"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."(v.3)
Towards the end of his earthly ministry Jesus in his prayer to his Father refers to ' thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word." Whosoever consequently abides in him having no confidence in his flesh has faith and also kept the word." the latter part constitute the works which are impossible without the Savior Lord.( John 15:3) Now Jesus speaks he has finished the work, "I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do."(17:4,6)
From the key verse we know that preparing a place in heaven constitutes as work so as he glorified his Father on earth he has certain unfinished work. Even there we are part of his works so 'that where I am, there ye may be also."
Heaven and earth are part of the everlasting covenant. So everlasting gospel must be seen and understood as pendent to this covenant which is part of the divine Will of the Father and shall not change. The Law is eternal forever settled in heaven,(Ps.119:89) and as such heaven must be set in terms of the Law of the Spirit.
Jesus refers to the sheepfold in John 10:1 and here we are examining what possible works he might do so the nature of heaven may be placed under correct context as fulfillment of the Abstract in seven days. "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."(10:16)
Law of sin applies to the world of the Spirit and the son of perdition, collectively applied to children of wrath or disobedience. "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."( 1 John 3:8) Death is the work of Satan. "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
Pride of Satan will not allow him to be one among many." I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." He would usurp the place of the Son himself. God made angels spirit so technically a son of God. The angelic revolt in heaven to create an alternate narrative to the Salvation Plan as we may surmise from this verse, "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."(Ge.6:2) Without the simplicity of obedience how ludicrous was their plan to create a 'holy' family?. This also throws some light on the separation of light from the darkness. (Ge.1:4)
"Shall go in and out" When Jesus Christ is the door sheep may go in and out. "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." Going in and out can be understood at two levels. God gave the revelation of his Son "and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.". The angel belongs to the sheepfold in the world of the Spirit. Similarly "And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel."(1 Chr.21:1) Hence this warning from St Paul,(Gal.1:8)
Our struggle is with spiritual wickedness in high places, refers to the world of the Spirit, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Full armor of God refers the one sheepfold in which we have rested from our own labors and are hid in Christ. So our battles are fought in the world of the Spirit. This also explains why Jesus instructed his disciples, "and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one".( Luke 22:36). "Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me" speaks for one world. The sword is badge of an overcomer in the world of the Spirit.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber."
Jesus emphasizes here and he refers to the devil explicitly. How did he beguile Eve but through subtility and through the serpent? 2 Co.11:3. In the passage Jesus refers to the sheepfold which has only one door. This discourse is with reference to the world of the Spirit so a natural pastoral setting is also giving its spiritual underpinning. So God has called whosoever shall be adopted into the fellowship of God with Man, and collectively they make up one sheepfold which can be called witnesses. Cloud of witnesses and sheepfold in short refers to the divine Will of God. So Jesus as the Word become flesh refers to them as the sheep entrusted them with him. "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.:(10:29)
From Re.12:4 the red dragon, "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth." . So when Jesus says "Many are called, but few are chosen we may get an idea as to how subtle the devil is in upsetting the Salvation Plan of God. (Matt.22:14) St Paul's fear was for the saints who were called and given an example in the Son,"so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ," is in particular about the doctrinal purity the church is able to uphold. In their failure it has serious effect upon the world of the Spirit. This is how we ought to view Christian Living.
Conversely we have an event, building of the tower of Babel, which for instance is the replay of the angelic revolt in heaven. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:"(Is.14:13-15) Purity or simplicity that is in Christ said,"Lo I come to do thy will," On the other hand Satan challenges,"I will."
Mount Zion founded in Zion is a fortress. The sorrows of death compassed the Psalmist yet he could say "The Lord is my rock, and my fortress" and what is our certainty? Is it not that he conquered death and he is the author and finisher of our faith. He refers to the valley of the shadow of death. Before us we have a cloud of witnesses, many martyrs ahead of us,"being destitute, afflicted, tormented;/(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth/ And these all, having obtained a good report through faith,"(He.11:37-40) The earth is a vale of tears for those who have no hope beyond this world of shadows. "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me." It is thus we look at the two worlds of the Spirit and of this body.
" My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:/ And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand./My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."( John 10:27-29)
Christian Living is walking by faith having no confidence in flesh but in our Savior who opened the way for us to follow. "Thy follow me" is his trust. So Living is in capital to distinguish from those Christians who walk after the earthly things.
A wise deacon in our church has stated that we are in enemy territory currently on earth. Our state prior to salvation was an enemy of God as we were blinded by the god of this world to do his bidding ( 2 Cor. 4:4). Despite what may be assumed by some; there are numerous descriptions of hell in the Old Testament. There are also references to heaven and the Millennial reign of saints ( Psalm 61 seems to be a veiled reference to David in that capacity; for instance). We see also in the famous passage in Job 19:27 which alludes to a bodily resurrection where he will see God. Psalm 63:9 is another reference to hell; in sending enemies to the "lowest parts of the earth." As much as we may not comprehend these eternal truths; Proverbs 8:36 states that "all who hate me love death." (see also John 3:19-21 and 1 John 2:11).
Jesus makes it clear that He is the only way to salvation in John 10:9 and many other passages state the same thing; often in parables. Those who are not enlightened to this truth often have some scripture knowledge, but they can only see general statements about living a righteous life or see descriptions of God and only see God from afar; much as the Israelites did when wandering through the wilderness. Somehow man's myopic perspective focuses on characters in the Bible and considers those who were a prophet; or a "good teacher" and not understanding who is truly good; that is God alone ( Mark 10:18). This is why the man called Christ good in that passage; he was only seeing Him through human lenses rather than His true position as God in the flesh which only God Himself can reveal to someone ( Matt. 16:17).
These truths explain why man underplays his spiritual condition; he sees outer works and judges himself on them; and that based on his own set of scales weighing in his heart the "good vs. the bad"; ignoring God's perfect Holy standard. Worse still; he is blind to his sin NATURE which can only be changed God's way
You are giving a great highlight about JESUS's work, and quoted John 10:16, that says: Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold (the Gentiles): them also I MUST bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. In my vision, JESUS was speaking of His Universal work bringing the Gentile people to salvation according the plan of GOD the Father in to create one Universal fold and one Universal Shepherd.
There is an wonderful and wise interpretation of Paul Apostle, saying to the Church of Ephesians 2:12-18
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without GOD in the world:
13 But NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For He is our peace, who hath MADE BOTH ONE, and hath BROKEN DOWN the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the Law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that He might reconcile both unto GOD in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (the Gentiles), and to them that were nigh(the Jews).
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. - Hallelujaaaah!!!
This psalm is set from two standpoints. "The Lord said unto my Lord," refers to the Father Son relationship which is how we ought to approach this reverential psalm so God a Spirit represents the world of the Spirit. (Ps.110:1) In the night vision of Daniel the Ancient of days fit that part and the one like unto the Son of man (he came with the clouds of heaven-Dan.7:13)presented before him has this cloud in attendance. (He.12:1)
These witnesses are called by God before the worlds began and given to the Son. "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." ( John 10:28). This cloud refers to a flock and it is to which David refers. The Ancient of days works from his fiery throne (7:9)so the Psalm 110 can be now put in proper perspective. "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool./TheLordshall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies." (vv.1-2) When he sent his only begotten Son to the world the fiery wheels of his throne of flaming fire did not stop turning. "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."( John 5:17) explains a continual action. The word of God is in control.
The fiery wheels of God ever turn slowly so the Son may ever rule in the midst of thine enemies. In this context the message to the church of Philadelphia promises them an open door."behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it." While the churches are persecuted,- there were broadly ten persecutions, Jesus Christ assures them deliverance so they could every one of them say, "The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want."(23:1) Before we study the doors in heaven vis a vis heart as a door this psalm shall fit our purpose to study two worlds of the spiritual bodies and of our vile bodies subject to evil of our times.
In transition we shall study this psalm verse by verse. (To ne continued)
"My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." If Jesus says he has to finish his work we can be certain how he does it shall be to perfection to which we are in full agreement. This is what faith with works would mean.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." ( John 14:12) We know that Jesus ascended to his Father for a reason and His promise of a helper was to enable us to do much more by abiding in him. "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."(10:16)
Jesus sets an open door before the church of Philadelphia. Similarly he is seated on the right hand of God so what he says is as,"he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;"(3:7). It evokes his promise as the Son of man, "Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."(Matt.18:18). This is how we ought to view of our authority as abiding in our Savior Lord. Our Faith with works is to say Amen to His sovereignty over our bodies, both spiritual bodies as well as mortal bodies So what Jesus meant by finishing his works is it not feeding our spiritual bodies as well? Only when Christ seated on the throne says, "It is done" his works shall be finished.(Re.21:6a)
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.(v.22). All his promises are for saints called to be overcomers. "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."( John 10:16) This is also part of his work.
Lastly in v.21 we have two thrones mentioned referring to the throne of God and of the Lamb.(Re.22:1)
The knock mentioned here is different from this verse."Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:"(Matt.7-8) Jesus here mentions the door to salvation. " and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." The next verse sets this in context. "Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?" Jesus is referring to his Father who is in heaven while what Jesus refers in the key verse is the door to the heart of a believer who is saved but is yet to be counted as an overcomer.
The Lord is my shepherd (Ps.23:1) In the Gospel of John we see the same idea put in context of the Father Son relationship. Jesus as the Word become flesh is the Good Shepherd so when he claimed, "I am the way" it explains why his Father sent him to the world. "But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep."( John 10:2). So his authority is as that of the legitimate, the only one whose actions are taken in truth."I am the truth" explains this aspect As the faithful witness and true he promises to all seven churches, where he stands. He demands his rightful place in their heart, a spiritual space, representing the face upon which the Spirit moved before the commencement of the creation. "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.(Ge.1:2b)
"if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (3:20)
In the Matthew quote, salvation dealt with ask, seek and knock. The door accordingly opened a straight and narrow path for the seeker to find his pasture. Here Jesus Christ in his majesty offers a supper set in an intimate one to one basis."I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." This pasture is doing the will of God so meat and drink refers a life in heavenly places. "My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work."
I suppose a question thread isn't kosher with a sequel. Anyway; there are many scriptures that can be used to point out each part of the TULIP acronym; for instance T-Total Depravity We could quote Jeremiah 17:9; O-Unconditional Election ( Ephesians 1:4); L-Limited Atonement ( John 10:26-27); I-Irresistable Grace ( Acts 9:3-6 the "Damascus Road" experience) and finally P-Perseverance of the Saints ( Romans 8:30).
Many of these themes are interchangeable with the verses quoted. The terminology isn't the greatest; as people can indeed grieve the Spirit as scripture indicates. I believe limited atonement is also the hardest thing to prove; I would say that "Effectual grace" is a much better term.
I wrote what I did in the first posting on purpose as many tend to have a sort of pride about which Reformer is their favorite or obsess on the subject making a doctrine be above the author and finisher of our faith Christ Himself. We can't fit our theological premise neatly with all scriptures in human understanding. I take; for example the politically incorrect stance that free will doesn't intimidate God with His predestination plans. There are distinct advantages to understanding these doctrines however.
1. It explains why those in our families and others we are close to and hear the Gospel for years never become believers.
2. It shows how God draws His elect from before a confession of faith (preserves our lives until coming to salvation) for believers.
3. It allows us to "test ourselves to see if we are in the faith" ( 2 Cor. 13:5) so that we can indeed claim His promises as something we actually possess because of a saving faith rather than "decisional regeneration" a term where people make a confession but their hearts are not in it.
I mentioned on an old posting how a small group split because God grants repentance ( 2 Tim. 2:25; etal). Some didn't want to preach the need to repent; although God grants the desire we must bear fruit and change our ways
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I LAY MY LIFE DOWN for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold (the Gentiles peoples): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth MY FATHER LOVES ME, because I LAY DOWN MY LIFE, that I MIGHT TAKE IT AGAIN.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I LAY IT DOWN OF MYSELF. I HAVE POWER TO LAY IT DOWN, and I HAVE POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN. This COMMANDMENT have I received of my Father.
RED APPLE TREATY 4 ME ONLY on Psalms 10 - 1 year ago
"LORD, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear:" Psalms 10:17 KJV
Answer:
"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10 KJV
You will life!
The LORD shall and if you have faith you will hear according to scripture Psalms 10:17
After creating man God blessed them:" And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth" (Ge.1:28)", "Be fruitful" was a divine command.
(See under A-Abstract)
In the Parable of the Barren Fig Tree "Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?"( Luke 13:7). The Spirit refers to the Son with the number Three. The parable therefore is about believers, which are unproductive. The fig tree unable to produce fruits of the Spirit represents them.
In the Parable of the Sower birds eat up some seeds falling on the wayside, and some are unfruitful owing to the condition of the ground. The evil one is the destroyer that can prevent the word of God from becoming fruitful. The same destroyer is the enemy who scatters tares in a field while men slept. Deceitful riches can choke the heart, which is compared to a field. Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil.( 1 John 3:8)
Satan is the destroyer, whose deceit upset the order that God had created for Adam. He is also a thief who dares not come by the door. For this reason he beguiled Eve through a serpent. "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy."( John 10:10,1)
Re.12:10-17KJV 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven (heaven?Eph.1:3.Take a look), Now is come salvation, and strength,and the Kingdom of our GOD,and the power of His Christ:for the accuser of our brethren is cast down,which accused them before our GOD day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,and by the word of their TESTIMONY;and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice,ye heavens(heavenly places in Christ JESUS-i.e. the celestial environments of the Old and New Testaments),and ye that dwell in them-the believers-.Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel)and of the sea!(sea/waters=peoples,and NATIONS,and multitudes of all tongues-Gentile peoples-which were deceived by that old serpent that deceives the whole world)for the Devil is come down unto you,having great wrath,because he knows that he has but a short time.13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth(from the heaven- Isaiah 14:12-15),he persecuted the woman...
14And to the woman were given TWO WINGS of a great eagle(the Old Testament and New Testament-two witnesses of GOD- Revelation 11:3-4.Take a kook),that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place,where she is nourished(by the Old and New Testaments-the Word of GOD,the Scriptures)for a time,and times, and half a time,from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman(be careful,don't drink of that water),that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth(144K of Israel- Revelation 7:1-10 and 14:1-5.Take a look)helped the woman(the Lord's Church- John 10:15-16),and the earth opened her mouth,and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. -The testimony of Christ is the Spirit of prophecy-Re.19:10 combined with Ro.8:9-11.GET READY
At the fall of Jericho Achan secretly appropriated some of the spoils of war to himself, disregarding that these were dedicated to the Lord. Joshua had before the battle declared " And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing,.., and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it."(Josh.6:18). Because of his sin Israel lost the following battle of Ai, and the reason was revealed to Joshua from the Lord. Achan and his family were stoned to death and their bodies along with possessions were burned in the valley of Achor. (See entry below-Achor)
(Is.65:10). What does the Spirit aim at with the example of Achan? A disciple' forsaking all for the kingdom of heaven' is to treat appropriating other man's riches as foolhardy as that of Achan. Foolish ministers of our times who espouse prosperity belong to who St Paul would classify as 'reprobate concerning the faith'. (2 Ti.3:7-8)
Achor, the valley of
"A place for the herds to lie down in." (Is.65:10,9) The valley of despair becomes a place for the shepherds to take ease. For Israel it also points a door of hope. (Hos.2:15) Jesus Christ is that door. " I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."( John 10:9)
"What shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" In the parable of Jesus the merchant man seeking goodly pearls found one pearl. "When he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it."(13:45-46). The one pearl is Jesus Christ who gave himself as the man who found it in the Son who gave himself for him. A merchant trades thus giving up certain advantages and it applies both parties. The transaction is also fair since the soul of man is the 'inner man' or man child'. Since God breathed into Adam and made him a living soul his fallen state allowed the law of sin into the bloodstream of the world. Conversely when we received Jesus Christ as our Savior we came under the Law of the Spirit. There is no more condemnation applies to our soul. When Jesus the Good Shepherd speaks"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."( John 10:28).
Faith in Jesus Christ connects every believer so our soul is in his safekeeping. This is what faith with works mean. The Abiding life brings the Father also into the equation. I and my Father are one.( John 10:27-30)When we put on spiritual bodies our individual souls are represented by Trinity.While we groaned 'earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven, ' our souls were being strengthened in our inner man by the indwelling Spirit. "For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life./Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit." (2 Co.5:1-5)
Serving God and mammon is what the heathens do. They will have to account for what they did to the soul. "the heart of the wicked is little worth."(Pr.10:20) Choose life as did the merchant in the parable, "And whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."
Please don't misunderstand my comment to the two scriptures you used in this discussion. I won't say if I believe in soul sleep or being in God's presence immediately but I do want to say in these scriptures, I believe, that Jesus was saying in John 11: 25-26 and John 10: 27-28 simply that once someone is saved they have eternal life promised them and will be with Him when He is ready for them to be, whether sleeping first or going right away. Whether He meant it one way or another the promise of eternal life is what matters. God Bless :)
The word sent forth by God shall prosper in the very thing it was sent.(Is.55:11). The Spirit is narrating events from the perspective of the Gospel of God that we need conclude the quality of the disciples that Jesus sent out to preach "And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand."(10:7). God the Sower has sown into the field and with the expression the kingdom 'is at hand' the Spirit is referring to the gathering of sheaves." This kingdom does not come with observation but it is within the heart which is knowable. The Pharisees wanted to know 'when' and Jesus replied ( Luke 17:20-21) Truth written in the heart is a witness and shall condemn those who go by appearances and those who walk by sight.
In understanding these chapters we need reorient our observation in terms of faith and the eternal Word. Firstly we shall take up the answer given Jesus to the disciples of John,"Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:/The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them." Before Jesus we read that Namaan was healed; raising the dead has been done before Jesus. "And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet."(2 Ki.13:21). Before the eternal Word the prophets like Elias, Elisha are interchangeable with Jesus in terms of the Power and Wisdom that Word become flesh signifies. John did no miracle but his testimony was true.( John 10:41-42). Jesus was reminding obliquely that John had missed how he was tied up his own ministry according to the Gospel. " For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee."(11:10)
Wisdom here figuratively signifies the house built by her and founded on Zion.(Pr.9:1) All her children were born for the Father's mansions and it is his Gospel that justifies them. Their generation covers only their circumstance in the visible world of flesh and blood. John's generation was was one such but John was sanctified at his birth because the eternal Word set him a sign, as the Messenger to the Son. As with John so with his disciples.
Jesus sent his disciples as sheep which is significant. God as the Shepherd of souls is one aspect of the word which is eternal. Jesus applied it to himself. "I am the Good Shepherd." He and his Father are one because it is the Power of God that makes salvation of his associates secure. "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand./I and my Father are one."( John 10:11,28-30). All those who were called thus were in the divine Will even before the foundation of the world. The Spirit places the word 'behold' to indicate that the eternal Word had justified the Son who of God has become wisdom. Consequently Jesus sent them that the Power shall deliver them from all eventualities."Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."(10:16)
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."(Col.2:16-17).
Vv.15-17
The Word makes John interchangeable for Elias as every associate sent by the Gospel is stand in for other. This is what is meant by Wisdom is justified of her children. The v.15 used by the Spirit as a tag tells Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever". The same tag we find after mention of seven churches in Asia Minor.
You are correct, our salvation does not depend on whether we believe in "soul sleep" or "soul death" as opposed to the continuance of the soul as alive after the death of the body. So it is still good to discuss it if we use Scripture as our guide ad rule.
I am encouraged by the words of our Savior and Lord in John 11:25-26
"I am the resurrection and the life. He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER die. Believest thou this?"
Jesus knew that people from that time forth would certainly die physically as to their bodies dying, just as those who lived before him died in the body. But here He says that, though the body dies, we still live on. He is speaking of our soul's continued existence after the body dies. Can't be any clearer than this. He asks a good question: Believest thou this? I believe what He says here and look forward to being alive with Him when my body dies and to see those believers who have died before I die and those who die after I die. We will have a great reunion in the life to come. We have eternal life in Jesus as believers and so this means our soul will not die but will be reunited with our bodies when our bodies are resurrected.
Also John 10:27-28
"My sheep hear my voice (in this life), and I know them, and they follow me. And I five unto them eternal life and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."
So good to know that we have eternal life now, even if we die, we live on, not in our bodies, but in our soul and spirit, until the resurrection when our bodies will join with our soul and spirit once again and then be forever alive.
I agree with most of what you said except your "once saved always saved" interpretation. John 10:28 says "And I gave them eternal life and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand". So isn't the issue who is REALLY saved and if so, only God knows.
John 10:34- seems to be a popular verse here. People want to believe they are a god, is that what's happening here? That would be a gross misinterpretation. You know this is a quote with a question mark at the end, right? Let's be honest about it. Here's the commentary for that:
Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?
As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?
God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV
You: Word was "NOT" God?
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV
Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?
Isaiah 7:14 -
Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)
I am sorry you do not believe what God has said in scripture in the citations I gave you.
Is. 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and His redeemer the LORD of Hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is NO God."
vs. 8
"Fear not, neither be afraid; have I not told thee from that time, and have declared it? Is there a God beside me? yea, there is NO God, I know not any." And God does know all things, so we cannot be gods.
Is. 45:5
"I am the LORD, and there is NONE else, there is NO God beside me..."
vs. 18
"I.... am the LORD, there is NONE else."
vs. 21
"..there is NO God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is NONE beside me."
Is. 46:5
"To whom will you liken me, and make my equal, and compare me, that we may be like?"
vs. 9
'Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is NO else, I am God, and there is NONE like me."
In just Isaiah, God says over and over again that there is only one God in all of creation, and HE ALONE is this sole God. There are no other gods, no other for us to call gods because other gods do not exist in reality, only in the imaginations of one's minds and in the images we create or the men we idolize, even ourselves.
Earl, you can quote the few verses that speak of men being gods, such as Ps. 82:6 and Jesus reference to this verse in John 10:34 and the reference to Moses being "as" God to Pharoah in Exodus 7:1 all you want, but the meaning of these verses is that the judges and Moses were representing God before other men, not that they are actually gods in their nature because He has made it abundantly clear that He is the ONLY God that exists.
Earl, those of us who say that the view that we are gods is heresy say so on the basis of what I have explained about the verses you quote and the verses where God says He is the ONLY God. To profess belief that men are gods is heresy. It is usurping God as the sole God of all creation. It breaks the 1st commandment.
But Christ SAID, men would believe the words of other men, before they would believe his words, and his words WILL NOT return unto him VOID, but will accomplish that which I please.
We have been this route before many times and many others on here have given you many Scriptures that repute your position that in actuality we are gods.
Psalm 82:6 is speaking of the judges appointed over Israel when they had possessed the land. God is judging these judges as being mere men, not gods. He is mocking them because they dealt corruptly with the people. If they truly were gods they would not have cheated widows and orphans, preferred the cause of the rich, profited from their position, nor been flippant towards God and His requirements of them to 'stand among the people in His place' (thus the term of calling them gods). God was not proclaiming that these judges were in fact gods, but that those who are appointed to judge others are to judge as if God were judging through them. Jesus refers to this passage after He declared that He was one with the Father ( John 10:30) and the leaders wanted to stone Him for making Himself God. He quotes this Psalm as a rebuttal, not to affirm that the judges were in actuality gods, but that, if the leaders accept that Scripture as true, why would they be offended if He calls Himself the Son of God and one with God. He was calling the leaders out on their double mindedness and lack of understanding of the Scriptures though they knew them backwards and forwards.
Earl, God has stated so many times that He alone is God and there are no other gods, even though man may call idols gods or men gods. Just because man may consider idols or men gods does not make them gods.
There is only one God. And He is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and no others. He has forbidden making any gods of our own, whether idols or persons.
Your preoccupation with being a god is concerning. Why not humbly accept that we are mere humans created to be humans forever, though we are adopted as children of God through Jesus, not by our own constitution or nature, but by the grace and wisdom of God.
Since it seems you responded to my post I will respond to you. I have never reported anyone on this site or advocated for anyone to be banned. If the administration determines that someone should not be allowed to post then that is their prerogative.
The veracity of whether Jesus is God or not is not a matter of how many people believe it is true or not. Biblical truth is not determined democratically by consensus of the majority or minority. True doctrine is determined by what Scripture says to be true.
Even though billions of Christians believe Jesus is God does not make it true.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....'
John 1:14
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us , full of grace and truth; we beheld his glory, as of the ONLY Son of the Father."
John 10:30 Jesus says,
"I and the Father are one"
Just in these few verses we have Scripture stating that Jesus is God and is that the Father and Son are one together, though distinct persons.
Later on in John 14:16-17, Jesus says that He will ask the Father to send the Spirit. Thus naming EACH Person in the One God.
I think that true doctrine is important and beneficial to believers and that false doctrine is corrupting to a believer. That is why I speak out concerinng doctrine that is opposed to revealed truth in Scripture, especially doctrine concerning the identity, character, nature and work of our Savior.
Jema, I respect that you do wish to ignore or pass over postings that do not agree with your viewpoint.
And I respect that you prefer to speak what you believe without having others speak in disagreement of what you state as your beliefs.
This is a discussion forum, primarily, and not simply a place for people to post their beliefs without expecting a response. But each of us engage on this forum as we see fit as we prayerfully consider what others post and seek the Lord's guidance in how or if we respond to a posting.
Re.11:4 - These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. (Whatsoever is more than these or is added comes of evil).
The two olive trees
are to produce oil for the two candlesticks.
They are the Old and the New Testaments-i.e. the Word of GOD-, the Word is GOD, understand? John 1:1
The two candlesticks
are two Churches: The Jewish Church - Hebrews 12:23; and Gentile Church: John 10:16
For example: Revelation 1:20 - ... the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches (of Asia).
Who will be in the scenary from now on or in this end of the time is Michael, a prince of the LORD sent by JESUS as the God of the earth (as Moses was sent as the God of Pharaoh), he appeared to John in the midst of the seven candlesticks as one like unto the Son of man. Now he will be in the midst of the two Churches -TWO CANDLESTICKS as above cited- and to the TWO OLIVE TREES above cited WILL BE(IS)given Power to shut heaven that it rain not in these days of THEIR prophecy: and have Power over waters (OVER PEOPLES, AND NATIONS, AND MULTITUDES OF ALL TONGUES-FOR HE THAT IS ABOVE IS ABOVE ALL- John 3:31-36) to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. The Word is GOD, self-executing, understand?
The crux of the matter is that REAL miracles as well as Godly living in Christ Jesus WILL result in persecution and suffering. Such are scriptural concepts ( 2 Timothy 3:12 and other passages). The religious spirit of the Pharisees I am sure still is in operation and thus; hatred will result in true miracles as well as true salvation messages involving repentance and calling sin for what it is.
This would include preaching against ALL sin; including pride and hypocricy of individuals and society at large.
The threat against all of Satan's carefully networked aspects of society are many. Those who proclaim Christ are an economic threat; so a genuine conversion that starts to affect this system will bring imprisonment; no doubt. We see this now with the Pro Life movement; and indeed anything that gains any momentum attempting to restore traditional values. This is by no means unique to one particular political party or members of the establishment. There is economic gain to wars; like it or not by powers that be; just as there is influence by caving into popular concepts today where businesses are willing to forego economic sanity to position themselves with the world as others pull the strings.
We present Christ today; sadly often as a God of our imagination. We may have a vacuum that only God can fill but some never will seek it; and we are ALL enemies of God before salvation. Bringing the church down to the world to fill pews is backwards; we should challenge those who would follow Christ with the requirements of being a disciple and warnings of dangers of falling away for those who would glibly make a confession without counting the cost. Looking at Christ makes it clear; with the exception of the 12 Disciples He never actively sought others; but would often weed out those not willing to forsake all for Him. He had no place to lay His head; let alone a fancy building to preach in. The Son of Man came not to be served ( Mark 10:45)
"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."(v.3)
Towards the end of his earthly ministry Jesus in his prayer to his Father refers to ' thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word." Whosoever consequently abides in him having no confidence in his flesh has faith and also kept the word." the latter part constitute the works which are impossible without the Savior Lord.( John 15:3) Now Jesus speaks he has finished the work, "I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do."(17:4,6)
From the key verse we know that preparing a place in heaven constitutes as work so as he glorified his Father on earth he has certain unfinished work. Even there we are part of his works so 'that where I am, there ye may be also."
Heaven and earth are part of the everlasting covenant. So everlasting gospel must be seen and understood as pendent to this covenant which is part of the divine Will of the Father and shall not change. The Law is eternal forever settled in heaven,(Ps.119:89) and as such heaven must be set in terms of the Law of the Spirit.
Jesus refers to the sheepfold in John 10:1 and here we are examining what possible works he might do so the nature of heaven may be placed under correct context as fulfillment of the Abstract in seven days. "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."(10:16)
Law of sin applies to the world of the Spirit and the son of perdition, collectively applied to children of wrath or disobedience. "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."( 1 John 3:8) Death is the work of Satan. "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
Pride of Satan will not allow him to be one among many." I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." He would usurp the place of the Son himself. God made angels spirit so technically a son of God. The angelic revolt in heaven to create an alternate narrative to the Salvation Plan as we may surmise from this verse, "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."(Ge.6:2) Without the simplicity of obedience how ludicrous was their plan to create a 'holy' family?. This also throws some light on the separation of light from the darkness. (Ge.1:4)
"Shall go in and out" When Jesus Christ is the door sheep may go in and out. "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." Going in and out can be understood at two levels. God gave the revelation of his Son "and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.". The angel belongs to the sheepfold in the world of the Spirit. Similarly "And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel."(1 Chr.21:1) Hence this warning from St Paul,(Gal.1:8)
Our struggle is with spiritual wickedness in high places, refers to the world of the Spirit, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Full armor of God refers the one sheepfold in which we have rested from our own labors and are hid in Christ. So our battles are fought in the world of the Spirit. This also explains why Jesus instructed his disciples, "and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one".( Luke 22:36). "Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me" speaks for one world. The sword is badge of an overcomer in the world of the Spirit.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber."
Jesus emphasizes here and he refers to the devil explicitly. How did he beguile Eve but through subtility and through the serpent? 2 Co.11:3. In the passage Jesus refers to the sheepfold which has only one door. This discourse is with reference to the world of the Spirit so a natural pastoral setting is also giving its spiritual underpinning. So God has called whosoever shall be adopted into the fellowship of God with Man, and collectively they make up one sheepfold which can be called witnesses. Cloud of witnesses and sheepfold in short refers to the divine Will of God. So Jesus as the Word become flesh refers to them as the sheep entrusted them with him. "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.:(10:29)
From Re.12:4 the red dragon, "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth." . So when Jesus says "Many are called, but few are chosen we may get an idea as to how subtle the devil is in upsetting the Salvation Plan of God. (Matt.22:14) St Paul's fear was for the saints who were called and given an example in the Son,"so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ," is in particular about the doctrinal purity the church is able to uphold. In their failure it has serious effect upon the world of the Spirit. This is how we ought to view Christian Living.
Conversely we have an event, building of the tower of Babel, which for instance is the replay of the angelic revolt in heaven. "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:"(Is.14:13-15) Purity or simplicity that is in Christ said,"Lo I come to do thy will," On the other hand Satan challenges,"I will."
Mount Zion founded in Zion is a fortress. The sorrows of death compassed the Psalmist yet he could say "The Lord is my rock, and my fortress" and what is our certainty? Is it not that he conquered death and he is the author and finisher of our faith. He refers to the valley of the shadow of death. Before us we have a cloud of witnesses, many martyrs ahead of us,"being destitute, afflicted, tormented;/(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth/ And these all, having obtained a good report through faith,"(He.11:37-40) The earth is a vale of tears for those who have no hope beyond this world of shadows. "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me." It is thus we look at the two worlds of the Spirit and of this body.
" My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:/ And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand./My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."( John 10:27-29)
Christian Living is walking by faith having no confidence in flesh but in our Savior who opened the way for us to follow. "Thy follow me" is his trust. So Living is in capital to distinguish from those Christians who walk after the earthly things.
A wise deacon in our church has stated that we are in enemy territory currently on earth. Our state prior to salvation was an enemy of God as we were blinded by the god of this world to do his bidding ( 2 Cor. 4:4). Despite what may be assumed by some; there are numerous descriptions of hell in the Old Testament. There are also references to heaven and the Millennial reign of saints ( Psalm 61 seems to be a veiled reference to David in that capacity; for instance). We see also in the famous passage in Job 19:27 which alludes to a bodily resurrection where he will see God. Psalm 63:9 is another reference to hell; in sending enemies to the "lowest parts of the earth." As much as we may not comprehend these eternal truths; Proverbs 8:36 states that "all who hate me love death." (see also John 3:19-21 and 1 John 2:11).
Jesus makes it clear that He is the only way to salvation in John 10:9 and many other passages state the same thing; often in parables. Those who are not enlightened to this truth often have some scripture knowledge, but they can only see general statements about living a righteous life or see descriptions of God and only see God from afar; much as the Israelites did when wandering through the wilderness. Somehow man's myopic perspective focuses on characters in the Bible and considers those who were a prophet; or a "good teacher" and not understanding who is truly good; that is God alone ( Mark 10:18). This is why the man called Christ good in that passage; he was only seeing Him through human lenses rather than His true position as God in the flesh which only God Himself can reveal to someone ( Matt. 16:17).
These truths explain why man underplays his spiritual condition; he sees outer works and judges himself on them; and that based on his own set of scales weighing in his heart the "good vs. the bad"; ignoring God's perfect Holy standard. Worse still; he is blind to his sin NATURE which can only be changed God's way
Bennymkje
You are giving a great highlight about JESUS's work, and quoted John 10:16, that says: Other sheep I have, which are not of this fold (the Gentiles): them also I MUST bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. In my vision, JESUS was speaking of His Universal work bringing the Gentile people to salvation according the plan of GOD the Father in to create one Universal fold and one Universal Shepherd.
There is an wonderful and wise interpretation of Paul Apostle, saying to the Church of Ephesians 2:12-18
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without GOD in the world:
13 But NOW in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For He is our peace, who hath MADE BOTH ONE, and hath BROKEN DOWN the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the Law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that He might reconcile both unto GOD in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (the Gentiles), and to them that were nigh(the Jews).
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. - Hallelujaaaah!!!
This psalm is set from two standpoints. "The Lord said unto my Lord," refers to the Father Son relationship which is how we ought to approach this reverential psalm so God a Spirit represents the world of the Spirit. (Ps.110:1) In the night vision of Daniel the Ancient of days fit that part and the one like unto the Son of man (he came with the clouds of heaven-Dan.7:13)presented before him has this cloud in attendance. (He.12:1)
These witnesses are called by God before the worlds began and given to the Son. "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." ( John 10:28). This cloud refers to a flock and it is to which David refers. The Ancient of days works from his fiery throne (7:9)so the Psalm 110 can be now put in proper perspective. "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool./TheLordshall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies." (vv.1-2) When he sent his only begotten Son to the world the fiery wheels of his throne of flaming fire did not stop turning. "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work."( John 5:17) explains a continual action. The word of God is in control.
The fiery wheels of God ever turn slowly so the Son may ever rule in the midst of thine enemies. In this context the message to the church of Philadelphia promises them an open door."behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it." While the churches are persecuted,- there were broadly ten persecutions, Jesus Christ assures them deliverance so they could every one of them say, "The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want."(23:1) Before we study the doors in heaven vis a vis heart as a door this psalm shall fit our purpose to study two worlds of the spiritual bodies and of our vile bodies subject to evil of our times.
In transition we shall study this psalm verse by verse. (To ne continued)
"My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work." If Jesus says he has to finish his work we can be certain how he does it shall be to perfection to which we are in full agreement. This is what faith with works would mean.
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." ( John 14:12) We know that Jesus ascended to his Father for a reason and His promise of a helper was to enable us to do much more by abiding in him. "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."(10:16)
Jesus sets an open door before the church of Philadelphia. Similarly he is seated on the right hand of God so what he says is as,"he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;"(3:7). It evokes his promise as the Son of man, "Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."(Matt.18:18). This is how we ought to view of our authority as abiding in our Savior Lord. Our Faith with works is to say Amen to His sovereignty over our bodies, both spiritual bodies as well as mortal bodies So what Jesus meant by finishing his works is it not feeding our spiritual bodies as well? Only when Christ seated on the throne says, "It is done" his works shall be finished.(Re.21:6a)
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.(v.22). All his promises are for saints called to be overcomers. "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."( John 10:16) This is also part of his work.
Lastly in v.21 we have two thrones mentioned referring to the throne of God and of the Lamb.(Re.22:1)
The knock mentioned here is different from this verse."Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:"(Matt.7-8) Jesus here mentions the door to salvation. " and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." The next verse sets this in context. "Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?" Jesus is referring to his Father who is in heaven while what Jesus refers in the key verse is the door to the heart of a believer who is saved but is yet to be counted as an overcomer.
The Lord is my shepherd (Ps.23:1) In the Gospel of John we see the same idea put in context of the Father Son relationship. Jesus as the Word become flesh is the Good Shepherd so when he claimed, "I am the way" it explains why his Father sent him to the world. "But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep."( John 10:2). So his authority is as that of the legitimate, the only one whose actions are taken in truth."I am the truth" explains this aspect As the faithful witness and true he promises to all seven churches, where he stands. He demands his rightful place in their heart, a spiritual space, representing the face upon which the Spirit moved before the commencement of the creation. "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.(Ge.1:2b)
"if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (3:20)
In the Matthew quote, salvation dealt with ask, seek and knock. The door accordingly opened a straight and narrow path for the seeker to find his pasture. Here Jesus Christ in his majesty offers a supper set in an intimate one to one basis."I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." This pasture is doing the will of God so meat and drink refers a life in heavenly places. "My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work."
Many of these themes are interchangeable with the verses quoted. The terminology isn't the greatest; as people can indeed grieve the Spirit as scripture indicates. I believe limited atonement is also the hardest thing to prove; I would say that "Effectual grace" is a much better term.
I wrote what I did in the first posting on purpose as many tend to have a sort of pride about which Reformer is their favorite or obsess on the subject making a doctrine be above the author and finisher of our faith Christ Himself. We can't fit our theological premise neatly with all scriptures in human understanding. I take; for example the politically incorrect stance that free will doesn't intimidate God with His predestination plans. There are distinct advantages to understanding these doctrines however.
1. It explains why those in our families and others we are close to and hear the Gospel for years never become believers.
2. It shows how God draws His elect from before a confession of faith (preserves our lives until coming to salvation) for believers.
3. It allows us to "test ourselves to see if we are in the faith" ( 2 Cor. 13:5) so that we can indeed claim His promises as something we actually possess because of a saving faith rather than "decisional regeneration" a term where people make a confession but their hearts are not in it.
I mentioned on an old posting how a small group split because God grants repentance ( 2 Tim. 2:25; etal). Some didn't want to preach the need to repent; although God grants the desire we must bear fruit and change our ways
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I LAY MY LIFE DOWN for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold (the Gentiles peoples): them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth MY FATHER LOVES ME, because I LAY DOWN MY LIFE, that I MIGHT TAKE IT AGAIN.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I LAY IT DOWN OF MYSELF. I HAVE POWER TO LAY IT DOWN, and I HAVE POWER TO TAKE IT AGAIN. This COMMANDMENT have I received of my Father.
Your reply reminds me of Saul encounter with the Lord on his way to Damascus in Acts 9:5.
"And he said, WHO ART THOU, LORD?
There seems to be a lot here in this question!
For one, Saul believe in God in the way he's presented in the OT as you said Brother Chris.
But yet he asked "WHO ART THOU, LORD" as he responds to the Lord's question. " Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
It seems immediately it came to Saul's mind the accusations against Jesus in John 10:33.
( Jesus answers Saul's question knowing position and beliefs in the only God Saul knew of)
"AND THE LORD SAID, I AM JESUS" whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
God bless
Answer:
"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10 KJV
You will life!
The LORD shall and if you have faith you will hear according to scripture Psalms 10:17
After creating man God blessed them:" And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth" (Ge.1:28)", "Be fruitful" was a divine command.
(See under A-Abstract)
In the Parable of the Barren Fig Tree "Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?"( Luke 13:7). The Spirit refers to the Son with the number Three. The parable therefore is about believers, which are unproductive. The fig tree unable to produce fruits of the Spirit represents them.
In the Parable of the Sower birds eat up some seeds falling on the wayside, and some are unfruitful owing to the condition of the ground. The evil one is the destroyer that can prevent the word of God from becoming fruitful. The same destroyer is the enemy who scatters tares in a field while men slept. Deceitful riches can choke the heart, which is compared to a field. Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil.( 1 John 3:8)
Satan is the destroyer, whose deceit upset the order that God had created for Adam. He is also a thief who dares not come by the door. For this reason he beguiled Eve through a serpent. "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy."( John 10:10,1)
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,and by the word of their TESTIMONY;and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice,ye heavens(heavenly places in Christ JESUS-i.e. the celestial environments of the Old and New Testaments),and ye that dwell in them-the believers-.Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel)and of the sea!(sea/waters=peoples,and NATIONS,and multitudes of all tongues-Gentile peoples-which were deceived by that old serpent that deceives the whole world)for the Devil is come down unto you,having great wrath,because he knows that he has but a short time.13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth(from the heaven- Isaiah 14:12-15),he persecuted the woman...
14And to the woman were given TWO WINGS of a great eagle(the Old Testament and New Testament-two witnesses of GOD- Revelation 11:3-4.Take a kook),that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place,where she is nourished(by the Old and New Testaments-the Word of GOD,the Scriptures)for a time,and times, and half a time,from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman(be careful,don't drink of that water),that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth(144K of Israel- Revelation 7:1-10 and 14:1-5.Take a look)helped the woman(the Lord's Church- John 10:15-16),and the earth opened her mouth,and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. -The testimony of Christ is the Spirit of prophecy-Re.19:10 combined with Ro.8:9-11.GET READY
Achan
Achan
At the fall of Jericho Achan secretly appropriated some of the spoils of war to himself, disregarding that these were dedicated to the Lord. Joshua had before the battle declared " And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing,.., and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it."(Josh.6:18). Because of his sin Israel lost the following battle of Ai, and the reason was revealed to Joshua from the Lord. Achan and his family were stoned to death and their bodies along with possessions were burned in the valley of Achor. (See entry below-Achor)
(Is.65:10). What does the Spirit aim at with the example of Achan? A disciple' forsaking all for the kingdom of heaven' is to treat appropriating other man's riches as foolhardy as that of Achan. Foolish ministers of our times who espouse prosperity belong to who St Paul would classify as 'reprobate concerning the faith'. (2 Ti.3:7-8)
Achor, the valley of
"A place for the herds to lie down in." (Is.65:10,9) The valley of despair becomes a place for the shepherds to take ease. For Israel it also points a door of hope. (Hos.2:15) Jesus Christ is that door. " I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."( John 10:9)
"What shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" In the parable of Jesus the merchant man seeking goodly pearls found one pearl. "When he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it."(13:45-46). The one pearl is Jesus Christ who gave himself as the man who found it in the Son who gave himself for him. A merchant trades thus giving up certain advantages and it applies both parties. The transaction is also fair since the soul of man is the 'inner man' or man child'. Since God breathed into Adam and made him a living soul his fallen state allowed the law of sin into the bloodstream of the world. Conversely when we received Jesus Christ as our Savior we came under the Law of the Spirit. There is no more condemnation applies to our soul. When Jesus the Good Shepherd speaks"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."( John 10:28).
Faith in Jesus Christ connects every believer so our soul is in his safekeeping. This is what faith with works mean. The Abiding life brings the Father also into the equation. I and my Father are one.( John 10:27-30)When we put on spiritual bodies our individual souls are represented by Trinity.While we groaned 'earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven, ' our souls were being strengthened in our inner man by the indwelling Spirit. "For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life./Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit." (2 Co.5:1-5)
Serving God and mammon is what the heathens do. They will have to account for what they did to the soul. "the heart of the wicked is little worth."(Pr.10:20) Choose life as did the merchant in the parable, "And whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."
The word sent forth by God shall prosper in the very thing it was sent.(Is.55:11). The Spirit is narrating events from the perspective of the Gospel of God that we need conclude the quality of the disciples that Jesus sent out to preach "And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand."(10:7). God the Sower has sown into the field and with the expression the kingdom 'is at hand' the Spirit is referring to the gathering of sheaves." This kingdom does not come with observation but it is within the heart which is knowable. The Pharisees wanted to know 'when' and Jesus replied ( Luke 17:20-21) Truth written in the heart is a witness and shall condemn those who go by appearances and those who walk by sight.
In understanding these chapters we need reorient our observation in terms of faith and the eternal Word. Firstly we shall take up the answer given Jesus to the disciples of John,"Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:/The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them." Before Jesus we read that Namaan was healed; raising the dead has been done before Jesus. "And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet."(2 Ki.13:21). Before the eternal Word the prophets like Elias, Elisha are interchangeable with Jesus in terms of the Power and Wisdom that Word become flesh signifies. John did no miracle but his testimony was true.( John 10:41-42). Jesus was reminding obliquely that John had missed how he was tied up his own ministry according to the Gospel. " For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee."(11:10)
But wisdom is justified of her children."
Wisdom here figuratively signifies the house built by her and founded on Zion.(Pr.9:1) All her children were born for the Father's mansions and it is his Gospel that justifies them. Their generation covers only their circumstance in the visible world of flesh and blood. John's generation was was one such but John was sanctified at his birth because the eternal Word set him a sign, as the Messenger to the Son. As with John so with his disciples.
Jesus sent his disciples as sheep which is significant. God as the Shepherd of souls is one aspect of the word which is eternal. Jesus applied it to himself. "I am the Good Shepherd." He and his Father are one because it is the Power of God that makes salvation of his associates secure. "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand./I and my Father are one."( John 10:11,28-30). All those who were called thus were in the divine Will even before the foundation of the world. The Spirit places the word 'behold' to indicate that the eternal Word had justified the Son who of God has become wisdom. Consequently Jesus sent them that the Power shall deliver them from all eventualities."Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."(10:16)
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."(Col.2:16-17).
Vv.15-17
The Word makes John interchangeable for Elias as every associate sent by the Gospel is stand in for other. This is what is meant by Wisdom is justified of her children. The v.15 used by the Spirit as a tag tells Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever". The same tag we find after mention of seven churches in Asia Minor.
You are correct, our salvation does not depend on whether we believe in "soul sleep" or "soul death" as opposed to the continuance of the soul as alive after the death of the body. So it is still good to discuss it if we use Scripture as our guide ad rule.
I am encouraged by the words of our Savior and Lord in John 11:25-26
"I am the resurrection and the life. He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER die. Believest thou this?"
Jesus knew that people from that time forth would certainly die physically as to their bodies dying, just as those who lived before him died in the body. But here He says that, though the body dies, we still live on. He is speaking of our soul's continued existence after the body dies. Can't be any clearer than this. He asks a good question: Believest thou this? I believe what He says here and look forward to being alive with Him when my body dies and to see those believers who have died before I die and those who die after I die. We will have a great reunion in the life to come. We have eternal life in Jesus as believers and so this means our soul will not die but will be reunited with our bodies when our bodies are resurrected.
Also John 10:27-28
"My sheep hear my voice (in this life), and I know them, and they follow me. And I five unto them eternal life and they shall NEVER perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."
So good to know that we have eternal life now, even if we die, we live on, not in our bodies, but in our soul and spirit, until the resurrection when our bodies will join with our soul and spirit once again and then be forever alive.
Christ's argument is: If your law calls judges gods, why should I be held guilty of blasphemy for saying that I am the Son of God?
As per the other argument trying to discredit the word "one" sounds like your argument is that one doesn't really mean one, because Jesus used it to describe believers being one. I don't see how being one in unity as Christ's body somehow means that all the Bible verses about Jesus being God and divine suddenly don't apply? The verse about the Father and Son being one is only one of MANY verses competing the picture. The Bible already says Jesus the Word is God so how can you disregard that?
God: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 KJV
You: Word was "NOT" God?
"Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also." John 8:19 KJV
Have you thought about how your belief reconciles with verses like this above?
Isaiah 7:14 -
Yes, Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us". People called Jesus "God". He's King of King and Lord of Lords. Alpha and Omega, first and last. Do you believe Jesus is Lord? I believe that is a requirement for even being a Christian. A Christ follower should know who Christ is.
1 John 5:7-8
John 10:30
John 8:19
Genesis 1:26
Genesis 11:6-7 (plural "us" which includes Jesus, as per John 1:1)
Philippians 2:5-8
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 1:3
Matthew 28:19
1 Peter 1:2
2 Corinthians 13:14
Deuteronomy 6:4
John 14:10
John 20:28
1 John 2:22-24
Matthew 1:23-25
Colossians 2:9
Acts 17:29
Romans 1:20
Isaiah 7:14
Hebrews 1:8
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 43:11
I am sorry you do not believe what God has said in scripture in the citations I gave you.
Is. 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and His redeemer the LORD of Hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is NO God."
vs. 8
"Fear not, neither be afraid; have I not told thee from that time, and have declared it? Is there a God beside me? yea, there is NO God, I know not any." And God does know all things, so we cannot be gods.
Is. 45:5
"I am the LORD, and there is NONE else, there is NO God beside me..."
vs. 18
"I.... am the LORD, there is NONE else."
vs. 21
"..there is NO God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is NONE beside me."
Is. 46:5
"To whom will you liken me, and make my equal, and compare me, that we may be like?"
vs. 9
'Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is NO else, I am God, and there is NONE like me."
In just Isaiah, God says over and over again that there is only one God in all of creation, and HE ALONE is this sole God. There are no other gods, no other for us to call gods because other gods do not exist in reality, only in the imaginations of one's minds and in the images we create or the men we idolize, even ourselves.
Earl, you can quote the few verses that speak of men being gods, such as Ps. 82:6 and Jesus reference to this verse in John 10:34 and the reference to Moses being "as" God to Pharoah in Exodus 7:1 all you want, but the meaning of these verses is that the judges and Moses were representing God before other men, not that they are actually gods in their nature because He has made it abundantly clear that He is the ONLY God that exists.
Earl, those of us who say that the view that we are gods is heresy say so on the basis of what I have explained about the verses you quote and the verses where God says He is the ONLY God. To profess belief that men are gods is heresy. It is usurping God as the sole God of all creation. It breaks the 1st commandment.
I have never said we are gods;
I QUOTED what GOD said:
Psalms 82:6
Isaiah 41:23
John 10:34
The scriptures are Christ's WORDS, not mine.
I'm sorry you don't believe what Christ says.
But Christ SAID, men would believe the words of other men, before they would believe his words, and his words WILL NOT return unto him VOID, but will accomplish that which I please.
Isaiah 55:11
God Bless YOU!
We have been this route before many times and many others on here have given you many Scriptures that repute your position that in actuality we are gods.
Psalm 82:6 is speaking of the judges appointed over Israel when they had possessed the land. God is judging these judges as being mere men, not gods. He is mocking them because they dealt corruptly with the people. If they truly were gods they would not have cheated widows and orphans, preferred the cause of the rich, profited from their position, nor been flippant towards God and His requirements of them to 'stand among the people in His place' (thus the term of calling them gods). God was not proclaiming that these judges were in fact gods, but that those who are appointed to judge others are to judge as if God were judging through them. Jesus refers to this passage after He declared that He was one with the Father ( John 10:30) and the leaders wanted to stone Him for making Himself God. He quotes this Psalm as a rebuttal, not to affirm that the judges were in actuality gods, but that, if the leaders accept that Scripture as true, why would they be offended if He calls Himself the Son of God and one with God. He was calling the leaders out on their double mindedness and lack of understanding of the Scriptures though they knew them backwards and forwards.
Earl, God has stated so many times that He alone is God and there are no other gods, even though man may call idols gods or men gods. Just because man may consider idols or men gods does not make them gods.
There is only one God. And He is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and no others. He has forbidden making any gods of our own, whether idols or persons.
Your preoccupation with being a god is concerning. Why not humbly accept that we are mere humans created to be humans forever, though we are adopted as children of God through Jesus, not by our own constitution or nature, but by the grace and wisdom of God.
Read Is. 44:6; 45:5; 46:9
Since it seems you responded to my post I will respond to you. I have never reported anyone on this site or advocated for anyone to be banned. If the administration determines that someone should not be allowed to post then that is their prerogative.
The veracity of whether Jesus is God or not is not a matter of how many people believe it is true or not. Biblical truth is not determined democratically by consensus of the majority or minority. True doctrine is determined by what Scripture says to be true.
Even though billions of Christians believe Jesus is God does not make it true.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....'
John 1:14
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us , full of grace and truth; we beheld his glory, as of the ONLY Son of the Father."
John 10:30 Jesus says,
"I and the Father are one"
Just in these few verses we have Scripture stating that Jesus is God and is that the Father and Son are one together, though distinct persons.
Later on in John 14:16-17, Jesus says that He will ask the Father to send the Spirit. Thus naming EACH Person in the One God.
I think that true doctrine is important and beneficial to believers and that false doctrine is corrupting to a believer. That is why I speak out concerinng doctrine that is opposed to revealed truth in Scripture, especially doctrine concerning the identity, character, nature and work of our Savior.
Jema, I respect that you do wish to ignore or pass over postings that do not agree with your viewpoint.
And I respect that you prefer to speak what you believe without having others speak in disagreement of what you state as your beliefs.
This is a discussion forum, primarily, and not simply a place for people to post their beliefs without expecting a response. But each of us engage on this forum as we see fit as we prayerfully consider what others post and seek the Lord's guidance in how or if we respond to a posting.
What does the Word of GOD say?
Re.11:4 - These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. (Whatsoever is more than these or is added comes of evil).
The two olive trees
are to produce oil for the two candlesticks.
They are the Old and the New Testaments-i.e. the Word of GOD-, the Word is GOD, understand? John 1:1
The two candlesticks
are two Churches: The Jewish Church - Hebrews 12:23; and Gentile Church: John 10:16
For example: Revelation 1:20 - ... the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches (of Asia).
Who will be in the scenary from now on or in this end of the time is Michael, a prince of the LORD sent by JESUS as the God of the earth (as Moses was sent as the God of Pharaoh), he appeared to John in the midst of the seven candlesticks as one like unto the Son of man. Now he will be in the midst of the two Churches -TWO CANDLESTICKS as above cited- and to the TWO OLIVE TREES above cited WILL BE(IS)given Power to shut heaven that it rain not in these days of THEIR prophecy: and have Power over waters (OVER PEOPLES, AND NATIONS, AND MULTITUDES OF ALL TONGUES-FOR HE THAT IS ABOVE IS ABOVE ALL- John 3:31-36) to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. The Word is GOD, self-executing, understand?
Be careful and get ready
This would include preaching against ALL sin; including pride and hypocricy of individuals and society at large.
The threat against all of Satan's carefully networked aspects of society are many. Those who proclaim Christ are an economic threat; so a genuine conversion that starts to affect this system will bring imprisonment; no doubt. We see this now with the Pro Life movement; and indeed anything that gains any momentum attempting to restore traditional values. This is by no means unique to one particular political party or members of the establishment. There is economic gain to wars; like it or not by powers that be; just as there is influence by caving into popular concepts today where businesses are willing to forego economic sanity to position themselves with the world as others pull the strings.
We present Christ today; sadly often as a God of our imagination. We may have a vacuum that only God can fill but some never will seek it; and we are ALL enemies of God before salvation. Bringing the church down to the world to fill pews is backwards; we should challenge those who would follow Christ with the requirements of being a disciple and warnings of dangers of falling away for those who would glibly make a confession without counting the cost. Looking at Christ makes it clear; with the exception of the 12 Disciples He never actively sought others; but would often weed out those not willing to forsake all for Him. He had no place to lay His head; let alone a fancy building to preach in. The Son of Man came not to be served ( Mark 10:45)