGELS, being the children of the RESURRECTION.
Isaiah 63:9 ... and the ANGEL of HIS PRESENCE SAVED THEM ....
There are verses where it says that God dwells in thick clouds; i.e. a form of darkness. ( 1 Kings 8:12; also see Psalm 97:2). Darkness in the physical realm is simply the opposite of light. We could say in terms of evil that calamity is created by God for His purposes; although the Lord allows evil spirits to have some authority in that situation (such as the trials with Job). As with Job; the Tribulation also is predetermined to be a time of greater evil than has ever occurred before; or will ever be afterwards. ( Matt. 24:21). Such a trial can be escaped ( Rev. 3:10) by those who are walking in the Spirit as Jesus declared to the Philadelphia church. Those who will endure the Tribulation will be given the strength to overcome; and all those NOT written in the Book of Life will worship the Beast ( Rev. 17:8). In short; physical death represents overcoming; while preserving one's life causes one to ultimately lose it; in terms of eternal life ( John 12:25). This means as a believer it makes sense to "die daily" ( 1 Cor 15:31) which opposes the flesh which desires the opposite.
God did create hell as well; but originally it was meant for the Devil and his angels. ( Matt. 25:41). Clearly; men enter in there because they are following their master; namely Satan rather than God. Therefore; all things work out for the good for those who love God ( Romans 8:28); but conversely; there is no peace for the wicked ( Isaiah 48:22; other passages).
Those who truly know Christ have already gone from darkness into light ( 1 Peter 2:9; etal). We also are able to escape any of the second death ( Rev. 20:7). It is in men's hearts where the god of this world has blinded them; not in the physical realm at this time ( 2 Cor. 4:4). Therefore the darkness of spiritual blindness is basically the essence of evil; so in that sense if we aren't careful what we consider light is really darkness ( Luke 11:35).
Deuteronomy 29:29 shows how we can't fathom God's hidden counsel.
Prophecy was inextricably woven throughout all phases of Jesus' ministry. The Parables had hidden truths on His return; the fate of the Apostles and the future end time events were emphasized in Matthew 24; and His role of God in the flesh was brought to the attention of the Pharisees as well as to those who would worship Him recognizing His Divinity. In this regard; of course hell was discussed more than heaven including the real account of Lazarus and the rich (unnamed) man in hell.
It is truly remarkable to see how the miraculous signs and wonders were unable to wake anyone up to the truth who God didn't elect. Such is the case with the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Such is the case in Luke 16:31. In fact; when we consider the Crucifixion and Resurrection even clear evidences weren't enough to convince the Roman officials and those in power. This is abundantly clear from Matthew 28:13 where the soldiers were actually paid for "sleeping on the job" when such an offence by law would be a death penalty certainty. Men will go out of their way to lie; just as we saw with Lazarus being raised by Christ they saught to kill him and Christ because of their insane jealousy of His authority ( John 12:9-11).
In all of this we shouldn't avoid seeing the big picture. Christ in all of His ministry only did the Father's will ( John 8:28; 38; John 12:49). His exaltation; therefore and claims to Diviity were never self serving; but whowed God's plan. Somehow Christ would condescend to being a man; and have a life of sorrow and suffering ( Isaiah 53); then He would take on the sins of all His elect and be our atonement; dying on the cross and rising victorious. EXERCISING His authority would be after God grants it to Him ( John 28:18). He voluntarily emptied Himself of this authority so God could renew it (Phillipians 2:5-8).
Christ knew all men's hearts. We can say that all things were done in the Spirit by Him.
Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.
I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;
Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;
As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.
Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.
This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;
It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;
Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.
Did not know it was Messiah the King in Dan. 9:25, whether that would matter, we know He is King.
I have enjoyed this discussion because of its importance not on salvation but for those who will be living when the end starts. This 70th week, if it is in the future or if it has been fulfilled in the past makes a world of difference in what people are expecting to happen.
If the 70th week is in the future there will be the 7-year pre, mid, or post-tribulation as taught, but if it has been fulfilled in the past that would make that false. What outcome would that have on those who are here?
Daniels people, the lost sheep of Israel, Matt. 10:5-6 did not reject Him, it was the corrupt rulers of Jerusalem and the temple, Luke 16:14-15 whose eyes were blinded and Jesus cried over it Luke 19:39-44. Many of them believed in Him but would not confess Him, John 12:42. Jesus the Messiah had to be cut off/sacrificed, Psalm 22:16-18Isaiah 53:8-12 to atone for sins, Dan. 9:26.
If the priests and leaders of Jerusalem had received Jesus as their Messiah and had not conspired with the Romans to crucify Him, there would be no atonement sacrifice for the salvation of the Jews first and also to the Greek/Gentiles, it was God's plan.
Daniel 9:25-27 is a precise prediction of when Jesus would come and be anointed. In the scripture from Matthew to Acts 8:4-5, there is strong evidence without assumption of a 7-year amount of time from the anointing of Jesus the Messiah and His 3.5-year ministry/confirming the covenant to the lost sheep of Israel, Daniel's people.
His crucifixion in the middle and 3.5 more years the gospel was to only the lost sheep, Daniel's people by Jesus through His apostles, thousands were saved, then the death of Stephen, and the gospel going to the Gentiles, to make the Jews jealous, the branch broke off, but still offered to the Jews.
Amen, & I think these verses say it best.. John 3:17 For God sent not His son into the world to condemn the world: but that the world through Him might be saved. 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. 12:31 Now is the judgement of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 12:47 And if any man hear my words & believe not, I judge him not; For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world (it's a choice). 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye (you) might have peace, in the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. 17:14, I have given them the word, & the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 1 Corinthians 7:31 they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away. James 4:4 Ye adulterers & adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world, is the enemy of God. 1John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in Him. 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes & the 'pride' of life, is NOT of the Father, but is of the world. 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God, overcome the world & this is the victory that overcome the world, even our faith. *next verse I have a Qs: does it mean that we don't have to believe in Christ walk on earth to be saved yet we must believe that He died for our sins to be saved? Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come*. which kinda goes with John 12:47 does it not? I've always heard & live by, "just because we are in the world doesn't mean we have to be of the world".! God bless 'Texsis'
About Judas, it is true that we don't know much about him apart that he eventually became a thief and kept stealing money from the bag ( John 12:6), so it seems he had some issues with money. I have also heard those theories about Judas but I don't know where they rely on, in which writtings.
I am sorry about your sons. My son also left the faith when he was 15, now he is 20, although he was born in the church. But we must trust God that He will eventually find a way to draw them back. This is a promise to believers, remember what Paul and Silas said to the guard in Philippi, Acts 17:31, "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, AND THY HOUSE.". There isn't much we can do on our own apart from praying and talking to them, if and when they wish to hear. I know very many cases of parents who didn't quit and insisted in praying about their kids and finally saw marvelous results. So be encouraged.
Now about the belief of OSAS I believe they found a method to overcome all those cases we see in the Bible, about believers who mess their salvation up, but also cases in the real life. The method is called "not truly saved". What does that mean? I know people who believed, were born again, lived a sanctified life for years, sacrificing many things for their faith, like their fame, even their job, they lost friends and relatives but sometime in their lifes for their own reasons they decided to go back to the sinful world and live as before. Weren't they truly saved? So what were they doing all those years in the church? What for? Were they masochists? Because being a christian means mainly sacrificies in every aspect of your life.
In the parable of the prodigal son we see a happy end, but in real life the end is not always happy. I always have in mind a couple such cases in my church. People who I met and had companionship with them for a long time.
Brother David has made several comments about God's words being parables.
You have said God's words are often metaphors.
Revelation says his words are symbols.
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and earth ....
There are LITERAL heavens and earth; but, they are also metaphors and symbols in a parable.
heaven and earth are MAN, earth being the carnal form of man where deception rules, heaven being the born again man where truth and life rule.
We are the GARDEN OF (eden) GOD where the ONE TREE that bears BOTH the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL is in the MIDST thereof.
Man; made of EARTH (dust), has to be destroyed, and become a creation of Spirit, the new heaven and new earth.
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and earth, which are now, by the SAME WORD (that made them earth) are keep in store (since the day or resurrection) reserved unto fire against the day of JUDGEMENT ...
For you and I and all others alive at this given moment; we are being JUDGED by the written word's of God, if you don't believe his words: DEATH and the GRAVE; if you believe HIS WORDS, you become a SON OF GOD.
Christ is THE WORD OF JUDGEMENT, and the FIRE (a metaphor and symbol) that does the JUDGING.
Judges 6:21 And the angel of the Lord (Christ) put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touch the FLESH (dust of the earth) and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up FIRE out of the ROCK (symbolic of Christ) and CONSUMED the FLESH (dust of the earth) and unleavened cakes ......
Christ was the FIRE in the bush in the wilderness, he was the ROCK in the wilderness.
Hebrews 12:29 Our God is a CONSUMING FIRE
Christ is THE WORD
Your being JUDGED NOW BY the WORD and FIRE, and if you will JUDGE YOURSELF NOW; by God's words, you want be judged with the world.
1 Corinthians 11:31 If we would judge ourselves NOW, we should not be judged.
John 12:48 .... the words I have spoken (from Genesis thru Revelation), the same will judge him .....
The spelling of Esaias that you see in Matthew 3:3, as well as other places in the New Testament (such as Matthew 4:14, John 12:38, Romans 9:27, etc.), is because the KJV translators preferred to record Isaiah's name as it's written in Greek (since the NT was written in that language). Whereas in the Old Testament, Isaiah is written as shown, the equivalent of the Hebrew, Ysha'yah (pr. yeh-shaw-yah), which means 'God (Yahweh) is salvation'.
JESUS IS THE ONLY HUMAN WHO WAS AND IS TOTALLY RIGHTEOUS IN ALL OF HIS WAYS
This is because He is the one and only Son of God and Son of Man. He incarnated Himself (as God the Son) into a human body prepared for Him by the Father in Mary. From conception on, Jesus was fully God and fully man in one Person, the Person of the
Son of God. He is the only Incarnated Being in all of creation. Being indwelt with the Holy Spirit is not an incarnation as it is two persons inhabiting one body, the believer and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit's presence in the believer is not natural to mankind since the fall, but one of the wonderful blessings promised by Jesus, our Saviour. With Jesus, it is one Person, (the Son) taking upon Himself fully a human nature with a body, soul, and spirit. When one looks at Jesus one sees The Son of God in a fleshly body, not the Son of God overtaking an already existing human's body. And because of the unity of the Persons of the Godhead, Jesus could say, if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father ( John 12:45; John 14:9).
Before creation and before all time, the three members of the Godhead existed in complete joy, love, and unity. Together They willed to create a universe that would include heavenly spirit beings and beings made of matter. The heavenly beings and humans are the two groups of beings that were created to have relationship with the Godhead. Before creation, the Godhead decided that They would create both heavenly beings and humans capable of disobeying Him. Satan was the first to sin, being lifted up with pride, attempting to become equal with God and to usurp Him so that the heavenly hosts will worship him instead of their Maker. As many as one third of the angels followed after Satan into sin. God knew this would happen. He already planned not to offer salvation to fallen angels, but prepared the lake of fire for them to spend all of eternity when they are judged. ....
"Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour."
Three hours as the Spirit records it intends the darkness as a sign independent of natural cause of a solar eclipse. The number Three decidedly favors the spiritual darkness enveloping in their rejection of the Son; by the same token we have another sign, of graves letting out their contents as though in protest; The torn veil of the temple is a symbolic act as the word of God fulfilling as in the case of the hour of darkness that had now taken over the land. Jesus was correct in the timing. "I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me./But all this was done, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled." (26:55-56) The word of God zeroed in, that the Word become flesh could not have missed. (To digress a little, obedience of Jesus Christ was perfected in letting the word of his Father work with him.)
The voice came from heaven and in the Gospel of John Jesus explains it clearly. "Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes."( John 12:30). It was while he was alive. By the same token the death of the Son could not have passed on without some visible signs of it. There are so many strange signs and bizarre light and sound show in the sky. What does the man on the street say,"UFO sighting." His reasonable mind wants to hitch his mind to anything however silly it may be. But he rejects any suggestion that rejecting the word concerning shall have serious consequences. The mind of the centurion who witnessed the events, was much more of noble cast. " they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God."(v.54) Consider the chief priests and the Pharisees who would hush up his resurrection, what was their mind like? (vv.62-66) Do you think the modern churches shall disband their churches or abjure their heresies in the face of truth revealed?
I work with the Word of GOD, and I have already answered your questions several times.
I work with the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, don't you understand? Two thousand years ago the Word Himself was made flesh by the NAME of JESUS, yes, by the NAME of JESUS, as He promised to His people through the prophets- Hebrews 1:1-3, as I have said in answering your questions. But you are masked by a pretense, and you pretend have not seen, your lack of interest in the Word of GOD reveals who really dominates your life.
I reapeat. I work with the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD Himself, don't you understand? Why do you not understand my speech? It's because you are unable to hear the true and pure Word of Truth. Your lack of interest in the Word of GOD reveals who dominates you your life.
I repeat. I work with the Word of GOD, and I have already answered your questions several times, but not according your evil and disguised spirit, for the Word of GOD -the Word is GOD Himself- recommends saying: Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like unto him-Prov.26:4. And the Word states that "when the fool speaks pleasantly, believe him not / don't trust him: for there are SEVEN abominations in his heart. And my Lord JESUS clearly revealed, saying: Luke 11:23-24 and 26:
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
Furthemore, my Lord JESUS left very clear, saying: John 12:47-48:
If any man hear my words, and believe not, I Judge him not: for I came not to Judge the world, but to save the world. But already hath one that Judgeth him:...
Get ready
"He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake./Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me."
"For his name's sake" is what holiness does. Holy is his name as Mary would cry out inspired by it is doable. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father./And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son./ If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it." John 14:12-14)
Manufacturing names gave the nation of Israel something to crow about which simply meant nothing since holiness of their names did not go deeper to be 'be holy for I am holy." Their heart was not right that they observed the minutiae of the requirements of Law without knowing the fulfillment of the Law was represented in the Son whom God had sent.They rejected him proving that their heart was estranged all along. A no better example we need seek than the time God gave the nation of Israel the decalogue. "And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die."(Ex.20:19). Jesus was among them when a voice from heaven spoke. "Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again./The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him./Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes."( John 12:28-30) God had judged their hypocrisy.
Holiness of name is doable and a clear proof of it is in the glory it sheds."I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do."(17:4) Jesus Christ in his humanity finished the work proving it was doable.
Part two
Vs 5 The plan of God, predetermined glory, Jesus knew the Scriptures. All that was to happen to Him and the glory He would receive after He suffered on the cross had already been spoken by the prophets in the past tense as though they had already happened.
As Jesus was on the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:25-26, He talks about them not believing what the prophets had written about what was to happen to Jesus. The first man to be raised from the dead in a glorified body and God placed Him on His right hand on the throne a man, not a god.
Jesus was a man who was tempted like us and fulfilled all His Father asked Him we see hundreds of prophecies Jesus fulfilled and the man Jesus did it without one sin. Only a man could undo what the first man did. God could not do that because He cannot sin or die. The law was made for man and the curse of sin was on man, not God.
In Verses 20-22, Jesus had not yet been crucified and the glory the Father had given Him Jesus has given it to us today "but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;" This glory we will receive when Jesus returns and we are resurrected in our glorified bodies, we have it now, but it will not be manifest until Jesus returns.
If Jesus was a co-equal God in the three-person God, how could He be given anything He would already have it? Malachi 3:6 says God does not change so God cannot change, Numbers 23:19 Isaiah 46:10 Psalm 33:11 Acts 17:26 The glory Jesus was asking for, He would receive when He resurrected.
The Spirit could not be given because Jesus had not been glorified (resurrected) John 7:39 Things were hidden from the disciples until Jesus was glorified (resurrected) John 12:16.
2 Timothy 1:9-10 It was given before creation so, John 17:24 we will be where He is when we are resurrected, Jesus was given glory with the Father before all creation in God's mind and plan. Ephesians 1:4
I hope this makes sense I am not the best at this.
God bless,
RLW
Ex.12:1-6
And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,/ This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
God spoke to Moses in the land of Egypt. Before the children of Israel could claim the Promised Land 'this month' signified altogether a new walk with God. When He says, 'Now is the day of salvation' it is God's Time. It is thus we look at the spiritual significance of a new year. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new (2 Co.5:17)".
Their observance of Tisri was after the traditions of their fathers. Not so with God.
Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house'(12:3)
'A lamb for an house' is highly significant.' On the tenth day, which entails a time lapse. The house or the nation the symbolism of the lamb remains consistent with the slain Lamb before the foundation of the world. It is the emblem for Salvation Plan in the divine Will through ages. What does the numberTen signify? Ten is a full hand or measure. It has another significance, under the Law: judgment
The Passover day also coincided with Joshua (Hellenized form of the name is Jesus) leading the people, "And the people came up out of Jordan on the tenth day of the first month, and encamped in Gilgal, in the east border of Jericho (Josh.4:19)". Here is another: And Christ, our Paschal Lamb, on this day entered Jerusalem, riding on an ass; the people bearing palm branches, and crying, Hosanna, ( John 12:12-13).
Thank you for this discussion, it is good to hear salvation is not dependent on this doctrine I have been told in many Churches I have attended I was not saved and was a heretic and shunned.
You know Greek better than I, but my understanding is the word Godhead which was added in the 1500s was translated twice and is misleading. Godhead is in the Bible 3 times, Acts 17:29, Greek word theios which means divine, Romans 1:20, Greek word theiotes which means divinity, divine nature, and Colossians 2:9 Greek word Theotetos which means deity.
The verse Colossians 2:9, in Jesus, dwelleth all the fulness of the deity of God, Jesus was filled without measure with God's Spirit/Holy Spirit John 3:34. John the Baptist said God had told him when Jesus was anointed/baptized John 1:32-33. God dwelt in Jesus and empowered Him by the Spirit. God gave Jesus power and authority Matthew 11:27. In John 1:14 we probably differ, God in Jesus dwelt/tabernacled among us. God was manifest in Jesus, John 12:49 John 14:10.
Mark 2:5-8 in Matthew 11:25 Things were hidden from the wise and prudent, Scribes, Sadducees, and Pharisees were the ones accusing Jesus of blasphemy, as we see in Matthew 9:6-8, the same event multitudes glorified God. Jesus was given full authority in Matthew 28:18 and John 17:2-3 that we should know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the Father sent, same as all the introductions, greetings, and blessings given to the followers of Christ in the New Testament were from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ and in Revelation 21:22.
All authority has been given to Jesus by the Father until the last enemy, death is put under His feet, 1 Corinthians 15:25-28 Revelation 20:14.
May our discussion inspire study.
God bless,
RLW
John 12:49] For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
[50] And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Speaking of Judgment,JESUS said"the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net,that was cast into the sea,and gathered of every kind:Which,when it was full,they drew to shore,and gathered the good into vessels,but cast the bad away-Mat.13:47-48 compared with Mat.25:30.
Paul said:"For we must all appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ;that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done,whether it be good or bad-2Cor.5:10.
JESUS said: John 12:47-48:->47 if any man hear my words, and believe not,I Judge him not:for I came not to judge the world,but to save the world.48 He that rejecteth me,and receiveth not my words,hath one that Judgeth him:the WORD that I have spoken,the same shall Judge him in the last Day(seventh and last Day,seventh and last millennium.Well,it already arrived)
JESUS is in heaven now and is sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.He will not come here again except to caught His people to the new heavenly place( Luke 20:35-36 combined with 1Thes.4:15-17),but it is necessary to have lamp and oil, otherwise will be lost for ever.But Judgment will be given to the saints of the most High;the time came that the saints shall possess the kingdom,and they shall take away the dominion,to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom and dominion,and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven,shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,and all dominions shall serve and obey him-Dan.7:22&26-27.
And Peter said:The time is come that Judgment must begin at the house of GOD:and if it first begin at us,what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of GOD?And if the righteous scarcely be saved,where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?1Pe.4:17-18
JESUS warned,saying:at midnight there was a crie made,Behold,the bridegroom came;go ye out to meet him,they that are ready go in with him to the marriage:the door shall be shut.
There are different places in the prophecies that say Christ will pour out the same plagues that were poured out on the Egyptians.
But, they want be LITERAL as they were in Egypt.
Hail mingled with fire was one of the plagues in Egypt, as was frogs.
Ezekiel 13:11 ....oh great hailstones shall fall, and a stormy wind shall rend it....
Ezekiel 38:22 And I will plead with him with pestilence and blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon many people that are with him, and overflowing rain, and great hailstone, fire and brimstone.
Isaiah 30:30 And the Lord SHALL CAUSE his glorious voice (his word) to be heard, and shall show the lighting down his arm, with the indignation of his anger, and with the FLAME of a devouring FIRE, with scattering, and tempest and hailstones.
So all these are SYMBOLIC of something that is going to judge God's people, as did the plagues judge the Egyptians.
John 5:22 ... God hath committed all judgement to the Son ...
So these symbols of judgement are symbols of Christ, and Christ is the Word, and the WORD(S) of God JUDGES US.
John 12:48 ... the words that I have spoken, the same words will judge you .....
Isaiah 28:2 Behold the Lord has a mighty and strong one (the WORD), which as a tempest of HAIL and a destroying storm, as a flood of mighty waters, shall cast down to earth with the hand
Isaiah 28:3 The crown of PRIDE .....
Isaiah 28:5 In that day (of judgement when one believes God's word) the Lord (the WORD) shall be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty,unto the residue his people.
Isaiah 28:8 But they (the residue of his people) have also ERRED THROUGH WINE (explained in other scriptures, but is not alcoholic wine), and through strong drink (not alcohol) are OUT OF THE WAY (Christ is the way) .... they err in VISION and stumble in JUDGEMENT.
I will continue in a second comment on the frogs.
God BLESS YOU!
you have not understood what I wrote. No; I do not agree with your interpretation of these Scriptures. I do agree with your understanding of these modernization of the Scriptures.
It's only God's Spirit that can lead us into the riches of the treasures of God's Wisdom & Understanding for His Name Sake.
This is by Grace / Light 2Cor 4:6,7
This is what Jesus meant in John 12:44-50 John 6:63 Rev 19:10
The Word of God speaking in the heart, that's near us, the Word of Faith that Paul preached.
Who rides a white horse, who is Faithful & True, with a two edged sword coming out of His mouth, & in Rightousness He doth judge & make war against the principalities & powers of darkness in heavenly places within our heart.
And whosoever receive Him in this manner, receive power to become the sons & daughters of God.
and whosoever don't will remain in their sins, no matter how high a profession or form of godliness without the Power.
Lev 26:15-21 God is speaking to His people, the history of the children of Israel full of this. 2 Chronicles 7:14 Jeremiah 3:22 Hosea 6:1,2
Christ brings this into the NT John 12:40 Acts 28:27
Hebrews 12:5-11 speaking of His children
He does this in His merciful lovingkindness to us, we being so blinded by the deceitfulness of sin, it must be scourge out, define as "to flog" lit or fig, God as a father chastising and training men as children by affliction,
Chastisement; Education or training; by implication, disciplinary correction, chastening, instruction, nurture.
There's two kinds of fear, & many manifestations of each, all grounded in one of the two, godly fear which foundation is grounded in obedient reverential love for God.
The other, Satan counter part, grounded in disobedience which brings torment, where condemnation & guilt in one's own heart follows them wherever they go, for they have offended the Holy God; they having continue in disobedience to the Grace of God which appears in their hearts.
God's love in chastising correction, cast this fear & torment out
& why? John 14:21, which defines love, which makes way for John 14:23 one's habitation becomes a dwelling place for Perfect Love in the work of Sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience & sprinkling of the Blood/Life of Jesus.
thus "for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness.
Hebrews 12:11 exercising the Grace of God, the Word of Righteousness in discerning between Good & evil,, there's suffering in the Cross to learn righteousness. 1Pet 4:1
Then we have Job, who God said is perfect, Job 2:3; which trials, suffering & afflictions is of a much higher concept than punishment for disobedience, James 5:11
Hebrews 11:33 for this purpose "obtain a better resurrection"
one eighty, you would do well to live out your call name.
your in darkness, deceived; dwelling, speaking & judging falsely against God
Ephesians 5:13, therefore, Ephesians 5:14
In Love & Truth
While speaking of the unpardonable sin against the Holy Ghost it is as though coming from Trinity. (Matt.12:31-32). 'Therefore I say unto you' in v.31 is from the Son and the following verse is from the Father. This coming from the Holy Ghost would go against his own narrative mode. In the Gospel of John Jesus speaking about the Holy Ghost speaks thus," Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.( John 16:13). 'He shall not speak of himself'. For this reason it is implied that the Trinity is witnessing the unpardonable sin is accounted on anyone who disregards the warning.
There is a time lapse, which is not because God is slow in hearing the prayers of a saint. The Holy Ghost the third office organizes the will of God according to the Word so the timing is perfect. In Daniel's case the angel of his Presence had to attend what changes in the light of his request. "The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia," (Dan.10:13-ESV).This mode of parenthesis ought to inform the length breadth and depth of Power and Wisdom of God.
The intent of the word wide web also throws light on the Law. "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple."(Ps.19:7) Jesus obeyed the will of his Father and it was not only in big events like his death and resurrection but in obedience to the word. Marriage at Cana has this" "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come."( John 2:4), and this, "Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready." ( John 7:6). "And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified."( John 12:23)
Let's step back and think for a moment. What is heaven exactly? Surely a large factor there is that we will SERVE God forever.
John 12:26 says in KJV: If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
Let us examine the same verse in the amplified version:
If anyone serves Me, he must [continue to faithfully] follow Me [without hesitation, holding steadfastly to Me, conforming to My example in living and, if need be, suffering or perhaps dying because of faith in Me]; and wherever I am [in heaven's glory], there will My servant be also. If anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.
I am not an expert on translations but it would seem eternally serving God is a theme here! Revelation 7:13-15 and Revelation 22:3 make this abundantly clear as to the serving of God eternally of His saints. Worship is also inextricably tied to being a servant; and the ruling and reigning with Christ is part and parcel with the destiny of the church as Kings and Priests before the throne as well ( Revelation 5:10; etal).
Now as we assess this life; surely we see this attitude of service begins here; and Christ of course laid out the perfect example with His life. Mark 10:45 shows how Christ came not to be served but to serve; if God incarnate followed that principal surely His disciples must do the same.
As to work in heaven; surely it won't be a drudgery. The curse with the thorns and sweat on the brow will be gone that we inherited in the garden. We won't have unreasonable taskmasters; stressful deadlines; and other difficulties. Work no doubt will be a cooperative effort since we will all be together in performing tasks. No doubt individual things will be suitable for us as well.
The world at large cannot serve without some benefit for themselves; just like we can't love unconditionally (see Matthew 5:34).
The last enemy destroyed is deateh (1COR15:26
Mode of Signs up/down or mid-air (2of 2)
Judgment on Babylon (Is.13:1-3,12) present God shaking a hand, " Shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles (Is.13:2)".
An abstract idea of anger of the Lord God is translated into a physical act. So raising a banner is synonymous with the battle cry. It is always done before the opposing army so the standard of the army is to be seen by all; especially for the cohorts for whom colours are invested with a feeling, consequently a morale booster.
Up, down or mid-air
The Spirit has arranged the narrative on the basis to glorify the Son. This is what St Paul speaks of his fullness: "For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.(Col.1:16-17; John 1:3
So the body that God has prepared before the worlds began (He.10:5) naturally creates a frame of reference wherever such diverse things for example, rock, water bread are mentioned.
As mediator he is positioned in mid-air in death ('And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself- John 12:32-NIV). From the narrative of the Father the Spirit sets down the pole with brazen serpent to counterbalance so the cross serves as symbol for his intercessory role upholding both heaven and the earth. (See under A- Ark of Noah)
Jesus died and preached the gospel to the captives. "What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?(Ep.4:8-10-NIV)"
His appearance second time shall be in mid-air.
The sign of the fleece of "Behold, I will put a fleece of wool in the floor; and if the dew be on the fleece only, and it be dry upon all the earth beside, then shall I know(Ju.6:37)." This dew is a symbol holiness of God expressed as mercy. The fleece is significant and the symbol refers to the slain Lamb as well.
Next day the sign that Gideon asked for was just the reverse, "Let me prove, I pray thee, but this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew./ And God did so that night: for it was dry upon the fleece only, and there was dew on all the ground. (Ju.39-40)" Redemption by the blood of Jesus serves as a sign for Gideon while it (dew on the ground) explains Jesus as 'the Savior of the world'. In Jesus we are hidden in Christ while in body.
This sign holds yet another great spiritual truth as to the bodies we shall put on in the day of regeneration. After death the term 'spiritual bodies' explains the process in which the inner man with the indwelling Spirit is part of the body of Christ at the day of regeneration.
This shall explain the significance of this verse "Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion(Is,8:18)". Israel is a stand in for New Jerusalem as Adam is a stand in for last Adam in eternity.
The Spirit organized the entire God document where the mode of inversion is the norm. Thus God framed worlds of the Spirit (invisible) and what is seen is the world of the body. God sends his Son to the world so whosoever received may reign with him in heavenly place. He chose the foolish things to confound the wise is yet another. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit." ( John 12:24) "So also is the resurrection of the dead."(1 Co.15:42-46)
Isaiah 9:6 his name shall be called does not make him what the name is many Hebrew names have God in them. Jesus says He came in His Father's name.
John 1:1-4 What is the beginning that John is referencing here? Is this the beginning/creation or is this John's prologue of his gospel, the beginning of Jesus's ministry, as in Luke 1:2 or 1 John 1:1? The word of God was in Jesus for everything Jesus said was not His words but the Father's words who sent Him, John 4:16 John 12:49 John 14:24.
Jesus was the Tabernacle of God; God was manifested in Jesus, and this is the light that shined. The light that shined was eternal life 1 John 1:2. This life was given to the Son from the Father John 5:26 and we can have this gift through Jesus Christ our Lord Romans 6:23. Jesus proclaimed the Father, the Father was the Word which was proclaimed to the world, and the Word was God. In Revelation 19:13, Jesus's name is the Word of God.
John 10:30 John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: As God and Jesus are one through Jesus we also can be one in unity and purpose.
John 14:9 The Father was in Jesus by God's Spirit everything Jesus did and said was from the Father. This is what Jesus is telling them in verse 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
I understand we differ, and this doctrine is deeply rooted, I do not want to offend anyone. I have studied the creation of it, and it was as much or more political than Scriptural, especially considering the number of lives that were taken because of it.
God bless,
RLW
No, I do not mind. I understand the Trinity doctrine is deeply rooted, and I do not want to offend. But this doctrine was placed equal in value with there is only salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ. Without this doctrine one cannot be saved, please let me know if that is wrong.
My understanding, God cannot sin, and God cannot be tempted, Scripture is clear God sent His only begotten Son not Himself, John 3:16. Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit without measure to do all the miracles, and the work Jesus was sent to do by the Father. John 8:29 John 12:44 John 14:24.
Jesus humbled Himself, Phil. 2:8 Jesus was made flesh for the suffering of death, Heb. 2:9. Jesus was tempted the same as we are, Heb. 4:15. Jesus was born under the law, Gal. 4:4. Jesus fulfilled the law that only flesh could do. If he was not able to sin He could not fulfill the law, it would be a farce, God could not fulfill a law He wrote for man, man had to fulfill it. Matt. 12:28 Luke 4:1 John 3:34
Everlasting in Isaiah 9:6 it is the Hebrew word ad that means perpetuity a bond or a contract without an end, forever. We both agree God is eternal no beginning or end, but the Son is begotten/brought into existence before anything not created. When that was? Scripture only covers from the beginning.
Isaiah 9:6 Some things have been debated some say it was about Hezekiah. I feel it is about Jesus, but it could be looked at, as part of it about His first coming and part of it when He sets up the kingdom on earth. The titles or names in this verse, and how we understand them.
"His name shall be called" Many Hebrew names have God in them but that does not change who they are and mean they are God. The name is a vehicle to express things of God, it is the power of the name. and we see this through scripture. God was manifested through His Son, 1 John 1:1-2. That was what Jesus was saying to Philip in John 14:8-11. Jesus said; "the works that I do in my Father's name."
God bless,
RLW
For example, we know that Satan was already with sin & banished from God's Presence right at the time of the creation of man & woman ( Genesis 3:14,15, where Satan had used an animal to tempt man to also become like him & his quest to be like God). And Ezekiel 28:12-15, of Satan who infected the King of Tyrus to also usurp the Throne of God (see also Isaiah 14:12-15, where Satan also used the Babylonian king). Yet, we read that Satan still had access to Heaven, whereas Revelation 12:7-9 tells us that only after the "war in Heaven", Satan & his angels lost the battle, & was cast down to the Earth for all time.
So, in my cautious understanding, Satan no longer has access into Heaven, though in some way he still manages to bring accusation before God against those who belong to Jesus. But Satan & his work were judged at the Cross ( John 12:31), and though his work continues to tempt & blind the hearts of men since then, he knows his time is short ( Revelation 12:12), that in a future day he will be confined in the abyss ( Revelation 20:2,3), & at the end of the Millennium period, be locked away forever in the Lake of Fire ( Revelation 20:10). This is how I try to piece it all together - though not without conjecture or error.
You quote Job 39:12 and you assign the "seed" to being the word of God. What you are doing is 'spiritualising' a statement of God to Job that was a literal question being put to Job by God that required from Job a literal answer. As Job had none aren't you being somewhat presumptuous here in your claims as to what the seed and the barn mean? An illustration of God's questioning of Job is shown in the verses below:
Job 39:1 "Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth [their offspring]? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve? 2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil [their gestation]? or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?"
Anyone can spiritualise scripture to make it say whatever they want it to say - but it doesn't mean that it is true. Therefore, I reject what you say about this verse.
In regards to your view on John 12:24, although Jesus compares Himself to a grain of wheat as you say, His death was aimed to bring "many sons to glory" ( Hebrews 2:10) through the new birth ( John 3:3-8). Jesus could not establish a glorious church on Earth through His people unless He died and was glorified ( John 7:37-39; Acts 2:33; Eph. 1). Christians today are expected to die as Christ did - but NOT in the physical sense but in the spiritual sense:
- In this, we are to crucify our 'Old Man' nature until "he" is DEAD - Romans 6:6.-
- If we haven't, then spiritually speaking, God sees us as "walking in the flesh" ( Romans 8:1, 7).
However, if we are truly "born-again", we will share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with others so as to bring more lost souls into God's kingdom. By doing this, we (as being that "corn of wheat) will then "...bringeth forth much fruit" - meaning, the lost souls into God's kingdom through personal evangelism, "...some [corns'] an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. 9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear!" ( Matt 13:3-9).
That's how I see it, Plaintalk.
I never said nor believed you complained to administration, others read your comments and can react to those comments.
We are ALL the BODY of Christ, by the resurrection of Christ, ALL have become ONE, even our prodigal sons, even though they have not AS YET come to that truth, they will be DRAWN back to CHRIST.
God speaks of things that ARE NOT, as if they ALREADY ARE.
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, I WILL draw ALL MEN unto me.
Genesis 18:14 ... at the TIME APPOINTED, I will return to thee, according to the TIME of LIFE ....
John 14:6 I am the way, the truth and the LIFE.
God Bless YOU
Matthew 13:30 Let them grow together (the wheat and the tares) ......but gather the wheat into the barn ....
Job 39:12 Wilt thou believe him (a prophecy of the Messiah), that he (Christ) may bring home the SEED (the word of God), and gather it (the word of God)(the SEED)(the WHEAT)(all symbols of CHRIST) into the barn (a symbol of the TEMPLE)
John 12:24 ... except a corn of WHEAT (SEED)(word of God)(CHRIST) fall into the ground (the grave)and DIE, it (Christ)(the WORD)(the SEED) (the WHEAT) abideth alone, but if it (Christ, the SEED, the WORD, the WHEAT) DIE, it (CHRIST) bringeth forth much FRUIT.
Wheat makes more WHEAT, Christ makes MORE CHRIST.
Ephesians 4:4 ..... ONE body .... ONE Spirit ....
John 17:22 .... that they may be ONE as we are ONE ......
Christ ONLY was raised from the DEAD.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they DIED ANYMORE: but they are EQUAL to the ANGELS, being the children of the RESURRECTION.
Isaiah 63:9 ... and the ANGEL of HIS PRESENCE SAVED THEM ....
God bless you.
God did create hell as well; but originally it was meant for the Devil and his angels. ( Matt. 25:41). Clearly; men enter in there because they are following their master; namely Satan rather than God. Therefore; all things work out for the good for those who love God ( Romans 8:28); but conversely; there is no peace for the wicked ( Isaiah 48:22; other passages).
Those who truly know Christ have already gone from darkness into light ( 1 Peter 2:9; etal). We also are able to escape any of the second death ( Rev. 20:7). It is in men's hearts where the god of this world has blinded them; not in the physical realm at this time ( 2 Cor. 4:4). Therefore the darkness of spiritual blindness is basically the essence of evil; so in that sense if we aren't careful what we consider light is really darkness ( Luke 11:35).
Deuteronomy 29:29 shows how we can't fathom God's hidden counsel.
Prophecy was inextricably woven throughout all phases of Jesus' ministry. The Parables had hidden truths on His return; the fate of the Apostles and the future end time events were emphasized in Matthew 24; and His role of God in the flesh was brought to the attention of the Pharisees as well as to those who would worship Him recognizing His Divinity. In this regard; of course hell was discussed more than heaven including the real account of Lazarus and the rich (unnamed) man in hell.
It is truly remarkable to see how the miraculous signs and wonders were unable to wake anyone up to the truth who God didn't elect. Such is the case with the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Such is the case in Luke 16:31. In fact; when we consider the Crucifixion and Resurrection even clear evidences weren't enough to convince the Roman officials and those in power. This is abundantly clear from Matthew 28:13 where the soldiers were actually paid for "sleeping on the job" when such an offence by law would be a death penalty certainty. Men will go out of their way to lie; just as we saw with Lazarus being raised by Christ they saught to kill him and Christ because of their insane jealousy of His authority ( John 12:9-11).
In all of this we shouldn't avoid seeing the big picture. Christ in all of His ministry only did the Father's will ( John 8:28; 38; John 12:49). His exaltation; therefore and claims to Diviity were never self serving; but whowed God's plan. Somehow Christ would condescend to being a man; and have a life of sorrow and suffering ( Isaiah 53); then He would take on the sins of all His elect and be our atonement; dying on the cross and rising victorious. EXERCISING His authority would be after God grants it to Him ( John 28:18). He voluntarily emptied Himself of this authority so God could renew it (Phillipians 2:5-8).
Christ knew all men's hearts. We can say that all things were done in the Spirit by Him.
Christ has already come & that in Spirit, He told His disciples; Mark 9:1; Matt 16:28; over 2000 yrs ago, which came in full power at Pentecost.
I will not leave you comfortless, but you will see me again, that your joy maybe full, & Christ doesn't come alone, He brings His Father within Him, They became Ephesians 2:22; John 17:21-23; & they Micah 4:3;
Hebrews 9:28; is Titus 2:11; diffusing the fragrance of His knowledge in every heart. 2Cor 4:6 This is Titus 2:13; describing His 2nd appearance in Spirit. Who continually gives of Himself that Titus 2:14;
As for this son of perdition; it's the old Adamic nature that is rule by Ephesians 6:12; who's coming 2Thessalonians 2:9; this spirit works even deceive the very elect, who, we all must engage with within 2 Cor 10:3-5; Jesus says; Matt 15:18,19; for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, so their within us. Think about this, we all have these thoughts spring up within us, 1 Pet 4:3; thus Jesus commands; Luke 14:27; The ones, Satan does deceive is explain, 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12; they refuse to believe the Witness, whom God has place within conscience. John 16:8; John 12:47-50; Jesus says, 8:24; Therefore were He has gone one cannot go.
Both seeds are spiritual, both kingdoms are within mankind.
This rapture theory John 17:11:15 "not to take them out of the world". But describes receiving 1Pet 1:5-9;The cumulation is the Baptism of the Holy Spirt, describing 2 Cor 10:6; resulting from Titus 3:5; by 1Pet 1:23; unto John 3:3; the chaff, ( old man sin nature is thoroughly purges out without a trace, Daniel 2:34,35; these earthen vessels, 1Cor 15:48,49; ) the wheat (new man created in the image of Him that created him) is gather unto the Gardener, we're His & He's ours, Acts 1:9-11; Daniel 7:13;
It's a spiritual encounter & habitation with the One true God, John 17:24; here & now, Acts 4:32,33;
Do you perceive the wonderous honor & glory of God's Great Salvation, on earth as it is in heaven.
Part 1
Did not know it was Messiah the King in Dan. 9:25, whether that would matter, we know He is King.
I have enjoyed this discussion because of its importance not on salvation but for those who will be living when the end starts. This 70th week, if it is in the future or if it has been fulfilled in the past makes a world of difference in what people are expecting to happen.
If the 70th week is in the future there will be the 7-year pre, mid, or post-tribulation as taught, but if it has been fulfilled in the past that would make that false. What outcome would that have on those who are here?
Daniels people, the lost sheep of Israel, Matt. 10:5-6 did not reject Him, it was the corrupt rulers of Jerusalem and the temple, Luke 16:14-15 whose eyes were blinded and Jesus cried over it Luke 19:39-44. Many of them believed in Him but would not confess Him, John 12:42. Jesus the Messiah had to be cut off/sacrificed, Psalm 22:16-18 Isaiah 53:8-12 to atone for sins, Dan. 9:26.
If the priests and leaders of Jerusalem had received Jesus as their Messiah and had not conspired with the Romans to crucify Him, there would be no atonement sacrifice for the salvation of the Jews first and also to the Greek/Gentiles, it was God's plan.
Daniel 9:25-27 is a precise prediction of when Jesus would come and be anointed. In the scripture from Matthew to Acts 8:4-5, there is strong evidence without assumption of a 7-year amount of time from the anointing of Jesus the Messiah and His 3.5-year ministry/confirming the covenant to the lost sheep of Israel, Daniel's people.
His crucifixion in the middle and 3.5 more years the gospel was to only the lost sheep, Daniel's people by Jesus through His apostles, thousands were saved, then the death of Stephen, and the gospel going to the Gentiles, to make the Jews jealous, the branch broke off, but still offered to the Jews.
See Part 2
About Judas, it is true that we don't know much about him apart that he eventually became a thief and kept stealing money from the bag ( John 12:6), so it seems he had some issues with money. I have also heard those theories about Judas but I don't know where they rely on, in which writtings.
I am sorry about your sons. My son also left the faith when he was 15, now he is 20, although he was born in the church. But we must trust God that He will eventually find a way to draw them back. This is a promise to believers, remember what Paul and Silas said to the guard in Philippi, Acts 17:31, "And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, AND THY HOUSE.". There isn't much we can do on our own apart from praying and talking to them, if and when they wish to hear. I know very many cases of parents who didn't quit and insisted in praying about their kids and finally saw marvelous results. So be encouraged.
Now about the belief of OSAS I believe they found a method to overcome all those cases we see in the Bible, about believers who mess their salvation up, but also cases in the real life. The method is called "not truly saved". What does that mean? I know people who believed, were born again, lived a sanctified life for years, sacrificing many things for their faith, like their fame, even their job, they lost friends and relatives but sometime in their lifes for their own reasons they decided to go back to the sinful world and live as before. Weren't they truly saved? So what were they doing all those years in the church? What for? Were they masochists? Because being a christian means mainly sacrificies in every aspect of your life.
In the parable of the prodigal son we see a happy end, but in real life the end is not always happy. I always have in mind a couple such cases in my church. People who I met and had companionship with them for a long time.
2 Peter 3:7
Brother David has made several comments about God's words being parables.
You have said God's words are often metaphors.
Revelation says his words are symbols.
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and earth ....
There are LITERAL heavens and earth; but, they are also metaphors and symbols in a parable.
heaven and earth are MAN, earth being the carnal form of man where deception rules, heaven being the born again man where truth and life rule.
We are the GARDEN OF (eden) GOD where the ONE TREE that bears BOTH the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL is in the MIDST thereof.
Man; made of EARTH (dust), has to be destroyed, and become a creation of Spirit, the new heaven and new earth.
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and earth, which are now, by the SAME WORD (that made them earth) are keep in store (since the day or resurrection) reserved unto fire against the day of JUDGEMENT ...
For you and I and all others alive at this given moment; we are being JUDGED by the written word's of God, if you don't believe his words: DEATH and the GRAVE; if you believe HIS WORDS, you become a SON OF GOD.
Christ is THE WORD OF JUDGEMENT, and the FIRE (a metaphor and symbol) that does the JUDGING.
Judges 6:21 And the angel of the Lord (Christ) put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touch the FLESH (dust of the earth) and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up FIRE out of the ROCK (symbolic of Christ) and CONSUMED the FLESH (dust of the earth) and unleavened cakes ......
Christ was the FIRE in the bush in the wilderness, he was the ROCK in the wilderness.
Hebrews 12:29 Our God is a CONSUMING FIRE
Christ is THE WORD
Your being JUDGED NOW BY the WORD and FIRE, and if you will JUDGE YOURSELF NOW; by God's words, you want be judged with the world.
1 Corinthians 11:31 If we would judge ourselves NOW, we should not be judged.
John 12:48 .... the words I have spoken (from Genesis thru Revelation), the same will judge him .....
God Bless YOU!
This is because He is the one and only Son of God and Son of Man. He incarnated Himself (as God the Son) into a human body prepared for Him by the Father in Mary. From conception on, Jesus was fully God and fully man in one Person, the Person of the
Son of God. He is the only Incarnated Being in all of creation. Being indwelt with the Holy Spirit is not an incarnation as it is two persons inhabiting one body, the believer and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit's presence in the believer is not natural to mankind since the fall, but one of the wonderful blessings promised by Jesus, our Saviour. With Jesus, it is one Person, (the Son) taking upon Himself fully a human nature with a body, soul, and spirit. When one looks at Jesus one sees The Son of God in a fleshly body, not the Son of God overtaking an already existing human's body. And because of the unity of the Persons of the Godhead, Jesus could say, if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father ( John 12:45; John 14:9).
Before creation and before all time, the three members of the Godhead existed in complete joy, love, and unity. Together They willed to create a universe that would include heavenly spirit beings and beings made of matter. The heavenly beings and humans are the two groups of beings that were created to have relationship with the Godhead. Before creation, the Godhead decided that They would create both heavenly beings and humans capable of disobeying Him. Satan was the first to sin, being lifted up with pride, attempting to become equal with God and to usurp Him so that the heavenly hosts will worship him instead of their Maker. As many as one third of the angels followed after Satan into sin. God knew this would happen. He already planned not to offer salvation to fallen angels, but prepared the lake of fire for them to spend all of eternity when they are judged. ....
continued